MLB The Show 20
MLB The Show 20 Preview: Franchise Mode, Real Minor League Rosters and Road to the Show Twitch Stream Highlights
It’s been years since franchise mode has received any major additions, and while the under-the-hood improvements may continue to be lacking, having full minor league rosters on day one is going to be huge, especially for those outside the Operation Sports ecosystem. In addition to a rebrand feature with some modicum of relocation to it, let’s get to all the highlights from the Road to the Show and franchise mode streams.
Franchise Mode Changes
Folks have been begging for a relocation system in MLB The Show for the entire PS4 generation, and it is finally here — kind of. New to MLB The Show 20, you will be able to customize anywhere between 1-30 teams in franchise mode, making the experience quite personalized. The new feature will mirror create-a-team aspects from Diamond Dynasty. These include custom logos, custom uniforms, custom team names and cities, as well as the ability to “relocate” your team to any one of the 60 stadiums already featured in the game. In other words, you will be able to import one team or create a whole fictionalized league — or even re-create an old year in MLB history, which could be somewhat similar to something some folks already do in Out of the Park Baseball.
There will also be 12 cities — they did not name them — that will also apply to the concept of relocation. There was no mention of any sort of generic stadium editor, stadium creator, or even a mention of new generic MLB stadiums in the game. These things were never promised, but obviously many folks were hoping to hear about them. You will be able to rebrand your team before the season begins or during the offseason. From there, you can also export and import your rebranded teams.
With that in mind, it also remains to be seen how much your custom team colors and logo will be baked into pre-existing ballparks.
When relocating a team, hundreds of audio cues have been incorporated to allow a feel of complete authenticity. Hit your organization’s first home run? Matt Vasgersian will highlight it. Win your first game as a new team? Expect the achievement to be honored and treated as such. There will even by unique commentary built into the game for the 12 specific cities that have pre-existing real-life storylines requiring dialogue.
Real Minor League Rosters
Real minor league rosters have been catching a lot of headlines over the past week as San Diego Studio has been teasing the new feature — it certainly was not a letdown.
New this season, with the help of longtime OS’er Scott Spindler (RidinRosters) and his team, over 1,500 authentic minor league players will grace the launch version of MLB The Show 20. Over 100 of those prospects received face scans, as well as unique batting stances, pitching deliveries, and in some cases, impeccable equipment portrayals. These minor league players will come with their very own unique audio quips and cues to ensure storylines are felt as you promote your top prospects up the ladder.
It remains to be seen exactly how San Diego Studio received clearance to use these players’ likenesses, but from this chair, it would make sense they’re leaning on a pre-existing partnership between the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues (NAPBL), better known as Minor League Baseball and MLB Advanced Media. This allows the digital rights of all minor league players to be used by MLB, thus, creating an umbrella over to MLB’s partnership with Sony. However, we’re still awaiting final confirmation on this so we will update this piece accordingly when we hear more.
Minor league rosters have been an undertaking “10 years in the making,” according to Nick Livingston, a developer for San Diego Studio. The team at has been in contact with OS’ers Knight and now RidinRosters to help make the project a reality.
Elsewhere, MLB The Show 20 will incorporate all of the new rule changes being implemented in Major League Baseball this season. This includes:
- 26-man rosters (28 after September 1)
- 3-batter minimum for pitchers
- Waiver trades have been removed
- 10-day IL for position players and 15-day IL stints for pitchers
- Two-way players
Two-way players is especially important as it all but guarantees the ability to pitch and hit with guys like Shohei Ohtani and Brendan McKay on a regular basis this season. That was extremely difficult to achieve in last year’s iteration. The organization limit is still capped at 90 players, so this means Single A will now have 12 slots rather than 15. There was no mentions about Single A players/rosters in general in the stream.
Of course, there was also no mention of things like roster logic, trade logic, rotating interleague schedules, player progression tweaks, bullpen management improvements and so on. Since these things were not mentioned in any capacity, we have to assume they mostly went untouched, which stings. Again, nothing was promised, but it would be nice to be able to expect things like this every year for franchise mode whether or not the mode is a focus. The developers could of course still have more details for us outside a rushed stream like this, but we would not bank on it at this juncture.
Diamond Dynasty
On the Diamond Dynasty side, a new series of cards highlighting top prospects will be available on day one. These cards will not be end-game cards (99 overalls), but they’ll certainly add a level of fun and excitement not seen previously. All 30 teams will be represented right out of the gates with new prospect cards in Diamond Dynasty.
This year’s game will include 25 new bat skins, 35 new audio chimes and 30 new bat slam home run celebrations.
Road To The Show
About 90 percent of the Road to the Show improvements had already been posted in various videos and news leading up this stream, so that’s why we’re mostly leaving it out. You can see above all the brands now in The Show. In addition, one little tidbit is that you will be able to get equipment from some of the dynamic challenges. There looks like there’s quite a lot of good stuff here for RttS, just not much new stuff came from the stream itself.
Miscellaneous
Also, a couple new legends were introduced today. Washington State University great John Olerud, a first baseman, will be making his legend debut (also a Toronto Blue Jay, I suppose). The other new legend shown was Orioles stud second baseman Brian Roberts.
Next week, San Diego Studio will show off some of the best players at their respective positions, a players rankings show if you will. We’ll have full coverage, as usual.
And the tradition continues.
You guys don't consider franchise relocation and full minor league rosters as major additions to franchise mode? Boy, tough crowd.
Lol ok
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Full Minors aren’t new. They’ve been in the game for quite some time. You just downloaded them before this year. What’s new?
It’s rebranding, not relocation, just FYI. Anyways, as I said before, looks good, as rebranding. However, stadiums is 100% a letdown. Let’s change location and team name but be stuck with stadiums that will have MLB team branding, not cool. You have got to offer generic stadiums, no excuse. It will really kill the immersion of this feature.
We've had full minors for a decade and relocation is very watered down to the point it's only beneficial for fictional rosters.
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When there are so many things that need to be fixed or tweaked to make it at least somewhat close to the real life sport; replay system, a.i. logic, among many others, it just make these changes not as thrilling to me.
It’s rebranding, not relocation, just FYI. Anyways, as I said before, looks good, as rebranding. However, stadiums is 100% a letdown. Let’s change location and team name but be stuck with stadiums that will have MLB team branding, not cool. You have got to offer generic stadiums, no excuse. It will really kill the immersion of this feature.
They just don’t deserve a pass on this in my opinion. Yes they gave us a highly requested feature but they put in as little effort into it as they could. With how little attention franchise has gotten since DD came to the game, giving us the most basic quick low effort version of ‘relocation’ they could just isn’t enough.
However, if some cool *** stuff comes to March to October and we don't get it in Franchise Mode that sucks. Or if/when we don't get quality of life improvements to franchise mode that most games are still getting, then that also sucks.
FIFA and NBA 2K and Madden all took a lot of crap for their franchise mode improvements or lack there of this year, but they did try to include some of them -- even if ultimately they stumbled in some regards. Those people all give their franchise mode a lot of flack as well, but you can quantify those complaints, and the complaints are more "hey, you tried to fix this but you executed it poorly or missed this bug." Ultimately, that's more aggravating to a lot of people, but the complaint comes from a different place than the ones here.
With Show, it's hard to even complain for those who want to about the under-the-hood-stuff because it's just not changing so there's not new things to really even be mad at. You end up being mad at the same things, and thus you get some of the feelings being mentioned here. There's still a line you don't want to cross in terms of how much of a d!ck you are about it, but the indifference and just dejected nature some people feel is understandable.
Still, rebranding and minor league rosters are going to open up some unique angles. The rebranding especially could be cooler, but it is something tangible and new. It is big even if it's already been elsewhere in the game. It's like if the RttS concepts got transferred to Franchise. I would not be mad about relationships being an option within in even though it was elsewhere. After all, people should be happy if things get shared with Franchise mode because then the mode isn't being forgotten and left out as the other modes advance. And if your feeling is these modes are getting forgotten because they don't make a dime after launch, you should be pushing that angle even more to make sure you still get cool ish.
But yes, if the logic still is borked or you can't even get basic colors in your stadium to update with the theme of your team, there is a level of fantasy meeting reality that bangs against itself too hard at points. Being the Vancouver Phillies who either play at Citizens Bank still or one of the minor league or retro parks, is weird. It's dissonance on a level that is hard to look by.
Anyway, you basically got a sneak peak at the general article I'll be writing about this, but yeah, that's where I'm at so far after reading most of the comments today and how they mesh with my own feelings on the topic.
I know you only made like one trade in March To October last year, right? (sorry been months since I played it) But did you even offer that trade or were the trades just offered to you? I feel like they were just offered to me but could be wrong.
It’s rebranding, not relocation, just FYI. Anyways, as I said before, looks good, as rebranding. However, stadiums is 100% a letdown. Let’s change location and team name but be stuck with stadiums that will have MLB team branding, not cool. You have got to offer generic stadiums, no excuse. It will really kill the immersion of this feature.
We've had full minors for a decade and relocation is very watered down to the point it's only beneficial for fictional rosters.
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They just don’t deserve a pass on this in my opinion. Yes they gave us a highly requested feature but they put in as little effort into it as they could. With how little attention franchise has gotten since DD came to the game, giving us the most basic quick low effort version of ‘relocation’ they could just isn’t enough.
There are major additions and fixes needed to franchise mode. I never said there wasn't and still being on a 90-man roster limit is a disappointment. But that being said, I'm excited because I see this is only the beginning and a major step in the right direction of us finally getting the franchise mode we all want.
As far as full minors goes, yes, we had full minors from the great guys here at OSFM, but they were limited because there was no player audio and things of that nature tied to them. We also had to wait for them to get finished and drop before we could use them. Now we get them straight from day 1 of the game release and we get audio and face scans tied to some of them. Meaning that the elite prospects have player specific story lines that will be tied into the franchise mode. That's huge IMO.
We all want more from The Show but I'm not gonna dump on the team for finally putting in some version of relocation and rebranding that we've all wanted for years. It's a major step in the right direction and only the beginning. I don't claim to know anything about video game development and what all goes into it and what the Sony guys are dealing with so I'm not gonna sit here and claim they can do this or do that or should have fixed this or that. I applaud them for a major step in the right direction.
It’s great they finally put DD creation in Franchise should have been implanted in Franchise year one that it was added to the game ...But with that said glad they are in will be a day one buy.. The logic of the season modes ,Franchise and RTTS have been absutely horrendous on every year of the PS4 meening the computer or SDS simulator jus dosent simulate an actual baseball team and the transactions that they would actually do .. Trades,signings , call ups ,DFA not to mention the actual wins and losses.. My character in the RTTS by the time I make it to the parent team have traded away Franchise players top players for absurd returns not to mention the crazy game scores and statistics ..
Lol ok
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These statements are a bit disingenuous.
Minor league rosters already existed for anyone who was aware of OS as well as anyone who randomly accessed the community rosters that were available in the games roster vault. It's nice to have those rosters officially integrated, but it isn't factual to suggest that this is some leap in the user experience.
The franchise "relocation" does not seem very deep. It will be a nice feature for some, and I would even say a welcome addition for all. It seems rather superficial though.
Are these steps in the right direction? Yes they are. Baby steps.
No one is dumping on the team.. we are venting the truth. This mode continuously gets ignored (as does many other games franchise modes) and we just want the core to get some much needed love, there are so many small things that need fixed.
And for the love of God, GIVE US ROTATING INTER-LEAGUE SCHEDULES. I seriously think this is the #1 request - even more than relocation was.
Minor league rosters already existed for anyone who was aware of OS as well as anyone who randomly accessed the community rosters that were available in the games roster vault. It's nice to have those rosters officially integrated, but it isn't factual to suggest that this is some leap in the user experience.
The franchise "relocation" does not seem very deep. It will be a nice feature for some, and I would even say a welcome addition for all. It seems rather superficial though.
Are these steps in the right direction? Yes they are. Baby steps.
SDS dosent get pass for adding DD creation to Franchise and the minor leaguers have always been available to download from the vault at some time or another so nothing new there..If they had added the say friendships that they added to RTTS now that would be new but franchisers all know they never add it there first 🤙
The full minors roster was as much to do with RTTS as it was for franchise. I'm all for shared assets and it's a smart way of doing things, but I'm also not going to say that it is "franchise addition" either.
Now....if they actually tuned the AI, progression, and regression formulae to accommodate a Full Minors roster, then I'll give you that. But there was nothing mentioned during the stream that suggests that any of that was done. They aren't going to go into a deep dive into franchise in a stream like that, I 100% get that. But not even a mere mention like "our team did a lot of under the hood tuning which should greatly improve roster management to accommodate the new roster paradigm" or "we made a number of QoL changes that you should all enjoy")? I think for many of us, THAT is a bigger deal than the lack of new features. That said, maybe there are a lot of changes we don't know about (I'm not holding my breath).
I can (and will continue to) greatly enjoy the mode as I derive my enjoyment from playing every game and seeing the little stories develop as the season goes on. But, I don't think it's untoward for people to be feeling a little salty.
With that said, this really feels like a "throw 'em a bone" approach regarding franchise. As most everyone on here knows, the franchise players (including myself) have been some of the most outspoken "complainers" the last many years with the perceived lack of attention put towards "our" mode.
There are SO many little things that have not been touched that need major work, and this really feels like they just threw us something new and somewhat flashy so they can metaphorically say, "here", and shut us up.
Yes, these are good and "cool" additions, but that stops short of the point we have been trying to make for what seems like an eternity.
I agree; as we all know, unfortunately Franchise mode is not a selling point anymore. SDS is accountable to Sony and they have targets to meet just like we do in our own jobs. The DD grinds and RTTS are the selling points. Franchise is probably allocated very few resources year in year out for that reason. The team working on Franchise improvements are probably just as frustrated as its player base that they don't have the resources to go under the hood and spend time adding depth to the additional content and fixing logic. The deeper a feature goes, the more time it requires to design, develop and test.
For the record, I actually enjoy RTTS even more since the revamp and even though there are other improvements (such as movement based on performance) I'd like to see, I am looking forward to playing RTTS 20.*
Personally for me relocating my team or any other team just robs my franchise of all authenticity and I never do it. I for one would've loved a full owner mode with ticket prices, maybe some upgrade to your stadium even if they weren't visual when playing etc. etc.
Interaction with your players, make the league feel alive with newspapers etc. etc.
The P&R system has gotten a much-deserved fleshing out, they mentioned some specific presentation elements for RTTS, and they're making the user the star. All of that sounds subtle, but this could end up being a whole that's greater than the sum of the parts.
This wasn't "shut up and take my money," but my short list just got an addition.
The P&R system has gotten a much-deserved fleshing out, they mentioned some specific presentation elements for RTTS, and they're making the user the star.* All of that sounds subtle, but this could end up being a whole that's greater than the sum of the parts.
This wasn't "shut up and take my money," but my short list just got an addition.
Yeah, I think it's just more we've gotten the RttS info all week so we sort of already knew about it and mostly felt good about it going into this stream. RttS is the most played feature by far, so it's always going to get some love I imagine.
It’s rebranding, not relocation, just FYI. Anyways, as I said before, looks good, as rebranding. However, stadiums is 100% a letdown. Let’s change location and team name but be stuck with stadiums that will have MLB team branding, not cool. You have got to offer generic stadiums, no excuse. It will really kill the immersion of this feature.
That’s the truth, cutting and pasting the DD create-a-team feature has to be supported by at least a few generic major league ballparks. Otherwise it’s a minimal effort again.
I couldn't even tell you how excited I'd be if they just put a new progression/regression/training system in the game. Even if it was no better than the current one, it simply being different and me needing to try and figure out how to best use it would be so much more exciting than doing the exact same thing, every single year. Same foes for scouting, or contract negotiations, or pretty much most of the systems in the game.
I am trying to figure out how if at all this is a productive addition to this conversation. Okay, we get it. Your not a franchise guy. So maybe keep your biases in this thread directed towards RTTS (this is a shared thread with franchise btw).
To say that we are a “tough crowd” is a ridiculous statement. We have been loyal and patient for five years, continuously buying this game year after year without nearly any improvements to franchise whatsoever. Yes we get Full Minors rosters. Yes we get a half baked “rebranding” feature that was already available via DD FOR YEARS now. But a lot of the legacy issues or broken features we have been asking to be fixed have gone untouched for well over five years now. And believe me we are not asking for a lot.
I will still be buying day one. Full minors day one and the gameplay updates are enough to get me excited THIS YEAR at least. But to come in here (a thread where franchise mode is a highlight no less) and criticize the franchise players for wanting more from SDS and expecting it to come off as anything but disingenuous is Frankly comical.
It always blows my mind how you DD guys like to chime in that this mode isn’t a “money making” mode, like we don’t already know that lol
Edit: Telling is to be patient with a month to go shows your lack of knowledge on this subject. History tells us that if SDSs doesn’t hail improvements in their streams, their likely isn’t any. So Yeah, for the 6th year in row franchise will essentially be the same
I would imagine that they are losing sales to “franchise cats” each year when the mode is largely the same year after year, no? Also, they lose people who might dabble into those modes where they do generate extra revenue. There is a much bigger picture that you seem to missing, and one could argue, that they are as well.
Fortunately for them, they are the only game on the market. Also, they will get a huge boost next year moving to new consoles. Franchise mode, will continue to be virtually the same mode as it has been for years.
And it funny that you call people toxic when you enter a thread telling people to not be butthurt.
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Makes sense
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Perhaps, but do we just mean franchise mode? If so, what was in their previews/Twitch streams before this that makes you think they overpromised? I feel like it's more they delivered exactly what seemed to be out there in the lead up and just nothing beyond that.
Makes sense
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Alright, the third person responding I think is a good place to call it on returning the toxicity back at the original instigator of perceived toxicity.
I agree with this. There really wasn’t a whole lot promised, but they delivered on the “leaks.”
It is to me. I waited for their twitch stream to confirm and pre-ordered today. Plus Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz for legends. This will probably be my last until I get a PS5 in the future.
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As far as full minors goes, yes, we had full minors from the great guys here at OSFM, but they were limited because there was no player audio and things of that nature tied to them. We also had to wait for them to get finished and drop before we could use them. Now we get them straight from day 1 of the game release and we get audio and face scans tied to some of them. Meaning that the elite prospects have player specific story lines that will be tied into the franchise mode. That's huge IMO.
We all want more from The Show but I'm not gonna dump on the team for finally putting in some version of relocation and rebranding that we've all wanted for years. It's a major step in the right direction and only the beginning. I don't claim to know anything about video game development and what all goes into it and what the Sony guys are dealing with so I'm not gonna sit here and claim they can do this or do that or should have fixed this or that. I applaud them for a major step in the right direction.
Plus we don’t have to wait until May to get them now. It was cool they had Ridin and knight work on the rosters
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No. We want to boo this man!
I kid I kid lol
Basically youd have to start a season control all the teams, have trades and injuries off, then rebrand and export a bunch of teams, THAN restart a franchise?
am I wrong?
if this is the case thats some lazy work/ bad prioritzing on SDS
Basically youd have to start a season control all the teams, have trades and injuries off, then rebrand and export a bunch of teams, THAN restart a franchise?
am I wrong?
if this is the case thats some lazy work/ bad prioritzing on SDS
Nah, you can also do it at the start. I think the offseason aspect is more in there for people who are importing franchises from prior versions of the game.
It would be cool to for example change the rockies from purple to green white and black without having to hunt down logos in the vault
I mean something can be OOTP-like without being exactly as deep. The point is you can create some fictionalized leagues etc. if you want now. And yeah I think you'll still need 30 teams.
A crowd that has tolerated one of the games most important modes being effectively unchanged every year for the last five could hardly be characterised as “tough”.
I know, sometimes SDS deserves all ‘chise players boycott the game and be quiet on supporting the game here so they realize how this base is influencing lot of new gamers to join the party.
But hey, I believe ‘chise players are the most passionate of all MLBTS gamers and we’ll buy it again as every year since MLB06 & run our franchise like crazy :-) Me the first.
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I highly doubt it. But who knows
Lol if it weren’t for franchise players buying this game all those years there would be no game plus RTTS is the most played mode in the game and they don’t make that much from that mode either so it doesn’t matter if the mode yields people buying extra stubs or whatever if you buy the game should be stuff added each year to every mode and Franchise mode hasn’t been touched much at all on the PS4 .. SDS has been very fortunate that MVP baseball went away and that no other competition has been around because they would have been left behind with way they have forgotten about what has kept them around as long as it has been ..
One factor to perhaps consider is how long do franchises last. The Show probably has better long-term numbers due to carryover saves, but I know for a fact in a lot of these sports games, it's just an insane number of people who never get past the first year in franchise -- and this goes back years and years with the data and analytics peeps have. If you know you're already making the mode for a small subset of your total community, and things are more data-driven now than ever, that also probably plays some part in this.
If their data says peeps only make it one year, then March to October makes more sense etc. This isn't to justify it or not, or even get into a chicken/egg thing, I'm just saying what other factors could be beyond the "the mode doesn't make money post-launch" angle, considering RttS doesn't really either (but we know it's the most played mode by far).
If their data says peeps only make it one year, then March to October makes more sense etc. This isn't to justify it or not, or even get into a chicken/egg thing, I'm just saying what other factors could be beyond the "the mode doesn't make money post-launch" angle, considering RttS doesn't really either (but we know it's the most played mode by far).
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I disagree. Someone else in a thread referred to franchise mode as "one of the most important modes in the game". I legitimately laughed out loud when I read it because of how off-base it is.
Franchise mode is about patience. Franchise mode is about being engrossed in the game. Franchise mode is about "the experience" of creating your own universe.
The masses of gamers today want to "get in, get out, get rewarded". They have very short attention spans and want that positive reinforcement, whether it be in-game currency, XP, or just progress in general. I think this is a huge reason why RTTS is so popular. They can finish off a game quickly and after every game, they get that positive reinforcement (as the player progresses). Heck....they even get little feedback indicators after every action. But they get to go right to the next game quickly...much like a game of Fortnite or Apex. Finish a franchise game (which takes maybe 5X longer) and there is no reward other than going to the next one. Progress is slow and takes patience. (my lord...guys complain about 6 inning games for events as being "too long"...that's the world we live in)
For us franchise die-hards who want to play for the experience, it's great. But that paradigm just doesn't work for the masses who play to get that virtual pat on the back for every little thing they do. SDS could add in enhanced scouting, player development, stadium creation, fix all the bugs, do everything we want them to do. But none of those things change the paradigm...you're still playing JUST for the experience, and not a reward.
What it comes down to...people are playing sports games to scratch a different itch..and Franchise doesn't scratch it any more...and nothing short of a complete paradigm shift that us "old guys" will loathe (cough...cough...March to October) will change that.
Franchise mode is about patience. Franchise mode is about being engrossed in the game. Franchise mode is about "the experience" of creating your own universe.
The masses of gamers today want to "get in, get out, get rewarded". They have very short attention spans and want that positive reinforcement, whether it be in-game currency, XP, or just progress in general. I think this is a huge reason why RTTS is so popular. They can finish off a game quickly and after every game, they get that positive reinforcement (as the player progresses). Heck....they even get little feedback indicators after every action. But they get to go right to the next game quickly...much like a game of Fortnite or Apex. Finish a franchise game (which takes maybe 5X longer) and there is no reward other than going to the next one. Progress is slow and takes patience. (my lord...guys complain about 6 inning games for events as being "too long"...that's the world we live in)
For us franchise die-hards who want to play for the experience, it's great. But that paradigm just doesn't work for the masses who play to get that virtual pat on the back for every little thing they do. SDS could add in enhanced scouting, player development, stadium creation, fix all the bugs, do everything we want them to do. But none of those things change the paradigm...you're still playing JUST for the experience, and not a reward.
What it comes down to...people are playing sports games to scratch a different itch..and Franchise doesn't scratch it any more...and nothing short of a complete paradigm shift that us "old guys" will loathe (cough...cough...March to October) will change that.
This is pretty accurate. I'm ONLY interested in franchise modes of any sports game. Building a team from scratch and watching it grow over a series of "season" is the only thing that interests me. But we're definitely a dying breed.
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I understand the points you're raising, and I wasn't trying to justify any one position, rather just present it. I'm simply saying this goes back years for where franchise modes land in the "most played" area, and it takes in not just the recent stagnation. This is not a new trend, so I don't think it just ties into the recent lack of improvements. But, again, there is a chicken or the egg component to it to be sure, which is why I don't hard disagree with you either.
My other point (more in your favor) is this is also why online franchise modes dropped out of favor in a bunch of games around the same time as well. If you're taking a mode that's already not played much, it drops even more with online franchise. Now, my point there is the same it would be for franchise mode proper in that the people who do get into those modes are some of your strongest supporters and champions for the game, which I think regardless of every sale counting for the same in the bank account, those people matter more because they are the ones who spread the message more. If you make them happy, the broader discussion around your game also improves and gets better.
Franchise mode is about patience. Franchise mode is about being engrossed in the game. Franchise mode is about "the experience" of creating your own universe.
The masses of gamers today want to "get in, get out, get rewarded". They have very short attention spans and want that positive reinforcement, whether it be in-game currency, XP, or just progress in general. I think this is a huge reason why RTTS is so popular. They can finish off a game quickly and after every game, they get that positive reinforcement (as the player progresses). Heck....they even get little feedback indicators after every action. But they get to go right to the next game quickly...much like a game of Fortnite or Apex. Finish a franchise game (which takes maybe 5X longer) and there is no reward other than going to the next one. Progress is slow and takes patience. (my lord...guys complain about 6 inning games for events as being "too long"...that's the world we live in)
For us franchise die-hards who want to play for the experience, it's great. But that paradigm just doesn't work for the masses who play to get that virtual pat on the back for every little thing they do. SDS could add in enhanced scouting, player development, stadium creation, fix all the bugs, do everything we want them to do. But none of those things change the paradigm...you're still playing JUST for the experience, and not a reward.
What it comes down to...people are playing sports games to scratch a different itch..and Franchise doesn't scratch it any more...and nothing short of a complete paradigm shift that us "old guys" will loathe (cough...cough...March to October) will change that.
You nailed on it the head at one point. Its not that a large majority of people are playing franchise but how many people stop playing the game if you remove franchise. I see some people pining for extensive relocation and such but im sure Sony could satiate hardcore franchise players with something so simple as adding roster spots, fixing bullpen logic, fixing budgets, etc. Im not a video game developer but these seem like easy fixes or maybe just adding in sliders where ppl can control this and Sony wont have to worry too much about it.
I don't think franchise is going away, I think a lot of sports game devs cut their teeth on franchise modes like we have and there is a nostalgia factor there. It just isn't a mainstream mode now. It's kinda like those limited release films that few people even heard of that wind up winning a ton of Oscars (vs the latest Action Film that is of "lesser quality" but makes the masses happy).
Speaking for myself, I think a few simple things would satiate many of us. Here's the issue, we ALL have a "few simple things"...and the lists vary greatly.
OK...I HATE this idea because it's been tried and continues to fail miserably. NBA 2k did that with MyLeague. It was a bland and drab mode to begin with, but then they added a bunch of mode-specific sliders for stuff. Now, they barely touch the mode and franchise users get to "immerse themselves" in fixing 2k's mistakes and frankly, that's not the kind of immersion I am interested in. I get it, it sounds awesome in theory....but I want companies to continue to be culpable for all modes they put out.
Franchise mode is about patience. Franchise mode is about being engrossed in the game. Franchise mode is about "the experience" of creating your own universe.
The masses of gamers today want to "get in, get out, get rewarded". They have very short attention spans and want that positive reinforcement, whether it be in-game currency, XP, or just progress in general. I think this is a huge reason why RTTS is so popular. They can finish off a game quickly and after every game, they get that positive reinforcement (as the player progresses). Heck....they even get little feedback indicators after every action. But they get to go right to the next game quickly...much like a game of Fortnite or Apex. Finish a franchise game (which takes maybe 5X longer) and there is no reward other than going to the next one. Progress is slow and takes patience. (my lord...guys complain about 6 inning games for events as being "too long"...that's the world we live in)
For us franchise die-hards who want to play for the experience, it's great. But that paradigm just doesn't work for the masses who play to get that virtual pat on the back for every little thing they do. SDS could add in enhanced scouting, player development, stadium creation, fix all the bugs, do everything we want them to do. But none of those things change the paradigm...you're still playing JUST for the experience, and not a reward.
What it comes down to...people are playing sports games to scratch a different itch..and Franchise doesn't scratch it any more...and nothing short of a complete paradigm shift that us "old guys" will loathe (cough...cough...March to October) will change that.
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My other point (more in your favor) is this is also why online franchise modes dropped out of favor in a bunch of games around the same time as well. If you're taking a mode that's already not played much, it drops even more with online franchise. Now, my point there is the same it would be for franchise mode proper in that the people who do get into those modes are some of your strongest supporters and champions for the game, which I think regardless of every sale counting for the same in the bank account, those people matter more because they are the ones who spread the message more. If you make them happy, the broader discussion around your game also improves and gets better.
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Exactly, a better franchise mode with more options, flexibility and immersion has more people playing it for longer.
My other point (more in your favor) is this is also why online franchise modes dropped out of favor in a bunch of games around the same time as well. If you're taking a mode that's already not played much, it drops even more with online franchise. Now, my point there is the same it would be for franchise mode proper in that the people who do get into those modes are some of your strongest supporters and champions for the game, which I think regardless of every sale counting for the same in the bank account, those people matter more because they are the ones who spread the message more. If you make them happy, the broader discussion around your game also improves and gets better.
And these folks have historically been the ones that provide huge added value/content after release by working on rosters, sliders, and creating players. By not interesting these types of gamers, the out-of-the-box game has to stand on its own merits a bit more. This title would definitely not have been all it has been were it not for OSFM and so forth in past iterations.
It seems like everyone wants the depth of Out of The Park Baseball but instead of playing that game they opt instead for MLB The Show and the only two reasons that I can come up with are
I don't really play any other console sports games so I am not sure if any of them have the in depth franchise modes of more stat driven text based games.
It seems like everyone wants the depth of Out of The Park Baseball but instead of playing that game they opt instead for MLB The Show and the only two reasons that I can come up with are
I don't really play any other console sports games so I am not sure if any of them have the in depth franchise modes of more stat driven text based games.
The ability to actually play the game isn't really some minor reason though is it? It's a pretty massive difference and makes OOTP and MLBTS pretty much different genres of games. (that's coming from someone who has been playing Championship manager since 1998)
I don't think anyone realistically expects OOTP levels of depth to franchise, they merely expect significantly more depth than it had 10 years ago, which isn't a huge or unreasonable ask.
It seems like everyone wants the depth of Out of The Park Baseball but instead of playing that game they opt instead for MLB The Show and the only two reasons that I can come up with are
I don't really play any other console sports games so I am not sure if any of them have the in depth franchise modes of more stat driven text based games.
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First of all, I actually like MLB 19's franchise mode overall; when using SDS rosters, it's very challenging, has few bugs, and is robust.
That said, what do I want moving forward? I want improved scouting, I want overhauled progression, I'd love to see a lot of the relationship stuff from RTTS tied into Morale (for user and CPU controlled teams). I'd love to see a full expansion/retraction module with customizable divisions and a slew of generic stadiums that can be customized. (This is the "I acknowledge it's not likely to happen" list)
On a simple level, I want the roster to just have the correct minor league options available for each player. I want roster logic adjusted to compensate for this new full minors roster. I want to see more storylines discussed in-game (trade rumors, players unhappy, injuries, guys coming off IL) that is tied into the actual franchise data. I want some QoL fixes to make things a bit easier. (This is the "I'd be thrilled if you just did this stuff" list)
Here's the thing....even if they added ALL of this stuff (even my "not likely to happen" list), I honestly don't think it would move the needle for mode popularity. Franchise would still continue to be a 'backwater' mode in the game.
The only way to get more people to play franchise mode would be to a) remove complexity, b) make development based strictly on user actions (like RTTS - just for every player), and c) make it take 1/100 of the time to complete a season, and d) stub-based rewards based on how you finish the season relative to your roster (which can be used for franchise upgrades and cosmetics). I can hear all of you diehards grimacing as you read this - I don't love it either. But, that's why SDS didn't tear down franchise mode but rather created MtO.
I want to play every pitch for 162 games using a complete clean screen. I want ratings to dominate outcomes. I want to see flawed players be present (and useful in limited roles) like in real life. I want stories to develop organically based on what happens in the game.
...and I've accepted fully that I am in the minority. It IS a tough pill to swallow at first, but I'm much happier because of it. Doesn't mean I don't want more, it just means that my expectations are tempered.
That said, what do I want moving forward? I want improved scouting, I want overhauled progression, I'd love to see a lot of the relationship stuff from RTTS tied into Morale (for user and CPU controlled teams). I'd love to see a full expansion/retraction module with customizable divisions and a slew of generic stadiums that can be customized. (This is the "I acknowledge it's not likely to happen" list)
On a simple level, I want the roster to just have the correct minor league options available for each player. I want roster logic adjusted to compensate for this new full minors roster. I want to see more storylines discussed in-game (trade rumors, players unhappy, injuries, guys coming off IL) that is tied into the actual franchise data. I want some QoL fixes to make things a bit easier. (This is the "I'd be thrilled if you just did this stuff" list)
Here's the thing....even if they added ALL of this stuff (even my "not likely to happen" list), I honestly don't think it would move the needle for mode popularity. Franchise would still continue to be a 'backwater' mode in the game.
The only way to get more people to play franchise mode would be to a) remove complexity, b) make development based strictly on user actions (like RTTS - just for every player), and c) make it take 1/100 of the time to complete a season, and d) stub-based rewards based on how you finish the season relative to your roster (which can be used for franchise upgrades and cosmetics). I can hear all of you diehards grimacing as you read this - I don't love it either. But, that's why SDS didn't tear down franchise mode but rather created MtO.
I want to play every pitch for 162 games using a complete clean screen. I want ratings to dominate outcomes. I want to see flawed players be present (and useful in limited roles) like in real life. I want stories to develop organically based on what happens in the game.
...and I've accepted fully that I am in the minority. It IS a tough pill to swallow at first, but I'm much happier because of it. Doesn't mean I don't want more, it just means that my expectations are tempered.
But die hard franchise fans are not asking for the wheel to be reinvented. Like every team in the game carries a 12 man bullpen (which is gonna be a disaster if its not fixed with 26 man rosters) while every mlb team runs with a 13 man bullpen. And even if you manually control the teams and make them have a 13 man bullpen, they basically wont use one of the players.
I'm not talking about 'franchise guys'....what I'm talking about is in response to a statement that if "they improve franchise mode, more people would play". I disagree with that statement because, IMO, the types of changes they would have to make to draw the masses away from RTTS/DD and into franchise would be massive (and antithetical to what us 'franchise guys' really want).
BTW...love the hyperbole!!
It seems like everyone wants the depth of Out of The Park Baseball but instead of playing that game they opt instead for MLB The Show and the only two reasons that I can come up with are
I don't really play any other console sports games so I am not sure if any of them have the in depth franchise modes of more stat driven text based games.
I honestly thought your post was trying to be satirical at first. I actually had to go back and read it again to make sure you weren’t trying to be funny.
Being able to play actual games is a huge difference and not the “minor” difference you seem to indicate it is. What OOTP does is second to none, but without the ability to actually play games your basically staring at words on a screen.
What you DD guys don’t seem to understand is most of us franchise guys are not asking for OOTP level of immersion. Most of us franchise guys are older and don’t have the time we used to invest in this game. All we are really asking for are simple quality of life changes like a scouting system that actually makes sense and works. Right now the draft is a crap shoot, where 90% of the scouting reports aren’t even accurate. The ability for the AI to make smart roster decisions. Too many small market teams sign big name free agents That they would never be able to convince to come to town. The ability to have some kind of control over profits and losses. Right now there is no difference between running a team like the A’s as opposed to the yankees. The player morale. Quite frankly it’s broken. Players have no personality.
Sure. There are a lot of people championing for relocation/stadium creator, but 80% of franchise fans would stop “complaining” with simple quality of life changes. I think the thing that bugs me about you DD guys is you feel just because the mode is important to you, it shouldn’t be important to anyone else. This game means different things to different people yet every year like clockwork you guys jump into franchise discussions to give us to your two cents
Being able to play actual games is a huge difference and not the “minor” difference you seem to indicate it is. What OOTP does is second to none, but without the ability to actually play games your basically staring at words on a screen.
What you DD guys don’t seem to understand is most of us franchise guys are not asking for OOTP level of immersion. Most of us franchise guys are older and don’t have the time we used to invest in this game. All we are really asking for are simple quality of life changes like a scouting system that actually makes sense and works. Right now the draft is a crap shoot, where 90% of the scouting reports aren’t even accurate. The ability for the AI to make smart roster decisions. Too many small market teams sign big name free agents That they would never be able to convince to come to town. The ability to have some kind of control over profits and losses. Right now there is no difference between running a team like the A’s as opposed to the yankees. The player morale. Quite frankly it’s broken. Players have no personality.
Sure. There are a lot of people championing for relocation/stadium creator, but 80% of franchise fans would stop “complaining” with simple quality of life changes. I think the thing that bugs me about you DD guys is you feel just because the mode is important to you, it shouldn’t be important to anyone else. This game means different things to different people yet every year like clockwork you guys jump into franchise discussions to give us to your two cents
Very well said.
But Franchise guys NEVER ever do that in DD threads, now do you?
...just sayin'.... :)
...just sayin'.... :)
They do. Fair enough lol. We are a jealous crowd. We don’t like seeing our ex doing all of the things with her new boyfriend that we wish she would have done with us 🤣🤣🤣
...just sayin'.... :)
Not me I stay out of those threads they don't interest me so I whinge and complain about DD in franchise threads, no point starting fire in someone else's yard. only do it in your own with your friends, that is the way I see it.
what is most irritating is when people say if you don't like it don't play it or buy the digital cards it doesn't effect you... well it does because all the $$$$ is going to that mode BECAUSE people are doing that other modes like franchise are becoming secondary.
having said all that this year my complaining isn't as much as the last 2 years because I think full minors is huge and the re branding is a nice start that I hope continues into the PS5 era.
Being able to play actual games is a huge difference and not the “minor” difference you seem to indicate it is. What OOTP does is second to none, but without the ability to actually play games your basically staring at words on a screen.
What you DD guys don’t seem to understand is most of us franchise guys are not asking for OOTP level of immersion. Most of us franchise guys are older and don’t have the time we used to invest in this game. All we are really asking for are simple quality of life changes like a scouting system that actually makes sense and works. Right now the draft is a crap shoot, where 90% of the scouting reports aren’t even accurate. The ability for the AI to make smart roster decisions. Too many small market teams sign big name free agents That they would never be able to convince to come to town. The ability to have some kind of control over profits and losses. Right now there is no difference between running a team like the A’s as opposed to the yankees. The player morale. Quite frankly it’s broken. Players have no personality.
Sure. There are a lot of people championing for relocation/stadium creator, but 80% of franchise fans would stop “complaining” with simple quality of life changes. I think the thing that bugs me about you DD guys is you feel just because the mode is important to you, it shouldn’t be important to anyone else. This game means different things to different people yet every year like clockwork you guys jump into franchise discussions to give us to your two cents
Did he say he was a DD guy?
He goes in Franchise threads every year since ‘18, and advocates for DD. Then talks about how franchise players like to complain, and how he’s “baffled” we want more out of the mode when it brings in no money. I don’t have any problem with him personally but he does it every year. Check his history if you want.
Unless players return to Franchise mode en masse the only way they’ll distribute resources evenly is if the features being added or fixes being made are common to all modes. This is what needs to happen going forward - DD and card collecting should no longer be a seperate thing to the rest of the game. Yes there obviously needs to be distinct gameplay modes but everything needs to be integrated.
Otherwise the player base will continue to be an ‘us and them’, casuals will migrate towards DD (because that’s what gets the promotion all through the year) and as a result Franchise, M2O, H2H and even RTTS (despite its current popularity) will end up with a combined total of 10% of the total budget.
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