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NFL Owners Likely to Vote in Favor of Extending EA Sports Madden NFL Exclusive License

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Madden NFL 21

NFL Owners Likely to Vote in Favor of Extending EA Sports Madden NFL Exclusive License

Welp, it was fun while it lasted. There was an ever so slight, sliver of hope for 2K Sports to get back into the NFL simulation market, when it was announced they were making a non-simulation style football game, back in March.

The hope was that the current agreement between EA and the NFL would expire after the 2021 season and 2K would get a chance to make a return to sim football shortly after.

Those hopes took a serious hit today. According to Albert Breer, Senior NFL Reporter at The MMQB, NFL teams will vote next week to ratify a 5 year extension to their current exclusive license with EA Sports, to market and distribute NFL-themed realistic action simulation video games. So basically, it’s a done deal.

PFT thinks so too, which means we’ll see an EA Sports Madden/NFL exclusive through the 2026 season.

Characterized by Albert Breer of SI.com as a potential “ratification,” this implies that a deal has been negotiated between the league and EA, and that the owners at this point need to only rubber stamp the agreement.

We’ll officially hear something next week. We can continue to hope NFL owners don’t vote in favor of extending the exclusive license for simulation football games with EA Sports, but the odds are certainly not very good.

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  1. It seems like the deal is in place and just needs owners stamp of approval. In reality, no way it doesn’t get extended. Madden has brand recognition and sole licensed NFL game, and has always sold well commercially. So no real reason for them to shake things up. EA has the resources to offer a crazy deal for NFL to extend exclusive license. So the 2k partnership could just be a way to extend NFL market in game sphere and bring in extra revenue.
    I just hope it isn’t the exclusive license and just the regular NFL license. I really don’t want to be stuck with another 7 years of Madden being the only “simulation” football game option.
    ASZEMPLE

    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    If that's the case, then by next week we'll see Madden's current deal get extended. I hate to say it. I don't see owners caring about video game competition. Madden has shown it can maintain status quo. If Madden is willing to pay a lot more for exclusive license(which it can afford), then I don't see owners not extending deal. Only way they wouldn't is if they feel other companies(2k) can bring in more money open with an open license.
    This makes me more sad than it should. Amazing we will be 20+ years out from original exclusivity deal with EA with no end in sight. I actually preferred Madden back in the day to NFL 2K but things have gotten really really stale to say the least with Madden.
    If we still have lifeless sidelines next gen I will not buy anymore Maddens as over-reactionary as that sounds. No excuse with the power of next gen to not have realistic sidelines and crowd.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    In reality it's probably never going to change until EA decides it's not worth it (which would mean sales would have to drop significantly), or someone can outbid them. The NFL is not going to open it up themselves.
    It sucks though, that EA is locking others out of simulation NFL games while their most popular modes that they focus on are arcadey competitive modes. It really shouldn't be legal to lock out others with a contract that you aren't even fulfilling. But the definition of "simulation" is loose enough that they can get away with it.
    Have they ever announced what EA pays for the license and how it compares to what they were paying before they were exclusive? I’m assuming it has to be more than double what they were paying pre-exclusivity or NFL wouldn’t go for it
    Honeslty, I don't think you can even fault EA if they are willing to pay a lot more to continue exclusivity. If you have opportunity to shut out competition and control market, then that's what you do. NFL went in that long period of wanting brand exclusivity. With deal seemingly done, its up to owners to decide. And unless owners decide an open license is more beneficial, no reason for NFL to change it up just to give gamers multiple options. Main reasons for NFL to continue EA's deal is either they are satisfied with the way things are going or EA is willing to pay whatever for exclusive deal.
    It hasn't been announced yet if EA extended their NBA deal like 2k did. I don't see EA(even with their deep pockets) signing a 7 yr 1.1 billion dollar deal for NBA License for a struggling Live franchise. That's the type of deal I expect for NFL to have EA sign for Madden
    Lifeless sidelines? That's your gripe? Might as well sign that deal then. Sidelines could be trees for all most of us sim guys care.....what matters is in BETWEEN the sidelines.
    Or am I over reacting ......
    You can't expect NFL owners to care about the quality of NFL video games. My question is how did negotiations get this far? Isn't there some quality control part of the NFL's decision making here? Somewhere along the line, there should be someone who cares that EA's product suck.
    Looks like EA is getting what they want. Disappointing result.
    illwill10
    Honeslty, I don't think you can even fault EA if they are willing to pay a lot more to continue exclusivity.

    I don’t fault EA for keeping control of the exclusive rights to simulation NFL football. I fault them for holding on on to the rights and not delivering nor innovating on simulation NFL football.
    This is really disappointing news. I can only hope that EA steps up their game next gen or somebody else comes along and is able to deliver in the field of simulation and franchise mode but just outside of the NFL banner. Both equally unlikely.
    onegroove7
    You can't expect NFL owners to care about the quality of NFL video games. My question is how did negotiations get this far? Isn't there some quality control part of the NFL's decision making here? Somewhere along the line, there should be someone who cares that EA's product suck.
    Looks like EA is getting what they want. Disappointing result.

    how did negotiations get this far?
    Point A:"EA Made Almost $1 Billion On Microtransactions Last Quarter".
    B: Madden has been a top 10 selling game on the PS4 for every month since it released.
    C: Profits >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>quality.
    If only 2K had a time machine, missed out on Trillions & more future millions smh. Hopefully the 2k game is an actual 11 on 11 & we can mod it to the gills on PC.
    Damn this is more disheartening than it should be for a game but EA and the NFL are about making money so it’s a match made unfortunately. Feels like this is going to be an endless cycle at this point. A lot of people are frustrated with the only football game out in the market but love football so much they’re rather buy the game than go without football. Those numbers are reflected in sales and makes EA looks successful, micro transactions are made, shareholders get paid, NFL gets paid..and on and on.
    Don’t know what it’s going to take to realistically end the cycle.
    xavierd73
    Damn this is more disheartening than it should be for a game but EA and the NFL are about making money so it’s a match made unfortunately. Feels like this is going to be an endless cycle at this point. A lot of people are frustrated with the only football game out in the market but love football so much they’re rather buy the game than go without football. Those numbers are reflected in sales and makes EA looks successful, micro transactions are made, shareholders get paid, NFL gets paid..and on and on.
    Don’t know what it’s going to take to realistically end the cycle.

    The only way to end the cycle is for us not to buy the game. But that won't happen because people are too die hard for this. i miss the days of all the competitive games.
    MLB: Makes a previous console exclusive game be available on more consoles in order to make more money.
    NFL: We good with one NFL Simulation game.
    On a more serious note, we need some legal expertise on this subject. Contract says EA is the only company who can make a NFL simulation game. Define "Simulation" in the context that prohibts 2K or another company from making a simulation game. The term is so loose and vague that it's impossible to figure out the language.
    If swapping in your Punter at QB and running all game is NFL simulation, yikes.
    Dr_Doom_98
    The only way to end the cycle is for us not to buy the game. But that won't happen because people are too die hard for this. i miss the days of all the competitive games.

    I miss those days too, I had no idea what I had with all the options before the license. Football is too popular for enough people to give up on the only game that provides it.
    For a sport its really ironic to have no competition. It’s like if a team had no competition and all they had to do was show up and scrimmage every Sunday until they win a championship. There’s zero incentive to train in the off season or get better. Just stay in good enough shape to put the uniform on for Sunday. I feel like that’s EA right now. And we’re the fans that love the sport but can’t get it anywhere else so we may boo, but we also paid our ticket to sit and watch.
    Milticket
    If only 2K had a time machine, missed out on Trillions & more future millions smh. Hopefully the 2k game is an actual 11 on 11 & we can mod it to the gills on PC.
    You mean, if only Sega hadn't lowered the price of 2K5 to $20 fueling the perception that they had "devalued" the NFL brand. If only EA Sports hadn't been pushing the NFL to go exclusively with them like they had previously done with FIFA.
    If only modern gaming consumers (the last 20 years or so) weren't so obsessed with branding and licensing. That a non-license game has no chance to create even a marginal dent in the commercial sphere or market share. Sucks......
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    With mobile games on the table...I'm kind of hoping, but not holding my breath, that 2K can maybe make a deep franchise management game for mobile.
    At this point, I'll take anything.
    redsox4evur
    how did negotiations get this far?
    Point A:"EA Made Almost $1 Billion On Microtransactions Last Quarter".
    B: Madden has been a top 10 selling game on the PS4 for every month since it released.
    C: Profits >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>quality.

    EA games do not sell more than other games. NFL games sell more than other games. If the NFL were to lend its name to 2K, they would also be making a great deal of money.
    I was in my early 30’s when I picked up 2k5. I’ll be an old man by the time there’s a decent alternative to Madden. If there ever is. I never ever dreamed the exclusive license would last so long. I understand how it makes sense for everyone but I grew up with multiple football games every year. Disappointing.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    jmarcguy
    I was in my early 30’s when I picked up 2k5. I’ll be an old man by the time there’s a decent alternative to Madden. If there ever is. I never ever dreamed the exclusive license would last so long. I understand how it makes sense for everyone but I grew up with multiple football games every year. Disappointing.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Right, looks like the best we'll ever get is an indy dev making a non-licensed alternative. Hopefully, the folks at Canuck Play and Axis Games (I think) can step it up to the level of Super Mega Baseball and the Golf Club (before the purchase by Take-Two/2K).
    Sad day knowing we may never see a true successor to NFL 2K5 or All-Pro Football for that matter.....
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    Nickda55
    With mobile games on the table...I'm kind of hoping, but not holding my breath, that 2K can maybe make a deep franchise management game for mobile.
    At this point, I'll take anything.
    Mobile games have always been on the table. Many games have come and gone.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
    SonicBoom2040
    Lifeless sidelines? That's your gripe? Might as well sign that deal then. Sidelines could be trees for all most of us sim guys care.....what matters is in BETWEEN the sidelines.
    Or am I over reacting ......

    People always say this here, until the sidelines are lifeless and that becomes 20 page threads from the guys who said they only care about gameplay lol
    For the record though, I do agree.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    I think we can only hope 2k goes the same route as super mega baseball arcade looking enough to keep their deal but still have enough sim like qualities along with full customization to keep to keep us happy . It's a slippery slope I don't know if in their deal they are prohibited from allowing full customization if not then that might be the way to go. Of course if the makers of Super Mega Baseball were to develop a football game that would be awesome too...
    Nickda55
    With mobile games on the table...I'm kind of hoping, but not holding my breath, that 2K can maybe make a deep franchise management game for mobile.
    At this point, I'll take anything.

    Quick question what is the switch and stadia considered as since it's a hybrid a mobile or console and it is both could that be the loophole 2k needs to develop a game
    jmarcguy
    I was in my early 30’s when I picked up 2k5. I’ll be an old man by the time there’s a decent alternative to Madden. If there ever is. I never ever dreamed the exclusive license would last so long. I understand how it makes sense for everyone but I grew up with multiple football games every year. Disappointing.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    Same. I never liked 2k, but Madden has consistently gone downhill ever since they became exclusive. I started playing the game in the early 90s, and it got better almost every single year until that point. Then poof.
    But the NFL only cares about making as much money as they can, and the NFLPA rep openly said that the players don't care at all what the fans want a few years ago.
    I'm 42 years old, and my dream of playing a NFL GM simulation probably isn't ever going to happen. The last great Madden was on the PS2. This will be the third straight generation where its in decline.
    Unlucky 13

    I'm 42 years old, and my dream of playing a NFL GM simulation probably isn't ever going to happen. The last great Madden was on the PS2. This will be the third straight generation where its in decline.

    This. So much this. I'm still baffled at the upgrades to the hardware over the years has somehow resulted in a simpler more doped up football game. Madden on PS2 was the realness. The power of the current gen puts PS2 to shame.
    I'm 27 and starting to have the same exact worries. Never dreamed it would last this long with how incredible NBA 2k is every single year. Another however many years is really scary.
    It must be pretty awful making your big announcement, however vague, about how you're going to boldly go into the future with a big contract to keep doing what you do and have a massive chunk of your target market deliver a large and unquestionably disapproving groan. I hope there are enough NFL players who happen to also be gamers who step up and say they were looking forward to a new 2K game.
    Oh well. I've been playing 2K5 for 15 years, whats another 15.
    I can't recall NFL owners ever meeting to "ratify" an extension of the EA/NFL agreement. Maybe I missed the headlines before but this is the first time I've heard of this happening.
    J_Posse
    You mean, if only Sega hadn't lowered the price of 2K5 to $20 fueling the perception that they had "devalued" the NFL brand. If only EA Sports hadn't been pushing the NFL to go exclusively with them like they had previously done with FIFA.
    If only modern gaming consumers (the last 20 years or so) weren't so obsessed with branding and licensing. That a non-license game has no chance to create even a marginal dent in the commercial sphere or market share. Sucks......
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

    Yay it's pretty gross that EA will get another 5 yrs plus with this. Gamer football nightmares continues with this company....
    Kanobi
    I can't recall NFL owners ever meeting to "ratify" an extension of the EA/NFL agreement. Maybe I missed the headlines before but this is the first time I've heard of this happening.

    I agree.
    That was the first time, I actually saw an announcement for a possible extension. In the past, most of these dealing were done in silence. Or at most, we see a couple articles saying "few more years" there never was a concrete time frame in these deals. Heck before the announced 2k partnership, I didn't know when the EA deal was due to expire.
    Maybe we are over reacting a bit? Madden 20 was a big improvement from previous years and I hope they expand on what they already have. The scenario engine , X and superstar factors, the return of the pro bowl did add a little more depth to franchise not as much as it should but it did make it fun at least to me. I would like to see FA signing be a tougher, and a more in-depth scouting system. But if they just keep building on what they have we will have a good football game.
    The Black Redneck
    Maybe we are over reacting a bit? Madden 20 was a big improvement from previous years and I hope they expand on what they already have. The scenario engine , X and superstar factors, the return of the pro bowl did add a little more depth to franchise not as much as it should but it did make it fun at least to me. I would like to see FA signing be a tougher, and a more in-depth scouting system. But if they just keep building on what they have we will have a good football game.

    Even if Madden became the all around perfect football sim I’d still want other NFL games on the market. I miss the days where each sport had multiple offerings to play. Each game would have a different take on the sport. I hope NBA Live can find some stability so we can keep 2 basketball games available. Its crazy, we used to have 3-4 games covering a single sport and I’d play all of them.
    The Black Redneck
    Maybe we are over reacting a bit? Madden 20 was a big improvement from previous years and I hope they expand on what they already have. The scenario engine , X and superstar factors, the return of the pro bowl did add a little more depth to franchise not as much as it should but it did make it fun at least to me. I would like to see FA signing be a tougher, and a more in-depth scouting system. But if they just keep building on what they have we will have a good football game.

    I don't want to make any assumptions, but how long have you been playing the game? Last year's was better than the recent ones, but still a far cry from what franchise mode once was. I've spent the past 14 years waiting for features to be added back in that were taken out with the transition from the PS2 to the PS3.
    If it's a situation of making a sim style game then why don't they switch places? Ea doesn't do sim style well if at all. They give a sort-of effort but not fully....they focus too much on that MUT crap. They should just do that kinda game and let 2k have simulation football concept.
    Enough already with giving a half *** football game. Can't defend these guys anymore.
    Sent From that S9 bayyyyyyy-beee
    m1ke_nyc
    Even if Madden became the all around perfect football sim I’d still want other NFL games on the market. I miss the days where each sport had multiple offerings to play. Each game would have a different take on the sport. I hope NBA Live can find some stability so we can keep 2 basketball games available. Its crazy, we used to have 3-4 games covering a single sport and I’d play all of them.

    It is crazy looking back at the 6th gen era and each sport having multiple sim and arcade option. To now, limited options. Like we had 3-5 sim options for most sports, not to mention of less popular sports. Now as far as licensed "sim" titles, we have Madden for Football, NbA2k for Bball(don't think EA will support Live forever), The Show for Baseball, one major NHL game, one major MMA/UFC game, one WWE title(that had to be canceled), no boxing, no College games. Only sport we have multiple "sim" options is Soccer.
    I get exclusive licenses can bring in more money since the sports can run up the price of license . But as a consumer, I miss having options. It would matter if Madden was a great game, having options is key. Competition either pushes games to step it up or weeds out the companies that can't sustain.
    If I was an owner I'd want this on the open market. Set the bidding at what EA were going to pay, and see if someone else out there wants it more. It may end up forcing EA to pay more and there is little to no risk EA don't end up paying what they were going to anyway (they're not going to low ball and risk losing it). How the TV deals are done are a perfect example to follow to maximize revenue.
    The fact this isn't the approach tells me there must not be genuine interest from 2K, who is the only realistic challenger. They would definitely make it known if they were, and willing to try and outbid EA. So assuming the vote goes as expected, I just don't think 2K are interested in outbidding EA for this. Not this time around at least - the non-sim games they make might establish a brand they can launch off for next time. Going from a pillar of the NFL community in Madden to some new brand all of a sudden would be pretty risky for the NFL.
    The Black Redneck
    Maybe we are over reacting a bit? Madden 20 was a big improvement from previous years and I hope they expand on what they already have. The scenario engine , X and superstar factors, the return of the pro bowl did add a little more depth to franchise not as much as it should but it did make it fun at least to me. I would like to see FA signing be a tougher, and a more in-depth scouting system. But if they just keep building on what they have we will have a good football game.

    Lol stop it. Every year people say “they are going in the right direction its almost a good fb game”. We never get the right improvements year in and year out
    oh well.
    at this point 2k should just try making another generic football game and make it customizable, and include a franchise mode.
    smaller independent developers are doing this, and sports gamers are at least trying the games that these developers bring to market.
    The amount of interest in a football game other than Madden is there. if 2k does try to make another sim style game, they just need to develop it and release it without expecting it to be as profitable as Madden.
    I want to know whats the ROI or profit margin would 2k expect in order for them to make another football game.
    the demand for sports games in general is there, and has increaseed since the last 2k football game was released.
    I guess what Im trying to say; at this point, making a sim styled football game is all on 2k.
    Hshaw810
    Lol stop it. Every year people say “they are going in the right direction its almost a good fb game”. We never get the right improvements year in and year out

    100% cosign
    EA should change their slogan from "its in the game" to "EA Sports, its going in the right direction"....
    m1ke_nyc
    Even if Madden became the all around perfect football sim I’d still want other NFL games on the market. I miss the days where each sport had multiple offerings to play. Each game would have a different take on the sport. I hope NBA Live can find some stability so we can keep 2 basketball games available. Its crazy, we used to have 3-4 games covering a single sport and I’d play all of them.

    That's what's most disappointing about this all is no other legitimate choices. Madden 20 is ok, even with mods it's average at best. Was really looking forward to something new & fresh in the near future.
    this shouldn't surprise ANYONE. the game is built on mut now and big tournament play, they can do whatever they want, im not buying it, 20 was my last purchase for the show, 2k and madden period, creation is being done by some of the best content creators here in OS, and ive went back to NCAA 14 & Madden 25. 
    im oldschool i GREW UP on mrs. pac-man you think it matters to me to go back to better gameplay? and to choose it over a graphical interface, man I welcome the classics back!!!, man yall can have at it, hit me up when real INNOVATION, is back in all sports gaming, until catch me, on already has been done.
    ggs in the chat.
    Madden is the Cleveland Browns of Football Video Games. So much hype and excitement in the beginning only for it to lead to disappointment in the end.
    lunchbox2042
    I guess we should expect teams to use punters as quarterbacks next season and do nothing but run the ball since NFL owners seem to think Madden is sim.
    NFL owners couldn't care less if Madden is sim so long as it keeps bringing in free revenue that they do nothing to get. Just because the exclusivity of it all mentions EA as being the only company that can make a sim football game doesn't mean they care, thats probably verbiage EA requested be included so nobody else can infringe on their agreement and nothing more.
    I've read countless times where people seem to believe if we stopped buying the game it would somehow effect EA and their design choices but I don't see it. Their main revenue source isn't from us anyways so unless people stopped buying worthless packs in MUT nothing will ever change unfortunately.
    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    The Black Redneck
    Maybe we are over reacting a bit? Madden 20 was a big improvement from previous years and I hope they expand on what they already have. The scenario engine , X and superstar factors, the return of the pro bowl did add a little more depth to franchise not as much as it should but it did make it fun at least to me. I would like to see FA signing be a tougher, and a more in-depth scouting system. But if they just keep building on what they have we will have a good football game.

    There is minimal done right as far as realism goes. Blocking is a complete mess, size and strength do not matter, pass coverage is wonky, pursuit angles are broken, animations drive the entire game, theres a ridiculously long list of issues. Just going off of your list, the scenario engine is a goofy system that doesn’t really affect actual gameplay. Just get this guy this many yards for an XP boost. Not realistic there. Many superstar factors are completely unrealistic. Unlimited throwing range? Get outta here with that. So much of their game is unrealistic and yet they claim to be the only “simulation experience” out there. It’s laughable. EA is an embarrassment and they absolutely do not care. They just look at their revenue and laugh at those who want more than what they are giving.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The Chef
    NFL owners couldn't care less if Madden is sim so long as it keeps bringing in free revenue that they do nothing to get. Just because the exclusivity of it all mentions EA as being the only company that can make a sim football game doesn't mean they care, thats probably verbiage EA requested be included so nobody else can infringe on their agreement and nothing more.
    I've read countless times where people seem to believe if we stopped buying the game it would somehow effect EA and their design choices but I don't see it. Their main revenue source isn't from us anyways so unless people stopped buying worthless packs in MUT nothing will ever change unfortunately.
    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

    NFL owners may not care, but as I said earlier the NFL's league office in charge of these negotiations are the ones who should care. The NFL's brand is so different from every other sports league. They are by far the most proactive in protecting and improving their product on a yearly basis. The whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" way of thinking is not in line with how the NFL goes about business.
    It's not some big secret that EA Sports is a sub-par brand. NBA 2K plays better than NBA Live, PES plays better than Fifa, etc. Personally, I expected the league to hear the complaints of the e-sports community and decide it's time to go in another direction.
    But yeah, if negotiations have gone this far already, the NFL owners will dot the I's and cross the T's without a second thought.
    Well I haven’t purchased Madden new since madden 12. Haven’t touched the game since madden 17. It’s been terrible since they made a crappy base game with Madden 06. These legacy issues will never be fixed in my opinion. I don’t think they even can.
    Guess I’ll see if they start over with a completely new game on the next consoles which I doubt. At least 2k is offering us something new next year. I expect I’ll just continue to spend my time with other games. At 45 I don’t have the desire to spend my limited free time playing games I don’t enjoy.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    I mean at this point I would gladly pay for a AAA non-NFL simulation football game that’s just a really well done football game. I could care less about the license. Give me fake players and teams in a fake league with all the bells and whistles we’ve been asking for for the last ten years. Madden has gotten so stale I bet you it could still compete if done right.
    parissims
    I mean at this point I would gladly pay for a AAA non-NFL simulation football game that’s just a really well done football game. I could care less about the license. Give me fake players and teams in a fake league with all the bells and whistles we’ve been asking for for the last ten years. Madden has gotten so stale I bet you it could still compete if done right.

    2k has the NFLPA license so they could release a game with real current and/or retired players similar to All Pro Football. I wouldn't be surprised if it was already in the works.
    kjcheezhead
    Well I haven’t purchased Madden new since madden 12. Haven’t touched the game since madden 17. It’s been terrible since they made a crappy base game with Madden 06. These legacy issues will never be fixed in my opinion. I don’t think they even can.
    Guess I’ll see if they start over with a completely new game on the next consoles which I doubt. At least 2k is offering us something new next year. I expect I’ll just continue to spend my time with other games. At 45 I don’t have the desire to spend my limited free time playing games I don’t enjoy.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    Since start of 7th gen, I favored NCAA over Madden just because of atmosphere and dynasty. I would just Play Madden for a little while just for NFL fix. Once NCAA went away, I took a year off. But since Madden 16, I just rented Madden for at most a month or until 2k came out. There were years I wanted to want to buy game, but I'm not settling just because it's only option
    I always felt that the 6th to 7th gen transition was the dark point for EA. Having their sports games rebuild game on the fly really tarnished their games and Live and Madden never recovered from it. Then in recent years, EA mandating that most of it's game implement the Frostbite engine was a terrible idea. So, this is the one time, I really want them to strip down game and build from ground up. I rather it take a couple years for game to get to a stable position. Instead of just adding onto a broken foundation and just adding bandaid fixes. But even going by that Madden 21 snippet trailer and seeing that same broken tackle animation from the past years, it looks like they are just building on what they have.
    There's no guarantee 2K would make a better game than EA Sports. 2004 is a couple generations ago. That being said, even I'm getting sick of Madden, and I've been rather loyal to EA Sports. The biggest problem for me is the lack of anything off-the-field. There's just nothing to Franchise mode, which back in the mid-2000s I'd play until the 30th season. Back then you'd have real stuff like trade demands, angry players, salary cap problems, and the like. Now it's just "play game, get XP, repeat." It's gotten truly dull. There's no reason to play the game beyond one season. I've tried everything, even stripping down the roster to all minimum-salary players, and nothing can bring back the enjoyment I felt when playing the PS2-generation Maddens.
    Did you hear about the big Madden tournament recently where the winner ended up running the ball on every single play? That should tell you all you need to know about the game. For a "simulation," it's not even close to realistic. Writing this post has made me want to go pull out the old PS2!
    Some people so badly want a simulation product that they enjoy playing that they can't fully admit or understand that the NFL couldn't care less about the things that they hate about Madden.
    The checks clear and EA isn't damaging the brand. Now many here really feel in their hearts that stuff in Madden like Punter as your QB player winning the MCS, sub par player movement, lack of and poor blending of animations, simple, easy access, player agency driven Franchise mode, Et al. does somehow reflect poorly on not just EA but the NFL as well for not mandating that the game be deeper and more realistic. For the NFL however these video games shortcomings(as perceived by the fan base as it relates to other sports game makers) are of no consequence. Don't show players getting concussions or being bad citizens and you're good to go.
    We'll probably never know now, but I was actually thinking that if 2K did get to make a sim football game in 2022 or 23 they would not have a Franchise mode. Card modes and gameplay would be their selling points and they would do obscenely well. A lot of folks here would be overcome with cognitive dissonance though.
    Unlucky 13
    I don't want to make any assumptions, but how long have you been playing the game? Last year's was better than the recent ones, but still a far cry from what franchise mode once was. I've spent the past 14 years waiting for features to be added back in that were taken out with the transition from the PS2 to the PS3.

    I started playing Madden back when I was in high school during the late 90s around the same time I started playing the NCAA football games ( which was Bill Walsh when I got started). I remember how much more in-depth the franchise mode use to be. I stop playing Madden in 2010 and came back to it in 2015.
    I know Madden 20 is a far cry from where it use to be and I understand why a lot of us old sim guys are frustrated. But I think now the dev team are trying to give us franchise guys what we want but still keep their mut crowd happy.
    The game would probably be no different if there was competition from 2K; it isn't as if 2K is creating games without issue or complaints. Some people would purchase both games, but there could also be a large share of people who exclusively buy one or the other and the result would be profit losses for EA, with neither company having any more money to work towards a greater gaming experience.
    If I could make changes towards a better game, I would push towards outsourcing the engine creation to a company that knows engines, such as Epic Games and their Unreal engine.
    I would put resources in establishing the foundation of football, the trench game between the Offensive and Defensive line.
    I believe many who look back at previous iterations may be clouded by nostalgia.
    Enjoy the monetization of certain game modes; they allow for profits while maintaining a consistent base price. The next step would be for games like Madden to take the Fortnite approach and go completely free except for micro-transaction options. If EA can monetize Franchise mode, there will be no limits for how great the mode could become.
    We could see a super star scenario where a player's success leads to living in their parent's house in high school, to a dorm in college and then a modest house in the NFL to a mansion as a All-Pro player with advertising deals.
    Owner boxes, locker rooms, hotel suites on the road, etc. all need furnishings, and people will pay 0.99 cents for a different color carpet in their new house, and another 0.99 cents for a new pool table, etc etc. CHa-ching...
    jfsolo
    Some people so badly want a simulation product that they enjoy playing that they can't fully admit or understand that the NFL couldn't care less about the things that they hate about Madden.
    The checks clear and EA isn't damaging the brand. Now many here really feel in their hearts that stuff in Madden like Punter as your QB player winning the MCS, sub par player movement, lack of and poor blending of animations, simple, easy access, player agency driven Franchise mode, Et al. does somehow reflect poorly on not just EA but the NFL as well for not mandating that the game be deeper and more realistic. For the NFL however these video games shortcomings(as perceived by the fan base as it relates to other sports game makers) are of no consequence. Don't show players getting concussions or being bad citizens and you're good to go.
    We'll probably never know now, but I was actually thinking that if 2K did get to make a sim football game in 2022 or 23 they would not have a Franchise mode. Card modes and gameplay would be their selling points and they would do obscenely well. A lot of folks here would be overcome with cognitive dissonance though.

    Yeah unfourtunately the owners hear the word Madden and think "that there's that game my grandkids play and the players are always tweeting about right? What are the sales like? *Looks at dollar figure* In the billions? Wow, seems like a fruitful relationship that we should continue. Let me grab my reading glasses and fountain pen here..." *Rubber stamps another exclusive EA contract for 5 more years*
    The quality of the game couldn't be farther away from their minds
    onegroove7
    NFL owners may not care, but as I said earlier the NFL's league office in charge of these negotiations are the ones who should care. The NFL's brand is so different from every other sports league. They are by far the most proactive in protecting and improving their product on a yearly basis. The whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" way of thinking is not in line with how the NFL goes about business.
    It's not some big secret that EA Sports is a sub-par brand. NBA 2K plays better than NBA Live, PES plays better than Fifa, etc. Personally, I expected the league to hear the complaints of the e-sports community and decide it's time to go in another direction.
    But yeah, if negotiations have gone this far already, the NFL owners will dot the I's and cross the T's without a second thought.
    And none of this is hurting the NFL brand. Ticket sales, merch sales etc are all doing quite well and Madden not reaching the sim status we all want will never effect that. Trust me I wish Madden was light-years better then it is, in fact this year is the first time I never played a single game of Madden in ages, but its just not going to happen as long as EA can make obscene amounts of money selling packs of worthless cards instead of actually improving the core product itself.
    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Thing we have to realize is this. The NFL owners are a bunch of old guys who have never played Madden in their lives, most have never even seen it played in action. So they really do not care what you or I think. They only consider what the financial graphs show and if they will make a profit. They could care less that the game is trash every year. That's just a reality, and something that will likely not end any time soon. The only thing that will change this is if EA either goes under, or Madden stops making a profit and they CHOOSE to stop making the game.
    Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app
    SonicBoom2040
    Lifeless sidelines? That's your gripe? Might as well sign that deal then. Sidelines could be trees for all most of us sim guys care.....what matters is in BETWEEN the sidelines.
    Or am I over reacting ......

    A little bit. Part of "sim" is being immersed by simulation. The environment matters. So when you see cookie cutter black and white players and fans in the stadium doing the same thing, it kills it in my opinion.
    It's unacceptable at this day in age. Just look at NBA 2K and all these other games. Madden is the only game where they fail in this department. Hell, I could've even sworn I seen a Rugby and Cricket game with better crowds and players on the sidelines.
    jfsolo
    Some people so badly want a simulation product that they enjoy playing that they can't fully admit or understand that the NFL couldn't care less about the things that they hate about Madden.
    The checks clear and EA isn't damaging the brand. Now many here really feel in their hearts that stuff in Madden like Punter as your QB player winning the MCS, sub par player movement, lack of and poor blending of animations, simple, easy access, player agency driven Franchise mode, Et al. does somehow reflect poorly on not just EA but the NFL as well for not mandating that the game be deeper and more realistic. For the NFL however these video games shortcomings(as perceived by the fan base as it relates to other sports game makers) are of no consequence. Don't show players getting concussions or being bad citizens and you're good to go.
    We'll probably never know now, but I was actually thinking that if 2K did get to make a sim football game in 2022 or 23 they would not have a Franchise mode. Card modes and gameplay would be their selling points and they would do obscenely well. A lot of folks here would be overcome with cognitive dissonance though.

    I’m not sure where this logic comes from. They don’t do this with NBA 2K so why would we assume they would do it with Madden?
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If EA paying a billion dollars for exclusivity
    If I was the nfl I would say match it to any company
    It’s not like EA gon say no. Madden makes too much money for them to petty
    But the nfl has to ask ea why is nfl losing to nba in terms of sales? It should never happen
    The Super Bowl/playoffs get more ratings than damn near all the nba national TV games combined. I’m asking EA is the younger demo falling off on playing your game? olike wtf is the reason a hoops game is selling more than our product
    Quentin32
    If EA paying a billion dollars for exclusivity
    If I was the nfl I would say match it to any company
    It’s not like EA gon say no. Madden makes too much money for them to petty
    But the nfl has to ask ea why is nfl losing to nba in terms of sales? It should never happen
    The Super Bowl/playoffs get more ratings than damn near all the nba national TV games combined. I’m asking EA is the younger demo falling off on playing your game? olike wtf is the reason a hoops game is selling more than our product
    That could become an issue only if sales begin to dip significantly or microtransactions are forced out of the game. Otherwise, I think the fact that they've agreed to a partnership with 2K signifies that they want more market share (in the overall video game market). In particular the younger gaming audience that EA/Madden may not be reaching (no data to verify that opinion). Yet, they don't want to "disrupte" their current relationship with EA (too much money involved).
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    J_Posse
    That could become an issue only if sales begin to dip significantly or microtransactions are forced out of the game. Otherwise, I think the fact that they've agreed to a partnership with 2K signifies that they want more market share. Yet, they don't want to "disrupte" their current relationship with EA (too much money involved).
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

    If it’s one thing I know. The nfl wants to be number 1. Getting 2 billion(hypothetical) from 2 companies rather than 1 along with micros would make up for any lost sales. I just wishing for the best lol
    Quentin32
    If it’s one thing I know. The nfl wants to be number 1. Getting 2 billion(hypothetical) from 2 companies rather than 1 along with micros would make up for any lost sales. I just wishing for the best lol
    Agreed, but they are a bunch of "good old boys" - only money and profits matter not "games" for "kids" - led by a commissioner that has pushed exclusivity with most broadcasting, licensing or sponsorship partners (Nike, Pizza Hut, DirecTV, EA, Bud Light ).
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    xCoachDx
    I’m not sure where this logic comes from. They don’t do this with NBA 2K so why would we assume they would do it with Madden?
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Not make a franchise mode you mean? because the franchise mode in NBA 2K has evolved over the years, from a time where it was more significant to their sales. It already exists in their NBA product and it wouldn't make much sense to rip it out. They can add to it here and there without investing much.
    If you're making a brand new green field simulation sports game today, like 2K would with any NFL sim game, then I really don't know if offline franchise gets enough attention to even make the cut. It might exist in some basic form. But starting from 0, there is no way it gets much attention with online, meta games etc taking so much developer attention away to appease larger more micro-transaction friendly audiences.
     I have  bought and played Madden football games   since  the very first one.   I've bought  many Madden football games over the years but  when I buy them now  (sometimes)I wait for  one that's on sale  or used because the improvements from year to year   are minimal at  best.   Madden in my opinion,  should be  light years  ahead  of any football game past , present  or future  but many people still  prefer  NFL2K5    or   get  their  football  fix  elsewhere.  Exclusive deal with the NFL  makes Madden   winner by  default  , not  because of their innovation.  I prefer NFL2k5 which has its flaws also but if given the same amount of time that Madden has hade with the exclusive NFL license I believe 2k  would have  given Madden  a run for digital football  supremacy .      I believe both can co-exist because  football fans would  have choices. In my opinion, no company should have exclusive  rights because  competition  should make  developers produce  a better games   and  gamers can have a variety of choices.  Madden vs 2k, Nba 2k vs NBA Live etc. it doesn't matter which one you prefer as long as  you choose  to  buy one, both  or none. 
    I think many of you miss the point. The NFL is not missing out on many sales. Most gamers are not going to buy 2 games. NFL/EA makes ALOT of money with MUT. Already in place, no rev up needed. 2K has a number that is the MAX they will bid on the NFL Sim License. It is OBVIOUS is not more than EA. 2K makes a business decision to make an arcade game to get some of the football money.
    It is not about competition, it is about sales. Some you assume there are Hundreds of Thousands not buy Madden because they want 2K football. If they want football, they will buy Madden.
    bigboyc
    I think many of you miss the point. The NFL is not missing out on many sales. Most gamers are not going to buy 2 games. NFL/EA makes ALOT of money with MUT. Already in place, no rev up needed. 2K has a number that is the MAX they will bid on the NFL Sim License. It is OBVIOUS is not more than EA. 2K makes a business decision to make an arcade game to get some of the football money.
    It is not about competition, it is about sales. Some you assume there are Hundreds of Thousands not buy Madden because they want 2K football. If they want football, they will buy Madden.

    How much if any do the nfl get from MUT? EA already paid for exclusive rights. And at the time of the last deal was MUT even part of the negotiations
    I’m not sure how anyone from EA or any one defending EA can say things are going the right way when their highest profile tourney is won with a punter at QB. That should tell them right there that Madden isn’t sum and doesn’t represent football. It’s an embarrassment.
    No doubt this year we’ll get Scenario Engine 2.0, more superstar abilities and one “crowd requested feature” that they think will show they give a crap.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Sales will come for Madden regardless* of competition because of the diehard fans.( I was a diehard fan* of* Madden but now* my interest is of a casual fan because of* minimal improvement to the game.* I play* NFL 2k5 also) I am not assuming that people will automatically gravitate to NFL 2k either. Competition can* breeds sales** for those who don't want to play Madden exclusively or 2k exclusively and developers can make a better product if they feel that the consumer will buy only one football game. Will it be Madden or the competition? The sales are there by default because of the exclusivity of the license for Madden and the many platforms that it is on but to limit a consumer's choice* for NFL football to Madden alone is* wrong.Other sports far as I know don't have exclusive rights ( Example:FIFA vsPES soccer,NBA 2k vs. NBA Live.* I don't think we will see another NBA Live) but* EA Madden does for NFL football?* I* don't fault* EA* for* getting the* license* I blame the NFL for** giving EA the license believing that EA are the* only ones that can make a competitive football game. Again, sales will be there*** it just that* other developers if given the* chance with an NFL* license can** make a simulation football game that can compete with Madden.*
    bigboyc
    I think many of you miss the point. The NFL is not missing out on many sales. Most gamers are not going to buy 2 games. NFL/EA makes ALOT of money with MUT. Already in place, no rev up needed. 2K has a number that is the MAX they will bid on the NFL Sim License. It is OBVIOUS is not more than EA. 2K makes a business decision to make an arcade game to get some of the football money.
    It is not about competition, it is about sales. Some you assume there are Hundreds of Thousands not buy Madden because they want 2K football. If they want football, they will buy Madden.
    I think it is less about how high Take-Two will be willing to bid - it has long been rumored that EA wasn't the highest bidder in 2004 or '05 - and more about the brand recognition & consumer equity (to make up a term) EA/Madden already possess.
    Why lose out on a known, marketable commodity like Madden football to hand over your license to any company that lacks branding, marketing and development time (historically) that EA Sports already has.
    Your overall points about market share, sells likely not supporting two titles (with the high cost of licensing & development) & Madden selling based on brand/name recognition are all valid points.
    I completely agree and think your points are valid, but at the same time we won't know that unless a competitor is allowed to compete. Their are multiple games within genres and styles of games that both sell well. The NFL would just rather stay with the devil they know and dictate or control aspects of the final product (no late hits, concussion injuries, etc.).
    The biggest negative though is that should Madden fall short (in a grander way like Madden 96 PS1 or NBA Elite) of expectations the NFL is ****ed. They would have no other partner that could just quickly make an alternative. Similar to how WWE was ****ed by the debacle that was WWE 2K20.
    The NHL & MLB are similarly married to their video game partners. To the point where MLB has more or less forced Sony's hand to have MLB the Show become multiplatform.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    illwill10
    Since start of 7th gen, I favored NCAA over Madden just because of atmosphere and dynasty. I would just Play Madden for a little while just for NFL fix. Once NCAA went away, I took a year off. But since Madden 16, I just rented Madden for at most a month or until 2k came out. There were years I wanted to want to buy game, but I'm not settling just because it's only option
    I always felt that the 6th to 7th gen transition was the dark point for EA. Having their sports games rebuild game on the fly really tarnished their games and Live and Madden never recovered from it. Then in recent years, EA mandating that most of it's game implement the Frostbite engine was a terrible idea. So, this is the one time, I really want them to strip down game and build from ground up. I rather it take a couple years for game to get to a stable position. Instead of just adding onto a broken foundation and just adding bandaid fixes. But even going by that Madden 21 snippet trailer and seeing that same broken tackle animation from the past years, it looks like they are just building on what they have.

    I’m a much bigger NFL fan than college football in real life but I always preferred the colllege game over Madden because of the atmosphere and dynasty. I’d take a college game over having my choice between and EA or a 2K NFL game
    Crazy Packers Fan
    There's no guarantee 2K would make a better game than EA Sports. 2004 is a couple generations ago. That being said, even I'm getting sick of Madden, and I've been rather loyal to EA Sports. The biggest problem for me is the lack of anything off-the-field. There's just nothing to Franchise mode, which back in the mid-2000s I'd play until the 30th season. Back then you'd have real stuff like trade demands, angry players, salary cap problems, and the like. Now it's just "play game, get XP, repeat." It's gotten truly dull. There's no reason to play the game beyond one season. I've tried everything, even stripping down the roster to all minimum-salary players, and nothing can bring back the enjoyment I felt when playing the PS2-generation Maddens.
    Did you hear about the big Madden tournament recently where the winner ended up running the ball on every single play? That should tell you all you need to know about the game. For a "simulation," it's not even close to realistic. Writing this post has made me want to go pull out the old PS2!

    There's no reason to think 2K's game wouldn't be better. NBA 2K is better than NBA Live, PES is better than Fifa, etc. It's not really about how great 2K is as much as it's about how bad EA is. It would be hard to put out a product that isn't better.
    onegroove7
    There's no reason to think 2K's game wouldn't be better. NBA 2K is better than NBA Live, PES is better than Fifa, etc. It's not really about how great 2K is as much as it's about how bad EA is. It would be hard to put out a product that isn't better.

    Bingo. Nba2k got issues too but ea is on another level of incompetence with madden. It seems like they are not even trying anymore
    reyes the roof
    I’m a much bigger NFL fan than college football in real life but I always preferred the colllege game over Madden because of the atmosphere and dynasty. I’d take a college game over having my choice between and EA or a 2K NFL game

    I agree.
    I always felt it must have been easier for NCAA devs than it was for Madden. NCAA must have had more creative freedom than what Madden had. With Madden, you hear the marketing and higher up control what goes into Madden at times. With NCAA, they could focus on what they wanted too. NCAA atmosphere and dynasty still trumps Madden's. They went out of their way to have fight songs for as many schools, mascots, school stadium traditions, Studio Updates in NCAA 14 were nice, Home field advantage. NCAA did streamline dynasty in NCAA 14. Recruiting was dumbed down, but still fun. Still puzzling that Madden never adopted Coach Carousel and more puzzling that NHL did before Madden. It's to the point where coaches have little to no impact on games for a long while. Coach Carousel has been mentioned by devs over past few years, so I'm hoping they overhaul Franchise and add it in.
    I got into College football and even Bball thanks to the games. The Tim Tebow days, Texas Tech Crabtree days, Juice Williams Illinois days lol. But once those games went away, I haven't watched college sports like that at all. Those games helped you follow what's going on. I have wanted to want to buy Madden since I'm a big NFL fan. But I'm not forcing myself to buy Madden because it's only NFL option.
    I would buy a NCAA 2021/22 with little to no hesitation before I even think about Madden. They still have some devs from the NCAA series in house. So as long they continue with the atmosphere and build upon what NCAA 14 had, including expanding recruiting, RTG, and AI playcalling AI, I would preorder it today. But with the whole NIL issues and NCAA trying their hardest shape the laws in their favor, seems unlikely to get another NCAA game. EA definitely wants to do it, but NCAA seems reluctant to change their stance on NIL
    webbjay82
    Y'all thought EA was gonna let that license get away from them? Thats adorable.

    It can't literally last forever, can it? I mean, 50 years from now, will EA still be making the only NFL game for the PS15? I'll be 90 years old, still holding out hope for a better NFL Owner Mode....
    The only way we can get a better gaming experience is to take a united stand on not purchasing this garbage anymore. The next year guarantee change will happen.
    Ya'll have my work I will not be buying another Madden ever again, and I hope we all take a stand on this.
    I never really understood thought process behind thinking anything would change regarding the NFL license and EA. It makes sense for all parties.
    2K has their own "Madden" with NBA 2K. The NFL license isnt the be all end all in sports gaming as we see NBA 2K outsells Madden every year. The NFL is valuable, no doubt, but 2K has a more open partner with the NBA in regards to what they can do with their game.
    I feel like anything that has the NFL shield on it will be sterilized, even a simulation NFL 2K. IMO, Madden is fine. Its sterile and stale but I can enjoy it for what it is.
    Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app
    J_Posse
    I think it is less about how high Take-Two will be willing to bid - it has long been rumored that EA wasn't the highest bidder in 2004 or '05 - and more about the brand recognition & consumer equity (to make up a term) EA/Madden already possess.
    Why lose out on a known, marketable commodity like Madden football to hand over your license to any company that lacks branding, marketing and development time (historically) that EA Sports already has.
    Your overall points about market share, sells likely not supporting two titles (with the high cost of licensing & development) & Madden selling based on brand/name recognition are all valid points.
    I completely agree and think your points are valid, but at the same time we won't know that unless a competitor is allowed to compete. Their are multiple games within genres and styles of games that both sell well. The NFL would just rather stay with the devil they know and dictate or control aspects of the final product (no late hits, concussion injuries, etc.).
    The biggest negative though is that should Madden fall short (in a grander way like Madden 96 PS1 or NBA Elite) of expectations the NFL is ****ed. They would have no other partner that could just quickly make an alternative. Similar to how WWE was ****ed by the debacle that was WWE 2K20.
    The NHL & MLB are similarly married to their video game partners. To the point where MLB has more or less forced Sony's hand to have MLB the Show become multiplatform.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

    2K screwed themselves with the $20 stunt. The NFL has a LONG memory. That's why EA got the exclusive contract...that 2K stunt. NFL like to control their image/brand. EA has been a good soldier in promoting the NFL brand (whether you like the game or not).
    Um, the Show is NOT multi-platform and never will be. Sony uses that game as a Playstation selling point. MLB has tried to get EA to do baseball again (after 2k dropped it). EA hasn't bitten (yet). There is a rumor MVP Baseball may return on the next gen consoles.
    bigboyc
    Um, the Show is NOT multi-platform and never will be. Sony uses that game as a Playstation selling point. MLB has tried to get EA to do baseball again (after 2k dropped it). EA hasn't bitten (yet). There is a rumor MVP Baseball may return on the next gen consoles.

    Don't wanna derail the thread, but you're wrong the bold. See this memo from the MLB_PR department from December of last year. https://twitter.com/MLB_PR/status/1204219506253451264?s=20
    "In addition, the historic expansion of the long-standing partnerships will bring MLBTS, for the first time ever, to additional console platforms beyond Playstation platforms as early as 2021."
    Would be cool if some small market owner like the jags or chargers took a stand and became a cult hero amongst gamers. If they were to convince owners to end exclusive agreement, I would support that team by buying some team Merch.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    As the old saying goes “Money talks Bull***t walks.” The owners and the NFL don’t care about the gameplay and what features and modes are left out of the game. They are looking at it from the business side of things and this deal make sense for them. Madden is a household name rather you know the name from the game, or you know and remember the man himself you have heard of Madden. Madden really is a fun game that anyone can pick up and play. You can adjust the sliders and make it harder if you want or even make it easier. It’s a game that a all ages and skill levels can enjoy.
    They can call it a sim NFL game because they do use the NFL rules, logos , real teams and players, and things that you can only find in a NFL game. The NFL is making a large and easy profit with their partnership with EA. Madden is one of the best way to promote their league, and EA has the deep pockets. to pay for it. With the success of NBA2k those guys probably aren’t willing to pay as much as EA and will take the arcade route.
    The sim stuff that we all what back in our franchise is not what the average gamers what now. The competitive group that just want to play H2H games online , and the mut crowd is the target audience and that’s not the NFL fault, it’s just the changing of the times. With micro transactions for just a swipe of your debit card you can play with a team of super stars. It’s a popular mode and a huge money maker, and 2k would be doing the same thing.
    EA did give us a fully simulation football game. Remember the NFL head coach games? There is a reason they stop making them. Maybe I am the odd man out here but I think Madden is a fun game. It’s not what it use to be as far as franchise mode, and some of the gameplay staff. But rather then look back at the past with teary eyes and we embrace what Madden has become. If they improve on what they have and keep adding new features or bring back some old features I will be happy.
    Well, I guess I will plug an Xbox original and get 2k5 used and ncaa 06. Haven't bought a MAdden game in a long, long time. (last one was Madden 12)
    People are playing MUT and buying micropacks to cheese in the online world and EA is totally disregarding the sim and franchise players.
    Man I'm 48, and still play my NCAA 14 on the PS3, but now, guess I will go back old school.
    Stay Safe
    I’m just so tired of having to fix, adjust, tweak, test, this game so it plays a little like a true football game.
    Every year there is some glaring issue, some years I’ve skipped all along. Slider guys do most of the work but then finding the right set ...it’s like chemistry. Then you get the game kind of sort of running ok and then the patches start coming ...reset again ..you find yourself adjusting testing messing with player attributes ect ect
    I’m just exhausted. The PS5 technology won’t make a difference for EA. They are so close minded it seems it’ll be like giving a Neanderthal a brand new laptop. He’ll dig with it..but he will show it off as the best digging tool. Just won’t change his habits, just a shiny dig tool.
    No confidence any longer in Ea and just to much work to make said product “be like “ said product.
    The main culprit in current Madden poor gameplay has less to do with sliders and more to do with player ratings and playbooks. That's always been the way.
    Guys spend months tweaking sliders...some are still at it with 20. Once you get a good roster set with players re-rated and use a custom playbook with non-working plays removed and blitzes toned down, you get a much better representation of football on the field.
    Slider tweaking is still a huge rabbit hole and it can help a bit, but you are just masking bad stuff, and usually affecting other areas. Whack a mole.
    C
    capa
    The main culprit in current Madden poor gameplay has less to do with sliders and more to do with player ratings and playbooks. That's always been the way.
    Guys spend months tweaking sliders...some are still at it with 20. Once you get a good roster set with players re-rated and use a custom playbook with non-working plays removed and blitzes toned down, you get a much better representation of football on the field.
    Slider tweaking is still a huge rabbit hole and it can help a bit, but you are just masking bad stuff, and usually affecting other areas. Whack a mole.
    C

    I agree with what your saying, it’s just that tweaking Rosters on a PS4 is time consuming. I always do speed and acceleration edits, and many more ..hit power ect, but to do this for every team is a chore.
    It just seems to me that EA’s whole process of programming is very flawed. Sliders and Roster editing can only do so much. QB’s spin like tops...turn their back on defense then whip around and throw a pass..then there was the back
    peddling all the way to the end zone at times ...I mean it’s insane. Last year I had game working fine, then a patch came out and all running backs stopped cutting and juking..they ran straight ahead ect ect ect.
    I guess what I’m saying is EA vision of football is pure arcade, nothing will change for them..it’s 2020..they have technology at their hands ..PS5 coming but really it’s Madden, and it’s not football it’s some weird arcade version of football.
    I don’t have the time any more ...
    Jershy88
    Why have it exclusive? I would end up buying both for sure.

    As a consumer I would too, but the NFL does their business by exclusives. I think the NFL would need to deliver a different business model for that to happen.
    roadman
    As a consumer I would too, but the NFL does their business by exclusives. I think the NFL would need to deliver a different business model for that to happen.

    I agree. Even though NFL did a non-simulation license with 2k, NFL still prefers exclusive branding. I was initially surprised NFL even did a deal with 2k because of that. But why slightly change your business model for video games. Why not give exception for sponsors like Coke, JBL, UPS for example when you allow 2k get back into Football market. I'm sure they can get way more from one of those types of sponsors and get more publicity than a video game. So based on Thursday ruling,' that could tell how NFL really feels
    illwill10
    So based on Thursday ruling,' that could tell how NFL really feels

    I'm pretty sure it will be the same as it ever was after Thursday's vote.
    bigboyc
    2K screwed themselves with the $20 stunt. The NFL has a LONG memory. That's why EA got the exclusive contract...that 2K stunt. NFL like to control their image/brand. EA has been a good soldier in promoting the NFL brand (whether you like the game or not).
    Um, the Show is NOT multi-platform and never will be. Sony uses that game as a Playstation selling point. MLB has tried to get EA to do baseball again (after 2k dropped it). EA hasn't bitten (yet). There is a rumor MVP Baseball may return on the next gen consoles.
    That was a Sega, not Take-Two or 2K, decision to make up ground in market share on XBox/PS2 - they likely thought it wouldn't matter too much since they've also been a long time partner of the NFL - but under the leadership of Goodell (who I really, really dislike) image is everything.
    It doesn't shock me that under his leadership the decision was made to go with one, sole company.
    And I wouldn't remove any blame from EA Sports since rumors had leaked the year prior (in 2003) that EA was pushing for exclusivity. It is the same business pact they made with FIFA & NASCAR (before discontinuing the series) as well. There was also rumors buzzing that they wanted to grab an exclusive license with the NBA too.
    Your point about MLB The Show (as linked to by redsox4evur) is completely incorrect. They are going multiplatform next year likely because sales have plateaued on the Sony consloles.
    Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app
    This is from the gaming biz interview with the chief of gaming for NFL couple months ago;
    ""The way we build out the portfolio is we look to create diverse experiences," Hoagland says. "Madden does a fantastic job as a sim, appealing to our most avid fans, and as we look to build out a portfolio we want to make sure we're delivering games that appeal to this broad group of folks and have the best opportunity to be successful in the market.
    "We want to make sure that our games feel accessible and approachable to the widest audience possible, particularly as we're looking to create a younger generation of fans. We also want to partner with Take-Two to take advantage of what the next generation consoles will deliver, as we expect the transition to broaden the reach of available gamers.""
    So NFL seems content with the job EA has done
    I also wonder when we will hear about a possible EA-ESPN licensing extension. If we are hearing about the NFL agreement that doesn't expire until 2 years from now, I imagine we will hear about ESPN deal soon. That deal should be expiring end of this year or next. That 15 year deal was effective 2006, so It has to be expiring soon. So I imagine we hear possible extension soon
    illwill10
    I also wonder when we will hear about a possible EA-ESPN licensing extension. If we are hearing about the NFL agreement that doesn't expire until 2 years from now, I imagine we will hear about ESPN deal soon. That deal should be expiring end of this year or next. That 15 year deal was effective 2006, so It has to be expiring soon. So I imagine we hear possible extension soon

    It's such a joke that they have a deal with them/NFL Network for stuff like this. The ONLY time this has been used well was in QB1. Outside of that it is pathetic how little they've used from this partnership.
    PhillyPhanatic14
    It's such a joke that they have a deal with them/NFL Network for stuff like this. The ONLY time this has been used well was in QB1. Outside of that it is pathetic how little they've used from this partnership.

    Yeah that really irked me that EA Sports had the ESPN license and only really used the broadcast presentation in NCAA games and NBA Live. The ESPN/NFLN deal is pretty much just for marketing. I would have loved a ESPN and a NFLN broadcast. Or even use the ESPN news hub instead of the Twitter scrambled mess in CFM. I felt Madden missed out on added immersion on not including ESPN or NFLN more in the game.
    But that deal has to be brought up soon as it is set to expire soon.
    illwill10
    Yeah that really irked me that EA Sports had the ESPN license and only really used the broadcast presentation in NCAA games and NBA Live. The ESPN/NFLN deal is pretty much just for marketing. I would have loved a ESPN and a NFLN broadcast. Or even use the ESPN news hub instead of the Twitter scrambled mess in CFM. I felt Madden missed out on added immersion on not including ESPN or NFLN more in the game.
    But that deal has to be brought up soon as it is set to expire soon.

    Sadly, like many other things in our society, companies are buying something just to kill it, and either make sure that no one else uses it, or to eliminate the competition. That's easier that making a better product yourself.
    The smaller business fades away/dies, and the public suffers.
    illwill10
    This is from the gaming biz interview with the chief of gaming for NFL couple months ago;
    ""The way we build out the portfolio is we look to create diverse experiences," Hoagland says. "Madden does a fantastic job as a sim, appealing to our most avid fans, and as we look to build out a portfolio we want to make sure we're delivering games that appeal to this broad group of folks and have the best opportunity to be successful in the market.
    "We want to make sure that our games feel accessible and approachable to the widest audience possible, particularly as we're looking to create a younger generation of fans. We also want to partner with Take-Two to take advantage of what the next generation consoles will deliver, as we expect the transition to broaden the reach of available gamers.""
    So NFL seems content with the job EA has done

    I emailed her. Let's see how that goes. Lol
    tuckermaine
    It just seems to me that EA’s whole process of programming is very flawed. Sliders and Roster editing can only do so much. QB’s spin like tops...turn their back on defense then whip around and throw a pass..then there was the back
    peddling all the way to the end zone at times ...I mean it’s insane.

    Pure speculation on my part, but I have always theorized that when EA programs, they start with the exciting highlight moments that they really want to get to (Barry Sanders open field jukes, OBJ one handed grabs, etc). And then they just go Elaine Benes and "yada-yada" the first part of the play to get to the desired destination. If there are problems, it is tough to identify root cause in that code, so they band-aid it.......and a vicious cycle begins. Bandaids upon bandaids.
    It's ridiculous that they sell an exclusive right to a type of game where other companies can't make one.  
    I've stopped buying Madden, because of the little effort that has been made for years to Franchise mode (such a joke compared to NBA's MyLeague). They need competition,  since a lot of people for some reason buy Football every year, even if it's mostly the same game.
    This post is in response to the locked thread on this topic.
    I would imagine that it's only revenue goals and that sales aren't part of the equation per se for the extra year of exclusivity being granted. Of course several million in sales are going to be necessary to reach those goals, but in theory lets say that M21 sells half a million less copies than M20 but the revenue goes up by 25% due to increased micro-transaction sales.
    I read the transcript of the EA earnings call and the CFO said this specifically:
    Madden, on its own, was the biggest Madden year we have ever seen and the biggest Madden Ultimate Team year we have ever seen and much of that due to the amazing work the game teams did in building Madden with incredible new modes and components to it and a ton of fun and then pushing that into Ultimate Team as well.

    I'm someone who actually likes Madden, but I don't have the expectation of any major changes to gameplay or Franchise mode in the future, it doesn't seem to be necessary for their economic health anymore.
    jfsolo
    This post is in response to the locked thread on this topic.
    I would imagine that it's only revenue goals and that sales aren't part of the equation per se for the extra year of exclusivity being granted. Of course several million in sales are going to be necessary to reach those goals, but in theory lets say that M21 sells half a million less copies than M20 but the revenue goes up by 25% due to increased micro-transaction sales.
    I read the transcript of the EA earnings call and the CFO said this specifically:
    I'm someone who actually likes Madden, but I don't have the expectation of any major changes to gameplay or Franchise mode in the future, it doesn't seem to be necessary for their economic health anymore.

    You're probably right. They don't care about making a good game. They only care about making money. Its always a punch in the gut when I think about it.
    Video games are really my only hobby, other than watching actual football and baseball. And while I do play a number of non-sports games, the game I want more than anything else is a really good, really deep, challenging GM/Owner Mode NFL simulator that I can pour time into, offline, all by myself. And it looks like I might never get it as long as I live.
    2K just needs to make an all out customizable game. Whatever they have planned for the NFL license for an arcade game might not do anything for me or the sim base that’s been ignored. Just make a non-licensed game where you can mix and match American (NFL), Collegiate (NCAA) Extreme (XFL), Indoor (Arena League) and Canadian (CFL) rules & settings for franchise with a varied amount of teams and divisions/conferences you can edit freely. Just go all out so it’s not even just an NFL alternative.
    I understand playing nice so they don’t get sued, but if they are playing nice all to get an NFL License and not even be allowed to make a sim game, just forget it. Make a FULLY customizable non-licensed football game and just make it so good that it will put a dent in Madden sales. That will be the only way to make football gamers happy, as well as having ANY shot at an NFL License anyway.
    I’ll never understand why anyone thinks this license will end. Here is the truth... as long as EA is in business it will always be renewed. From the time this happened in 2004-5, you have to know that EA would spend their last dollar on that exclusivity.
    There’s no point in wishing, hoping, praying or sacrificing chickens, it’s never going to happen. If you want an NFL game, you’ll buy Madden, or like many of us, just stop playing all together and do something else.
    Unfortunate, but this is the way it is.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    TarHeelPhenom
    I just extended my deal for 7 more years to play NFL 2k5, Madden 2005, 2007 and 2012. A savings of over $600.

    Wait, timeout though. You just referenced three Madden titles, two of which are post-exclusivity license. I get it, you think they're good games, and that's fine. But what's to say then you absolutely know you won't like any of their games the next 5+ years?
    I mean you may have some idea of understanding they are more focused toward MUT and things like that, but we don't yet know what the next gen will bring when it comes to their direction. For all you know, you may end up liking it as you do '07 and '12. It would be one thing if they stayed on the same console generation and you made this statement, but until we see next-gen Madden and you're possibly willing to buy their titles post-exclusivity, I don't know how you can say for sure that you won't buy one of their titles down the road.
    TarHeelPhenom
    I just extended my deal for 7 more years to play NFL 2k5, Madden 2005, 2007 and 2012. A savings of over $600.

    I get the whole 2k5 thing. At the time of release it was for sure my favorite sports game. I put a crazy amount of hours into that game. But i just don't see how anyone could play that now and then play Madden 20 on All Madden with slider adjustments and say that Madden 20 is not worth playing. To each his own, but ignoring the new games just for the sake of it is something i don't understand. Especially when you can play the new games for free for 29 days with EA Access.
    I'm not one to engage in the 2k vs Madden debate often and i'm not trying to start anything here. We would all love it if 2k could make sim games again, but not trying the new games (again, for $0.00) and refusing to just to prove a point seems shortsighted.
    Blzer
    Wait, timeout though. You just referenced three Madden titles, two of which are post-exclusivity license. I get it, you think they're good games, and that's fine. But what's to say then you absolutely know you won't like any of their games the next 5+ years?
    I mean you may have some idea of understanding they are more focused toward MUT and things like that, but we don't yet know what the next gen will bring when it comes to their direction. For all you know, you may end up liking it as you do '07 and '12. It would be one thing if they stayed on the same console generation and you made this statement, but until we see next-gen Madden and you're possibly willing to buy their titles post-exclusivity, I don't know how you can say for sure that you won't buy one of their titles down the road.

    You never say never...but I'm not willing to pay $65-100 for what Madden has become. It would take Madden emphasizing Franchise mode in the way that they used to in order for me to shell out that cash because that's what's important to me. They may very well do that as anything can happen but I have zero confidence that they will. I hope I'm wrong.
    PhillyPhanatic14
    I get the whole 2k5 thing. At the time of release it was for sure my favorite sports game. I put a crazy amount of hours into that game. But i just don't see how anyone could play that now and then play Madden 20 on All Madden with slider adjustments and say that Madden 20 is not worth playing. To each his own, but ignoring the new games just for the sake of it is something i don't understand. Especially when you can play the new games for free for 29 days with EA Access.
    I'm not one to engage in the 2k vs Madden debate often and i'm not trying to start anything here. We would all love it if 2k could make sim games again, but not trying the new games (again, for $0.00) and refusing to just to prove a point seems shortsighted.

    I'm not ignoring it for the sake of it. I don't have money to blow like that and I know what's important to me. I love those older games because they emphasized what was important to me as a gamer. That's why it's easy for me. I'm not knocking anybody who chooses current games over the older ones. Have at it man.
    TarHeelPhenom
    I'm not ignoring it for the sake of it. I don't have money to blow like that and I know what's important to me. I love those older games because they emphasized what was important to me as a gamer. That's why it's easy for me. I'm not knocking anybody who chooses current games over the older ones. Have at it man.

    Don’t know if anyone here follows Ryanmooody on You Tube. He has a account on Twitter but I’m not on Twitter. But he posts his interaction with Ea.
    After reading and listening to his posts and his You Tube channel and seeing first hand the reactions by leading Devs and how close minded -childlike and pompous they are, I now can see how this series has despite better technology ect has gotten worse.
    PS5 will make no difference with EAs mindset if I may call it that...
    Sales revenue is important to any company..but their response to the obvious flaws in this game tells me all I have to know.
    Sad...
    TarHeelPhenom
    I'm not ignoring it for the sake of it. I don't have money to blow like that and I know what's important to me. I love those older games because they emphasized what was important to me as a gamer. That's why it's easy for me. I'm not knocking anybody who chooses current games over the older ones. Have at it man.

    I get not spending $60 on it if you're not into it, but it is 100% free through Ea Access as long as you cancel before 30 days. It's worth a try for free is all I'm saying.
    With all the emphasis on remasters these days it sure would be great to get 2k5 with 2020 graphics. That would be insane.
    tuckermaine
    Don’t know if anyone here follows Ryanmooody on You Tube. He has a account on Twitter but I’m not on Twitter. But he posts his interaction with Ea.
    After reading and listening to his posts and his You Tube channel and seeing first hand the reactions by leading Devs and how close minded -childlike and pompous they are, I now can see how this series has despite better technology ect has gotten worse.
    PS5 will make no difference with EAs mindset if I may call it that...
    Sales revenue is important to any company..but their response to the obvious flaws in this game tells me all I have to know.
    Sad...

    Some of that might be true, I agree, but the developers aren't allowed to make the game that a lot of people clamor for because there are people that are much higher up the chain that don't have social media accounts that make most of the decisions on what goes into the game.
    For example, if you ask Clint to fix the punting issue, sometimes his hands are tied.
    MUT has lately taken a front seat in additions and fixing.
    roadman
    Some of that might be true, I agree, but the developers aren't allowed to make the game that a lot of people clamor for because there are people that are much higher up the chain that don't have social media accounts that make most of the decisions on what goes into the game.
    For example, if you ask Clint to fix the punting issue, sometimes his hands are tied.
    MUT has lately taken a front seat in additions and fixing.

    True or not... it's rather asinine to block someone like moody who has been a big figure in this community for so long. Especially after Rex was so cordial with him. Very odd and bad optics. Could show that the criticism is really starting to get to him.
    Also I've noticed a very big shift in perception on twitter towards the series. In the past it was about 60% negative comments on Maddens account when they posted new things. Recently it really seems like 99% of the tweets i read are very critical of the game and the company.
    tuckermaine
    Don’t know if anyone here follows Ryanmooody on You Tube. He has a account on Twitter but I’m not on Twitter. But he posts his interaction with Ea.
    After reading and listening to his posts and his You Tube channel and seeing first hand the reactions by leading Devs and how close minded -childlike and pompous they are, I now can see how this series has despite better technology ect has gotten worse.
    PS5 will make no difference with EAs mindset if I may call it that...
    Sales revenue is important to any company..but their response to the obvious flaws in this game tells me all I have to know.
    Sad...

    I follow his channel. It is definitely a bad look by Clint Oldenburg and EA. Oldenburg's comments have even triggered heated responses from former and current NFL players.
    cyborgninja88
    True or not... it's rather asinine to block someone like moody who has been a big figure in this community for so long. Especially after Rex was so cordial with him. Very odd and bad optics. Could show that the criticism is really starting to get to him.
    Also I've noticed a very big shift in perception on twitter towards the series. In the past it was about 60% negative comments on Maddens account when they posted new things. Recently it really seems like 99% of the tweets i read are very critical of the game and the company.

    I think last year was the year I noticed the overwhelming negativity, but I’m not so sure the sales reflected that
    I didn't know Ryan was blocked from Clint.
    I don't see much of Clint on Twitter and I don't know if there was any interaction between them about a month ago when Ryan showed a video of lack a challenge system not being fixed.
    The criticism might be getting to Clint like it did to Ian here.
    We of course don't know what's coming with the next generation of consoles, yet. EA could put out a game with amazing graphics and improved gameplay. They'll probably get there sooner than later. But I think that if anyone is hoping for much more, don't hold your breath.
    The move from the PS1 to the PS2 was gigantic. The graphics and player control were so much better than I ended up buying BOTH games that year, because I couldn't get my hands on a PS2 until the Spring. And then every year from that point, they made nearly every aspect of the game better. I wish that I knew what a Golden Age it was, or I would have appreciated it more at the time.
    But the move from the PS2 to the PS3 was a total disaster. The game was borderline unplayable and gutted for two years in a row while they struggled to figure it out. It was an embarassment. They finally got it to a point where the graphics and control were better than the PS2, but from that point onward, things were stripped out of the game that have mostly never come back.
    And then while the graphics got another moderate bump on the PS4, the game has basically been treading water ever since. Really, how many ways are there that Madden 20 is a better game than Madden 15?
    So, I'm going to keep my expectations in check as we move to the PS5, and its unlikely that I'll be buying the game the first year.
    Unlucky 13
    Really, how many ways are there that Madden 20 is a better game than Madden 15?

    How much time you got? It's a looooooooooooooong list.
    tinpanalley
    It must be pretty awful making your big announcement, however vague, about how you're going to boldly go into the future with a big contract to keep doing what you do and have a massive chunk of your target market deliver a large and unquestionably disapproving groan. I hope there are enough NFL players who happen to also be gamers who step up and say they were looking forward to a new 2K game.
    Oh well. I've been playing 2K5 for 15 years, whats another 15.

    The Bills Josh Allen said he always played the NFL 2k series. That's a start.
    Adding to the negative Tweets conversation:
    I can’t tell if they’re mad about MUT, arcade gameplay, franchise, sim, or what. Overall, yea it’s pretty much all negative. But I think the thing to be scared about are complaints toward sim aspects. For example: I saw one comment tweet to the 6.1.2020 announcement. The guy said something like “your game is trash. EA sucks. Can’t even stand in the pocket for 5 seconds. Fix your game”. I was like WAIT WHAT!?!? Who are these people complaining ???? Rest assured he got clamored for that with responses at him like “5 seconds??? What are you talking about???” This could also be EA’s fault for not differentiating arcade and sim enough, but still. It’s scary to see negative, general criticism without knowing what that majority is complaining about
    roadman
    Some of that might be true, I agree, but the developers aren't allowed to make the game that a lot of people clamor for because there are people that are much higher up the chain that don't have social media accounts that make most of the decisions on what goes into the game.
    For example, if you ask Clint to fix the punting issue, sometimes his hands are tied.
    MUT has lately taken a front seat in additions and fixing.

    You seem to have a better knowledge and communication of this matter, however what you have stated still makes me cringe- the results are the same I suspect and for me the upfront marketing of Madden should reveal it’s not the best product they can put out. Undoubtedly and unfortunately it is the “only” product as of now we can choose.
    tuckermaine
    You seem to have a better knowledge and communication of this matter, however what you have stated still makes me cringe- the results are the same I suspect and for me the upfront marketing of Madden should reveal it’s not the best product they can put out. Undoubtedly and unfortunately it is the “only” product as of now we can choose.

    I don't disagree with Ryan showing flaws in the game to help make the game better.
    My only point is the reason why it appears to fall on deaf ears is because some of the developers we've (some of us) have interacted with, have stated the decisions are made higher up than they are and marketing has a hand too. Rex tried to input a better franchise mode and is no longer working there.
    All the things that Ryan is showcasing isn't being heard by the right people because they are not on social media.
    For instance, if Ian or Rex would go to their higher ups and say, we need to fix the challenge system, there is a lot of complaints coming from different areas. The higher ups dismiss it or put it on a waiting list.
    I'm summarizing and generalizing as best as I can. This was made clearer with the departure of Ian and recently, Rex.
    illwill10
    It is crazy looking back at the 6th gen era and each sport having multiple sim and arcade option. To now, limited options. Like we had 3-5 sim options for most sports, not to mention of less popular sports. Now as far as licensed "sim" titles, we have Madden for Football, NbA2k for Bball(don't think EA will support Live forever), The Show for Baseball, one major NHL game, one major MMA/UFC game, one WWE title(that had to be canceled), no boxing, no College games. Only sport we have multiple "sim" options is Soccer.
    I get exclusive licenses can bring in more money since the sports can run up the price of license . But as a consumer, I miss having options. It would matter if Madden was a great game, having options is key. Competition either pushes games to step it up or weeds out the companies that can't sustain.

    I remember playing NHL2k3 on Nintendo GameCube(hardly anyone even knows that 2k had a GameCube hockey game) and thought it was definitely held it's own against the EA NHL series.
    I also remember the WWE Day Of Reckoning series of games on GameCube too. They were cool! Now,although to me, WWE 2k20 is an alright game(offline),I totally understand why 2k isn't making a WWE game until 2k21. Remember the different college football games? Now,we're anxiously awaiting for the EA NCAA series to even return.
    illwill10
    It is crazy looking back at the 6th gen era and each sport having multiple sim and arcade option. To now, limited options. Like we had 3-5 sim options for most sports, not to mention of less popular sports. Now as far as licensed "sim" titles, we have Madden for Football, NbA2k for Bball(don't think EA will support Live forever), The Show for Baseball, one major NHL game, one major MMA/UFC game, one WWE title(that had to be canceled), no boxing, no College games. Only sport we have multiple "sim" options is Soccer.
    I get exclusive licenses can bring in more money since the sports can run up the price of license . But as a consumer, I miss having options. It would matter if Madden was a great game, having options is key. Competition either pushes games to step it up or weeds out the companies that can't sustain.

    Check out 2003 in baseball video games:
    MVP Baseball 2003
    World Series Baseball 2K3
    All Star Baseball 2004
    High Heat Major League Baseball 2004
    MLB 2004
    MLB Inside Pitch 2003
    MLB SlugFest 20-04
    EDIT: I screwed the list up a bit. Backyard Baseball 2003 and Home Run King came out the year before.
    I owned and played five of these at one point. Having options and competition was such a delight, and developers definitely feed off each other. Hell, when Ramone Russell toured me through San Diego Studios, I saw an employee playing MLB 2K11 on a monitor specifically to get insight on what does and doesn't make that game tick, and how The Show could benefit. You see inspirations from other games all over the place (most for better, but still some for worse for the hardcore consumer).
    I'd say the biggest thing now with moody v clint (as opposed to previous spats with Ian).. Is the exposure his channel and other major critics have now. Moody nearly has 50k subscribers. SoftDrinkTv's videos of madden failures approaching 1 million views. Back during the ian days.. we had gideon videos that maybe got 5k views?
    Also the announcement of 2k returning to the NFL space ignited the fan base... and may have also poked the bees nest with a renewed anger at EA. This new exclusive agreement is just throwing more fuel to the fire. Clint's comment is just pure stupidity in my opinion. Talk about a lack of awareness.
    He also stated many years ago that folks love of 2k football games was mostly 'nostalgia'.
    I get suits handcuffing you. It's not all your fault. But you can control what comes out of your mouth.
    Unlucky 13
    Sadly, like many other things in our society, companies are buying something just to kill it, and either make sure that no one else uses it, or to eliminate the competition. That's easier that making a better product yourself.
    The smaller business fades away/dies, and the public suffers.

    Well said....well said...
    CM Hooe
    How much time you got? It's a looooooooooooooong list.

    I suppose that there might be things in modes that I don't play, which I'm not aware of.
    But for offline, single player franchise mode, me vs the CPU....I guess the salary editor is nice. But other than that, I'm not coming up with much off the top of my head.
    And when I got online to try and play head to head for the first time in years this past season, I found that mode had been gutted as well. Totally bare bones!
    I've actually been so freaking frustrated by the locker room player model we've been given the last few years. Its so hard to get a good look at equipment and how it looks on the players now! Why would that be something that gets a serious downgrade after being good and stable for several console generations!
    Unlucky 13
    Sadly, like many other things in our society, companies are buying something just to kill it, and either make sure that no one else uses it, or to eliminate the competition. That's easier that making a better product yourself.
    The smaller business fades away/dies, and the public suffers.

    That sounds exactly like what Vince McMahon did when he bought WCW.
    Don't expect any changes, next gen consoles or not. The engine is subpar. There is bad code upon bad code. Coder jobs apparently are like a revolving door so, on top of poor code, band aid work and poor note taking, there seem to be few coders who have consistent experience with the game code.
    I feel to make a good game, you need people who love the genre of game you are making, for the game to be exceptional. This goes for many career fields. I don't feel, from watching interviews and twitter, that enough of the people working on Madden are truly fans of American Football, to a level necessary to make a truly great game; these people are just doing a job, nothing more.
    The game needs an engine from a company that knows how to create an engine. Madden is a Corvette on the outside, and EA wants to use the motor from a KIA to run it.
    Write the code from the ground up.This needs to be done to rid the current code of all the litter and legacy issues.
    Moody, and others who do have some solid criticisms within their material, may be better served if they went over the heads of the key Devs they have focused on so far. In any business, there is a line leaders and managers for which an employee can speak to about a problem. That problem is supposed to follow a line of command. An employees speaks with their shift manager or lead first; if that fails go to the department manager. If that fails go to the plant manager, and so on. It's time to start looking at board members and shareholders.
    Petition NFL players. Lord knows we can all follow every NFL player on Twitter. Many players also play Madden. Add their tags on Twitter and get them active for the cause. 50k viewers out of millions of users playing Madden really isn't causing anyone to push the panic button to change Madden. But I appreciate the efforts so far by the critics of Madden.
    Anyway, just my 2 cents.
    4thQtrStre5S
    Don't expect any changes, no gen consoles or not. The engine is subpar. There is bad code upon bad code. Coder jobs apparently are like a revolving door so, on top of poor code, band aid work and poor note taking, there seem to be few coders who have consistent experience with the game code.
    I feel to make a good game, you need people who love the genre of game you are making, for the game to be exceptional. This goes for many career fields. I don't fee, from watching interviews and twitter, that enough of the people working on Madden are truly fans of American Football, to a level necessary to make a truly great game; these people are just doing a job, nothing more.
    The game needs an engine from a company that knows how to create an engine. Madden is a Corvette on the outside, and EA wants to use the motor from a KIA to run it.
    Write the code from the ground up.This needs to be done to rid the current code of all the litter and legacy issues.
    Moody, and others who do have some solid criticisms within their material, may be better served if they went over the heads of the key Devs they have focused on so far. In any business, there is a line leaders and managers for which an employee can speak to about a problem. That problem is supposed to follow a line of command. An employees speaks with their shift manager or lead first; if that fails go to the department manager. If that fails go to the plant manager, and so on. It's time to start looking at board members and shareholders.
    Petition NFL players. Lord knows we can all follow every NFL player on Twitter. Many players also play Madden. Add their tags on Twitter and get them active for the cause. 50k viewers out of millions of users playing Madden really isn't causing anyone to push the panic button to change Madden. But I appreciate the efforts so far by the critics of Madden.
    Anyway, just my 2 cents.

    50k subscribers. I think hes gotten nearly 17 million eye balls and impressions in the last 90 days. These are not peanut numbers. It's significant.
    That said... I agree with you. This is a foundational problem. Its not a one year fix. I do still think these devs have bad attitudes. I would be curious to see if their job descriptions have the need for social media interaction. I doubt it.. Clint doesnt need to interact with us. But when he does.. we are 'young bucks'. He is patronizing and has made comments that disparage older (and better) titles.
    I'm trying to remain optimistic. I think the current environment of criticism and anger directed to the company is different from the past. Will that change anything? I have no clue. But there's a tangible different feeling now.
    The problem I have with RM is not that he makes videos...but that his premise is just so dishonest. He says it is because he wants the game to get better. I believe the real reason is it is his retribution for being shunned, ignored, and sent out to pasture by EA. His big plans and dreams of working with and for EA got canned.
    He has his followers send him all kinds of clips that, to be honest, you just don't see when you play the game regularly. There is no QC to determine if ratings have been zeroed out, etc. Some of the vids look rigged to me. I just don't see 99.9% of the things he shows.
    If he was on the level, he would have balanced input. But he doesn't. Almost every video he makes is anti-EA and Madden. I don't have a stake in Madden...I have my own issues with the game, but if I were to go only by what I see on his channel, I would never buy the game. I have gotten thousands of hours of good gaming from it over the years. It has its shortfalls of course...we all know them. But he has his thumb on the weight scale when judging the game.
    Competition between EA and 2K is good. Short term...long term. There will be something for everybody and with Maximum also making strides (albeit with miles to go), the future looks a bit brighter than it has recently.
    C
    cyborgninja88
    50k subscribers. I think hes gotten nearly 17 million eye balls and impressions in the last 90 days. These are not peanut numbers. It's significant.
    That said... I agree with you. This is a foundational problem. Its not a one year fix. I do still think these devs have bad attitudes. I would be curious to see if their job descriptions have the need for social media interaction. I doubt it.. Clint doesnt need to interact with us. But when he does.. we are 'young bucks'. He is patronizing and has made comments that disparage older (and better) titles.
    I'm trying to remain optimistic. I think the current environment of criticism and anger directed to the company is different from the past. Will that change anything? I have no clue. But there's a tangible different feeling now.

    I'm pretty sure social media interaction is done on their own is my best guess.
    Ian and Phil popped in here on their own accord and left after two or three years. Rex and Clint visited after Ian and Phil left, but were not consistent and stopped altogether after bout a year or so.
    I think you are correct about the criticism and anger part because of more channels of technology. I feel the principles remain the same, sim customer isn't happy with the output of the yearly game and let's out the frustration during contract renewal time and in between.
    This pattern will only change, in my opinion, if the NFL changes their business model of exclusive and EA changes their hierarchy of who receives more say in what goes into the games.
    These models haven't changed in 15 years.
    capa
    The problem I have with RM is not that he makes videos...but that his premise is just so dishonest. He says it is because he wants the game to get better. I believe the real reason is it is his retribution for being shunned, ignored, and sent out to pasture by EA. His big plans and dreams of working with and for EA got canned.
    He has his followers send him all kinds of clips that, to be honest, you just don't see when you play the game regularly. There is no QC to determine if ratings have been zeroed out, etc. Some of the vids look rigged to me. I just don't see 99.9% of the things he shows.
    If he was on the level, he would have balanced input. But he doesn't. Almost every video he makes is anti-EA and Madden. I don't have a stake in Madden...I have my own issues with the game, but if I were to go only by what I see on his channel, I would never buy the game. I have gotten thousands of hours of good gaming from it over the years. It has its shortfalls of course...we all know them. But he has his thumb on the weight scale when judging the game.
    Competition between EA and 2K is good. Short term...long term. There will be something for everybody and with Maximum also making strides (albeit with miles to go), the future looks a bit brighter than it has recently.
    C

    Using Ryan Moody as a source for what's wrong with Madden is akin to using Wikipedia as a source for your Master's Thesis.
    roadman
    Some of that might be true, I agree, but the developers aren't allowed to make the game that a lot of people clamor for because there are people that are much higher up the chain that don't have social media accounts that make most of the decisions on what goes into the game.
    For example, if you ask Clint to fix the punting issue, sometimes his hands are tied.
    MUT has lately taken a front seat in additions and fixing.

    I agree with this. It was either this year or last that the dev team added momentum to the DB's/LB's so you couldn't just ridiculously lurk all over the place. Also so you couldn't do 300 cheesy hot routes before the play. The competitive scene threw a bitch fit.
    I could care less about a YouTuber & their "input" tbh. While I don't like that EA is getting an extension I do think Madden still gives me what I need in a football game personally. Do I wish the game played absolutely different, of course.
    capa
    The problem I have with RM is not that he makes videos...but that his premise is just so dishonest. He says it is because he wants the game to get better. I believe the real reason is it is his retribution for being shunned, ignored, and sent out to pasture by EA. His big plans and dreams of working with and for EA got canned.
    He has his followers send him all kinds of clips that, to be honest, you just don't see when you play the game regularly. There is no QC to determine if ratings have been zeroed out, etc. Some of the vids look rigged to me. I just don't see 99.9% of the things he shows.
    If he was on the level, he would have balanced input. But he doesn't. Almost every video he makes is anti-EA and Madden. I don't have a stake in Madden...I have my own issues with the game, but if I were to go only by what I see on his channel, I would never buy the game. I have gotten thousands of hours of good gaming from it over the years. It has its shortfalls of course...we all know them. But he has his thumb on the weight scale when judging the game.
    Competition between EA and 2K is good. Short term...long term. There will be something for everybody and with Maximum also making strides (albeit with miles to go), the future looks a bit brighter than it has recently.
    C

    Capa, love your work by the way...
    But you have to admit my man, Madden is a mess. The work that has to be done by us..people here on these threads to get the game running right, really.
    I don’t know much about the relationship between EA an Moody, so I can’t comment I do know what I see...and I don’t see enough to make me optimistic.
    This game has so much potential which is why every year I get sucked into the buggy quirky funky mess that is Madden....and I’ll probably do it again:brickwall
    capa
    The problem I have with RM is not that he makes videos...but that his premise is just so dishonest. He says it is because he wants the game to get better. I believe the real reason is it is his retribution for being shunned, ignored, and sent out to pasture by EA. His big plans and dreams of working with and for EA got canned.
    C

    Wow that’s a long time to hold a grudge. I’ve held off my judgement on Moody’s underlying intentions until he can’t keep complaining about the same stuff year after year after year. If EA were to clean up some of the forever lingering problems that are complained about every year and really started to make a meaningful improvement to their game and Moody is still attack them, then you could definitely make the case it’s personal. But until then, we may never know.
    tuckermaine
    Don’t know if anyone here follows Ryanmooody on You Tube. He has a account on Twitter but I’m not on Twitter. But he posts his interaction with Ea.
    After reading and listening to his posts and his You Tube channel and seeing first hand the reactions by leading Devs and how close minded -childlike and pompous they are, I now can see how this series has despite better technology ect has gotten worse.
    PS5 will make no difference with EAs mindset if I may call it that...
    Sales revenue is important to any company..but their response to the obvious flaws in this game tells me all I have to know.
    Sad...

    I've seen Ryan Moody's videos and it's kind of overkill IMO. I get he has an issue with Madden and he makes valid points; but it's hard for me to believe that he is doing this for the sake of getting EA to make a better game. As bad as he says it is he'll prolly buy it next year lol...
    mtmetcalfe
    Wow that’s a long time to hold a grudge. I’ve held off my judgement on Moody’s underlying intentions until he can’t keep complaining about the same stuff year after year after year. If EA were to clean up some of the forever lingering problems that are complained about every year and really started to make a meaningful improvement to their game and Moody is still attack them, then you could definitely make the case it’s personal. But until then, we may never know.

    Here is my take.
    We've had suggestions at OS and other YTbers have had videos and evidence. Even things that Simftball suggested when he was a game changer(don't know if he still is) didn't get in the game for 3 or 4 years and I'm sure things they suggested aren't still in the game.
    It's been obvious looking at the past 15 years that with the higher ups and marketing making game decisions, some of the things that the sim community wants fixed or added is not a high priority for people that are making the decisions.
    It's similar to barking up the wrong tree because the developers are getting their paychecks from the higher ups and decision makers.
    Now, we are looking at least 20 years with no changes in site.
    I too think Moody has an agenda and is probably more concerned with profiting off his channel than getting Madden truly fixed. Also, most of his videos are not from him but his viewers. If he truly wanted a better madden than he should probably balance out positive and negative videos instead of just showing a horrendous broken part of a play in practice mode.
    We eventually just need to understand Madden is Madden and not much is going to change anytime soon. The executives are making money, the owners are making money and as long as both are nothing will change.
    Of course people also said WB would never release the snyder cut. And now there is a push for the ayer cut of suicide squad. So I guess anything is possible. Just need to have the right athlete, celebrity or such get some momentum behind it.
    I havent played a ton of Madden the past few years mostly because I'm older and have other things going on. But I've been playing some more now with the quarantine and such. The game play is what it is. I've had some fun playing but the lack of immersion in franchise mode just makes it hard to get through an entire season.
    roadman
    Here is my take.
    We've had suggestions at OS and other YTbers have had videos and evidence. Even things that Simftball suggested when he was a game changer(don't know if he still is) didn't get in the game for 3 or 4 years and I'm sure things they suggested aren't still in the game.
    It's been obvious looking at the past 15 years that with the higher ups and marketing making game decisions, some of the things that the sim community wants fixed or added is not a high priority for people that are making the decisions.
    It's similar to barking up the wrong tree because the developers are getting their paychecks from the higher ups and decision makers.
    Now, we are looking at least 20 years with no changes in site.

    I certainly understand people like Sim growing tired of the broken record bit. But I also appreciate not giving up on putting words to some people’s frustrations in a larger sense. I don’t see a problem with something being continually being pointed out until it actually is addressed.
    Really the only tree that’s worth barking at is the cutting off the revenue. It’s been repeated at nauseam but if people stopping buying the game then changes would be made. Me included!
    The funny thing is that we all pretty much want the same thing.
    I think competition is good for creative nature and working hard to bring a quality product. I just don't understand why madden can't give the level of customization and depth of 2k and the show.
    capa
    He says it is because he wants the game to get better.

    For the most part, that whole subset of the community doesn't want the game to be better, they just want to be able to claim that they're the reason the game gets fixed or gets better while simultaneously hoping it dies.
    Pointing out flaws is a perfectly fine and reasonable thing to do but when you blow things up and constantly treat every little thing like it's a game breaking flaw with the sole intent being to trash the game, the devs or EA without any kind of intent to create discussion, provide feedback or a solution, etc. it's eventually going to start to fall on deaf ears. How you choose to use your voice is often just as important as what you have to say which is why so many people end up yelling into the void.
    Blzer
    Check out 2003 in baseball video games:
    MVP Baseball 2003
    World Series Baseball 2K3
    All Star Baseball 2004
    High Heat Major League Baseball 2004
    MLB 2004
    MLB Inside Pitch 2003
    MLB SlugFest 20-04
    EDIT: I screwed the list up a bit. Backyard Baseball 2003 and Home Run King came out the year before.
    I owned and played five of these at one point. Having options and competition was such a delight, and developers definitely feed off each other. Hell, when Ramone Russell toured me through San Diego Studios, I saw an employee playing MLB 2K11 on a monitor specifically to get insight on what does and doesn't make that game tick, and how The Show could benefit. You see inspirations from other games all over the place (most for better, but still some for worse for the hardcore consumer).

    Thats crazy lol. And I'd imagine that how it was for almost of the major sports. Those were the days. I remember my late teen years a decade ago having a job and buying a lot of different football games for the PS2 just to go back see what was available then. I miss having those options to now have 1-2 licensed option for most of the sports
    I'd imagine we will hear about the Owners voting results later today. So possibly within next 5 hours(12pm eastern now)
    Yep, the 2002-2004 time range was the pinnacle of video games for me (I predate Atari). In addition to multiple titles for each sport, it was before online totally took over.
    Why wouldn't they?
    Guaranteed, huge payout, and the owners do absolutely nothing. Can't really blame them for holding their hand out and happily depositing the checks.
    Incredibly disheartening for fans though.
    "Per source, NFL owners just voted to approve an extension of their deal with Electronic Arts. This one will run through the 2025 season (and through 2026 if revenue markers are hit).
    So when it comes to that kind of game, it'll be Madden for a while."
    illwill10
    "Per source, NFL owners just voted to approve an extension of their deal with Electronic Arts. This one will run through the 2025 season (and through 2026 if revenue markers are hit).
    So when it comes to that kind of game, it'll be Madden for a while."

    I wish there was a requirement that the title name has to be somebody who is featured in the game. Since John Madden stopped voicing himself after Madden NFL 2009, they should have to put in a different name, like when EA switched from Tiger Woods to Rory McIlroy.
    My vote for this year's title is Gaudin NFL 21! :signball:
    "BREAKING: Electronic Arts signs five-year, $2 Billion extension to publish “Madden” through 2026 season https://t.co/w4JVKUNibL"
    A lot more than what 2k paid for it's renewal of the NBA license for 7yrs 1.1 billion.
    Cardot
    Yep, the 2002-2004 time range was the pinnacle of video games for me (I predate Atari). In addition to multiple titles for each sport, it was before online totally took over.

    Totally agree. I was in my mid 20s at that point. Old enough to totally appreciate it, and to afford to buy the games that I wanted, and young enough to game as much as I wanted, with my only real responsibility going to work five days a week.
    I spent untold hours playing sports video games, and untold more talking about them online on the major precursors to this board.
    illwill10
    "BREAKING: Electronic Arts signs five-year, $2 Billion extension to publish “Madden” through 2026 season https://t.co/w4JVKUNibL"
    A lot more than what 2k paid for it's renewal of the NBA license for 7yrs 1.1 billion.

    2K's license isn't exclusive of course, but they're in an advantageous position of being able to pay much less for the NBA license while having defacto exclusivity anyway.
    Madden08PCgmr
    Why wouldn't they?
    Guaranteed, huge payout, and the owners do absolutely nothing. Can't really blame them for holding their hand out and happily depositing the checks.
    Incredibly disheartening for fans though.
    I mean, it's simple business. I would question the NFL if they didn't get an extention. On a business level, the company is profiting very well of the product, why change anything.
    Sent from my SM-G973U using Operation Sports mobile app
    This partnership will also focus on design, visualization and development innovations to grow and deepen the world of Madden NFL, impacting how it plays and feels, and how players connect to the world of the NFL as it happens.”
    mmmm?
    NFL officially extends Madden deal with EA Sports
    NFL chief media and business officer Brian Rolapp explained during a post-meeting conference call with reporters that the process was opened up to multiple companies, given the changes that have been made in how games are distributed and played since the last time the deal was done.
    “EA made the most compelling case,” Rolapp said, “and beat out the competition pretty soundly.”
    Rolapp said that “all models” were considered, including granting licenses to multiple companies, but that EA Sports had a strong “plan of innovation for the next handful of years,” and that EA Sports was strongly pushing exclusivity as part of the continued arrangement.
    illwill10
    "BREAKING: Electronic Arts signs five-year, $2 Billion extension to publish “Madden” through 2026 season https://t.co/w4JVKUNibL"
    A lot more than what 2k paid for it's renewal of the NBA license for 7yrs 1.1 billion.

    This is another reason why I just don't see 2K caring as much about the NFL license. 2K is paying roughly half for the NBA on a longer deal and outselling Madden. And this is their new deal, the old one was even more favorable. I imagine 2K would if they could, but is this NFL deal even worth it financially when you consider what they are doing with the NBA? I think 2k and the NFL see whatever 2K is doing as small potatoes.
    scagwi
    "Strong plan for innovation"
    :y5::lol:
    This is EA we are talking about..

    VR is likely a part of it, along with some form of social media ties I'm sure.
    Blzer
    VR is likely a part of it, along with some form of social media ties I'm sure.

    I hope not, VR makes me super sick. Never get motion sickness until that thing gets strapped to my head. Jealous of the people that can use it.
    roadman
    This partnership will also focus on design, visualization and development innovations to grow and deepen the world of Madden NFL, impacting how it plays and feels, and how players connect to the world of the NFL as it happens.”
    mmmm?

    One obvious way that the NFL and EA might do this in a branded way would be to strengthen their partnership with Amazon and surface football analytics within Madden's UI and under Amazon's sponsored branding.
    I know Amazon loves their ridiculous completion probability chance (which I still don't understand, and I consider myself pretty up on advanced stats for a layman), but more practically I think we might see stuff like 4th down go-for-it vs punt math and play call success rate stuff surface up to users to help them improve their own Madden tactics.
    This could just be me wishing for more advanced stats / analysis within the game, though.
    jfsolo
    2K's license isn't exclusive of course, but they're in an advantageous position of being able to pay much less for the NBA license while having defacto exclusivity anyway.

    Madden's includes $500m in marketing, I wonder what 2k spends on that, because it's probably in the same ballpark.
    RubberSoul
    This makes me more sad than it should. Amazing we will be 20+ years out from original exclusivity deal with EA with no end in sight. I actually preferred Madden back in the day to NFL 2K but things have gotten really really stale to say the least with Madden.
    If we still have lifeless sidelines next gen I will not buy anymore Maddens as over-reactionary as that sounds. No excuse with the power of next gen to not have realistic sidelines and crowd.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    They will keep doing these bad games, because they have exclusive rights.
    scagwi
    "Strong plan for innovation"
    :y5::lol:
    This is EA we are talking about..

    Are you saying that moving your punter to QB, your Tackle to the WR position and never passing isn't innovation? EA is evolving the game before our eyes.
    Cardot
    Are you saying that moving your punter to QB, your Tackle to the WR position and never passing isn't innovation? EA is evolving the game before our eyes.

    Serious questions: Do you play MUT Sal Cap? If not, why does it matter to you what a winning Sal Cap team/strategy looks like?
    stinkubus
    Serious questions: Do you play MUT Sal Cap? If not, why does it matter to you what a winning Sal Cap team/strategy looks like?

    Because the game shouldn't be exploited like that. I'm guessing punters are twentyfold cheaper than quarterbacks.
    EDIT: Okay, I just caught wind of what happened since he only ran the ball. That's probably an even worse exploitation.
    stinkubus
    Serious questions: Do you play MUT Sal Cap? If not, why does it matter to you what a winning Sal Cap team/strategy looks like?

    Here's the reason. The guys who do that stuff are just 'playing Madden'. They aren't trying to play football but are trying to "game" the game. Now, I could give two craps about what others do. But here's the issue....
    EA listens to the H2H crowd. EA adjusts the game around the demands of the H2H crowd. Even with comp mode in place, they still make changes that have direct impacts on the game in the other modes.
    So, they make changes to accommodate people who aren't interested in playing football (but want to "play Madden") that have direct impacts on people that DO want to play football.
    THIS is what ticks me off...my enjoyment of a game is now being directly impacted by others...
    And honestly...I could care less about having a "die hard sim" like some others here. But I DO want something that is a believable facsimile of football and the guys who do that stuff directly affect the design and tuning of the game that belie that goal....
    JoshC1977
    Here's the reason. The guys who do that stuff are just 'playing Madden'. They aren't trying to play football but are trying to "game" the game. Now, I could give two craps about what others do. But here's the issue....
    EA listens to the H2H crowd. EA adjusts the game around the demands of the H2H crowd. Even with comp mode in place, they still make changes that have direct impacts on the game in the other modes.
    So, they make changes to accommodate people who aren't interested in playing football (but want to "play Madden") that have direct impacts on people that DO want to play football.
    THIS is what ticks me off...my enjoyment of a game is now being directly impacted by others...
    And honestly...I could care less about having a "die hard sim" like some others here. But I DO want something that is a believable facsimile of football and the guys who do that stuff directly affect the design and tuning of the game that belie that goal....

    Perfectly stated.
    I don't watch these esports tourney's and I have no desire to because they are playing for money and will do whatever it takes(exploit) to win.
    My irritation comes from separating the modes a few years ago and whatever enhancements the MUT area receives spills over to sim mode.
    No offense to anyone here, but I blame all the people who preorder and buy Madden mut every yr. I'm in my 40s, played video games since I was 8 yrs old. The idea of throwing money away for a Virtua player, to build a complete team with my cash, is just insane. $60 is already more than I'll spend on any game that isn't all time great. I haven't purchased Madden for over $19.99 in 5+ yrs.
    I can't believe people support mediocre games. It only hurts you in the end no matter how much you "need" your football game fix.
    Imagine in 2002 we had NFL Fever, Quarterbacks Club, Madden, 2k sports, and I believe there was one more. Now stuck with the same game, that plays the same way with more paint on top, and the only way to stop it is to keep your money in your pocket!
    Sorry I got a little heated there, just frustrated that I've been stuck with only a Madden option for what will be over 20 yrs by the time this deals done. This is a monopoly IMO. At least 2k allows EA, others to try a make a NBA game.
    BigDaddyHolmes
    No offense to anyone here, but I blame all the people who preorder and buy Madden mut every yr. I'm in my 40s, played video games since I was 8 yrs old. The idea of throwing money away for a Virtua player, to build a complete team with my cash, is just insane. $60 is already more than I'll spend on any game that isn't all time great. I haven't purchased Madden for over $19.99 in 5+ yrs.
    I can't believe people support mediocre games. It only hurts you in the end no matter how much you "need" your football game fix.
    Imagine in 2002 we had NFL Fever, Quarterbacks Club, Madden, 2k sports, and I believe there was one more. Now stuck with the same game, that plays the same way with more paint on top, and the only way to stop it is to keep your money in your pocket!
    Sorry I got a little heated there, just frustrated that I've been stuck with only a Madden option for what will be over 20 yrs by the time this deals done. This is a monopoly IMO. At least 2k allows EA, others to try a make a NBA game.

    People who run out and buy every release have lost the right to complain. Period.
    But having the old die hards take a pass doesn't mean much. Thanks to all the soccer moms who buy the game so their kid isn't left out.
    I agree with you, for the most part. With competition, fans wouldn't be in this situation. One company or another would capitalize on what their competition had missed.
    .. I don't even know where to begin with MUT and the E-sports craze. All I can do is say props to EA for their insane success on those platforms. But I COULD NOT POSSIBLY be LESS interested in that :crap:
    Its funny though, even though I know I am in the minority, it sure doesn't feel like it, coming to places like this.
    BigDaddyHolmes
    No offense to anyone here, but I blame all the people who preorder and buy Madden mut every yr. I'm in my 40s, played video games since I was 8 yrs old. The idea of throwing money away for a Virtua player, to build a complete team with my cash, is just insane. $60 is already more than I'll spend on any game that isn't all time great. I haven't purchased Madden for over $19.99 in 5+ yrs.
    I can't believe people support mediocre games. It only hurts you in the end no matter how much you "need" your football game fix.
    Imagine in 2002 we had NFL Fever, Quarterbacks Club, Madden, 2k sports, and I believe there was one more. Now stuck with the same game, that plays the same way with more paint on top, and the only way to stop it is to keep your money in your pocket!

    If people are buying ANY game that they are not enamored with, I agree...that doesn't make sense. I stopped purchasing non-franchise mode oriented sports titles (like NBA 2k and NHL; FIFA will go on that 'do not buy' list for next year) for that same reason. Those series all have major issues that have significant impacts on MY ability to enjoy the game...so, I don't buy them.
    That said, I have no qualms with the NFL selecting one vendor for its 'sim style' video game - it's like a restaurant choosing to only serve Coke products.
    Madden08PCgmr
    People who run out and buy every release have lost the right to complain. Period.
    But having the old die hards take a pass doesn't mean much. Thanks to all the soccer moms who buy the game so their kid isn't left out.
    I agree with you, for the most part. With competition, fans wouldn't be in this situation. One company or another would capitalize on what their competition had missed.
    .. I don't even know where to begin with MUT and the E-sports craze. All I can do is say props to EA for their insane success on those platforms. But I COULD NOT POSSIBLY be LESS interested in that :crap:
    Its funny though, even though I know I am in the minority, it sure doesn't feel like it, coming to places like this.

    I agree with you, and that's the heart of why the exclusivity is such a big problem. If Madden wasn't the ONLY game, then it wouldn't matter what they do. I would just ignore it like I do genres of games that I don't play. And its likely that someone other than EA would make a NFL game that would cater to the kind of experience that I do want. It might be smaller and sell fewer copies, but that would be completely fine with me.
    But this STOPS that from being a reality, and thats the problem. So as long as EA and the NFL prevent the game that I want from being made by someone else, all I'm left to do is complain about what Madden isn't. And because its so important to me, I'm not going to stop.

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