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SimFBallCritic Analyzes Man Coverage in All-Pro Football 2K8 and Madden 20

madden vs. all-pro football

Madden NFL 20

SimFBallCritic Analyzes Man Coverage in All-Pro Football 2K8 and Madden 20

With Madden 21 news being delayed due to larger issues in the world taking precedence, I think it’s good to take another look back at Madden 20 compared to other football games that came before it. It’s nothing new to compare Madden to older football games and lament the state of things — OS folks are very good at that — but I think constructive criticism and breakdowns like this one by SimFBallCritic are always helpful to watch.

Madden vs. All-Pro Football 2K8 in terms of man coverage is something that speaks to me more than a lot of other comparisons. All the way back to ESPN NFL 2K5, it was relatively easy to make the case for 2K having a better motion engine at least in terms of how it looked in action. Responsiveness of players and even how the passing game played out in both games was much more up for debate — how players moved in Madden was preferred by many and passing the ball in 2K was very easy — but 2K generally “looked” more realistic.

That same concept carried over to All-Pro Football 2K8, and I think it’s something shown off well in Sim’s video. There’s clipping between the two players in the APF 2K8 clip and plenty of other stuff to critique, but the way the secondary player deals with his man mark, and how both players interact just looks functionally more impressive, even now when compared to Madden 20.

For all the improvements Madden has received over the years, animations are an area where the game has generally fallen short. To me, it’s been two issues holding the series back there, and they’re both shown off in man coverage plays. The first is foot planting and sliding are generally an issue in EA football games. I don’t think we should expect perfect foot planting every step because gameplay-wise that might not even feel right if it’s superseding the human control (as has been the issue in other games attempting this), but it’s still easy to point out the flaws.

The other issue are those “blending” animations that take place as a player goes from one type of animation to another. At about 1:25 in the video, you can see a good example of this blending issue (there’s other examples in the video as well). The two players interact near the line of scrimmage, then sort of bounce out of that interaction as the defender slides into going into a trail coverage. It just doesn’t look right, and it also leads to an outcome where a large amount of space is gained by the receiver for no visual reason other than the animation oddity.

Sim goes more into real football technique and the like, and I think it’s valid to analyze those things and discuss where Madden comes up short, but first and foremost I think visually Madden needs to improve how the animations play out, and figure out a better method to branch from one animation to another during a play. If the visuals are cleaned up in those regards, things like proper football technique will matter more, but if your animations are going to let you down regardless, that “high-end” realism stuff is irrelevant because it won’t make the game look or play better from start to finish.

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  1. Fully agree with the video.
    APF definitely has its flaws. But in terms of pure gameplay, it still tops Maddens in a lot of areas. I can fire up APF every once in a while and get a season in just because I enjoy the gameplay. Madden's problems are that it is so animation dependent and AI is so scripted. Madden's AI has been a big issue since start of 6th gen. CPU AI has to be scripted so everything goes according to plan. Madden has been two-man animation dependent for a very long time. You can see in the clip where the DBs have to slide in place and pop out of animations. Especially with tackling. You see the suction tackling or tackle animation starting before the interactions even takes place. You see in that APF clip how there were no sliding necessary. You see the DB give his press, stays close, actually look for the ball, turn to make play for ball, then tackles the WR to make sure he doesn't catch ball. In Madden, the DB would have slide into place, trailed behind, not look back, and would've went into a spectacular catch animation.
    I feel Madden needs to overhaul its AI system. That's my main problem. The AI in Madden has been severely lacking. So CPU has to have its hand held and dictates what happens. CPU Players don't play independently of each other in Madden. With new generation consoles and vastly improved CPUs, hopefully Madden overhauls AI.
    I've been screaming this from a mountain top: 2k really dropped the ball... and they continue to drop the ball. Everyone touts that 2k's gameplay exceeds Madden's gameplay. Everyone is frustrated with Madden. This is the time for 2k to create a fully customizable, non licensed game.
    The major things that will make this game work:
    Release Date
    Release this game in May or June. Do not try to go head to head against EA because you're going to lose that battle. Release the game now... gamers still have the need for their football fix. They are bored with EA right now. This would be the perfect time to release because they have the market all to themselves. When Aug comes around, most will flock to EA, and that's ok. You already sold your copies
    Fully Customizable
    The game that you play for the first time will very well feature the Dallas Showboats and the Atlanta Hawks. It's not 2k's fault if some savvy computer users get creative and create a team that closely resembles the Atlanta Falcons and the Dallas Cowboys. It's not 2k's fault if the same user create accurate rosters. EA will probably try to sue, but they don't have a leg to stand on. EA messed up with NCAA by having the University of Florida's QB to be a mobile left handed white QB who wears #15 and comes from Jacksonville FL and swear up and down that it is not Tim Tebow. NCAA went too far with player likeness. If they would have simply had University of Florida's QB be truly some random person --and let the gamers upload real life rosters, then all would have been well. I do not know of any situation where a game company was sued based on what the gamers upload and download
    Heck... the fact that nearly 12 years later, people are still playing these games because of their frustration w/ EA proves my point.
    Franchise Mode
    I truly believe that 2k's biggest short coming was the lack of a franchise mode. They hedged their bet that gamers would be in awe over the ability to create uniforms and play with John Elway and Too Tall Jones. No. The biggest thing was no franchise. Gamers want to build their teams, but you play a season and that's that. And if you played a season and your team was 3-10, there was no need for you to go on.
    I honestly wish that I had the business mind (and resources ie finances) to do this. The lack of a license is not what would stop people from buying. I know folks will point to games like Backbreaker and that other game that was released last year but those were just bad games. And to prove my point, this 'non sim' game that 2k will be bringing out in two years will not be a success. It will have real teams/players but if it is an arcade NFL Blitz, it's not going to be successful.
    Something needs to be corrected because 100% of these Madden analysis "never" mention this, nor do I believe these individuals 1) understand what's driving said outcomes or 2) know about the under-the-hood metrics because they don't lab that deep for their analysis.
    **Anyone with a PC can verify this to be true.
    The current gameplay build we see Madden in is designed data wise, to placate to the User vs User gameplay.
    - the AI is tweaked to fit within the User vs User framework, which is geared to a more open/fun experience void of any "major" AI difficulty application.
    Attached is the pic to the Coverage file and some of the plethora of variables that affect what's being displayed in his video.
    Just looking at the ManCoverage_Technique variables, you can see how the outcome in his vid is driven not because of a "bad game", but because of "bad variables" chosen to drive what is happening.
    A lot of the shifting/warping is caused by the chosen variable for these different aspects forcing what is defined.
    - both the HorzShade_Dist and OverShade_Dist is forcing the defender into the setup of these variables (1yrd and 1yrd)
    - then you throw in the Cutreaction
    - Read/React BreakTime
    - Break During Throw
    - Break During Release
    - Break on Ball
    - Play Receiver
    - Play Ball
    - Difficulty Modifier(s)
    - Contextual Awareness Modifier(s)
    - Bonuses, Delays
    - Rating Delta's that partly decide chosen win/loss animations
    - etc, etc, etc...
    Many of the Interaction Distance is exaggerated for some reason
    - 3yrds DefenderTrail_Dist in Man Cov
    - 3.5 yrds for beat defender to jump Intercept
    - 3.5 yrds for engaged defender to Reach Tackle
    This game can be cleaned up so much if the Gameplay variables are set correctly to actually mimic Simulation of the sport, but they're not.
    After adjusting many of these Gameplay variables to levels that enhance/bring out animations/outcomes, I'm like :brickwall why can't this be the base build of the game, then Play Styles branch form here.
    It's absurd that APF2k8 is still a viable comparison gameplay wise. I couldn't fathom what an NFL/APF 2k game would look/play like on current gen hardware, let alone next-gen.
    khaliib

    After adjusting many of these Gameplay variables to levels that enhance/bring out animations/outcomes, I'm like :brickwall why can't this be the base build of the game, then Play Styles branch form here.

    Intriguing to say the least. Im curious if the same can be done for OL/DL play. Can you post a gameplay video of the pc sim adjustments/modifications in action?
    Kanobi
    It's absurd that APF2k8 is still a viable comparison gameplay wise. I couldn't fathom what an NFL/APF 2k game would look/play like on current gen hardware, let alone next-gen.

    Americas Team
    Why have they not made another APF? I would even take a remaster or remake.

    Exactly. APF gameplay still holds up very well today.
    I would love a new APF game. 2k has better brand recognition than in 2007 and the want for a different licensed football is strong enough where a APF would do a lot better now.
    But going back on topic, he had another video detailing difference on deep safety play. The main problem in Madden is AI. The CPU AI isn't intelligent enough to read and react. The AI is so scripted and follows coverage assignments regardless of what is happening in front of them. You shouldn't see Deep Safeties dropping back 10 yards when the offense route combinations are dictating it. Madden needs to have AI be intelligent to read and react. The game just feels so scripted.
    Americas Team
    Why have they not made another APF? I would even take a remaster or remake.

    It didn't sell very well at all is probably the main reason. A remaster would be great though, no draft/franchise mode makes this game unplayable for me though. I liked many things about APF, but always liked Madden a bit more in the end for whatever reason.
    https://www.pastapadre.com/2007/08/03/all-pro-football-2k8-sales-fall-flat#:~:text=After%20two%20weeks%2C%20All-Pro,and%2023%2C618%20on%20the%20PS3.
    illwill10
    Exactly. APF gameplay still holds up very well today.
    I would love a new APF game. 2k has better brand recognition than in 2007 and the want for a different licensed football is strong enough where a APF would do a lot better now.
    But going back on topic, he had another video detailing difference on deep safety play. The main problem in Madden is AI. The CPU AI isn't intelligent enough to read and react. The AI is so scripted and follows coverage assignments regardless of what is happening in front of them. You shouldn't see Deep Safeties dropping back 10 yards when the offense route combinations are dictating it. Madden needs to have AI be intelligent to read and react. The game just feels so scripted.

    But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them.
    So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play.
    Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing.
    Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds)
    - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s
    - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so
    Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled.
    Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages.
    - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor)
    - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React.
    I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.
    khaliib
    But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them.
    So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play.
    Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing.
    Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds)
    - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s
    - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so
    Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled.
    Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages.
    - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor)
    - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React.
    I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

    I can attest to the ball speed. I've decreased the ball speed and has improved coverage significantly.
    Why haven't you created your own gameplay mod sir?? (:
    Your knowledge would be a huge help on the PC side!
    khaliib
    But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them.
    So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play.
    Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing.
    Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds)
    - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s
    - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so
    Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled.
    Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages.
    - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor)
    - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React.
    I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

    I was just about to come in here and say this but you said in a much more robust way lol. Give the user more options on customization.
    Hell I'd even kill for something as simple as NCAA used to have where one of the coaching adjustments was to allow users to adjust their zone coverage to deep, normal or shallow.
    illwill10
    But going back on topic, he had another video detailing difference on deep safety play. The main problem in Madden is AI. The CPU AI isn't intelligent enough to read and react. The AI is so scripted and follows coverage assignments regardless of what is happening in front of them. You shouldn't see Deep Safeties dropping back 10 yards when the offense route combinations are dictating it. Madden needs to have AI be intelligent to read and react. The game just feels so scripted.

    At this point, I wish they would just take franchise mode out of the game. Put us out of our misery.
    Want to be Esports, online and MUT. Great! Do that. And more power to you, obviously its working out. Just stop teasing us with the rest. Might even further your quest, not wasting resources elsewhere.
    Madden08PCgmr
    At this point, I wish they would just take franchise mode out of the game. Put us out of our misery.
    Want to be Esports, online and MUT. Great! Do that. And more power to you, obviously its working out. Just stop teasing us with the rest. Might even further your quest, not wasting resources elsewhere.

    So you would rather have less? That logic doesn't make sense to me. I mean they're adding things to Franchise yr to yr, bit by bit. No way there going to make everyone happy one way or another every yr. Looking forward to what they add this yr, it's what it is.
    Milticket
    It didn't sell very well at all is probably the main reason. A remaster would be great though, no draft/franchise mode makes this game unplayable for me though. I liked many things about APF, but always liked Madden a bit more in the end for whatever reason.
    https://www.pastapadre.com/2007/08/03/all-pro-football-2k8-sales-fall-flat#:~:text=After%20two%20weeks%2C%20All-Pro,and%2023%2C618%20on%20the%20PS3.

    biggest misstep by 2k is not including a franchise mode.
    The game would have built better momentum as far as long term sales, which would probably have warranted a newer version of APF2k.
    khaliib
    But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them.
    So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play.
    Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing.
    Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds)
    - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s
    - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so
    Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled.
    Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages.
    - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor)
    - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React.
    I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

    if that's the case, they can still do this by having the AI play more logically.
    NFL QB's have to fit passes into tight windows, coverage alot of the time.
    Madden's AI in coverage is horrible. the worst DB's in The NFL are maybe 1-2 steps behind when they get beat, and recover to make said tackle. Blown coverages do happen, but in Madden 90% of the catches by wr seem to be blown coverage where the receiver is open by 5+ yards. not realistic.
    even in Madden, the zone coverage doesn't seem or feel organic, when compared to 2k.
    Madden and 2k are fundamentally 2 different games. Madden is highlight driven. 2k does a good job replicating the little nuances that make football, football, which is supposed to be tactical.
    khaliib
    But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them.
    So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play.
    Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing.
    Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds)
    - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s
    - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so
    Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled.
    Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages.
    - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor)
    - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React.
    I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

    To piggyback onto this, in M19 closed beta, they had deep half zones reacting to deep outs & posts, as an example, when they were the lone deep route to that side. Deep blue zones were playing aggressive to the receiver, doubling or even sort of bracketing, instead of spot dropping uselessly.
    As a result deep passing was WAY tougher, much more like IRL where you can't just throw it 15+ yds beyond the LOS every other attempt. It's not as if IRL QBs wouldn't like to just as often as Madden players, they just usually can't attempt the throw because NFL defenses can easily take away the deep ball when they want to. So what happened? Players in the beta loudly complained that coverage was way too tough. When the game shipped, these deep blues were back to not playing the receiver.
    The reality is the game can often do what some people here want it to do. But the other part of that reality is most don't actually want it to do this. Even 'sim' players expect to throw it downfield through the air at a far more aggressive rate than IRL QBs.
    Madden08PCgmr
    At this point, I wish they would just take franchise mode out of the game. Put us out of our misery.
    Want to be Esports, online and MUT. Great! Do that. And more power to you, obviously its working out. Just stop teasing us with the rest. Might even further your quest, not wasting resources elsewhere.

    I've walked away from a couple of other sports series that had franchise modes that went into the crapper...I just walked away...I don't post in the forums for those games anymore, I don't buy them, I barely even acknowledge their existence.
    Other people enjoy them though and I have ZERO right to state that the mode should be removed from the game just because I don't like it. I'm not special...I don't have that right...and I'm not entitled to any preferential treatment....
    JoshC1977
    I've walked away from a couple of other sports series that had franchise modes that went into the crapper...I just walked away...I don't post in the forums for those games anymore, I don't buy them, I barely even acknowledge their existence.
    Other people enjoy them though and I have ZERO right to state that the mode should be removed from the game just because I don't like it. I'm not special...I don't have that right...and I'm not entitled to any preferential treatment....

    You sound like someone who played the MLB 2K games :)
    Totally agree though. It would be bogus to get rid of franchise. That solves nothing for us. Especially when they have the exclusive license for 5 more years. Franchise isn't at the place that any of us would like it to be, but it's still the mode i play 99% of the time i spend playing madden and if it were gone there's little chance of me buying the game.
    Aestis
    To piggyback onto this, in M19 closed beta, they had deep half zones reacting to deep outs & posts, as an example, when they were the lone deep route to that side. Deep blue zones were playing aggressive to the receiver, doubling or even sort of bracketing, instead of spot dropping uselessly.
    As a result deep passing was WAY tougher, much more like IRL where you can't just throw it 15+ yds beyond the LOS every other attempt. It's not as if IRL QBs wouldn't like to just as often as Madden players, they just usually can't attempt the throw because NFL defenses can easily take away the deep ball when they want to. So what happened? Players in the beta loudly complained that coverage was way too tough. When the game shipped, these deep blues were back to not playing the receiver.
    The reality is the game can often do what some people here want it to do. But the other part of that reality is most don't actually want it to do this. Even 'sim' players expect to throw it downfield through the air at a far more aggressive rate than IRL QBs.

    Thank you for confirming my sanity. I played the M19 beta and I enjoyed how it played much better than M18. Then I got the game in hand I was confused af. It’s been that way on several betas. The game felt different in beta, even the ball seemed to have more realistic physics. I couldn’t ever figure out why until I read your post regarding the deep passing.
    Milticket
    So you would rather have less? That logic doesn't make sense to me. I mean they're adding things to Franchise yr to yr, bit by bit. No way there going to make everyone happy one way or another every yr. Looking forward to what they add this yr, it's what it is.

    "They're not going to make everyone happy..."
    They could. They certainly have the resources and finances at their disposal. They make the choice not to. Their choice. I've learned to live with it.
    I would rather the mode be removed. It would remove a great deal of the angst and consternation with the product. And I think it would be better for the product overall, not wasting valuable resources on something they ultimately don't seem to be interested in.
    Madden08PCgmr
    "They're not going to make everyone happy..."
    They could. They certainly have the resources and finances at their disposal. They make the choice not to. Their choice. I've learned to live with it.
    I would rather the mode be removed. It would remove a great deal of the angst and consternation with the product. And I think it would be better for the product overall, not wasting valuable resources on something they ultimately don't seem to be interested in.

    I still disagree with everything your saying but that's okay. I don't think they're wasting time on Franchise at all & want them to put those resources into Franchise Mode. Trust me, if this mode had everything a person could imagine, it still would fall short of people's expectations. Everyone being happy is a pipe dream, especially when it comes to Madden.
    tril
    if that's the case, they can still do this by having the AI play more logically.
    NFL QB's have to fit passes into tight windows, coverage alot of the time.
    Madden's AI in coverage is horrible. the worst DB's in The NFL are maybe 1-2 steps behind when they get beat, and recover to make said tackle. Blown coverages do happen, but in Madden 90% of the catches by wr seem to be blown coverage where the receiver is open by 5+ yards. not realistic.
    even in Madden, the zone coverage doesn't seem or feel organic, when compared to 2k.
    Madden and 2k are fundamentally 2 different games. Madden is highlight driven. 2k does a good job replicating the little nuances that make football, football, which is supposed to be tactical.

    they arent even blown coverages in madden, they "wtf" plays. Call man to man, shade inside, wr runs a slant, your corner takes 2 steps outside giving up and easy release and catch when you knew what was coming. Dont even get me started on zone, its still basic spot dropping where you end having guys covering no one. The last thing that messes up zone coverage is it rarely converts to man once the qb starts scrambling.
    Milticket
    I still disagree with everything your saying but that's okay. I don't think they're wasting time on Franchise at all & want them to put those resources into Franchise Mode. Trust me, if this mode had everything a person could imagine, it still would fall short of people's expectations. Everyone being happy is a pipe dream, especially when it comes to Madden.

    Yeah I agree. Since the inception of CFM, they haven't devoted much resources at all to Franchise outside of "top community requests" and scenario engine. I don't see removing it as the best idea. The devs have said franchise has good user statistics. So it would make sense if they actually start catering to that mode.
    I just want the depth of PS2/Xbox Madden Franchise/HC at the very least. That at least shows that they care capable of doing it. It's just that resources are devoted to other modes
    It's not just that resources are dedicated to different modes. Let's say the the issue caught traction, Congress decided to ban microtransactions within video games, and the President signs the bill into law.
    What makes you so certain that those resources would be reallocated to beefing up franchise?
    SolidSquid
    they arent even blown coverages in madden, they "wtf" plays. Call man to man, shade inside, wr runs a slant, your corner takes 2 steps outside giving up and easy release and catch when you knew what was coming. Dont even get me started on zone, its still basic spot dropping where you end having guys covering no one. The last thing that messes up zone coverage is it rarely converts to man once the qb starts scrambling.

    I agree.
    I would actually like to realistic blown coverages. But currently we have "wtf" plays. I rather see a low AWR/PRC DB take the wrong coverage assignment and give up a big play. But I don't like knowing what's going to happen and still have no control over it.
    stinkubus
    It's not just that resources are dedicated to different modes. Let's say the the issue caught traction, Congress decided to ban microtransactions within video games, and the President signs the bill into law.
    What makes you so certain that those resources would be reallocated to beefing up franchise?

    I still wonder what will come of that. I think publishers will push hard to keep microtransactions. If companies are making over 1 billion alone in microtransactions a year, they are sure to fight hard for it. I don't spend more than I pay for game, so it doesn't matter to me.
    Me personally, I don't think they would reallocate resources to Franchise. In these times, offline modes aren't a huge focus. It's about reaching the online and casual demographics
    khaliib
    Something needs to be corrected because 100% of these Madden analysis "never" mention this, nor do I believe these individuals 1) understand what's driving said outcomes or 2) know about the under-the-hood metrics because they don't lab that deep for their analysis.
    **Anyone with a PC can verify this to be true.
    The current gameplay build we see Madden in is designed data wise, to placate to the User vs User gameplay.
    - the AI is tweaked to fit within the User vs User framework, which is geared to a more open/fun experience void of any "major" AI difficulty application.
    Attached is the pic to the Coverage file and some of the plethora of variables that affect what's being displayed in his video.
    Just looking at the ManCoverage_Technique variables, you can see how the outcome in his vid is driven not because of a "bad game", but because of "bad variables" chosen to drive what is happening.
    A lot of the shifting/warping is caused by the chosen variable for these different aspects forcing what is defined.
    - both the HorzShade_Dist and OverShade_Dist is forcing the defender into the setup of these variables (1yrd and 1yrd)
    - then you throw in the Cutreaction
    - Read/React BreakTime
    - Break During Throw
    - Break During Release
    - Break on Ball
    - Play Receiver
    - Play Ball
    - Difficulty Modifier(s)
    - Contextual Awareness Modifier(s)
    - Bonuses, Delays
    - Rating Delta's that partly decide chosen win/loss animations
    - etc, etc, etc...
    Many of the Interaction Distance is exaggerated for some reason
    - 3yrds DefenderTrail_Dist in Man Cov
    - 3.5 yrds for beat defender to jump Intercept
    - 3.5 yrds for engaged defender to Reach Tackle
    This game can be cleaned up so much if the Gameplay variables are set correctly to actually mimic Simulation of the sport, but they're not.
    After adjusting many of these Gameplay variables to levels that enhance/bring out animations/outcomes, I'm like :brickwall why can't this be the base build of the game, then Play Styles branch form here.

    khaliib
    But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them.
    So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play.
    Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing.
    Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds)
    - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s
    - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so
    Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled.
    Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages.
    - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor)
    - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React.
    I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

    Been saying this for almost 2 years now
    Kanobi
    Trying to imagine what this would look like advanced 13 years on current or next-gen tech...smh...

    Damn shame smh. Madden cant even put stuff from this game into their game. Most think its for a lack of trying but i think the talent is lacking too. They just dont know how to do certain things. Its 2020 and u cant throw a fade route in madden but in 2k8 u can.

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