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Uncertainty Surrounds Madden 20's Superstar X-Factors

Madden NFL 20

Uncertainty Surrounds Madden 20's Superstar X-Factors

By now, most of us have seen the latest Madden 20 news from EA Play. And although there wasn’t any groundbreaking new features or details announced, it did give us a better look at some of this year’s newest additions. One of those features stood out above the rest as both polarizing and intriguing: Superstar X-Factors and Zone Abilities.

Let’s take a look at what we learned from yesterday’s event, and how it could make or break Madden 20.

What We Know About Superstar X-Factors 

For those who don’t know, Superstar X-Factors are special abilities superstars can unlock if they hit a variety of different milestones and in-game achievements. Of course, not every player has these abilities, but those who do can use their player-specific perks to exploit their opposition. Furthermore, it separates players and allows them to play accurately to their real-life counterparts.

Unfortunately, it’s not all sunshine and roses. And although the defense will have players who can stop or counter the offense’s X-Factors and Zones, the execution of this is most important. And with over seven weeks to go until Madden’s release, the real question Is how will it all play when the game is finally released.

Here is the good and the bad of Madden’s newest feature, Superstar X-Factors.

What I Like About Superstar X-Factors

For years, the argument could be made that players with elite talent never really felt different than the rest of the crowd in EA’s popular NFL franchise. This should change in Madden 20. This year, when playing with quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Patrick Mahomes, it will actually feel like you’re using those players. The top quarterbacks in the NFL will now have their signature styles and throwing motions implemented into the game. But this doesn’t just stop with the quarterback position. Over 60-plus players will have their real-life animations and skillful traits.

This will obviously bleed over into Superstar X-Factors and Zones. One of the players used at the EA Play event was Mahomes. And as we all witnessed last season, he’s a special type of player. So whether it’s throwing a ball 80 yards downfield, or he’s outrunning a defender and throwing a no-look pass perfectly on the run, this will come to fruition in this year’s game.

During the event, Madden developer Clint Oldenburg announced some of Mahomes’ traits. Here’s a look at what his X-Factors and Zone Abilities are, and how to obtain them.

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Can Mahomes Be Stopped?

As you can see, Mahomes has several different X-Factors. How many each player will have, and whether or not everyone will have Zone Abilities, is to be determined. What we do know, however, is that in order to knock players out of their X-Factor, the defense will have to reach an achievement of its own.

In the video released, Aaron Donald was the defensive superstar who was showcased to stop Mahomes. As we know, Donald is arguably the best defensive player in the NFL, so he is equipped with his own arsenal of Zone Abilities and X-Factors. However, you don’t need to have certain abilities to end a player’s X-Factor, you just need to be able to make a game-changing play. And in this instance, a sack is all it would take to knock Mahomes out of his “Bazooka” X-Factor.

In short, this seems like a good way to create more unique players while also giving defenses ways to counter.

What I Don’t Like About Superstar X-Factors

There are several concerns that could eventually snowball into issues as we inch closer and closer to the August 2 release. The biggest uncertainty for me is how unbalanced these X-Factors could be for teams with higher overall ratings. For instance, the Miami Dolphins are expected to be one of the worst teams in football next year. When looking over the roster, they have far less talent than some of the teams at the top of the NFL totem pole. So how will the lowly teams like Miami, Cincinnati, Washington and some of the other inferior teams look against the NFL powerhouses. Obviously, you want to see discrepancy between each and every team, but at what cost?

Now I know if you don’t want to watch Mahomes heave an 80-yard touchdown, it’s probably in your best interest to stop him. However, what if you’re just badly outmatched? Is your opponent officially unbeatable in this situation? That is what concerns me most about this new feature, and why the beta will be even more important this year than last. If the community believes these X-Factors are too overpowering, EA has a chance now to make those changes.

How EA manages to even the playing field and not make the ratings, Zone Abilities and Superstar X-Factors so overpowering is crucial. In my opinion, the X-Factors already give off an arcade feel to the game, so it will be interesting to see how the game speed (which looked good) and other aspects help keep the game more sim to its real-life counterpart. Each year, Madden moves more and more towards an open-field shootout (much like the real NFL). And while that appeals to competitive gamers, I’m not sure it does as much for those looking for more varied gameplay. So I will be watching this closely as the weeks progress.

Conclusion

There’s no telling how this will all pan out once Madden is released and available to the public. On paper, it seems like a step in the right direction for EA — and a welcomed addition from what we’ve become accustomed to. In theory, itt makes the game more realistic and makes each player that much more important. But what it will ultimately come down to is what the different Zone Abilities and X-Factors are and how easy they are to counter.

If you’re a die-hard fan of the Madden series, you’re probably going to love this new feature. Then again, if you’re one of the people who enjoy playing online, there’s a very good chance this new feature could cause disadvantages — forcing players to use teams with more superstars. This could make things extremely frustrating and overpowered, to say the least. This is where it will be up to EA to decide on a happy medium, which could be easier said than done. Whatever the end result, you have to give credit to EA for trying something different. After so many years of complacency, fans deserve the best of the best. There’s no telling how this will all end, but like a football shot out of Mahomes’ bazooka of an arm, we’re all just along for the ride.

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  1. Sure,i like that they are trying something different, but we had things that were cool before and they got rid of them and haven't seen them in years so what we have is a boring game we ha e today along with many glitches. Still has glitches after update 1.23.
    The announcers say things that haven't happened, defenders get frozen after a tackle, injuries alert show a guy injured while he is walking to the huddle, CPU and the dumb play calling, relocation cities not mentioned at all, etc.
    It's fun to play but it gets boring so for me I have to relocate some teams I don't like to make it interesting for me. So I welcome change, but bring back some things that were cool before. Make contracts realistic, moral booster, charactor behaviors, OCs and DCs. Players becoming head coaches.
    My main thing is I want to hear about Defensive -X-Factors. I know DLmen can be very powerful especially since I believe there is limited ways to stop them. Either got to do quick passing or hope you have a QB with protected ability. But I want to see how powerful LBs & DBs X-Factors can be. It feels like they can be neutralized by just avoiding them.
    Also, I want to know how CPU handles X-Factors. Is CPU going try to get X-Factors in the zone? Are they going to take advantage of Superstar and Zone Abilities? I know traits should help, but are we going to see CPU attempting those abilities? I like that Pocket Passers being more powerful. But I don't know how powerful the Zone Ability will be for CPU QBs. That ability is more User based. For a guy like Tom Brady will have 99 AWR and he will already see Open WRs quicker. So I don't see him being in the zone helping CPU making a huge difference. I'm a user vs. CPU player, so I want to CPU X-Factors and Superstars to really stand out.
    To me these two aspects from the Deep Dive should help ease any concerns dealing with any advantages/disadvantages the feature may/may not create, whether Online or Offline Play.
    I see Player Differentiation and a need to know your players/roster strengths and weaknesses and call a game plan that best utilize those players abilities, what ever they may be.
    Everyone has been asking for Player Differentiation and greater gameplay Strategy.
    Well here you go!!!
    **Maybe we’re getting too caught up in the names/identifiers because most of this we have already been playing with already.
    I just see these features as a “Quick” identifier to help give some context as to why an interaction/outcome happened that involved this player.
    - my LB/DB is getting beat by Edelman because they do not posses the “Ability” to balance/counter his Abilities (ie Rams Super Bowl)
    - I then need to call a defense or double him (forgotten mechanism) to help, but the risk is it may create a coverage issue some where else.
    I love it!!!
    I just wish they weren't tied to development traits. Football is a game with so many specialists as opposed to "superstars." Every player should have the opportunity to earn an ability, but just because you have an ability doesn't mean you deserve to be star dev and become 90 overall.
    For example, how about a trait for an elite gunner on punt coverage that makes him shed his block quicker and easier. Or an elite return man that makes guys miss and reads blocking well. Those are 2 good abilities if madden decides to expand this in the future. Neither deserve to be a star dev player though.
    Just another instance of madden completely missing the mark of a new feature.
    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    Ok , I'm a Chiefs fan and after spending years playing with bottom of the barrel Chiefs teams (yeah I used the 2-14 teams) I was excited about Madden 20 until I saw this video. Fast forward to the 14:50 mark and watch the segment on Mahomes. Dude looks like he's going to be unstoppable. I really wish EA would forget about these foolish gimmicks like X factor and superstar and just give us a dam realistic football game. The only team I've ever used in any football game is the Chiefs and to be honest I don't want my QB to turn into superman after I complete 4 - 30 yard passes. I know Mahomes is a special kind of talent and the kid had an amazing season last year but come on man.
    What will they do with Tyreek Hill give him a super speed of 150?
    https://youtu.be/EppquLBUfpg
    JMD
    Ok , I'm a Chiefs fan and after spending years playing with bottom of the barrel Chiefs teams (yeah I used the 2-14 teams) I was excited about Madden 20 until I saw this video. Fast forward to the 14:50 mark and watch the segment on Mahomes. Dude looks like he's going to be unstoppable. I really wish EA would forget about these foolish gimmicks like X factor and superstar and just give us a dam realistic football game. The only team I've ever used in any football game is the Chiefs and to be honest I don't want my QB to turn into superman after I complete 4 - 30 yard passes. I know Mahomes is a special kind of talent and the kid had an amazing season last year but come on man.
    What will they do with Tyreek Hill give him a super speed of 150?
    https://youtu.be/EppquLBUfpg

    Yeah, that Mahomes move to the right and back to the left didn't sit well with me and some of us are hoping it was because it was on Arcade mode, but, we know the past, too.
    So, hopefully, that won't rear it's ugly head in user vs cpu sim mode.
    XtremeDunkz
    I just wish they weren't tied to development traits. Football is a game with so many specialists as opposed to "superstars." Every player should have the opportunity to earn an ability, but just because you have an ability doesn't mean you deserve to be star dev and become 90 overall.
    For example, how about a trait for an elite gunner on punt coverage that makes him shed his block quicker and easier. Or an elite return man that makes guys miss and reads blocking well. Those are 2 good abilities if madden decides to expand this in the future. Neither deserve to be a star dev player though.
    Just another instance of madden completely missing the mark of a new feature.
    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

    :appl: I couldn't agree with you more. If I start a franchise with the Patriots what am I doing with Matthew Slater? I'm cutting him. Right off the bat. He has a role with the Patriots but it's not as a WR, he's not a superstar, but his ability to cover punts and kickoffs is amazing. No use for him in Madden.
    I think these are either going to be a huge success, or a catostrophic failure. The margin of error for these are so small I think it's impossible to create a happy medium.
    I'm all for player differentiation, but these definitely have a very arcadey feeling to them. I am really hoping I am wrong. I actually loved madden last year and stuck with it longer than I have in 5 years. Then EA did what EA always does and patched the game to all hell in favor of competitive players. Why even have a competitive, sim and arcade option if you are just going to universally tune the game to competitive play?
    Therebelyell626
    I think these are either going to be a huge success, or a catostrophic failure. The margin of error for these are so small I think it's impossible to create a happy medium.
    I'm all for player differentiation, but these definitely have a very arcadey feeling to them. I am really hoping I am wrong. I actually loved madden last year and stuck with it longer than I have in 5 years. Then EA did what EA always does and patched the game to all hell in favor of competitive players. Why even have a competitive, sim and arcade option if you are just going to universally tune the game to competitive play?

    Actually, after the Feb. title update, the game was good again, I will stress in user vs cpu sim mode CFM.
    roadman
    Actually, after the Feb. title update, the game was good again, I will stress in user vs cpu sim mode CFM.

    I was already done at that point for the year. I tend to play a lot of different sports games and these games have cycles for me. But it's also good to hear that EA didn't just give up last year and tried to get it right.
    I know tiburon gets a bad a rap, but the dev team has been much much better not to mention transparent for the last 3 years.
    Ok. I see where this is heading. I expect this to be an epic fail. We've all played the game; we've all had that moment where we knew that the AI was going to do what it wanted it do and there was no a single thing you could do to stop it. So now, they pretty much justified it with this X factor thing.
    Sign... all I asked for was a mode where all the players played to their ratings. Not one gimmick after the next. This is going to be a disaster requiring multiple patches to get it right.
    Therebelyell626
    I was already done at that point for the year. I tend to play a lot of different sports games and these games have cycles for me. But it's also good to hear that EA didn't just give up last year and tried to get it right.
    I know tiburon gets a bad a rap, but the dev team has been much much better not to mention transparent for the last 3 years.

    This, and we all found out they don't make the final decisions on what goes into the game.
    JMD
    Ok , I'm a Chiefs fan and after spending years playing with bottom of the barrel Chiefs teams (yeah I used the 2-14 teams) I was excited about Madden 20 until I saw this video. Fast forward to the 14:50 mark and watch the segment on Mahomes. Dude looks like he's going to be unstoppable. I really wish EA would forget about these foolish gimmicks like X factor and superstar and just give us a dam realistic football game. The only team I've ever used in any football game is the Chiefs and to be honest I don't want my QB to turn into superman after I complete 4 - 30 yard passes. I know Mahomes is a special kind of talent and the kid had an amazing season last year but come on man.
    What will they do with Tyreek Hill give him a super speed of 150?
    https://youtu.be/EppquLBUfpg

    Further and further away from actually simulating football
    Until they listen to the core group of fans this is the type of foolishness we can expect year after year. EA has shown they’re all about money & MUT & gimmicks is what drives them. Not impressed from what I saw
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    "So how will the lowly teams like Miami, Cincinnati, Washington and some of the other inferior teams look against the NFL powerhouses."
    Honestly I don't get this perspective at all. That's real life. Those teams suck and it takes plays like the Miracle in Miami for them to beat good teams. So if that is now more accurately represented in Madden, how is that a bad thing?
    PhillyPhanatic14
    "So how will the lowly teams like Miami, Cincinnati, Washington and some of the other inferior teams look against the NFL powerhouses."
    Honestly I don't get this perspective at all. That's real life. Those teams suck and it takes plays like the Miracle in Miami for them to beat good teams. So if that is now more accurately represented in Madden, how is that a bad thing?

    The FUD is strong on this web site. There is no use talking logic.
    This game might eat your first born! You just don't know!
    I'm confused by the article. You are saying you don't want there to be a disparity between good and bad teams?.. Too many teams feel alike right now, I don't feel a difference between good and bad, and that's something I want implemented.
    "The biggest uncertainty for me is how unbalanced these X-Factors could be for teams with higher overall ratings. For instance, the Miami Dolphins are expected to be one of the worst teams in football next year. When looking over the roster, they have far less talent than some of the teams at the top of the NFL totem pole. "
    illwill10
    My main thing is I want to hear about Defensive -X-Factors. I know DLmen can be very powerful especially since I believe there is limited ways to stop them. Either got to do quick passing or hope you have a QB with protected ability. But I want to see how powerful LBs & DBs X-Factors can be. It feels like they can be neutralized by just avoiding them....

    Yes! I hope corners and safeties also have these abilities, but somehow I'm doubting it..
    PhillyPhanatic14
    "So how will the lowly teams like Miami, Cincinnati, Washington and some of the other inferior teams look against the NFL powerhouses."
    Honestly I don't get this perspective at all. That's real life. Those teams suck and it takes plays like the Miracle in Miami for them to beat good teams. So if that is now more accurately represented in Madden, how is that a bad thing?

    Yep, 100% agreed.
    pimpycraig
    Yes! I hope corners and safeties also have these abilities, but somehow I'm doubting it..

    I know there are DB X-Factors. But I wish they would have went over a DB X-Factors. Especially with how powerful QBs will be.
    I don't really see how powerful DBs will be even with Zone abilities. Unless you are user-controlling them, I don't see them having a big impact. I can see for the run stuffers. But how can they truly make coverage DB zone ability impactful. Unless they have them being able to read the play or not bite on double moves or don't lose on presses, I don't really see DBs being able to truly counter.
    PhillyPhanatic14
    "So how will the lowly teams like Miami, Cincinnati, Washington and some of the other inferior teams look against the NFL powerhouses."
    Honestly I don't get this perspective at all. That's real life. Those teams suck and it takes plays like the Miracle in Miami for them to beat good teams. So if that is now more accurately represented in Madden, how is that a bad thing?

    I agree. I think they said only X-Factor on Miami is Xavien Howard. I don't have a problem with that. I want those elite teams to really stand out from bad teams. In the past, most teams felt the same. It was all about execution, not talent. Did anyone truly fear going against the Patriots in the past. In cases, they were a easy team to challenge. Didn't have gamebreakers outside of Tom and Gronk. Now with the X-Factors and Superstar abilities, Patriots should be a tougher team
    This system is going to be excellent. Now there is an incentive to focus on key players in a game. Who double teamed Antonio Brown last season in Madden? I didn't. Doubt anyone realistically did it either. Now, it would be a great idea to double team him.
    It may be a good idea to avoid getting sacked 3 times. I believe that is the magic number to activate one of the abilities?
    In all honesty, as I see it, if you get lit up by an X-factor ability activating, that is all on you. Do better next time to stop the key player(s). You could also just drop down to rookie. lol
    4thQtrStre5S
    This system is going to be excellent. Now there is an incentive to focus on key players in a game. Who double teamed Antonio Brown last season in Madden? I didn't. Doubt anyone realistically did it either. Now, it would be a great idea to double team him.
    It may be a good idea to avoid getting sacked 3 times. I believe that is the magic number to activate one of the abilities?
    In all honesty, as I see it, if you get lit up by an X-factor ability activating, that is all on you. Do better next time to stop the key player(s). You could also just drop down to rookie. lol

    I'd like to agree, but why does it feel like doubling won't achieve anything? I could be off but my impression of this system is X-Factor players are going to get theirs, you just have to hope your X-Factor guys getting theirs will swing the pendulum back hard enough.
    Will we be able to effectively double team a defensive lineman?
    Nza
    I'd like to agree, but why does it feel like doubling won't achieve anything? I could be off but my impression of this system is X-Factor players are going to get theirs, you just have to hope your X-Factor guys getting theirs will swing the pendulum back hard enough.
    Will we be able to effectively double team a defensive lineman?

    Thats the issue. We still aren't able to manually double a DLineman. Blocking still looked broken on some of those clips especially on one where the guard goes around the tackle to double team a rusher. It seems like your going to need to have a QB with the protected ability to help it. Said no X-Factor OL, but not sure if they confirmed no superstar OL abilities. If not, ratings will HAVE to counter it. If I have a elite pass blocker, I want fhat to counter the rushers.
    illwill10
    Thats the issue. We still aren't able to manually double a DLineman. Blocking still looked broken on some of those clips especially on one where the guard goes around the tackle to double team a rusher. It seems like your going to need to have a QB with the protected ability to help it. Said no X-Factor OL, but not sure if they confirmed no superstar OL abilities. If not, ratings will HAVE to counter it. If I have a elite pass blocker, I want fhat to counter the rushers.

    It's a concern because the top OT's in the league rarely have bad games, even against elite rushers. Teams heavily gameplan an elite rusher out of a game as much as they can but I feel top OTs tend to beat top DEs more often than not. Most top D rushers feast on weaker competition.
    Nza
    I'd like to agree, but why does it feel like doubling won't achieve anything? I could be off but my impression of this system is X-Factor players are going to get theirs, you just have to hope your X-Factor guys getting theirs will swing the pendulum back hard enough.
    Will we be able to effectively double team a defensive lineman?

    I have seen a great HB block on an edge rusher so far. Granted that doesn't guarantee consistency. I am looking forward to seeing how ID Mike, sliding OL and blocking the RB work in M20.
    I believe doubling may work, as I noticed one of the X-factors involving JuJu Smith-Schuster is named something like "double Team Me" and in the video he dominates 1v1 coverage while in the zone, which definitely seems that a double team is how to stop JuJu's x-factor zone. Thus there are counters even once a player reaches the zone.
    We also have playcalling. If an Edge player gets in the zone, maybe run the opposite side or up the middle. Short passes. I believe the zones are a means to direct the user into necessitating key opponent players and making adjustments as would happen in real life, while also awarding players for using key players in their schemes where in past Madden games I could play a whole game with Antonio Brown sitting on the bench and still not feel a negative impact, or need to use him. Now I need and want to use him for what he can do for my team.
    Now that the initial wave of Madden Hyperbole has subsided some surrounding Player Abilities, I revisited the Deep Dive to get a better idea of what we’re dealing with.
    Just some aspects to that can be overlooked during the initial reveal and immediate discussion following.
    Waiting on response from Clint/Dev to clarify that most players in league will be under Normal/Star umbrella.
    Along with the max Abilities a Superstar can possess.
    Lastly, can a Superstar Ability be lost due to age/injury etc...
    illwill10
    Thats the issue. We still aren't able to manually double a DLineman. Blocking still looked broken on some of those clips especially on one where the guard goes around the tackle to double team a rusher. It seems like your going to need to have a QB with the protected ability to help it. Said no X-Factor OL, but not sure if they confirmed no superstar OL abilities. If not, ratings will HAVE to counter it. If I have a elite pass blocker, I want fhat to counter the rushers.

    A guard flaring out around a tackle isn't a glitch. That's called a "dual read". Comments like this are why no one at EA takes you guys seriously.
    This is a nice add, that finally there’s a “Tangible” application of Throw/Release Time QB’s we will have to consider.
    Don’t know how many different Throwing Animations there will be, but another way of bringing some “Context” as to why a QB may/may not be performing a certain way.
    stinkubus
    This has been true since at least M25.

    That they've mentioned it or that you need to double AB? I haven't doubled him once, ever, and I don't remember getting constantly burnt by him.
    As with all of these injections, I will need to see this impact while on Sim Mode and not while played on one of the other styles.
    Also like that “Ratings” and not just Superstar Abilities will factor into the amount of pressure imposed on a QB, as there will be players who are just Normal/Star.
    PhillyPhanatic14
    That they've mentioned it or that you need to double AB? I haven't doubled him once, ever, and I don't remember getting constantly burnt by him.

    I was referring to the need to pay him extra attention. The fact the AI is incapable of appropriately exploiting their match up advantage is moot. The advantage still exists.
    You can run your entire offense through a WR of AB's caliber, and since the AI doesn't have the tools at its disposal to do anything about it it's GG as soon as they step on the field.
    They are even more effective against humans. If the opponent commits their user to him the rest of your options should be running wild against the AI. If they don't commit their user then you should be able to schematically draw them away from your elite receiver.
    You can't do this with lesser players (even fast ones) because you need elite SPC and good CIT to have a legitimate shot at pulling in most high/low points.
    Anyone who isn't taking full advantage of ball placement and user catching won't get the most out of these players.
    stinkubus
    A guard flaring out around a tackle isn't a glitch. That's called a "dual read". Comments like this are why no one at EA takes you guys seriously.

    Thanks for clarifying.
    I just hope in next generation they rebuild the line interaction. Elite OLmen don't really stand out. Feels too reliant on dicerolls
    From what I watched, I like the idea of the new features and abilities for players with x factor. However, i thought some of the moves looked kind of fake and unnatural. Also, the defensive A.I seems off. Who knows maybe the gameplay video’s we’re being played on pro difficulty instead of all pro, making the defense kind of lazy. Anyways I’m sure all that stuff I mentioned will be fixed with patches. And will even out the gameplay.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    stinkubus
    A guard flaring out around a tackle isn't a glitch. That's called a "dual read". Comments like this are why no one at EA takes you guys seriously.

    illwill10
    Thanks for clarifying.
    I just hope in next generation they rebuild the line interaction. Elite OLmen don't really stand out. Feels too reliant on dicerolls
    Just researched "dual read" blocking. Nothing came up. Watched a few videos breaking down double team drills as well. And not once did I see a guard morph around the tackle and double team an end. There is no way in hell that a guard would do that and allow the inside to open up. I'm calling 100% BS
    Edit: For clarification, I am talking about pass plays. Not "pulling guard" run plays.
    Kid OS
    Just researched "dual read" blocking. Nothing came up. Watched a few videos breaking down double team drills as well. And not once did I see a guard morph around the tackle and double team an end. There is no way in hell that a guard would do that and allow the inside to open up. I'm calling 100% BS
    Edit: For clarification, I am talking about pass plays. Not "pulling guard" run plays.

    Dual-Read
    http://smartfootball.com/pass-protection/what-are-the-basic-principles-of-dropback-pass-protection#sthash.l6MzJOxQ.dpbs
    Thanks. That's not double teaming the end though. It's one thing if the tackle and guard "switch" and are assigned to block 1 person each. We're upset that the tackle stays in his spot and blocks his man, but the guard morphs behind the tackle and doubles the same guy. That's not right. That appears to be a legacy issue with the AI.
    Kid OS
    Thanks. That's not double teaming the end though. It's one thing if the tackle and guard "switch" and are assigned to block 1 person each. We're upset that the tackle stays in his spot and blocks his man, but the guard morphs behind the tackle and doubles the same guy. That's not right. That appears to be a legacy issue with the AI.

    Thats what I was getting to.
    "The dual-read is simply where a single blocker is responsible for two-men: if one rushes, he gets blocked; if one doesn’t rush and two rushes, the blocker must wheel out and block them; but if they both rush, the blocker takes the most urgent threat (the inside blitzer) but the quarterback must know he has to throw hot or throw it away (or run like hell)." In terms of Madden that does happen.
    Like Kid-OS said, I don't like the guard morphing around to outside edge of engaged OT/DE and they are blocking the edge rusher to to the inside giving him inside leverage
    My questions regarding these abilities is:
    Through several seasons of progression, if a random player with "Star" development progresses to "Superstar", what happens?
    - Does he just become a Superstar?
    - Is it a % chance that he becomes a "Superstar X Factor"?
    - Or is it a linear progression?
    example: Star -> Superstar -> Superstar X
    Upon becoming a Superstar:
    - Does he just "bloom" random abilities relative to his position?
    - Does he get a "bundle pack" of Star abilities in one shot?
    - Or does he slowly acquire them as he plays his duration as a Superstar?
    This X-Factor abilities going to have me in the nut house before the game arrives fam :lol:
    Sucram7777
    My questions regarding these abilities is:
    Through several seasons of progression, if a random player with "Star" development progresses to "Superstar", what happens?
    - Does he just become a Superstar?
    - Is it a % chance that he becomes a "Superstar X Factor"?
    - Or is it a linear progression?
    example: Star -> Superstar -> Superstar X

    It's a linear progression. So whereas last year the DEV traits were Normal, Quick, Star and Superstar, this year the DEV traits are Normal, Star, Superstar and Superstar X-Factor. Superstar can have star abilities while Superstar X-Factor can have both star and zone abilities.
    Sucram7777
    Upon becoming a Superstar:
    - Does he just "bloom" random abilities relative to his position?
    - Does he get a "bundle pack" of Star abilities in one shot?
    - Or does he slowly acquire them as he plays his duration as a Superstar?

    The abilities will be based on the players archetype. So a Scrambling QB is more likely to earn something like Escape Artist or On the Run Deadeye while Field General will be more likely to earn something like Red Zone Deadeye.
    He'll earn the abilities at different OVR's so hypothetically at 87 OVR he'll unlock an ability when using a skill point and then at 92 he'll earn another one. I'm pretty sure it's the same for the Zone abilities where once you're a Superstar X-Factor, you have to hit a certain OVR but I could be wrong as it's slipping my mind right now.
    DeuceDouglas
    It's a linear progression. So whereas last year the DEV traits were Normal, Quick, Star and Superstar, this year the DEV traits are Normal, Star, Superstar and Superstar X-Factor. Superstar can have star abilities while Superstar X-Factor can have both star and zone abilities.
    The abilities will be based on the players archetype. So a Scrambling QB is more likely to earn something like Escape Artist or On the Run Deadeye while Field General will be more likely to earn something like Red Zone Deadeye.
    He'll earn the abilities at different OVR's so hypothetically at 87 OVR he'll unlock an ability when using a skill point and then at 92 he'll earn another one. I'm pretty sure it's the same for the Zone abilities where once you're a Superstar X-Factor, you have to hit a certain OVR but I could be wrong as it's slipping my mind right now.

    Ahhh thanks man.
    I hope one day they'll get onboard with YOUR Badge system.
    I still have an issue when it comes to perfect passing accuracy with some of abilities. I get there has to be no immediate pressure, no hi/low throws, receivers ratings. But I don't like the "perfect accuracy". There are plenty of times you see elite QBs are off on some throws and even completely miss throws. I would rather seen "Higher accuracy" not perfect.
    illwill10
    I still have an issue when it comes to perfect passing accuracy with some of abilities. I get there has to be no immediate pressure, no hi/low throws, receivers ratings. But I don't like the "perfect accuracy". There are plenty of times you see elite QBs are off on some throws and even completely miss throws. I would rather seen "Higher accuracy" not perfect.

    Indeed.
    And what you said about "The CPU utilizing this too" got my COMPLETE attention.
    As a fellow Offline player - the CPU not taking advantage of X Factor weapons they have - would be very underwhelming.
    illwill10
    I still have an issue when it comes to perfect passing accuracy with some of abilities. I get there has to be no immediate pressure, no hi/low throws, receivers ratings. But I don't like the "perfect accuracy". There are plenty of times you see elite QBs are off on some throws and even completely miss throws. I would rather seen "Higher accuracy" not perfect.

    Again you’re getting way too caught up in the name/title.
    Then on top of that, there are other variables that will be in play whether there’s still a catch or not.
    The perfect accuracy traits are worrying. They stated at EAPlay that it literally is the absolute best accuracy you can have in the game. That is troubling to hear. I'd be okay if the traits made it to where he didn't suffer any penalties to the accuracy ratings they had in certain circumstances, but the fact that the traits boost his accuracy ratings to the point where he has the absolute best most perfect accuracy in the game is not what I wanted to hear.
    Sucram7777
    Indeed.
    And what you said about "The CPU utilizing this too" got my COMPLETE attention.
    As a fellow Offline player - the CPU not taking advantage of X Factor weapons they have - would be very underwhelming.

    Agreed. That's what I want to know as a Offline player.
    I'm assuming the Trait system is still there and the same, so that'll factor in if they use their abilities. But I want to know if the CPU is even aware if they are in the zone to take advantage of those abilities. Even if a CPU is behind the 20-25 yard line, I don't think CPU is going know that his QB is in the zone and has bazooka to attempt that pass.
    I can see a lot of Superstar abilities helping the CPU play better. Where their superstars will stand out more just because of the abilities. With the new superstar driven play calling, I expect the CPU to put their stars in the position to use the abilities. I just don't know if the AI is smart enough to know when to use them. Like I have a RB or WR with Matchup nightmare, I'm going to call plays at times to have them lined up against LBs. I don't know if the CPU will.
    khaliib
    Again you’re getting way too caught up in the name/title.
    Then on top of that, there are other variables that will be in play whether there’s still a catch or not.

    I get that I might be overreacting. I know it's a video game, I just don't like seeing the word perfect. I think I'm overreacting because we don't know all about the defensive superstar abilities and X-Factors. If they some coverage abilities that can truly counter these offensive abilites, then I will okay with it. I just have to wait and see.
    If the AI doesn't realize that these abilities even exist and never gameplans around them then that will be extremely weak. If I play with the Steelers I want to see the CPU doubling him. If I am playing the Steelers I want to see them try and take advantage of whenever I don't double him. I want them to catch on to me doubling him and take advantage of where I am making my defense weaker.
    Considering how the AI in Madden does not gameplan and calls plays at random with no true strategy to it I am going to assume that the AI won't really change its behavior much if any with these abilities until we are shown otherwise.
    If you don't know how to play football then this concerns you, if you do know how to play football this excites you, that's what it comes down to for me. I have know problem playing the game on default All Madden just know how to play real football and the game will play a natural game of football. There's nothing unstoppable in Madden you have to gameplan and scheme something up but everything in the game is stoppable. There's counters to everything and this will be no different! 
    canes21
    If the AI doesn't realize that these abilities even exist and never gameplans around them then that will be extremely weak. If I play with the Steelers I want to see the CPU doubling him. If I am playing the Steelers I want to see them try and take advantage of whenever I don't double him. I want them to catch on to me doubling him and take advantage of where I am making my defense weaker.
    Considering how the AI in Madden does not gameplan and calls plays at random with no true strategy to it I am going to assume that the AI won't really change its behavior much if any with these abilities until we are shown otherwise.

    Exactly. If the AI is brain dead with these new features then that will be a big let down.
    canes21
    If the AI doesn't realize that these abilities even exist and never gameplans around them then that will be extremely weak. If I play with the Steelers I want to see the CPU doubling him. If I am playing the Steelers I want to see them try and take advantage of whenever I don't double him. I want them to catch on to me doubling him and take advantage of where I am making my defense weaker.
    Considering how the AI in Madden does not gameplan and calls plays at random with no true strategy to it I am going to assume that the AI won't really change its behavior much if any with these abilities until we are shown otherwise.

    Clint noted some time back how delicate this aspect is to tune because gamers will quickly say the AI is Broke, Cheating, Robo, Psych etc.., as the tuning would work through the “Difficulty” levels in the game, and if we quickly remember, they just “Watered Down” All-Madden which represents their highest difficulty level.
    I want greater Matchup AI also but at the same time, don’t want to feel cheated by the AI just to pass off some form of AI Intellect/Game planning.
    How would they go about this without the wishlist of something that requires a rebuild?
    khaliib
    Clint noted some time back how delicate this aspect is to tune because gamers will quickly say the AI is Broke, Cheating, Robo, Psych etc.., as the tuning would work through the “Difficulty” levels in the game, and if we quickly remember, they just “Watered Down” All-Madden which represents their highest difficulty level.
    I want greater Matchup AI also but at the same time, don’t want to feel cheated by the AI just to pass off some form of AI Intellect/Game planning.
    How would they go about this without the wishlist of something that requires a rebuild?

    I had a big write-up going into detail what I believe the AI should be able to do on a weekly basis inside of the franchise mode as well as in general Play Now games, but it would potentially derail the topic so I am going to just delete it and post this instead. I think that when EA first thought of this idea to make every player and team feel more different that they should have had a gameplan to make the AI smarter on and off the field and make decisions based off of its rosters in more logical ways instead of being seemingly random like now.
    The CPU should analyze where it is strongest on the field, where it is weakest, and then make the same exact analysis for the opposing team. It should then see how it matches up against the other team and be able to call plays based off of that at the beginning. It should then take into account the success it is having and the tendencies of the opposing team. If the CPU team sees it has an advantage in run blocking at the line and has a pretty good back it should feed him the ball. If it sees the opposing team is slow to adjust and isn't loading the box then it keeps feeding its back(s). If the opposing team has a tendency to adjust quickly then the CPU team will see that and analyze where it had the next best matchup and then also analyze the way the opposing team is playing and combine those two pieces of knowledge and start calling plays to reflect that.
    A system setup like that will obviously allow the CPU to understand that it has superstars and where it has them. It will see how those stars matchup against the other team and try to feed them as much as it can when it can. It will also be able to adjust and if the other team is shading 2-3 DBs onto their star WR then it will take note and look at the other WRs or try to run the ball if the box is weak. Would it require EA to put quite some effort into the CPU AI to get this into the game? Probably. It should be in the game already in 2019, but it isn't. It should have been one of the next logical steps when they built the schemes system, but we all see how that hasn't been built on really. They've added new schemes, but have not really given the AI the knowledge to actually understand these schemes. All the AI knows is what player is rated best based on the way the schemes formulate OVR's.
    I guess to answer your question, there may not be a way for EA to get the CPU to know it has stars and to call plays properly for that and what the opposing team is doing as well. It should have been one of the first things done after schemes were implemented. Now that they have this abilities stuff added into the game it should be one of the very next steps as well.
    Some will see this as a silly question but have we got confirmation that cpu teams will take into account players with xfactors/superstar abilities? Is CPU Matt Ryan going to try to cpu Julio more than other wrs to get him going?
    canes21
    I had a big write-up going into detail what I believe the AI should be able to do on a weekly basis inside of the franchise mode as well as in general Play Now games, but it would potentially derail the topic so I am going to just delete it and post this instead. I think that when EA first thought of this idea to make every player and team feel more different that they should have had a gameplan to make the AI smarter on and off the field and make decisions based off of its rosters in more logical ways instead of being seemingly random like now.
    The CPU should analyze where it is strongest on the field, where it is weakest, and then make the same exact analysis for the opposing team. It should then see how it matches up against the other team and be able to call plays based off of that at the beginning. It should then take into account the success it is having and the tendencies of the opposing team. If the CPU team sees it has an advantage in run blocking at the line and has a pretty good back it should feed him the ball. If it sees the opposing team is slow to adjust and isn't loading the box then it keeps feeding its back(s). If the opposing team has a tendency to adjust quickly then the CPU team will see that and analyze where it had the next best matchup and then also analyze the way the opposing team is playing and combine those two pieces of knowledge and start calling plays to reflect that.
    A system setup like that will obviously allow the CPU to understand that it has superstars and where it has them. It will see how those stars matchup against the other team and try to feed them as much as it can when it can. It will also be able to adjust and if the other team is shading 2-3 DBs onto their star WR then it will take note and look at the other WRs or try to run the ball if the box is weak. Would it require EA to put quite some effort into the CPU AI to get this into the game? Probably. It should be in the game already in 2019, but it isn't. It should have been one of the next logical steps when they built the schemes system, but we all see how that hasn't been built on really. They've added new schemes, but have not really given the AI the knowledge to actually understand these schemes. All the AI knows is what player is rated best based on the way the schemes formulate OVR's.
    I guess to answer your question, there may not be a way for EA to get the CPU to know it has stars and to call plays properly for that and what the opposing team is doing as well. It should have been one of the first things done after schemes were implemented. Now that they have this abilities stuff added into the game it should be one of the very next steps as well.

    I agree.
    I feel these abilities and X-Factors will benefit User vs. User more than User vs. CPU. CPU AI isn't smart enough to know if he has stars and to know to use those abilities.
    I always felt Madden issue was the lack of true tendency system. I honestly would have preferred a tendency system over abilities. I feel ratings should cover most of the abilities discussed. They are pretty much increasing the probability of it happening. I liked the idea of the Trait system they have. The problem is that it's a feature they implemented and haven't touched since year 2. For the longest time, gameplay was determined by ratings and dicerolls alone. A full tendency system would improve CPU AI. That way with tendencies, at least they try to replicate real life tendencies
    I hope with next gen they don't bring over a lot of these legacy issues. Most likely we will get a next gen version next year when the consoles dropped like what happened with Madden 25. That'll most likely just be improved graphics. But I do see next gen heavily affecting Madden 21 since they will be developing with the next gen dev kits along with current.
    illwill10
    I agree.
    I feel these abilities and X-Factors will benefit User vs. User more than User vs. CPU. CPU AI isn't smart enough to know if he has stars and to know to use those abilities.
    I always felt Madden issue was the lack of true tendency system. I honestly would have preferred a tendency system over abilities. I feel ratings should cover most of the abilities discussed. They are pretty much increasing the probability of it happening. I liked the idea of the Trait system they have. The problem is that it's a feature they implemented and haven't touched since year 2. For the longest time, gameplay was determined by ratings and dicerolls alone. A full tendency system would improve CPU AI. That way with tendencies, at least they try to replicate real life tendencies
    I hope with next gen they don't bring over a lot of these legacy issues. Most likely we will get a next gen version next year when the consoles dropped like what happened with Madden 25. That'll most likely just be improved graphics. But I do see next gen heavily affecting Madden 21 since they will be developing with the next gen dev kits along with current.
    Yes bruh! Tendencies are what's needed, but that doesn't sound as cool as "X-FACTOR SUPER DUPER STAR ABILITIES!". In my mind, implementing tendencies could be a series of "if-then" coding lines that affect the dice roll percentages for animations. I know for a fact that this is a million times easier said than done, but the concept can't be that far off from being a realistic approach.
    illwill10
    I agree.
    I feel these abilities and X-Factors will benefit User vs. User more than User vs. CPU. CPU AI isn't smart enough to know if he has stars and to know to use those abilities.
    I always felt Madden issue was the lack of true tendency system. I honestly would have preferred a tendency system over abilities. I feel ratings should cover most of the abilities discussed. They are pretty much increasing the probability of it happening. I liked the idea of the Trait system they have. The problem is that it's a feature they implemented and haven't touched since year 2. For the longest time, gameplay was determined by ratings and dicerolls alone. A full tendency system would improve CPU AI. That way with tendencies, at least they try to replicate real life tendencies
    I hope with next gen they don't bring over a lot of these legacy issues. Most likely we will get a next gen version next year when the consoles dropped like what happened with Madden 25. That'll most likely just be improved graphics. But I do see next gen heavily affecting Madden 21 since they will be developing with the next gen dev kits along with current.

    A tendency system for players, coaches, and GM's would be amazing. If we had coordinators that had tendencies for the way they call the game, the way they prep for games, the way they adjust in game, etc. then playing against the CPU would be just as deep as playing a user.
    Maybe there is a 2% chance that EA has seemingly made little progress annually lately(really for more than just lately) because they've been building a new game from the ground up for the new generation of consoles and PC. I know that is not happening at all, but you got to have faith.
    Has Clint said anything about how these X-Factors affect opposing players? For instance, if Mahomes has perfect accuracy, is this going to cause the defender to "hitch" for a millisecond and allow a "perfect pass" animation to play out? Or for linemen, will Donald's ability cause the OG to morph around the OT and allow Donald to easily reach the QB?
    Kid OS
    Has Clint said anything about how these X-Factors affect opposing players? For instance, if Mahomes has perfect accuracy, is this going to cause the defender to "hitch" for a millisecond and allow a "perfect pass" animation to play out? Or for linemen, will Donald's ability cause the OG to morph around the OT and allow Donald to easily reach the QB?

    Does it matter?
    JayhawkerStL
    Does it matter?

    Why would that not matter? The traits should make that player better, not make the other players artificially worse.
    Kid OS
    Has Clint said anything about how these X-Factors affect opposing players? For instance, if Mahomes has perfect accuracy, is this going to cause the defender to "hitch" for a millisecond and allow a "perfect pass" animation to play out? Or for linemen, will Donald's ability cause the OG to morph around the OT and allow Donald to easily reach the QB?

    He’s explained over the years how die-roll/win-chance works in triggering animations and outcomes multiple times.
    If you truly want to know about this, then he information is out there.
    khaliib
    He’s explained over the years how die-roll/win-chance works in triggering animations and outcomes multiple times.
    If you truly want to know about this, then he information is out there.
    I understand that, but this is slightly different. I was just wondering if he made any statements regarding the X-factor abilities effect on opposing/other players. Like, do the abilities only "boost" the X-factor player's ratings/procedural awareness, or does it reduce those things for the opposing players simultaneously? I personally don't want it to affect anyone other than the player with the ability, but I'm not sure if that's a realistic request at this time. Thanks.
    canes21
    Why would that not matter? The traits should make that player better, not make the other players artificially worse.

    But it is still all dice rolls that dictate whether a player makes a play or not. The play you called factors in, along with defensive adjustments. And the ratings of the other players also will affect his ability to make a play or fail.
    If a superstar trait takes over for an offensive player, yeah, it will likely trigger a fail animation of any defensive player trying to stop him.
    Ratings have to matter, and that means the game will have to animate failures to make a play.
    It might seem awkward, and I do feel bad for gamers that can’t see a play and make the connection that even if the fail animation seems off, it was still the result of the simulated dice roll of all the players involved in a play. If you consistently lose those match-ups, it’s due to the other team having better, or better matched up players, at the point of attack.
    Every single movement is at the mercy of dice rolls, maybe he goes the wrong way, runs the wrong route, blocks the wrong guy. It may look weird, but it simulates the % of times a player fails to execute, and opponent ratings are taken into effect.
    If I am overmatched, in addition to not making plays, I will be stressed, and I will make dumb unforced errors.
    I think you are missing the point. All we want these traits to do is make the players with those traits to play better. It should not make the opposing players play worse. If a RB has a trait that made him have elite breakaway speed would you be okay with that trait representing that by making all defenders go down 5 rating points in speed once he was at least 7 yards past the LOS? I know I wouldn't one bit.
    canes21
    I think you are missing the point. All we want these traits to do is make the players with those traits to play better. It should not make the opposing players play worse. If a RB has a trait that made him have elite breakaway speed would you be okay with that trait representing that by making all defenders go down 5 rating points in speed once he was at least 7 yards past the LOS? I know I wouldn't one bit.

    Does that really matter? If a bonus is given of 2 seconds, does it really matter if the bonus gives someone a 2-second headstart or the other a 2-second delay?
    4thQtrStre5S
    Does that really matter? If a bonus is given of 2 seconds, does it really matter if the bonus gives someone a 2-second headstart or the other a 2-second delay?

    It does matter. Let's go back to my RB example. In real life that RB would be known for his breakaway speed. He has that speed because of his excellent 2nd gear, not because he makes the defenders run slower than they are capable of.
    If QB abilities are causing DB's to play dumber than they are to make the plays work and reward the QB with the ability then it will be jarring and I'll be editing the abilities out as soon as I can.
    If Wes Welker's slot ability gets him open because it makes the LB's behave strange maybe with a stuck in mud animation or because they hitch or do something else glitchy then I can't imagine many people are going to be fans of the abilities.
    It absolutely matters how EA implements this. I find it hard to believe that users here would want player differentiation so bad they'd be willing to deal with an implementation where the game basically cheats for the player with abilities to make it work and to make them stronger. If the abilities literally made players better in certain circumstances by just upping their chances of success in organic matters then it'd be awesome. If a WR with a jumpball ability is able to box out and high point balls better than the rest more consistently then that is fine. If his ability just causes the DB to have their speed, jumping, catching, and awareness ratings to lower so that the WR gets an advantage that way then it's implemented poorly and will never feel or look organic.
    canes21
    It does matter. Let's go back to my RB example. In real life that RB would be known for his breakaway speed. He has that speed because of his excellent 2nd gear, not because he makes the defenders run slower than they are capable of.
    If QB abilities are causing DB's to play dumber than they are to make the plays work and reward the QB with the ability then it will be jarring and I'll be editing the abilities out as soon as I can.
    If Wes Welker's slot ability gets him open because it makes the LB's behave strange maybe with a stuck in mud animation or because they hitch or do something else glitchy then I can't imagine many people are going to be fans of the abilities.
    It absolutely matters how EA implements this. I find it hard to believe that users here would want player differentiation so bad they'd be willing to deal with an implementation where the game basically cheats for the player with abilities to make it work and to make them stronger. If the abilities literally made players better in certain circumstances by just upping their chances of success in organic matters then it'd be awesome. If a WR with a jumpball ability is able to box out and high point balls better than the rest more consistently then that is fine. If his ability just causes the DB to have their speed, jumping, catching, and awareness ratings to lower so that the WR gets an advantage that way then it's implemented poorly and will never feel or look organic.

    I understand what you're saying here. I actually believe EA/Tib has been doing the very thing you're describing for years if not decades now. Allowing certain rating levels, or traits to affect not just the player themselves, but others around them.
    I believe Aaron Rodgers ratings, for example, already affect how well the OL blocks. And some stuff does look wonky as you have mentioned it would.
    The issue of wonky animations is probably best remedied by adding additional animations.
    To go back to Aaron Rodgers - if in fact, the OL does block better for an Aaron Rodgers and we took that away; how would we make Aaron Rodgers look as great as his ratings in the pocket as a user is controlling him?
    Let's say Aaron Rodgers throws to a 3rd string receiver. The defender is faster with a higher M2M or zone, so is on top of the receiver, but here is Aaron Rodgers, Hall of Famer, throwing the ball and Rodgers wins the dice roll, who should be affected, the receiver or the defensive back so the result is a win for Rodgers? (win being a completion)
    4thQtrStre5S
    I understand what you're saying here. I actually believe EA/Tib has been doing the very thing you're describing for years if not decades now. Allowing certain rating levels, or traits to affect not just the player themselves, but others around them.
    I believe Aaron Rodgers ratings, for example, already affect how well the OL blocks. And some stuff does look wonky as you have mentioned it would.
    The issue of wonky animations is probably best remedied by adding additional animations.
    To go back to Aaron Rodgers - if in fact, the OL does block better for an Aaron Rodgers and we took that away; how would we make Aaron Rodgers look as great as his ratings in the pocket as a user is controlling him?
    Let's say Aaron Rodgers throws to a 3rd string receiver. The defender is faster with a higher M2M or zone, so is on top of the receiver, but here is Aaron Rodgers, Hall of Famer, throwing the ball and Rodgers wins the dice roll, who should be affected, the receiver or the defensive back so the result is a win for Rodgers? (win being a completion)

    It's funny you bring up the OL blocking better for a QB since Tom Brady actually has that ability this year and I think that is an absolutely terrible idea.
    To make Aaron Rodgers play like the hall of fame QB he is would be to have him be accurate like he is, especially on the deep ball. To have him have escapability in the pocket like he does. To allow him to throw on the run with accuracy like he can. To have him have that quick release that just flings the ball out with speed like he can.
    If the user wants to throw to a covered 3rd string WR like in your example then that is their fault. The game should not make that pass become a completion just because Rodgers threw it. It should still be up to the user to find the open man and pass it to them on time. If they are late or throw it into coverage they should be punished.
    canes21
    It's funny you bring up the OL blocking better for a QB since Tom Brady actually has that ability this year and I think that is an absolutely terrible idea.
    To make Aaron Rodgers play like the hall of fame QB he is would be to have him be accurate like he is, especially on the deep ball. To have him have escapability in the pocket like he does. To allow him to throw on the run with accuracy like he can. To have him have that quick release that just flings the ball out with speed like he can.
    If the user wants to throw to a covered 3rd string WR like in your example then that is their fault. The game should not make that pass become a completion just because Rodgers threw it. It should still be up to the user to find the open man and pass it to them on time. If they are late or throw it into coverage they should be punished.

    So if a QB like Aaron Rodgers cannot complete passes to a receiver who isn't wide open, or isn't 1st string, why should anyone use him? Why am I going to spare salary cap space if Rodgers gives me nothing over anyone else, while at the same time having other QBs represented fairly in a game where speed is king? If Rodgers is 70 speed and Mariota is 83 speed and they both require wide open receivers, why take Rodgers?
    These questions have to be answered while keeping in mind the abilities and expectations of teh consumer.
    Brady needs the assistance because the players in MUT have determined that he is useless because EA use his realistic speed in his ratings. SO they had to find a way to represent how great Brady is, while also being usable in all modes of the game while maintaining his likeness as best as possible.
    You would take Rodgers because he can throw the ball accurately thus making it to where you can hit guys in tighter windows so you would not need them to be wide open. If you are throwing to a guy that is covered then he is covered. Maybe Rodgers is better at throwing it to where only his WR can catch it, but that is it. The DB should not have perform worse than his ratings simply because Rodgers threw the ball. What would make you want to sign Rodgers over Mariota is the fact that he can throw the ball more accurately at all 3 depths. If your WR corp is weak like you are alluding to in your post then it would be more beneficial to use Rodgers because those guys would never be getting tons of space so you'd want a guy that can place the ball better. Signing Mariota would potentially be leading to more balls that are off target resulting in more turnovers, more plays where your WR has no chance to get the ball at all, more balls that are tipped, etc. Rodgers would be putting the ball in better locations that have less potential to be anything more than either caught or dropped/knocked down.
    If a throw is made into a 1v1 battle that is very contested then the WR's ratings should be what dictates the catch along with the placement of the ball. If Mariota is throwing it you have higher chances of the ball being poorly placed so there will be more of a chance there will be times the throw goes into the right spot where the DB has the positioning to allow them a better chance of coming down with the ball. With Rodgers the throws will be more accurate so more often than not the throw will be made to where the WR can get his hands on it, but will have to hold on through contact. That is where the WR and DB ratings come into play and Rodger's don't one bit. Once the ball is thrown and the placement is clear then it should really come down to who has the better positioning and the ratings of each player from that point should dictate how it plays out. The QB's ratings should not matter anymore once the ball has left their hand.
    canes21
    You would take Rodgers because he can throw the ball accurately thus making it to where you can hit guys in tighter windows so you would not need them to be wide open. If you are throwing to a guy that is covered then he is covered. Maybe Rodgers is better at throwing it to where only his WR can catch it, but that is it. The DB should not have perform worse than his ratings simply because Rodgers threw the ball. What would make you want to sign Rodgers over Mariota is the fact that he can throw the ball more accurately at all 3 depths. If your WR corp is weak like you are alluding to in your post then it would be more beneficial to use Rodgers because those guys would never be getting tons of space so you'd want a guy that can place the ball better. Signing Mariota would potentially be leading to more balls that are off target resulting in more turnovers, more plays where your WR has no chance to get the ball at all, more balls that are tipped, etc. Rodgers would be putting the ball in better locations that have less potential to be anything more than either caught or dropped/knocked down.
    If a throw is made into a 1v1 battle that is very contested then the WR's ratings should be what dictates the catch along with the placement of the ball. If Mariota is throwing it you have higher chances of the ball being poorly placed so there will be more of a chance there will be times the throw goes into the right spot where the DB has the positioning to allow them a better chance of coming down with the ball. With Rodgers the throws will be more accurate so more often than not the throw will be made to where the WR can get his hands on it, but will have to hold on through contact. That is where the WR and DB ratings come into play and Rodger's don't one bit. Once the ball is thrown and the placement is clear then it should really come down to who has the better positioning and the ratings of each player from that point should dictate how it plays out. The QB's ratings should not matter anymore once the ball has left their hand.

    Okay, so Rodgers throws the ball, and his ratings no longer matter. The ball is on target as far as the ratings determine. Prior to Rodgers throwing the ball, the DB was winning the rating war, but once the ball is released, the WR wins the rating war to make the catch, how should the catch win be represented to the viewer? Does the ball warp through the defender? Maybe the defender stumbles? Basically, an animation has to be played out, yes?
    So we can say that, in the end, when wonky things happen in a video game, like madden, a lack of animation sequences can be to blame?
    I am not sure just how accuracy would work, in and of itself. How inaccurate should Mariota be compared to Rodgers so that they are represented in game fairly to their real-life counterparts?
    4thQtrStre5S
    Okay, so Rodgers throws the ball, and his ratings no longer matter. The ball is on target as far as the ratings determine. Prior to Rodgers throwing the ball, the DB was winning the rating war, but once the ball is released, the WR wins the rating war to make the catch, how should the catch win be represented to the viewer? Does the ball warp through the defender? Maybe the defender stumbles? Basically, an animation has to be played out, yes?
    So we can say that, in the end, when wonky things happen in a video game, like madden, a lack of animation sequences can be to blame?
    I am not sure just how accuracy would work, in and of itself. How inaccurate should Mariota be compared to Rodgers so that they are represented in game fairly to their real-life counterparts?

    If the DB has the position to win the battle then there would be animations to show him using proper leverage and fundamentals to keep the pass from being completed. If the WR had the position advantage, but it still rolled a loss for the WR then there would be animations that played out for the DB either getting a hand on the ball at the last minute to tip it away, animations for them to knock/tear the ball out, animations for the WR to drop the ball, etc. All of that stuff is already in the game.
    If your whole point is at times there will be issues with animations or the ball warping around or through people then that will likely always exist in games. That doesn't really fit into what we are talking about, though.
    To answer your question about how accurate they should be, look at actual QB charts. PFF does a great job of putting together yearly reviews on QB's that chart exactly where their passes were going in each circumstance. Wide open plays the QB's usually hit the guys in the chest area with some slight variance. Contested guys where the throw was forced low they had a range of where the ball would land with the middle being the intended area aka the most accurate throw and the further from the center you got the more inaccurate the throw was labeled. The mechanic in the game would determine where the throw was supposed to be and look at the ratings and determine the area at which the ball could actually end up. Rodgers would have a smaller circle behind the scenes so his throws would seemingly be more accurate. Mariota would have a wider circle. He'd still hit some right on the money, but his inaccurate throws could be more wild relatively speaking.
    4thQtrStre5S
    Does that really matter? If a bonus is given of 2 seconds, does it really matter if the bonus gives someone a 2-second headstart or the other a 2-second delay?
    Both are bad and don't represent football.
    canes21
    If the DB has the position to win the battle then there would be animations to show him using proper leverage and fundamentals to keep the pass from being completed. If the WR had the position advantage, but it still rolled a loss for the WR then there would be animations that played out for the DB either getting a hand on the ball at the last minute to tip it away, animations for them to knock/tear the ball out, animations for the WR to drop the ball, etc. All of that stuff is already in the game.
    If your whole point is at times there will be issues with animations or the ball warping around or through people then that will likely always exist in games. That doesn't really fit into what we are talking about, though.
    To answer your question about how accurate they should be, look at actual QB charts. PFF does a great job of putting together yearly reviews on QB's that chart exactly where their passes were going in each circumstance. Wide open plays the QB's usually hit the guys in the chest area with some slight variance. Contested guys where the throw was forced low they had a range of where the ball would land with the middle being the intended area aka the most accurate throw and the further from the center you got the more inaccurate the throw was labeled. The mechanic in the game would determine where the throw was supposed to be and look at the ratings and determine the area at which the ball could actually end up. Rodgers would have a smaller circle behind the scenes so his throws would seemingly be more accurate. Mariota would have a wider circle. He'd still hit some right on the money, but his inaccurate throws could be more wild relatively speaking.

    My position was merely that a -2 delay to a player or a +2 advantage to a player really makes no difference. The animations have to be in place to play out the results. It would appear that we agree that the animations need to be present and able to play out the results on the field. Thus wonkiness on the field is not associated with how ratings are manipulated.
    I have also taken the position that a single player's ratings, such as Rodgers, should affect player ratings around him to assist in representing him properly in the game to his real-life counterpart.
    Playing with a higher caliber player should make others look better or play better, at times, as in a positive for teammates or negative for opponents. On the other hand, it could make one great player look less effective. If an Offensive lineman has to manage his assignment, but also keep an eye on the rookie next to him, that would be one player affecting the ratings of another negatively.
    4thQtrStre5S
    what would represent football in a video game?

    Real little men playing inside our TVs. Guys like Chuck Bednarik in AFB2K8.
    By contrast, Chuck Bednarik said yes. But only after the game maker cleared a few things up for the man who nearly ended Frank Gifford's career.
    "We were on the phone, and I actually had to explain that he would not physically be in the television set," recalls Sandra Tabata, who works at IMG World, the agency 2K Sports used to locate former players. "The younger guys are familiar with it, but some of the older guys, they didn't even know what video game technology was."
    IMG World account director Marc Reeves concurs.
    "The guys who are in their 60s and 70s were under the impression that the game was going to represent what they can do today," Reeves says. "They thought they would have to go run the 40- for us."

    After that article, one of the guys in our online league posted this:
    4thQtrStre5S
    what would represent football in a video game?

    Is this a serious question?
    Why have a football in a football video game?
    Why have a football field in a football video game?
    Why have any on field AI at all in a football video game?
    Having realistic things play out in a football video game would represent football in a video game. Exactly what those other two were describing.
    bucky60
    Is this a serious question?
    Why have a football in a football video game?
    Why have a football field in a football video game?
    Why have any on field AI at all in a football video game?
    Having realistic things play out in a football video game would represent football in a video game. Exactly what those other two were describing.

    It is a serious question which I was asking of another on this thread. My position is there is more than one way to replicate the game of football in a video game. But apparently to some, there is only one way. The latter seems rather limiting and too rigid.
    I would say "realistic" is a poor term, and would rather use, "convincing" or "believable."
    Has anyone here seen the movie - "This is Spinal Tap"? If so, you probably are well aware of the scene with Nigel and the amps which go to 11. Well, if you have a JuJu at his full ratings, but then you need to show him at one of those moments where he defies gravity, etc. then you need something in the game which replicates his ability to make the great move or catch, he needs the ability to go to 11.
    Bring in x-factors. This adds in that top level which the standout players have that truly make them top tier in a league filled with the greatest athletes in their sport.
    but at the same time, 11 is a relative point. Eleven can be achieved by moving a rating up, or pushing other ratings down. It is about the differentiation between numbers, not the numbers. We have a madden scale of ratings from 1-100, or 70-100 depending on how you want to look at it. We have a player at 97, how much better can he get? Well, we could boost him to 100, and/or lower some players around him. This in effect expands the rating scale, giving more flexibility and room to replicate action on the field that is seen in the NFL.
    4thQtrStre5S
    It is a serious question which I was asking of another on this thread. My position is there is more than one way to replicate the game of football in a video game. But apparently to some, there is only one way. The latter seems rather limiting and too rigid.
    I would say "realistic" is a poor term, and would rather use, "convincing" or "believable."

    Realistic is not a poor term. And I agree that unrealistic is far less limiting than realistic. Unrealistic would allow for shoving rockets up players bums for a speed boost. I guess that would be another way to replicate a speed increase.
    Those other two are right about the correct way to implement those xfactor traits.
    Reducing a players speed by 2 points because of another players xfactor is neither convincing or believable.
    bucky60
    Realistic is not a poor term. And I agree that unrealistic is far less limiting than realistic. Unrealistic would allow for shoving rockets up players bums for a speed boost. I guess that would be another way to replicate a speed increase.
    Those other two are right about the correct way to implement those xfactor traits.

    Okay then, thank you for your opinion..I will consider our discussion closed.
    I absolutely love the downright Orwellian use of "realism" in these discussions. TIL players always running at a constant speed is "realistic". No one plays to their peak potential at all times.
    stinkubus
    I absolutely love the downright Orwellian use of "realism" in these discussions. TIL players always running at a constant speed is "realistic". No one plays to their peak potential at all times.

    Exactly how I see the situation.
    stinkubus
    I absolutely love the downright Orwellian use of "realism" in these discussions. TIL players always running at a constant speed is "realistic". No one plays to their peak potential at all times.

    A person not always playing up to their potential is far different than reducing someones ratings just because of somebody else's xfactor boost. One should have absolutely NOTHING to do with the other. That's the whole jest of the discussion. Those other two guys are completely right about this. If you want an "un-orwellian realism".
    bucky60
    A person not always playing up to their potential is far different than reducing someones ratings just because of somebody else's xfactor boost. One should have absolutely NOTHING to do with the other. That's the whole jest of the discussion. Those other two guys are completely right about this. If you want an "un-orwellian realism".

    So a crafty DB who can block a receiver's path and make contact beyond 5 yards without drawing a flag couldn't possibly get a receiver to run slower than top speed on a vertical route?
    4thQtrStre5S
    Has anyone here seen the movie - "This is Spinal Tap"? If so, you probably are well aware of the scene with Nigel and the amps which go to 11. Well, if you have a JuJu at his full ratings, but then you need to show him at one of those moments where he defies gravity, etc. then you need something in the game which replicates his ability to make the great move or catch, he needs the ability to go to 11.
    Bring in x-factors. This adds in that top level which the standout players have that truly make them top tier in a league filled with the greatest athletes in their sport.
    but at the same time, 11 is a relative point. Eleven can be achieved by moving a rating up, or pushing other ratings down. It is about the differentiation between numbers, not the numbers. We have a madden scale of ratings from 1-100, or 70-100 depending on how you want to look at it. We have a player at 97, how much better can he get? Well, we could boost him to 100, and/or lower some players around him. This in effect expands the rating scale, giving more flexibility and room to replicate action on the field that is seen in the NFL.

    You just said the problem yourself. They use a 70-99 instead of 0-99 so they don't hurt anyone's feelings. Sure just make the players go over 100 but that's not necessary. Just actually use the scale you already have.
    stinkubus
    So a crafty DB who can block a receiver's path and make contact beyond 5 yards without drawing a flag couldn't possibly get a receiver to run slower than top speed on a vertical route?

    I would love if there was an actual mechanic to simulate this. In REAL football that would be the way to "slow down" a receiver. It's not the fact that the CB in front of him is playing good so for whatever reason his legs move slower.
    The mechanics we've been discussing WILL simulate that scenario. You just get hung up on the fact that it's implemented as a malus to the receiver rather than a buff to the defender for some reason.
    stinkubus
    So a crafty DB who can block a receiver's path and make contact beyond 5 yards without drawing a flag couldn't possibly get a receiver to run slower than top speed on a vertical route?

    So when this xfactor kicks in it causes your example to happen on every play? Their are far better ways to replicate what you describe than a reduction in WR speed "just because of some DB xfactor".
    stinkubus
    The mechanics we've been discussing WILL simulate that scenario. You just get hung up on the fact that it's implemented as a malus to the receiver rather than a buff to the defender for some reason.

    How is it this hard for you to understand?
    I'm going to put it this way. Me and you are racing a 40 yard dash. Let's say you run a 4.7 and I run a 4.8. You are faster so you beat me. Now we want to race again. I work my *** of and now I run a 4.6. You are in the same shape you run a 4.7. I was faster this time so I win. Sure we could of just made you slower and run a 4.8 would of been the same but is that how it really works? Me working to get better only made me faster it didn't make you slower for whatever reason
    We already know that X-factor abilities will not be turned on every play. Why would you say such a thing unless you are attempting to be deliberately misleading?
    The Green Bay Packers had a RB by the name of Edgar Bennett. He was a solid RB but nothing Hall of Fame about him. When it came to a muddy field he was very very good. His running technique, his foot planting, etc. made him great in mud conditions. As an X-factor, he would have a "mudder" skill. I even believe there are racehorses that do better in mud, or do other horses just do worse, but that is another story.
    So, is Edgar Bennet running better in mud or is he running the same, but his techniques just shine in mud, and the other players are performing below their top ratings in the mud?
    In this case, which can be applied any place, whether increasing Edgar's run skills, or dropping opponents relative skills, the end result would still be the same, Edgar looks better runnning in the mud.
    Viking11
    How is it this hard for you to understand?
    I'm going to put it this way. Me and you are racing a 40 yard dash. Let's say you run a 4.7 and I run a 4.8. You are faster so you beat me. Now we want to race again. I work my *** of and now I run a 4.6. You are in the same shape you run a 4.7. I was faster this time so I win. Sure we could of just made you slower and run a 4.8 would of been the same but is that how it really works? Me working to get better only made me faster it didn't make you slower for whatever reason

    Your point is understood; it's just moot. The result of the play is the same in either instance so there's literally no reason to care other than reflexively disliking EA and Madden.
    4thQtrStre5S
    The Green Bay Packers had a RB by the name of Edgar Bennett. He was a solid RB but nothing Hall of Fame about him. When it came to a muddy field he was very very good. His running technique, his foot planting, etc. made him great in mud conditions. As an X-factor, he would have a "mudder" skill. I even believe there are racehorses that do better in mud, or do other horses just do worse, but that is another story.
    So, is Edgar Bennet running better in mud or is he running the same, but his techniques just shine in mud, and the other players are performing below their top ratings in the mud?
    In this case, which can be applied any place, whether increasing Edgar's run skills, or dropping opponents relative skills, the end result would still be the same, Edgar looks better runnning in the mud.

    It would depend. Does he and these horses actually run better in the mud or is it that that are better at running in the mud compared to other players and horses. If they have better times in the mud then there ratings would go up. If they are just better at running in the mud in comparison then they would receive less or no reduction because of the mud.
    stinkubus
    Your point is understood; it's just moot. The result of the play is the same in either instance so there's literally no reason to care other than reflexively disliking EA and Madden.

    It actually does make a difference. If every time a player got the ball they just fell down and the defender came and touched them while laying on the ground they would still get the tackle and the results of the play would be the same but I wouldn't call that tackling. Making defenders worse is a way to simulate something sure but is it the most true to life no.
    Is there any other sports game that you play that does things in the same manner? In 2k the players have there abilities from the get go and they only affect the player. On the defensive badges they don't make the other player worse they just counter his boosts. In MLB players can get boosts for playing at home or during a day game but that doesn't make the other teams outfielders slower or worse fielders.
    It's very simple. We will take the WR and DB example. If you want to simulate a DB that is a good jostler that can keep WRs in check then we want to see it animate properly. Put in a jostling system that actively shows what is happening and allows that elite DB to separate himself from other DBs that can't jostle well and allow WRs by them more often.
    If the only way you simulated this DB being good at what he does is by making WRs lose 5 speed on routes deeper than 5 yards then I want no part of the system. That's not representative of what we see on Sundays. Implementing an actual jostling system that isn't always a guaranteed win for that DB represents the sport much more accurately than him having a trait that makes WRs slower every single snap.
    If they animation library were large and diverse enough you wouldn't be able to tell from the on-field results if the outcome were determined by buffing the receiver or gimping the defender.
    stinkubus
    We already know that X-factor abilities will not be turned on every play. Why would you say such a thing unless you are attempting to be deliberately misleading?

    I'm talking about for every play that it is turned on.
    Is it these xfactors or the zone stuff that gets turned on for meeting in game statistical goal.
    What is your point? We are asking for mechanics to be put in for all of the things we are discussing here. Obviously if a mechanic is being built for a jostling system then animations are going to be created for it. If they put in animations that allow him to keep his hands on the WR and slow him down then it is fine. That's what we are asking for. If the dice roll goes the DBs favor and allows him to get positioning and good technique and the WR doesn't reach top speed that play that is cool. If a dice roll goes against the DB and the WR is able to beat the DBs technique and get past him and up to speed then that is good.
    If they don't have these mechanics and animations and the only way to represent this happening is to have the losing player run in mud or to have the winning player glide up field then I'd prefer the game to be the way it is now over the unrealistic implementation.
    4thQtrStre5S
    The Green Bay Packers had a RB by the name of Edgar Bennett. He was a solid RB but nothing Hall of Fame about him. When it came to a muddy field he was very very good. His running technique, his foot planting, etc. made him great in mud conditions. As an X-factor, he would have a "mudder" skill. I even believe there are racehorses that do better in mud, or do other horses just do worse, but that is another story.
    So, is Edgar Bennet running better in mud or is he running the same, but his techniques just shine in mud, and the other players are performing below their top ratings in the mud?
    In this case, which can be applied any place, whether increasing Edgar's run skills, or dropping opponents relative skills, the end result would still be the same, Edgar looks better runnning in the mud.

    I'm very familiar with Edgar Bennet. His style of running made him better in bad field conditions. His style didn't make others worse in those same conditions. His mudder trait shouldn't effect anybody else. The others lack of mudder trait should effect them, not his trait. If Bennett didn't have the mudder trait, they ALL should be effected by the conditions. Not just because he has a mudder trait.
    No the result would not be the same.
    stinkubus
    Your point is understood; it's just moot. The result of the play is the same in either instance so there's literally no reason to care other than reflexively disliking EA and Madden.

    The point is not moot, the result is not the same. There is literally no reason to argue against it other than to reflexively defend EA and Madden.:smile:
    bucky60
    I'm very familiar with Edgar Bennet. His style of running made him better in bad field conditions. His style didn't make others worse in those same conditions. His mudder trait shouldn't effect anybody else. The others lack of mudder trait should effect them, not his trait. If Bennett didn't have the mudder trait, they ALL should be effected by the conditions. Not just because he has a mudder trait.
    No the result would not be the same.

    The result of my example is the same. It can be achieved by either increasing Edgar's abilities in mud, or reducing other player ratings in mud.
    The main requirement is the animations to make any action visually acceptable to the viewer.
    IF negatives and positives (boosts) are used, we have at least doubled the possible outcomes of any given situation. And animations would just be required to show the viewer the result on the screen whether the WR was awarded a boost or the defender was penalized for a misstep or other fail.
    Ratings remaining constant would be the unrealistic part.
    4thQtrStre5S
    The result of my example is the same. It can be achieved by either increasing Edgar's abilities in mud, or reducing other player ratings in mud.
    The main requirement is the animations to make any action visually acceptable to the viewer.

    If Edgar runs a 4.5 on clean grass but runs a 4.57 in mud then he is not running better in the mud. It may just be that the other players are affected much more than him. If you boost his rating in the mud then all of a sudden he is running a 4.43 in the mud when in reality everyone should be moving slower. I guess you could say the results are the same but it's actually kind of the opposite of real life.
    No body runs the 40 in mud, and no one ever will. Simulating such a thing would necessarily require a ton of guesswork. There's no objectively correct answer because no one is ever going to set up the tests necessary to do it.
    4thQtrStre5S
    The result of my example is the same. It can be achieved by either increasing Edgar's abilities in mud, or reducing other player ratings in mud.
    The main requirement is the animations to make any action visually acceptable to the viewer.
    IF negatives and positives (boosts) are used, we have at least doubled the possible outcomes of any given situation. And animations would just be required to show the viewer the result on the screen whether the WR was awarded a boost or the defender was penalized for a misstep or other fail.
    Ratings remaining constant would be the unrealistic part.

    The implementations and outcomes are not the same. Edgar Bennett is in the game. That causes the entire defense to be worse. Somebody else besides Bennett has the ball, the entire defense is still worse? And only when Bennett is in the game. When he's not in the game, the defense is all of a sudden better, in the same weather and field conditions?
    Just make the implementation realistic and you don't have to worry about this other stuff.
    stinkubus
    No body runs the 40 in mud, and no one ever will. Simulating such a thing would necessarily require a ton of guesswork. There's no objectively correct answer because no one is ever going to set up the tests necessary to do it.

    No more guesswork than these zone abilities and xfactors create.
    stinkubus
    No body runs the 40 in mud, and no one ever will. Simulating such a thing would necessarily require a ton of guesswork. There's no objectively correct answer because no one is ever going to set up the tests necessary to do it.

    Your buddy mentioned race horses. Do these horses run faster or slower in the mud? My guess would be slower so we can say with some confindence that football players would probably be slower from running in the mud. Why would we make a guy faster in the mud if everyone is actaully slower in real life? Speaking of guess work why does it take mahomes 3 passes of 40 yards to for his arm to gain the super strenght. Sound life some guess work or something. Maybe it only takes him 1 pass of 20+ or maybe 8 passes while no looking lol
    bucky60
    The implementations and outcomes are not the same. Edgar Bennett is in the game. That causes the entire defense to be worse. Somebody else besides Bennett has the ball, the entire defense is still worse? And only when Bennett is in the game. When he's not in the game, the defense is all of a sudden better, in the same weather and field conditions?
    Just make the implementation realistic and you don't have to worry about this other stuff.

    NO. Edgar is not better or worse; he could actually stay the same in the mud because we could say his base running technique, being north/south and sure footed lends itself to mud. The defensive players, of those who perform worse in mud would perform worse. If another RB enters the game, they are better or worse based on their ability in the mud.
    It is all about being "realistic" as you put it. There is no constant in sports. No athlete runs the exact same speed on every play. Thus ratings, if we are being "realistic" would fluctuate on any given play, and they could be increased or decreased. In fact, it would be more realistic to see decreases in speed than to give a boost to speed.
    But as my position states, we can achieve the same results on any given play whether we raise or lower any given rating to produce an appropriate outcome. Remember, what we see as a viewer is just the outcome, the numbers have already been crunched.
    Thus, we can have an x-factor event either raise ratings or lower certain ratings and get the same result. IF a spectacular catch is triggered through an x-factor on a player with a 90 spec catch rating, and the increase is 20 points, then 10 could be added to the WR and 10 subtracted from the nearest defender's appropriate rating, to get the same overall effect of a 20 point rating differential.
    This is just going to go in circles. With the mud example we would only want to see it implemented this way - say EA has all players losing 4 points of speed in the mud, the RB would have an ability that made it to where he lost maybe just 2 points of speed. That implementation makes it to where only that RB is affected by the ability. We don't want an implementation to where whenever the Rb is on the field all players lose even more speed. While it may represent in a sense that he is better in the mud than them, it is not an implementation that we view as realistic. In your eyes it gets the desired result of him being better in the mud so you are fine with it. We are not fine with it because it doesn't represent the sport well enough for us.
    I don't want a CB with an ability that represents him being a shutdown corner and the game decides he is going to stop the pass on a play so it warps him through the offensive player to get the swat. Sure, the end result may be what was desired, but the way it was achieved would be absolutely terrible to see.
    4thQtrStre5S
    NO. Edgar is not better or worse; he could actually stay the same in the mud because we could say his base running technique, being north/south and sure footed lends itself to mud. The defensive players, of those who perform worse in mud would perform worse. If another RB enters the game, they are better or worse based on their ability in the mud.
    It is all about being "realistic" as you put it. There is no constant in sports. No athlete runs the exact same speed on every play. Thus ratings, if we are being "realistic" would fluctuate on any given play, and they could be increased or decreased. In fact, it would be more realistic to see decreases in speed than to give a boost to speed.
    But as my position states, we can achieve the same results on any given play whether we raise or lower any given rating to produce an appropriate outcome. Remember, what we see as a viewer is just the outcome, the numbers have already been crunched.
    Thus, we can have an x-factor event either raise ratings or lower certain ratings and get the same result. IF a spectacular catch is triggered through an x-factor on a player with a 90 spec catch rating, and the increase is 20 points, then 10 could be added to the WR and 10 subtracted from the nearest defender's appropriate rating, to get the same overall effect of a 20 point rating differential.

    The defenders are not worse in mud because of Edgar's abilities is the point. It is the mud that has the affect on the players. Edgar's running style leaves him unaffected by the mud.
    You are correct about not being constant every play. Sounds like a great thing to be implemented if realism is what they are trying to get.
    I understand your results based approach but there is no need to lower the defenders raitings. If they make 99 an absolute best rating possible and rate the players accordingly they would be able to keep these superstar abilities within the rating scale. Which would make things play out much closer to real life physics instead of artificially manipulating to get the results you are looking for.
    Viking11
    You just said the problem yourself. They use a 70-99 instead of 0-99 so they don't hurt anyone's feelings. Sure just make the players go over 100 but that's not necessary. Just actually use the scale you already have.

    The lowest OVR in Madden 19 is 36. But, hey, let's hear more about what you think of a game you don't play.
    JayhawkerStL
    The lowest OVR in Madden 19 is 36. But, hey, let's hear more about what you think of a game you don't play.

    You're really on a run right now. If people are criticizing Madden they must hate it, EA, and don't actually play the game. I guess you think I don't play Madden either since I criticize it so heavily?
    canes21
    You're really on a run right now. If people are criticizing Madden they must hate it, EA, and don't actually play the game. I guess you think I don't play Madden either since I criticize it so heavily?

    Maybe your reading comprehension is off.
    He said the ratings spread is 70-99. that wasn't remotely true. If he played the game, he would have known that. It's not that he hates the game, which ought to be enough to not play it, but that he is spreading FUD.
    4thQtrStre5S

    But as my position states, we can achieve the same results on any given play whether we raise or lower any given rating to produce an appropriate outcome. Remember, what we see as a viewer is just the outcome, the numbers have already been crunched.
    Thus, we can have an x-factor event either raise ratings or lower certain ratings and get the same result. IF a spectacular catch is triggered through an x-factor on a player with a 90 spec catch rating, and the increase is 20 points, then 10 could be added to the WR and 10 subtracted from the nearest defender's appropriate rating, to get the same overall effect of a 20 point rating differential.

    But your implementation will lead to some unrealistic results. Many have made cases where it would. Our position is just implement things in a realistic way and you remove the cases where things would be unrealistic.
    If weather is what effects players on the field, then have "WEATHER" be what effects players on the field. If a player has the mudder zone or zfactor trait, then have them be effected much less by the weather.
    Your implementation leads to unintended problems. This is the reason I have problems with almost all of EA/Tibs design implementation decisions.
    JayhawkerStL
    The lowest OVR in Madden 19 is 36. But, hey, let's hear more about what you think of a game you don't play.

    I was actually just using the same number as the person I was quoting. Even he knows the players have fell between that range. You know what's funny about all the 36 overall players in the game? They are long snappers and there position isn't even in the game. Basically a worthless player in game who is a real life starter.
    Now EA is trying to fix this by changing the rating for madden 20. I will wait and see but I have no faith it's been done correctly
    Viking11
    I was actually just using the same number as the person I was quoting. Even he knows the players have fell between that range. You know what's funny about all the 36 overall players in the game? They are long snappers and there position isn't even in the game. Basically a worthless player in game who is a real life starter.
    Now EA is trying to fix this by changing the rating for madden 20. I will wait and see but I have no faith it's been done correctly

    I scrolled out of the TE's that I assume are the long snappers, as almost all of the 30-55 rated guys were TE's with a few C's tossed in.
    If EAs ratings spread was so good the past few years can you explain why they are running out a new ratings spread as a feature for madden 20? It's not hard to see that the majority of players ratings are too heavy. There has been too many 99 overall players because that's what's cool. A 99 should represent the best possible. If we give someone in the game 99 elusiveness or 99 speed how can we ever realistically represent players that were or will be faster or more elusive. Makes for less differential between players witch is what ea has said they are trying to fix
    JayhawkerStL
    I scrolled out of the TE's that I assume are the long snappers, as almost all of the 30-55 rated guys were TE's with a few C's tossed in.

    Long snappers in Madden have historically been useless. Green Bays long snapper in madden is always assigned to some other position and is basically useless at that position.
    In real life, the packer long snapper is never used at any position besides long snapper.
    The long snapper is the first guy that gets cut in a from the original roster in a Madden franchise. Then you use some other player to assign in the Long Snapper depth chart.
    I don't know about the exact overalls of those Long Snappers in the original rosters, but the guy is right about them being completely useless.
    I don't even think the original long snappers are rated very good in the long snapper depth chart. It's pretty much a joke.
    Viking11
    If EAs ratings spread was so good the past few years can you explain why they are running out a new ratings spread as a feature for madden 20? It's not hard to see that the majority of players ratings are too heavy. There has been too many 99 overall players because that's what's cool. A 99 should represent the best possible. If we give someone in the game 99 elusiveness or 99 speed how can we ever realistically represent players that were or will be faster or more elusive. Makes for less differential between players witch is what ea has said they are trying to fix

    When did I say there were good?
    JayhawkerStL
    When did I say there were good?

    You are defending something they do poorly by bringing up something else they do awfully. You are saying there rating spread is good because they rate a starting player that will start every game as a 36 making him useless and not even worthy of being in the game if this is the wait they are implemented.
    Viking11
    You are defending something they do poorly by bringing up something else they do awfully. You are saying there rating spread is good because they rate a starting player that will start every game as a 36 making him useless and not even worthy of being in the game if this is the wait they are implemented.

    So, you are saying that then. I'm not.
    I'm saying your information was wrong. I updated my list to show that the spread still starts much lower than the 70 you claimed. I mean, there are 58 OVR guys in MUT.
    I've always thought the spread should be greater. The NHL series is the worst about this.
    JayhawkerStL
    So, you are saying that then. I'm not.
    I'm saying your information was wrong. I updated my list to show that the spread still starts much lower than the 70 you claimed. I mean, there are 58 OVR guys in MUT.
    I've always thought the spread should be greater. The NHL series is the worst about this.

    As I stated those weren't my numbers. Those were the numbers from the person I was quoting. The real range is more like 63-99 with very very few players below that mark. If EA has admitted the problem and is trying to fix it I don't see how you can try to defend it
    Viking11
    As I stated those weren't my numbers. Those were the numbers from the person I was quoting. The real range is more like 63-99 with very very few players below that mark. If EA has admitted the problem and is trying to fix it I don't see how you can try to defend it

    I didn't defend it.
    This discussion should be proof that football is a very , very hard sport to simulate ...
    Each side has great points
    I think it all comes down to visual.
    Let’s use the “double me” Zone ability for example.
    The WR is one on one with the DB in a 50/50 catch situation ... when the animation kicks in , what triggered that outcome doesn’t matter, but how the animation plays out should. Warping, clipping etc is a no no. But if it looks smooth and clean I’m all for it.
    In this scenario. What should be taken into account alSo is if the defender is playing man or zone.
    In man coverage you’re not looking at the ball so an animation relative to that should play out.
    It’s all about the visual to me. Football is a sport of many factors and outcomes. Trying to get it to appear as realistic as possible comes down to the animation playout.
    If a players ratings are lowered because another is in the zone in order to give a higher chance of success im ok with. But if it looks unattractive then I’m disappointed.
    But alSo they do say the zones don’t affect either ratings. So idk. It’s all speculation until tomorrow
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    In the WR vs. DB example we were discussing earlier it occurred to me today that gimping the WR is probably a superior option to buffing the defender in an X-Factor scenario.
    If we give the defender a buff how will that play out on screen? They will either get a speed boost or the radius around them which will trigger an animation gets larger. This means more suction and more warping.
    If we make the receiver slower then the defender can close at their "normal" speed and still make the play.
    stinkubus
    In the WR vs. DB example we were discussing earlier it occurred to me today that gimping the WR is probably a superior option to buffing the defender in an X-Factor scenario.
    If we give the defender a buff how will that play out on screen? They will either get a speed boost or the radius around them which will trigger an animation gets larger. This means more suction and more warping.
    If we make the receiver slower then the defender can close at their "normal" speed and still make the play.

    I think we should take a step back and stop thinking of it in terms of video games. First we need to find out what abilities makes a corner great in the nfl. Then we need to think about how these abilities set him apart from other players of his position. After that take what is physically happening in real life and put numbers and game physics to it. I think that will give you more organic looking football were you don't need artificial buffs or penalties to simulate something.
    Let's say a corner really excels in those jump ball battles. What is it that makes him better in those situations? You could say let's add +4 to his jump. That would be probably make him better in those situations because he would be able to jump higher. In reality his jumping ability is the same no matter what. He doesn't some how jump higher on those instances. Maybe the real reason he is good in those situations is because he is very good at timing his jump and getting a hand on the ball. The ratings that affect those abilities would only be changed. There would be no need to change the wr ratings either as they would also jump just as high no matter who is covering them. The same for speed. No one is running slower because of who is covering them. There coverage abilities could lead to the reciever not being able to get to their full speed potential but physically there speed has not changed. Madden would then need a mechanic that allowed for the corner to "slow" the reciever when executed. During a single play a reciever could be being slowed down during a play but in an instant gets loose and accelerates to full speed. That's why a -2 on his speed for that play would we inaccurate. It would not allow him to reach his actual speed because the corner had "slowed" him.
    Essentially anything can be done, even with speed. Different playing surfaces may create a faster result in some players than others. 40-yard sprints are not an exact indicative measurable to game speed. A simple bump can change speed or concentration, and so on.
    Other abilities such as route running can make a player appear faster or slower. Jerry Rice comes to mind.
    So, any number of rating numbers could be adjusted, and as long as the animations are present, the visual representation should be pleasing and believable to the viewer.
    I like your example of jerry rice. Speed is a physical trait for him. Let's say he runs a good route. That route didn't physically make him run faster. That would be displeasing visually to see him moving faster. I can remember when the spin move was big in madden. There was an artificial speed boost with sliding. It was a very effective move but visually displeasing and didn't not represent a spin move in real life. That is what I see happening when you boost players speed.
    My concern now after seeing some beta videos is the CPU will force plays against stars In The Zone to trigger plays for people playing, to produce the moments to show the feature off.
    Nza
    My concern now after seeing some beta videos is the CPU will force plays against stars In The Zone to trigger plays for people playing, to produce the moments to show the feature off.

    I don't think the CPU is forcing plays, they literally have no idea that these abilities exist and don't respect them.

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