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The Future of Franchise Mode in MLB The Show 21 and Beyond

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MLB The Show 21

The Future of Franchise Mode in MLB The Show 21 and Beyond

We know we’re going to be getting some form of MLB The Show 21 franchise mode news today (editor’s note: oops, maybe not, Diamond Dynasty got the teaser today), so I have been thinking about franchise mode as a whole in baseball games through the years. There have been a lot of cool things that have come out of baseball franchise modes, some of which has been lost to time in some regards, and there’s still plenty more to do with the mode in the future.

Options that helped add depth and immersion like franchise relocation and stadium upgrades are things we have seen in the past. One title even offered future stadiums, an option that allowed me to play games with current Major League Baseball clubs in renderings of what their future ballparks might look like.

That game was none other than the old All-Star Baseball series by the now defunct Acclaim Studios. All-Star Baseball brought an awful lot of innovative and exciting options to the table, but future stadiums were the tops for me. It let me imagine baseball beyond the year that was on the box and where my favorite franchise might be heading.

EA also delivered one of the more innovative options in its MVP Baseball series, and that would be the ability to relocate your franchise. You could also improve and upgrade your current stadium, which had a real impact on actual funds and fan interest.

Obviously, other titles in the past brought something unique and different to the table as well, but my point in bringing up these two titles specifically is that both delivered something that I considered to be forward thinking in a way that allowed me to place focus on the current year of my franchise while casting an eye toward the future. To me, this is how a company creates ownership and keeps someone wanting to fire up a franchise to progress year to year.

This brings me to the point of all of this and what I want to see out of the future of the MLB the Show franchise from SDS.

MLB The Show 21 Franchise Mode — And Beyond

mlb the show 21 franchise mode

SDS has already delivered some game modes and features that do exactly what I am describing across the entirety of the game. When it comes specifically to franchise mode, community creations and year-to-year franchise saves (which sadly are out this year) have been boons for investing in your franchise over a longer term.

But even though SDS has provided some of the best components ever seen in a sports-based video game, it’s time to push further and go deeper. The inclusion of community involvement, both in terms of creation and input, has not been lost on the powers that be at the front of the table for SDS, but more can be done to keep the franchise at the forefront.

What I Want

It is easy to complain or voice an opinion to a developer and ask for more, but much like being in a relationship with a significant other, being very specific often helps. With that said, here is what I want and am hoping to see from the MLB The Show franchise starting this year and moving forward.

Stadium Creator

Although not high on the list for some, this is a huge desire for me. I would love to see SDS deliver a detailed stadium creator that easily allows us to either build sections and piece them together, or be able to select from a large library of pre-made assets that are considered interchangeable.

With a true stadium creator that allows close replications of current minor league stadiums or Major League Stadiums from the past that have since been replaced, it opens a world of possibilities. An entire ecosystem can be explored and played in with stadiums that mimic either the minor leagues or past stadiums, while also enhancing the appeal of old-school roster sets from the community.

In order for a stadium creator to have a real impact though, it must be detailed to the point that current minor league stadiums and historic stadiums can be re-created with some semblance of accuracy. In addition, stadiums need to be able to be imported and shared across modes.

Obviously, this type of idea creates a lot of room for error regarding the implementation of a stadium creator, both in form and function, so the approach must be well designed. If this idea isn’t fully fleshed out within a couple years to this level of detail, I’m not sure that a stadium creator for just Diamond Dynasty has true impact over the long haul.

Logo And Advertisement Creation

I often talk about the level of immersion in many of my reviews, and there is a reason for that — it’s important. I believe it’s especially important in simulation sports titles. SDS obviously made strides with new sponsorship inclusions in MLB The Show 20, with the addition of authentic sponsorships like Delta at Yankee Stadium, Citgo in Boston, and Wintrust in Chicago.

What I want to see is the ability to create sponsorship advertisements and logos in-game and apply them to both MLB and MiLB stadiums. I want to see a Coke bottle on one of the advertisement plaques that sits adjacent to the scoreboard in Coors Field, or let me create a Budweiser logo to sit above the scoreboard in Busch Stadium.

It becomes even more important when it comes to the minor league affiliates and can be done by simply having open ad-boards around the stadium where created ads can be placed. By giving the community this option, it allows content creators to place authentic ads that they are familiar with and helps create something resembling real life without SDS needing to spend resources on every minor league park.

coca cola att park

To be clear, I’m not expecting to be able to put the Coca-Cola bottle in left field at Oracle Park. This request simply relates to the advertisements that you would see on the outfield walls or things like the scoreboard in center field.

The one caveat to all of this is that I’m not sure if created logos for stadium inserts will/would be allowed to be created and shared on a console version due to legal issues. For example, in NBA 2K MyTeam, we can put ad boards in our created arenas, but it’s not so easy to do (unless you’re on PC) in the official arenas. Now, I could be absolutely wrong on this aspect as my expertise in this field is somewhat limited, but at the very least, it something we need to be prepared for if this option ever does become available to us as a community.

Fully Fleshed Out Minor League Affiliates and Systems

show 20 minor league rosters lewis

Obviously, with the addition of real minor league players, The Show has taken a huge step forward in creating a realistic world in terms of true organizational control. Also, the ability to now participate in key moments in helping mold the path of a team’s up and coming top prospects helps a lot — but we need more.

With the reduction of MiLB affiliations, it puts even more of an emphasis on each minor league squad and how it will be utilized now for the parent team. SDS needs a system that allows us to control all aspects of each level, including creating a Single A system that is more than a “dump and hide” system.

SDS needs a managerial and training option that lets us take control of real players from Single A and help determine their path in a more defined way. The game doesn’t recognize who the players are that are causing excitement in the front office in real life, at least by name, so we need a system that will allow us to do just that, but with some deviation and a built-in fault and failure percentage.

My personal take here is that if I could create an entire minor league system with accurate stadiums, rosters, uniforms, and advertisements, I would spend as much time controlling and playing the affiliates as I do with the big league team.

Franchise Customization

A lot of the community has been begging for and pleading with SDS to add more depth and realistic options to franchise mode in the MLB The Show series, and rightfully so. What I want is a bit different though.

I want the ability to create different layouts and structures for my franchise. Give me the option to create different divisions with a different number of teams to play in each division. Let me control what type of playoff system there is and let me decide on what teams play where in franchise mode.

If I want to re-create seasons from the past, it’s very hard to do when I am relegated to using the current structure with the current stadium. Once again, it kills the immersion, and interest is lost a lot quicker than if I had the ability to create a league that had two divisions with six teams, and the Pirates were playing in Forbes Field and Philles were playing in Shibe Park or Connie Mack Stadium.

I would also like to point out that with full franchise and league parameter controls, fans of NCAA baseball could also re-create a scaled-down version of an NCAA league with a round-robin playoff system that would mimic what we see in real life.

Of course, the system that would allow this would need to be created by SDS, but once it is done and fully fleshed out, the control and creation aspects all fall back on, you guessed it, the community.

What I Expect In MLB The Show 21 Franchise Mode

mlb the show 21 franchise mode expectations

To some, my ideas might seem unrealistic. However, I would say there are games out there right now that offer much of what I described already, but they are considered simulation experiences.

This is all conjecture, but what I expect to see with stadiums, assuming the leak of the stadium creator is real, is a basic generic creator that will only allow the reshaping of an outfield wall while choosing the prevalent colors seen within the stadium interior.

At best, I think we also get to pick out the shape of the exterior stadium to represent maybe some of the circular cookie-cutter stadiums that were prevalent in the ’70s and ’80s, or choosing between a dome or open-air stadium.

I do expect to see a somewhat deeper experience in regards to how the MiLB is handled, as we have seen video evidence of how this will unfold in MLB the Show 21 already, but it will not be nearly as deep as I’m hoping for quite yet.

As far as franchise customization and an in-house logo and ad creator that can be laced inside each stadium, I do not believe there is a chance we see anything like that this year.

What The Future Holds For Franchise Mode?

The truth is SDS has been a leader and a follower when it comes to new content being included in each yearly release, and that is a positive. It reminds me of the days when multiple titles were released, and each company “borrowed” to help form the best experience it could within its title’s parameters.

Based on what I know, and the series now being available to folks on multiple platforms, I believe Sony has a very detailed plan for the future of The Show series. I do believe this plan includes a singular ecosystem that covers every mode and makes them almost interchangeable.

There are signs of this already as you’ll now be able to use your Road to the Show character across multiple modes, and I only expect this to continue. After all, we have seen something like this already in the NBA 2K franchise, and I expect the roadmap that 2K walked down to be a similar path that SDS will take.

By the time MLB The Show 25 rolls out, I hope creators will be able to create completely different eras of baseball, package together rosters, uniforms, stadiums, franchise layouts, and schedules, and let users download them and play them in their entirety the way they see fit.

A system like that would truly benefit both sides. Once this infrastructure is created by SDS, it allows the developers to simply tweak and add options in future iterations, and allows the community do the work of all the creations.

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  1. Sorry but I think that people expecting great things out of Franchise Mode in the future could very well be in for a let down.
    I think it will end up being a horrible blend of MTO and Franchise Mode with, I am sure, plenty of monetization elements added.
    I hope that I am wrong. But this is the trend across gaming as a whole, so why would it be any different with The Show? I mean even single player games have so much crappy micro transactions they are starting to ruin games.
    Thanks for this! It is very sad to see the state of franchise mode in this game nowadays. Yet I still play many seasons in each iteration because I love the gameplay and game so much.
    I will with 1000% percent confidence say that MLB The Show has the WORST franchise mode of all the major sports games. I have played them all, and it is just obvious to me for awhile now.
    Baseball is the best sport to have a legit owner mode with financial responsibilities, an expansion mode with a full on team/stadium creator. This is stuff we had 15+ years ago. I do not understand anyone who can defend the state of the mode over the last 5+ years.
    One thing I would like to see in Franchise is the ability to steer growth and development between hitting and fielding. Currently with the potential system players presumably develope across the board. However, in truth some develope more towards offense and some towards better defensive play. It is the rare player who developes both ways equally.
    Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app
    How about being able to go look back each season at what a minor league players stats were in the minors the year before? Would love to see that so we can keep track of how they are trending.
    The Kid 24
    We're getting Franchise news today?

    Doubt it, the Franchise teaser video was supposed to be Thursday and they never posted it. Today (on schedule) they posted Diamond Dynasty.
    orioles0615
    Doubt it, the Franchise teaser video was supposed to be Thursday and they never posted it. Today (on schedule) they posted Diamond Dynasty.

    Yep I saw that.... SMFH
    I just said about Franchise news because the article published today says about getting Franchise news.
    It's interesting that we all want growth and improvements to franchise mode, but how different the things we actually want are.  These changes would probably cause me to pass on '21, but at the same time, are being spoken about like it might be too much to ask.  The fleshing out of the minor league is the only thing listed I'd even find motivating.   Looking forward to getting some concrete news.
    I've skipped The Show since 2017, and honestly, only play the game fo Franchise Mode which I've been playing exclusively since The Show 06.
    Gameplay improvements and whatever like that are always welcome, but at the end of the day its the content that keeps me playing, not the mechanics.
    It'll be interesting to see what they did with the mode this year, but I'm no longer holding my breath. I feel almost abandoned as a player.
    Bullit
    Sorry but I think that people expecting great things out of Franchise Mode in the future could very well be in for a let down.
    I think it will end up being a horrible blend of MTO and Franchise Mode with, I am sure, plenty of monetization elements added.

    I've said it many times;
    If monetization is the only way to get the things we want (jerseys, managers, stadiums, logos..) then I'll pay.
    I've got my Visa card in hand, ready to swipe for roster customization tools. $50.. $100.. $150... name your price, SDS!!!
    I'm wondering if the video for last week was pulled due to high expectations of the community?
    Reading the social media from MLB Show asking what questions people have its really clear people have high expectations and are demanding things like 3 team trades, more trade spots, improved ai, relocation etc.
    I'm just curious if after reading the sky high expectations the community has after hearing of a franchise "revamp " that they paused the video for now?
    Obviously pure speculation, but the other videos have been in line with order they posted for info, with DD picking right up. They mentioned new videos every Tuesday and Thursday in February....
    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
    Madden08PCgmr
    I've said it many times;
    If monetization is the only way to get the things we want (jerseys, managers, stadiums, logos..) then I'll pay.
    I've got my Visa card in hand, ready to swipe for roster customization tools. $50.. $100.. $150... name your price, SDS!!!

    There are simply not enough of “us” to make the ends justify the means for what you want.
    And I certainly do not want to have to pay for things that should be in the only console simulation MLB baseball game.
    I am quite content with what I have on MLB 16-20 on the PS4 Pro. Anything more for me moving forward will be gravy. And my expectations are so very low now. The direction is quite clear.
    Diamond Dynasty is the absolute priority. Online competitive play is the absolute priority. That is where most of the resources and development are going...and have ben going for a little while.
    Someone mentioned MLB The Show has the worst franchise mode of the major sports. I will disagree.
    Maddens owner mode stinks.
    NBA 2K customization is top of the line.....but it is riddled with bugs. I mean game breaking bugs where playing long term franchises are virtually impossible.
    I think NHL has done a great job with expansion mode and scouting. But has a lot to be desired as far as presentation and their franchise feeling alive.
    MLB’s Franchise mode in it’s current state needs work. Make no mistake. But I have had more than enough tools to have a fantastic franchise experience as a play every pitch every inning player.
    Y2Y saves was what gave this game the true edge. And content that has been created over the PS4 era has been second to none.
    I would love a customization suite that Chase talks about......but it is useless for me if we are losing all the content that has been labored over the last 6 years. Such a shame. I was really looking forward to the content carrying on.
    This roster community will be starting from ground zero. And before someone chimes in and say’s “not confirmed” get real, realize that Y2Y was the way we moved things. It’s gone. And that roster import feature will be to. The silence on that question which has been asked multiple times.....speaks loudly.
    Now....if the removal of Y2Y allows all these great “updates” we have all been clamoring for, for franchise mode and creation. I am all for it.
    But I know better.
    This is going down a path of cross play, cross gen this, online competitive that.
    Sorry to be negative Nancy.....just being real and honest. I am not going to sit here and act like I cannot see what is going on.
    Thank god we have that library of MLB 16-20 to play for years and years to come. So I am good.
    Hoping for the best for the future of this franchise though. Make no mistake. I hope I have to eat a lot of crow for not believing!!!
    But I doubt it.
    Gameplay wise....I am sure they will pump out a great game. They always do. And maybe one day in a few years.....I will want to start over if it is that worth it too.
    Peace.
    tabarnes19
    I'm wondering if the video for last week was pulled due to high expectations of the community?
    Reading the social media from MLB Show asking what questions people have its really clear people have high expectations and are demanding things like 3 team trades, more trade spots, improved ai, relocation etc.
    I'm just curious if after reading the sky high expectations the community has after hearing of a franchise "revamp " that they paused the video for now?
    Obviously pure speculation, but the other videos have been in line with order they posted for info, with DD picking right up. They mentioned new videos every Tuesday and Thursday in February....
    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

    My initial thought was they were going to re shoot it because Tatis just got his new contract. But who knows. I am so glad OOTP exists, each year The Show for me just keeps getting more boring and I feel like I am done with it after a month.
    As Armor said, NHL has made some great strides over the last couple of years. Although hockey is only like my 4th favorite sport to watch, the NhL series is the sports title I most look forward to now each year. Although gameplay is not on par with the show it still provides much more things to do and manage when I am not on the ice. Gameplay can only take you so far, otherwise it just feels like I am playing a bunch of play now games. I need to feel like their are story lines playing out off the field to keep my interest in the gameplay going. Otherwise what does it matter if I just hit two home runs in a game with Mike Trout.
    Also like Armor said, my expectations are very low. Lower than they have ever been for sports gaming as a whole. In the fortnite/ gta V era online modes are king. Why wouldn’t they be. No one is going to turn away millions of 14-25 year olds willing to hand over their or their parents hard earned cash. It is what it is. I am not denying the devs passion for this title, but at the end of the day it is still a profession. I think if the suits at Sony could just completely eliminate the resources and time put in to franchise mode completely they probably would. There really is no milk to be had from that bull so to speak.
    Even when the franchise news drops I am not expecting anything big or ground breaking. I think it’s also very telling we did not get a video last week. Call me cynical but experience tells me that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... you know the rest:
    Armor and Sword
    Thank god we have that library of MLB 16-20 to play for years and years to come. So I am good.

    I'll be good with that, once we get the roster tools we need. Thats all I really care about.
    I can't go on building rosters the way we are. Not in comparison to the tools available with the other sports titles.
    Having to make a game run on old hardware has to be holding back some features. If you just want a fancy coat of paint and fluff to give the illusion of new then they can continue as is. If you want smarter AI and other things that need processing speed then you need a system that can handle it. Until PS4 and the Xbox (whatever it was called prior to now gen) become just legacy editions we’ll never get a revamped franchise. That's if they even decide to put the effort into franchise to begin with. So hopefully in 2 or 3 years if the motivation from the people in charge deem it acceptable we'll finally get a vastly improved franchise. Until then the under the hood things will lag behind and remain mostly the same.
    Armor and Sword
    There are simply not enough of “us” to make the ends justify the means for what you want.
    And I certainly do not want to have to pay for things that should be in the only console simulation MLB baseball game.
    I am quite content with what I have on MLB 16-20 on the PS4 Pro. Anything more for me moving forward will be gravy. And my expectations are so very low now. The direction is quite clear.
    Diamond Dynasty is the absolute priority. Online competitive play is the absolute priority. That is where most of the resources and development are going...and have ben going for a little while.
    Someone mentioned MLB The Show has the worst franchise mode of the major sports. I will disagree.
    Maddens owner mode stinks.
    NBA 2K customization is top of the line.....but it is riddled with bugs. I mean game breaking bugs where playing long term franchises are virtually impossible.
    I think NHL has done a great job with expansion mode and scouting. But has a lot to be desired as far as presentation and their franchise feeling alive.
    MLB’s Franchise mode in it’s current state needs work. Make no mistake. But I have had more than enough tools to have a fantastic franchise experience as a play every pitch every inning player.
    Y2Y saves was what gave this game the true edge. And content that has been created over the PS4 era has been second to none.
    I would love a customization suite that Chase talks about......but it is useless for me if we are losing all the content that has been labored over the last 6 years. Such a shame. I was really looking forward to the content carrying on.
    This roster community will be starting from ground zero. And before someone chimes in and say’s “not confirmed” get real, realize that Y2Y was the way we moved things. It’s gone. And that roster import feature will be to. The silence on that question which has been asked multiple times.....speaks loudly.
    Now....if the removal of Y2Y allows all these great “updates” we have all been clamoring for, for franchise mode and creation. I am all for it.
    But I know better.
    This is going down a path of cross play, cross gen this, online competitive that.
    Sorry to be negative Nancy.....just being real and honest. I am not going to sit here and act like I cannot see what is going on.
    Thank god we have that library of MLB 16-20 to play for years and years to come. So I am good.
    Hoping for the best for the future of this franchise though. Make no mistake. I hope I have to eat a lot of crow for not believing!!!
    But I doubt it.
    Gameplay wise....I am sure they will pump out a great game. They always do. And maybe one day in a few years.....I will want to start over if it is that worth it too.
    Peace.

    The Show is worse than madden. It's not close imo.
    I play 6+ seasons a year in a show cycle (40ish games a season) and I am currently in 2037 in a Madden franchise with a friend. So I play both religiously.
    In madden there are not constant workarounds I have to deal with. Upping prospect ratings every year or else they will never debut, consistently checking CPU rosters to make sure they are working properly. I have to dip my hands in many different functions of the mode. In Madden I can trust the game to work as intended.
    The CPU uses like 2 relievers all year. There are so many issues in the Show's franchise mode. The actual game is 10000% better than madden. But I honestly do not see where people think The Show actually has a more in-depth mode, or where they think its "better".
    For those that actually get semi-deep into the Show they know there are many issues the deeper you get into a franchise.
    Madden is not great. But has quite a bit more in terms of franchise than MLB in nearly every facet of the game.
    What I find interesting is that, sure, fantasy team modes based on card collecting/transactions are obviously very popular, but...look at all these "simulator" games that are out there. Farming Simulator, Truck Simulator, that Jurassic Park game where you try to build a successful park...what this tells us is that people also really enjoy games in which they have to manage various administrative tasks as part of a broader program or goal. I know when I lived in the UK for a year, Football Manager seemed almost as popular as FIFA/PES.
    I mean...c'mon Show...just try to make Franchise mode more engrossing and see what happens. I think if you build it, we will come.
    Not saying franchise players should not be asking for a better franchise mode. But the MLB The Show series will never come remotely close to what you can do in the "Out of the Park" baseball game. If people want a deep franchise baseball simulation, OOTP can do it now. You just need to give up on all the fancy in game, game play graphics the MLB The Show game gives us.
    All I truly want in Franchise Mode, is the ability to change the amount of games and innings you play in a season like we use to be able to do in Season Mode. I don’t like to simulate games but I can never dedicate the amount of time it requires to play a full 162 - 9 innings. Since the Show 17, the most games I’ve been able to finish in Franchise is about 40 games.
    I don’t understand why they’ve never been able to add this tiny addition since they removed season mode.
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    My993C2
    Not saying franchise players should not be asking for a better franchise mode. But the MLB The Show series will never come remotely close to what you can do in the "Out of the Park" baseball game. If people want a deep franchise baseball simulation, OOTP can do it now. You just need to give up on all the fancy in game, game play graphics the MLB The Show game gives us.

    I agree with that, overwhelmingly... but I don't own a 4k tv to stare at graphics from World Series Baseball '95.
    Logo creation already exists in the game. If you checkout farmers logo you will find the one I created with the existing art program in the game. It's a windmill with the sun in the background. It's an easy program to work with once you figure out how to use it.
    Carry over saves is one of very few make or break options in the game. It's not a franchise if you can't carry it over. They need to provide a detailed explanation of why the eliminated carry over and whether it will return.
    I'd hate to throw away my current carry over but would probably do so if they guaranteed carry over saves would resume in mlbts22. Anything short of that and I'll have to pass on mlbts21 which will be first time I haven't bought the game on day one.
    Just rotate the inner league schedule. The reluctance to address this simple issue is mind boggling. Put the same options in MOM as the options in any other mode. Right now there are no rain delays or plyer challenges. Stop having guys hit the damn ball to the wall unless its Fenway and runners stop for a single. A much better AI for automated base running is needed, Fix the bullpen usage where CPU relievers don't have 100 appearances at end of the year. Put more injuries in the game. To many day to day. Very few players especially pitchers make it through all their starts. Its amazing how 15 years ago we had options like Build a park, Rain Delays, Expansion but here we are with this generation and the experts cant figure out or care about little stuff like rotating a damn schedule
    My993C2
    Not saying franchise players should not be asking for a better franchise mode. But the MLB The Show series will never come remotely close to what you can do in the "Out of the Park" baseball game. If people want a deep franchise baseball simulation, OOTP can do it now. You just need to give up on all the fancy in game, game play graphics the MLB The Show game gives us.

    Probably not for long. OOTP has been trending towards microtransactions with the perfect team mode the last couple years and they just got bought out by a Korean mobile game company. It's not looking good for simulation sports fans in general sadly.
    It’s clear that DD earns SDS more money than franchise does. The player base is larger and the microtransactions is just money straight into their pocket.
    It’s sad for the Franchise Players here but that is just the nature of business.
    Now, SDS should also be able to recognize that Franchise still has loyal users and I’m sure a lot of players at least dabble into the mode. If they were to focus energy and resources into the mode, it could reach great heights. Maybe with the introduction to Xbox, the resources will grow exponentially to allow them to do so.
    I have a few wishes for franchise that would greatly improve it in my opinion,
    Rotating inter league schedule, revamped Scouting that brings young players up to MLB stardom quicker (you see more and more 20-21 year olds making an impact in the majors today than you did 10 years ago), Commissioner options that allow you to change rules and realign divisions/playoff structures throughout the life of the franchise.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    My993C2
    Not saying franchise players should not be asking for a better franchise mode. But the MLB The Show series will never come remotely close to what you can do in the "Out of the Park" baseball game. If people want a deep franchise baseball simulation, OOTP can do it now. You just need to give up on all the fancy in game, game play graphics the MLB The Show game gives us.

    And actually playing. I am content with what I got right now.
    And OOTPB is a tremendous simulation no doubt. They do an amazing job for that type of game.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Considering how little new stuff was even shown in the Rtts or DD videos, the fact they couldn't or wouldn't bother making a franchise one is pretty damning. They don't care, they don't really even pretend to any more.
    When they had two guys spend the entire year dedicated to franchise improvements, who instead decided to not improve franchise at all, but instead create Mto, that really should have been the final sign that franchise was pretty much dead to them
    Our -- my bad -- about the (no) franchise mode news today. A bunch of content creators were very confident it would pop up today (in part due to the delay last week so thought everything else would push back a bit).
    I'll update the intro since I re-wrote it for Bob's piece.
    I would like OTTP baseball and The Show to somehow combine.* *That would be the ultimate baseball experience.* *Give me all the things in OTTP and let me play out those games in MLB The Show.*
    As someone mentioned, one of the problems is that we all want different things from franchise. While I think that the ability to relocate and a stadium builder would be neat features, and these would be enough for some, they aren't features that would get me to buy the game again for the first time in years.
    For myself better trade logic, scouting and development are all much more important features of a deep franchise.
    Unfortunately, I think that the former is a much easier lever to pull for them. An easy "win" to show that they finally threw a bone to franchise.
    I'll hope to be pleasantly surprised when franchise info does get released, but I've just come to accept that sds isn't making a baseball game for me anymore.
    Sent from my S10 using Operation Sports mobile app
    You know what franchise really needs to do is get rid of the XP pop up at the end of an inning. I can guarantee even if xp was connected to a franchise I don't need that info in that moment.
    jrnlgrn
    You know what franchise really needs to do is get rid of the XP pop up at the end of an inning. I can guarantee even if xp was connected to a franchise I don't need that info in that moment.

    YES PLEASE! I figured I wasn’t the only one that this bothered.
    Longtime offline franchise guy who has hated on DD repeatedly in OS.
    In the past two months, though, I worked DD offline and have to say that it's a far better mode than I ever thought it would be and MUCH LESS PREDATORY than I assumed. It's still grindy and some of the stuff is locked behind online tasks, but overall it's not anywhere close to being what 2K and EA are doing.
    So, if franchise this year is the same unimpressive stuff -- and I assume it will be -- I think I'll latch on to DD from the start, especially since ALL cards will be available to offline players (unlike this year).
    Maybe I should apologize to SDS for blasting DD repeatedly since it really is an impressive mode, but NAH. I'm convinced that the love it gets is one of the main reasons why franchise is stuck in the mud.
    Spoiler alert were not getting create a stadium I feel leak that post out before they even tried to
    put in the game lol. All I want is Matty V to say the full name of the team I created with the team creator they couldn’t even get that right smh
    Hearing the full team name of my team creator teams has also been a focus of mine seems like a small thing but for me to hear
    "Milwaukee Braves "
    "Brooklyn Dodgers "
    "Kansas City Athletics "
    "Washington Senators "
    "St. Louis Browns "
    So cool and shouldn't be that difficult to accomplish.
    Sent from my SM-G970U using Operation Sports mobile app
    KSUowls
    As someone mentioned, one of the problems is that we all want different things from franchise. While I think that the ability to relocate and a stadium builder would be neat features, and these would be enough for some, they aren't features that would get me to buy the game again for the first time in years.
    For myself better trade logic, scouting and development are all much more important features of a deep franchise.
    Unfortunately, I think that the former is a much easier lever to pull for them. An easy "win" to show that they finally threw a bone to franchise.
    I'll hope to be pleasantly surprised when franchise info does get released, but I've just come to accept that sds isn't making a baseball game for me anymore.
    Sent from my S10 using Operation Sports mobile app

    I think the main issue is it starts with expanding rosters beyond 90 players and a point brought up I saw once, limiting the amount of A potential players. I think both of these drives progression and CPU logic. We will never be able to have things like custom draft classes, international FA's etc without that better logic. They also need more historical data and better stat tracking.
    I will never understand the push for expansion teams and rotating schedules. Yea they would be nice at first but their welcome would be worn out quick when the core of the game mode is still broken.
    orioles0615
    I think the main issue is it starts with expanding rosters beyond 90 players and a point brought up I saw once, limiting the amount of A potential players. I think both of these drives progression and CPU logic. We will never be able to have things like custom draft classes, international FA's etc without that better logic. They also need more historical data and better stat tracking.
    I will never understand the push for expansion teams and rotating schedules. Yea they would be nice at first but their welcome would be worn out quick when the core of the game mode is still broken.

    This.
    ---------
    In order for us to get cool additions, roster logic has to be reworked. They need to start with roster size and give us 26 man through A plus 15 extra rookie level slots or something similar. I would say 120 man would be ideal. This will fix a lot in itself.
    I will be honest here, I don't think we need features like create a stadium, franchise customization, rotating inner league schedules, and league expansion until roster logic is fixed.
    They need to improve scouting, improve draft classes, fix progression and regression, and CPU roster logic to start. These should be the first fixes to franchise and I think they honestly should have been first before we got the rebranding option. While it is a cool feature and a back of the box feature, it doesn't fix franchise.
    I want the MLB series to continue to succeed. More success means more revenue and a better game all around but until they improve what I listed above and give us back y2y, I have to stick with MLB 19 and 20.
    orioles0615
    I think the main issue is it starts with expanding rosters beyond 90 players and a point brought up I saw once, limiting the amount of A potential players. I think both of these drives progression and CPU logic. We will never be able to have things like custom draft classes, international FA's etc without that better logic. They also need more historical data and better stat tracking.
    I will never understand the push for expansion teams and rotating schedules. Yea they would be nice at first but their welcome would be worn out quick when the core of the game mode is still broken.

    This.
    My biggest want is expanded rosters, big AI logic improvements (believe me I would love to not have to do 30 team control to keep things balanced and fix cpu lineups which is often BTW).
    Expanded historical stat tracking for all minor league players. This is critical for managing your farm system and future of your ball club!!!
    We did not really get any of this at all on the move to PS4 (we did get some logic tuning but nothing that ever made me say...wow the CPU is really doing a great job). What we got were paint features and half baked features:
    Player morale - never built upon
    Player quirks - I like them but they never kept refining them
    Phases - awful addition in hindsight as it took away the great daily match up screen and recap screen to look around the league in conjunction with the radio show. The removal of that screen is huge. Going back and playing 16 and 17 (17 was the last version with it and season mode) it really helped you stay in touch with the entire league on a day to day basis. Now, that is buried out of view in the Calendar screen and is not in the least bit intuitive and you can’t scroll through each game, see the winning and losing pitcher and see the next days match ups or who’s hot and who’s not.
    Awful design decision.
    Phases was implemented to hand hold and “sim to”. Again the sign of things to come as season mode was removed and all future franchise resources have been poured into MTO which is a mode that gathers dust for me personally.
    And of course this year we had the removal of Y2Y.
    Stadium builder? I realize people have been pining for that and expansion mode......but the core needs of the mode itself for a lot of us who truly play it deep and play every game are more important to us.
    Rotating inter-league schedules....I still to this day never understood why this could never be implemented. That boggles my mind.
    On the bright side we got a great playing game of baseball and I am very thankful for that and I have been able to really enjoy franchise mode despite it’s short comings. Y2Y was a godsend feature and again it is a shame it was removed. But I am incredibly skeptical on the reasons some people want to believe around here. IMO it was not for franchise. It was for cross gen play.
    Just imagine what will happen if we find out we still have 90 man rosters and the same exact ratings for players.....lol yeah get ready.
    So yes the big problem is priorities everyone has different wants.
    And the other major problem is SDS’s resource priorities for franchise mode and the overall game itself are clearly in my view going in a direction I am not feeling. Let’s face it.....we are not the primary demographic. So I get it.
    Sucks but that is the cold hard reality. And there is no sugar coating it.
    Two words:
    Battle Pass
    Nuff said.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Agreed with both the above.
    My personal number one priority is expanding the rosters so that roster logic can be re-done, which is sorely needed especially for those who intend to play long term franchises. IMO, roster logic has gotten better by the AI, but it can only be so good given the limited space.
    Rotating schedules, expansion, create a stadium and all are cool, but IMO lose their appeal when the meat and potatoes of the mode is lacking. I hope that all of these, and other community requests are fulfilled, I just selfishly hope they come after roster expansion.
    The other thing I'm desperately hoping for is managers to be more than just name and "attribute" influencers. Separate managers based on approach to game (hit and run, bullpen management, etc..) This would help separate teams strategy's from one another instead of all other 29 teams taking a cookie cutter approach to managing the game.
    Armor and Sword
    This.
    We did not really get any of this at all on the move to PS4 (we did get some logic tuning but nothing that ever made me say...wow the CPU is really doing a great job). What we got were paint features and half baked features:
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    The sad thing is I remember people kept saying Franchise mode will get a total makeover once the game is on PS4. And for years people kept saying this. I honestly do not trust SDS to do anything with the mode and to be honest their improvements to the game in general over the years have been lack luster besides a few tweaks to game play.
    orioles0615
    The sad thing is I remember people kept saying Franchise mode will get a total makeover once the game is on PS4. And for years people kept saying this. I honestly do not trust SDS to do anything with the mode and to be honest their improvements to the game in general over the years have been lack luster besides a few tweaks to game play.

    The gameplay and Y2Y has truly kept me going. It is no secret how much I love this game and how it replicates baseball incredibly well on the console. Hands down the greatest sports console game I have ever played 11 years running.
    And I have little doubt MLB 21 will feature outstanding gameplay.
    But yes....the lack of under the hood updates (AI logic and game management) and meaningful expansion of scouting is something I thought would happen on the PS4.
    On the bright side the presentation (Sounds of the Show, real speed instant replay, improvements to dynamic color commentary within franchise, score bugs and in game OSD’s, presentation themes on 18,19 but removal of one on 20 was not welcomed lol, custom team option introduced) was improved on PS4.
    Another overlooked awesome upgrade (especially on 20) was the crazy good audio. Really top notch. And the crack of a perfectly barreled up baseball on 20 to this day never gets old.
    There have been a ton of positives that allow me to continue to love playing many different iterations of this game (16-20). And the roster community has given us the gift that keeps on giving and keeps the replay value of this game at the top of the sports gaming food chain.
    So plenty of positives.
    Lets continue to hope for the best on the new consoles. That is really all we can do. And in my case, my decision is to stick with what we have. I am happy and fat with all the content. If I see "gotta have it improvements” in the future (and I do not expect them for awhile to be honest) to franchise mode then I can think about "starting over”. Another huge factor for me is how active will the classic roster community be on the new console (PS5 in particular). If they are super active and gameplay and franchise mode warrant a fresh start....of course I will do it at some point.
    I love playing baseball games, in particular The Show (and Super Mega 3 is in my crosshairs here in the next month as I have played 1 and 2 and love em).
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    My993C2
    Not saying franchise players should not be asking for a better franchise mode. But the MLB The Show series will never come remotely close to what you can do in the "Out of the Park" baseball game. If people want a deep franchise baseball simulation, OOTP can do it now. You just need to give up on all the fancy in game, game play graphics the MLB The Show game gives us.
    I played a season in last year's Show release, but OOTP has basically replaced The Show for me at this point because of how little improvement franchise gets annually. The gameplay is and has been in a good enough place for me for years. The franchise mode has not been.
    I need the CPU to actually think and make moves proactively and reactively. I need it to challenge me from a GM standpoint. I need storylines to be all across the league from pennant races to locker room issues. OOTP gives me that and a host of options to tune it to my liking. The only thing The Show offers me that OOTP doesn't is the ability to control my players completely. I value the rest of the franchise experience so much that the gameplay SDS offers me is not enough.
    The sad thing is that so many here and elsewhere believe that OOTP has some kind of technical advantage for being a "simulator" experience that it's easier to build its franchise mode. I can tell you that that is simply not true. The franchise mode in The Show is still a text based system built around graphical interfaces. Tinkering with trade logic in The Show vs OOTP is a relatively similar process. The Show having gameplay on the field does not make it any more difficult to add to their franchise mode features or to revamp AI logic. They simply choose to not allocate the resources to that.
    The only advantage OOTP has is that it doesn't have to have a team full of programmers that work on the gameplay as much. Now that the game has some decent 3D action, there is work done on the gameplay, but it obviously doesn't compare to the less scripted controlled gameplay in The Show.
    The point is that a franchise mode in either game is still a menu and text based mode that can be built and tinkered with in similar manners. Creating a more in depth scouting system for either game takes similar work. Creating a simple roster projection screen in either game takes similar work. It is not magically harder in The Show because you have an option to actually play the games out.
    The only area where it becomes more difficult for The Show is if ratings are introduced into the picture and then the gameplay team has to work on making those ratings play out properly in a 3D environment. However, creating scheduling logic that rotates interleague games, having a robust trade logic system in place, and all of the off field actual franchise features are not magically harder for SDS to add to the game. It is a simple resource allocation choice.
    Look at NBA 2k these days. It is the only franchise mode that rivals the text sims and it is solely because 2k made the choice to build their game that way. They didn't perform any voodoo black magic that allows them an ability other games like Madden or The Show don't have in adding to their franchise mode. They simply built their games with the choice to have a deep and expansive franchise mode.
    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    I just wanted them to fine tune some things. I loved MLB 20 this year. To me as as a MoM guy it was the most fun I have had since MLB 16.
    Bullpen usage really needs an overhaul. I had relivers going 130 games this year. LR going 5 or 6 innings in close games. Auto Baserunning this year was really REALLY bad. If they just fine tuned these I would be really happy.
    If they added some type of manager creator I would be beyond thrilled.
    canes21
    I played a season in last year's Show release, but OOTP has basically replaced The Show for me at this point because of how little improvement franchise gets annually. The gameplay is and has been in a good enough place for me for years. The franchise mode has not been.
    I need the CPU to actually think and make moves proactively and reactively. I need it to challenge me from a GM standpoint. I need storylines to be all across the league from pennant races to locker room issues. OOTP gives me that and a host of options to tune it to my liking. The only thing The Show offers me that OOTP doesn't is the ability to control my players completely. I value the rest of the franchise experience so much that the gameplay SDS offers me is not enough.
    The sad thing is that so many here and elsewhere believe that OOTP has some kind of technical advantage for being a "simulator" experience that it's easier to build its franchise mode. I can tell you that that is simply not true. The franchise mode in The Show is still a text based system built around graphical interfaces. Tinkering with trade logic in The Show vs OOTP is a relatively similar process. The Show having gameplay on the field does not make it any more difficult to add to their franchise mode features or to revamp AI logic. They simply choose to not allocate the resources to that.
    The only advantage OOTP has is that it doesn't have to have a team full of programmers that work on the gameplay as much. Now that the game has some decent 3D action, there is work done on the gameplay, but it obviously doesn't compare to the less scripted controlled gameplay in The Show.
    The point is that a franchise mode in either game is still a menu and text based mode that can be built and tinkered with in similar manners. Creating a more in depth scouting system for either game takes similar work. Creating a simple roster projection screen in either game takes similar work. It is not magically harder in The Show because you have an option to actually play the games out.
    The only area where it becomes more difficult for The Show is if ratings are introduced into the picture and then the gameplay team has to work on making those ratings play out properly in a 3D environment. However, creating scheduling logic that rotates interleague games, having a robust trade logic system in place, and all of the off field actual franchise features are not magically harder for SDS to add to the game. It is a simple resource allocation choice.
    Look at NBA 2k these days. It is the only franchise mode that rivals the text sims and it is solely because 2k made the choice to build their game that way. They didn't perform any voodoo black magic that allows them an ability other games like Madden or The Show don't have in adding to their franchise mode. They simply built their games with the choice to have a deep and expansive franchise mode.
    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

    I am all for this. While OOTP has so many more options , I still feel like It needed a ton more work when it came to actual game "logic". So maybe some of these things aren't as easy as we thin.
    Jolly Roger
    What I find interesting is that, sure, fantasy team modes based on card collecting/transactions are obviously very popular, but...look at all these "simulator" games that are out there. Farming Simulator, Truck Simulator, that Jurassic Park game where you try to build a successful park...what this tells us is that people also really enjoy games in which they have to manage various administrative tasks as part of a broader program or goal. I know when I lived in the UK for a year, Football Manager seemed almost as popular as FIFA/PES.
    I mean...c'mon Show...just try to make Franchise mode more engrossing and see what happens. I think if you build it, we will come.
    Diamond Dynasty is very unrealistic. I don't know why it is so popular? Same goes for any other sports game.
    Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
    hitman23
    Diamond Dynasty is very unrealistic. I don't know why it is so popular? Same goes for any other sports game.
    Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
    Rewards for playing the game, competitive online play (which isn't all that realistic but for some it is more entertaining than playing games vs the computer), building a team with a variety of historical and current MLB players. It's not my favorite mode but I understand why people like it.
    Sent from my SM-G930VL using Operation Sports mobile app
    A quick glance at the response to SDS for franchise questions shows there’s still a massive appetite for the mode. The idea there isn’t is “fake news”. Developers need to stop blaming gamers for not playing it (which they do by proxy if not via their own mouths) and be honest, they prefer to gouge more cash from their already paying customers than offer a deeper franchise.
    Armor and Sword
    And the other major problem is SDS’s resource priorities for franchise mode and the overall game itself are clearly in my view going in a direction I am not feeling. Let’s face it.....we are not the primary demographic. So I get it.
    Sucks but that is the cold hard reality. And there is no sugar coating it.
    Two words:
    Battle Pass
    Nuff said.

    I agree with your general franchise points so I have nothing to add there, but wanted to point out that "Battle Pass" in regards to The Show is an OS headline thing. It's not anything SDS has said, promoted, or described in any way, shape, or form.
    I'm not even sure it's used correctly by the author to be honest with you, but I don't play games that have Battle Passes so I can't be sure.
    SmashMan
    I agree with your general franchise points so I have nothing to add there, but wanted to point out that "Battle Pass" in regards to The Show is an OS headline thing. It's not anything SDS has said, promoted, or described in any way, shape, or form.
    I'm not even sure it's used correctly by the author to be honest with you, but I don't play games that have Battle Passes so I can't be sure.

    Give it time....when they do the DD stream it will be promoted. Make no mistake about that LOL!!
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    RogerDodger
    A quick glance at the response to SDS for franchise questions shows there’s still a massive appetite for the mode. The idea there isn’t is “fake news”. Developers need to stop blaming gamers for not playing it (which they do by proxy if not via their own mouths) and be honest, they prefer to gouge more cash from their already paying customers than offer a deeper franchise.

    ya know, in the long run, in might not be a bad idea for the Studio to release a year's version w/o franchise mode for Sony to know they need to appreciate franchise more than they currently do. maybe then Sony would arrive to the conclusion its better to allocate more manpower to franchise. as long as they release with franchise I'm buying no matter how similar it is to the previous year but no franchise, no sale for me.
    I'm trying to be optimistic and hope going multi-platform doubles the Show's profits, put it more in line with Madden, FIFA & 2K basketball, in terms of units sold. but the pessimist in me tells me baseball as a sport (my personal favorite sport) is fast becoming a niche American sport like such as Nascar, hockey, golf, tennis and boxing
    For me if the time comes they get away from really caring at all about Franchise mode I will still to just OOTP and Strat o Matic.
    Franchise mode is only reason I play. And each year super mega gets better and better and if they ever got an MLB license look out.
    The people in charge for following the money. People are lame enough to buy the game then spend even more money on DD stuff. Why do they spend money on DD stuff? Because, they don't want to take the time to try to earn cards.
    It's a must have now thing.
    That's why Franchise mode is always pushed to the side. They don't see it as a priority because the majority of people don't play it. It's to time consuming for some and it's not instant gratification.
    I'm not sure why they'd want to go the Madden route though. Probably money. Remember when Madden first got rid of franchise and turned it into connected careers? That's the feeling I'm getting with the March to October.
    Everything that was awesome about Madden's franchise was taken out then slowly parts came back into connected careers, a "new" addition to the game year after year. But, it's still no where to what it was previously.
    Sadly, the show is following this trend and it sucks.
    Aside from the fact that they need to change the gameplay, especially the fielding. If anybody watched when they did the MLB players tournament and there were so many embarrassing fielding moments cause of the gameplay. That's all the players would talk about. So, if they didn't fix fielding issues, they aren't even listening to big leaugers. They won't listen to the community.
    Remember when you could cut TV deals and sponsors for your stadium? Or fans being happy or unhappy with certain players on your field? Or having a small newspaper article detailing your last game? Or upgrading your aerobic room?
    Yeah, MLB The Shows franchise mode is as barebones as Maddens but I never see anyone voicing their displeasure.
    People talk about how they think Franchise is bare-bones all the time around here. There's just not a 100 different threads talking about it all the time. The entire Madden game is a mess all around though and people spend 75% of their time "hate" playing it out of habit. The Show at the very least consistently brings solid gameplay and a franchise that works as intended... most of the time. Yeah it has issues and is missing features but I would say is enjoyable for most people.
    jrnlgrn
    People talk about how they think Franchise is bare-bones all the time around here. There's just not a 100 different threads talking about it all the time. The entire Madden game is a mess all around though and people spend 75% of their time "hate" playing it out of habit. The Show at the very least consistently brings solid gameplay and a franchise that works as intended... most of the time. Yeah it has issues and is missing features but I would say is enjoyable for most people.
    Franchise has taken multiple steps backwards over the years. The game plays beautifully, but franchise has plenty of legacy bugs that make it a challenge to keep it realistic.
    One bug that drives me nuts, and still has not been addressed in multiple years, is playoff eligibility. The logic is wrong and many times I am stuck going into the playoffs short handed because it will not let me add a player from my 40 man after I had an injury.
    Salaries regress and trade logic is also tied to it. When they introduced "real" salaries all that was done was real values were added to initial roster. We had the ability to do that prior, but didn't because the logic was built on the SCEA scale. Since that change trade logic has been affected and teams do not value players correctly and salaries in subsequent years see a major reduction.
    The budget process has taken a step back. It is convulted and makes no sense.
    Roster logic and trade logic has not been touched in years. Through testing I have also found that trades are much less likely to occur if playing every day.
    Injuries do not occur realistically on played games. Line drives hit pitchers and they shake it off.
    Players are traded multiple times In a season and sometimes traded back to the original team. There is even sign and trades in the off-season. This is a violation of mlb cba rules.
    Progression/regression needs tuning. Prospects do not progress correctly and ratings inflate in 4 years to the point where rosters are loaded with 80 plus overall starters who are not good. Many times you find starters in the bullpen at 80 overall and higher.
    There is no connection to the franchise you are playing. The real world is surrounded by Twitter feeds and such. The best we have is a radio show. Rumors etc should be in a social media feed. The radio show should be a pregame or post-game broadcast.
    "features" that have been added have never been expanded on or tweaked. Morale and quirks come to mind. For features that were to be a base they have never been built on.
    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
    Boedefeld
    Remember when you could cut TV deals and sponsors for your stadium? Or fans being happy or unhappy with certain players on your field? Or having a small newspaper article detailing your last game? Or upgrading your aerobic room?
    Yeah, MLB The Shows franchise mode is as barebones as Maddens but I never see anyone voicing their displeasure.

    You must not spend much time around here lol. Things typically do not get as toxic as many of the Madden threads, but there are plenty who have been critical of Franchise mode on these forums. They usually are much more respectable about it and can at least appreciate the solid gameplay that The Show offers, but it is not as if people on the forum have been completely silent about the lack of attention to franchise
    tabarnes19
    Franchise has taken multiple steps backwards over the years. The game plays beautifully, but franchise has plenty of legacy bugs that make it a challenge to keep it realistic.
    One bug that drives me nuts, and still has not been addressed in multiple years, is playoff eligibility. The logic is wrong and many times I am stuck going into the playoffs short handed because it will not let me add a player from my 40 man after I had an injury.
    Salaries regress and trade logic is also tied to it. When they introduced "real" salaries all that was done was real values were added to initial roster. We had the ability to do that prior, but didn't because the logic was built on the SCEA scale. Since that change trade logic has been affected and teams do not value players correctly and salaries in subsequent years see a major reduction.
    The budget process has taken a step back. It is convulted and makes no sense.
    Roster logic and trade logic has not been touched in years. Through testing I have also found that trades are much less likely to occur if playing every day.
    Injuries do not occur realistically on played games. Line drives hit pitchers and they shake it off.
    Players are traded multiple times In a season and sometimes traded back to the original team. There is even sign and trades in the off-season. This is a violation of mlb cba rules.
    Progression/regression needs tuning. Prospects do not progress correctly and ratings inflate in 4 years to the point where rosters are loaded with 80 plus overall starters who are not good. Many times you find starters in the bullpen at 80 overall and higher.
    There is no connection to the franchise you are playing. The real world is surrounded by Twitter feeds and such. The best we have is a radio show. Rumors etc should be in a social media feed. The radio show should be a pregame or post-game broadcast.
    "features" that have been added have never been expanded on or tweaked. Morale and quirks come to mind. For features that were to be a base they have never been built on.
    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

    I don't disagree with any of what you said. I never said there weren't issues or things taken out of the game. I'm was talking about a possible reason for the overall reaction both communities have towards their respective franchise modes and the original comment asking why "I never see anyone voicing their displeasure."
    Your post is evidence that people are displeased and disproves his point that no one talks about it. The only difference is you go to the madden section and there are multiple threads voicing there unhappiness where here it's usually contained within a few threads and occasionally a new one will pop up.
    The market for The Show has to grow significantly and franchise would have to decline even more for a twitter hashtag movement to get going.
    jahickory
    The people in charge for following the money. People are lame enough to buy the game then spend even more money on DD stuff. Why do they spend money on DD stuff? Because, they don't want to take the time to try to earn cards.
    It's a must have now thing.
    That's why Franchise mode is always pushed to the side. They don't see it as a priority because the majority of people don't play it. It's to time consuming for some and it's not instant gratification.
    I'm not sure why they'd want to go the Madden route though. Probably money. Remember when Madden first got rid of franchise and turned it into connected careers? That's the feeling I'm getting with the March to October.
    Everything that was awesome about Madden's franchise was taken out then slowly parts came back into connected careers, a "new" addition to the game year after year. But, it's still no where to what it was previously.
    Sadly, the show is following this trend and it sucks.
    Aside from the fact that they need to change the gameplay, especially the fielding. If anybody watched when they did the MLB players tournament and there were so many embarrassing fielding moments cause of the gameplay. That's all the players would talk about. So, if they didn't fix fielding issues, they aren't even listening to big leaugers. They won't listen to the community.

    I disagree about you saying franchise mode is dead and nobody plays it. We all play it that is why we are in this thread. For some of us its the only reason we play the game.
    GamingCeo27
    I disagree about you saying franchise mode is dead and nobody plays it. We all play it that is why we are in this thread. For some of us its the only reason we play the game.

    yeah, it ain't dead yet & while it remains to be seen if it's even terminal or not,
    it's definitely sick and in desperate need of some TLC
    Caulfield
    yeah, it ain't dead yet & while it remains to be seen if it's even terminal or not,
    it's definitely sick and in desperate need of some TLC
    Some TLC, and a blood transfusion and maybe some new organs to go along with it.
    Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app
    tabarnes19
    Franchise has taken multiple steps backwards over the years. The game plays beautifully, but franchise has plenty of legacy bugs that make it a challenge to keep it realistic.
    One bug that drives me nuts, and still has not been addressed in multiple years, is playoff eligibility. The logic is wrong and many times I am stuck going into the playoffs short handed because it will not let me add a player from my 40 man after I had an injury.
    Salaries regress and trade logic is also tied to it. When they introduced "real" salaries all that was done was real values were added to initial roster. We had the ability to do that prior, but didn't because the logic was built on the SCEA scale. Since that change trade logic has been affected and teams do not value players correctly and salaries in subsequent years see a major reduction.
    The budget process has taken a step back. It is convulted and makes no sense.
    Roster logic and trade logic has not been touched in years. Through testing I have also found that trades are much less likely to occur if playing every day.
    Injuries do not occur realistically on played games. Line drives hit pitchers and they shake it off.
    Players are traded multiple times In a season and sometimes traded back to the original team. There is even sign and trades in the off-season. This is a violation of mlb cba rules.
    Progression/regression needs tuning. Prospects do not progress correctly and ratings inflate in 4 years to the point where rosters are loaded with 80 plus overall starters who are not good. Many times you find starters in the bullpen at 80 overall and higher.
    There is no connection to the franchise you are playing. The real world is surrounded by Twitter feeds and such. The best we have is a radio show. Rumors etc should be in a social media feed. The radio show should be a pregame or post-game broadcast.
    "features" that have been added have never been expanded on or tweaked. Morale and quirks come to mind. For features that were to be a base they have never been built on.
    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

    Amen. Last two paragraphs especially. The social media feed should be in both RTTS and Franchise and actually useful. Presently the one in RTTS is a superficial thing that your last paragraph sums up perfectly. Notables - in the game until 17 I think. Gave us some semblance of engagement and immersion with our Franchise world. Removed from Franchise. Should have been put into the social media feed. Gone.
    Post-game newspaper articles, in the game up until 11, I think. Gone.
    Sadly, we have no immersion, despite a multitude of opportunities to draw us in being either removed or implemented superficially.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    jrnlgrn
    People talk about how they think Franchise is bare-bones all the time around here. There's just not a 100 different threads talking about it all the time. The entire Madden game is a mess all around though and people spend 75% of their time "hate" playing it out of habit. The Show at the very least consistently brings solid gameplay and a franchise that works as intended... most of the time. Yeah it has issues and is missing features but I would say is enjoyable for most people.

    The Shows gameplay is horrific. I’ve been playing this franchise since 2009 and the 09 version is way more enjoyable than any release in the PS4 era. The pitching animation alone still looks like absolute garbage and has the speed of a grandpa.
    At least Madden looks and feels amazing. Nothing about The Show feels immersive anymore.
    CBoller1331
    You must not spend much time around here lol. Things typically do not get as toxic as many of the Madden threads, but there are plenty who have been critical of Franchise mode on these forums. They usually are much more respectable about it and can at least appreciate the solid gameplay that The Show offers, but it is not as if people on the forum have been completely silent about the lack of attention to franchise

    That is completely true. I rarely venture into these forums anymore, just to get a slider base set and after that all the toxicity gets on my nerves.
    Boedefeld
    The Shows gameplay is horrific. I’ve been playing this franchise since 2009 and the 09 version is way more enjoyable than any release in the PS4 era. The pitching animation alone still looks like absolute garbage and has the speed of a grandpa.
    At least Madden looks and feels amazing. Nothing about The Show feels immersive anymore.
    That is completely true. I rarely venture into these forums anymore, just to get a slider base set and after that all the toxicity gets on my nerves.

    I stopped after the first sentence. That is simply a mind-boggling statement. But hey that is your opinion.
    I did an exercise and have gone all the way back to even The Show 11 as we love to romanticize about older games all the time around here.
    I still got great enjoyment out of The Show 11 and 12 on the PS3. 2009 is unplayable for me.
    On the PS4 14 is basically a relic compared to even 15.
    But once you get to 17 and beyond it is simply on a totally new level of realism.
    Like many here I agree about losing the pace of play from the MLB 09 - 11 era, newspapers, notable/recap, who’s hot and who’s not screen inside the franchise UI. Phases was in hindsight a terrible design decision. The removal of the third theme another bad decision.
    But make no mistake....IMO the gameplay on 20 is second to none for any console sports game ever made.
    Madden? LMFAO. Ok man. And I really enjoy Madden 21. But come on man. No comparison in gameplay for their respective sport. LOL!!!
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    I try to get fully immersed in the game, but it bummed me out when I noticed the broadcasters didnt mention once a trade I made for Evan White in my Pads chise... Be cool to hear about the details of the trade or have it slightly mentioned during the next game.
    jrnlgrn
    People talk about how they think Franchise is bare-bones all the time around here. There's just not a 100 different threads talking about it all the time. The entire Madden game is a mess all around though and people spend 75% of their time "hate" playing it out of habit. The Show at the very least consistently brings solid gameplay and a franchise that works as intended... most of the time. Yeah it has issues and is missing features but I would say is enjoyable for most people.

    Again completely disagree. It's the opposite in regards to "work as intended".
    Whether you like the infrastructure and progression in madden, it works. I'm in 2037 and dont have to mess around with other teams rosters. Or bump rookies ratings up. I can simply play and not worry about CPU
    The Show does not work as intended the deeper you get into franchise. I just dont think many people get 5+ years in to see. I do, and there are tons of manual things I have to do around the league to keep it afloat.
    eric7064
    Again completely disagree. It's the opposite in regards to "work as intended".
    Whether you like the infrastructure and progression in madden, it works. I'm in 2037 and dont have to mess around with other teams rosters. Or bump rookies ratings up. I can simply play and not worry about CPU
    The Show does not work as intended the deeper you get into franchise. I just dont think many people get 5+ years in to see. I do, and there are tons of manual things I have to do around the league to keep it afloat.

    Ok hold on now......I am in year 6 (2025) on Madden 21 and the CPU for several teams are brain dead in not only managing the cap but who they draft position wise and free agent decisions.
    It is not functional as you describe in a “I do not have to worry about the CPU”
    This is an area all sports games on the console have never really gotten totally right and Madden is absolutely no exception.
    I am in year 5 of my Yankees franchise (2021) and moat teams are functioning just fine. I have seen some teams wreck themselves too.
    It is prevalent on both The Show and Madden. Make no mistake.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    xxvii
    I try to get fully immersed in the game, but it bummed me out when I noticed the broadcasters didnt mention once a trade I made for Evan White in my Pads chise... Be cool to hear about the details of the trade or have it slightly mentioned during the next game.

    I do think there are broadcast elements that could definitely be improved on MLB. At times, the commentary does get stale and there are a few small presentation bugs that could be fixed.
    eric7064
    Again completely disagree. It's the opposite in regards to "work as intended".
    Whether you like the infrastructure and progression in madden, it works. I'm in 2037 and dont have to mess around with other teams rosters. Or bump rookies ratings up. I can simply play and not worry about CPU
    The Show does not work as intended the deeper you get into franchise. I just dont think many people get 5+ years in to see. I do, and there are tons of manual things I have to do around the league to keep it afloat.

    While there are issues the further you go, they do tend to start balancing out. Some draft class editing (at the end of the season) is necessary but a big help to all of this is starting out with a roster that is balanced for long term play with potentials more in line to what the league average is. I tend to have to lower player ratings more the further I go or else you get MLB teams with multiple 90+ players a piece before even looking at morale effects as opposed to increasing them.
    But I don't have to do a lot to keep it afloat.
    I would like to see better progression/regression and scouting. Fixing this would go a long way but it is not the opposite of work as intended.
    Boedefeld
    The Shows gameplay is horrific. I’ve been playing this franchise since 2009 and the 09 version is way more enjoyable than any release in the PS4 era. The pitching animation alone still looks like absolute garbage and has the speed of a grandpa.
    At least Madden looks and feels amazing. Nothing about The Show feels immersive anymore.
    That is completely true. I rarely venture into these forums anymore, just to get a slider base set and after that all the toxicity gets on my nerves.

    There is no doubt that both of these games still have room for growth.
    I would say Madden needs more help on the field even though 21 is a better game that the last few. I still would not say it feels amazing. And there are definitely immersion issues in game. When my 4th year QB is called signal caller at his introduction because the name database is subpar hurts and the fact that players look different than their pictures on the roster menu also kills immersion for me.
    I would say that MLB has very solid gameplay. 20 is a great game. So have the last few versions. I lean slightly toward 19 personally but that is more of a nostalgia/experience reason. I will also say that MLB has room to grow when it comes to immersion and off the field improvements but on the field there is a big difference.
    MLB is just better game play.
    To each their own. I respect your opinion but I did want to respond.
    dalger21

    It is quite obvious we are not the target audience. Not in the least bit.
    Play faster...get through seasons in less than 18 hours.....that is not representative of a part of this Show community here on OS. Yeah we are a niche group and we support each other in how to make the best of what we get.
    But at some point we may not be getting a good enough platform to do the things we love playing baseball.....but until we see otherwise all we can do is make the best of what we get.
    I can easily say what we got on the PS3 and PS4 has been marvelous. I can only hope they at least keep the gameplay as incredible as it has been for simulation minded players like myself. And as long as I at least have the sandbox of a franchise mode I can make it work in it’s current state.
    What was the death blow for 21 though was the loss of Y2Y because I am not a player who must have the latest roster and start over every year. I have been using the Y2Y feature to it’s fullest potential since it’s introduction 7 years ago. It has been a joyful ride and I will continue to enjoy it with all the older titles as well as 20.
    We all want Y2Y to come back for the new consoles. I just have a lot less faith today that it ever will. It simply is not a priority in the least bit IMO. I venture to say 95% of the Show players are one and done guys or online DD players exclusively.
    It is what it is.
    As far as the future of franchise mode. I simply do not see much coming our way in terms of what we are really wanting.
    1. Massive AI improvements
    2. Expanded Rosters
    3. Expanded scouting and player development
    I simply do not see that at all coming. Todays target audience is not interested in those details. They want to be in the post season in less than 24 hours.
    As far as the franchise mode goes, I think we can all agree that expanded rosters/expanded minor league systems would be a huge improvement, international signings and stuff would be amazing too.
    A few things I'd really like to see added are:
    1. Minor league stat history. We get everyone's major league stats on their player card and we get the current season's minor league stats (I think?), but it would be nice to be able to see Prospect X's AA numbers in 2019, AA numbers in 2020, and AAA numbers in 2021 so that I can see how he's performed. Maybe a progression history as well even if it's as shallow as simply showing how the player's overall has fluctuated from year to year.
    2. Minor league stadiums (or the Create a Stadium feature being deep enough to create them ourselves and assign them to minor league affiliates). I grew up in a city that had no major sports teams but had minor league affiliates in all the sports and it would be so cool to be able to play in their AAA stadium. Or in the very least, to not have 60+ minor league teams share 10 generic stadiums.
    3. Postseason Pitching Rotations. It's just dumb that every team uses a shortened rotation in real life for the postseason and nobody does that in The Show.
    I'd love to see the expanded rosters, international signings, better scouting systems, custom draft classes, more realistic potentials, progression sliders, etc., but the three things above (particularly #1 and #3) would be relatively small changes that have a huge impact IMO. The Show's gameplay and franchise (and the carry-over saves, RIP) make it probably my favorite sports game to build a franchise in, so I'm already happy as is, but I'd really really love to see those couple of things added (and in a dream scenario, the bigger things that people have mentioned in this thread added).
    dalger21

    I have to balance this out. I did not touch DD until the past 2 months, and I can assure you that it's NOT a predatory mode. There's a microtransaction aspect to it for sure, but I was shocked at how quickly I was able to accumulate stubs and XP from Conquest alone. It's far more of a GRIND than anything else, especially if you don't dabble in online.
    The only aspect of this mode that remains unattractive to me is that it rewards online competitive players far more than offline players. BUT it seems like SDS might be trying to balance that out as well.
    If franchise mode is the same this year as it's been -- pathetic scouting, pathetic prospects, no update to UI, no deeper finance options, no customizability -- then I think I'll start up with DD from the get-go and give it an honest try.
    Fuimus Troes
    I have to balance this out. I did not touch DD until the past 2 months, and I can assure you that it's NOT a predatory mode. There's a microtransaction aspect to it for sure, but I was shocked at how quickly I was able to accumulate stubs and XP from Conquest alone. It's far more of a GRIND than anything else, especially if you don't dabble in online.
    The only aspect of this mode that remains unattractive to me is that it rewards online competitive players far more than offline players. BUT it seems like SDS might be trying to balance that out as well.
    If franchise mode is the same this year as it's been -- pathetic scouting, pathetic prospects, no update to UI, no deeper finance options, no customizability -- then I think I'll start up with DD from the get-go and give it an honest try.


    That is exactly what the suits want you to do. Simple as that. Get ready to do that. Because there will not likely be nothing of true “wow” in the area you want improved to change your mind otherwise.
    Based on history.....it is almost a slamdunk. The whole wait till we get to next gen stuff is all horse ****.
    Calling it like I see it.
    But it plays a whale of a game of baseball. Hope that stay's true on 21 for you folks who buy it. Heck I may pick it up.....for $10 if the gameplay is still top notch just to play some post season mode with updated rosters. No way I am picking this up on release or anytime soon after. The run has come to an end for me.
    Sucks because I always look forward to this time of year knowing I was getting the new gameplay with my current franchise.
    Ugh......
    Armor and Sword
    I stopped after the first sentence. That is simply a mind-boggling statement. But hey that is your opinion.
    I did an exercise and have gone all the way back to even The Show 11 as we love to romanticize about older games all the time around here.
    I still got great enjoyment out of The Show 11 and 12 on the PS3. 2009 is unplayable for me.
    On the PS4 14 is basically a relic compared to even 15.
    But once you get to 17 and beyond it is simply on a totally new level of realism.
    Like many here I agree about losing the pace of play from the MLB 09 - 11 era, newspapers, notable/recap, who’s hot and who’s not screen inside the franchise UI. Phases was in hindsight a terrible design decision. The removal of the third theme another bad decision.
    But make no mistake....IMO the gameplay on 20 is second to none for any console sports game ever made.
    Madden? LMFAO. Ok man. And I really enjoy Madden 21. But come on man. No comparison in gameplay for their respective sport. LOL!!!
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    We all have our controversial opinions lol. The presentation in 09 alone makes it a more enjoyable experience than any PS4 title. Back then they had so many little commentary bits about so many players. “They not only have a gold glover but an MVP at second base as well” about Pedroia for example. Or talking about how Chien Ming Wang had an injury shortened season in 2008, even saying it happened while running the bases of all places. It’s those little things that made and still makes it a better game for me.
    And in regards to Madden, I get the hate the whole franchises receives. I’ve been religiously playing NFL 2k5 from 2008-2020. But after all these years certain gameplay elements just don’t hold up anymore. And Madden 21 has, at least imo, very fun gameplay. Running the ball is good, passing feels good, catching actually feels good and they don’t randomly jump away from the ball like they do in 2k5.
    But hey, I also think Shenmue 1 and 2 are one of the greatest games ever made, meanwhile others absolutely hate these games.
    Fuimus Troes
    If franchise mode is the same this year as it's been -- pathetic scouting, pathetic prospects, no update to UI, no deeper finance options, no customizability -- then I think I'll start up with DD from the get-go and give it an honest try.

    I don't know why they don't just change to season mode.
    Strip out all the fluff
    Give me the option to export my roster and stats at the end of teh season
    I'll take the roster, move players around, create the draft picks and amatuer FAs, and start fresh for the next year.
    Boedefeld
    We all have our controversial opinions lol. The presentation in 09 alone makes it a more enjoyable experience than any PS4 title. Back then they had so many little commentary bits about so many players. “They not only have a gold glover but an MVP at second base as well” about Pedroia for example. Or talking about how Chien Ming Wang had an injury shortened season in 2008, even saying it happened while running the bases of all places. It’s those little things that made and still makes it a better game for me.
    And in regards to Madden, I get the hate the whole franchises receives. I’ve been religiously playing NFL 2k5 from 2008-2020. But after all these years certain gameplay elements just don’t hold up anymore. And Madden 21 has, at least imo, very fun gameplay. Running the ball is good, passing feels good, catching actually feels good and they don’t randomly jump away from the ball like they do in 2k5.
    But hey, I also think Shenmue 1 and 2 are one of the greatest games ever made, meanwhile others absolutely hate these games.

    Agree about Madden 21. I am having a blast with the gameplay and I am on the PS4 version to boot.
    Yeah presentation was very good on PS3 Shows....a very big strong suite IMO.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Boedefeld
    And in regards to Madden, I get the hate the whole franchises receives. I’ve been religiously playing NFL 2k5 from 2008-2020. But after all these years certain gameplay elements just don’t hold up anymore. And Madden 21 has, at least imo, very fun gameplay. Running the ball is good, passing feels good, catching actually feels good and they don’t randomly jump away from the ball like they do in 2k5.

    The hate is deserved. More hate is deserved.
    There is no reason football gaming should be in the state it is in.
    EA was given the keys to a Ferrari. And decided the masses should drive Prius'
    Armor and Sword

    That is exactly what the suits want you to do. Simple as that. Get ready to do that. Because there will not likely be nothing of true “wow” in the area you want improved to change your mind otherwise.
    Based on history.....it is almost a slamdunk. The whole wait till we get to next gen stuff is all horse ****.
    Calling it like I see it.
    But it plays a whale of a game of baseball. Hope that stay's true on 21 for you folks who buy it. Heck I may pick it up.....for $10 if the gameplay is still top notch just to play some post season mode with updated rosters. No way I am picking this up on release or anytime soon after. The run has come to an end for me.
    Sucks because I always look forward to this time of year knowing I was getting the new gameplay with my current franchise.
    Ugh......

    100%. Should have said that I would PREFER, even PAY MORE FOR, a vastly improved franchise mode. And were that present, I might not ever go the way of DD.
    But like many things in life, this can be a both/and instead of an either/or.
    I honestly believe that SDS loves DD and is doing a great job with it AND that it's far less predatory than haters claim it is. I think the devs are trying to find the spot where money is made off of it but it's not over the top and disrespectful to consumers. The grind is real but so are the rewards, and the paths to those rewards are clear rather than dependent on loot boxes, etc.
    I also believe that SDS's commitment to DD directly hampers franchise mode improvements. And, yes: UGH to that, and shame on them.
    Madden08PCgmr
    The hate is deserved. More hate is deserved.
    There is no reason football gaming should be in the state it is in.
    EA was given the keys to a Ferrari. And decided the masses should drive Prius'

    Forgot one thing to cap off your analogy -- and still pay for the Ferrari.
    Fuimus Troes
    100%. Should have said that I would PREFER, even PAY MORE FOR, a vastly improved franchise mode. And were that present, I might not ever go the way of DD.

    I'm convinced pay-to-play is the only way franchise modes will improve going forward. For all sports titles.. and I am completely fine with that.
    Fuimus Troes
    I honestly believe that SDS loves DD and is doing a great job with it AND that it's far less predatory than haters claim it is. I think the devs are trying to find the spot where money is made off of it but it's not over the top and disrespectful to consumers. The grind is real but so are the rewards, and the paths to those rewards are clear rather than dependent on loot boxes, etc.
    I also believe that SDS's commitment to DD directly hampers franchise mode improvements. And, yes: UGH to that, and shame on them.

    I really enjoy DD.
    But I always walk away from a session thinking I would have been better off just grinding through my season/franchise.
    I don't think I can stress this point enough -- SDS claims that the data show that franchise users rarely make it through one year, and they use that as an excuse to NOT make improvements to the mode but RATHER drum up "more ways to play" as the so-called improvements.
    SDS, TAKE A STATS CLASS.
    It's at least as likely -- hell, almost certain -- that the stat represents USER DISSATISFACTION WITH THE MODE. Why go longer than a year when all the cpu-generated prospects suck, or the cpu makes horrible trades, or scouting sucks, or generational talents languish in free agency...?
    Data is just data. SDS should reach out to see WHY the numbers are what they are.
    Madden08PCgmr
    I'm convinced pay-to-play is the only way franchise modes will improve going forward. For all sports titles.. and I am completely fine with that.

    I've seen you make this statement before. Curious what do you find as a fair price for these DLC/micro-tranactions that would ultimately need to be purchased yearly by the consumer.
    jrnlgrn
    I've seen you make this statement before. Curious what do you find as a fair price for these DLC/micro-tranactions that would ultimately need to be purchased yearly by the consumer.

    Id personally be comfortable paying $100 a year for OOTP type depth with the gameplay of the show. Not sure I would play any other sports game at that point.
    I know people say we should not have too. And I agree, but I gladly would hand over $100 over every year for that type of upgrade.
    Fuimus Troes
    I don't think I can stress this point enough -- SDS claims that the data show that franchise users rarely make it through one year, and they use that as an excuse to NOT make improvements to the mode but RATHER drum up "more ways to play" as the so-called improvements.
    SDS, TAKE A STATS CLASS.
    It's at least as likely -- hell, almost certain -- that the stat represents USER DISSATISFACTION WITH THE MODE. Why go longer than a year when all the cpu-generated prospects suck, or the cpu makes horrible trades, or scouting sucks, or generational talents languish in free agency...?
    Data is just data. SDS should reach out to see WHY the numbers are what they are.
    I don't think that is the case. While the mode is a little bit bare bones, I think the fact that the season is a 162 game marathon is a much bigger reason why people do not make it a full season. It's hard to make 162 games not feel repetitive. That's why, while MTO certainly has its problems, I think it's a decent idea to make a full season mode feel a bit more manageable. I definitely see how it is not be what the hardcore-every-pitch-of-every-game crowd is looking for though.
    Sent from my SM-G930VL using Operation Sports mobile app
    Fuimus Troes
    I don't think I can stress this point enough -- SDS claims that the data show that franchise users rarely make it through one year, and they use that as an excuse to NOT make improvements to the mode but RATHER drum up "more ways to play" as the so-called improvements.
    SDS, TAKE A STATS CLASS.
    It's at least as likely -- hell, almost certain -- that the stat represents USER DISSATISFACTION WITH THE MODE. Why go longer than a year when all the cpu-generated prospects suck, or the cpu makes horrible trades, or scouting sucks, or generational talents languish in free agency...?
    Data is just data. SDS should reach out to see WHY the numbers are what they are.

    You think people rarely make it through one season because of issues that have most effect in later seasons? Not sure that logic tracks.
    SmashMan
    You think people rarely make it through one season because of issues that have most effect in later seasons? Not sure that logic tracks.
    I think the logic is sound, buy I think that other things need to be included.
    If you play 1 season and then start noticing issues in ladder seasons then you don't have a reason to continue playing those ladder seasons.
    The other thing that I would add, is if the franchise mode lacks depth from the start (as has long been the case) then people are going to get burned out on it even before they get to those long term issues.
    I think there definitely is a bit of "if you build it they will come" with franchise. In this case they aren't building it and people aren't coming.
    Sent from my S10 using Operation Sports mobile app
    jrnlgrn
    I've seen you make this statement before. Curious what do you find as a fair price for these DLC/micro-tranactions that would ultimately need to be purchased yearly by the consumer.

    Thats a hard question to answer.
    Would I be sold a jersey bundle? Or individual jerseys?
    Would I pay to belt homers over the right field Kingdome wall?.. you had better believe it!! How much? Depends how authentic it is.
    I think it would come down to; is this the only way to justify the man hours to put these things in teh game (for SDS) or is it just blatant price gauging?
    .. a PC release solves all of this. Fans would (eventually) do this work for SDS.
    KSUowls
    The other thing that I would add, is if the franchise mode lacks depth from the start (as has long been the case) then people are going to get burned out on it even before they get to those long term issues.
    I think there definitely is a bit of "if you build it they will come" with franchise. In this case they aren't building it and people aren't coming.

    They never should have cut out season mode.
    KSUowls
    I think the logic is sound, buy I think that other things need to be included.
    If you play 1 season and then start noticing issues in ladder seasons then you don't have a reason to continue playing those ladder seasons.

    I don't know what SDS' data shows exactly, just going off this poster's phrasing of "claims that the data show that franchise users rarely make it through one year", which (if true) reads to me as if users don't even make it for a complete season, not that they backed out mid-way through another year or whatever.
    People just aren't going to notice issues that pop up later if they tap out before getting there.
    The other thing that I would add, is if the franchise mode lacks depth from the start (as has long been the case) then people are going to get burned out on it even before they get to those long term issues.
    I think there definitely is a bit of "if you build it they will come" with franchise. In this case they aren't building it and people aren't coming.

    Lacks depth for who, though? For me, you, and probably most of the guys here who have been playing The Show for years and years? Yeah.
    For the player who maybe just plays DD and is thinking about getting into Franchise, or someone who usually just plays exhibition casually, or even a former season mode player...is it lacking depth for them? Are they overwhelmed by the options that currently exist?
    SmashMan
    You think people rarely make it through one season because of issues that have most effect in later seasons? Not sure that logic tracks.

    The assumption is that people know how messed up the mode is long-term. I don't think that's some hidden bit of info that only comes to light AFTER a full season. Seeing prospect attributes post-draft is enough, sometimes.
    These forums exist. People know the problems are there. They still start new franchises because franchise is there.
    Yes, the logic tracks.
    SmashMan

    For the player who maybe just plays DD and is thinking about getting into Franchise, or someone who usually just plays exhibition casually, or even a former season mode player...is it lacking depth for them? Are they overwhelmed by the options that currently exist?

    You don't create a franchise mode with those people in mind.
    That's how you make a great franchise mode.
    Madden08PCgmr
    Thats a hard question to answer.
    Would I be sold a jersey bundle? Or individual jerseys?
    Would I pay to belt homers over the right field Kingdome wall?.. you had better believe it!! How much? Depends how authentic it is.
    I think it would come down to; is this the only way to justify the man hours to put these things in teh game (for SDS) or is it just blatant price gauging?
    .. a PC release solves all of this. Fans would (eventually) do this work for SDS.
    I guess this is where the idea loses me. Would feel more like the company doesn't value my $70 enough to provide me with the best product they can. I just don't trust a company to not gouge us for things that should be standard parts of mode.
    Like classic stadiums make sense as DLC as that's more of a niche thing as with some throwback jerseys. A throwback jersey can go either way though as if a team regularly wears certain throwbacks they should be part of the game by default.
    If it's true extra items being added then DLC/micro-transations are easier to take. If it's just content being cut for the sake of making money on it then that's where I get hung up.
    jrnlgrn
    I guess this is where the idea loses me. Would feel more like the company doesn't value my $70 enough to provide me with the best product they can. I just don't trust a company to not gouge us for things that should be standard parts of mode.
    Like classic stadiums make sense as DLC as that's more of a niche thing as with some throwback jerseys. A throwback jersey can go either way though as if a team regularly wears certain throwbacks they should be part of the game by default.
    If it's true extra items being added then DLC/micro-transations are easier to take. If it's just content being cut for the sake of make money on it then that's where I get hung up.

    With the amount of money generated by DD we should never have to pay extra for any of it.
    Period.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Madden08PCgmr
    I'm convinced pay-to-play is the only way franchise modes will improve going forward. For all sports titles.. and I am completely fine with that.

    I am not convinced it's the way to go. Most free to play and pay to win or unlock "cool things" games are just flat out bad. Look at fortnite, path of exile, and others. They are horrible games in my opinion.
    I think pay to play ideas for franchises are a bad idea and would actually make the gameplay worse. You would make it almost like a subscription it sounds like. You would run into so many more issues with this.
    There isn't a way to make franchise better without just commiting to it as a company and we know sports title companies won't because it is not their money maker. But would making these things purchases make them huge money makers? No. If I want an enhanced franchise, I buy it once for $50. But if I want a full team of superstar players I pay $200. This is an example. I don't spend a penny on modes like DD.
    This is the inheritant problem with this idea. It may make them more money but still won't out perform what they do now with a year their yearly sales of players buying the game for franchise mode.
    I understand your premise in this but this is not a solution.
    Armor and Sword
    With the amount of money generated by DD we should never have to pay extra for any of it.
    Period.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Oh yeah totally agree.
    Madden08 has mentioned the idea a few times and I was just curious to hear more on their thoughts.
    Unless someone show me otherwise, micro-transations are just a way to further increase revenue and make investors happy. These sports titles weren't struggling prior to these card collecting games.
    jrnlgrn
    Oh yeah totally agree.
    Madden08 has mentioned the idea a few times and I was just curious to hear more on their thoughts.
    Unless someone show me otherwise, micro-transations are just a way to further increase revenue and make investors happy. These sports titles weren't struggling prior to these card collecting games.

    Not at all. Not the good ones at least.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Funkycorm
    This is the inheritant problem with this idea. It may make them more money but still won't out perform what they do now with a year their yearly sales of players buying the game for franchise mode.

    I don't believe that would be the case, if they did it right, and offered solid content.
    All these sports titles could have done more for themselves if they hadn't pigeon holed themselves into the same box. Madden especially. They could have 3 or 4 standalone games that could be profitable. They could have a coach game, a franchise game, a career game. Same with baseball.
    Teh bread and butter will always be 'arcade' version. That shouldn't be universally tied to teh rest. And they've done themselves, and us, a ridiculous disservice making it that way.
    We live in the age of persistent monetization. It sucks. But it is what it is. And things aren't going backwards.
    So IF a much better franchise mode were available at a premium price -- as DLC or part of a different edition -- I'd pay. Because I'm primarily a franchise player.
    Madden08PCgmr
    I don't believe that would be the case, if they did it right, and offered solid content.
    All these sports titles could have done more for themselves if they hadn't pigeon holed themselves into the same box. Madden especially. They could have 3 or 4 standalone games that could be profitable. They could have a coach game, a franchise game, a career game. Same with baseball.
    Teh bread and butter will always be 'arcade' version. That shouldn't be universally tied to teh rest. And they've done themselves, and us, a ridiculous disservice making it that way.

    I don't think 3 versions of the game would be more profitable. Assuming you sell each for $20 to keep the math simple, do you attract new people to the game? Maybe some. But you have those that buy one mode for $20 but it is worth another purchase if they want to use more than one? Maybe. Maybe not. Like you said it would depend on the quality of the content.
    But if I like 2 of those 3 modes and maybe want to try the third, why would I not just buy one game. Three games risk 3 different sets of bugs and likely more man power hence less overall profit from sales.
    I think sales go down if you do it this way. Instead of them getting $60 from a buyer who wants to play one mode only, they only get $20.
    Now don't get me wrong, I want a quality franchise product for my $60.
    Personally I find value because I spend hours immersed in it. It is not without flaws but I view it as value but everything on their end comes back to money.
    Like I said before I don't think pay to play is the answer but I also don't know what the answer is. I just look around and see pay to win and pay to be cool games and I cringe. I had to teach my kids a hard lesson about how these games work.
    CBoller1331
    I don't think that is the case. While the mode is a little bit bare bones, I think the fact that the season is a 162 game marathon is a much bigger reason why people do not make it a full season. It's hard to make 162 games not feel repetitive. That's why, while MTO certainly has its problems, I think it's a decent idea to make a full season mode feel a bit more manageable. I definitely see how it is not be what the hardcore-every-pitch-of-every-game crowd is looking for though.
    Sent from my SM-G930VL using Operation Sports mobile app
    Many of the things that MTO provides the user could do themselves and have all the tools available. MLB added the moments, player lock, the ability to sim in traditional franchise mode. MTO I see as more of a DD mode than a franchise mode.
    I think an easier solution would be to allow different season lengths. 162, 81, 26 as examples.
    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
    The Arcade/play now version will always sell. With or without anything else.
    DD/MUT can be a profitable game, by itself. That has been proven, beyond any rational debate.
    Tehy could easily sell a career driven game. Brady, Kobe, MJ, Shaq, Junior, Ruth... sports are about legends. Heros. You think that wouldn't sell? IF they did it right?
    NFL Head Coach still has a cult following. There are still people that play Madden coach mode, even in a broken [email protected]@rdized form. It would sell if it was done right. Same with a Manager mode for MLB. Probably not for hoops.
    Narrow minded thinking is why sports games are where they are. Reactionary thinking.
    One-size fits all is not working.
    Madden08PCgmr
    The Arcade/play now version will always sell. With or without anything else.
    DD/MUT can be a profitable game, by itself. That has been proven, beyond any rational debate.
    Tehy could easily sell a career driven game. Brady, Kobe, MJ, Shaq, Junior, Ruth... sports are about legends. Heros. You think that wouldn't sell? IF they did it right?
    NFL Head Coach still has a cult following. There are still people that play Madden coach mode, even in a broken [email protected]@rdized form. It would sell if it was done right. Same with a Manager mode for MLB. Probably not for hoops.
    Narrow minded thinking is why sports games are where they are. Reactionary thinking.
    One-size fits all is not working.

    I agree with some of your points here.
    We all know DD like modes are profitable. And yes, one size fits all does not always work. Never does for anything. Something always gets left behind.
    I feel like coach mode as you call it a cult following, would be poorly received and be cut long term. Look at head coach 09. I never played this series but from my understanding it was stopped because it wasn't selling. I never personally understood playing that way but to each their own.
    My concern with this idea, though creative, is what happens when the franchise game undersells or doesn't turn a profit with the dlc features? They compare it to DD and put their money there. But they are already doing that. Splitting them up would be the end for franchise modes. That's my main point here.
    Either way, I don't think we will sway the others thinking on this topic but I appreciate the discussion.

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