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What Does a Post-Launch Madden 21 Franchise Mode Update Look Like?

Madden NFL 21

What Does a Post-Launch Madden 21 Franchise Mode Update Look Like?

With EA stating they plan to support Madden 21 franchise mode in a more substantial way than initially planned, the next question becomes what does that mean? We tend to believe there won’t be any major changes at the launch of Madden 21 because we are so close to the release date. With that somewhat off the table then, what does a post-launch Madden franchise mode update look like? Well, we have Madden 20 as an example of what those updates could look like.

DeuceDouglas is a resident legend in these parts for all the work he does detailing the ins and out of Madden’s franchise mode. I’ve highlighted his work before when he explained how he would improve scouting in Madden 21. Well, he also analyzed what the scenario engine looked like in Madden 21 back in October after it received updates through a patch from EA. He broke down the scenario engine down into three parts: frequency, variety and impact.

His final breakdown of how the scenario engine looked after the patch can be seen below.


“Going to try to keep this short but this feature in it’s current state is not good. It’s entirely too focused around success and rewarding the user without anything to really balance that out. You’re almost always playing with house money because if you achieve the goal you get massively rewarded over and over again and even if you fail or in my case with the Walter Poe scenario, have the intent of failing it’s still possible that you’ll come away from that situation no worse than you entered it and even potentially better. When you look at the frustrated player scenarios and the amount of rewards that come from them as a result of pissing the player off it makes the entire system feel meaningless and like your decisions don’t matter.

The new update was touted as “Living League” scenarios but with the exception of X-Factor scenarios, the scenario engine still fails to take you outside of the bubble that is your own team. Everything revolves around your coach, your players, your team and what’s happening and what other teams are doing is pretty much completely irrelevant. On top of that even what happens with your players and team becomes largely irrelevant after a game or two because pretty much every scenario is based around a one to two week window with limited effect and zero domino effect. A breakout scenario triggers because of a good previous game, the next game dictates whether an increase occurs and that’s that. A frustrated player scenario triggers because of a poor previous game, the next game dictates the outcome and then it’s as if nothing ever happened.

All of that continues to enhance that feeling of just going through the motions and going week-to-week while being isolated to you’re own little world that is completely separate to the rest of the league rather than actually navigating through an entire league over the course of an entire season. As it stands right now it’s on a path where if I was ever forced to interact with scenarios it would actively make me not want to play franchise mode.”


You can see the rest of his breakdown in text-form at the link, and you can also see how he tracked and analyzed every single scenario in this Google Doc.

I put this example of the scenario engine out here just to show what EA was able to add after launch last year. However, I also put this here as a reminder that EA is capable of adding something interesting, but still it comes down to the execution of that idea. EA sometimes forgets about features after introducing them or just gives up on them because they’re not perfect out of the box. The scenario engine is the latest example of that happening. The concept is strong and easy to understand, but the execution seemed rushed.

With Madden 21, improving and nailing down the scenario engine would have been something most people would have supported and embraced. It’s just one example of what could be included in a post-launch Madden 21 franchise mode update, but it also serves as an example of the shortcomings the Madden team has shown when it comes to realizing the potential of the ideas they do try to add to franchise mode.

In short, simply saying you want to do better is one thing, actually pulling it off is much harder. We’ll have to wait and see how things go here this time around.

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  1. Hey guys, a while back I did a deep dive into the scenario engine and with the recent update and addition of the "living league" scenarios, I wanted to revisit the scenario engine and see what's changed, if anything's improved or regressed and how these new scenarios have changed things from launch.
    I ran the same test I did previously except this time around I used the Kansas City Chiefs whereas last time I used the Denver Broncos. Because the new scenarios largely revolve around the playoffs, I wanted to use a team that had a better opportunity to trigger those while keeping a lot of the same factors in play. I went week-by-week for five seasons and along the way tracked every interaction with the scenario engine including:

    • When the scenario occurred
    • What kind of scenario occurred
    • The player(s) involved in the scenario (if any)
    • The choices I was given during the scenario (if any)
    • The choice(s) I made for the scenario
    • What the goal was that came with the choices I made (if any)
    • Whether the goal was passed or failed
    • Any rewards/penalties that I received as a result of the scenario (if any)

    I played the franchise just as I would if I was playing myself with the exception of actually playing the games. Everything was set to manual and I controlled all the roster management, offseason activities, etc.
    And once again the main points I'm focusing on once I have the data is FREQUENCY, VARIETY, and IMPACT.
    Frequency covering how often are scenarios occurring and how often you're interacting with the scenario engine. Variety covering how many different kinds and types of scenarios I encounter. And then Impact covering how the scenarios overall positively or negatively impacted my team, my players and the league. I feel like these are the three most important aspects of the scenario engine and that success or failure in these areas will make or break the feature.


    Last time I encountered nine different types of scenarios, this time around I encountered eleven due to the new additions and from most frequent to least frequent they were as follows:
    X-Factor: Once again the X-Factor scenarios were the most common but they did happen at a lower rate this time around. Once again I was noticing that there would often be times where I'd be facing an X-Factor that week but wouldn't get a scenario for it. It wasn't due to the player being injured or anything, there would just be times where I'd play someone like the Chargers and the first time around get a scenario for Joey Bosa and Melvin Gordon then the next time only get one for Philip Rivers or no scenario at all.
    The positions that triggered were once again the same and I didn't see any X-Factor scenarios when facing a WR, TE or S. In hindsight using the Chargers would have been a better move to see if I could get one to trigger when facing Travis Kelce.
    Beat Reporter: This one was once again the second most common scenario and the biggest change here was the removal of introductory scenario at start of your franchise as well as the post-game reaction scenario where she asked what side of the ball needed more improvement. With those gone it was all important win and Pro Bowl scenarios. By and large these are pretty pointless but I did occasionally get 150 coach XP from the important win scenarios.
    Breakout Player: This was by far the biggest change as I only encountered this three times in the last test but 17 this time around. I received them for a bunch of different positions but by far the most common were the RB and WR breakout scenarios. This also made me realize that even if these were available for the CPU it wouldn't even matter because through simulating the games, every single one of them failed. It also seems what was lost in the frequency of X-Factor scenarios was made up for here as between the two the total percentage is just about the same as previously.
    Frustrated Player: This seemed pretty much the same as the last test. It only occurred with running backs and wide receivers and didn't ever seem to make much sense. The running back ones were often either back up running back being frustrated immediately after the starter got injured and then the receiver scenarios were pretty much always the #1 receiver being frustrated after a bad game even though he's leading the team (or league) in yards.
    Bye Week: Once again encountered every bye week. Options were the same and it would be nice to see some different variables available here. Maybe a position coach asking who he should work with during the bye or something similar to the mentorship scenarios.
    Mentorship: And speaking of which, I encountered these less than I did in the previous test but this is a contextual scenario so if your roster isn't made up in a way that supports it, you're going to see less of them. For that same reason I only saw the OL and WR mentorship scenarios and didn't see the new QB one because Mahomes was the starter and I never had a younger, drafted QB to mentor but more on that later.
    General Manager: The first of the new scenarios that I encountered and this scenario was the GM coming to you after you've clinched a playoff spot to congratulate you. I made the plays four out of the five seasons but only saw this twice and both times didn't receive anything for it. I figured that was normal but then in running through other franchises, I was often getting +20 morale for the entire team so I'm not sure what dictates that.
    Rest or Start: Another new scenario revolving around the playoffs and this came in the form of your coordinator coming to you asking whether you want to rest or start a key player. This again triggered twice for me and in both cases revolved around Patrick Mahomes. If you chose to rest the player they'd see an increase to their STA and INJ ratings while if you decided to play them, they'd get an increase to their morale and that was dictated by the number of snaps they played.
    One big issue with this scenario is that it gives you the impression that you've locked up your spot and have nothing left to gain or lose when in reality that wasn't the case at all. In one of the seasons I was one of a few teams at 11-4 and a first round bye was possible if I won and heading on the road and losing the division was possible with a loss.
    Short Week: Just like last time this occurred when I had a Thursday Night game but I only had two in the five seasons rather than one every season. Nothing changed here and the options of choosing rest and prep were the same.
    Players Only Meeting: This is the scenario that triggers when you're on a losing streak and only had this occur once. Another contextual scenario that will happen more often if you're losing or using a lesser team. This one appears to have been updated as the options are the same to call out the DL, LBs or DBs but upon ending the losing streak Alex Okafor, who was the player that came to me, received 100 points to his legacy which was something I didn't see last time.
    Player Development: And then lastly and only because I included it last time was the player development onboarding scenario that teaches users about the DEV trait.

    The only new scenarios I didn't encounter were the QB Mentorship and Win One for the Veteran scenarios.
    This scenario is supposed to mimic the Jerome Bettis, Michael Strahan, Ray Lewis, Peyton Manning, etc. situation where the team rallies around the veteran. And I understand what they're going for here but this is probably the worst scenario I've seen in terms of the effect the rewards have. In a test franchise with the Ravens, they made the playoffs which resulted in a general manager scenario congratulating me for making the playoffs which resulted in a +20 morale boost for the entire team. The same week I received a Team Leader scenario from Alex Lewis (Ravens LG) about Marshal Yanda possibly retiring which triggered another +20 morale boost for the offense and at this point every single player on the offensive side of the ball was at 99 morale and huge ratings OVR boosts across the board.

    Going to try to keep this short but this feature in it's current state is not good. It's entirely too focused around success and rewarding the user without anything to really balance that out. You're almost always playing with house money because if you achieve the goal you get massively rewarded over and over again and even if you fail or in my case with the Walter Poe scenario, have the intent of failing it's still possible that you'll come away from that situation no worse than you entered it and even potentially better. When you look at the frustrated player scenarios and the amount of rewards that come from them as a result of pissing the player off it makes the entire system feel meaningless and like your decisions don't matter.
    The new update was touted as "Living League" scenarios but with the exception of X-Factor scenarios, the scenario engine still fails to take you outside of the bubble that is your own team. Everything revolves around your coach, your players, your team and what's happening and what other teams are doing is pretty much completely irrelevant. On top of that even what happens with your players and team becomes largely irrelevant after a game or two because pretty much every scenario is based around a one to two week window with limited effect and zero domino effect. A breakout scenario triggers because of a good previous game, the next game dictates whether an increase occurs and that's that. A frustrated player scenario triggers because of a poor previous game, the next game dictates the outcome and then it's as if nothing ever happened.
    All of that continues to enhance that feeling of just going through the motions and going week-to-week while being isolated to you're own little world that is completely separate to the rest of the league rather than actually navigating through an entire league over the course of an entire season. As it stands right now it's on a path where if I was ever forced to interact with scenarios it would actively make me not want to play franchise mode.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If you guys are interested in the scenarios I tracked, the document I used to track scenarios will be posted below. It has every scenario logged and more notes about some of the scenarios than the previous document. I'll also say again that if you don't want to know the outcome or potential outcomes of scenarios that you probably shouldn't look at it because it will ruin any surprises as it's completely straightforward.
    Madden 20 Scenario Engine Deep Dive (Revisit)

    Let me know your thoughts about scenarios and the recent update and if you have any ideas for scenarios that you'd like to see, make sure to head over to the thread below and leave them there.
    Create Your Own Scenario
    Great write up, Deuce. I agree wholeheartedly. While I love the effort and general thought behind this feature, in its current state, it's simply unacceptable.
    It's basically a rewards feature for XP with no negative consequences for the user. It doesn't impact storylines around the league and make every franchise mode experience different. It's just a text message system within which to bury more XP rewards for the user.
    Gameplay wise, I love Madden 20. But, the way this scenario engine was marketed and the way it has actually panned out couldn't be more different.
    Sent from my XT1650 using Operation Sports mobile app
    scitychamps87
    Great write up, Deuce. I agree wholeheartedly. While I love the effort and general thought behind this feature, in its current state, it's simply unacceptable.
    It's basically a rewards feature for XP with no negative consequences for the user. It doesn't impact storylines around the league and make every franchise mode experience different. It's just a text message system within which to bury more XP rewards for the user.
    Gameplay wise, I love Madden 20. But, the way this scenario engine was marketed and the way it has actually panned out couldn't be more different.

    It's really unfortunate because there is an unbelievable amount of potential with the feature. There's tons of things you can do and directions you can go but there's so much worry about making users feel bad or the slightest bit frustrated and it just doesn't allow for things to open up.
    The update did make some changes and there are negative consequences but they almost always are either easily avoidable or come along with something that basically cancels them out. Like with the bye week ones you lose three morale points (which is nothing) but every player on the roster earns 300 XP. And then with the frustrated players ones it's possible to see a 20 point morale hit which is fairly significant but with how many other avenues you have to constantly pick up morale and the fact that the scenario has no effect once it's concluded, it doesn't ever give you the sense that any of it really matters.
    Do you think there is any possibility we ever truly see this fleshed out to its true potential?
    In other words, negative consequences like disgruntled players, players who want a bigger role, demand a trade, etc? I'm fine with that not being the case often. But, at least one major player across the league every season wants out in recent history.
    Sent from my XT1650 using Operation Sports mobile app
    scitychamps87
    Do you think there is any possibility we ever truly see this fleshed out to its true potential?
    In other words, negative consequences like disgruntled players, players who want a bigger role, demand a trade, etc? I'm fine with that not being the case often. But, at least one major player across the league every season wants out in recent history.

    It's possible but not to the extent where there's ever significant balance IMO. Take the 'Win One for the Veteran' scenario and the effects that gives off, if there was ever a "locker room cancer" type scenario it would likely end up being something like -5 morale for the entire team rather than the -20. Same with the Bye and Short Week scenarios where there's a negative aspect to it but it's still outweighed by the positive.
    And anything that could potentially put a user in a position where they can't do something they want to or feel forced to do something they don't want to do it's going to be a really tough sell. I'd imagine there's going to have to be some sort of increase to negative consequences in the future just because of how insanely unbalanced things are currently but at the same time I can't really see them promoting a scenario that is just outrightly negative without there being some sort of positive outcome which from what we can tell so far, would not be balanced.
    It's important to remember that EA told us back in April that the Scenario Engine would include trade demands & hold outs, and in August they promised 5th year options.
    And to think people's biggest concern pre-release was the fact the CPU wasn't going to get these oh-so-important 'scenarios'.
    People need to stop buying into the lies.
    The "Win one for the Veteran" scenario is insane, I had it trigger for Marshall Yanda and I've won two playoff games now and after each game and each advance to the next week I've gotten +20 Morale for Yanda and +20 for the entire offense which means they have all gotten
    +20 before Wild Card round game
    +20 after Wild Card round game
    +20 before Divisional round game
    +20 after Divisional round game
    +20 before Conference Championship game
    This means that literally every offensive player has max morale and are seeing overall boosts of up to 4 points. I have to believe you're not supposed to receive the morale boost both before and after each game with this scenario because it's ridiculously helpful
    TheOncomingStorm
    It's important to remember that EA told us back in April that the Scenario Engine would include trade demands & hold outs, and in August they promised 5th year options.
    And to think people's biggest concern pre-release was the fact the CPU wasn't going to get these oh-so-important 'scenarios'.
    People need to stop buying into the lies.

    No, people need to stop angrily and wrongly calling game developers liars. Plans change, timelines get moved, video game development is not a rigid and permanent thing, etc.
    In this particular case, people need to actually read the words that were written on the internet. You weren't falsely advertised to.
    This is Mike Young's description of the facts of the Scenario Engine from that Game Informer article:
    “The Scenario Engine is intended to create dynamic storylines week to week based on how you're playing, who you are, your record, your stats, and the personalities around you. It fires off stories that could be one-week stories, but there are also several storylines that are branching.”
    The Scenario Engine is flexible enough to incorporate more variables as Tiburon sees fit. “One thing we're really excited about is planning to add content throughout the year,” Young says. “This will be the first time we've ever done updates to franchise throughout the season.”

    This is GI's description of what SE offers to M20:
    Madden NFL 20 has several scenarios like that that can arise on the fly and give you player boosts or small goals with meaningful rewards. If your team is struggling, perhaps a locker room leader calls a player’s only meeting that gives a boost to the position group you think needs the most help. If your team has a short week, you can decide to push them to practice to earn some more XP, or give them time off to boost morale. If a young player has a good game, you may trigger a “breakout player scenario” that issues a specific goal for the next game. If you meet it, then the player could earn a dev trait increase mid-season, jumping his trait status from normal to star.

    In particular, this is not a description of what SE offers, but rather Mike Young talking about inspirations / pie-in-the-sky goals for the feature:
    The offseason presents dynamic obstacles to overcome as well. “If you franchise tag a guy, there should be a risk that he'll just retire or demand a trade,” Young says. “You should feel that weight when you are making these choices instead of sorting a spreadsheet and going, 'eh, he's not that good.' There's got to be a risk/reward to this stuff to really make you feel the immersion of it.” If you’re the type of GM who doesn’t like surprises, this may affect how you approach drafting. Maybe you’ll pass on a temperamental player with more potential upside just for the peace of mind knowing that your pick won’t lead a revolt against your leadership.
    CM Hooe
    No, people need to stop angrily and wrongly calling game developers liars. Plans change, timelines get moved, video game development is not a rigid and permanent thing, etc.
    In this particular case, people need to actually read the words that were written on the internet. You weren't falsely advertised to.
    This is Mike Young's description of the facts of the Scenario Engine from that Game Informer article:
    This is GI's description of what SE offers to M20:
    In particular, this is not a description of what SE offers, but rather Mike Young talking about inspirations / pie-in-the-sky goals for the feature:

    lol dude just once i would love for you to not give EA the benefit of the doubt. They oversold and underdelivered for the millionth time. This is not standard practice amongst large companies or even software companies. Stop making excuses for them. They did a bad job and completely misled the portion of their customer base that plays franchise mode.
    XtremeDunkz
    lol dude just once i would love for you to not give EA the benefit of the doubt. They oversold and underdelivered for the millionth time. This is not standard practice amongst large companies or even software companies. Stop making excuses for them. They did a bad job and completely misled the portion of their customer base that plays franchise mode.

    Nothing about "benefit of the doubt" and nothing about EA. Tiburon misled no one.
    No, I'm directly calling out the people who set themselves up for disappointment, because those people very clearly did not understanding the words that were written. Your disappointment based upon misplaced expectations is on you.
    Even if they couldn't understand written words, there was even a freaking beta and the Scenario Engine was doing all the same things (high-level) it is doing now. Games can't and don't change much from beta to launch day. I can't possibly be the only one here who understands that, you all are all smart people too, and too many other AAA games have done betas now.
    My expectations for SE were pretty low based on what I read and understood from the pre-release material (both the written material and the M20 beta). While those low expectations were indeed met, I immediately allow that SE doesn't add much more than a bare-minimum level of dynamism to Franchise mode in its current form. Welcome dynamism given that the previous amount was nearly zero, but we need more.
    SE absolutely needs to offer more interesting and more complex situations and results in future versions, and it absolutely needs to address the user-vs-CPU player progression imbalances it introduces. Those are the two biggest issues I see with it right now.
    CM Hooe
    No, people need to stop angrily and wrongly calling game developers liars. Plans change, timelines get moved, video game development is not a rigid and permanent thing, etc.
    In particular, this is not a description of what SE offers, but rather Mike Young talking about inspirations / pie-in-the-sky goals for the feature:
    The offseason presents dynamic obstacles to overcome as well. “If you franchise tag a guy, there should be a risk that he'll just retire or demand a trade,” Young says. “You should feel that weight when you are making these choices instead of sorting a spreadsheet and going, 'eh, he's not that good.' There's got to be a risk/reward to this stuff to really make you feel the immersion of it.” If you’re the type of GM who doesn’t like surprises, this may affect how you approach drafting. Maybe you’ll pass on a temperamental player with more potential upside just for the peace of mind knowing that your pick won’t lead a revolt against your leadership.

    Mike Young says nothing that indicates those concepts are "pie-in-the-sky goals" compared to other scenarios he mentions.
    When concepts such as trade demands and hold outs are presented alongside finalized features, with NO VERBALIZED DIFFERENCE between what's going to be in the game and what's PR speak, I give no benefit of the doubt.
    EA knew FULLY WELL what they were doing. They knew they were tossing out fan-favorite concepts that would never see the light of day alongside features in the game for the purpose of muddying the waters.
    Maybe what Mike Young should have said is this:
    "If you franchise tag a guy, there should be a risk that he'll just retire or demand a trade. You should feel that weight when you are making these choices instead of sorting a spreadsheet and going, 'eh, he's not that good.' There's got to be a risk/reward to this stuff to really make you feel the immersion of it. But none of that is going to be in the game, we're just talking about how much we love following football. So don't expect any of those to be in the game. Because they aren't. Despite me talking about them".
    There. Much more accurate.
    Let's look at something else Mike Young said:
    When we looked all year at storylines like Le'Veon Bell's holdout or Antonio Brown demanding a trade, we really didn't have anything in Madden right now to bring leadership and managing the locker room, and personalities, and cohesiveness that's needed on a football team either from a player perspective or a coaching perspective,” Young says. “The Scenario Engine is intended to create dynamic storylines week to week based on how you're playing, who you are, your record, your stats, and the personalities around you. It fires off stories that could be one-week stories, but there are also several storylines that are branching.”

    Young directly talks about hold outs and trade demands when discussing the dynamic storylines created by the Scenario Engine. Does he say those will be scenarios? No, but he IMPLIES IT greatly. Very deceptive.
    Again from the article:
    To achieve this goal, EA Tiburon essentially reverse engineered major and minor storylines from the last seven years, finding compelling scenarios that could challenge players and looking at the inputs that would be necessary to trigger these circumstances in a franchise playthrough. If a star player found out he was placed on the trade block, how would he react? If you cut ties with a future Hall of Famer in favor of a hotshot rookie, what would that do to the locker room?

    AT THE TIME OF THE ARTICLE, it was IMPLIED that trade block reactions and HoF getting cut reactions were already created/reverse-engineered.
    If a talented receiver like Martavis Bryant is frozen out for three games, he may demand you get him the damn ball. If you don’t, maybe he demands a trade.

    IMPLIED to be in the game.
    Keep defending EA's shameless implications, and the media outlets such as GameInformer who print these lies. Not that they know what's a lie or what isn't. I don't think they care, they are just happy to be EA's mouthpiece.
    EDIT: One more thing, to drive the point home. Here is the order of prospective and/or confirmed scenarios as mentioned in the article:
    Holdout mentioned first. Trade demands mentioned second. Then player reaction to trade block. Then locker room reaction to cutting a HoF player. Then volatile personalities creating crisis. Then trade demands again. Then player reacting to franchise tag.
    AFTER ALL OF THAT is when Mike starts talking about player meeting scenarios, short week, breakout scenarios, and other things in the game.
    Mike Young spewed out half a dozen things that AREN'T IN THE GAME before talking about what was in the game.
    Shameless. Also, it's not like EA has a proven track record of lying and deceiving gamers.
    TheDominator273
    The "Win one for the Veteran" scenario is insane, I had it trigger for Marshall Yanda and I've won two playoff games now and after each game and each advance to the next week I've gotten +20 Morale for Yanda and +20 for the entire offense which means they have all gotten
    +20 before Wild Card round game
    +20 after Wild Card round game
    +20 before Divisional round game
    +20 after Divisional round game
    +20 before Conference Championship game
    This means that literally every offensive player has max morale and are seeing overall boosts of up to 4 points. I have to believe you're not supposed to receive the morale boost both before and after each game with this scenario because it's ridiculously helpful

    That was the exact situation I encountered and it didn't even take playing a playoff game for the entire offense to be maxed out. They got 20+ morale for clinching a playoff spot and then another 20+ for the Yanda scenario. Then just for good measure Yanda had his own separate scenario that maxed out his morale for the entire playoffs which didn't really do anything because it was already maxed.
    I want to say that's not intended but I honestly don't know. Franchise really isn't built to play seasons anymore and is more akin to Madden's version of a campaign mode where you play it once, "beat it" by winning the Super Bowl and then move on. So that makes me think that it may very well be intended to make accomplishing that goal as easy as possible.
    DeuceDouglas
    That was the exact situation I encountered and it didn't even take playing a playoff game for the entire offense to be maxed out. They got 20+ morale for clinching a playoff spot and then another 20+ for the Yanda scenario. Then just for good measure Yanda had his own separate scenario that maxed out his morale for the entire playoffs which didn't really do anything because it was already maxed.
    I want to say that's not intended but I honestly don't know. Franchise really isn't built to play seasons anymore and is more akin to Madden's version of a campaign mode where you play it once, "beat it" by winning the Super Bowl and then move on. So that makes me think that it may very well be intended to make accomplishing that goal as easy as possible.
    Yeah that describes my situation exactly. Yanda had his own situation and another player came to me as well about winning one for Yanda.
    Where the imbalance comes is this is an online 32 man CFM. I have to imagine you're supposed to get one +20 boost for the players side of the ball and one for the player and that's it, not supposed to stack the way it has.
    Man CM. LMAO man. Give me a break. Can we call a spade a spade for once?
    One thing I noticed is that its always the same players too for the preseason mentorship. Like if Okorafor is rated higher than Fieler and you don't trade for another o lineman, Okorafor gets the mentorship scenario. When Moncrief was the 3rd highest rated receiver he got the dev upgrade scenario, now Diontae Johnson gets it now that Moncrief rating went down. When I traded for John Ross and he was the 3, guess what, he got the scenario. Always #3 WR for the Steelers will get a scenario as long as he has one decent game( which if he's your slot guy and you sim it's guaranteed cause the sim engine always gives stats to SLWR)
    Good write up. My experience with the scenario engine resulted in star developments for 3 players in 2 seasons. Plus I got the 20 point morale bonus for making the playoffs which led to a superbowl win in season 2. It seems to me they designed this primarily for online leagues otherwise the cpu would be using them and the penalties to player morale would be far more impactful and rewards and penalties would be far more balanced. My hope is they will add these needed changes to balance things out especially for those playing offline.
    Sent from my SM-G960U using Operation Sports mobile app
    TheDominator273
    Yeah that describes my situation exactly. Yanda had his own situation and another player came to me as well about winning one for Yanda.
    Where the imbalance comes is this is an online 32 man CFM. I have to imagine you're supposed to get one +20 boost for the players side of the ball and one for the player and that's it, not supposed to stack the way it has.

    I'm guessing a 32 user league looks like complete chaos. The trigger criteria for breakout scenarios (from what I've gathered) is so low that if you're playing any kind of substantial quarters/plays they should be triggering regularly.
    But back to the playoff thing, scenarios feels a lot like drive goals when they were first implemented where all they are is a positive reinforcement/gratification mechanic designed for you to succeed and be rewarded (and put you at an advantage) and when those were first implemented you could be getting beat by 40 every week and your entire team would be at 99 confidence simply because of drive goals and that feels like what's kind of happening with that scenario.
    DeuceDouglas
    I'm guessing a 32 user league looks like complete chaos. The trigger criteria for breakout scenarios (from what I've gathered) is so low that if you're playing any kind of substantial quarters/plays they should be triggering regularly.

    Yea it's getting out of hand, in my 32 user franchise we are literally seeing at least 4 or 5 teams ON AVERAGE get a superstar breakout scenario each week. That's just from what I can tell by guys posting about getting them, there could be more that just aren't posting about getting them. Out of those 4 or 5 a week probably about 2-3 of them are completing them. At this rate by year 3 or 4 we might as well just be playing superstar KO, this has gotten way out of hand since the last update. If they don't do something about this quickly it's going to ruin our league.
    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Shosum13
    Yea it's getting out of hand, in my 32 user franchise we are literally seeing at least 4 or 5 teams ON AVERAGE get a superstar breakout scenario each week. That's just from what I can tell by guys posting about getting them, there could be more that just aren't posting about getting them. Out of those 4 or 5 a week probably about 2-3 of them are completing them. At this rate by year 3 or 4 we might as well just be playing superstar KO, this has gotten way out of hand since the last update. If they don't do something about this quickly it's going to ruin our league.

    I’m passing this feedback along. In my current franchise I had one breakout scenario in my first 12 games and then in each of my last two I’ve triggered one. Then when I started a Raiders franchise from the Week 6 starting point they had three or four triggered when I started.
    I love the idea of the Breakout Scenarios but with how easily and often nonsensically they trigger then the fact that DEV traits can no longer regress it’s too much. If the goals extended past one game they’d be a little more intriguing and it wouldn’t be as bad.
    DeuceDouglas
    I’m passing this feedback along. In my current franchise I had one breakout scenario in my first 12 games and then in each of my last two I’ve triggered one. Then when I started a Raiders franchise from the Week 6 starting point they had three or four triggered when I started.
    I love the idea of the Breakout Scenarios but with how easily and often nonsensically they trigger then the fact that DEV traits can no longer regress it’s too much. If the goals extended past one game they’d be a little more intriguing but and it wouldn’t be as bad.
    Yea hopefully something gets changed quickly. I just jumped in to another solo side franchise since I had some downtime from league games. Even in my solo franchise I was able to trigger 5 superstar breakout scenarios in 3 weeks just for my team. A lot of mine were I had 1 for my RB, 1 for a LB and 3 for different DBs. For the DBs as from what it looked like it just took 1 int to trigger it because for 3 straight weeks it triggered for a player I had a pick with the week before. If that's the case that is way too low of a criteria to be triggering a breakout scenario.
    Even if they don't change it from one game goals to complete the scenario, at the very least they could make the requirements to trigger one much tougher. If it doesn't get remedied quickly it's going to really ruin the balance of 32 user leagues. The amount of superstar players in the league will be substantially increased with in just a couple of seasons to a level where we might as well be playing superstar KO mode.
    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Shosum13
    Yea hopefully something gets changed quickly. I just jumped in to another solo side franchise since I had some downtime from league games. Even in my solo franchise I was able to trigger 5 superstar breakout scenarios in 3 weeks just for my team. A lot of mine were I had 1 for my RB, 1 for a LB and 3 for different DBs. For the DBs as from what it looked like it just took 1 int to trigger it because for 3 straight weeks it triggered for a player I had a pick with the week before. If that's the case that is way too low of a criteria to be triggering a breakout scenario.
    Even if they don't change it from one game goals to complete the scenario, at the very least they could make the requirements to trigger one much tougher. If it doesn't get remedied quickly it's going to really ruin the balance of 32 user leagues. The amount of superstar players in the league will be substantially increased with in just a couple of seasons to a level where we might as well be playing superstar KO mode.

    Yeah, from what I’ve gathered in some testing there’s tiers of criteria similar to how there’s tiers for the goals where for the defense it can take only one INT, sack, etc. to trigger but usually it’s been two or more which still isn’t anything crazy.
    Offensively is where it often makes zero sense and I’ve seen a bunch of cases where receivers will trigger after something like a 3 catch, 31 yard game which is ironically right in line with the numbers that trigger frustrated player scenarios. Usually the common theme with the WR’s though has been a touchdown catch but there’s some weird outliers.
    Then for running backs it seems like it’s based on carries more than anything and I’ve seen more than a few cases of a back having 14-17 carries for 50-60 yards and having the scenario trigger. Of the ones I’ve tracked there hasn’t been a single time where the scenario triggered following a 100 yard game.
    CM Hooe
    Nothing about "benefit of the doubt" and nothing about EA. Tiburon misled no one.
    No, I'm directly calling out the people who set themselves up for disappointment, because those people very clearly did not understanding the words that were written. Your disappointment based upon misplaced expectations is on you.
    Even if they couldn't understand written words, there was even a freaking beta and the Scenario Engine was doing all the same things (high-level) it is doing now. Games can't and don't change much from beta to launch day. I can't possibly be the only one here who understands that, you all are all smart people too, and too many other AAA games have done betas now.

    Wait, wait, wait, just hold up a second...
    Is this NOT the same forum that was lambasting people AD NAUSEAM during the beta test "Don't judge this game based on the beta test. Wait until you purchase the finished product to do so"?
    When people were criticizing this game for its lackluster SE during the beta, was it NOT the same Mike Young or Clint Oldenburg or whoever it was that was lambasting people AD NAUSEAM for "criticizing a beta before playing the finished product" on Twitter?
    That's all there was! The VAST MAJORITY of people here and all over understood EXACTLY that things couldn't possibly change that much from beta to release day, yet the VAST MAJORITY of those on this very forum and the developers of Madden themselves were patronizing the hell out of all of them by saying "It's a BETA. Meaning it's an UNFINISHED PRODUCT. So don't knock it until you actually buy the finished product."
    But NOW you're honestly, with (I can only imagine) a straight and determined face, trying to downplay yet another failure on EA's end to uphold their own promises while blaming the CONSUMER for buying into that mess? So the consumers — by all accounts — were idiots for criticizing a beta because it's an unfinished product and NOW they're idiots for believing that BS, buying the game anyway, and ultimately once again, left feeling misled and/or lied to?
    I'll somewhat agree that their "disappointment based upon misplaced expectations" is partly on them after years of being taken advantage of by EA. I say that because I AM one of those people... but let's not get it twisted that the ENTIRE REASON they had misplaced expectations, to begin with, was due to EA/Tiburon/the devs/WHOEVER flat-out misleading and/or lying to them. Which boils down to YOU essentially trashing people for actually believing EA was being transparent in what they were preaching. God forbid they actually TRUST EA for once, amiright?
    To Deuce:
    'Preciate all the work you put in, mang. You're one of the reasons I still check in from time to time even during the years I decided to pass on buying the game. From the Franchise Rebuild, to the Deep-Dive into Sim stats, to this... it doesn't go unappreciated.
    I don't really know how to put this without sounding like yet another person ragging on EA just to rag on them, but the stuff you pointed out here were things I was mostly worried about pre-launch and why I passed on buying it. I felt as if the SE would not be as in-depth as it was marketed to be, would overwhelmingly be "positive-heavy" w/ very minimal consequences, while the CPU controlled teams would feel none of these effects, leaving the user's team seemingly overpowered in most instances. Simply put, the SE at its core felt like a re-packaged "Weekly Goals" while the Morale system felt like a re-packaged "Confidence" rating.
    Once again, the potential IS THERE but the finished product that was insinuated during beta falls well short and leaves a lot of the fanbase disappointed, to say the least.
    Nevertheless, keep up the well-informed and thoughtful work.
    You need to look a the full picture - then I would agree it's a bit too much, but not that much.
    Breakout scenarios from Normal to Star are quite achievable, even in H2H games. So they have the chance to jump 2-3 OVR and develop faster in future, but they are nowhere immediate 90+ players.
    Even star players start regressing at 27/28 and won't develop any further. That gives them a window of maybe 4-5 seasons at max to develop, then regress.
    Breakout to superstar or even xfactor are much tougher and I don't think every chance will be taken. In a user cfm with 32 teams it's not that easy to just throw 150 yards or 3 TDs to a certain player. It works sometimes, but usually not always. That gives a certain balance.
    Of course it could use some tuning, but don't forget "Star" is the old "Normal" and nowhere automatic superstar with just one breakout.
    Adding to that: star dev players really start to drag development-wise increasingly so in the 80+ OVR range. Their point thresholds are still relatively high, their accrual rate isn’t crazy like SS, and of course every player is on a clock age-wise. Unless you’re gaming salaries eventually you need to pay all these guys too.
    I did finally see a SS to X-factor scenario. The goal was like 4 TDs or 200 yards. Didn’t come close. Even S to SS can be tough depending on position.
    OkieDokie
    Hmm...... They didn't lie, Tiburon didn't mislead anyone, Mike Young didn't make stuff up, it's our fault for "not understanding the words that were written"...
    Okie Dokie, Mr. Moderator!

    They certainly made a re-commitment to franchise like they promised.... back in 2004...

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