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NBA 2K20 Player Ratings Revealed with New Screenshots (Constantly Updated)

NBA 2K20

NBA 2K20 Player Ratings Revealed with New Screenshots (Constantly Updated)

2K will be releasing player ratings for their upcoming game, NBA 2K20, through an interactive live broadcast for the first time in the franchise’s history. The show will be live-streamed tonight on Twitter at 8pm ET and will feature a panel headlined by NBA 2K20 cover athlete Anthony Davis alongside 2K favorites Ronnie2K, Alexis Morgan, and Chris Manning.

Watch it live here.

The broadcast will highlight the top-rated players across various categories according to the NBA 2K analysis. The program will also include detailed analysis about how the ratings are created, why some players made the cut, and which players have the most potential this season.

Historically, 2K player ratings have been a closely kept secret distributed to players individually on social media. Tonight’s broadcast gives viewers a look behind the scenes at how the ratings are determined and what they mean to the NBA players.

We will update this post as NBA 2K20 player ratings are revealed.

UPDATE: Here are the NBA 2K20 player ratings that were revealed, along with quite a few screenshots.

Top 20 NBA 2K20 Players

  • 20. Blake Griffin (Overall 88)
  • 19. Rudy Gobert (Overall 88)
  • 18. Donovan Mitchell (Overall 88)
  • 17. Kemba Walker (Overall 88)
  • 16. Jimmy Butler (Overall 88)
  • 15. Karl-Anthony Towns (Overall 89)
  • 14. Klay Thompson (Overall 89)
  • 13. Russell Westbrook (Overall 90)
  • 12. Nikola Jokic (Overall 90)
  • 11. Kyrie Irving (Overall 91)
  • 10. Joel Embiid (Overall 91)
  • 9. Damian Lillard (Overall 92)
  • 8. Paul George (Overall 93)
  • 7. Anthony Davis (Overall 94)
  • 6. Steph Curry (Overall 95)
  • 5. James Harden (Overall 96)
  • 4. Kevin Durant (Overall 96)
  • 3. Giannis Antetokounmpo (Overall 96)
  • 2. Kawhi Leonard (Overall 97)
  • 1. LeBron James (Overall 97)

Other NBA 2K20 Player Ratings

  • Mike Conley (Overall 87)
  • Bradley Beal (Overall 87)
  • Andre Drummond (Overall 86)
  • Clint Capela (Overall 85)
  • Kyle Lowry (Overall 85)
  • Jayson Tatum (Overall 85)
  • Trae Young (Overall 85)
  • John Collins (Overall 84)
  • Kyle Kuzma (Overall 84)
  • Montrezl Harrell (Overall 83)
  • Danilo Gallinari (Overall 83)
  • Marc Gasol (Overall 82)
  • Jaren Jackson Jr. (Overall 82)
  • Serge Ibaka (Overall 81)
  • Hassan Whiteside (Overall 81)
  • Derrick Rose (Overall 80)
  • Ja Morant (Overall 79)
  • Terrance Ross (Overall 79)
  • Garry Harris (Overall 79)
  • Bam Adebayo (Overall 79)
  • Lonzo Ball (Overall 79)
  • Evan Fournier (Overall 78)
  • Bobby Portis (Overall 78)
  • Eric Gordon (Overall 78)
  • Ricky Rubio (Overall 78)
  • Nicolas Batum (Overall 77)
  • Jarrett Culver (Overall 77)
  • Monte Morris (Overall 77)
  • Miles Bridges (Overall 76)
  • Willy Hernangomez (Overall 76)
  • Boban Marjanovic (Overall 75)
  • Damyean Dotson (Overall 75)
  • Juancho Hernangomez (Overall 74)
  • Joakim Noah (Overall 74)
  • Troy Brown (Overall 73)
  • Brandon Clarke (Overall 73)
  • Sekou Doumbouya (Overall 73)
  • Frank Ntilikina (Overall 73)
  • Nassir Little (Overall 73)
  • Ian Mahinmi (Overall 73)
  • Anfernee Simons (Overall 72)
  • Cameron Johnson (Overall 72)
  • Grant Williams (Overall 72)
  • Chuma Okeke (Overall 72)
  • Alize Johnson (Overall 71)
  • Daniel Gafford (Overall 71)
  • Elie Okobo (Overall 71)
  • Dylan Windler (Overal 71)
  • Tony Bradley Jr. (Overall 70)
  • Darius Bazley (Overall 70)

Top 5 Rookies

  • 5. Darius Garland (Overall 77)
  • 4. De’Andre Hunter (Overall 77)
  • 3. R.J. Barrett (Overall 78)
  • 2. Ja Morant (Overall 79)
  • 1. Zion Williamson (Overall 81)

Top 5 Shooters – 3 Pt. Rating

  • 5. Buddy Hield (90)
  • 4. J.J. Redick (90)
  • 3. Joe Harris (94)
  • 2. Klay Thompson (97)
  • 1. Steph Curry (99)

Top 5 Bigs

  • 5. Rudy Gobert (Overall 88)
  • 4. Karl-Anthony Towns (Overall 89)
  • 3. Nikola Jokic (Overall 90)
  • 2. Joel Embiid (Overall 91)
  • 1. Anthony Davis (Overall 94)
407 Comments

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Discussion
  1. If there's one thing we've learned its that rookie ratings should be high 70s max and then allow updates to reward guys who actually perform. Now we've broken the 80 threshold?? YIKES.
    I like Zion but we don't even know if he can get his shot/create in the NBA or if he'll be a guy who'll depend on good PG play to score. Look at Fultz, Ball, Josh Jackson...you just never know how guys are going to progress.
    Just not a fan of making guys impact rookies before we get to see how they can contribute in the NBA. Feels like marketing fluff.
    Kushmir
    If there's one thing we've learned its that rookie ratings should be high 70s max and then allow updates to reward guys who actually perform. Now we've broken the 80 threshold?? YIKES.
    I like Zion but we don't even know if he can get his shot/create in the NBA or if he'll be a guy who'll need good PG play. Look at Fultz, Ball, Josh Jackson...you just never know how guys are going to progress.
    Just not a fan of making guys impact rookies before we get to see how they can contribute in the NBA. Feels like marketing fluff.

    He’s the most hyped rookie since LeBron. Of course he will get the benefit of doubt.
    lvl
    He’s the most hyped rookie since LeBron. Of course he will get the benefit of doubt.

    Everybody's the most hyped rookie since Lebron ...thats how HYPE works. And for the record none of these guys has been close to LBJ's impact. NOT ONE. Only KD and Blake had production that was close but SEA sucked and Blake sat with an injury 1st year and wasn't a "real rookie" per se. AD was hyped too--he showed flashes but you wouldn't have rated him higher than high 70s after his 1st year. Hell, Evan Turner, Wiggins and Parker were supposed to be the next coming too...remember? And lets not forget Brandon Ingram and Kris Dunn.
    J_Posse
    LOL
    I see now LeBron is getting the obligatory 'Kobe Bryant treatment' from 2K as he declines.
    If you think LeBron is good as Kawhi or better than Giannis, well I don't know what to say....
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

    LeBron is definitely still better than Kawhi, Even with the regular season coasting
    Wow at the disrespect for Jokic, he was easily a top 10 player last season.
    20/10/7, 26.3 PER
    He then elevated that into
    25/13/8, 29.3 PER, 11.8(!!!!) BPM
    In the playoffs. Like I said, EASILY a top 10 player last season.
    NINJAK2
    Kush- as a fellow sixer fan I would like that you never mention Evan Turner's name again....lol

    My bad playboy...i'm just saying tho . Turner was supposed to be the most "pro ready" and had a "killer instinct" like Kobe...remember that? Turns out he had a decent handle, was a solid mid-range shooter, couldn't create space and his one elite trait was rebounding the ball. He was the guy you wanted running your 2nd team. NOT YOUR STAR.
    Scouts tried to tell us Wall, Turner and Favors were all gonna be all-stars lol.
    REALITY: Turner's career apex was coming off the bench for BOS in 2015.
    MackZillaTV
    LeBron is definitely still better than Kawhi, Even with the regular season coasting

    Right. So sick of this “decline” talk. Before his injury last year he was having one of the best seasons of his entire career
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Kushmir
    My bad playboy...i'm just saying tho. Was supposed to be the most "pro ready" and had a "killer instinct" like Kobe...remember that? Turns out he had a decent handle, was a solid mid-range shooter, couldn't create space and his one elite trait was rebounding the ball.
    Scouts tried to tell us Wall, Turner and Favors were all gonna be all-stars lol.
    REALITY: Turner's career apex was coming off the bench for BOS in 2015.
    Was Wall not an All-Star or am I missing something...?
    Favors was on track to become one, he was a borderline All-Star at 23 before he got hurt. When he came back fully healthy, Gobert had usurped him as a starting center and he was forced to play out of position at a lesser role.
    Turner I have no argument, he's bad
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    MackZillaTV
    LeBron is definitely still better than Kawhi, Even with the regular season coasting
    No, he's not. Nephew isn't the same level of help defender as in San Antonio, but he's still an elite one - on - one defender (probably the best when he's "locked in") and can score every way possible.
    LeBron still has an incredibly high IQ, but he's become a lazy and less agile defender. He's clearly lost a step or step in a half athletically. He's so smart, savvy and strong (like Leonard) that it hasn't fully hurt him (statistically).
    The only thing LeBron has on him is passing/playmaking, but Leonard has surpassed or matched LeBron everywhere else.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    Kushmir
    Everybody's the most hyped rookie since Lebron ...thats how HYPE works. And for the record none of these guys has been close to LBJ's impact. NOT ONE. Only KD and Blake had production that was close but SEA sucked and Blake sat with an injury his rookie year and wasn't a "real rookie" per se. AD was hyped too--he showed flashes but you wouldn't have rated him higher than high 70s after his 1st year. Hell, Evan Turner, Wiggins and Parker were supposed to be the next coming too...remember? And lets not forget Brandon Ingram and Kris Dunn.

    Doncic has lived up to the hype so far
    J_Posse
    No, he's not. Nephew isn't the same level of help defender as in San Antonio, but he's still an elite one - on - one defender (probably the best when he's "locked in") and can score every way possible.
    LeBron still has an incredibly high IQ, but he's become a lazy and less agile defender. He's clearly lost a step or step in a half athletically. He's so smart, savvy and strong (like Leonard) that it hasn't fully hurt him (statistically).
    The only thing LeBron has on him is passing/playmaking, but Leonard has surpassed or matched LeBron everywhere else.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    Man it's like Kobe stans defending him in 2013 all over again
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    GudStuffzz
    Wow at the disrespect for Jokic, he was easily a top 10 player last season.
    20/10/7, 26.3 PER
    He then elevated that into
    25/13/8, 29.3 PER, 11.8(!!!!) BPM
    In the playoffs. Like I said, EASILY a top 10 player last season.

    Dude, he's 12th in these rankings and one overall point away from being in the Top 10. That's not "disrespect". You're splitting hairs here. Plus if most people were starting a team today and needed a Center they'd take Embiid over Jokic 9 times out of 10. So I'm not sure who else you'd drop out of that top 10 so you could slide Jokic in.
    Don't get me wrong here: I think Jokic is incredible. But being a "top 12" guy on a 2k rating list really isn't much different than being a "top 10 guy". In fact, it's no difference at all when you're talking about 1 overall point in 2k. The game where overalls mean absolutely nothing when you're higher than an 88.
    BA2929
    Dude, he's 12th in these rankings and one overall point away from being in the Top 10. That's not "disrespect". You're splitting hairs here. Plus if most people were starting a team today and needed a Center they'd take Embiid over Jokic 9 times out of 10. So I'm not sure who else you'd drop out of that top 10 so you could slide Jokic in.
    Don't get me wrong here: I think Jokic is incredible. But being a "top 12" guy on a 2k rating list really isn't much different than being a "top 10 guy". In fact, it's no difference at all when you're talking about 1 overall point in 2k. The game where overalls mean absolutely nothing when you're higher than an 88.

    It's impossible to talk a person off of the ledge when they feel like their guy has been done wrong. With these rating and the Madden rating coming out today, "disrespect" is definitely word of the day.
    BA2929
    Dude, he's 12th in these rankings and one overall point away from being in the Top 10. That's not "disrespect". You're splitting hairs here. Plus if most people were starting a team today and needed a Center they'd take Embiid over Jokic 9 times out of 10. So I'm not sure who else you'd drop out of that top 10 so you could slide Jokic in.
    Don't get me wrong here: I think Jokic is incredible. But being a "top 12" guy on a 2k rating list really isn't much different than being a "top 10 guy". In fact, it's no difference at all when you're talking about 1 overall point in 2k. The game where overalls mean absolutely nothing when you're higher than an 88.

    False, I'd take Jokic over Embiid and there sure is a hell a lot of others who would. Jokic outperformed Embiid this season and blew him away this playoffs. I don't know how many Denver games you watched but Jokic is the cog to that offense. Then you factor in that his advanced metrics were better than Embiid and I don't understand how you take Embiid "9/10" times over Jokic. And looking at that top 10 I'd put him in over Embiid and Lillard
    testorz

    And to add on to it, Giannis is definitely better than LeBron athletically (tbh he might athletically be the best ever) and Giannis' defense is definitely better.
    LeBron just shooting and probably IQ on Giannis.
    testorz
    Prove it then. Cmon Kawhi is better defensively I'll give him that. Kawhi always had great players surrounding him. Lebron made Mo William's an all-star one year. Averaged a trip double in the finals. Has the most points in the playoffs. Accolade wise Lebron is still the better player. Kawhi just won a ring with KD missing. Like that didnt really look good on his resume in my eyes sort of like the 2015 Warriors winning without playing Kyrie and Love. 🤷🏿*♂️🤷🏿*♂️🤷🏿*♂️
    Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app
    itsmb8
    And to add on to it, Giannis is definitely better than LeBron athletically (tbh he might athletically be the best ever) and Giannis' defense is definitely better.
    LeBron just shooting and probably IQ on Giannis.

    Your impact on the game dramatically declines on offense versus "great" defenders when you can't shoot or space the floor.
    LeBron is definitely a better playmaker than Giannis. With shooting being the most important fundamental aspect on offense today, I don't think LeBron runs into those same roadblocks as Giannis in the PS either (ie. TO eliminating the drive by collapsing the paint).
    The recency effect here is insane. LeBron is no less than top two and NOT behind Giannis.
    ClutchCity
    Prove it then. Cmon Kawhi is better defensively I'll give him that. Kawhi always had great players surrounding him. Lebron made Mo William's an all-star one year. Averaged a trip double in the finals. Has the most points in the playoffs. Accolade wise Lebron is still the better player. Kawhi just won a ring with KD missing. Like that didnt really look good on his resume in my eyes sort of like the 2015 Warriors winning without playing Kyrie and Love. 🤷🏿*♂️🤷🏿*♂️🤷🏿*♂️
    Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app
    Why does LeBron's past accolades matter when determining his present standing? And, last time I checked LeBron "needed" great players around him to win anything in the NBA.
    SlimFast_GymRat
    Your impact on the game dramatically declines on offense versus "great" defenders when you can't shoot or space the floor.
    LeBron is definitely a better playmaker than Giannis. With shooting being the most important fundamental aspect on offense today, I don't think LeBron runs into those same roadblocks as Giannis in the PS either (ie. TO eliminating the drive by collapsing the paint).
    The recency effect here is insane. LeBron is no less than top two and NOT behind Giannis.
    Yes, LeBron is a better playmaker but Giannis is more athletic, a better defender, rebounder and equal scorer (although with a lot less range).
    This argument is similar to when young LeBron couldn't usurp Kobe (on similar lists) cause of Kobe's past.
    Recency bias, my ***. One guy is a two - way monster and the other coasts on defense, can't make the playoffs and his reputation is keeping him propped up (on lists like this).
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    GudStuffzz
    False, I'd take Jokic over Embiid and there sure is a hell a lot of others who would. Jokic outperformed Embiid this season and blew him away this playoffs.

    You guys are hilarious. Until such a time as defense doesn’t matter this argument is laughable. I like Jokic but outperformed? Cmon dude—seriously?
    Jojo avgd 27.5, 13.6 and 2 blks vs Jokics 20.1, 10.8 and 0.7 blks. Unless we’re in bizarro world the gap between them is pretty clear.
    Embiid’s at the level now where good defenders like Gasol need help (Toronto doubled him almost instantly after Game 3) and he STILL gets good numbers. That impact (and what he does on D) almost can’t be quantified.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    LeBrons defense bet not still be in the 90s. Find another way to boost his ratings.
    KD should be the same rating as Kawhi and LeBron or better. Still the best in the league to me.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm fine with the top 5 rookie ratings. It's not like they can't adjust if Zion doesn't live up to the full potential.
    I think it's fair to say if LeBron was 100% last season it was probably after the A.D. trade debacle and after that the rest of the team just wasn't into and he really just coasted. This coming from a guy who is NOT a LeBron fan
    However, I think Kawhi proved enough in the playoffs to be rated just as high and Giannis was the well deserved MVP. I saw just bump Giannis up to 97 and see what happens. Again, it's not like they can't adjust accordingly
    testorz

    You’re smoking dust. Kawhi is literally just better at defense and outside shooting. LeBron is a better rebounder, playmaker, scorer, and has the higher IQ. Bron just averaged 28/8/8 and y’all treating him like Post-Achilles Kobe. Y’all gotta chill wit that ��
    For the past few years he’s just been coasting defensively in the regular season and it’s been obvious AND he had a groin injury this year. He didn’t have a really good team like Kawhi that consistently won even when sat out for “load management”. Cut it out
    J_Posse
    Why does LeBron's past accolades matter when determining his present standing? And, last time I checked LeBron "needed" great players around him to win anything in the NBA.Yes, LeBron is a better playmaker but Giannis is more athletic, a better defender, rebounder and equal scorer (although with a lot less range).
    This argument is similar to when young LeBron couldn't usurp Kobe (on similar lists) cause of Kobe's past.
    Recency bias, my ***. One guy is a two - way monster and the other coasts on defense, can't make the playoffs and his reputation is keeping him propped up (on lists like this).
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

    Put Kawhi on the Lakers and they’re definitely missing the playoffs. Ingram, Zo, and Hart being hurt and Kawhi having to sit out to help his body would’ve been a recipe for disaster. Marc, Kyle, and Paskal are better than pretty much every Laker besides Bron. They had a good record without Kawhi
    J_Posse

    Recency bias, my ***. One guy is a two - way monster and the other coasts on defense, can't make the playoffs and his reputation is keeping him propped up (on lists like this).
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

    I'm quiet on everything, but the can't make the playoff piece? Lol. Man missed the playoffs one year, when he missed nearly 30 games and all of a sudden he can't make the playoffs (and nah, this isn't counting his past accomplishments. Going to the NBA FINALS a year ago isn't that long ago).
    Digression aside. The ratings are fine. Just talking points.
    JazzMan
    Was Wall not an All-Star or am I missing something...?
    Favors was on track to become one, he was a borderline All-Star at 23 before he got hurt. When he came back fully healthy, Gobert had usurped him as a starting center and he was forced to play out of position at a lesser role.

    Disagree. Favors was certainly a solid player (and a very good defender) but wasn’t seriously considered for the ASG. All star level talent? Sure. But a guy who scouts thought would be a perennial all-star/get 20-10 in his sleep ended up falling far below that. My point is analysts were 1 for 3 with the Wall, Turner, "guaranteed to be All-Stars" Favors trio.
    Evan Turner wasn’t bad. He’s just a solid starter who got miscast as a top 5 talent. He dominated bench players when BOS gave him their key bench role in 2015.
    J_Posse
    Why does LeBron's past accolades matter when determining his present standing? And, last time I checked LeBron "needed" great players around him to win anything in the NBA.Yes, LeBron is a better playmaker but Giannis is more athletic, a better defender, rebounder and equal scorer (although with a lot less range).
    This argument is similar to when young LeBron couldn't usurp Kobe (on similar lists) cause of Kobe's past.
    Recency bias, my ***. One guy is a two - way monster and the other coasts on defense, can't make the playoffs and his reputation is keeping him propped up (on lists like this).
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

    “Can’t make the playoffs”
    “Recency bias my ass”
    Yikes man. Lebron was on a god awful team last year AND injured for a good chunk of the season. Before that? Oh, he just led two separate teams to 8 straight NBA finals.
    You have some of the worst basketball takes I’ve ever seen.
    EccentricMeat

    Yikes man. Lebron was on a god awful team last year AND injured for a good chunk of the season. Before that? Oh, he just led two separate teams to 8 straight NBA finals.

    This. Make the case for Kawhi without the silly takes. Lebron had that team 3rd in the west before he got hurt. Possibly one of his best performances ever....”can’t go to the playoffs” should literally never be a critique you make of Lebron—context matters.
    I do think Kawhi and Giannis should be rated higher than Lebron but anybody thinking 28-8-8 is washed or declining is smoking some good dope. If Lebron can stay healthy I'm sure he'll prove why that rating is justified.
    MackZillaTV
    LeBron is definitely still better than Kawhi, Even with the regular season coasting

    Coasting? I remember him “activating playoff mode” then proceeding to get smacked around by the Western conference bottom feeders and miss the playoffs.
    ksuttonjr76
    And this is why I stay out conversations about overalls...what's the point?

    Usually I do too but sometimes its symbolic. We'd all have eye-rolled if anyone was rated higher than MJ from 91-98 and deservedly so. No PF should have been rated higher than Duncan during his prime. I get that some folks don't like Lebron but the guy has exceeded his already-elite career numbers (27-7-7) for the last two yrs. Its not like his production has dropped. I dont believe in legacy numbers either and Kawhi is an elite player but a great run in the playoffs and a title can't dethrone Lebron just yet.
    The good news is Stauff is "one of us" and if Lebron slips it'll be reflected in the ratings in short order....just like his FT rating was.
    But a rookie rated 81? WOW. You guys will probably remember I had a HUGE issue with Fultz/Lonzo having 80 ratings when 2K18 dropped. Rookies need to EARN ratings that high a la Luka.
    Hustle Westbrook
    Coasting? I remember him “activating playoff mode” then proceeding to get smacked around by the Western conference bottom feeders and miss the playoffs.

    C'mon now...you're "mis-remembering" at best. The game he got hurt they blew out the Warriors by 20 (Christmas day) and were 3rd in the west (20-14) at the time. We can't have these convos if you guys just gonna make stuff up lol....and I HATE the Lakers.
    https://www.nba.com/article/2018/12/25/lebron-james-locker-room-possible-groin-injury
    https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2019_games.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuxVz7JUaJA
    I never got the point in arguing over raw overall numbers. I see people getting mad on social media about it lol.
    Anyone playing 2K for a while knows that individual ratings, badges, height, and animations > raw overall #s. This is why Hedo Turkoglu was torturing people for months on 2K19.
    LeBron might have the highest overall but a players like Durant and Giannis will be better. LeBron has a funky release and one of the worst layup packages in the game, mean while both are taller while Durant has a quick release and Giannis has one of the glitchiest crossovers and layup packages in the game.
    Kushmir
    C'mon now...you're "mis-remembering" at best. The game he got hurt they blew out the Warriors by 20 (Christmas day) and were 3rd in the west (20-14) at the time. We can't have these convos if you guys just gonna make stuff up lol....and I HATE the Lakers.
    https://www.nba.com/article/2018/12/25/lebron-james-locker-room-possible-groin-injury
    https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2019_games.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuxVz7JUaJA

    Just speculating at the moment, but it seems like everybody wants to be 'first' at proclaiming something. Yes, in a few years LeBron won't be the best player, but his track record is longer with more accolades. Lets not forget prior to the injury, there was no regression statistically, he WAS in the MVP discussion and had a weak team in playoff contention.
    As of right now, LeBron IS the best player in the NBA. He missed the playoffs one time and was hindered the second half of the season. Kawhi has a great postseason, and everybody forgets his early season dominance due to everybody getting caught up in the now.
    Remember when Giannis was having a dominate regular season? By the end of the season, the general consensus was he was the best player in the NBA (Hence MVP Award). And then Kawhi has a great postseason, now he's the best player right?!
    Prior to the second half of the season, who was the better player: Lebron, Giannis or Kawhi?
    Real 2K Insider's Dynamic Duos
    96.0 Lakers (LeBron 97/SF - Davis 95/C)
    93.0 Rockets (Harden 95/SF - Westbrook 91/PG)
    92.5 Nets (Kyrie 93/PG - Durant 92/PF) - KD is 98/SF, Team 95.5 that way
    91.5 Warriors (Curry 93/PG - Russell 88/SG)
    91.0 Clippers (Kawhi 94/SF - George 88/PF) - PG is 93/SF, Team 93.5 that way
    90.5 Bucks (Giannis 95/PF - Middleton 86/SF)
    90.5 Sixers (Embiid 92/C - Tobias 89/SF)
    90.0 Blazers (Lillard 92/PG - Nurkic 88/C)
    88.5 Jazz (Gobert 89/C - Conley 88/PG)
    88.5 Thunder (Paul 91/PG - Adams 86/C)
    88.5 Wolves (Towns 94/C - Teague 83/PG)
    88.0 Nuggets (Jokic 92/C - Millsap 84/PF)
    88.0 Spurs (DeRozan 89/SF - Aldridge 87/C)
    87.5 Mavs (Doncic 89/SF - Porzingis 86/PF)
    87.5 Pistons (Griffin 88/PF - Drummond 87/C)
    87.5 Pacers (Oladipo 89/SG - Sabonis 86/PF)
    87.0 Celtics (Kemba 89/PG - Tatum 85/SF)
    87.0 Wizards (Wall 86/PG - Beal 88/SG)
    87.0 Suns (Booker 89/SG - Ayton 85/C)
    86.5 Raptors (Lowry 87/PG - Siakam 86/PF)
    86.5 Pelicans (Holiday 88/PG - Zion 85/PF)
    86.5 Magic (Vucevic 89/C - Augustin 84/PG)
    86.0 Heat (Butler 90/SF - Olynyk 82/PF)
    86.0 Grizzlies (Jonas 88/C / Anderson 84/SF)
    84.5 Kings (Fox 86/PG - Hield 83/SG)
    84.0 Cavs (Love 86/PF - Thompson 82/C)
    83.5 Hawks (Collins 84/PF - Young 83/PG)
    83.5 Bulls (LaVine 85/SG - Markkanen 82/PF)
    82.5 Knicks (Randle 83/PF - Barrett 82/SF)
    81.0 Hornets (Batum 81/SF - Zeller 81/C)
    West
    96.0 Lakers (LeBron 97/SF - Davis 95/C)
    93.0 Rockets (Harden 95/SF - Westbrook 91/PG)
    91.5 Warriors (Curry 93/PG - Russell 88/SG)
    91.0 Clippers (Kawhi 94/SF - George 88/PF) - PG is 93/SF, Team 93.5 that way
    90.0 Blazers (Lillard 92/PG - Nurkic 88/C)
    88.5 Jazz (Gobert 89/C - Conley 88/PG)
    88.5 Thunder (Paul 91/PG - Adams 86/C)
    88.5 Wolves (Towns 94/C - Teague 83/PG)
    88.0 Nuggets (Jokic 92/C - Millsap 84/PF)
    88.0 Spurs (DeRozan 89/SF - Aldridge 87/C)
    87.5 Mavs (Doncic 89/SF - Porzingis 86/PF)
    87.0 Suns (Booker 89/SG - Ayton 85/C)
    86.5 Pelicans (Holiday 88/PG - Zion 85/PF)
    86.0 Grizzlies (Jonas 88/C / Anderson 84/SF)
    84.5 Kings (Fox 86/PG - Hield 83/SG)
    East
    92.5 Nets (Kyrie 93/PG - Durant 92/PF) - KD is 98/SF, Team 95.5 that way
    90.5 Bucks (Giannis 95/PF - Middleton 86/SF)
    90.5 Sixers (Embiid 92/C - Tobias 89/SF)
    87.5 Pistons (Griffin 88/PF - Drummond 87/C)
    87.5 Pacers (Oladipo 89/SG - Sabonis 86/PF)
    87.0 Celtics (Kemba 89/PG - Tatum 85/SF)
    87.0 Wizards (Wall 86/PG - Beal 88/SG)
    86.5 Raptors (Lowry 87/PG - Siakam 86/PF)
    86.5 Magic (Vucevic 89/C - Augustin 84/PG)
    86.0 Heat (Butler 90/SF - Olynyk 82/PF)
    84.0 Cavs (Love 86/PF - Thompson 82/C)
    83.5 Hawks (Collins 84/PF - Young 83/PG)
    83.5 Bulls (LaVine 85/SG - Markkanen 82/PF)
    82.5 Knicks (Randle 83/PF - Barrett 82/SF)
    81.0 Hornets (Batum 81/SF - Zeller 81/C)
    Hustle Westbrook
    Coasting? I remember him “activating playoff mode” then proceeding to get smacked around by the Western conference bottom feeders and miss the playoffs.

    Oh you mean when he had literally just came back off a groin injury and his best players were Kuzma and a hurt Josh Hart?
    MackZillaTV
    Oh you mean when he had literally just came back off a groin injury and his best players were Kuzma and a hurt Josh Hart?

    What? When LeBron came back Brandom Ingram was his 2nd player and was playing the best stretch of basketball in his career and the Lakwrs still lost 8 out of 12 before he went down. By the time LeBron was playing with Josh Hart as his best player playoffs hopes were pretty much dead.
    And he had a groin injury when he "activated playoff mode" so don't try to use that as an excuse because if the groin injury was that much of a factor to the point where he couldn't lead his team past trash teams like Phoenix and Memphis then he should have never said that. It just reeks of him trying to change the narrative of why he missed the playoffs.
    EccentricMeat
    “Can’t make the playoffs”
    “Recency bias my ass”
    Yikes man. Lebron was on a god awful team last year AND injured for a good chunk of the season. Before that? Oh, he just led two separate teams to 8 straight NBA finals.
    You have some of the worst basketball takes I’ve ever seen.
    Dude, that is two seasons ago. He is soon going to be 35 years old and has lost a step (maybe two) athletically.
    Yes, he's the smartest, savviest player in the game, today, but he isn't the top guy anymore. He showed terrible leadership down the stretch in Los Angeles last season, but yeah we should just concentrate on what he did in a weaker conference two seasons ago.
    Anyway, he's still a top 3 player in this league but no longer the unquestioned best player in the game. That label now belongs to either Kawhi 'Nephew' Leonard or Giannis Antetokounmpo.
    Now, Anthony Davis if he can stay healthy and can "put it all together" on a deep playoff run then....
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    Kushmir
    This. Make the case for Kawhi without the silly takes. Lebron had that team 3rd in the west before he got hurt. Possibly one of his best performances ever....”can’t go to the playoffs” should literally never be a critique you make of Lebron—context matters.
    Context always matters, duh, but the fact still remains LeBron missed the playoffs (in a much tougher conference than 2 seasons ago), sulked and showed terrible leadership down the stretch.
    I love the guy and think he is the 2nd or 3rd greatest ever, but he isn't in his prime anymore, period.
    Also, everyone already knows what makes Nephew and Antetokounmpo great (and their clear weaknesses), but the athleticism advantage (especially when defending) is what separates them from current - day LeBron.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    Hustle Westbrook
    What? When LeBron came back Brandom Ingram was his 2nd player and was playing the best stretch of basketball in his career and the Lakwrs still lost 8 out of 12 before he went down. By the time LeBron was playing with Josh Hart as his best player playoffs hopes were pretty much dead.
    And he had a groin injury when he "activated playoff mode" so don't try to use that as an excuse because if the groin injury was that much of a factor to the point where he couldn't lead his team past trash teams like Phoenix and Memphis then he should have never said that. It just reeks of him trying to change the narrative of why he missed the playoffs.

    The real reason LeBron more than likely came back was to put a few more W's on the board to make it appear on paper that they hadn't gotten worst than the prior year. But the groin injury pretty much changed the whole dynamic of their season.
    Both Ball, Hart & Ingram also missed a combined two months, you can't win with a roster like that unless it's fully healthy. He also came back with less than 20 games left in the season, you can't do that **** either lol. Especially in the west!
    NINJAK2
    Rashidi- Zion an 85???? I know you are the numbers guru when it comes to 2k but that seems pretty generous

    Not at all. 2K is stingy to it's own detriment.
    Here are the ratings the 2019 Rookies finished with.
    2K19 Rookies
    1. DeAndre Ayton (84)
    2. Marvin Bagley (82
    3. Luka Doncic (87)
    4. Jaren Jackson (80)
    5. Trae Young: 84)

    6. Mo Bamba: 78) - The only player to not log 1000+ minutes
    7. Wendell Carter (78)
    8. Collin Sexton (77)
    9. Kevin Knox (74)
    10. Mikal Bridges (75)
    11. Shai G.Alexander (77)
    12. Miles Bridges (75)
    Growth from Default Roster
    +5 DeAndre Ayton
    +4 Marvin Bagley
    +8 Luka Doncic
    +2 Jaren Jackson
    +5 Trae Young
    +1 Mo Bamba
    +2 Wendell Carter
    +1 Collin Sexton
    -1 Kevin Knox
    +1 Mikal Bridges
    +4 Shai G.Alexander
    +1 Miles Bridges
    The top 12 picks went up 34 points during the season. That's an average of nearly three points per player.
    Kevin Knox was the ONLY rookie who went down.
    He was historically bad and yet he only dropped 1 point - that says A LOT about how underrated the rookies generally are.
    Zion coming in at 79 is a slap in the face when you look at last season's top five. The man is considered the future face of the NBA, a historic prospect, and 2K is starting him with a rating 1-point higher than Mo Bamba.
    There's a difference between being driving cautiously and driving 20 MPH on the highway.
    FWIW:
    I had Joel Embiid rated 82-83 OVR for the two years he was sidelined before he played an NBA game
    2K had him at 76-77 OVR.
    Various people criticized me for that
    Yet he broke 80 within his first month of his rookie season and finished the year at 86
    The Intangibles rating is also a factor for rookies. For example DeAndre Ayton started the season at 79 OVR but his Intangibles were kept arbitrarily low (IIRC 40-50 out of box). The bulk of his OVR "improvement" came when 2K bumped his INT up.
    The way 2K utilizes the Intangibles rating (as a band-aid) is fundamentally flawed. I have an actual scale and my OVR ratings as a whole are fine.
    99: Superstar
    90: All-Star
    80: Starter / Sixth Man
    70: Quality Reserve / Semi-Starter
    60: NBA Player
    50: G-League / Two-Way / Project
    76ers Example
    99: Joel Embiid
    90: Ben Simmons, Al Horford
    80: Tobias Harris, Josh Richardson
    70: Kyle O'Quinn, James Ennis, Mike Scott
    60: Raul Neto, Zhaire Smith, Jonah Bolden, Matisse Thybulle, Shake Milton
    50: Norvel Pelle, Marial Shayok
    The whole point of the INT rating is to ensure the correct players are getting PT in the various game modes. Using the scale accomplishes that. Of course, it won't if the players don't have accurate ratings to begin with, but that's a separate issue (but certainly ties in with the rookie ratings and many backups being underrated to a large degree)
    I have Zion 99 INT (as he projects to be that caliber of player) which is why he's an 85.
    If I dropped him to the 50 INT that 2K is likely starting him at, he'd be 81 OVR.
    How is LeBron rated so high. In most games I've watched of him, he just stands around on Defense a lot of the time. 
    Seems like that should lower his defensive rating a decent amount and hurt his overall. Guys that are elite on both ends like K Kawhi & Giannis should be at least a few points higher than him, IMO.
    Players who would have rated 80+ as Rookies
    2018: DeAndre Ayton (1), Marvin Bagley (2), Luka Doncic (3), Jaren Jackson (4), Trae Young (5)
    2017: Jayson Tatum (3), Lauri Markkanen (7), Donovan Mitchell (13), John Collins (19)
    2016: Ben Simmons (1)
    2015: Karl-Anthony Towns (1), Kristaps Porzingis (4)
    2014: Joel Embiid (3), Nikola Jokic (41)
    2013: None
    2012: Anthony Davis (1), Damian Lillard (6), Andre Drummond (9)
    2011: Kyrie Irving (1), Jonas Valanciunas (5), Kawhi Leonard (13), Isaiah Thomas (60)
    2010: John Wall (1), DeMarcus Cousins (5), Greg Monroe (7)
    2009: Blake Griffin (1), Tyreke Evans (4), Stephen Curry (7), Ty Lawson (18)
    2008: Derrick Rose (1), Russell Westbrook (4), Kevin Love (5), Brook Lopez (10)
    2007: Greg Oden (1), Kevin Durant (2), Al Horford (3), Marc Gasol (48)
    2006: LaMarcus Aldridge (2), Brandon Roy (6), Paul Millsap (47)
    2005: Andrew Bogut (1), Deron Williams (3), Chris Paul (4)
    2004: Dwight Howard (1), Emeka Okafor (2)
    2003: LeBron James (1), Carmelo Anthony (3), Chris Bosh (4), Dwyane Wade (5)
    2002: Yao Ming (1), Amare Stoudemire (9), Caron Butler (10), Carlos Boozer (35)
    2001: Pau Gasol (3)
    2000: None
    1999: Elton Brand (1), Steve Francis (2), Lamar Odom (4), Andre Miller (8), Shawn Marion (9)
    1998: Raef LaFrentz (3), Antawn Jamison (4), Vince Carter (5), Paul Pierce (10)
    1997: Tim Duncan (1), Keith Van Horn (2)
    1996: Allen Iverson (1), Marcus Camby (2), Shareef Abdur-Rahim (3), Stephon Marbury (4), Antoine Walker (6), Zydrunas Ilgauskas (20)
    1995: Joe Smith (1), Antonio McDyess (2), Kevin Garnett (5), Damon Stoudamire (7)
    1994: Glenn Robinson (1), Jason Kidd (2), Grant Hill (3), Juwan Howard (5), Jalen Rose (13)
    1993: Chris Webber (1), Penny Hardaway (3), Vin Baker (8)
    1992: Shaquille O'Neal (1), Alonzo Mourning (2), Christian Laettner (3), LaPhonso Ellis (5)
    1991: Larry Johnson (1), Billy Owens (3), Dikembe Mutombo (4), Toni Kukoc (29)
    1990: Tim Hardaway (14), Vlade Divac (26)
    1989: None
    1988: Rik Smits (2), Charles Smith (3), Mitch Richmond (5)
    1987: David Robinson (1), Kevin Johnson (7), Mark Jackson (17)
    1986: Brad Daugherty (1), Chuck Person (4), Ron Harper (8)
    1985: Patrick Ewing (1), Chris Mullin (7)
    1984: Hakeem Olajuwon (1), Sam Bowie (2), Michael Jordan (3), Sam Perkins (4), Charles Barkley (5), Alvin Robertson (7), Otis Thorpe (9)
    In the last 35 years the #1 OVR pick has been an 80+ quality rookie 25 times.
    Only 3 drafts out of the last 35 failed to produce an 80+ rookie.
    In total there were roughly 110 players in 35 years who qualified for 80+ treatment as rookies (3 per year).
    James Harden should have the best post defense in the game. This isn't up for debate.
    *Coming from a Russell Westbrook fan who will be cheering for the Houston Thunder this season.
    spoofrice11
    How is LeBron rated so high. In most games I've watched of him, he just stands around on Defense a lot of the time.*
    Seems like that should lower his defensive rating a decent amount and hurt his overall. Guys that are elite on both ends like K Kawhi & Giannis should be at least a few points higher than him, IMO.

    Knowing how LeBron likes to control all things around him and the fact that he is still a huge spokesman in the NBA I would not be surprised if LeBron told 2k "I don't want anyone rated higher than me! There will be consequences!" Next thing you know all Rich Paul clients refuse to come in for scans with 2k If LeBron is rated lower than anyone:google:jk...
    Rashidi
    Real 2K Insider's Dynamic Duos
    96.0 Lakers (LeBron 97/SF - Davis 95/C)
    93.0 Rockets (Harden 95/SF - Westbrook 91/PG)
    92.5 Nets (Kyrie 93/PG - Durant 92/PF) - KD is 98/SF, Team 95.5 that way
    91.5 Warriors (Curry 93/PG - Russell 88/SG)
    91.0 Clippers (Kawhi 94/SF - George 88/PF) - PG is 93/SF, Team 93.5 that way
    90.5 Bucks (Giannis 95/PF - Middleton 86/SF)
    90.5 Sixers (Embiid 92/C - Tobias 89/SF)
    90.0 Blazers (Lillard 92/PG - Nurkic 88/C)
    88.5 Jazz (Gobert 89/C - Conley 88/PG)
    88.5 Thunder (Paul 91/PG - Adams 86/C)
    88.5 Wolves (Towns 94/C - Teague 83/PG)
    88.0 Nuggets (Jokic 92/C - Millsap 84/PF)
    88.0 Spurs (DeRozan 89/SF - Aldridge 87/C)
    87.5 Mavs (Doncic 89/SF - Porzingis 86/PF)
    87.5 Pistons (Griffin 88/PF - Drummond 87/C)
    87.5 Pacers (Oladipo 89/SG - Sabonis 86/PF)
    87.0 Celtics (Kemba 89/PG - Tatum 85/SF)
    87.0 Wizards (Wall 86/PG - Beal 88/SG)
    87.0 Suns (Booker 89/SG - Ayton 85/C)
    86.5 Raptors (Lowry 87/PG - Siakam 86/PF)
    86.5 Pelicans (Holiday 88/PG - Zion 85/PF)
    86.5 Magic (Vucevic 89/C - Augustin 84/PG)
    86.0 Heat (Butler 90/SF - Olynyk 82/PF)
    86.0 Grizzlies (Jonas 88/C / Anderson 84/SF)
    84.5 Kings (Fox 86/PG - Hield 83/SG)
    84.0 Cavs (Love 86/PF - Thompson 82/C)
    83.5 Hawks (Collins 84/PF - Young 83/PG)
    83.5 Bulls (LaVine 85/SG - Markkanen 82/PF)
    82.5 Knicks (Randle 83/PF - Barrett 82/SF)
    81.0 Hornets (Batum 81/SF - Zeller 81/C)

    Are you planning to release an updated roster on 2K19 or just waiting until 2K20 releases?
    KG5FromTheBean
    Utah gonna be a top 5 seed in the West.
    Gobert is a beast, Mitchell is a star, and Conley was the perfect add.

    Do u mean u simulated in 2K19 and it already gives u top 5 seed in the West?
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    JoFri
    Do u mean u simulated in 2K19 and it already gives u top 5 seed in the West?
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    5th or 6th. I don't know if I could see them topping LAL, LAC, DEN, HOU or POR but anything's possible.
    Some of y’all need to realize that a 2k overall is just a formula based on their individual attributes. I’m not going to get into some big long debate on who the best 10 players in the league are or anything, too much to type, but some of you need to realize your arguments for/against why certain players should have certain “overalls” is based on things that aren’t even attributes in the game.
    The “LeBron didn’t make the playoffs” and that effects his 2k attributes how exactly? “LeBron doesn’t play defense” which is in reference to him taking plays off, but the only “effort” related attribute in the game is “hustle”.. there is no “take plays off on defense” rating to adjust, so it makes me wonder what exactly do you want them to take points away on?
    The take is a stretch to begin with, see scouting:
    https://youtu.be/Hsxlu7nYdhU
    And for the record LeBron is one of only a few forwards (Kawhi and PG didn’t do it) to average at least 5+ defensive boards, 1+ steals, .5+ blocks per 75.. steals, blocks, defensive rebounding all being defensive attributes listed in 2k, two of which he bests Kawhi at... his IQ defensive ratings will obviously be off the chart, he isn’t getting dumber as he ages. Reaction time I could see being a touch lower, and the only other defensive attribute is contesting shots. And according to NBA.com tracking opponents shot -3% compared to their norm on shots he contested, compared to Kawhi -0.3 and they both defended roughly 10 shots per game.. in the past you could argue Kawhi defends the better players, but this season that wasn’t true as often Green/Siakam were on 1 and 2 and Kawhi was getting his “rest” (similar to LeBron but don’t let that ruin your predetermined narratives).
    Not claiming LeBron is a better defender at this stage than Kawhi, that would be nonsense, but their aren’t attributes that you can just randomly decrease for “taking plays off”..
    Not to mention, for those that watched, Kawhi’s defense is much behind where he was 3 years or so ago. Here is his defensive scouting from the most recent series:
    https://youtu.be/ESUzJnCVrxA
    Looks like his reaction time could be a bit lower as well.
    If anything, I would say Kawhi at 97 will be a much more overrated player in terms of 2k attributes.. considering all his play-making stuff should be mediocre at best, and he was a much better defender 3 or so years ago. And his offense before the Zaza thing was just as good as he showed this season too. I don’t believe he ever topped 95 or so back then, so pushing him to 97 now just because they won seems like a stretch.. which 2k loves to overrate all kinds of attributes so they can get certain players to have certain “overalls”, which is something they should just scrap altogether.
    Similar could be said for Giannis.. he’ll never have a 2k overall that depicts his actual value because shooting plays too large of a role in the overall formula. And because of overalls we run into stupid arguments like “Karl Malone has to be rated higher than Allen Iverson”, even though we can’t control any players overall rating because the formula 2k uses is predetermined.
    All we have are the given attributes. Arguments like “how is this player the 6th best player in the league” are pointless because overalls basically mean nothing.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ojandpizza
    Some of y’all need to realize that a 2k overall is just a formula based on their individual attributes.

    What 2K needs to work on is the weight these attributes hold in the formula.
    SGs are highly skilled and not particularly athletic (Harden, Booker, Beal, McCollum, Klay Thompson).
    A big shift from the 90s/00s where teams were looking for athletes they hoped they could mold into the next Jordan/Kobe (the Jason Richardson & J.R. Smith era - most were just Alonzo Gee).
    PFs transitioned to stretch fours over a 15 year period while 2K still treats their skill-sets near identical to centers.
    The game has so rapidly evolved that pure stretch fours (like Ryan Anderson) have been pushed out of the league because they can't defend the increasingly athletic position.
    We're at a point where SF/PF are practically interchangeable yet there's a 6-point OVR difference if we switch their position.
    Cs no longer require a post game to be an effective offensive player. Defensive mobility is more important than being an elite shot blocker or rebounder. Players can put the ball on the floor, make passes, shoot threes.
    Al Horford got a massive contract. Hassan Whiteside got benched and salary dumped.
    2K ratings are stats-bound. 2K will never get the ratings right if they based on the defensive highlights or video breakdown of a NBA player.
    Look at Chris Paul, he is so potent on the on-ball defense and if u are not on ball-protect mode, the CPU will swat the ball away from u without fouling. He has a rating of 96 for steals (also equivalent to on-ball steal) in 2K19. From the regular season NBA stats (irl), he had 114 steals, logging 1857 minutes (0.0614 steals per min).
    Jrue Holiday had 109 steals, but he also logged 2402 minutes in total (0.0454 steals per minute). He has a rating of 63 for steals in 2K19. But hey, check this video highlights - he's awesome, isnt he?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riPWXJh3Zm0&list=WL&index=4&t=140s
    If I give Chris Paul a steal rating of 99, then Jrue is gonna get 75. We all know we can't give Chris Paul 99 because there are a few more players having higher steals per min than him i.e. Marcus Smart was having 143 steals, logging 2200 minutes (0.065 steals per min). And yet, Smart is only 93 in steal ratings.
    The challenge is really how to have a nice 'scale' of the real NBA stats that translate into ratings in 100 with minimum of 25 in the attribution category. Lebron missed a chunk of games in the last season and Kawhi had a fair bit as well (load management). On the other hand, the lesser games played could mean higher average too. We never know if 2K based on the total no. of games played, or total minutes logged, in the entire regular season including or excluding the playoffs.
    Steals is just one category, and I havent even talked about 3 point rating. Based on last season stats, James Harden deserves a higher rating than Stephen Curry or Klay Thomson.
    I'm looking forward to see the breakdown of the rating attributes in 2k20!
    And I hope they tuned the tendency to have more 3s attempts and more charges in 2K20.
    Rashidi
    What 2K needs to work on is the weight these attributes hold in the formula.
    SGs are highly skilled and not particularly athletic (Harden, Booker, Beal, McCollum, Klay Thompson).
    A big shift from the 90s/00s where teams were looking for athletes they hoped they could mold into the next Jordan/Kobe (the Jason Richardson & J.R. Smith era - most were just Alonzo Gee).
    PFs transitioned to stretch fours over a 15 year period while 2K still treats their skill-sets near identical to centers.
    The game has so rapidly evolved that pure stretch fours (like Ryan Anderson) have been pushed out of the league because they can't defend the increasingly athletic position.
    We're at a point where SF/PF are practically interchangeable yet there's a 6-point OVR difference if we switch their position.
    Cs no longer require a post game to be an effective offensive player. Defensive mobility is more important than being an elite shot blocker or rebounder. Players can put the ball on the floor, make passes, shoot threes.
    Al Horford got a massive contract. Hassan Whiteside got benched and salary dumped.

    I agree. Something has always been off with the power forward position though. It seems to not reward traditional 4's enough who play more like centers, doesn't value shooting as much for stretch 4's as it does 2's or 3's, and doesn't value play-making enough to slide guys like LeBron/Giannis to the 4 and it not hurt their overall.
    I think you and I talked about that some last year with Karl Malone. You pretty much have to overrate nearly ever attribute on both sides for him to come out as an MVP-level player in terms of his overall. Grading him more accurately in terms of his attributes yielded a low 90's overall player. A 6'9 power forward in 2k with a good strength, solid interior defense, rebounding, and scoring ratings doesn't yield the same overall as switching him to say a 7' center with the same ratings.
    On your last point, I do think that defensive rebounding is still/should still hold a lot of defensive weight. One of the only defensive attributes that actually guarantees your team takes possession of the ball, that will hold true no matter how the game changes. But in general, yes mobility in today's game holds more value than traditional interior D.
    Not sure how folks are arguing a point or few here & there without seeing the individual ratings.
    Re: LeBron vs Leonard, I think folks are shaving a few off for LeBron in IQ & play making. He might be the smartest player in the league right now. Leonard is a smart player, but the fact that his assist are so low shows he's not nearly as smart. And yeah, assists, LeBron averages what, a full 5 more?
    And last we saw, LeBron is averaging more minutes than Leonard, despite the age advantage, and always has.
    And there's size & strength.
    Leonard may ONLY have LeBron beat in on ball defense. LeBron takes a hit for inconsistent effort, but when he turns it on, is not far behind, if at all. And there are other aspects of defense, some tied to IQ.
    As long as the individual ratings are on point, I couldn't care less about the overalls. Who knows how they get to those?
    Kushmir
    C'mon now...you're "mis-remembering" at best. The game he got hurt they blew out the Warriors by 20 (Christmas day) and were 3rd in the west (20-14) at the time. We can't have these convos if you guys just gonna make stuff up lol....and I HATE the Lakers.
    https://www.nba.com/article/2018/12/25/lebron-james-locker-room-possible-groin-injury
    https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2019_games.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuxVz7JUaJA

    To play devils advocate they had been smacked by the magic ... and then smacked by the Grizzlies before the Warriors game.
    Not feeding into the Lebron is declining topic or anything I feel he’s rated Correctly.
    I just honestly think if the 2k20 ratings are based on 2018-2019 season Kawahi and/or KD should be 98.
    Lebron out up great numbers but Kawahi Put up great numbers on BOTH sides of the ball which IMO warrants him the higher OVR.
    They both are incredible inside scorers ,
    Efficient ,
    have in incredibly high basketball IQ ,
    But (takes an extremely high level of IQ to be the type of defender Kawahi is.
    They’re evened out in many ways , I know many will give the “Lebron is a better passer or rebounder” nod but I omitted because Rebounding is an Effort Stat, and assists are a reliability stat
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Right now I have no argument against LeBron being tied for highest rated player.
    Yes he’s lost a step and is no longer undisputed best.
    To those saying he has lost so much that he is not in the discussion as best, the numbers don’t back that up.
    Expect a drop off this year? Cool, so do I. And at that point his ratings can be adjusted accordingly. But not until it happens.
    We should talk more about Bradley Beal getting no love.
    AndreSwagassi86
    I omitted because Rebounding is an Effort Stat, and assists are a reliability stat
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    Even if this was your stance those are stats that literally have a matching attributes in 2k.. So how do you expect those to be omitted from a player's overall when those are indeed attributes that make up the players overall rating? If Bron tops him in defensive rebounding, box-out rating, passing, pass vision, pass IQ, pass accuracy.. how do you not expect that to play a role in the "overall" number.
    For me, I never cared about OVR when building a team. Ratings and Tendencies have a bigger impact anyway in terms of gameplay. Heck I wouldn't mind if they stretched it out alittle more.
    Lighting looks better. But one issue have with players is the eyes. Initially couple years ago, I liked the changes to eyes. But now, I feel some players eyes feel too big. Two players stand out for me, Anthony Davis and Jimmy Butler. Anthony Davis eyes feel bugged out. Especially when 2k put out the comparison pic showing solo pick and real life. Part of the reason 2k has struggled with Jimmy Butler's render, is his eyes. His eyes are too big. Hopefully with next gen, it brings less cartoonish look and and muscle tone.
    ojandpizza
    Even if this was your stance those are stats that literally have a matching attributes in 2k.. So how do you expect those to be omitted from a player's overall when those are indeed attributes that make up the players overall rating? If Bron tops him in defensive rebounding, box-out rating, passing, pass vision, pass IQ, pass accuracy.. how do you not expect that to play a role in the "overall" number.

    With that part I was referring to real life comparison of the 2.... of course In 2K that affects overall
    im sure Kawahi is definitely capable of Rebounding/passing the ball at a high or higher rate than Lebron.
    A lot of Rebounds are gameplan in basketball. Take Westbrook for example he pushes the pace for the team so a lot of Rebounds are destined for him pretty much. Doesn’t necessarily make him a “better” rebounder because he averages as much as PF’s and C’s
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    AndreSwagassi86

    im sure Kawahi is definitely capable of Rebounding/passing the ball at a high or higher rate than Lebron.

    For sure. Lets look at the stats.
    Comparing the past regular season stats (average per game),
    Kawhi
    1.3 defensive rebounds
    6.0 offensive rebounds
    7.3 rebounds
    34 minutes
    He grabbed 0.21 rebound per minute.
    In playoff, he grabbed 0.23 rebound per minute (average about 39.1 minutes).
    For Lebron, no playoffs stats to compare. His regular season stats,
    8.4 rebounds
    35.2 minutes
    0.24 rebound per minute
    So based on stats, Lebron is slightly better than Kawhi. Ratings? Perhaps a point more/less.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    AndreSwagassi86
    im sure Kawahi is definitely capable of Rebounding/passing the ball at a high or higher rate than Lebron.

    JoFri
    For sure. Lets look at the stats.

    LeBron
    3.1 ORB% (Career: 3.7)
    21.3 DRB% (Career: 18.3)
    39.4 AST% (Career: 35.8)
    Kawhi
    4.2 ORB% (Career: 4.8)
    18.6 DRB% (Career: 18.0)
    16.4 AST% (Career: 12.9)
    One of these is not like the others
    Rating Conversion
    LeBron: 40 ORB, 79 DRB, 89 PASS
    Kawhi: 46 ORB, 72 DRB, 61 PASS
    Rashidi
    LeBron
    3.1 ORB% (Career: 3.7)
    21.3 DRB% (Career: 18.3)
    39.4 AST% (Career: 35.8)
    Kawhi
    4.2 ORB% (Career: 4.8)
    18.6 DRB% (Career: 18.0)
    16.4 AST% (Career: 12.9)
    One of these is not like the others
    Rating Conversion
    LeBron: 40 ORB, 79 DRB, 89 PASS
    Kawhi: 46 ORB, 72 DRB, 61 PASS

    And again I state that it’s an effort stat ....
    Take Jordan for example , once was a scorer, rebounder and passer in his early years of his career onced averaged 32/8/8 but as his career changed and gameplan changed assist and rebound numbers went down.
    Throwing rebound and assist comparison numbers just means one is doing it more than the other not that he’s doing it better.
    For a long time in his career Lebron’s assist numbers came from how much traffic he generates on the drive and kick. Which is why it’s usually best to put shooters around him.
    Still stands and still very sure that if Kawahi or any star wanted to put up Rebound and assist numbers at the rate of Lebron James they could. Westbrook proves that every night (but they call it stat padding)
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    AndreSwagassi86
    And again I state that it’s an effort stat ....
    Take Jordan for example , once was a scorer, rebounder and passer in his early years of his career onced averaged 32/8/8 but as his career changed and gameplan changed assist and rebound numbers went down.
    Throwing rebound and assist comparison numbers just means one is doing it more than the other not that he’s doing it better.
    For a long time in his career Lebron’s assist numbers came from how much traffic he generates on the drive and kick. Which is why it’s usually best to put shooters around him.
    Still stands and still very sure that if Kawahi or any star wanted to put up Rebound and assist numbers at the rate of Lebron James they could. Westbrook proves that every night (but they call it stat padding)
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    This is preposterous
    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using Operation Sports mobile app
    Mackrel829
    How does Andre Drummond keep getting ratings in the mid-80s?!
    I guess Boogie will be in that range too...

    I think when they changed the way ratings worked a few years back a player who is rated as a rebounder can have a high overall based on being a rebounder. Kind of like how elite defenders who offered little else jumped from being rated in the 60’s up to the 80’s.. which was a great change IMO, because beforehand only the top scorers had high overalls, and scoring is probably the easiest thing to replace/replicate in NBA basketball.
    Drummond holds 4 of the top 20 rebound percentages of all time (players who played 1000+ minutes).. in terms of value 2k’s overall would have him as overrated, but if he’s being ranked as a rebounder, he’s not too far off from Rodman-level. Thus his overall would make a bit more sense.
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    AndreSwagassi86
    With that part I was referring to real life comparison of the 2.... of course In 2K that affects overall
    im sure Kawahi is definitely capable of Rebounding/passing the ball at a high or higher rate than Lebron.
    A lot of Rebounds are gameplan in basketball. Take Westbrook for example he pushes the pace for the team so a lot of Rebounds are destined for him pretty much. Doesn’t necessarily make him a “better” rebounder because he averages as much as PF’s and C’s
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    In what world is Kawhi a more capable passer than Lebron
    Don’t know if anybody has mentioned it but in the Terrence Ross screen they finally have the NBA logo on the padded arm sleeves. Little detail but nice.
    Rockie_Fresh88
    In what world is Kawhi a more capable passer than Lebron

    If we are looking at assist to turnover ration (higher the better passer) for the past regular season, Lbj was better.
    Kawhi 1.64
    Lebron 2.30
    But bearing in mind Lebron played a lot of minutes in the point forward role, so naturally he records higher no. of passes made than Kawhi who plays more on a scorer role with the Raptors.
    Kawhi 30.1 passes made per game
    Lebron 54.8
    I also saw Jokic recorded league high 71.3 passes made per game with 2.34 assists to turnover ratio. If we agree to the stats, Jokic is a better passer than Lebron and Kawhi.
    If I rate Jokic 99 in passing ability attribute, scaling it down will have 97 for Lebron and 69 for Kawhi. Thats my maths ....
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Watched nearly ever Raptors game last season. Kawhi doesn't get assists because he has no playmaker mentality and poor passing vision. He was ironically similar to Derozan 2 years ago before he made the statement he needed to get better at passing then came into the next season playing more as the primary playmaker with Lowry offball.
    I think on the Clippers we will see PG and Bev playmaking for other guys while Kawhi stays in his scoring role
    Mackrel829
    How does Andre Drummond keep getting ratings in the mid-80s?!
    I guess Boogie will be in that range too...

    Honestly, I stopped giving a damn about player ratings like 4 2K's ago. As long as the individual stats line up to how they play in real life and whoever I'm controlling FEELS like the person they're supposed to be, I'm good.
    Back in 2K15 & 16 I regularly dropped 40+ with Jamal Crawford with 8 min quarters even though he was rated around 80.
    Rockie_Fresh88
    In what world is Kawhi a more capable passer than Lebron

    In any world ...
    if Kawahi wanted to turn his game into a more pass first approach he very well could. Especially at the Wing Forward position. With the defensive traffic he can generate , it takes nothing to kick the ball out ...
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    AndreSwagassi86
    In any world ...
    if Kawahi wanted to turn his game into a more pass first approach he very well could. Especially at the Wing Forward position. With the defensive traffic he can generate , it takes nothing to kick the ball out ...
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    Finally figured it out...
    You think assist are only based off a simple drive and kick. If you think that's the only way Lebron has maintained his assist numbers throughout his career, please watch more full games.
    And if you think Kawhi can simply turn on that type of vision, touch & IQ, please watch more full games.
    If he could average more assist easily, he would. It's that simple.
    kirbz101
    I wonder how suffocating the CPU's defense will be in this game, because in NBA 2K19 the defense is insane.

    Mess with the sliders. 2K19 perimeter defense by the bigs are unreal
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Nevertheles109
    Finally figured it out...
    You think assist are only based off a simple drive and kick. If you think that's the only way Lebron has maintained his assist numbers throughout his career, please watch more full games.
    And if you think Kawhi can simply turn on that type of vision, touch & IQ, please watch more full games.
    If he could average more assist easily, he would. It's that simple.

    Oh my God , never once said anything you spewed at all.
    Never said assists are based off ONLY Drive and kick....drive and kick is just one of the most simplistic methods of obtaining an assist.
    Never once said that’s how Lebron has obtained all his assist either.
    Lebron has always envisioned himself as a pass first player, his MO is always to get other guys involved. Want to talk about watching games? I’m Cleveland Tyron Lue rarely ran any motion offense so a large number of the assists through the team was thru a lot of pick and roll alongside drive and kick.
    Kawahi In the other hand is a Score first wing , the fact that he can generate , he could easily Obtain assist numbers comparable to Lebron if he chose, but if he feels he has the shot he’s going to take it. It’s not a matter of turning on Vision, touch IQ or not.
    Vision , Touch and IQ definitely help assist numbers depending on offense , if your offense is free flowing and motion a guy who can see the floor will for surely rack up assist numbers because he will see front and back cuts and put the ball where it needs to be to set his teammate up for a score.
    Again Kawahi is a scorer , his MO is to put the ball in the bucket , assists are not rocket science , and he could easily put the same numbers up if he wanted to im sure.
    Westbrook is averaged 10 assists a game for the 4th year in a row after averaging 5,7,6,8 since 2011-12... but ain’t nobody out here about to scream Westbrook has Lebron-Like IQ, vision, and touch.
    Read first then Conclude my friend
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    AndreSwagassi86
    Kawahi In the other hand is a Score first wing , the fact that he can generate , he could easily Obtain assist numbers comparable to Lebron if he chose, but if he feels he has the shot he’s going to take it. It’s not a matter of turning on Vision, touch IQ or not.

    If Kawhi exhibited the vision and IQ that LeBron bestows, he would average more assists. The fact is he does not have that skillset. He puts his head down and regularly misses teammates. That's okay. His playmaking is average. It's probably his biggest weakness, and he's better than half the NBA at it.
    Dismissing the production of all-time players as "effort-based" and "anyone can do that" is not going to win you many fans (or arguments).
    Again Kawahi is a scorer , his MO is to put the ball in the bucket , assists are not rocket science , and he could easily put the same numbers up if he wanted to im sure.

    And yet all the empirical evidence points the other way. Feel free to continue sticking your head in the sand over it though.
    Westbrook is averaged 10 assists a game for the 4th year in a row after averaging 5,7,6,8 since 2011-12... but ain’t nobody out here about to scream Westbrook has Lebron-Like IQ, vision, and touch.

    Newsflash: Kawhi ain't at Westbrook's level either.
    Westbrook set the NBA record for Usage in 2017.
    Kawhi ranked 14th this year, which was only his 2nd season in the top 20.
    Kawhi isn't capable of being ball-dominant to the degree that a Westbrook or Harden are. His handle isn't good enough to PnR/Iso all day, and he can't consistently hit the open man when the double comes.
    When Kawhi has a top 30 assist rate (much less top 5-10), we can have this conversation.
    Don't be a prisoner of the moment.
    Current Starting SF and their 2019 AST%
    39.5 James Harden (HOU)
    39.4 LeBron James (LAL)
    31.6 Luka Doncic (DAL)
    27.6 DeMar DeRozan (SAS)
    23.5 RJ Barrett (NYK) - NCAA
    20.1 Khris Middleton (MIL)
    18.0 Jimmy Butler (MIA)
    16.6 Aaron Gordon (ORL)
    16.1 Kawhi Leonard (LAC)
    15.0 Kyle Anderson (MEM)
    14.9 Troy Brown Jr (WAS)
    14.6 Will Barton (DEN)
    14.5 Nicolas Batum (CHA)
    13.5 DeAndre Hunter (ATL) - NCAA
    12.9 Brandon Ingram (NOP)
    12.5 Tobias Harris (PHI)
    12.1 Cedi Osman (CLE)
    11.9 Joe Harris (BKN)
    10.9 Andrew Wiggins (MIN)
    10.1 Otto Porter (CHI)
    10.0 Jayson Tatum (BOS)
    10.0 Rodney Hood (POR)
    9.5 Bojan Bogdanovic (UTA)
    7.7 T.J. Warren (IND)
    6.8 Kelly Oubre (PHX)
    6.7 Harrison Barnes (SAC)
    6.7 Tony Snell (MIL)
    6.0 Andre Roberson (OKC) - 2018
    5.1 Glenn Robinson III (GSW)
    4.7 OG Anunoby (TOR)
    Like if you wanna put Kawhi's playmaking in the same sentence as LeBron's maybe he should pass the Jimmy Butler tier first? Kawhi has a 30% Usage rate and is supposed to be putting up assists.
    Ain't nobody watching Luka Doncic and thinking "man, if only his playmaking were better than Kawhi we could have something here"
    James Harden: 40 AST% / 41 USG% (0.98)
    LeBron James: 39 AST% / 32 USG% (1.22)
    Luka Doncic: 32 AST% / 31 USG% (1.03)
    DeMar DeRozan: 28 AST% / 28 USG% (1.00)
    RJ Barrett (NCAA): 24 AST% / 32 USG% (0.75)
    Khris Middleton: 20 AST% / 25 USG% (0.80)
    Jimmy Butler: 18 AST% / 22 USG% (0.82)
    Aaron Gordon: 17 AST% / 22 USG% (0.77)
    Kawhi Leonard: 16 AST% / 30 USG% (0.53)
    These guys are literally on opposite ends of the spectrum.
    The best part is this was actually a DOWN YEAR for LeBron
    2018: 44 AST% / 32 USG% (1.38)
    2017: 41 AST% / 30 USG% (1.36)
    Westbrook since we're here
    2019: 47 AST% / 31 USG% (1.52)
    2018: 50 AST% / 34 USG% (1.47)
    2017: 57 AST% / 42 USG% (1.36)
    2016: 50 AST% / 32 USG% (1.56)
    2015: 47 AST% /38 USG% (1.24)
    2014: 40 AST% / 34 USG% (1.18)
    2013: 38 AST% / 33 USG% (1.20)
    2012: 30 AST% / 33 USG% (0.90)
    When Kawhi's playmaking eclipses a BAD Westbrook season let us know
    If Fox is an 86, then what is Bradley Beal? Dude averaged 25 on better percentages than fox overall by a mile. He can’t be only a 86-87. Come on 2k smh. Beal is one of more underrated players in the NBA.
    Steve_OS

    Jayson Tatum

    Hmmm interesting that Tatum is doing his pregame animation but is sweating as if the game already started. Maybe players actually sweat from the pregame warm-up this year, or 2k is just over doing it with the sweat system.
    goma76
    Mmmh, a little bit overrated IMHO

    I think he was an 88 at the start of last 2K as well. I don't get why he keeps getting overrated.. Realistically he's an 80 at most considering he's not elite in any area.
    AndreSwagassi86

    Rashidi

    Spoilered your post and the responses for length, but I have to agree with Rashidi on this. Trying to come to the conclusion that Kawhi has the passing capability or even vision of Westbrook, Jordan, much less LeBron of all people is a really big stretch... That is the weakest part of his game, and even if he was generating "more assists" in a free-flowing system, or reduced scoring MO, those are still simply just assist numbers. 5 assists from one player and 5 assists from another player could be representative of completely different passing levels and circumstances..
    Even though assists, and assist percentage to a lesser degree, can at times be a bit flawed, Ben Taylor from Thinking Basketball has a "passer rating" metric. http://www.backpicks.com/2018/07/15/nba-passer-ratings-since-1978/ - link to how that is calculated..
    I am subscribed his patreon account, and I'm not going to post his paid info for free, but just for this bit of information Kawhi's passer rating for this past season was 4.5.. If you sort the list by passer rating, players who had a 4.5 were ranked 198-211 this season alone, to give you some comparisons of players in that range Markieff Morris, Zach LaVine, Kyle Korver, Kent Bazemore, KCP... LeBron at 8.8, Westbrook at 8.2, which might not seem like much more but when the best season ever by this metric is Magic at 9.9, then 8.8 is substantially more than a 4.5.. That's a top tied for 13th season ever for Bron, somewhere in the 99.9th percentile of all seasons from any player, against a season that wouldn't crack one of the top 5,000 seasons of all time.
    ojandpizza

    Spoilered your post and the responses for length, but I have to agree with Rashidi on this. Trying to come to the conclusion that Kawhi has the passing capability or even vision of Westbrook, Jordan, much less LeBron of all people is a really big stretch... That is the weakest part of his game, and even if he was generating "more assists" in a free-flowing system, or reduced scoring MO, those are still simply just assist numbers. 5 assists from one player and 5 assists from another player could be representative of completely different passing levels and circumstances..
    Even though assists, and assist percentage to a lesser degree, can at times be a bit flawed, Ben Taylor from Thinking Basketball has a "passer rating" metric. http://www.backpicks.com/2018/07/15/nba-passer-ratings-since-1978/ - link to how that is calculated..
    I am subscribed his patreon account, and I'm not going to post his paid info for free, but just for this bit of information Kawhi's passer rating for this past season was 4.5.. If you sort the list by passer rating, players who had a 4.5 were ranked 198-211 this season alone, to give you some comparisons of players in that range Markieff Morris, Zach LaVine, Kyle Korver, Kent Bazemore, KCP... LeBron at 8.8, Westbrook at 8.2, which might not seem like much more but when the best season ever by this metric is Magic at 9.9, then 8.8 is substantially more than a 4.5.. That's a top tied for 13th season ever for Bron, somewhere in the 99.9th percentile of all seasons from any player, against a season that wouldn't crack one of the top 5,000 seasons of all time.

    All I’m speaking on is the increase of assist numbers ....
    And we agree that assists from one player is completely different assists from another player.
    One player could very well have 5 assists using his IQ, vision and passing touch across 94 feet.
    While another could simple have 5 assists driving the ball , generating traffic and handing it off or kicking it out.
    Take Kobe for perfect example , did bad IQ, Court Vision and passing hinder him from averaging assists at a higher rate
    never once stated that Kawahi could posses the Vision, or IQ etc of a Lebron James .... this is only speaking of obtaining raw assist numbers
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    AndreSwagassi86
    All I’m speaking on is the increase of assist numbers ....
    And we agree that assists from one player is completely different assists from another player.
    One player could very well have 5 assists using his IQ, vision and passing touch across 94 feet.
    While another could simple have 5 assists driving the ball , generating traffic and handing it off or kicking it out.
    Take Kobe for perfect example , did bad IQ, Court Vision and passing hinder him from averaging assists at a higher rate
    never once stated that Kawahi could posses the Vision, or IQ etc of a Lebron James .... this is only speaking of obtaining raw assist numbers
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    I don’t know if I’m reading this wrong, but Kobe was FAR from a bad passer
    Steve_OS
    NBA 2K20 ratings for Andre Drummond & Monte Morris
    The 2K rating system is so broken. How the hell is a career back up (although a quality backup PG) rated as good as a starter or borderline all- star (75 - 80 range)?
    SMDH
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    MackZillaTV
    I don’t know if I’m reading this wrong, but Kobe was FAR from a bad passer

    You’re reading it right. He was far from a bad passer. But the numbers and “analytics” will try to argue that he isn’t and great passer. Which is my point to these guys
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    The players and teams adjust their gameplan. When they were beat, they watched film and adjust, look out for better passing angles and see where the double team coverages. This is especially so in the playoffs. We may have seen elite players fumbled in a game but suddenly become elite again in the next game. Thanks to Kobe, he shared that in youtube breaking down the Nuggets defense coverage against him in the WCF series.
    We also understand the stats depend very much on the team play-scheme. Kobe can average a triple double if he wants (I think he did it twice consecutively) or play the scoring role (he scored 40+ in a stretch). Thats possible bcos the way the triangle offense is designed - players cut hard, set hard screens etc. Lebron has mostly been playing in Pnr offense scheme, less ball movement, shooters waiting at their spots. Westbrook? Same, pnr offense. 2K default playbook are 90% Pnr plays too for OKC. They need fhe ball to be effective and the offense runs through them. Kawhi - Pnr is not the main threat. They run a lot of FIST delays with Gasol at the elbow or top of key. They moved the ball by running THRU actions. Then iso by giving to Kawhi. Pnr yes, but not 90% of the time.
    Unfortunately, no one (except for the data scientists in the real nba teams eg. HOU, PHI etc) will have the time to breakdown each player, each team, offense schemes, their tendencies, to study how and why the stats drop or improve. The Nba stats have to be the only source to determine attribute and tendency ratings in a video game.
    So I truely agree an elite player can be a better passer or scorer if they are given the opportunity. Else, the stats will just be ones to determine the ratings.
    And I can't give Kawhi a 97 on passing accuracy attribute bcos the assist-turnover ratio say so. I'll give that for Lebron or Jokic.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    AndreSwagassi86
    You’re reading it right. He was far from a bad passer. But the numbers and “analytics” will try to argue that he isn’t and great passer. Which is my point to these guys

    There is a wide gap between a bad passer and a great/elite passer.
    No analyst in Kobe's prime was comparing him to Dwight Howard.
    Not being LeBron/Magic tier doesn't make a player bad at passing.
    jk31
    So everyone and their mother now have 80+ ratings, which few years ago Were reserved for allstar csliber players?

    Starter = 80
    All-Star = 85
    Superstar = 90
    All-Time = 95
    It's a pretty straightforward scale
    Rashidi
    Starter = 80
    All-Star = 85
    Superstar = 90
    All-Time = 95
    It's a pretty straightforward scale
    Dude, anyone with an 80+ has a "star" symbol under them. So, that would mean they are a "star" or at least 2K thinks so.
    They need to do a better job of spreading out player ratings, but that won't happen while everyone is "friends" with the athletes.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    J_Posse
    Dude, anyone with an 80+ has a "star" symbol under them. So, that would mean they are a "star" or at least 2K thinks so

    FWIW, the star symbol just means an important/integral player on the team not necessarily a "star." This is stated in the 2KU.
    2Kray
    FWIW, the star symbol just means an important/integral player on the team not necessarily a "star." This is stated in the 2KU.
    Sure, because a "star" symbol would specify being an important player and not a an actual star player. Give me a break.....
    Do you realize that some tendencies/ratings don't do what there description actual says they do, right?
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    Jordanxyrho
    Siakam along with leaked jersey

    I don't know how credible this is but found it on another forum.

    Could be real.....
    It’s our 25th anniversary. This jersey is new yet a respect to the expansion years....
    J_Posse
    They need to do a better job of spreading out player ratings

    I disagree with this sentiment. There is already too much separation relative to the actual NBA.
    A visual representation of the final NBA 2K19 Ratings
    96: XXX
    95: XXX
    94: X
    93: XX
    92: XXX
    91: X
    90: X
    89: XX
    88: XXXXXXXXX
    87: XXXXXXXXXX
    86: XXXX
    85: XXXXXXXX
    84: XXXXXXXX
    83: XXXXXXXXXXX
    82: XXXXXXXX
    81: XXXXXXXX
    80: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    79: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    78: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    77: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    76: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    75: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    74: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    73: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    72: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    71: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    70: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    69: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    68: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    67: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    66: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    65: XXXXXX
    Note how the 70s looks like a Pyramid while the 80s are a flat line (ending at 88). This isn't an accurate representation of the NBA's talent and we can find some stinker ratings throughout.
    PG: D.J. Augustin (76), Dante Exum (74), George Hill (74), Seth Curry (74)
    SG: Danny Green (76), J.R. Smith (75), Kevin Huerter (74), Langston Galloway (72), Josh Okogie (70)
    SF: Furkan Korkmaz (74), Kyle Anderson (74), Cedi Osman (74), Mo Harkless (74), Evan Turner (73), Dorian Finney-Smith (72)
    PF: Alan Williams (75), Rondae Hollis-Jefferson (74), Markieff Morris (74)
    C: Mo Bamba (78), Mitchell Robinson (77), Bismack Biyombo (76)
    The muddle in the mid-70s should extend into the 80s. It makes no sense for Danny Green and Kyle Anderson to be getting 12M as highly coveted FAs while other players in that range are getting minimum contracts. If your system thinks Green is only two points better than Furkan Korkmaz you are doing something fundamentally wrong.
    but that won't happen while everyone is "friends" with the athletes.

    ^Insert Tinfoil Hat here
    Stauffer isn't friends with the athletes.
    The day NBA players start taking Mike Wang and DaCzar clubbing in hopes of a better rating, would at least make for must-see-2KTV.
    Visual of SF ratings (Starters in Bold)
    96: XX
    95: XX
    94:
    93: X
    92:
    91:
    90:
    89:
    88: X
    87: XX
    86:
    85:
    84: XX
    83: X
    82:
    81: XXX
    80: XXXX
    79: XX
    78: XXXXX
    77: XX
    76: XXXXXXX
    75: XXXXXXX
    74: XXXXXXXXXX
    73: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    72: XXXXXXXX
    71: XXXXXXXX
    70: XXXX
    69: XXXX
    68: XXXXXX
    67: XX
    66: XXXXX
    65: X
    If anything this pretty clearly disproves your theory about "anyone" getting an 80. It's far from the truth.
    Visual of 2K19 PG ratings (Starters in Bold)
    96:
    95: X
    94:
    93:
    92: XX
    91:
    90: X
    89: X
    88: XX
    87: XXX
    86:
    85: X
    84: XX
    83: X
    82: XXX
    81:
    80: XX
    79: XXX
    78: XXXXX
    77: XXXXXXXXX
    76: XXXXXXXX
    75: XXXXXXXXX
    74: XXXXXXXXXX
    73: XXXXXXXX
    72: XXXXXX
    71: XXX
    70: XXXXX
    69: XXXXX
    68: XXXX
    67: XXXX
    66: X
    65: XX
    These aren't nearly as convoluted.
    29/36 PGs with 77+ rating are starters
    23/27 SFs with 77+ rating are starters
    29/32 Starting PGs have 77+ Rating (91%)
    23/34 Starting SFs have 77+ Rating (68%)
    There are some differences in position quality, sure, but this is also a system that apparently rates Danny Green, D.J. Augustin and Fred VanVleet on par with T.J. McConnell, Jalen Brunson, and Shabazz Napier.
    Yeah i dont think that Siakam one is real. It doesnt fit the style of the screens 2k has been posting (up the nose, glossy look). Also, i dont follow 2ks ratings so I could be mistaken but didnt Siakam end the season as an 87 or something? Doubt they would lower his intangibles enough to drop him 2 manipulated overall points, twitter would explode.
    Rashidi
    I disagree with this sentiment. There is already too much separation relative to the actual NBA.
    A visual representation of the final NBA 2K19 Ratings
    96: XXX
    95: XXX
    94: X
    93: XX
    92: XXX
    91: X
    90: X
    89: XX
    88: XXXXXXXXX
    87: XXXXXXXXXX
    86: XXXX
    85: XXXXXXXX
    84: XXXXXXXX
    83: XXXXXXXXXXX
    82: XXXXXXXX
    81: XXXXXXXX
    80: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    79: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    78: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    77: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    76: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    75: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    74: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    73: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    72: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    71: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    70: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    69: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    68: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    67: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    66: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    65: XXXXXX
    Note how the 70s looks like a Pyramid while the 80s are a flat line (ending at 88). This isn't an accurate representation of the NBA's talent and we can find some stinker ratings throughout.
    PG: D.J. Augustin (76), Dante Exum (74), George Hill (74), Seth Curry (74)
    SG: Danny Green (76), J.R. Smith (75), Kevin Huerter (74), Langston Galloway (72), Josh Okogie (70)
    SF: Furkan Korkmaz (74), Kyle Anderson (74), Cedi Osman (74), Mo Harkless (74), Evan Turner (73), Dorian Finney-Smith (72)
    PF: Alan Williams (75), Rondae Hollis-Jefferson (74), Markieff Morris (74)
    C: Mo Bamba (78), Mitchell Robinson (77), Bismack Biyombo (76)
    The muddle in the mid-70s should extend into the 80s. It makes no sense for Danny Green and Kyle Anderson to be getting 12M as highly coveted FAs while other players in that range are getting minimum contracts. If your system thinks Green is only two points better than Furkan Korkmaz you are doing something fundamentally wrong.
    ^Insert Tinfoil Hat here
    Stauffer isn't friends with the athletes.
    The day NBA players start taking Mike Wang and DaCzar clubbing in hopes of a better rating, would at least make for must-see-2KTV.
    We have this exact argument every year, but the gap between the best players (LeBron, Nephew, Durant & Giannis) and fringe players is huge in real life.
    2K can and should do a better job of showing that gap in - game, but instead everyone is a 70+.
    Also, there is definitely a conscious effort to maintain a high baseline (70+) so players won't upset (especially on social media).
    We all saw the shade sent Ronnie/2K's way by the likes of Ben Simmons & John Waal in the past.
    With all the advanced metrics, on court tracking (by the NBA) and our general knowledge of the NBA improving (as the general fanbase) the game should be doing a much, much better job at replicating the NBA. From ratings, tendencies, badges and animations.
    These aspects are largely ignored (or given little thought) especially with MyCareer/Park and MyTeam being the cash cow.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    Rashidi
    Starter = 80
    All-Star = 85
    Superstar = 90
    All-Time = 95
    It's a pretty straightforward scale
    that scale has Not been like this a few years ago. Dirk nowitzki has never been Rated higher than what? 85?prime George Hill, who was one of the Best 3 and d pgs of the League (conf. Finals Pacers) was rated 76. few years ago average starters Were Rated 75 or less. bench players more often than Not Were below 70.
    especially in Myleague they did Not seek to adjust to the New scale that you posted. mid 70 players often Times demand starter roles while being the worst Player on the roster.
    Mikelopedia
    Yeah i dont think that Siakam one is real. It doesnt fit the style of the screens 2k has been posting (up the nose, glossy look). Also, i dont follow 2ks ratings so I could be mistaken but didnt Siakam end the season as an 87 or something? Doubt they would lower his intangibles enough to drop him 2 manipulated overall points, twitter would explode.

    Oh......the Siakam pic is not from Steve/OS ?
    So it could be a fake then, a PC modded pic.....
    J_Posse
    We have this exact argument every year, but the gap between the best players (LeBron, Nephew, Durant & Giannis) and fringe players is huge in real life.

    There are 19 players rated 87-88.
    There are 3 players rated 89-90.
    We're not talking about superstars and fringe players.
    2K can and should do a better job of showing that gap in - game, but instead everyone is a 70+.

    The gap between 78-79 and 95 isn't big enough for you?
    Also, there is definitely a conscious effort to maintain a high baseline (70+) so players won't upset (especially on social media).

    Nah bruh. They upload stats. I've been doing this for 15 years and most 2K ratings/attributes since Stauff took over are mostly in line with mine.
    We all saw the shade sent Ronnie/2K's way by the likes of Ben Simmons & John Waal in the past.

    You mean 5-time All-Star John Wall, and 2nd year All-Star Ben Simmons? Didn't you just say there's supposed to be a wide gap between star and scrub?
    These aspects are largely ignored (or given little thought) especially with MyCareer/Park and MyTeam being the cash cow

    I'm privy to information I can't say anything about. I'm just gonna say your statement is without factual merit.
    Sixers Example
    2K Sports Ratings
    93 Joel Embiid (C): Two-Way Star
    88 Ben Simmons (PG): Two-Way Superstar
    86 Al Horford (C): Two-Way Star
    85 Tobias Harris (PF): Inside-Outside Threat
    80 Josh Richardson (SG): Lockdown Defender
    SECOND UNIT
    75 Trey Burke (PG): Playmaker
    73 Kyle O'Quinn (C): Tenacious Rebounder
    73 James Ennis (SF): Two-Way Wing
    73 Mike Scott (PF): Faceup Four
    72 Zhaire Smith (SG): Athletic Shooting Guard
    THIRD STRING
    74 Furkan Korkmaz (SF): Perimeter Threat
    72 Raul Neto (PG): Two-Way Point
    71 Jonah Bolden (PF): Interior Defender
    71 Shake Milton (SG): Skilled Shooter
    X (NC) Matisse Thybulle (SG): N/A
    TWO-WAY
    X Norvel Pelle (C): N/A
    X Marial Shayok (SF): N/A
    PRODUCTION
    75 Trey Burke: 16.5 PER, 52 TS%, 24 AST%, 25 USG%
    72 Raul Lopez: 12.9 PER, 54 TS%, 39 AST%, 18 USG%
    72 Zhaire Smith: 9.5 PER, 53 TS%, 12 AST%, 16 USG%
    71 Shake Milton: 9.3 PER, 48 TS%, 9 AST%, 15 USG%
    You can't reasonably tell me with a straight face that Trey Burke should be closer to the Zhaire Smith/Shake Milton tier than the Josh Richardson tier.
    You likewise can't reasonably tell me with a straight face that Raul Lopez is in the Zhaire/Milton tier either. This isn't favoritism. This is math.
    Real 2K Insider Ratings
    STARTERS
    92 (-1) Joel Embiid (C): Two-Way Star
    89 (+4) Tobias Harris (SF): Scoring Machine (from Inside-Outside Threat)
    88 (+2) Al Horford (PF): Two-Way Star
    86 (-2) Ben Simmons (PG): Two-Way Superstar
    82 (+2) Josh Richardson (SG): Two-Way Guard (from Lockdown Defender)
    SECOND UNIT
    80 (+5) Trey Burke (PG): Offensive Star (from Playmaker)
    79 (+6) Kyle O'Quinn (C): Tenacious Rebounder
    76 (+3) James Ennis (SF): Two-Way Wing
    75 (+2) Mike Scott (PF): Faceup Four
    74 (+2) Zhaire Smith (SG): Two-Way Guard (from Athletic Shooting Guard)
    THIRD STRING
    76 (+4) Raul Neto (PG): Playmaker (from Two-Way Point)
    74 (NC) Furkan Korkmaz (SF): Two-Way Wing (from Perimeter Threat)
    74 (+3) Jonah Bolden (PF): Interior Defender
    71 (NC) Matisse Thybulle (SG): Lockdown Defender
    70 (-1) Shake Milton (SG): Shooter (from Skilled Shooter)
    TWO-WAY
    71 (NC) Norvel Pelle (C): Tenacious Rebounder
    70 (NC) Marial Shayok (SF): Shooter
    Note that the 2nd unit is +17 and yet still comes nowhere close to the starters.
    2K Sports
    Starter: 86.4
    Second: 73.2
    Third: 72.0
    Real 2K Insider
    Starter: 87.4 Average
    Second: 76.8 Average
    Third: 73.0
    The Sixers are one of the league's best teams.
    If you legitimately think there's a 13-point gap between their starters and 2nd unit - with only a 1-point gap between 2nd unit and 3rd unit - there isn't anything more to discuss.
    2K Sports Point Guards (101 Total)
    95-99: 1%
    90-94: 3%
    85-89: 7%
    80-84: 8%
    75-79: 34%
    70-74: 32%
    65-69: 16%
    It's nonsense that the 80-84 range doesn't scale appropriately.
    Again, ratings are a math equation.
    Real 2K Insider Point Guards (92 Total)
    95-99: 0%
    90-94: 5%
    85-89: 9%
    80-84: 20%
    75-79: 42%
    70-74: 14%
    65-69: 10%
    Note that each range here effectively doubles, and reflects a pyramid rather than a tower.
    This is common sense. Players and people naturally scale incrementally, not in sudden bursts.
    The way 2K rates players now, there are only stars and scrubs, with no in-between. There very much is one.
    2K has 2018 Jazz starter Ricky Rubio at 77 OVR
    2K has 2019 Jazz backup Emmanuel Mudiay at 79 OVR
    Rubio would have started over Mudiay if they were on the same team.
    Rubio signed for 3Y-50M this offseason.
    Mudiay signed for the minimum.
    Rashidi
    There are 19 players rated 87-88.
    There are 3 players rated 89-90.
    We're not talking about superstars and fringe players.
    The gap between 78-79 and 95 isn't big enough for you?
    Nah bruh. They upload stats. I've been doing this for 15 years and most 2K ratings/attributes since Stauff took over are mostly in line with mine.
    You mean 5-time All-Star John Wall, and 2nd year All-Star Ben Simmons? Didn't you just say there's supposed to be a wide gap between star and scrub?
    I'm privy to information I can't say anything about. I'm just gonna say your statement is without factual merit.
    Dude, you are speaking about working within how they have the current system structured. I'm speaking to how everyone should be dropped down a few points (or more) to give the league a wider range from fringe, reserve, starter/role player, star to superstar. If they would remove the 'Intangible' rating most players would fall in - line with my thinking.
    Westbrook apparently JUST complained about his "Overall" and had his changed from 90 to 91. Obviously, Intangibles was likely fudged to give the appearance of "improving" his attributes.
    Also, I know for a fact (from assisting roster makers) that Stauff and whoever aids him glosses over many of the attributes or tendencies that don't directly effect sim stats. You, yourself, used to point this out in your blogs but somehow I'm the one in the wrong because I want even better accuracy, consistency and thought placed in "recreating" these pro athletes. And it isn't just ratings/tendencies but animations (almost everyone has "over the top" dunk packages), badges, etc., etc.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    Rashidi
    Sixers Example
    2K Sports Ratings
    93 Joel Embiid (C): Two-Way Star
    88 Ben Simmons (PG): Two-Way Superstar
    86 Al Horford (C): Two-Way Star
    85 Tobias Harris (PF): Inside-Outside Threat
    80 Josh Richardson (SG): Lockdown Defender
    SECOND UNIT
    75 Trey Burke (PG): Playmaker
    73 Kyle O'Quinn (C): Tenacious Rebounder
    73 James Ennis (SF): Two-Way Wing
    73 Mike Scott (PF): Faceup Four
    72 Zhaire Smith (SG): Athletic Shooting Guard
    THIRD STRING
    74 Furkan Korkmaz (SF): Perimeter Threat
    72 Raul Neto (PG): Two-Way Point
    71 Jonah Bolden (PF): Interior Defender
    71 Shake Milton (SG): Skilled Shooter
    X (NC) Matisse Thybulle (SG): N/A
    TWO-WAY
    X Norvel Pelle (C): N/A
    X Marial Shayok (SF): N/A
    PRODUCTION
    75 Trey Burke: 16.5 PER, 52 TS%, 24 AST%, 25 USG%
    72 Raul Lopez: 12.9 PER, 54 TS%, 39 AST%, 18 USG%
    72 Zhaire Smith: 9.5 PER, 53 TS%, 12 AST%, 16 USG%
    71 Shake Milton: 9.3 PER, 48 TS%, 9 AST%, 15 USG%
    You can't reasonably tell me with a straight face that Trey Burke should be closer to the Zhaire Smith/Shake Milton tier than the Josh Richardson tier.
    You likewise can't reasonably tell me with a straight face that Raul Lopez is in the Zhaire/Milton tier either. This isn't favoritism. This is math.
    Real 2K Insider Ratings
    STARTERS
    92 (-1) Joel Embiid (C): Two-Way Star
    89 (+4) Tobias Harris (SF): Scoring Machine (from Inside-Outside Threat)
    88 (+2) Al Horford (PF): Two-Way Star
    86 (-2) Ben Simmons (PG): Two-Way Superstar
    82 (+2) Josh Richardson (SG): Two-Way Guard (from Lockdown Defender)
    SECOND UNIT
    80 (+5) Trey Burke (PG): Offensive Star (from Playmaker)
    79 (+6) Kyle O'Quinn (C): Tenacious Rebounder
    76 (+3) James Ennis (SF): Two-Way Wing
    75 (+2) Mike Scott (PF): Faceup Four
    74 (+2) Zhaire Smith (SG): Two-Way Guard (from Athletic Shooting Guard)
    THIRD STRING
    76 (+4) Raul Neto (PG): Playmaker (from Two-Way Point)
    74 (NC) Furkan Korkmaz (SF): Two-Way Wing (from Perimeter Threat)
    74 (+3) Jonah Bolden (PF): Interior Defender
    71 (NC) Matisse Thybulle (SG): Lockdown Defender
    70 (-1) Shake Milton (SG): Shooter (from Skilled Shooter)
    TWO-WAY
    71 (NC) Norvel Pelle (C): Tenacious Rebounder
    70 (NC) Marial Shayok (SF): Shooter
    Note that the 2nd unit is +17 and yet still comes nowhere close to the starters.
    2K Sports
    Starter: 86.4
    Second: 73.2
    Third: 72.0
    Real 2K Insider
    Starter: 87.4 Average
    Second: 76.8 Average
    Third: 73.0
    The Sixers are one of the league's best teams.
    If you legitimately think there's a 13-point gap between their starters and 2nd unit - with only a 1-point gap between 2nd unit and 3rd unit - there isn't anything more to discuss.
    I love your passion and insight to all this, but please lower everyone's intangible rating league - wide and see what happens. Anyway, We are talking circles around one another at this point. I already know that you mostly focus on ratings & tendencies - especially these - which only effect sim stats.
    You do great work and have incredible insight, but if you believe the gap between an elite and marginal NBA player isn't extremely wide then I don't know what to tell you......
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    J_Posse
    You do great work and have incredible insight, but if you believe the gap between an elite and marginal NBA player isn't extremely wide then I don't know what to tell you......

    The gap between 95 and 75 isn't wide enough for you? LOL
    The point is there's a gap between Brook Lopez/Danny Green and Emmanuel Mudiay/Dennis Smith. There isn't an imaginary barrier keeping them all in the same boat.
    95 and 80 is still a pretty significant gap.
    Hell 95 and 85 is literally the difference between prime Dwyane Wade and Donovan Mitchell
    Rashidi
    The gap between 95 and 75 isn't wide enough for you? LOL
    The point is there's a gap between Brook Lopez/Danny Green and Emmanuel Mudiay/Dennis Smith. There isn't an imaginary barrier keeping them all in the same boat.
    95 and 80 is still a pretty significant gap.
    Hell 95 and 85 is literally the difference between prime Dwyane Wade and Donovan Mitchell
    And I love how you ignored everything I said, especially about focusing on things that only effect sim stats and lowering the intangibles rating to 25, so you could only focus on that point.
    Anyway, I'm done. A lot of great content creators will again be cleaning up all the stuff Stauff/2K gloss over for another year.....
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    My current PG ratings (NBA 2K19). Make of them what you will.
    POINT GUARD (95 Total)
    STARTER
    93 (-2) Stephen Curry (GSW): All-Around Superstar
    93 (+1) Kyrie Irving (BKN): Offensive Superstar
    92 (NC) Damian Lillard (POR): Offensive Superstar
    91 (+1) Russell Westbrook (HOU): All-Around Superstar
    91 (+4) Chris Paul (OKC): All-Around Superstar
    88 (NC) Kemba Walker (BOS): Athletic Playmaker (from Offensive Star)
    88 (+1) Mike Conley (UTA): Two-Way Superstar (from All-Around Superstar)
    88 (+2) Jrue Holiday (NOP): All-Around Superstar (from Two-Way Guard)
    87 (+3) Kyle Lowry (TOR): All-Around Superstar
    86 (-2) Ben Simmons (PHI): Two-Way Superstar
    86 (+3) De'Aaron Fox (SAC): Two-Way Superstar
    86 (-3) John Wall (WAS): Athletic Playmaker (from Two-Way Superstar)
    86 (NC) Ja Morant (MEM): Athletic Playmaker
    85 (NC) Eric Bledsoe (MIL): Two-Way Superstar
    84 (+8) D.J. Augustin (ORL): Offensive Star (from Crafty Playmaker)
    83 (+1) Jamal Murray (DEN): Athletic Playmaker (from Offensive Star)
    83 (-1) Trae Young (ATL): Athletic Playmaker (from Offensive Star)
    83 (+5) Jeff Teague (MIN): Playmaker
    83 (+3) Reggie Jackson (DET): Offensive Star (from All-Around Point Guard)
    82 (+5) Ricky Rubio (PHX): Two-Way Point
    81 (-2) Malcolm Brogdon (IND): Sharpshooter (from Skilled Sharpshooter)
    81 (NC) Darius Garland (CLE): Offensive Star
    81 (+2) Derrick White (SAS): Two-Way Point (from Playmaker)
    81 (+4) Elfrid Payton (NYK): Playmaker (from Two-Way Point)
    80 (NC) Goran Dragic (MIA): Two-Way Point (from Playmaker)
    79 (+4) Rajon Rondo (LAL): Playmaker (from Two-Way Point)
    79 (+4) Kris Dunn (CHI): Playmaker
    78 (+1) Patrick Beverley (LAC): Lockdown Defender
    78 (+1) Delon Wright (DAL): Perimeter Defender (from Crafty Playmaker)
    76 (+1) Terry Rozier III (CHA): Lockdown Defender (from All-Around Point Guard)
    SECOND STRING
    85 (NC) Louis Williams (LAC): Offensive Star
    83 (+1) Derrick Rose (DET): Offensive Superstar (from Athletic Playmaker)
    83 (+5) J.J. Barea (DAL): Playmaker (from Crafty Playmaker)
    81 (-1) Spencer Dinwiddie (BKN): Playmaker (from Crafty Playmaker)
    81 (+3) Monte Morris (DEN): Two-Way Star (from Offensive Star)
    80 (+5) Trey Burke (PHI): Offensive Star (from Playmaker)
    80 (+3) Dennis Smith Jr. (NYK): Athletic Playmaker
    79 (+2) Dennis Schroder (OKC): Offensive Star (from Playmaker)
    79 (+2) Lonzo Ball (NOP): Two-Way Point
    79 (+5) George Hill (MIL): Sharpshooter
    79 (NC) Emmanuel Mudiay (UTA): Athletic Playmaker (from Offensive Star)
    78 (NC) Justise Winslow (MIA): Lockdown Defender (from Two-Way Wing)
    78 (+2) Tomas Satoransky (CHI): Sharpshooter (from Playmaker)
    78 (NC) Dejounte Murray (SAS): Lockdown Defender (from Two-Way Star)
    78 (+2) Fred VanVleet (TOR): Two-Way Point (from Crafty Playmaker)
    78 (+2) T.J. McConnell (IND): Crafty Offensive Superstar (from Crafty Playmaker)
    78 (+2) Shabazz Napier (MIN): Playmaker
    77 (+3) Ish Smith (WAS): Playmaker
    77 (+3) Brad Wanamaker (BOS): Sharpshooter (from Offensive-Minded Point)
    76 (+3) Evan Turner (ATL): All-Around Point Guard (from Two-Way Wing)
    76 (+2) Quinn Cook (LAL): Sharpshooter (from Crafty Offensive-Minded Point)
    76 (+2) Cory Joseph (SAC): Perimeter Defender (from Crafty Offensive Star)
    76 (NC) Austin Rivers (HOU): Lockdown Defender
    76 (+3) Michael Carter-Williams (ORL) Two-Way Point (from Crafty Playmaker)
    75 (+2) Tyus Jones (MEM): Perimeter Defender (from Crafty Offensive-Minded Point)
    74 (+1) Matthew Dellavedova (CLE): Crafty Playmaker
    71 (+2) Devonte Graham (CHA): Playmaker (from Reliable Playmaker)
    71 (+1) Anfernee Simons (POR): Athletic Point (from Reliable Playmaker)
    70 (+1) Elie Okobo (PHX): Reliable Playmaker (from Pass-First Point)
    69 (-3) Jacob Evans III (GSW): Two-Way Point (from Two-Way Wing)
    THIRD STRING
    77 (+1) Yogi Ferrell (SAC): Sharpshooter
    76 (+4) Jalen Brunson (DAL): Elusive Finisher (from Playmaker)
    76 (+1) Patty Mills (SAS): Offensive-Minded Point (from Playmaker)
    76 (+4) Ryan Arcidiacono (CHI): Sharpshooter (from Crafty Offensive Star)
    76 (+4) Raul Neto (PHI): Playmaker (from Two-Way Point)
    76 (+2) Dante Exum (UTA): Playmaker
    76 (NC) Isaiah Thomas (WAS): Sharpshooter (from Athletic Playmaker)
    75 (+2) Aaron Holiday (IND): Lockdown Defender (from Crafty Playmaker)
    75 (NC) Carsen Edwards (BOS): Offensive-Minded Point
    75 (+2) Alex Caruso (LAL): Lockdown Defender (from Reliable Playmaker)
    75 (+1) Markelle Fultz (ORL): Pass-First Point (from Playmaker)
    75 (+3) Tim Frazier (DET): Playmaker
    75 (+2) Cameron Payne (TOR): Two-Way Point (from Crafty Offensive-Minded Point)
    75 (NC) Justin Robinson (WAS): Playmaker
    72 (NC) Frank Ntilikina (NYK): Lockdown Defender (from Two-Way Point)
    72 (+1) De'Anthony Melton (MEM): Lockdown Defender (from Perimeter Defender)
    71 (+1) Frank Jackson (NOP): Athletic Finisher (from Elite Athlete)
    71 (NC) Jalen Lecque (PHX): Athletic Point
    70 (+1) Tyrone Wallace (MIN): Two-Way Guard (from Two-Way Point)
    66 (-4) Jevon Carter (PHX): Perimeter Defender (from Lockdown Defender)
    TWO-WAY / G-LEAGUE
    76 (+2) Kadeem Allen (NYK): Playmaker
    76 (+3) Walter Lemon Jr (CHI): Athletic Playmaker (from Reliable Playmaker)
    74 (+2) Frank Mason (MIL): Playmaker (from Offensive-Minded Point)
    74 (NC) Tremont Waters (BOS): Playmaker
    72 (NC) Jaylen Hands (BKN): Playmaker
    71 (+4) Brandon Goodwin (ATL): Playmaker (from Reliable Playmaker)
    71 (NC) Jordan Bone (DET): Playmaker
    71 (NC) Justin Wright-Foreman (UTA): Offensive-Minded Point
    70 (NC) Nigel Williams-Goss (UTA): Crafty Offensive-Minded Point
    70 (+4) Jordan Loyd (TOR): Reliable Playmaker (from Shoot-First Point)
    66 (-1) Chris Chizzola (HOU): Two-Way Point (from )
    X (X) Quinndary Weatherspoon (SAS)
    X (X) Jordan McLaughlin (MIN)
    X (X) Josh Gray (NOP)
    X (X) Jared Harper (PHX)
    Honestly I loved the ratings in NBA Live 2004. Tracy McGrady was like a 92 and Stromile Swift was like a 42. 50 was basically the rating for mediocrity, 70 was a potential all-star, 80s were reserved for superstars, and 90s were only maybe 3 or 4 on the whole game for MVP type players. Was always my personal favorite ratings system.
    eaterofworlds888
    Honestly I loved the ratings in NBA Live 2004. Tracy McGrady was like a 92 and Stromile Swift was like a 42. 50 was basically the rating for mediocrity, 70 was a potential all-star, 80s were reserved for superstars, and 90s were only maybe 3 or 4 on the whole game for MVP type players. Was always my personal favorite ratings system.

    The reason that OVR system didn't work is the Overall is NOT not just player ability. It drives various AI systems in the game like lineups, free agent contracts, and trade value.
    The usefulness it provides to a user when evaluating skill level is a secondary / incidental function, rather than its primary use.
    Stromile Swift was a quality rotation player in his early years yet would have never sniffed the court or had a role anywhere close to what he had IRL with that kind of rating.
    This is where 2K effectively not having a mid-tier causes issues. The game will treat Ricky Rubio like a backup in free agency whereas IRL a team just gave him 17M per to start for them.
    I see they didn't make Fournier balding/receding in the front. Maybe him, Kostas Koufos and LeBron all got that hair treatment done?
    All their cyberfaces look great, TBH. I'd love to see someone who was missed last year (like Chimezie Metu on the Spurs) and what they look like scanned.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    I know everyone has their 2K art complaints, but they've nearly mastered expressions as far as sports games...
    Particularly smiling, which a lot of times just comes off as nightmarish in other titles
    The 24th Letter
    I know everyone has their 2K art complaints, but they've nearly mastered expressions as far as sports games...
    Particularly smiling, which a lot of times just comes off as nightmarish in other titles

    I agree. Definitely can see more emotions in the trailer where it looks believable. Also more eye movement where it looks the players and defenders are looking at the ball
    From what I can tell there must be some sort of slider for short length. Most players have same length as 19 but there is definitely players wearing shorter shorts in current uniforms in the trailer
    Schnoodle321
    From what I can tell there must be some sort of slider for short length. Most players have same length as 19 but there is definitely players wearing shorter shorts in current uniforms in the trailer

    I hope so, would be a good addition.
    The screenshots look great to me. If we indeed have 2k14 lighting then its all good. Now that I have learned the beauty of sliders, all we need is to get that loose ball cheese straight. ha.
    MoneyOvaHuds
    Nice another knick....too bad his head is still huge. I wonder if DSJ got a new scan.
    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
    Goffs
    Nice another knick....too bad his head is still huge. I wonder if DSJ got a new scan.
    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

    Didn't look like DSJ had a new scan, but they updated his hair based on the Zion trailer.
    CaVsFaN2273
    You guys think it's time to have certain players to have bigger hands or feet? Right now it's just default size all across the board.

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
    Goffs
    You guys think it's time to have certain players to have bigger hands or feet? Right now it's just default size all across the board.

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

    Yes I have been wondering that for the past few years. It could have impact on game play
    Goffs
    Nice another knick....too bad his head is still huge. I wonder if DSJ got a new scan.
    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

    Speaking of head size, I wonder if they'll give Tony Allen a regular size head this time. His head has shrank since 2k18 in my experience.
    Man sometimes I sit in awe at the quality of the visuals before a 2K releases.... the standard is unreal.
    I may die of curiosity thinking about what possibly could come in 2K21.....

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