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It Came From the Forums: Do HOF Badges and Badge Stacking Need to Go in NBA 2K?

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It Came From the Forums: Do HOF Badges and Badge Stacking Need to Go in NBA 2K?

It feels like NBA 2K as a franchise is at a bit of a crossroads this year. Overall, there has been much more of a split in the community when it comes to MyPlayer/MyPark/Pro-Am. Well, I should say the overall community seems somewhat split because a majority of OS folks seem to believe NBA 2K badge stacking and HOF badges are not helping the game. I tend to agree with the community on this point.

This stems from the general premise that the game does not come off as a simulation in this badge-heavy environment. Players feel too similar, and it also feels like certain things are “must have” to survive out there in five-on-five games. So, the sinister side of me believes this looks more like a money grab where the game is forcing you to play X number of hours to get certain badges, or buy some sweet, sweet VC to quicken that pace. Plus, since there is no clear “re-spec” feature, you have to go back through this process if you create a new player.

But before I go on, let me explain badge stacking real quick.

For those who don’t know what badge stacking even is, it’s simple enough to explain. You can head to NBA2K Lab for some of the general categories, but more or less the “stacking” has to do with multiple badges being able to impact one situation. So if you have Corner Specialist and Catch and Shoot badges, plus you get the ball from a player with a Dimer badge, then this could stack to make a shot even easier for you to make.

In effect, it makes getting a green release very simple, and it plays into the general concept of picking a “meta” shot type and tying it to these badges to remove some of the difficulty of making shots. On top of that, badge stacking has become more of a focus this year because more badges were added to the game.

As for HOF badges, it’s a similar concept as badge stacking for why the OS community as a whole does not like them. In short, it really hammers home the idea of “must-have” badges being silly. As a rim protector, you feel like you need to have HOF Intimidator. This is something I recently touched on with a video by Kingslayer Hoops, and it’s just one instance where a HOF badge feels required to compete at a remotely high level.

The same concept of sinking time into the game applies here. Not only do you need to get the badge, you then need to get it to HOF to really feel like you have taken the next step. In all, it just feels like a lot of work, and all to create a player archetype that a ton of other people are already using. To put it another way, you’re sinking a ton of time into the game not to make your player an individual, rather you’re just trying to be a part of the crowd.

So, if you have thoughts on this topic, head over to the thread and read through it before jumping in with your own viewpoint.

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Discussion
  1. The most bizarre part is that badges actually raise the overall of a player. I found this out while creating a roster, but the more badges you add, the higher the overall of the player goes. Overall, of course, means little to nothing, but this fact seems to be indicative of how vital badges are to how well a player plays rather than relying solely on ratings as in the past.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    These badges are killing any realism of the game (does 2K even care about that anymore though?) and completely change how the game is played - even in the 2K League, because they are the reason for trash 5 out 'basketball'. 5 out doesn't consistently exist in the REAL NBA because in the REAL NBA you don't have GODLIKE shooters everywhere. This is why help defenders are petrified to play help defense because if you play too much help D, the 3 guy will shoot 9 for 10 on 3's. Super realistic. Even once a generation talent like Curry doesn't hit that.
    This has become a legacy issue. It's the reason we constantly see these trash squads play 5 out ('cause it's easy and God-forbid they actually have to learn any other basketball strategy) with the PG holding the ball 20 sec til he can trigger some animation. Fools these bums into thinking they have any skill, when actually it's the return of demigod shooters with this new archetype system (any player who has fast speed, elite handles, and elite shooting is overpowered), overpowered shooters, etc.
    Also who's idea was it that "Unpluckable" should be a badge. Let's keep taking the skill out of the user's hands, and all you have to do is equip a badge to cover for you. Way to increase the skill gap 2K.
    Then there's badge stacking. HOF Dimer + HOF Deadeye + HOF Catch & Shoot. Yeah that's hella realistic. When you stack these badges, it barely even matters what kind of defense is being played, contested or not. Oh wait, a defender closing out and contesting a shot is GOOD for the Deadeye Badge! What kind of azz-backwards logic is that? Only in 2K...
    Fix your game 2K! How many years in a row smh.

    I'm not a big fan of the HOF level badges either. I think they're too powerful in a lot of cases and think Gold should be the highest tier of badges. However, from my understanding, a defender closing out and contesting your shot would not mean you are more likely to make the shot. You always have a better chance of making a wide open shot. The deadeye badge just reduces the normal penalty you would suffer for shooting a contested shot (when the defender closes out late). But you're still going to suffer more of a penalty than if you took an open shot. At least, that's my understanding for how the deadeye badge works.
    mb625
    The most bizarre part is that badges actually raise the overall of a player. I found this out while creating a roster, but the more badges you add, the higher the overall of the player goes. Overall, of course, means little to nothing, but this fact seems to be indicative of how vital badges are to how well a player plays rather than relying solely on ratings as in the past.
    For real? I did not know that. Was it like that last year with badges increasing the overall?
    Pokes404
    I'm not a big fan of the HOF level badges either. I think they're too powerful in a lot of cases and think Gold should be the highest tier of badges. However, from my understanding, a defender closing out and contesting your shot would not mean you are more likely to make the shot. You always have a better chance of making a wide open shot. The deadeye badge just reduces the normal penalty you would suffer for shooting a contested shot (when the defender closes out late). But you're still going to suffer more of a penalty than if you took an open shot. At least, that's my understanding for how the deadeye badge works.
    That is true, but the shooter's probability has already been boosted before the defender got there. It's like having a base rating of 85, then badges boosts it to 97, and your defender's closeout drops it only to 96 due to the deadeye badge. That shooter still has a high chance of making that shot without an excellent release.
    ksuttonjr76
    For real? I did not know that. Was it like that last year with badges increasing the overall?

    I said this early on lol No one believe me lol. They probably hide the ratings and just made them badges. Making badges very very important.
    MyPlayer modes are for E-Sports not realism. That's been made pretty clear for 2 years now. It's so similar to a MOBA now with how you can specialize your player. If it didn't take so long to make builds I could make some very fun builds based on real playstyles.
    The E-Sport/MOBA feel that mode is going for values build specialization over realism so I doubt any overpowered offensive, defensive, or playmaking badges are going anywhere anytime soon.
    REC, Pro-Am, and Park is going to have to go the way of sim leagues for a realism experience. Just like how Ranked Matches back in the day were full of the "win at all costs" mindset, MyCareer online modes are all about winning by any means.
    On a lighter note, watching the pros play against each other can be hilarious. I don't know whether it's HOF deadeye or HOF steady shooter, but guys are greening contested 3s with 2 defenders(both having intimidator badges) in the area like it's nothing now. I only see the game becoming more "skill-based" like this.
    Here's the vid of the contested 3s btw.
    This game will never be balanced imo.
    2k should just Take out badges and remove archetypes. Let's get a basic 2k game where everybody is on an "even" playing field. I'd love to see what the complaints would be about if that happened.
    ksuttonjr76
    That is true, but the shooter's probability has already been boosted before the defender got there. It's like having a base rating of 85, then badges boosts it to 97, and your defender's closeout drops it only to 96 due to the deadeye badge. That shooter still has a high chance of making that shot without an excellent release.

    Well, yeah. I wasn't talking about all badges, and I already stated that I'm not a fan of HOF badges because most of them are too powerful. I was just pointing out that things like deadeye and giant slayer don't boost attributes as much as they reduce penalties. Because of that, it wouldn't be better to take a contested shot with deadeye than it would to take an open shot.
    Pokes404
    Well, yeah. I wasn't talking about all badges, and I already stated that I'm not a fan of HOF badges because most of them are too powerful. I was just pointing out that things like deadeye and giant slayer don't boost attributes as much as they reduce penalties. Because of that, it wouldn't be better to take a contested shot with deadeye than it would to take an open shot.

    This. Steady Shooter is another one. Regardless of deadeye, steady shooter etc. you're getting punished for taking a contested shot. Those badges aren't going to help you much with good defenders on you. Steady Shooter is absolutely garbage and I think Deadeye is a waste of space also. You can still green pretty easily on defenders closing out. If it's a good shot contest you're airballing or hitting the front of the rim majority of the time. I have seen some contested shots going in but not at a high rate like it was last year.
    I'm pretty sure the bonuses of deadeye and steady shooter matter a lot when you consider how 2k penalizes your shot. The more contested you are the lower chance you have to green the shot right?
    So if you remove that penalty as much as possible with HOF steady shooter and deadeye then the green window increases by a wide margin right?
    So to a player that has a "comp" jumpshot with quickdraw that can green 100% of the shots he takes those badges are highly valuable. Even a lockdown with HOF clamps and intimidator doesn't stand a chance against that.
    Those badges might not have mattered as much when 100% green release success didn't exist but they definitely matter now. Keeping that green window as close as possible to an open shot has these dudes hitting 90% of shots that aren't 100% smothered. Sometimes they even hit the smothered shots.
    This is the "skill-gap" that they all wanted. If you have the "skill" to time a perfect release then the shot should go in. 2k listened to them. I blame Shookyah.
    BasketBalla21
    MyPlayer modes are for E-Sports not realism. That's been made pretty clear for 2 years now. It's so similar to a MOBA now with how you can specialize your player. If it didn't take so long to make builds I could make some very fun builds based on real playstyles.
    The E-Sport/MOBA feel that mode is going for values build specialization over realism so I doubt any overpowered offensive, defensive, or playmaking badges are going anywhere anytime soon.
    REC, Pro-Am, and Park is going to have to go the way of sim leagues for a realism experience. Just like how Ranked Matches back in the day were full of the "win at all costs" mindset, MyCareer online modes are all about winning by any means.
    On a lighter note, watching the pros play against each other can be hilarious. I don't know whether it's HOF deadeye or HOF steady shooter, but guys are greening contested 3s with 2 defenders(both having intimidator badges) in the area like it's nothing now. I only see the game becoming more "skill-based" like this.
    Here's the vid of the contested 3s btw.

    Soooooo...the entire offense is players in the corners, one player on the wing opposite the ballhandler, and the C keeps setting screens???????
    My God...that has to be boring playing like that all the time.
    BasketBalla21
    I'm pretty sure the bonuses of deadeye and steady shooter matter a lot when you consider how 2k penalizes your shot. The more contested you are the lower chance you have to green the shot right?
    So if you remove that penalty as much as possible with HOF steady shooter and deadeye then the green window increases by a wide margin right?
    So to a player that has a "comp" jumpshot with quickdraw that can green 100% of the shots he takes those badges are highly valuable. Even a lockdown with HOF clamps and intimidator doesn't stand a chance against that.
    Those badges might not have mattered as much when 100% green release success didn't exist but they definitely matter now. Keeping that green window as close as possible to an open shot has these dudes hitting 90% of shots that aren't 100% smothered. Sometimes they even hit the smothered shots.
    This is the "skill-gap" that they all wanted. If you have the "skill" to time a perfect release then the shot should go in. 2k listened to them. I blame Shookyah.

    What I'm saying is regardless if a player has on Steady Shooter (which 99% of the community doesn't because it's a horrible badge) or Deadeye, a good solid contest is going to cancel those badges out. I don't care what tier you have Deadeye on if you're smothered you're going to miss way more than make. Occasionally you may see a contested green here and there but it doesn't occur every single time.
    If you actually play this game you'd know how OP intimidator is. Let's not even factor that in because you're damn sure going to have a hard time with someone contesting your shots with that badge on HOF.
    The biggest flaw to me is the shot contest system rather than the badges. 2 years in a row it has been flawed. As for "Comp", everybody turned into cones when archetypes was introduced to the game. SMH
    ksuttonjr76
    For real? I did not know that. Was it like that last year with badges increasing the overall?
    Not that I'm aware of. Next time I'm working on my fictional MyLeague roster, I'll keep a video and show it. I've seen an 87 go all the way up to a 92 from badges
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Korrupted
    What I'm saying is regardless if a player has on Steady Shooter (which 99% of the community doesn't because it's a horrible badge) or Deadeye, a good solid contest is going to cancel those badges out. I don't care what tier you have Deadeye on if you're smothered you're going to miss way more than make. Occasionally you may see a contested green here and there but it doesn't occur every single time.
    If you actually play this game you'd know how OP intimidator is. Let's not even factor that in because you're damn sure going to have a hard time with someone contesting your shots with that badge on HOF.
    The biggest flaw to me is the shot contest system rather than the badges. 2 years in a row it has been flawed. As for "Comp", everybody turned into cones when archetypes was introduced to the game. SMH

    You have to keep up with player trends. Comp players are hitting shots consistently over badged up lockdowns now. The video I linked is proof enough. The MP community follows what these comp players do and when the game first came out they didn't like steady shooter because they hadn't found their jumpshots yet.
    Now they have found them and you literally can't stop them consistently unless you are smothering them before they shoot. Add in tight handles and ankle breaker that move you out of position involuntarily and you have a big problem to deal with.
    We're not talking about the average REC players here that just play for fun. We're talking about the players that follow the trend these comp players set(and the comp players themselves). You don't realize how hard it is to stop until you play against it. If you had you wouldn't be saying deadeye and steady shooter don't matter. They matter a ton.
    Yeah i have Gold intimidator badge with gold clamps and I've had one person green while i was in front of them. I'm a 6'7 SF so i get put at the 4 a lot in rec. Those badges will make post scorers who are almost a foot taller miss with regularity. It's actually pretty funny because if he's not a rebounding archetype (higher than 85 which is what i have) I'm often skying over them with only silver rebound chaser. I get messages all the time saying i got a fake build.
    I highly recommend playing a defensive build this year as stepping on people on the perimeter didn't feel as good last year. I really hope they don't change or nerf those badges..
    BasketBalla21
    You have to keep up with player trends. Comp players are hitting shots consistently over badged up lockdowns now. The video I linked is proof enough. The MP community follows what these comp players do and when the game first came out they didn't like steady shooter because they hadn't found their jumpshots yet.
    Now they have found them and you literally can't stop them consistently unless you are smothering them before they shoot. Add in tight handles and ankle breaker that move you out of position involuntarily and you have a big problem to deal with.
    We're not talking about the average REC players here that just play for fun. We're talking about the players that follow the trend these comp players set(and the comp players themselves). You don't realize how hard it is to stop until you play against it. If you had you wouldn't be saying deadeye and steady shooter don't matter. They matter a ton.

    They didnt understand the badge or its description at first and 2klabs didn't give it a good review. My cousin uses hof steady on his 3 level scorer and he can green shots in a defenders eye at times..80% contests.
    BasketBalla21
    You have to keep up with player trends. Comp players are hitting shots consistently over badged up lockdowns now. The video I linked is proof enough. The MP community follows what these comp players do and when the game first came out they didn't like steady shooter because they hadn't found their jumpshots yet.
    Now they have found them and you literally can't stop them consistently unless you are smothering them before they shoot. Add in tight handles and ankle breaker that move you out of position involuntarily and you have a big problem to deal with.
    We're not talking about the average REC players here that just play for fun. We're talking about the players that follow the trend these comp players set(and the comp players themselves). You don't realize how hard it is to stop until you play against it. If you had you wouldn't be saying deadeye and steady shooter don't matter. They matter a ton.

    I’ve been playing Comp PRO-Am since 2k16 bruh. I play in WR leagues and was heavy in MPBA in 17 and 18. I’m fully aware of trends and META’s in 2k. Tune into some WR games late tonight and see how many contested shots people make. Our PG is the only person who uses Deadeye and absolutely no one on our squad uses steady shooter. We do perfectly fine without either of them.
    The percentage of “comp” players in 2k is only a small %. People talk like everybody is out here making smothered greens when in reality they’re not. There are so many players cards with horrible win %’s and low shooting %’s. The game isn’t great at all but I think it runs deeper than badges when people complain. To each it’s own though.
    Ghostf4cekhila1234
    A thread bashing badges from people who don't know how they actually work amazing
    Ehh... I know how they work. Doesn't mean that a lot of them are necessary. For instance, a catch and shoot badge shouldn't need to be present for a good shooter to shoot well given that it's already governed by ratings. I'd argue that things like Deadeye are actually helpful badges to have because I've seen how they effect those contested shots first hand. Good shooters shoot well even with a hand in their face, but at the same time, it doesn't make it automatic. There are way too many badges and many of them are redundant, but some are needful to differentiate players.
    I play in an online MyLeague that removed many badges but kept around half and I can safely say that gameplay is super balanced when you start taking those redundant and kind of cheesy/unrealistic badges (think Flexible and Green Machine) out while retaining the ones that actually differentiate the stars of the league.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    loso_34
    They didnt understand the badge or its description at first and 2klabs didn't give it a good review. My cousin uses hof steady on his 3 level scorer and he can green shots in a defenders eye at times..80% contests.

    Yeah we where lead wrong about that badge from everyone I have a theory on how it could be one of the top badges for certain types of players
    Korrupted
    I’ve been playing Comp PRO-Am since 2k16 bruh. I play in WR leagues and was heavy in MPBA in 17 and 18. I’m fully aware of trends and META’s in 2k. Tune into some WR games late tonight and see how many contested shots people make. Our PG is the only person who uses Deadeye and absolutely no one on our squad uses steady shooter. We do perfectly fine without either of them.
    The percentage of “comp” players in 2k is only a small %. People talk like everybody is out here making smothered greens when in reality they’re not. There are so many players cards with horrible win %’s and low shooting %’s. The game isn’t great at all but I think it runs deeper than badges when people complain. To each it’s own though.

    I'm not complaining, I just disagree with you saying those 2 badges don't matter. You play comp so you should know when you play a guy like I showed you in that vid you have to play perfect or it's a guaranteed 3. Actually, do you even play lock? Did you even guard scorers? 2k20 is nothing like 17 & 18 from a gameplay perspective.
    Now adjust that skill level down to REC where a guy has that playstyle down with the same build and jumpshot success. You're telling me people online are just going to contest him into missing? I've seen it, they don't. Why? Because with HOF hit a shot badges you can't just right stick contest from a foot or two away. If they get any space you have to guess jump at them. If they shoot it, then you get a stop, but if they don't you gave up your position and they get an open 3.
    The badges matter, that playstyle wouldn't exist without them.
    loso_34
    They didnt understand the badge or its description at first and 2klabs didn't give it a good review. My cousin uses hof steady on his 3 level scorer and he can green shots in a defenders eye at times..80% contests.
    Given that the only guy who takes those kind of threes (I'm using very tight, defender 0-2 feet away) frequently, Damian Lillard, hits those shots at a 23.5 percent clip, doesn't giving even a possibility of a guaranteed make on those kinds of shots make this badge horrible for the game? I mean honestly, the fact that some folks defend these badges is a little insane. I can understand giving a little higher make percentage over someone who doesn't have the badge, but that is way too much.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Theyll never remove shooting badges cause it makes your average bum better > feel better > spend more time ingame > possibly spend more money...
    Shooting is broken in general. With my perimeter lockdown with a 65 three im hitting 3s regularly, if im open about 60%. It should never ever be that way. If attributes dont matter then remove them and clearly state that shooting is based on timing 100% and deal with the consequences that this game has/will become an arcade game.
    Ghostf4cekhila1234
    A thread bashing badges from people who don't know how they actually work amazing

    All you have to do is
    1) Look at the gameplay results
    2) Hmm why does EVERY comp team play 5 out
    3) Compare these results with the real NBA
    When you compare a comp pro am game to the real NBA, you realize, "wow this is not basketball". This is 100% due to the archetype system being susceptible to OP jumpers, OP builds, OP ratings, OP badges, etc. 2K can't say no to these things 'cause these things sell the game. "Make this build and you'll be a 2k gawd!" Say whatever you want, what we are seeing in the nba 2k league etc does not do a very good job representing the dynamics of real basketball.
    I say scrap all the badges that encourage 5 out. I think many people can agree it's boring as hell basketball.
    good for 5 out:
    Handles for Days
    Unpluckable
    Deep Shot Deadeye
    Limitless Range
    2K needs to adapt to the gameplay the same way the real NBA does. When scoring was down, they got rid of hand checking. Well guess what 2K, everyone has been playing 5 out now for years. There's a reason for that - 'cause the archetype system and game dynamics allows it. So change the crap that allows that style of play. Pretty simple.
    3ShowTime2
    Theyll never remove shooting badges cause it makes your average bum better > feel better > spend more time ingame > possibly spend more money...

    Pretty much. I'd tell any noob to make a shooter and spot up and just have people set him up. He'll score 15 just if he knows how to press the shoot button.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    Such boring basketball... Buncha cones just standing in the corner while they spam 1 play and the same moves over and over.

    Yep, even when watching Twitch streams of people who are not especially good it often devolves into nothing but people hunting for 3's over and over and making them look like layups.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks

    When you compare a comp pro am game to the real NBA, you realize, "wow this is not basketball". This is 100% due to the archetype system being susceptible to OP jumpers, OP builds, OP ratings, OP badges, etc. 2K can't say no to these things 'cause these things sell the game. "Make this build and you'll be a 2k gawd!" Say whatever you want, what we are seeing in the nba 2k league etc does not do a very good job representing the dynamics of real basketball.

    Agreed. Even a cursory search on Youtube will turn up loads of videos with titles like "Best Jumper!Green Every Shot!","Best Crossover To Break Ankles!", "This Build Is Unstoppable!", and so on.Applying all these "RPG Mechanics" is leading to something more resembling Dungeons& Dragons with a basketball than even amatuer level basketball, much less the NBA.
    RPG mechanics for the neutrals :mad:. I fear that the next generation of 2K will devolve further into something resembling a mobile game cash grab with some gameplay features. Overreacting here obviously but still I'm upset and annoyed with this timeline.
    https://twitter.com/WITNESS_97/status/1192506462498484224
    5 out? Check
    Spammy speed boost to spammy dribble move? Check
    Shoot 5 feet behind the line with a lightning fast release? Check
    Then the dude says "Chess not checkers" LMAO
    More like Checkmate 2K... your "sim" game is ARCADE. You never go full arcade. But that's what
    sells I guess? Even though people left NBA Live because of it.
    This is what unrealism does (OP animations, badges, gameplay etc).
    It warps and inflates the egos of average players or worse, because they can spam some moves or do unrealistic gameplay and get rewarded for it. This ain't basketball. Real "chess" comparisons would be seeing a play sequence several steps in advance dynamically using IQ (think Jason Kidd or Larry Bird), or an entire game end-result many steps in advance.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    https://twitter.com/WITNESS_97/status/1192506462498484224
    5 out? Check
    Spammy speed boost to spammy dribble move? Check
    Shoot 5 feet behind the line with a lightning fast release? Check
    Then the dude says "Chess not checkers" LMAO
    More like Checkmate 2K... your "sim" game is ARCADE. You never go full arcade. But that's what
    sells I guess? Even though people left NBA Live because of it.
    This is what unrealism does (OP animations, badges, gameplay etc).
    It warps and inflates the egos of average players or worse, because they can spam some moves or do unrealistic gameplay and get rewarded for it. This ain't basketball. Real "chess" comparisons would be seeing a play sequence several steps in advance dynamically using IQ (think Jason Kidd or Larry Bird), or an entire game end-result many steps in advance.

    If you actually played "Comp" Pro-Am you'd know majority of comp teams don't run 5 out. 5 out hasn't really been popular since 2k18. You may see it here and there but it's not ran as often as it used to be. I'm not sure what all the crying is about. On top of that damn near every comp team has a lock down build on their squad so 5 out basketball is pretty much a dead mission if your lock is somewhat decent. So what if people are shooting limitless 3's and using "OP" builds etc. It's been a problem with the game for a couple years now and 2k hasn't done anything about it. Rather than keep crying and complaining on deaf ears make the proper adjustments and find ways to win. That's what good players do. There are plenty of squads out here not following META's and still winning.
    Promoting someone to make a shooter and be a cone is a bad idea as well lol. You're not getting many looks against a comp team being a cone and if you don't have a full squad to run with consistently you're no good because these randoms don't have the IQ to facilitate. I'll keep saying it, 2k should just strip badges and archetypes and let everybody be on a level playing field. Even with that set up I'm sure people will run to OS and reddit to cry and complain. SMH
    Korrupted
    If you actually played "Comp" Pro-Am you'd know majority of comp teams don't run 5 out. 5 out hasn't really been popular since 2k18. You may see it here and there but it's not ran as often as it used to be. I'm not sure what all the crying is about. On top of that damn near every comp team has a lock down build on their squad so 5 out basketball is pretty much a dead mission if your lock is somewhat decent. So what if people are shooting limitless 3's and using "OP" builds etc. It's been a problem with the game for a couple years now and 2k hasn't done anything about it. Rather than keep crying and complaining on deaf ears make the proper adjustments and find ways to win. That's what good players do. There are plenty of squads out here not following META's and still winning.
    Promoting someone to make a shooter and be a cone is a bad idea as well lol. You're not getting many looks against a comp team being a cone and if you don't have a full squad to run with consistently you're no good because these randoms don't have the IQ to facilitate. I'll keep saying it, 2k should just strip badges and archetypes and let everybody be on a level playing field. Even with that set up I'm sure people will run to OS and reddit to cry and complain. SMH

    ^stop it. the game is arcadey as can be without calling it nba jams. and the best someone can come up with is "get better". Stop it.
    You care more about winning than the actual game of basketball being reflected in this game. thats your choice. not mine. I would rather lose 5 games in a row playing good competition playing real basketball than win 5 games in a row playing nba jams lite aka nba 2k20.
    splashmountain
    ^stop it. the game is arcadey as can be without calling it nba jams. and the best someone can come up with is "get better". Stop it.
    You care more about winning than the actual game of basketball being reflected in this game. thats your choice. not mine. I would rather lose 5 games in a row playing good competition playing real basketball than win 5 games in a row playing nba jams lite aka nba 2k20.

    What he really meant to say was "Cheese back harder".
    Korrupted
    If you actually played "Comp" Pro-Am you'd know majority of comp teams don't run 5 out. 5 out hasn't really been popular since 2k18. You may see it here and there but it's not ran as often as it used to be. I'm not sure what all the crying is about. On top of that damn near every comp team has a lock down build on their squad so 5 out basketball is pretty much a dead mission if your lock is somewhat decent. So what if people are shooting limitless 3's and using "OP" builds etc. It's been a problem with the game for a couple years now and 2k hasn't done anything about it. Rather than keep crying and complaining on deaf ears make the proper adjustments and find ways to win. That's what good players do. There are plenty of squads out here not following META's and still winning.
    Promoting someone to make a shooter and be a cone is a bad idea as well lol. You're not getting many looks against a comp team being a cone and if you don't have a full squad to run with consistently you're no good because these randoms don't have the IQ to facilitate. I'll keep saying it, 2k should just strip badges and archetypes and let everybody be on a level playing field. Even with that set up I'm sure people will run to OS and reddit to cry and complain. SMH

    This aint it chief. I would also love to see some of these squads that are "not following the meta and winning"
    splashmountain
    ^stop it. the game is arcadey as can be without calling it nba jams. and the best someone can come up with is "get better". Stop it.
    You care more about winning than the actual game of basketball being reflected in this game. thats your choice. not mine. I would rather lose 5 games in a row playing good competition playing real basketball than win 5 games in a row playing nba jams lite aka nba 2k20.

    That's your decision man. There's players just smart enough to make the proper adjustments whether it's sim or not. This is coming from a Sim guy himself. Half of the time you don't even have to cheese to beat these clueless players in the community. Simple basketball is effective basketball but some don't understand fundamentals or have the skill to do it in a video game. For others basic fundamentals may not work. It ultimately comes down to who you match up with and their play style. I understand the complaints but until 2k does something about you have to work with what you have. Crying isn't going to do much about it. I still believe 2k could make the most Sim game possible and people will still come up with excuses and complain as to why they're getting their asses handed to them on a regular.
    shayellis
    This aint it chief. I would also love to see some of these squads that are "not following the meta and winning"

    There's plenty of teams not following META's whether it be park, 3v3 Pro-AM, 5v5, JRC etc. You'll see different line ups and play styles from time to time. Not everybody was running 3 LDD's in Pro-AM last year. Not everybody badge set up is the same this year with every single build. Not every team is running 5 out basketball. You'll notice certain differences if you actually play the game. The biggest trend I see is that OP behind the back and I blame 2k for stripping down the dribbling system this year. If people just want to continue to lose rather than readjust do as you please. Even while winning I don’t agree with the way the game plays but until it’s fixed there’s nothing I can do about it. I know for a fact me and my guys are winning regardless of whatever changes they make. To each its own though.
    Korrupted
    Seems like you lose a lot because you constantly come to the boards crying about Glass cleaners and such. That's your decision man. There's players just smart enough to make the proper adjustments whether it's sim or not. This is coming from a Sim guy himself. Half of the time you don't even have to cheese to beat these clueless players in the community. Simple basketball is effective basketball but some don't understand fundamentals or have the skill to do it in a video game. For others basic fundamentals may not work. It ultimately comes down to who you match up with and their play style. I understand the complaints but until 2k does something about you have to work with what you have. Crying isn't going to do much about it. I still believe 2k could make the most Sim game possible and people will still come up with excuses and complain as to why they're getting their asses handed to them on a regular.
    There's plenty of teams not following META's whether it be park, 3v3 Pro-AM, 5v5, JRC etc. You'll see different line ups and play styles from time to time. Not everybody was running 3 LDD's in Pro-AM last year. Not everybody badge set up is the same this year with every single build. Not every team is running 5 out basketball. You'll notice certain differences if you actually play the game. The biggest trend I see is that OP behind the back and I blame 2k for stripping down the dribbling system this year. If people just want to continue to lose rather than readjust do as you please. Even while winning I don’t agree with the way the game plays but until it’s fixed there’s nothing I can do about it. I know for a fact me and my guys are winning regardless of whatever changes they make. To each its own though.

    Do you have any footage of these Anti Meta teams?
    shayellis
    Do you have any footage of these Anti Meta teams?

    What game mode you need footage or screenshots of chief? We’re resetting our team tonight due to lack of matchmaking so we should be getting games pretty easily.
    Just so I’m aware every team that we play should be running 5 out, hitting contested shots, shooting nothing but limitless 3’s, and all running the same exact line up correct?
    Korrupted
    What game mode you need footage or screenshots of chief? We’re resetting our team tonight due to lack of matchmaking so we should be getting games pretty easily.
    Just so I’m aware every team that we play should be running 5 out, hitting contested shots, shooting nothing but limitless 3’s, and all running the same exact line up correct?

    I would love to see Pro Am footage of these teams that don't play "meta ball" and win. I think the meta is 4 out 1 in pick and roll down the middle, or sometimes 5 out with the big man shooting 3s, two men camping in the corners, players shooting a bunch of 3s. Point guard spamming moves around a pick. Teams have different variations of lineups but the same builds few builds. It's repetitive and corny and that's why people don't watch the 2k league
    Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app
    shayellis
    I would love to see Pro Am footage of these teams that don't play "meta ball" and win. I think the meta is 4 out 1 in pick and roll down the middle, or sometimes 5 out with the big man shooting 3s, two men camping in the corners, players shooting a bunch of 3s. Point guard spamming moves around a pick. Teams have different variations of lineups but the same builds few builds. It's repetitive and corny and that's why people don't watch the 2k league
    Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app

    So it’s not just 5 out basketball like someone previously stated lol. That’s all I was getting at. There’s actually some squads who have designed plays but you don’t come across them often.
    This game has been that way since Archetypes got introduced to the game. You can’t just come down the court and say here sharpshooter, cook up. The community wanted archetypes and now that they have them there’s nothing but problems. I find saying you need to play this way to win or you must run a particular lineup to win is crazy. There are other alternatives.
    IMO if 2k reduced the speed of the Tier 3 'Momentum' Behind the Back dribble and ditched Green Releases/Shot Timing and used Real FG% you'd have a much wider variety of ways to play at the top tier and be sucessfull.
    Korrupted
    If you actually played "Comp" Pro-Am you'd know majority of comp teams don't run 5 out. 5 out hasn't really been popular since 2k18. You may see it here and there but it's not ran as often as it used to be. I'm not sure what all the crying is about. On top of that damn near every comp team has a lock down build on their squad so 5 out basketball is pretty much a dead mission if your lock is somewhat decent. So what if people are shooting limitless 3's and using "OP" builds etc. It's been a problem with the game for a couple years now and 2k hasn't done anything about it. Rather than keep crying and complaining on deaf ears make the proper adjustments and find ways to win. That's what good players do. There are plenty of squads out here not following META's and still winning.
    Promoting someone to make a shooter and be a cone is a bad idea as well lol. You're not getting many looks against a comp team being a cone and if you don't have a full squad to run with consistently you're no good because these randoms don't have the IQ to facilitate. I'll keep saying it, 2k should just strip badges and archetypes and let everybody be on a level playing field. Even with that set up I'm sure people will run to OS and reddit to cry and complain. SMH

    Yeah anything that disagrees with what you're saying is "crying/complaining". Ok den...
    Also must be nice to assume that if someone's pointing out flaws with the game, they must suck at it and don't know how to adjust or counter it. Point is, we shouldn't have to jump through all these hoops to counter some arcade gameplay element that shouldn't even exist.
    Idk what game you're playing, but the 5 out or 4-1 set while the PG dances around for 20 sec with his Unpluckable Handles for Days, using a suction screen, surrounded by his godlike HOF deadeye catch & shoot cones, is a meta that hasn't gone away. Have you watched the 2K League?? Nuff said.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    Yeah anything that disagrees with what you're saying is "crying/complaining". Ok den...
    Also must be nice to assume that if someone's pointing out flaws with the game, they must suck at it and don't know how to adjust or counter it. Point is, we shouldn't have to jump through all these hoops to counter some arcade gameplay element that shouldn't even exist.
    Idk what game you're playing, but the 5 out or 4-1 set while the PG dances around for 20 sec with his Unpluckable Handles for Days, using a suction screen, surrounded by his godlike HOF deadeye catch & shoot cones, is a meta that hasn't gone away. Have you watched the 2K League?? Nuff said.

    If you could search my post history you'd know I support a lot of the claims that people post on the forums. I understand where everybody is coming from. These problems have existed for quite some time and 2k has done nothing about it. The same complaints have been posted on reddit as well as here for 2k20. At this point your best bet would be to make the adjustments you need, continue to lose/win and be mad, or just stop playing the game altogether. I never said complaining/crying = sucking btw.
    The main point I highlighted was the claim that everybody is running 5 out basketball and that's not true whatsoever. It wasn't until a couple post later where people started mentioning 4 out 1 in. You want a game to be super realistic with a bunch of limited archetypes that can't do much of anything. It's honestly not happening until 2k figures out a better system. As of now this game is PG/C heavy. It's been like that for a while.
    I'm just trying to keep it as real as possible. A lot of people hate to hear it but that's just where we're at with this franchise. At this point you just gotta suck it up and deal with it until a fix happens.
    I have gotten a 2way slashing playmaker to a 94 with all his defensive badges. I'm 6'5 and have HOF pick dodger, HOF intimidator, i have high 80s lateral and perimeter defense. I have literally taken their PG out of the game with this build. If we run a 2-3 zone and I'm holding the corners/wings that side of the court is a dead zone. They WILL NOT attempt to shoot on my side after the first few attempts. If we play man i can get beat on the screen but still jump at the shooter a couple feet away and HOF intimidator will pop up and they will brick.
    I'm not even a pure lockdown. You could absolutely create a 3 and D player and guard 1-4 at the right height. I also have a 6'7 SF with HOF intimidator and centers and PFs with a foot of height difference will miss point blank at the rim.
    Korrupted
    If you could search my post history you'd know I support a lot of the claims that people post on the forums. I understand where everybody is coming from. These problems have existed for quite some time and 2k has done nothing about it. The same complaints have been posted on reddit as well as here for 2k20. At this point your best bet would be to make the adjustments you need, continue to lose/win and be mad, or just stop playing the game altogether. I never said complaining/crying = sucking btw.
    The main point I highlighted was the claim that everybody is running 5 out basketball and that's not true whatsoever. It wasn't until a couple post later where people started mentioning 4 out 1 in. You want a game to be super realistic with a bunch of limited archetypes that can't do much of anything. It's honestly not happening until 2k figures out a better system. As of now this game is PG/C heavy. It's been like that for a while.
    I'm just trying to keep it as real as possible. A lot of people hate to hear it but that's just where we're at with this franchise. At this point you just gotta suck it up and deal with it until a fix happens.

    Fair points but the more complaint threads about this the better. Maybe if 2K was flooded with this they'd actually do something about it.
    howardphillips214
    I have gotten a 2way slashing playmaker to a 94 with all his defensive badges. I'm 6'5 and have HOF pick dodger, HOF intimidator, i have high 80s lateral and perimeter defense. I have literally taken their PG out of the game with this build. If we run a 2-3 zone and I'm holding the corners/wings that side of the court is a dead zone. They WILL NOT attempt to shoot on my side after the first few attempts. If we play man i can get beat on the screen but still jump at the shooter a couple feet away and HOF intimidator will pop up and they will brick.
    I'm not even a pure lockdown. You could absolutely create a 3 and D player and guard 1-4 at the right height. I also have a 6'7 SF with HOF intimidator and centers and PFs with a foot of height difference will miss point blank at the rim.

    It can be done but you literally need the perfect collection of players with almost godlike defensive chemistry and perfect timing, perfect rotations, etc. It shouldn't be that way just to cover for OP gameplay flaws. This game is arcade as far as I'm concerned.
    Let me just go over the LAST GAME I just had in Rec that we have to deal with
      Super Tryhard Squad vs Randoms

      4-1 set (of course)

      2-Way SLASHER goes 4 of 5 from three smh

      PG dances around for 20 sec (thanks HOF Handles for Days and HOF Unpluckable) around suction screen

      PG with unrealistic speed boost/bursts, unrealistic momentum, unrealistic speed dribbles and change of direction

      Spam 10 crazy dribbles perfectly into a Stepback 3pter from 10 feet behind line with a release 5x quicker than Steph Curry's IRL release

      Spamming Left Bumper double team for added unrealistic defense

      Godlike cones standing in their spots like the bums they are

    THIS GAME IS FAAAAR FROM "SIM". IT'S UNREALISTIC ARCADE MODE IN THE SO-CALLED "REALISTIC" MODE - PRO-AM.
    There is no variety when it comes to "comp" squads. Same old boring and unrealistic 'basketball'. Fueled by 2K's pathetic arcade meta.
    This game has become a joke, I can't even take a "skill gap" seriously when so much unrealistic bs happens in this game. We are starting to get into NBA Live territory.
    I really want to know how the conversation goes when the PG wants to run that 5 out offense where only he get to touch the ball and they might get a shot or two if their man helps.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    It can be done but you literally need the perfect collection of players with almost godlike defensive chemistry and perfect timing, perfect rotations, etc. It shouldn't be that way just to cover for OP gameplay flaws. This game is arcade as far as I'm concerned.
    Let me just go over the LAST GAME I just had in Rec that we have to deal with
      Super Tryhard Squad vs Randoms

      4-1 set (of course)

      2-Way SLASHER goes 4 of 5 from three smh

      PG dances around for 20 sec (thanks HOF Handles for Days and HOF Unpluckable) around suction screen

      PG with unrealistic speed boost/bursts, unrealistic momentum, unrealistic speed dribbles and change of direction

      Spam 10 crazy dribbles perfectly into a Stepback 3pter from 10 feet behind line with a release 5x quicker than Steph Curry's IRL release

      Spamming Left Bumper double team for added unrealistic defense

      Godlike cones standing in their spots like the bums they are

    THIS GAME IS FAAAAR FROM "SIM". IT'S UNREALISTIC ARCADE MODE IN THE SO-CALLED "REALISTIC" MODE - PRO-AM.
    There is no variety when it comes to "comp" squads. Same old boring and unrealistic 'basketball'. Fueled by 2K's pathetic arcade meta.
    This game has become a joke, I can't even take a "skill gap" seriously when so much unrealistic bs happens in this game. We are starting to get into NBA Live territory.

    I'm telling you, there's ways to beat it. Most of the REALLY GOOD teams that play that way are in team Pro-Am. The guys you catch in the Rec that play like that probably got beat by 30 by the Pro-Am teams. So they're B- teams at best. If I've got a squad with me that understands Zone defense they're pretty easy to defend. It does involve a lot of communication, but we will typically hold our own if not blow them out.
    It is cheese, trust me. But after seeing my guy OBLITERATE my match up defensively, my buddies are working on defensive builds now. Most our bigs are 3 and D and the wing players are developing the same thing. If you only get a few defensive badge points i highly recommend investing in at least Silver clamps and Bronze Intimidator. Those badges work wonders.
    I played a team exactly like that with randoms. Double screen at the top, dribble dribble, shoot. Once he got off his game he literally gave the ball up to the Slashing ball handler and became a cone himself. It wasn't until garbage time that he ended up getting back to a decent percentage, but by then it was too late. We had a 10 point lead most of the game, we ended up winning by 4. But he only scored 18 points on less than 50 percent from the floor and around 40 percent from deep.
    It CAN be done.
    Korrupted
    So it’s not just 5 out basketball like someone previously stated lol. That’s all I was getting at. There’s actually some squads who have designed plays but you don’t come across them often.
    This game has been that way since Archetypes got introduced to the game. You can’t just come down the court and say here sharpshooter, cook up. The community wanted archetypes and now that they have them there’s nothing but problems. I find saying you need to play this way to win or you must run a particular lineup to win is crazy. There are other alternatives.

    The community did not want archs the way 2k built them with the OP badges and the stacking badges.
    or i should say half the community didnt, and maybe half did.
    lets be clear. there is a large portion of the community who asked for a stamina nerf because they were mad at the original stamina setup when the game first dropped. the dribble gawds could no longer dribble for 23 out of 24 seconds, spamming the same moves over and over trying to trigger a bad defensive animation out of you. not out of you making a wrong move but out of the game. because the game has been incorrectly programmed to do things not based on your movement but based on the offensive players, unless of course you're an OP defender. so the reverse would be true.
    These people wanted to and now are able to dribble forever without getting tired. and do so without getting ripped often, even though they are spamming these moves partially thru people's bodies.
    splashmountain
    The community did not want archs the way 2k built them with the OP badges and the stacking badges.
    or i should say half the community didnt, and maybe half did.
    lets be clear. there is a large portion of the community who asked for a stamina nerf because they were mad at the original stamina setup when the game first dropped. the dribble gawds could no longer dribble for 23 out of 24 seconds, spamming the same moves over and over trying to trigger a bad defensive animation out of you. not out of you making a wrong move but out of the game. because the game has been incorrectly programmed to do things not based on your movement but based on the offensive players, unless of course you're an OP defender. so the reverse would be true.
    These people wanted to and now are able to dribble forever without getting tired. and do so without getting ripped often, even though they are spamming these moves partially thru people's bodies.
    They still saying that stamina and unpluckable need to be buffed....
    Delusional...
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    ksuttonjr76
    For real? I did not know that. Was it like that last year with badges increasing the overall?

    I remember in the beginning of the season I took all of Russell Westbrooks badges away and he was only rated like in the low 80's.
    howardphillips214
    I'm telling you, there's ways to beat it. Most of the REALLY GOOD teams that play that way are in team Pro-Am. The guys you catch in the Rec that play like that probably got beat by 30 by the Pro-Am teams. So they're B- teams at best. If I've got a squad with me that understands Zone defense they're pretty easy to defend. It does involve a lot of communication, but we will typically hold our own if not blow them out.
    It is cheese, trust me. But after seeing my guy OBLITERATE my match up defensively, my buddies are working on defensive builds now. Most our bigs are 3 and D and the wing players are developing the same thing. If you only get a few defensive badge points i highly recommend investing in at least Silver clamps and Bronze Intimidator. Those badges work wonders.
    I played a team exactly like that with randoms. Double screen at the top, dribble dribble, shoot. Once he got off his game he literally gave the ball up to the Slashing ball handler and became a cone himself. It wasn't until garbage time that he ended up getting back to a decent percentage, but by then it was too late. We had a 10 point lead most of the game, we ended up winning by 4. But he only scored 18 points on less than 50 percent from the floor and around 40 percent from deep.
    It CAN be done.

    Re-read, I said it can be countered with godlike defensive chemistry, but it's still OP AF, unrealistic as hell, shouldn't be in the game. Doesn't change the point that the game is going full arcade.
    kdurantmvp
    I really want to know how the conversation goes when the PG wants to run that 5 out offense where only he get to touch the ball and they might get a shot or two if their man helps.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Lol
    PG: "hey guys here's the deal - I'm going to have the ball 95% of the time, get most of the stats, and take the credit that I carried ya'll. Cool?"
    Team: "sounds good"
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    It can be done but you literally need the perfect collection of players with almost godlike defensive chemistry and perfect timing, perfect rotations, etc. It shouldn't be that way just to cover for OP gameplay flaws. This game is arcade as far as I'm concerned.
    Let me just go over the LAST GAME I just had in Rec that we have to deal with
      Super Tryhard Squad vs Randoms

      4-1 set (of course)

      2-Way SLASHER goes 4 of 5 from three smh

      PG dances around for 20 sec (thanks HOF Handles for Days and HOF Unpluckable) around suction screen

      PG with unrealistic speed boost/bursts, unrealistic momentum, unrealistic speed dribbles and change of direction

      Spam 10 crazy dribbles perfectly into a Stepback 3pter from 10 feet behind line with a release 5x quicker than Steph Curry's IRL release

      Spamming Left Bumper double team for added unrealistic defense

      Godlike cones standing in their spots like the bums they are

    THIS GAME IS FAAAAR FROM "SIM". IT'S UNREALISTIC ARCADE MODE IN THE SO-CALLED "REALISTIC" MODE - PRO-AM.
    There is no variety when it comes to "comp" squads. Same old boring and unrealistic 'basketball'. Fueled by 2K's pathetic arcade meta.
    This game has become a joke, I can't even take a "skill gap" seriously when so much unrealistic bs happens in this game. We are starting to get into NBA Live territory.

    Man you really go into Jordan Rec and expect to win with Randoms? Ain't no way in hell I'm stepping foot in JRC solo around this time of year. It's an absolute trash experience. Those "Try Hard" full 5's will wreck randoms but the minute they play against legitimate players it shows why they're in JRC and not Team Pro-AM. You don't need godlike chemistry to beat them either. We've been catching a lot of Full 5's in JRC the last couple of days and the games haven't been competitive whatsoever. You're gonna have to find a decent squad to have a chance in JRC with the current matchmaking. Randoms aren't going to cut it.
    Korrupted
    Man you really go into Jordan Rec and expect to win with Randoms? Ain't no way in hell I'm stepping foot in JRC solo around this time of year. It's an absolute trash experience. Those "Try Hard" full 5's will wreck randoms but the minute they play against legitimate players it shows why they're in JRC and not Team Pro-AM. You don't need godlike chemistry to beat them either. We've been catching a lot of Full 5's in JRC the last couple of days and the games haven't been competitive whatsoever. You're gonna have to find a decent squad to have a chance in JRC with the current matchmaking. Randoms aren't going to cut it.
    All you're doing here is changing the subject. This isn't about winning the game vs. losing the game. This isn't even about who's playing with whom. If these kinds of tactics are consistently viable over and above the actual fundamentals of basketball, it ruins a simulation basketball experience, period.
    The fact that it's "so beatable" doesn't really make a difference here, the fact that this kind of offense can be successful under any kind of circumstance is a major issue that needs to be addressed in the future.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    mb625
    All you're doing here is changing the subject. This isn't about winning the game vs. losing the game. This isn't even about who's playing with whom. If these kinds of tactics are consistently viable over and above the actual fundamentals of basketball, it ruins a simulation basketball experience, period.
    The fact that it's "so beatable" doesn't really make a difference here, the fact that this kind of offense can be successful under any kind of circumstance is a major issue that needs to be addressed in the future.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    I'm not changing the subject just stating the obvious. I've already said until 2k makes changes this game will be played a certain way by some/most in the community. Going into JRC with high expectations as a solo player is a huge mistake. Thinking that you'll run up against players who play simulation basketball is about as rare as ever. Getting teamed up with good Randoms doesn't occur too often either. The game is a mess but I'd save myself the frustration by finding a decent squad that somewhat knows what they're doing. The experience this year is probably the worse it's been in quite some time. Same ish different day.
    Korrupted
    I'm not changing the subject just stating the obvious. I've already said until 2k makes changes this game will be played a certain way by some/most in the community. Going into JRC with high expectations as a solo player is a huge mistake. Thinking that you'll run up against players who play simulation basketball is about as rare as ever. Getting teamed up with good Randoms doesn't occur too often either. The game is a mess but I'd save myself the frustration by finding a decent squad that somewhat knows what they're doing. The experience this year is probably the worse it's been in quite some time. Same ish different day.

    Brother... the subject is how these HOF badges effect the game, not how entering the Rec by yourself effects the game. It doesn't matter if your teammates are the stupidest of the stupid, a strategy like that, which is predicated on shots which are generally recognized to be "bad basketball," shouldn't be a viable strategy. Heck... you see this first hand at your average Y, bunch of average guys come up against an amazing dude, but the dude forces everything and his team loses anyway because they weren't playing smart basketball.
    The issue is that the game rewards poor basketball over good basketball more often than not and the solution to that should be rewarding good basketball and punishing bad basketball. The better team will still win, who you're running with and whether or not you're winning the game is wholly irrelevant to the topic. Saving frustration is irrelevant to this topic, because the frustration is the topic. 2k is encouraging bad basketball which is the entire problem and topic of discussion.
    mb625
    Brother... the subject is how these HOF badges effect the game, not how entering the Rec by yourself effects the game. It doesn't matter if your teammates are the stupidest of the stupid, a strategy like that, which is predicated on shots which are generally recognized to be "bad basketball," shouldn't be a viable strategy. Heck... you see this first hand at your average Y, bunch of average guys come up against an amazing dude, but the dude forces everything and his team loses anyway because they weren't playing smart basketball.
    The issue is that the game rewards poor basketball over good basketball more often than not and the solution to that should be rewarding good basketball and punishing bad basketball. The better team will still win, who you're running with and whether or not you're winning the game is wholly irrelevant to the topic. Saving frustration is irrelevant to this topic, because the frustration is the topic. 2k is encouraging bad basketball which is the entire problem and topic of discussion.

    And we've been experiencing this for years. It's a legitimate problem and we all know that but until it's fixed what can you do? 2k knows about the issues. The same complaints pop up every year especially since archetypes have been introduced to the game. I think it's time to start blaming the devs more than the community itself. I'm just stating alternatives to help people out. Some folks are gonna let this game run their blood pressure sky high.
    It's pretty much stamped how this game is going to be played the next 9 months until 2k21 drops. There are no patches coming that's going to fix the issues. It sucks but you just gotta accept the fact at this point. I pray most don't have their expectations super high for the next installment either because with what the devs are throwing in this game, the lack of testing, and this community, the experience will be ruined quick as hell.
    Korrupted
    Man you really go into Jordan Rec and expect to win with Randoms? Ain't no way in hell I'm stepping foot in JRC solo around this time of year. It's an absolute trash experience. Those "Try Hard" full 5's will wreck randoms but the minute they play against legitimate players it shows why they're in JRC and not Team Pro-AM. You don't need godlike chemistry to beat them either. We've been catching a lot of Full 5's in JRC the last couple of days and the games haven't been competitive whatsoever. You're gonna have to find a decent squad to have a chance in JRC with the current matchmaking. Randoms aren't going to cut it.

    I do both - I run with different squads but if they ain't on or I don't have time/patience or just to grind a player I'll run solo, 'cause vs cpu is boring af. But point is the same - game is arcade and needs to be fixed. That's why the meta consistently stays the same. Also the more noise the community makes, the more likely it *may* get fixed.
    Thetruth9012
    They still saying that stamina and unpluckable need to be buffed....
    Delusional...
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    its insane to think that we have to share the same gym floor with these players. i'm not mad at you for wanting what you want out of your $60 . i'm mad at 2k for not separating us. its not hard at all. two modes. SIM/Arcade. we should not be forced to play one another or play together. its unfair for both camps.
    It's the equivalent of giving a 35 year old grown man a 21 year old roommate. odds are that wont work out so well MOST times for either age group involved. the 35 yr old will be constantly complaining about the 21 year old's loud music, friends over late at night etc. and vice versa. 21 yr old is like why this old dude always on my helmet about something that young people are supposed to be doing and when is he going to ever leave the house. lol.
    you notice in college they dont put freshmen in the same dorms as juniors and seniors. they put them with other freshmen. why the hell do i have to deal with dribble gawds and fade away deep range green release shooters in my rec gym? take that ish over there.
    Shooting feels like 2k19 right now. Seeing guys with ratings in the high 40’s and low50’s shoot 40% wide open.
    Guys with no badges greening contested shots lol. What did they do for the holidays
    loso_34
    Shooting feels like 2k19 right now. Seeing guys with ratings in the high 40’s and low50’s shoot 40% wide open.
    Guys with no badges greening contested shots lol. What did they do for the holidays

    Noticed this as well in both Park and Rec. The Steph Curry effect ruined 2K's shooting lol. What irks me the most are these 40 ft off the dribble greens. Like Steph Curry wouldn't take 10 of these deep 3's a game, it'd be 1-2 max. There's only 2-3 players in the league with that kind of range (Lillard comes to mind). And they're not taking 100 40 foot threes a game. And these type of players are RARE.
    Just think about how far 2K is from real basketball. Imagine seeing it being COMMON in the NBA that a player can dribble around for 10-15 seconds behind a screen with ankle breaking moves with zero fatigue, then step back into a 45 foot lightning quick release 3...and be successful 60-80% of the time. Yet this is common place in 'competitive mode' Pro-Am and the 2K League.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    Noticed this as well in both Park and Rec. The Steph Curry effect ruined 2K's shooting lol. What irks me the most are these 40 ft off the dribble greens. Like Steph Curry wouldn't take 10 of these deep 3's a game, it'd be 1-2 max. There's only 2-3 players in the league with that kind of range (Lillard comes to mind). And they're not taking 100 40 foot threes a game. And these type of players are RARE.
    Just think about how far 2K is from real basketball. Imagine seeing it being COMMON in the NBA that a player can dribble around for 10-15 seconds behind a screen with ankle breaking moves with zero fatigue, then step back into a 45 foot lightning quick release 3...and be successful 60-80% of the time. Yet this is common place in 'competitive mode' Pro-Am and the 2K League.

    Screens for greens. It's literally all this game is.
    Its insane that same move behind back to hesi is ruining the game since 2k15 lol.
    And this corner bitches and bigs who are bitches aswelll(when they grab offensive rebound just go guard pg he is not taking a shot even if he s open)
    Wysłane z mojego Redmi 5 przy użyciu Tapatalka
    After yet another BS smh Rec game
    > Range extender badge + badge stacking ruins yet another game. Guy on other team literally made 7 or 8 forty five foot threes, probably shot like 80 -90%. Nice 2K. He found a "money" jumper and "money" badges, so he EARNED this ability to be full arcade.
    > Stop calling this game a "simulation". Just stop 2K. Calling this a simulation / realistic game is a joke. I think if they actually put themself in the category of NBA street / NBA Jam, no one would have a problem with it, 'cause it's being honest. The problem I have is these supposed "sim" devs do their little marketing ploy in July Aug Sept every year, pretending that they give a crap about realism / realistic gameplay anymore. That's the annoying thing. Stop pretending your sim. They're has-beens when it comes to that.
    > 2K is becoming flat out an incompetent company if you judge them on gameplay. But the game isn't even concerned with realism or gameplay anymore. The game is bells and whistles, a pay to play 100 year grind circus. It's who can get the most glitchy badge or glitchy OP jumper. That's literally all this game has become.
    TBH I think 2K is in over their head. They don't know HOW to make a realistic game anymore. With all these badges and modes, they don't remember what realism looks like. They can't get the genie back in the bottle. They're addicted to the pay to play model, "badges" and "grinding", and it's brought them in millions or 10's of millions, that everything - including gameplay - must be looked at through the cash cow model first. Well is it any surprise gameplay has suffered? You prioritize bells and whistles, you change your business model to that, and I'm not sure they're even capable of improving gameplay.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    After yet another BS smh Rec game
    > Range extender badge + badge stacking ruins yet another game. Guy on other team literally made 7 or 8 forty five foot threes, probably shot like 80 -90%. Nice 2K. He found a "money" jumper and "money" badges, so he EARNED this ability to be full arcade.
    > Stop calling this game a "simulation". Just stop 2K. Calling this a simulation / realistic game is a joke. I think if they actually put themself in the category of NBA street / NBA Jam, no one would have a problem with it, 'cause it's being honest. The problem I have is these supposed "sim" devs do their little marketing ploy in July Aug Sept every year, pretending that they give a crap about realism / realistic gameplay anymore. That's the annoying thing. Stop pretending your sim. They're has-beens when it comes to that.
    > 2K is becoming flat out an incompetent company if you judge them on gameplay. But the game isn't even concerned with realism or gameplay anymore. The game is bells and whistles, a pay to play 100 year grind circus. It's who can get the most glitchy badge or glitchy OP jumper. That's literally all this game has become.
    TBH I think 2K is in over their head. They don't know HOW to make a realistic game anymore. With all these badges and modes, they don't remember what realism looks like. They can't get the genie back in the bottle. They're addicted to the pay to play model, "badges" and "grinding", and it's brought them in millions or 10's of millions, that everything - including gameplay - must be looked at through the cash cow model first. Well is it any surprise gameplay has suffered? You prioritize bells and whistles, you change your business model to that, and I'm not sure they're even capable of improving gameplay.

    Don't blame the game...blame the players who think green releases should be 100% make.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    After yet another BS smh Rec game
    > Range extender badge + badge stacking ruins yet another game. Guy on other team literally made 7 or 8 forty five foot threes, probably shot like 80 -90%. Nice 2K. He found a "money" jumper and "money" badges, so he EARNED this ability to be full arcade.
    > Stop calling this game a "simulation". Just stop 2K. Calling this a simulation / realistic game is a joke. I think if they actually put themself in the category of NBA street / NBA Jam, no one would have a problem with it, 'cause it's being honest. The problem I have is these supposed "sim" devs do their little marketing ploy in July Aug Sept every year, pretending that they give a crap about realism / realistic gameplay anymore. That's the annoying thing. Stop pretending your sim. They're has-beens when it comes to that.
    > 2K is becoming flat out an incompetent company if you judge them on gameplay. But the game isn't even concerned with realism or gameplay anymore. The game is bells and whistles, a pay to play 100 year grind circus. It's who can get the most glitchy badge or glitchy OP jumper. That's literally all this game has become.
    TBH I think 2K is in over their head. They don't know HOW to make a realistic game anymore. With all these badges and modes, they don't remember what realism looks like. They can't get the genie back in the bottle. They're addicted to the pay to play model, "badges" and "grinding", and it's brought them in millions or 10's of millions, that everything - including gameplay - must be looked at through the cash cow model first. Well is it any surprise gameplay has suffered? You prioritize bells and whistles, you change your business model to that, and I'm not sure they're even capable of improving gameplay.

    To be fair,I think alot of the blame for the current model lies more on the 2K Games brand itself than specifically on the NBA2K Dev Team.Ever since the success of GTA5 Online they've committed to adding in (and marketing) a large variety of micros into every title they release.
    IIRC, there are articles where 2K's CEO has outright said that they are looking to monetize every title as much as possible, that they looking for something like an extra $100-$150 per customer per year in microtransactions.
    Unfortunately, I think that the current situation will likely continue(and possibly even get worse) unless:
    A)2K Games oversteps their bounds so grossly that all the marketing spin/free VC/videos by 2K Apologists in the world can't prevent a mass exodus of the fanbase.
    B) Enough people get tired of their "sell the sizzle, not the steak" type of game design/marketing(unlikely as it seems the video gaming fanbase is slowly becoming conditioned to the mindset of "micros are just a part of gaming")
    C) Some sort of legitimate Simulation-centric competitor comes along and becomes successful enough to put a serious dent in 2K Games bottom line and force a re think.
    ksuttonjr76
    Don't blame the game...blame the players who think green releases should be 100% make.

    Also Twitter polls......and 2K Youtubers/Streamers who want the game to be set up so that they can continue posting "BEST JUMPER!DOMINATING IN THE PARK!" content to keep the Patreon/Ad Revenue checks rolling in so they can continue to make a comfortable living playing NBA2K.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    After yet another BS smh Rec game
    > Range extender badge + badge stacking ruins yet another game. Guy on other team literally made 7 or 8 forty five foot threes, probably shot like 80 -90%. Nice 2K. He found a "money" jumper and "money" badges, so he EARNED this ability to be full arcade.
    > Stop calling this game a "simulation". Just stop 2K. Calling this a simulation / realistic game is a joke. I think if they actually put themself in the category of NBA street / NBA Jam, no one would have a problem with it, 'cause it's being honest. The problem I have is these supposed "sim" devs do their little marketing ploy in July Aug Sept every year, pretending that they give a crap about realism / realistic gameplay anymore. That's the annoying thing. Stop pretending your sim. They're has-beens when it comes to that.
    > 2K is becoming flat out an incompetent company if you judge them on gameplay. But the game isn't even concerned with realism or gameplay anymore. The game is bells and whistles, a pay to play 100 year grind circus. It's who can get the most glitchy badge or glitchy OP jumper. That's literally all this game has become.
    TBH I think 2K is in over their head. They don't know HOW to make a realistic game anymore. With all these badges and modes, they don't remember what realism looks like. They can't get the genie back in the bottle. They're addicted to the pay to play model, "badges" and "grinding", and it's brought them in millions or 10's of millions, that everything - including gameplay - must be looked at through the cash cow model first. Well is it any surprise gameplay has suffered? You prioritize bells and whistles, you change your business model to that, and I'm not sure they're even capable of improving gameplay.

    something was done to shooting around a month ago. people have had all their badges for a while now but this arcadeish shooting is something recent.
    guys are hitting contested 3’s now with no badges and pull up 3’s that were bricks before. damn near every game i play now has a team shoot 60% from 3
    MrWrestling3
    To be fair,I think alot of the blame for the current model lies more on the 2K Games brand itself than specifically on the NBA2K Dev Team.Ever since the success of GTA5 Online they've committed to adding in (and marketing) a large variety of micros into every title they release.
    IIRC, there are articles where 2K's CEO has outright said that they are looking to monetize every title as much as possible, that they looking for something like an extra $100-$150 per customer per year in microtransactions.
    Unfortunately, I think that the current situation will likely continue(and possibly even get worse) unless:
    A)2K Games oversteps their bounds so grossly that all the marketing spin/free VC/videos by 2K Apologists in the world can't prevent a mass exodus of the fanbase.
    B) Enough people get tired of their "sell the sizzle, not the steak" type of game design/marketing(unlikely as it seems the video gaming fanbase is slowly becoming conditioned to the mindset of "micros are just a part of gaming")
    C) Some sort of legitimate Simulation-centric competitor comes along and becomes successful enough to put a serious dent in 2K Games bottom line and force a re think.

    Let's not try to spin this off and blame micro's for a bad game. The 2k dev team is definitely to blame. Even if this game wasn't a play to pay type of title the issues would still be the same. If you guys are falling for marketing at this point you have to blame yourself for being a fool. They've been doing this for a while now and last year definitely took the cake. Mike Wang pulled the same stunt this year as he did last year. On Twitter heavily leading up to the game and now he has disappeared. Different year, same sh*t.
    They put stuff into the game without truly testing or even thinking about the Pro's and Con's it seem. The community are the beta testers and even when pointing out certain flaws and issues they don't get fixed. This year is no different. I doubt if we see any major patches at this point. I'm sure the focused has already shifted to 2k21.
    Allow me to put myself in the shoes of a 'dev' for 2k, as an exercise since ive seen a lot of hate for them in particular.
    We make discrete, compounding alterations to an at least two decade old codebase, based off what the business tells us. The business wants money and is concerned with social media presence.
    These two together are deadly.
    I wouldnt agree its the devs fault, moreso the 'product managers' who probably have no way to push back against the business. 2k nba games have been a growing revenue source so even I have reservations about blaming them.
    I bet ronnie2k really knew of a feature to add respec of MyPlayer builds
    into 2k20, but the business gave them a veto at the last minute.

    I have to stop this thought experiment because im sympathizing with Ronnie2Cap.

    TLDR: The nature of 2k's development context makes this absurd gameplay inevitable. 2k in gameplay is more than the sum of its discrete parts, which makes it hard enough for the devs to release a complete package given business rules..
    ksuttonjr76
    Don't blame the game...blame the players who think green releases should be 100% make.

    Lol I blame both, but I blame 2K and Mike Wang more 'cause they're supposed to be the adults in the room. They're supposed to take feedback, but feedback from 12 yr olds shouldn't be their entire master - the NBA/irl basketball/realism should be the main factor in dictating how to balance the game. They shouldn't cater to Twitter teens on how the gameplay should be, especially for 'sim' Rec / Pro Am. Instead we got 2K taking polls where 10% of them actually have bball iq (Rec is proof) for guidance on how they should make their game. Like "Hey we don't know how to balance the gameplay guys, do you?? Please help us!". Takes away a lot of their basketball simulation credibility.
    loso_34
    something was done to shooting around a month ago. people have had all their badges for a while now but this arcadeish shooting is something recent.
    guys are hitting contested 3’s now with no badges and pull up 3’s that were bricks before. damn near every game i play now has a team shoot 60% from 3

    Happens every year. The bait and switch.
    Dev blogs to bring Sim Nation -- "we're about realism. we're committed to realism, we're soooo sim. "
    Game drops --- "let's dumb down the game so the bums don't lose interest"
    Oct - next iteration -- "let's ask twitter what we should do 'cause we don't have a clue"
    rinse & repeat
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    Happens every year. The bait and switch.
    Dev blogs to bring Sim Nation -- "we're about realism. we're committed to realism, we're soooo sim. "
    Game drops --- "let's dumb down the game so the bums don't lose interest"
    Oct - next iteration -- "let's ask twitter what we should do 'cause we don't have a clue"
    rinse & repeat

    But we see you 2K! You can fool some people some of the time but not all people all of the time lol
    Make no mistake, Sim Nation is what drives this game -- still. The hardcore ballers are the ones who keep playing 'cause of their love of basketball. The next guy will run to the next trendy game. If every real baller left, all that would be left is arcade noobs and 2K would take the route of NBA Live. That's EXACTLY what happened to NBA Live. At the end of their run, their entire community was made up of arcade ballers ('cause real ballers never switched back once they found the realistic 2K gameplay). The Sim community still runs this. Because if we left, the ONLY feedback they'd be getting is from 12 yr old billy trying to green 70 ft shots and dunking over 4 guys.
    TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    But we see you 2K! You can fool some people some of the time but not all people all of the time lol
    Make no mistake, Sim Nation is what drives this game -- still. The hardcore ballers are the ones who keep playing 'cause of their love of basketball. The next guy will run to the next trendy game. If every real baller left, all that would be left is arcade noobs and 2K would take the route of NBA Live. That's EXACTLY what happened to NBA Live. At the end of their run, their entire community was made up of arcade ballers ('cause real ballers never switched back once they found the realistic 2K gameplay). The Sim community still runs this. Because if we left, the ONLY feedback they'd be getting is from 12 yr old billy trying to green 70 ft shots and dunking over 4 guys.

    I think you described the current situation pretty accurately,in a way.2K used to be a game primarily targeted at basketball fans who were also gamers;now they are shifting towards targeting online gamers who also watch basketball,if you know what I mean.
    IMO this is why you often hear old school guys say the current game is designed for people who think the NBA is 48 minutes of Sportcenter Top 10 Plays.

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