NBA 2K18
NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (10-31)
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Mike Stauffer (@2KStauff) has sent us the NBA 2K18 roster update details for today.
In today’s update most of the players in the league saw an adjustment to their attributes. Below is a list of players whose OVR changed as a result of the adjustments:
Atlanta Hawks
- Dennis Schroder: 80 OVR (+1)
- Marco Belinelli: 77 OVR (+3)
- John Collins: 77 OVR (+4)
- Dewayne Dedmon: 75 OVR (-2)
- Ersan Ilyasova: 74 OVR (-1)
- Malcolm Delaney: 72 OVR (-2)
Brooklyn Nets
- D’Angelo Russell: 81 OVR (+1)
- Rondae Hollis-Jefferson: 78 OVR (+3)
- DeMarre Carroll: 77 OVR (+2)
- Spencer Dinwiddie: 76 OVR (+3)
Boston Celtics
- Al Horford: 84 OVR (+1)
- Jayson Tatum: 79 OVR (+2)
- Marcus Smart: 78 OVR (-1)
- Jaylen Brown: 77 OVR (+1)
- Terry Rozier: 75 OVR (+1)
- Aron Baynes: 74 OVR (+1)
Charlotte Hornets
- Kemba Walker: 87 OVR (+1)
- Dwight Howard: 82 OVR (+1)
- Jeremy Lamb: 78 OVR (+3)
- Frank Kaminsky: 77 OVR (+1)
- Michael Kidd-Gilchrist: 76 OVR (-1)
- Cody Zeller: 76 OVR (-1)
- Marvin Williams: 75 OVR (-1)
- Malik Monk: 73 OVR (-2)
Chicago Bulls
- Robin Lopez: 78 OVR (+2)
- Lauri Markkanen: 77 OVR (+2)
- Jerian Grant: 73 OVR (-1)
- Paul Zipser: 73 OVR (+2)
Cleveland Cavaliers
- Dwyane Wade: 80 OVR (-2)
- Jae Crowder: 79 OVR (-1)
- Tristan Thompson: 76 OVR (-2)
- Jeff Green: 75 OVR (+2)
- Kyle Korver: 75 OVR (+1)
- J.R. Smith: 73 OVR (-2)
Dallas Mavericks
- Harrison Barnes: 80 OVR (-1)
- Dirk Nowitzki: 77 OVR (-3)
- J.J. Barea: 77 OVR (+1)
- Yogi Ferrell: 75 OVR (+1)
Denver Nuggets
- Nikola Jokic: 87 OVR (-1)
- Paul Millsap: 86 OVR (-1)
- Will Barton: 78 OVR (+1)
- Wilson Chandler: 76 OVR (-3)
- Jamal Murray: 75 OVR (-2)
- Emmanuel Mudiay: 74 OVR (+1)
Detroit Pistons
- Tobias Harris: 82 OVR (+4)
- Reggie Jackson: 80 OVR (+3)
- Langston Galloway: 75 OVR (+2)
- Jon Leuer: 74 OVR (-1)
Golden State Warriors
- Draymond Green: 87 OVR (-1)
- Andre Iguodala: 78 OVR (-1)
- Zaza Pachulia: 75 OVR (-1)
- Jordan Bell: 73 OVR (+3)
- Kevon Looney: 71 OVR (+1)
Houston Rockets
- James Harden: 94 OVR (-1)
- Eric Gordon: 82 OVR (+2)
- Clint Capela: 82 OVR (+3)
- Trevor Ariza: 76 OVR (-2)
- Luc Mbah a Moute: 75 OVR (-1)
Indiana Pacers
- Victor Oladipo: 84 OVR (+5)
- Darren Collison: 79 OVR (+1)
- Domantas Sabonis: 76 OVR (+4)
- Bojan Bogdanovic: 75 OVR (-2)
- Lance Stephenson: 72 OVR (-3)
Los Angeles Clippers
- Blake Griffin: 89 OVR (+2)
- Patrick Beverley: 80 OVR (+1)
- Danilo Gallinari: 79 OVR (-2)
- Austin Rivers: 78 OVR (-2)
Los Angeles Lakers
- Brook Lopez: 82 OVR (-2)
- Larry Nance Jr.: 78 OVR (+1)
- Jordan Clarkson: 78 OVR (+1)
- Brandon Ingram: 77 OVR (+1)
- Julius Randle: 76 OVR (-2)
- Kyle Kuzma: 76 OVR (+4)
Memphis Grizzlies
- Marc Gasol: 90 OVR (+1)
- Tyreke Evans: 78 OVR (+1)
- Chandler Parsons: 76 OVR (+2)
- James Ennis: 74 OVR (+2)
- Jarell Martin: 73 OVR (+1)
- Dillon Brooks: 71 OVR (+3)
- Andrew Harrison: 70 OVR (-2)
Miami Heat
- James Johnson: 80 OVR (+1)
- Dion Waiters: 79 OVR (-1)
- Kelly Olynyk: 76 OVR (+1)
- Tyler Johnson: 75 OVR (-2)
- Justise Winslow: 74 OVR (-2)
- Jordan Mickey: 72 OVR (+1)
Milwaukee Bucks
- Giannis Antetokounmpo: 94 OVR (+3)
- Malcolm Brogdon: 80 OVR (+2)
- Greg Monroe: 78 OVR (-2)
- Mirza Teletovic: 74 OVR (+1)
- Thon Maker: 74 OVR (-1)
Minnesota Timberwolves
- Jimmy Butler: 89 OVR (-1)
- Andrew Wiggins: 85 OVR (-1)
- Taj Gibson: 75 OVR (-1)
- Nemanja Bjelica: 74 OVR (+2)
- Gorgui Dieng: 74 OVR (-2)
- Shabazz Muhammad: 74 OVR (-1)
New Orleans Pelicans
- DeMarcus Cousins: 93 OVR (+1)
- Jrue Holiday: 79 OVR (-1)
- Tony Allen: 76 OVR (-2)
New York Knicks
- Kristaps Porzingis: 88 OVR (+2)
- Enes Kanter: 81 OVR (+1)
- Tim Hardaway Jr.: 78 OVR (-2)
- Ramon Sessions: 72 OVR (-1)
Oklahoma City Thunder
- Paul George: 90 OVR (-1)
- Carmelo Anthony: 85 OVR (+1)
- Steven Adams: 83 OVR (+1)
- Andre Roberson: 75 OVR (-1)
- Patrick Patterson: 74 OVR (-1)
- Jerami Grant: 74 OVR (+1)
- Alex Abrines: 73 OVR (-1)
Orlando Magic
- Nikola Vucevic: 83 OVR (+3)
- Evan Fournier: 82 OVR (+4)
- Aaron Gordon: 80 OVR (+2)
- Jonathon Simmons: 77 OVR (+2)
- D.J. Augustin: 75 OVR (+2)
- Shelvin Mack: 74 OVR (+1)
- Terrence Ross: 74 OVR (-1)
Philadelphia 76ers
- Ben Simmons: 81 OVR (+2)
- Robert Covington: 79 OVR (+1)
- J.J. Redick: 78 OVR (-1)
- Dario Saric: 77 OVR (-1)
- Markelle Fultz: 77 OVR (-3)
- Jerryd Bayless: 74 OVR (+1)
Phoenix Suns
- Devin Booker: 86 OVR (+1)
- T.J. Warren: 77 OVR (-1)
- Josh Jackson: 76 OVR (-2)
- Alex Len: 75 OVR (+2)
- Marquese Chriss: 74 OVR (-2)
- Mike James: 74 OVR (+5)
Portland Trail Blazers
- C.J. McCollum: 87 OVR (+1)
- Jusuf Nurkic: 77 OVR (-2)
- Ed Davis: 75 OVR (+3)
- Evan Turner: 75 OVR (+1)
- Al-Farouq Aminu: 75 OVR (+2)
- Maurice Harkless: 73 OVR (-1)
- Pat Connaughton: 72 OVR (+2)
San Antonio Spurs
- LaMarcus Aldridge: 86 OVR (+1)
- Danny Green: 77 OVR (+1)
- Manu Ginobili: 75 OVR (-1)
- Patrick Mills: 75 OVR (-2)
- Dejounte Murray: 75 OVR (+2)
- Kyle Anderson: 74 OVR (+1)
Sacramento Kings
- George Hill: 79 OVR (-3)
- Zach Randolph: 78 OVR (-2)
- De’Aaron Fox: 78 OVR (+1)
- Skal Labissiere: 77 OVR (+1)
- Willie Cauley-Stein: 77 OVR (+1)
- Buddy Hield: 76 OVR (-1)
- Bogdan Bogdanovic: 75 OVR (+1)
Toronto Raptors
- Kyle Lowry: 84 OVR (-3)
- Jakob Poeltl: 75 OVR (+3)
- Pascal Siakam: 75 OVR (+3)
- Norman Powell: 74 OVR (-1)
- OG Anunoby: 72 OVR (+1)
Utah Jazz
- Rudy Gobert: 86 OVR (-2)
- Rodney Hood: 79 OVR (+1)
- Joe Ingles: 79 OVR (+1)
- Derrick Favors: 77 OVR (-1)
- Joe Johnson: 75 OVR (-1)
- Donovan Mitchell: 74 OVR (-1)
Washington Wizards
- Otto Porter: 83 OVR (+3)
- Marcin Gortat: 79 OVR (+1)
- Kelly Oubre Jr.: 75 OVR (+1)
- Mike Scott: 73 OVR (+1)
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Wish we had an option to just remove pictures altogether and use in-game generated models.
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In mylg you can manually edit, but it wont update automatically.
They dropped his shooting ratings.
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Probably not by enough if he has the same overall. Could you pull his shooting ratings for me if you have the chance?
Id like to know this too, IMO the tendencies is what needs updating. They basically already have every player overalls inflated:crazy: Outside of a few guys, here and there who arent on big market or popular teams that is. I do hope the boosted Victor Olidipo, guy is 1 of the faster players in the game, but you wouldnt know it by the speed ratings they gave him, so I hope they bump that up atleast for him.
75, 73, 72 for open, contested, and moving 3pt respectively. I think his open was at or over 80 before and his contest and moving were in the high 70s. His mid ratings look similar (70 on average). They upped his rebound ratings significantly it seems.
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He’s a starting PG with an 8.9 PER and 38% TS
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He should be seeing he just had 6 and 10
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He’s a starting PG with an 8.9 PER and 38% TS
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Kerry Kittles and K Mart defense are so underrated. I don't want to post anymore videos. But I'm sticking to this one until it's changed. There is no way in hell they can be rated at low on a defensive team.
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He’s a starting PG with an 8.9 PER and 38% TS
He's also a rookie and has only played in 6 games. I don't see the point in raising or lowering rookies at all for the first month of the season unless they're injured, and even then it's pretty silly. They just haven't played enough to show us if they're playing over their heads or just having a rough start to a career.
Well that can be said about giving rookies high rating to start with , Fultz and Lonzo are the first rookies to get an 80 overall in years . So it’s safe to say they shouldn’t be rated so high anyway . Just because they’re a rookie doesn’t excuse them , if they’re playing well they should be rewarded and if they aren’t then so on.
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Same can be said about any other player. Why drop the ratings of proven All-NBA players like Gobert and Lowry after 6 games when they have heaps of real evidence to show that they're better than what they've showed so far?
Wish we had an option to just remove pictures altogether and use in-game generated models.
The real pictures are better and make the game look more professional. They need to stop their laziness and take the time to give all the players accurate pictures.
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80 is where Lavar should've been for his mouth.
I no understand all these words you say. We all know the only thing that matters is Overalls. It's the single driving force behind how many points players score duh!
Smh
Tattoos require scans. Hair is debatable.
PS4
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Um yes he is. 2k needs to figure the Knicks roster out.
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Shooting isn’t everything. He’s still averaging 7 rebounds and 7 assists, and it’s early season.
Lowry went from averaging 20 PPG last year to 12 PPG this year
Lowry went from averaging 20 PPG last year to 12 PPG this year
But Lonzo is one of the worst offensive pg’s in the league right now lol
Like his FG% and 3pt% are terrible and he’s not a strong defender so all he doing is playmaking and rebounding .
Plus since you say that Lowry is averaging 7 APG and nearly 6 boards a game no that far off from Lonzo and he’s shooting better from the field , 3, FT , less turnovers and is a better defender.
Like his FG% and 3pt% are terrible and he’s not a strong defender so all he doing is playmaking and rebounding .
Plus since you say that Lowry is averaging 7 APG and nearly 6 boards a game no that far off from Lonzo and he’s shooting better from the field , 3, FT , less turnovers and is a better defender.
So his shooting should be lowered...and it was.
Comparing to Lowry this season.
Lonzo is...comparable(small difference in stats) defensive rebounder, better offensive rebounder so a better rebounder overall; comparable/slightly worse in assists (29.2 to Lowry's 31.6 as%); better in steals, blocks. Worse in TOV% while on SAME usg%.
Kyle Lowry has 0.3 DWS while Lonzo has .4 so Lonzo is slightly better defender (also has 2.1 DPMN to Lowry's 1.3). VORP for Lonzo is .1 while for Lowry is .2
So Lowry is slightly better passer, protects the ball better and shoots the ball better. Ball is better defender, rebounder. So the difference in '4' overall ratings is guaranteed since the overall is skewed towards offensive end.
Don't come at me with that ish that Lonzo is not at least average defender.
My main problem with this is he was just overrated in the game in general, I really wonder what other ratings dictate this overall from falling.
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I agree that real pictures would be better, but if they aren't going to update them then we should get the OPTION to remove the pictures and use in-game player models.
My main problem with this is he was just overrated in the game in general, I really wonder what other ratings dictate this overall from falling.
But Lonzo is showing better defense that advertised so they push that a bit higher but also lower offensive shooting stats. What is problem? He is actually below average PG in the roster and has average perimeter defender stats. So I guess I see nothing wrong.
The question should be why in the hell does Randle has all of his defensive ratings in the 50s/60s as well as poor lateral movement. Shove that ish to 60/70s for now. If he has longer success with being a defensive stalwart that he is last 5 games then up his defensive consistency and iron the ratings a bit.
The question should be why in the hell does Randle has all of his defensive ratings in the 50s/60s as well as poor lateral movement. Shove that ish to 60/70s for now. If he has longer success with being a defensive stalwart that he is last 5 games then up his defensive consistency and iron the ratings a bit.
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No it’s not don’t put words in my mouth lol I said nothing about having daily; every two weeks updates are fine with me . This was the first ratings change of the season that started 2 weeks ago from yesterday. I’m just trying to figure out tho Lonzo got his shooting numbers dropped I’m trying to understand how his overall didn’t budge I want to know what else is factored in.
But I’ll guess see how this looks in December
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He was a 91 they put him down. Idk why?
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Like his FG% and 3pt% are terrible and he’s not a strong defender so all he doing is playmaking and rebounding .
Plus since you say that Lowry is averaging 7 APG and nearly 6 boards a game no that far off from Lonzo and he’s shooting better from the field , 3, FT , less turnovers and is a better defender.
Lowry is still rated higher than Lonzo. It's not like they were just given the same rating.
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Come on man lets be honest with ourselves.
But I’ll guess see how this looks in December
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http://thereal2kinsider.blogspot.com/2017/11/official-nba-2k18-player-ratings.html
Posted and updated to reflect this update.
More succinctly:
Jimmy Butler
2017: 25.1 PER, 59 TS%, 25 AST%, 26 USG%
2018: 14.5 PER, 54 TS%, 18 AST%, 20 USG%
It seems that potentials have not been touched. Even for players that have had their rating increased. So now, some of them have already reached their potential despite still being in their early 20s.
Jimmy Butler
2017: 25.1 PER, 59 TS%, 25 AST%, 26 USG%
2018: 14.5 PER, 54 TS%, 18 AST%, 20 USG%
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They are rating these rookies on how they are currently playing. Why wait an extra month to lower a guy that’s not playing very good? Lower him now and if he starts improving next month? Just raise him again! I don’t understand people saying 2k should wait to making rating changes. They should happen about every five games a team plays to keep the game up to date with the current nba
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We're talking about a 1-point decrease in Overall rating. Stop.
Only reason I brought up Lowry/Gobert was to question the logic of dropping the ratings of proven players harder than those of rookies.
And his rating is dropped? Lol.
I’m starting to think ratings are based off who’s starting versus a players actual strengths.
Is this really so hard to research?
John Collins
21.7 PER (2nd on team)
56 TS% (2nd on team)
24.0 USG% (3rd on team)
14.6 ORB% (1st on team, 2X better than next player)
24.1 DRB% (2nd on team)
3.8 BLK% (1st on team)
Player plays well above expectation, gets recognition, people start losing their minds.
But Lonzo rightfully got his shooting stats lowered and his defense/rebounding increased thus staying put as far as overall goes. Not to mention Intangibles plays a huge role in this. +-6 overall ratings intangibles can move. 97 rated LeBron wioth 98 intangibles is actually 91 LeBron with 25 intangibles. But they are same player. Would you be 'okay' with lowering overall of a player by just downgrading their intangibles rating?
And his rating is dropped? Lol.
I’m starting to think ratings are based off who’s starting versus a players actual strengths.
This has been known for awhile now. Most OVR do not correlate with a player's actual production.
Instead this change is largely to ensure that Larry Nance starts. The fact that Randle is only playing 19 MPG certainly doesn't help.
For what it's worth, I definitely do not agree with Randle's decrease. 2K's ratings/roster are progressively sloppier over the past year.
Given the existence of the "Intangibles" attribute (existing solely as a modifier to OVR), the Overall rating no longer reflects "gameplay value" and is closer to reflecting "trade value" or franchise value.
Hence it actually minimizes the importance of specific attributes in OVR discussion and instead comes down to player role/standing in the league.
Smh
You know at times, I almost wish there wasnt overalls, and there was just tendencies, maybe then they would focus on what really needs tuning. But I suppose if there wasnt overalls, it would probably be difficult to edit rosters, to actually get the game to play better. I just wish 2k would update tendencies, and do a better job of adjusting coaches, to their real life counterparts, more than they adjusted overall ratings. I guess the good things is, I only play offline and they allow us to edit it all, but it sure would be nice if they just did this stuff right to begin with.
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....If you are arguing that 7 games of substantially diminished production doesn't warrant a change of any type, then I don't get why you're commenting here.
By definition, Butler is playing worse than he did last year. That is inarguable. The next 75 games will dictate whether he continues to drop or whether he salvages his value.
This is like trying to argue Giannis doesn't deserve a boost because it's "only" been 7 games.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11zbHMlmosvBK005EXPlDRC8s4JeGL0lWDousep6FkkU/edit?usp=sharing
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By definition, Butler is playing worse than he did last year. That is inarguable. The next 75 games will dictate whether he continues to drop or whether he salvages his value.
This is like trying to argue Giannis doesn't deserve a boost because it's "only" been 7 games.
The same thing you just said we should be bring down and up so many ratings. For instance, Lonzo Ball..... How did he pass the drop? Same for Gianni's has to apply to everyone else. I've everyone complaining about KAT. But he wasn't touched either.
You know what would of made sense to drop Rashid in 6-7 games would of been tendencies. Maybe his touch rating.
I guess what I'm trying to say is. How could Jimmy Butler talent go down in 4 months? He's the same player. I would of given him 15-20 games.
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I guess what I'm trying to say is. How could Jimmy Butler talent go down in 4 months? He's the same player.
If Butler is taking a back seat to Andrew Wiggins and Jeff Teague then he is NOT the same player. Butler wouldn't be the first player in NBA history to look better as a first option.
90 OVR implies an MVP candidate. If you want to stick your head in the mountain of sand required to pretend Butler is anywhere near that right now, there isn't anything I or anyone else can say to convince you otherwise.
Can he turn it around? Obviously - we have 5 months. Doesn't change that Butler has played like an 80 and you're crying about him dropping down to 89.
Jamal Murray's got -2 from 77, but he's scoring 23.3 points per game with an 80.5% True Shooting Percentage in the last 3 games.
what a coincidence lol.
90 OVR implies an MVP candidate. If you want to stick your head in the mountain of sand required to pretend Butler is anywhere near that right now, there isn't anything I or anyone else can say to convince you otherwise.
Can he turn it around? Obviously - we have 5 months. Doesn't change that Butler has played like an 80 and you're crying about him dropping down to 89.
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Jamal Murray's got -2 from 77, but he's scoring 23.3 points per game with an 80.5% True Shooting Percentage in the last 3 games.
what a coincidence lol.
He shot 29% (and 2-21 3pt) in his first 5. He'll go back up easy enough.
Are you referring to someone specific?
Because isn't exactly a long list of NBA players whose PER dropped TEN points.
Also, I'm sure it's hard to replicate Jokic's game. But right now his passes are not good and his hands are poor. Both strengths IRL.
Just wanted to give my squad some love.
Because isn't exactly a long list of NBA players whose PER dropped TEN points.
Other people have brought players like Lonzo Ball to the table. But lets move on from this Rashidi. I'm ok with all this.
I will repeat this again thought. Kerry Kittles and KMart need increases.
Robert Covington:
13 players are shooting 7+ 3s per game this year, RoCo has the highest % among them shooting 48.2% from 3.
For reference, Klay Thompson has the 2nd highest % at 44.3%
Ben Simmons:
18.5 ppg 9.6 rpg 7.9 apg 1.5 spg 53% shooting
This is deserving of higher than an 81 IMO
Also, give this man some damn badges - his badges are laughably terrible, I understand he's a rookie, but he's been at an all star caliber level every single game this season.
His WORST statistical game has been 11 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists and 1 steal.
Robert Covington:
13 players are shooting 7+ 3s per game this year, RoCo has the highest % among them shooting 48.2% from 3.
For reference, Klay Thompson has the 2nd highest % at 44.3%
Ben Simmons:
18.5 ppg 9.6 rpg 7.9 apg 1.5 spg 53% shooting
This is deserving of higher than an 81 IMO
Also, give this man some damn badges - his badges are laughably terrible, I understand he's a rookie, but he's been at an all star caliber level every single game this season.
His WORST statistical game has been 11 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists and 1 steal.
But I was going to wait on this one. But I do think your right.
Rashid anything to throw at this one?
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John Collins
21.7 PER (2nd on team)
56 TS% (2nd on team)
24.0 USG% (3rd on team)
14.6 ORB% (1st on team, 2X better than next player)
24.1 DRB% (2nd on team)
3.8 BLK% (1st on team)
Player plays well above expectation, gets recognition, people start losing their minds.
Wow man, you are really taking some of these comments to heart!
Yes it is easy to research, and I have done some research too would you believe!?!
Collins at a 77 is too big a jump in my opinion, 75-76 would be more accurate. He's still fairly raw and even though as you pointed out he does things like rebounding exceptionally well, I feel 77 is slightly too kind after less than 10 games. Remember he is on a (lets be real), really poor Hawks team. It's not going to take a transcendent talent to out-board/block your teammates when your competing with Mike Muscala.
I also think that some more established players have been harshly treated, which is why I think a 77 is too kind for Collins at this point. For example, Justice Winslow has played over 100 NBA games and although he is still struggling with the 3, (probably still better than Collins), he contributes in so many ways that being bumped down to a 74 is harsh. He's averaging 50% from the field, 8.4 TRB and 1.9 AST per 36 as well as being a very good defender. (Check out this research!!!)
Is John Collins clearly a better basketball player than a Justice Winslow or Norman Powell as his rating would suggest? I'm not so sure, that is the point I was attempting to make.
Yes it is easy to research, and I have done some research too would you believe!?!
Collins at a 77 is too big a jump in my opinion, 75-76 would be more accurate. He's still fairly raw and even though as you pointed out he does things like rebounding exceptionally well, I feel 77 is slightly too kind after less than 10 games. Remember he is on a (lets be real), really poor Hawks team. It's not going to take a transcendent talent to out-board/block your teammates when your competing with Mike Muscala.
I also think that some more established players have been harshly treated, which is why I think a 77 is too kind for Collins at this point. For example, Justice Winslow has played over 100 NBA games and although he is still struggling with the 3, (probably still better than Collins), he contributes in so many ways that being bumped down to a 74 is harsh. He's averaging 50% from the field, 8.4 TRB and 1.9 AST per 36 as well as being a very good defender. (Check out this research!!!)
Is John Collins clearly a better basketball player than a Justice Winslow or Norman Powell as his rating would suggest? I'm not so sure, that is the point I was attempting to make.
As much as I've fought with Rashid of the years. He's doesn't mean to get personal. He just loves his roster making.
Just debate. A little back and forth doesn't hurt anyone. I don't any of us have been like "WTF!! WHY DID HE DROP HIS OVERALL RATING". More like "I wonder why they got dropped? I didn't expect that."
I don't anyone here is going HAM yet lol.
I'm going HAM over Kerry Kittles and KMart. This is no world where their defensive ratings should be that low. They had one of the best defense that year. FOR GOD SH..... I'm kidding about the caps. But seriously their ratings need to be looked at.
Someone finally posted a video of how bad KAT defense has been this season. It's germany but if you skip ahead you'll see the highlight or low.
I ended up lowering his intangibles to 25, upping his defense to low-mid 70s/high 60s and upping his lateral movement and rim protection. Also lowered his stamina to 77. Wound up with OVR 79. My bias may have upped his shot contest a bit too much.
Yes it is easy to research, and I have done some research too would you believe!?!
Collins at a 77 is too big a jump in my opinion, 75-76 would be more accurate. He's still fairly raw and even though as you pointed out he does things like rebounding exceptionally well, I feel 77 is slightly too kind after less than 10 games. Remember he is on a (lets be real), really poor Hawks team. It's not going to take a transcendent talent to out-board/block your teammates when your competing with Mike Muscala.
I also think that some more established players have been harshly treated, which is why I think a 77 is too kind for Collins at this point. For example, Justice Winslow has played over 100 NBA games and although he is still struggling with the 3, (probably still better than Collins), he contributes in so many ways that being bumped down to a 74 is harsh. He's averaging 50% from the field, 8.4 TRB and 1.9 AST per 36 as well as being a very good defender. (Check out this research!!!)
Is John Collins clearly a better basketball player than a Justice Winslow or Norman Powell as his rating would suggest? I'm not so sure, that is the point I was attempting to make.
Comparing a power forward/center to a shooting guard and small forward is silly.
Collins isn't competing with Mike Muscala for offensive boards and blocks. He's competing with the 5 players on the opposing team.
LOL these are the same strawman arguments people made when I was talking about Hassan Whiteside's production three years ago. LOL like how the hell does a big man stat pad offensive rebounds and blocks.
Based on his career contribution, Winslow was overrated entering the season. He has clear-cut weaknesses that he has yet to improve on in three years. It's not harsh - it's the reality of where he's at. You're talking about a wing who can't shoot in the pace and space era.
Given that Collins has had a better stretch of games than Winslow has had at ANY point in his career, I think it's a safe assumption.
Powell is shooting 35% like at what point do we stop throwing logic and results out the window? These fringe players are supposed to get pats on the butt when they don't perform?
I know.That is why I lowered it to 25 for MyLeague Randle so he is still below 80 at 79 but play more like himself IRL. His description is still 'tenacious rebounder' which sounds about right for me at least. Still not highly regarded in the NBA but will ask for big bucks. Which I might as well give to him.
Anyway. With upped rbd numbers and lowered shooting Lonzo plays like himself now. Cannot score except wide wide open and good rbd/ast stats with a block every other game. So it is realistic to have him at 80.
I find BroLo's 95ish Intangibles rating bit funny. He plays like an 85 player to me, has attributes of 75 rated but is rated 80. But all his other attributes are correct..more or less.
I ended up lowering his intangibles to 25, upping his defense to low-mid 70s/high 60s and upping his lateral movement and rim protection. Also lowered his stamina to 77. Wound up with OVR 79. My bias may have upped his shot contest a bit too much.
Right, lowering Randle for the sake of keeping Nance in the starting line up is a poor choice. Also Hart is a much better defender and shooter than 2K has given him credit for, would have liked to see him get a boost as well.
If that means lowering Ball I’m all for it, but you gotta respect the rest of the players.
He can't shoot from the outside, but he can do almost everything else to a good standard, which means I think rating him at a 74 is harsh. For example, Shot IQ at 44? Like I mentioned earlier he's averaging 50% from the field, for someone who can't shoot he must be taking good shots right? He's also averaging 6.7 DRB per 36, so a 56 defensive rebound rating is also much too low for my liking. 44 ORB is too low too as he is averaging a career-high 1.7 ORB per 36.
I would make some changes like this:
Shot IQ: 44 -> 68
DRB: 56 -> 66
ORB: 44 -> 50
I did a quick sim to the all-star break, Winslow was averaging 0.9 ORB, 3.9 DRB (both per 36) and 44% from the field. I hope this validates my point.
Powell hasn't shot the 3 well so far this season, but his assists numbers have vastly improved as well as his steals and blocks. Therefore his 3 should maybe take a hit, but all these categories should see an increase right? He has taken 23 3-pointers so far this season, if he makes 9 instead of 6 does he suddenly deserve to be a few ratings higher? His shot will start to fall, we have already seen guys like Jamal Murray and Bojan Bogdanovic have a big hit on their shooting ratings and suddenly they are hitting everything. I guess my point is, why overreact so early into the season?
I was just trying to show how players compare across the league, I could've chosen a PF/C or any other position, the point would still be the same.
Basically his Intangibles rating is buffed to compensate for his poor rebounding which would otherwise tank his OVR rating.
This was 2K's solution to their crappy OVR formula. Rather than readjust scales with regard to the desirable skillset of a modern player they just apply a bandaid to anyone who doesn't rate high enough.
I wouldn't exactly say it's a poor choice.
1. Realistically, Nance was a better player than Randle last season, which is why Randle lost the starting job in the first place.
2. Randle looks a lot better in a sixth man role dominating the ball against lesser defenders.
3. Randle was 72nd out of 77 PFs last year in DRPM. When we throw centers into the equation, he was 138th out of 146 big men in DRPM. The Lakers were the worst defense in the NBA last season, and Randle played the 3rd most minutes on the team.
Randle's block rate IS up, but it will take a lot more than 134 minutes worth of data points against second units to realistically gauge whether he's improved or not on that end.
The Lakers, for their part, are 6th in defense at the moment, but Nance's move to the starting lineup and Randle only playing 19 MPG is surely part of that equation.
A player who averages 9 points per 36 minutes on 40% shooting shouldn't exactly have a high Shot IQ. Those are the career numbers of Dennis Rodman...... if Rodman was 12% worse from the field.
Bruh. He's taken 48 shots. Probably 36 at the time of data submission. He shot 35% last season. Not from 3pt range. From the field. Like, do you understand how historically bad that is?
Winslow is rebounding better than last season. That doesn't make him a starting caliber player. He's backing up Josh Richardson for a reason.
A 0.3% increase in steal rate doesn't exactly cover the gap for a 10 point decrease in TS%.
Dropping a player 1-2 OVR isn't "overreacting". If Jimmy Butler suddenly got dropped to the 80 OVR he is playing like, THAT would be overreacting. Over 100 players saw their OVR ratings change. Numerous others surely had attribute adjustments that did not affect their OVR. Players naturaly improve/regress as the season goes along.
People are freaking out like these players can't/won't go back up in the near future. NBA players, hell all athletes fluctuate throughout the year. 2K updates ratings for half the league and it's a thankless job. It's far, FAR better this way than ten years ago when rosters were updated BI-MONTHLY, missing players were abound, and the only way you could get daily updated rosters was to literally mail me your memory card.
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But I was going to wait on this one. But I do think your right.
Rashid anything to throw at this one?
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lol hey, might as well be honest about it.
I don't think the ratings are bad or inaccurate by any means and I understand it's only been 7 or so games for every player, but IMO RoCo and Simmons are better than what their ratings are.
Simmons also having no badges kind of bothers me. He's a rookie yes, but I think we understand that, at the very least, .. dude deserves a dimer bronze lol (I'd obviously give him HOF dimer because he's the goat)
On the subject of ratings I noticed that when you move Kuzma to SF he goes up to like a 79.
Basically everyone in the league's rating goes up when you move them to SF.
2K's formula for SG, PF, and C is straight basura.
This is the case with Paul Zipser (+2 switching from SG to SF) and Jamal Murray (-2 switching from SG to PG).
IIRC someone was complaining about Murray's drop and this should help explain that.
(Source: 2kratings.com)
Last year RHJ dropped to like 69 OVR if you changed his position to PF (where he was starting). So I'm certain this is like option B rather than actually dive in on his ratings (pretend he plays an entirely different position that isn't SF - hey its the Nets, they'll never notice!)
The roster imbalance 2K seems to create with all their team rosters is mind-boggling
PG: Russell (81), Lin (78), Dinwiddie (76), Whitehead (73), Ouattara (66)
SG: Jefferson (78), LaVert (75), Crabbe (75), Kilpatrick (74), Harris (72)
SF: Carroll (77)
PF: Booker (76), Acy (72), Wiley (68)
C: Mozgov (74), Zeller (73), Allen (72)
Like in what world does it make sense for 5 rotation players to occupy one position? Really hoping for a typo on this one.
The Nets actual depth chart is basically
PG: Russell / Dinwiddie / Whitehead
SG: LaVert / Harris / Kilpatrick
SF: Carroll / Crabbe
PF: Jefferson / Acy
C: Mozgov / Booker / Allen / Zeller
With Dinwiddie/Harris flexing up and Booker down as needed.
Potential ratings generally auto-adjust to OVR.
On a related note: Wiggins sucks. The most empty 20 points in the NBA. Take the ball out of his hands and brings zilch to a team.
On a related note: Wiggins sucks. The most empty 20 points in the NBA. Take the ball out of his hands and brings zilch to a team.
You know, he was one of the guys I thought rating would of dropped lol.
On a related note: Wiggins sucks. The most empty 20 points in the NBA. Take the ball out of his hands and brings zilch to a team.
Same can be said for Devin Booker and he’s an 86 and going up. But I mean BUCKETS right? ‘He dropped 70!’ In a loss.
Jordan Bell need a Badge(Bronze or Silver) Posterizer.
The best part this last update was Otto Porter Jr. now is a beast like real life.
Gotta love how some guys have a faster w/ ball speed than regular speed, as if anyone could possibly be faster when they have the ball than without it. Oladipo should definitely be closer to 90 than 80.
Yeah, logic tells you its not possible,lol. But I think there is actually a reason why they do it. Not sure if I can explain it very well, but I think it has to do with getting fast break points, where logic tells you when a player breaks away on a FB, that the player with the ball isnt actually faster, its just the other players, either dont hustle back, or they know they cant get back quick enough, so they dont waste the energy in a no win situation.
Granted hustle is where you should see the difference, and to a degree I think it does, as I have lowered the hustle slider, which has made for more FB points, but it also seem to effect the lack of loose ball and over the back fouls, as I now see no over the back calls since lowering hustle, although I have lowered rebounds some, but I actually think its the hustle slider which is effecting the impact of not seeing OTB calls, I was seeing before lowering hustle below 40.
Another possible reason I have thought of is the rating scale for speed and speed with ball isnt the same, so while the speed with ball is higher for alot of players who are quick and have good ballhandling abilities, I dont think the actual higher rating actually means player is faster with the ball than not with the ball.
If neither of these is the case, then I dont know what would make them think some players are actually faster with the ball than without the ball, as common sense tells you its impossible for any player to actually be faster in a race while dribbling the ball, than a player would be without the ball in a race.
I hope this made sense:D
Bayless and McDonnell are on the bench, and Fultz is injured.
Bayless and McDonnell are on the bench, and Fultz is injured.
Just put him there in the rotation, don’t change his position. Make it secondary maybe. But when Fultz’s shoulder is healthy, they will absolutely have lineups with Fultz at the 1 and Simmons at the 3/4, even if they don’t start Fultz.
On a related note: Wiggins sucks. The most empty 20 points in the NBA. Take the ball out of his hands and brings zilch to a team.
Seems like it what it takes to get max contract.
Another possible reason I have thought of is the rating scale for speed and speed with ball isnt the same, so while the speed with ball is higher for alot of players who are quick and have good ballhandling abilities, I dont think the actual higher rating actually means player is faster with the ball than not with the ball.
90 speed = 90 speed with the ball.
same speed.
Robert Covington:
13 players are shooting 7+ 3s per game this year, RoCo has the highest % among them shooting 48.2% from 3.
For reference, Klay Thompson has the 2nd highest % at 44.3%
Ben Simmons:
18.5 ppg 9.6 rpg 7.9 apg 1.5 spg 53% shooting
This is deserving of higher than an 81 IMO
Also, give this man some damn badges - his badges are laughably terrible, I understand he's a rookie, but he's been at an all star caliber level every single game this season.
His WORST statistical game has been 11 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists and 1 steal.
With Simmons it’s not really that cut and dry. The biggest issue with him is shooting plays such a large role in wing players overalls, if one of your shooting/scoring ratings or athletic ratings aren’t through the roof, or both of them at a good level it’s going to be tough to crack the high 80’s.
He’s rated now as a good rebounder, good defender, good passer, good athlete, elite finisher.. his individual ratings are pretty solid. I would give a lot of his passing ratings a slight bump, but not too much because I don’t think you can prove to be one of the best passers in the league off of just 6 or 7 games. His shot IQ should go up, he’s not a good shooter but he’s definitely got the IQ to recognize when and where to pick his spots.
Definitely can give the man some badges though.
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90 speed = 90 speed with the ball.
same speed.
Well then if thats the case, then I have no idea, why any dev or ratings guy, whoever it is who does these ratings, would think a player can be faster with a ball in his hands than without.
I just assumed there had to be a logical reason, as I didnt think anyone would be that ignorant and incompetent to think any player would be faster wwhile dribbling a basketball, than without. Makes no sense whatsoever, common sense tells you, its impossible, it dont take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Wiggins
13.7 PER
50 TS%, 6 AST%, 26 USG%
5 ORB%, 11 DRB%
1.5 STL%, 0.6 BLK%
Booker
21.1 PER
59 TS%, 22 AST%, 28 USG%
2 ORB%, 14 DRB%
1.4 STL%, 0.4 BLK%
Booker isn't a black hole and can actually shoot.
Bayless and McDonnell are on the bench, and Fultz is injured.
Bayless/McConnell are are still getting most of the PG minutes - Simmons is only playing like 10 MPG there, even though he's starting.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201711030PHI.html
Rotation playing time in this one effectively breaks down as such:
PG: Simmons (10), McConnell (25), Bayless (13)
SG: Redick (33), Bayless (15)
SF: Covington (32), TLC (13), Simmons (3)
PF: Saric (21), Simmons (27)
C: Embiid (28), Holmes (10), Johnson (10)
Well, the issue actually is that he's technically not a wing. He's a ball-dominant PF in the Blake Griffin/Lamar Odom vein. Dating back to last season before he got hurt, he was never expected to be a wing.
Are you really gonna use the Otto Porter barometer?
(Because the irony is Otto actually deserves his money if Wiggins is also worth it)
Committing long-term to a high-profile 22-year old isn't exactly a terrible bet, but the contract is certainly not without risks. If Wiggins doesn't improve his game it's one of the worst contracts in NBA history. Imagine if Michael Beasley got an extra 100 million from the Wolves after his first three years.
I just assumed there had to be a logical reason, as I didnt think anyone would be that ignorant and incompetent to think any player would be faster wwhile dribbling a basketball, than without. Makes no sense whatsoever, common sense tells you, its impossible, it dont take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
It seems like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. Gameplay designers come up with these attributes and work on the game mechanics but then when adjustments are made to how they work, that info probably doesn't get passed along to other departments.
For a ratings editor they would now need to assess every player in a different manner, have it affect those OVRs you've worked on (which ARE important no matter how much people try to tell you otherwise). It's a lot to throw out there on someone who has their own goals/deadlines they are trying to hit.
(Source: 2kratings.com)
Last year RHJ dropped to like 69 OVR if you changed his position to PF (where he was starting). So I'm certain this is like option B rather than actually dive in on his ratings (pretend he plays an entirely different position that isn't SF - hey its the Nets, they'll never notice!)
The roster imbalance 2K seems to create with all their team rosters is mind-boggling
PG: Russell (81), Lin (78), Dinwiddie (76), Whitehead (73), Ouattara (66)
SG: Jefferson (78), LaVert (75), Crabbe (75), Kilpatrick (74), Harris (72)
SF: Carroll (77)
PF: Booker (76), Acy (72), Wiley (68)
C: Mozgov (74), Zeller (73), Allen (72)
Like in what world does it make sense for 5 rotation players to occupy one position? Really hoping for a typo on this one.
The Nets actual depth chart is basically
PG: Russell / Dinwiddie / Whitehead
SG: LaVert / Harris / Kilpatrick
SF: Carroll / Crabbe
PF: Jefferson / Acy
C: Mozgov / Booker / Allen / Zeller
With Dinwiddie/Harris flexing up and Booker down as needed.
This is not true. No positions have been edited at all from the default roster from day one.
For a ratings editor they would now need to assess every player in a different manner, have it affect those OVRs you've worked on (which ARE important no matter how much people try to tell you otherwise). It's a lot to throw out there on someone who has their own goals/deadlines they are trying to hit.
I'm still looking for Kerry Kittles. As fellow tri stater there is no way in the world that he should be 74 speed from that Nets team. He can't be below the average speed for the entire league. And don't get me started on his defense.
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13.7 PER
50 TS%, 6 AST%, 26 USG%
5 ORB%, 11 DRB%
1.5 STL%, 0.6 BLK%
Booker
21.1 PER
59 TS%, 22 AST%, 28 USG%
2 ORB%, 14 DRB%
1.4 STL%, 0.4 BLK%
Booker isn't a black hole and can actually shoot.
Defensively? He’s absolutely a black hole. They both are awful on the defensive end. Booker has been passing more this season, and his efficiency isn’t garbage like it has been. But I’ll wait for a full season before I’m willing to say he’s not an inefficient chucker. Still don’t think he’s worth an 86.
For a ratings editor they would now need to assess every player in a different manner, have it affect those OVRs you've worked on (which ARE important no matter how much people try to tell you otherwise). It's a lot to throw out there on someone who has their own goals/deadlines they are trying to hit.
That does seem to be the case. That makes alot of sense, as to how something like that could get screwed up. These guys after all, who work on NBA2k, arent dumb by any means, they know IRL that a player isnt going to be faster dribbling a ball down the court, than he is if he is running without the ball down the court. Something definitely had to get crossed up, or not passed down to those who do the rating inputs.
I just assumed, the 2 ratings werent evenly balance with speed and speed with ball, and why we see some players having higher speed rating with the ball than without. Even though that poster showed me it is actually even, I still have a hard time believing thats the case.
I thought I heard, there was going to be a ACE and tendency update coming soon. Its why I have been waiting to start my MyLeague. But I beginning to think, that might not be the case:brickwall
Its rare for them to update tendencies, but I do think I remember them doing it atleast 1 time last yr.
Late, but I just decided to try this out now. Dropped his layup, draw foul, three ball, free throws, shot close, and consistency then upped his blocks a tad. Increased his Intangibles to 99 for good measure.
OVR was 77. Without the Intangibles increase, he was a 75.
I'm going to say no. Vucevic's 3 point tendency is still at 5.
OVR was 77. Without the Intangibles increase, he was a 75.
I'm going to say no. Vucevic's 3 point tendency is still at 5.
Dropped to what ratings? Also did you increase other ratings like defensive consistency, defensive IQ etc?
OVR was 77. Without the Intangibles increase, he was a 75.
I'm going to say no. Vucevic's 3 point tendency is still at 5.
I kinda agree on what you did on his rating.
however,
'It's a measure of being clutch. We shot over 30% higher at the buzzer or the last 5 seconds of a close game with 99 compared to 25.'
gotta be careful increasing the Intangibles of someone who just can't shoot.
Lonzo’s shot hasn’t been falling, but the team doesn’t operate the same without his passing. Defense, rebounding, and pace. That alone should keep him right where he is ratings wise, but people won’t be satisfied until he either sucks ratings wise or eventually becomes so good they can’t talk anymore.
Lonzo’s shot hasn’t been falling, but the team doesn’t operate the same without his passing. Defense, rebounding, and pace. That alone should keep him right where he is ratings wise, but people won’t be satisfied until he either sucks ratings wise or eventually becomes so good they can’t talk anymore.
As a Chattanooga Lookouts fan, but a Laker watcher.
This is the guy at 79
and this is the son of Lavar
the 79
the 80
Jayson Tatum's player efficiency rating is 16.0 (compare to Ball's 9.0)
and his Win Shares are 1.1 (compare to Ball's -0.1)
He plays 32min per game (Ball 32.8min), Celtics don't operate the same without him playing too.
Yes, it seems Ball sucks for being 80.
There is no doubt balls rating should be lowered if your gonna lower Fultz by 2 points for playing a few games hurt. Then you need to do the same thing for balls scoring ratings
This is the guy at 79
and this is the son of Lavar
the 79
the 80
Jayson Tatum's player efficiency rating is 16.0 (compare to Ball's 9.0)
and his Win Shares are 1.1 (compare to Ball's -0.1)
He plays 32min per game (Ball 32.8min), Celtics don't operate the same without him playing too.
Yes, it seems Ball sucks for being 80.
There is no doubt balls rating should be lowered if your gonna lower Fultz by 2 points for playing a few games hurt. Then you need to do the same thing for balls scoring ratings
By this same logic, Kyle Kuzma should be about 3 or 4 points higher than whatever Jayson Tatum is because he’s been twice as good.
Really low. Unfortunately, the kid can't score well in the NBA yet.
Defense I didn't touch too much besides blocks. I wouldn't raise those numbers up a significant amount though.
Defense I didn't touch too much besides blocks. I wouldn't raise those numbers up a significant amount though.
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Cause he plays for the Raptors LOL
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I mean, he's no defensive stopper. His steals and pass perception are already overrated so I figured I wouldn't need to touch anything else.
It was weekly or bi weekly. I don't know if there is much to change without really leaving teams hurting out there. I'm saying for the sake of playing with them lol.
I was playing with KP the other night. I thought Giannis was tough.... KP is a
Beast lol....Probably needs his contest jumpers higher lol.
Kyrie defense needs a boost
Russell Westbrook a career 80% shooter is shooting in the 60% this year lol. I remember when this happen to Shaun Livington last year after shooting 90% the year before lol. I don't know how this happens to NBA players.
He is not a defensive stopper but he is better defender than advertised. Off ball defense and help defense are miles better than I thought it would be. Also you cannot discredit collegiate shooting because of 10 games while also not touching better defense shown in the NBA vs starting PGs. Only reason he stays in the game is his defense. If his defense sucked he would be limited to 20 mpg.
I mean vs Washington his defRTG was 77.9, vs BKN it was 90.7, vs MEM it was 97.9. So vs good offensive point guards he is really really good. He is kinda incosistent because vs Utah and Rubio it was 111.7 and vs NOP which was abomination of a game it was 122.
He is not consistent but he is good help defender and can stay most of the time with good offensive PGs like John Wall.
https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=34 this is a really good example. Stays in front of his man, strips him. Twice. The man is Wall.
Stays in front of Wall, doesn't get beat to the cup and makes a good contest (maybe up his shot contest as well?) which forces Wall to pass out of fadeaway shot to Gortat https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=54
Another good contest on Wall which brick hard of front of the rim. https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=64
Gets beat but recovers nicely and makes a good contest - Wall misses.
https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=68
Here he stays in ISO play by Wall and forces ugly pass which comes back to him bcoz it bounced of BroLo. https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=73
Stays in front of him which enables help by Nance JR and turnover by Wall.
https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=77
Just some of many examples of Ball playing great D on great defenders.
Should this 10 game streak of average-great defense put his defensive stats higher as shooting slump did with his shooting stats?
John Wall was -13 in 4th quarter and OT..Ball was +13. Why couldn't Wall, multiple all-star and top5 PG/top15 player in the league overcome overrated rookie and his team? Why couldn't he score? Because he was 'cold' or because his shots were bad bcoz of LAL defense, mostly Ball*.
*LAL switches almost everything except BroLo pnr.
Why did Wall miss all his 5 shots in 4th quarter? And did not attempt a single shot in OT?
Wall shot 7/22 from the game and was -12 in his 40 minutes he played.
Maybe you should up his defensive stats, ball security and pass accuracy since he only has 24 TO to his 69 AST. TOV% is on par with some of the best Nash's seasons.
Lol wrong. Kuzma has had a hot start but isn’t ‘twice as good’ as Tatum. You’re relying far too much on the eye test, and not on analytics. Kuzma has a TS% of 64. Tatum is at 63.5%. A PER of 18.0, Tatum is at 16.4. An EFG% of 62%, the only one significantly higher than Tatum, who has 56%. Obviously Kuzma should get a big boost to his ratings, but twice as good? Lol gimme a break. Tatum’s usage rating is also 2% lower and he’s taking less shots a game. Kuzma’s EFG% is pretty unsustainable considering the amount of perimeter shots he takes.
I agree that Kuzma could use a nice bump but yeah the "twice as good" comment was straight hyperbole.
The only thing that Kuzma has been better than Tatum at is making shots at the rim. Rebounding has been a wash so far and Tatum has been much better than Kuzma at making 3's, defensively, and at drawing fouls. Tatum has been a better passer and FT shooter, as well.
There's also something to be said for a rookie getting lot's of playing time and excelling on a team that has the best record in the NBA versus one playing on an average team. With all that said, we're just 10 games into the season, so a lot can change. I predict that at the end of the season these two will be second and third in rookie of the year voting. Simmons winning RoY, Tatum 2nd and Kuzma 3rd (but obviously the steal of the draft).
however,
'It's a measure of being clutch. We shot over 30% higher at the buzzer or the last 5 seconds of a close game with 99 compared to 25.'
gotta be careful increasing the Intangibles of someone who just can't shoot.
wow didnt know he was that bad ouch
I mean vs Washington his defRTG was 77.9, vs BKN it was 90.7, vs MEM it was 97.9. So vs good offensive point guards he is really really good. He is kinda incosistent because vs Utah and Rubio it was 111.7 and vs NOP which was abomination of a game it was 122.
He is not consistent but he is good help defender and can stay most of the time with good offensive PGs like John Wall.
https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=34 this is a really good example. Stays in front of his man, strips him. Twice. The man is Wall.
Stays in front of Wall, doesn't get beat to the cup and makes a good contest (maybe up his shot contest as well?) which forces Wall to pass out of fadeaway shot to Gortat https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=54
Another good contest on Wall which brick hard of front of the rim. https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=64
Gets beat but recovers nicely and makes a good contest - Wall misses.
https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=68
Here he stays in ISO play by Wall and forces ugly pass which comes back to him bcoz it bounced of BroLo. https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=73
Stays in front of him which enables help by Nance JR and turnover by Wall.
https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=77
Just some of many examples of Ball playing great D on great defenders.
Should this 10 game streak of average-great defense put his defensive stats higher as shooting slump did with his shooting stats?
John Wall was -13 in 4th quarter and OT..Ball was +13. Why couldn't Wall, multiple all-star and top5 PG/top15 player in the league overcome overrated rookie and his team? Why couldn't he score? Because he was 'cold' or because his shots were bad bcoz of LAL defense, mostly Ball*.
*LAL switches almost everything except BroLo pnr.
Why did Wall miss all his 5 shots in 4th quarter? And did not attempt a single shot in OT?
Wall shot 7/22 from the game and was -12 in his 40 minutes he played.
Maybe you should up his defensive stats, ball security and pass accuracy since he only has 24 TO to his 69 AST. TOV% is on par with some of the best Nash's seasons.
staying in front is not a rating. Consistency is the only thing that he can get increased IMO and thats a CPU rating. I know you are a laker fan but be realistic. The stats and eye test dont lie. He isnt playing like a #2 pick
https://youtu.be/SCZ2Sus-lko
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Wiggins straight up doesn't pass, period (which is the definition of a black-hole, not sure why you're bringing their defense into it - as if Wiggins isn't among the worst at his position on that end anyway).
Between Booker at 86 and Wiggins at 85, it's pretty clear which player is more overrated right now (Wiggins by a mile).
however,
'It's a measure of being clutch. We shot over 30% higher at the buzzer or the last 5 seconds of a close game with 99 compared to 25.'
gotta be careful increasing the Intangibles of someone who just can't shoot.
So based on your testing, it's safe to say that 2K just renamed the Clutch rating.
That is pretty unfortunate given the attribute's history.
How is it not? Staying in front is based on strength, lateral quickness, on-ball defense IQ. Are you really that blinded by the hate that you claim that staying in front of top 5 PG does not have a rating in-game?:splat:
put clarkson into PG and it looks good.
put clarkson into PG and it looks good.
problem solved.
Between Booker at 86 and Wiggins at 85, it's pretty clear which player is more overrated right now (Wiggins by a mile).
I guess 7-3 says other wise.
Lol what does this have to do with anything still doesn’t change what he said about Wiggins
That's what I'm saying. It's was terrible joke lol.
I mean vs Washington his defRTG was 77.9, vs BKN it was 90.7, vs MEM it was 97.9. So vs good offensive point guards he is really really good. He is kinda incosistent because vs Utah and Rubio it was 111.7 and vs NOP which was abomination of a game it was 122.
He is not consistent but he is good help defender and can stay most of the time with good offensive PGs like John Wall.
https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=34 this is a really good example. Stays in front of his man, strips him. Twice. The man is Wall.
Stays in front of Wall, doesn't get beat to the cup and makes a good contest (maybe up his shot contest as well?) which forces Wall to pass out of fadeaway shot to Gortat https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=54
Another good contest on Wall which brick hard of front of the rim. https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=64
Gets beat but recovers nicely and makes a good contest - Wall misses.
https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=68
Here he stays in ISO play by Wall and forces ugly pass which comes back to him bcoz it bounced of BroLo. https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=73
Stays in front of him which enables help by Nance JR and turnover by Wall.
https://youtu.be/gTROUhUKdJw?t=77
Just some of many examples of Ball playing great D on great defenders.
Should this 10 game streak of average-great defense put his defensive stats higher as shooting slump did with his shooting stats?
John Wall was -13 in 4th quarter and OT..Ball was +13. Why couldn't Wall, multiple all-star and top5 PG/top15 player in the league overcome overrated rookie and his team? Why couldn't he score? Because he was 'cold' or because his shots were bad bcoz of LAL defense, mostly Ball*.
*LAL switches almost everything except BroLo pnr.
Why did Wall miss all his 5 shots in 4th quarter? And did not attempt a single shot in OT?
Wall shot 7/22 from the game and was -12 in his 40 minutes he played.
Maybe you should up his defensive stats, ball security and pass accuracy since he only has 24 TO to his 69 AST. TOV% is on par with some of the best Nash's seasons.
Okay.
Decreased scoring, didn't touch passing (although he is a bit overrated so far), then gave him: 70 block, 75 steal, 80 on ball d/lateral quicks, 75 def consistency, 80 defensive IQ. Didn't give him an intangibles boost (left it as the 2K default). His OVR was a 77. He really needs to develop some way to score to be any higher.
I have him at 78(I think) which could be due to higher shot contest and slightly better than yours shooting (low 70s, at most 72, mid range in 60s).
Also how Lonzos opponent shoots while he is defender in attachment.
He is playing better than expected in all areas except shooting, for me at least. But I had preserved thoughts about him.
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the boost for contested mid range and off the dribble shot would be nice but still wouldn't see a big difference unless he has the badges which i think he's missing a lot of. been having same badges for a while now IJS
Cavs defensive rating this year so far - 30th (worst all time right now)
I know it's only been 10 games this year, but they were bad last year, too.
Cavs 2k defensive ranking - 3rd best overall.
Might need to be looked at.
Cavs defensive rating this year so far - 30th (worst all time right now)
I know it's only been 10 games this year, but they were bad last year, too.
Cavs 2k defensive ranking - 3rd best overall.
Might need to be looked at.
I toned them down big time in my personal roster. No bias.
Cavs defensive rating this year so far - 30th (worst all time right now)
I know it's only been 10 games this year, but they were bad last year, too.
Cavs 2k defensive ranking - 3rd best overall.
Might need to be looked at.
They sucked defensively last yr as well, and yet in NBA2k, they still had a good defensive rating. Problem is, they refuse to lower guys and give them a extremely low ratings in any area. Just look at Jame Harden defensive rating, and Mike D'Antoni, defensive rating as a coach. I havent look at the Cavs ratings to much, but Im sure Korver, Frye, Love, Rose, actually its probably every single player on their team, and possibly even Lebron all have higher defensive ratings than they should. I would have to look to know for sure, but Im sure thats the case, heck they probably even have Ty Lue rated better than they should with his defensive rating. I dont know if the ratings people for NBA2k, just arent that knowledgeable, or if its the whole star struck thing, with being around the NBA players these days, for these guys, that they wont give them a true rating, or if there is a flaw in the game, where if you were to actually rate according to their abilities, it would ruin the gameplay, likely thats not the case, so its probably 1 of the other 2 things Im mentioned or both.
Chase I think your right it's combo of things. It's what I talk about all the time. It's what Rashid I just argued about earlier in this thread. Do we drop them this early in the season. Just to bring them back up a few days from now. If we all made rosters and compared them to each other. We'd all have very different rosters lol.
It's like KAT right now.... I wasn't onboard about his defense being as bad as people were making it out to be. But some people showed me some video the other day of some of his positiioning problems (overrotating, coming over with help too early, and gambling). I could say I agree with those people now. He probably needs a drop in his defensive consistency. Which I think would play into his current problem in that these are just tiny mistakes. Because he still comes up with great defensive plays from time to time.
Also not trying to spam these threads.
But Kerry Kittles needs at least a speed boost and a defensive steal and pass lanes boost.
Tyreke Evans has been playing like a Sixth Man of the Year.
He needs a ball control boost for sure...Needs to be at least a 90. 83 won't cut it in my opinion.
It's like KAT right now.... I wasn't onboard about his defense being as bad as people were making it out to be. But some people showed me some video the other day of some of his positiioning problems (overrotating, coming over with help too early, and gambling). I could say I agree with those people now. He probably needs a drop in his defensive consistency. Which I think would play into his current problem in that these are just tiny mistakes. Because he still comes up with great defensive plays from time to time.
Agreed, jeebs, I don't think ratings should change unless it's a significant change, otherwise it turns into a cycle of going up a few points, then going back down a few, like you said.
But the Cavs defense has been bad since the beginning of last year. Almost 100 regular season games of being in the bottom 3rd of the league defensively. Even if they were giving 100% effort, which they are not, they shouldn't be 3rd overall. It's a big enough discrepancy that it needs to be addressed. Whether it's Lue's rating, or individual player ratings, it needs to be looked at.
It's like KAT right now.... I wasn't onboard about his defense being as bad as people were making it out to be. But some people showed me some video the other day of some of his positiioning problems (overrotating, coming over with help too early, and gambling). I could say I agree with those people now. He probably needs a drop in his defensive consistency. Which I think would play into his current problem in that these are just tiny mistakes. Because he still comes up with great defensive plays from time to time.
Yeah, I think its a combo of things, and I also agree with you, 6-8 games into a season, isnt a big enough spread to be dropping and raising overalls of players. Heck they are all overrated to begin with to some degree anyway, so raising them makes no sense, and a player who is in his prime and proven himself, shouldnt take a hit to his ratings, after a handful of games either.
What I have found out thru the years with 2k and there ratings, if they are a big name player, who is a offensive only player, and defense is very good, or in some case even liability on that end, the 2k ratings people wont lower those defensive ratings, to where they should be. Especially if say its a lazy defender like a Harden, who isnt much on helping on D or putting forth much effort to keep his man in front of him, but they have a knack for playing the passing lanes and coming up with steals, instead of giving them a good rating for intercepting passes, and whole lowering all other areas of defense quit a bit, they just give a player like that a descent defensive grade even though its not deserved.
Personally I dont think it so much those who do there ratings like knowledge, although I could be wrong, I truly think its about being star struck, now days with how the game has evolved, and players are at NBA2k facilities at times doing stuff, along with just its a younger generation of players, who actually also play the game, is the reason why ratings are so poorly done to begin with.
But atleast they do allow us to edit ratings as well as tendencies, although on some of the ratings, I wish there was a better explanation of what they actually effect. Some are fairly vague, and atleast myself anyway, aint sure which way to go on the rating.
But the Cavs defense has been bad since the beginning of last year. Almost 100 regular season games of being in the bottom 3rd of the league defensively. Even if they were giving 100% effort, which they are not, they shouldn't be 3rd overall. It's a big enough of a discrepancy that it needs to be addressed. Whether it's Lue's rating, or individual player ratings, it needs to be looked at.
I wasn't speaking about the Cavs. I agree with you guys. They need a drop overall. But I don't think we are going to see those drops until game 20 or 30 of the season (if they keep this pace up). They've gone to the finals how many years in a row? and they are favorites to go again.
You said it, they are fan favorites, so they wont be dropping their ratings too much, especially there Defense ratings, which is what needs a major drop. They started out overrated defensively, taking into account how bad they were last yr on defense, but they had a good offense, and they play in the EC, so the road to the finals was easier for them.
Its really only there defensive ratings, which need dropped quite a bit, offensively wise, I think its too early into the season to be making changes offensively wise. Plus once they get IT, and if IT is healthy, he should help the offense quite a bit.
I picked the Cavs to get back to the finals, and I still feel they likely will making it back to the finals for the 4 straight yr and Lebrons 8th in a row. Although IT is going to have to be healthy, and I dont think it will be as easy for them this yr getting back there, I think the Bucks and even the Celtics without Hayward could still cause the Cavs problems. But it wouldnt be wise to bet against a Lebron led team, especially if he gets a healthy IT.
Yep, IT, imo is a liability on D just due to his height, but he also dont work all to hard on that end of the floor either. He will help there offense, as long as he is healthy that is, but it will likely take some time to build some chemistry with them. Being that they are in the EC, they should be able to stay afloat, till IT gets back. There D likely wont get lowered much, by 2k, do to the popularity, if I remember Stauffer is a Cavs fan, so there is also some bias there I imagine:grin:
I have to say... even though he is a Cavs fan. I haven't seen any bias from him. He's actual done a great job in my opinion.
When compared to the 2k insider, he has did better,lol. Getting players added into the game he has did a great job, that has definitely improved since he went there, ratings and tendencies not so much, still pretty awful, with inflated overalls, and just some odd ratings on certain players. My issue, is more about certain individual ratings, more so than overall rating of a player, as who should be a 90 or who should be a 80, is mostly opinion based anyway. My issue lays with certain attributes, that are just flat out wrong, as is certain tendencies.
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He’s rated now as a good rebounder, good defender, good passer, good athlete, elite finisher.. his individual ratings are pretty solid. I would give a lot of his passing ratings a slight bump, but not too much because I don’t think you can prove to be one of the best passers in the league off of just 6 or 7 games. His shot IQ should go up, he’s not a good shooter but he’s definitely got the IQ to recognize when and where to pick his spots.
Definitely can give the man some badges though.
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I don't disagree with you, his ratings certainly are solid, I just think they should be much higher - passing especially.
Through 10 games now, he's averaging:
17.8 ppg 10.1 rpg 8 apg 1.7 spg 0.9 bpg
6th in the league in APG, Top 10 in AST%
It's only been 10 games, I know, but he's proven to have elite passing skills/vision IMO.
And to reiterate your point, yes, please, badges!!
HOF Dimer for sure, totally jk, but not really, because I want it.
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Thats possible. I guess where I have a issue, for example Olidipo, is 1 of the faster players in the league, yet his speed rating dont reflect that. He didnt just all of a sudden become faster now that he is a Pacer, he had that speed before being a Pacer:grin:. IMO when they bump him up in overall, all they would have needed to do was actually give him his correct speed. He really didnt need a bump just to up his overall. IMO after only a handful of games, you dont need to raise a players shooting abilities, as he is likely not going to sustain the shooting %. His speed however, if your fast your fast, thats not a rating which should fluctuate, outside of a player being injured.
Don't get me started on speed.... You've seen my Kerry Kittles post.It's not the 2001 Nets if you can't play defense and run.
But I agree with you.
But the Cavs defense has been bad since the beginning of last year. Almost 100 regular season games of being in the bottom 3rd of the league defensively. Even if they were giving 100% effort, which they are not, they shouldn't be 3rd overall. It's a big enough discrepancy that it needs to be addressed. Whether it's Lue's rating, or individual player ratings, it needs to be looked at.
I think part of the problem is "Playoff Cavs" and "Season Cavs" are two different things. LeBron is gonna maintain his ratings regardless of what happens during the regular season.
2018
30th Opp eFG%
27th Opp TO%
15th DRB%
4th FT/FGA
2017
18th Opp eFG%
29th Opp TO%
22nd DRB%
3rd FT/FGA
They look like the same team more or less. The main issue is opponent's shooting.
2017 DRPM
2.26 Kevin Love
1.93 LeBron James
1.31 Tristan Thompson
-0.16 Iman Shumpert
-0.48 Richard Jefferson
-0.58 Channing Frye
-0.98 J.R. Smith
-2.30 Kyrie Irving
-2.61 Kyle Korver
New Cavs in 2017
1.69 Jae Crowder
-0.46 Dwyane Wade
-1.31 Jeff Green
-2.36 Derrick Rose
-3.89 Isaiah Thomas
On paper the Cavs actually IMPROVED their defense by picking up Crowder and Wade, while Rose replacing Irving was largely a sideways move. So that partially explains 2K's defense ratings. Data samples are still small and figuring out who or what exactly is the problem takes time in a game with this many attributes.
From what I can tell beyond health issues the Cavs are getting worse defense out of the SG spot. They are starting J.R. Smith (who missed the first half of last season) while Iman Shumpert has been largely out of the rotation. They have been committed to playing Kyle Korver who is merely an offense-only player at this stage of his career. Dwyane Wade has been a solid defensive SG throughout his career but asking him to log minutes at PG at age 36 is surely reducing his effectiveness.
Even Jeff Green is a bit of a downgrade from Richard Jefferson (while Jae Crowder surely hasn't made the impact everyone thought he would). The Cavs have also gotten smaller by sliding LeBron to PF and Love to C. They then realized they should go back to last season's traditional lineup, only to see Thompson to get hurt and leave the lineup again.
were there a Roster update today? and when will you all update Badges ala Porzingis he needs shooting badges asap
Give the roster team time to update it. As it stands, the sample size for the season is still pretty small, and some players still need time to adjust. No need to rush them into making changes that wouldn't really stick long term.