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Operation Sports Asks: Would You Like an NBA 2K Gameplay Mechanic Based On 'Decay'?

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NBA 2K20

Operation Sports Asks: Would You Like an NBA 2K Gameplay Mechanic Based On 'Decay'?

Whether green releases should exist or not is one topic of discussion that comes up quite often, but something else I’m curious to hear feedback on revolves around the theoretical NBA 2K gameplay mechanic of “decay” and how you all would like to see it implemented.

To be brief, the idea of decay in this case is not the one that occurs when you don’t play for some large amount of time and your attributes go down. Instead, I’m talking about gameplay decay based on your actions. To keep things tight, I’m thinking specifically about “dribble decay” this time around and the impacts that would have on things you do on the court.

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Some of the most boring stuff you’ll see in the game right now revolves around using pick and rolls nonstop until you get an open shot. Now, I’m not out here to try and say 4 and 5 out are not very real and successful tactics in the real NBA — and the same goes for screen and re-screen — but I think a video game needs to take more into account than just the basic real-life strategies.

The “meta” being what it is and “cheese” always being discussed means I’m curious if people like the idea of attributes going down the more you dribble during a possession. I’m even leaving fatigue out of this, but the idea of dribbling around for 15 seconds while getting multiple screens before finally getting an “open” shot and greening it can feel frustrating to defend.

The idea of openness and timing is all that really matters at the core of NBA 2K’s gameplay at this juncture. There is really no concept of what lead to that open shot that was greened, and I’m curious if you want something like decay there so it’s then harder to green a release if you’ve been dribbling the whole shot clock and so on. And, to be clear, this does not come from a place of being bitter about the way the game is played currently because I get it. People do what works, and that’s always been the case, especially online. This mechanic is certainly more focused on the head-to-head crowd, but do simulation people or folks who play against the AI have interest in this?

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Bottom line, speed bursting around, doing one move while getting a pick, stopping on a dime and greening a shot do not make up an ideal way to engender creativity, so is there a better way?

Let me know what you think of this as a general mechanic. There would need to be exceptions here (dribbling out the clock for a final shot and so on should not have the same decay involved) so I just mean as a base mechanic does this interest you at all? Do you think it would lead to people passing more? Do you think it would lead to people dribbling more with a purpose? Do you think this is the wrong way to go about trying to get people to play a “smarter” brand of basketball rather than just dribble around for 15 seconds until any “open” shot is created at last?

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  1. I'm on the fence with this one. As a 2-way PG, I have to defend against PGs that will literally dance behind 1-2 bigs setting screens until they get to their hot zone and shoot an "uncontested" shot. It's frustrating, because I can outsmart the picks for the first 8-12 seconds before I finally get caught on the one screen that allows for the uncontested shot. To me, there should be some form of decay that lessen the probability of a green release, because NBA players don't dance behind screens for the entire shot clock, and I don't want to hear that crap of "If a coach can keep using the same play blah, blah, blah, blah.". IRL, the refs would eventually call an illegal screen and NBA DON'T shoot 80+% from 3PT land.
    To expand on the article, I wouldn't mind seeing decay on repetitive tactics if it promote ball movement.
    I'm also on the fence with this. On one hand, a "gunner" will always be a gunner; on the other hand there are real life penalties that already exist for this that could, theoretically, be implemented in a game.
    The decay shouldn't really be with the ballhandler because history shows it isn't realistic to artificially fatigue them for over-dribbling (think Iverson, Marbury, Arenas, etc.). The decay should be with the teamates standing around the court doing nothing.
    Maybe, instead of getting 8-12 screens to run behind, your teammates either: (a) become less effective on screens; (b) get called for illegal screens more frequently; or (c) refuse to set multiple screens, outright. Try getting 12 screens, back-to-back-to-back, in a pickup game; it doesn't happen. Ever.
    Another idea would be to lower the awareness of the teammates just standing around. For example, if you DO decide to pass the ball, the chance of them not being "aware" of the pass coming is increased causing more frequent turnovers. If the pass IS successful, there could be a prolonged catch animation, a reduction in all shooting and/or handling attributes, strength or speed, etc. Fatigue could take a hit for the remaining possession (both offensive and defensive). Usually, when you're not getting touches on offense, its harder to get invested on defense. Watch how quickly an Expressive-type NBA player (irl) gets back on D after a teammate takes a bad, or forced, shot.
    2K needs to use common sense, sometimes. Just my $.02.
    Actually...we don't need decay. They just need to adjust shooting percentages where players can't shoot 80+% after dancing behind screens for most of the shot clock. Change that and the tactic moves from "all of the time" to "some of the time". I played a game last night where my opponent shot 9 of 10 from 3PT land by dancing behind screens. That was literally what they did for most of the game. Yes, I got 3 steals, but 3 steals can't overcome that type of shooting.
    I would love this, really. If you watch a lot of NBA ball, the most effective shooters are not off the dribble shooters. There are great off the dribble shooters, Curry, Dame, Kemba. These guys get most of their shots off the dribble EARLY in the shot clock. If a shooter wants to come down and pull a 30 footer, that should be an early in the shot clock thing. On top of that, there should be a hard cap of something like high 30 percent on that shot. The Curry brothers are 2 of the top 5 shooters of all time and shoot roughly around 43-44 percent for their careers. It's absolutely nuts to me that players can average 70-80 percent all year long in the myplayer modes.
    I also would love to see more of an emphasis on offball screens and ball movement. Klay Thompson is one of the greatest catch and shoot players of all time. But he doesn't just stand in one spot all game while Curry dribbles for 20 seconds then kicks out for a wide open 3. I think catch and shoot players absolutely need to focus on running and gunning. A "wrap" in 2k is already deadly, but i would love to see players run figure 8 patterns, cutting through the paint, playing off the ball like the Warriors do. Klay has to have some of the best conditioning we've ever seen from a player with how he moves off the ball. Consistently getting open should be a skill.
    The issue with 5 out and 4 out is that there is no skill involved. There is no ball movement. Old school coaches would emphasyze 4 passes before a shot goes up. If passing mechanics were improved so the ball could truly travel faster than the defense can react, it would be a dream come true to me. I used to play PG a lot and i would NEVER pound the air out of the ball. I would make long outlet passes before the D could set up, if i actually crossed half court with the ball, i would dump to the wing and try and get a give-and-go action going. These are true basketball principles that have been lost along the way in online modes. Too much emphasis in 1v1 play make the game stale. I would love to see elite passers being a valuable asset to their team. Rather than simply relying on a scoring PG to draw doubles and help defense to get wide open shooters who don't move.
    There should absolutely be mechanics in the game that discourage 1v1 play and promote ball movement and slowing the game down. Right now every game in Rec that's played at a high level is getting stops, pushing the tempo, or playing iso ball in a half court set.
    I think it would take much more than a simple 1 size fits all mechanic, but a huge philosophical change in the gameplay entirely.
    If you watch the Nuggets play, they run the offense through Jokic. They're one of the most original bass-ackwards offenses on today's Modern NBA as their PG is primarily an off ball scorer. This would be amazing to see a team completely reverse the meta online. Post play has been in decline for years in 2k and we actually tried to look at the MyPlayer builder yesterday trying to make a big that could shoot, dribble, and post while still finishing at a high clip. I'm not saying that the Nuggets are the craziest offense ever, but it would be interesting to see teams play inside-out vs. Outside-in.
    The pick and roll action in this game is pretty decent. But there isn't enough separation between a great rim runner and just a giant who's big. Players like Blake Griffin can run the break, run PNR as the main ball handler, and also post up. This player is currently unavailable in the MyPlayer modes. And when using a team like the Pistons online, they don't replicate what BG does when healthy. I think all around a shift in having more diversity in styles of play in every game mode would be welcome. MyTeam players have been saying there's a meta in the way that mode has been played for years. A PG ahhh can dribble, shoot,and finish shouldn't be the end all be all of 2k gameplay. Having a dominant C or PF like a Giannis would be amazing to see be effective.
    In some ways, I think you might have answered the question yourself in the article....."Bottom line, speed bursting around, doing one move while getting a pick, stopping on a dime and greening a shot do not make up an ideal way to engender creativity, so is there a better way?".
    Speed bursting off of certain dribble animations, pverall lack of correct player momentum, and the ease with which players can obtain a green release(made even worse by badges) are all problems that need to be addressed.
    Really IMO, there is an overall issue with the game just being built in a way that over emphasizes hunting for stats and highlight plays, and undervalues foundational team oriented basketball.
    ksuttonjr76
    Actually...we don't need decay. They just need to adjust shooting percentages where players can't shoot 80+% after dancing behind screens for most of the shot clock. Change that and the tactic moves from "all of the time" to "some of the time". I played a game last night where my opponent shot 9 of 10 from 3PT land by dancing behind screens. That was literally what they did for most of the game. Yes, I got 3 steals, but 3 steals can't overcome that type of shooting.

    But wouldn't decay sort of be the point of that? If your shooting stats have dipped by doing this for most of the shot clock, it would impact your ability to do that.
    Ehhhh IDK if this is really necessary. Maybe 2K should just...you know...remove green releases from the game because having a perfect release where the shot is guaranteed to go in is a silly arcadey game mechanic.
    And 2K still has work to do improving screens in general. No one IRL can set screens 8-10 times in a possession because the chances of a moving screen are much higher and because it would take too long. I always thought screens were "too fast" in 2K if that makes sense. You shouldn't be able to re-screen 6 times in like 8 seconds lol.
    Just remove handle for days badge.
    To much dribbling affect stamina.
    Fatique already affect your ratings.
    Increase this in general.
    Would stop people sprinting all day.
    Would stop spamming jump or steal or whatever people cry about.
    ksuttonjr76
    Actually...we don't need decay. They just need to adjust shooting percentages where players can't shoot 80+% after dancing behind screens for most of the shot clock. Change that and the tactic moves from "all of the time" to "some of the time". I played a game last night where my opponent shot 9 of 10 from 3PT land by dancing behind screens. That was literally what they did for most of the game. Yes, I got 3 steals, but 3 steals can't overcome that type of shooting.

    No they need to adjust the contest system because yet again it's so inconsistent. I can be right in front of my matchup and i put my hands up on his layup attempt with gold intimidator and it's 2% contest. Same exact play next time down the court and its 32%
    It's almost as if the contest % is just RNG lmao.
    ChaseB
    But wouldn't decay sort of be the point of that? If your shooting stats have dipped by doing this for most of the shot clock, it would impact your ability to do that.

    True, but there are so many offensive badges that it would have to be a extreme impact to the shooting stats for the decay to matter. At that point, it shifts from a "decay" impact to an artificial stat hit. To be fair, I'm somewhat against artificially dropping stats. In my mind, a decay would be a stat hit of 2-3 points max. The idea could work if you took away the ability to green releases, then it would fall more on the "skill" of the player's shooting ability.
    ksuttonjr76
    True, but there are so many offensive badges that it would have to be a extreme impact to the shooting stats for the decay to matter. At that point, it shifts from a "decay" impact to an artificial stat hit. To be fair, I'm somewhat against artificially dropping stats. In my mind, a decay would be a stat hit of 2-3 points max. The idea could work if you took away the ability to green releases, then it would fall more on the "skill" of the player's shooting ability.

    But this would also have to apply to finishing as well. You mean to tell me that if I'm running up court in transition off the ball and a teammate passes, i stop, do a dribble move and now I'm having a 2-3 point hit on my finishing ratings? It would have to be balanced a bit. Like for instance certain number of dribbles has a certain percent of effect.
    I think in general you shouldn't be able to green shots under a 90 three. And if you dribble 2-3 times it would put you under that 90 cap if you have a max of 95 three rating. Right now if you turn your shot meter off its like you get a +10 to your rating. I have a character with an 80 three 16 badge points and there's games i can't miss.
    Like i said, I'm down for anything that changes the current meta. But i don't want to see finishing characters take another hit as well. It's already way too difficult to finish from a standing position regardless of ratings. It's become increasingly difficult to finish OVER people as well. But just because i put the ball on the floor once it shouldn't affect me that way.
    2K takes one step forward, 3 steps back too much. They had this fixed in past 2K's with the fatigue if you over dribble thing. It discouraged this TRASH version of basketball we see in "comp" (who can cheese the most) pro am. Then what does 2K do? Here's your training wheels ya'll --> HOF handles for days, HOF unpluckable. Play great defense, don't matter, they have "badges". 2K is a multi cazillion dollar company or wtvr. It's time they actually have someone look at the effects of what kind of cheese meta their badges, ratings, and builds produce.
    probably wouldn't be so bad if fatigue/stamina/energy/turbo/etc... going down
    in this case decaying effected the shot release/timing so it would keep players honest.
    In all honesty, the first thing they should probably do is try toning down on the badges.I feel like issues might be more easily rectified if there wasn't about 17 "buffs" that all stack with each other interfering with the curve.

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