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Madden NFL 20: Gut Foxx Details Issues With This Year's Gameplay

Madden NFL 20

Madden NFL 20: Gut Foxx Details Issues With This Year's Gameplay

There has been a lot of good discussion this week about Kevin Scott’s two-part Madden NFL 20 Pet Peeves series here on OS (part one, part two), and so I thought it would be good to continue that with some more critiques from around the web. One video I watched that I thought was a good summation of some of the gameplay gripes came from content creator Gut Foxx.

Now, Gut Foxx mostly plays head-to-head games within MUT so his views are skewed more towards the competitive side of gameplay, but it’s good to get that perspective as well.

Here are some of the things he calls out and why he does not like them. I recommend you watch the whole video, but I’ll hit on some of the big points in some bullet points:

  • Stretch runs being overpowered. This is something that cascades through the community.
    • The running back abilities are too strong in that they lead to too many auto-broken tackles.
    • Force defender needs to actually contain the outside rather than getting suctioned in so to speak.
    • LB play recognition needs to be better on counter runs as they are too easily faked out.
    • Gap integrity and block shedding needs more consistency. Gap assignments and how defenders shed blockers is too erratic as of now.
    • Juking or spinning into a hit stick should lead to more fumbles.
  • Binary pass rush does not leave much room for nuance.
    • It’s a coin flip when engaging the offensive tackle, you either hard win or hard lose most of the time.
    • Need more randomness and nuance to these showdowns.
    • Should just simplify the abilities offensive linemen get, no need to complicate them.
  • Play-action should be more useful.
    • Stacking the box needs to have consequences because heavy blitzing very meta right now. In part, this is because of the run meta, but if defenders held gaps and contained the edge more it would not be as necessary.
    • Need to be able to take the top off the defense with the fastest guys after beating press coverage. CBs can still recover too often and make a play.
  • Wants an “under” coverage option to stop corner routes.
    • This can allow checkdown passes but just need to actually stop corner routes.
    • Offense for many is scramble and then go corner route.
  • Contains on non-blitzes are not effective at keeping QB in pocket, which is ironic since contain blitzes remain the meta blitz type for past couple years.
  • Pocket QBs are too weak, too impacted by pressure.
    • Need more abilities than scramblers or something else to make anyone want to use them more online.

One highlight I watched from a recent Madden Competitive game on Twitch encompasses a lot of the issues mentioned in this video, and you can see it here:

  • An overpowered QB ability allows Luck to break contain right after the snap. Luck’s brought back into the pocket when the defender starts pursuing him. Luck then throws across his body on his back foot as the user on defense tries to cover up the overpowered corner route with user control. Luck’s QB abilities allow him to throw an insane deep ball for a touchdown.

You can find Gut Foxx on Twitch here and on YouTube here.

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  1. Nothing to disagree with here, especially the OL.
    The patty cake is still around, but I will note it's getting better with xfactors because now you need to plan your game plan around the Khalil Mac's in user vs cfm.
    I don't go into MUT, so, I can't recall if xfactors are in MUT.
    roadman
    Nothing to disagree with here, especially the OL.
    The patty cake is still around, but I will note it's getting better with xfactors because now you need to plan your game plan around the Khalil Mac's in user vs cfm.
    I don't go into MUT, so, I can't recall if xfactors are in MUT.

    X-Factors are in MUT. I think the offensive line stuff just needs a new tech infusion at some point, seems like the animation-driven stuff in terms of how it works just does not allow much nuance in their animation gameplay structure. There need to be more branch points in these animations if they can't go full physics-driven.
    I have been ranting for decades, but I don't think any football video game (including 2K or NCAA) has ever really got the gameplay "Balance" and "Risk/Reward" concepts accurately captured. Kind of disappointing as when making any kind of game, this is where it should start....and then build off of that.
    Cardot
    I have been ranting for decades, but I don't think any football video game (including 2K or NCAA) has ever really got the gameplay "Balance" and "Risk/Reward" concepts accurately captured. Kind of disappointing as when making any kind of game, this is where it should start....and then build off of that.

    Yeah, I mean football more than any other sports game is a paced out strategy game, right? You have actual playcalling, and even with hot route spam and everything else, the point should be I think you're running X so I will run Y, it's risk and reward.
    Within that of course there is skill to adapting when you realize it's actually Z being run not X etc. but at the start, it's a guessing game where you are trying to outsmart your opponent before a play even begins.
    The same risk/reward concept you mention should absolutely also play out in the gameplay -- for example, you try to bull rush outside and it's an inside zone etc. which would happen in a better fashion if gap integrity mattered more and all that -- but the core of plays and counters to plays needs to work first before that stuff matters because step 1 working then leads to step 2 working and mattering (if that makes sense).
    Play-action should be more useful.
    Need to be able to take the top off the defense with the fastest guys after beating press coverage. CBs can still recover too often and make a play.

    Yes. These have been my biggest issues. The only reason I use playaction is because I think the animation looks cool... I have no expectations that a LB or a DB will actually bite on it. Even then, I use it sparingly because if the AI defender is blitzing, then you're sacked because the blitzing guy won't bite on the fake.
    And I was shocked... last night, I played a game where I aired it down the sideline and my receiver actually caught it in stride. None of that jumping nonsense and catching the ball just to have it knocked out of your hands nonsense
    kennylc321
    Play-action should be more useful.
    Need to be able to take the top off the defense with the fastest guys after beating press coverage. CBs can still recover too often and make a play.

    Yes. These have been my biggest issues. The only reason I use playaction is because I think the animation looks cool... I have no expectations that a LB or a DB will actually bite on it. Even then, I use it sparingly because if the AI defender is blitzing, then you're sacked because the blitzing guy won't bite on the fake.
    And I was shocked... last night, I played a game where I aired it down the sideline and my receiver actually caught it in stride. None of that jumping nonsense and catching the ball just to have it knocked out of your hands nonsense

    Seeing certain teams like the Niners live on PA, and then not see it be super viable online is a bummer for sure.
    I think the offensive line stuff just needs a new tech infusion at some point, seems like the animation-driven stuff in terms of how it works just does not allow gclub much nuance in their animation gameplay structure.
    gclub1188
    I think the offensive line stuff just needs a new tech infusion at some point, seems like the animation-driven stuff in terms of how it works just does not allow gclub much nuance in their animation gameplay structure.

    Nuance means “variable” and MUT/Comp players don’t want that in the outcomes of their gameplay.
    The conversation of “Simulating” actual football aspects just doesn’t mesh with what MUT/Comp gameplay development.
    I say Gameplay Development instead of a Play Style because the negative aspects that often get brought up are 100% a Gameplay Design.
    “Stick Skills” it’s called, when in fact it’s really “Forced” outcomes against the fluidity of variability of an interaction.
    Tweet after Tweet, Clint got beat down over how outcomes of High Cards/OVR’s should dictate and consistently produce 100% favorable win-chance for the User as well as, AI vs AI interactions.
    Even gamers that market them selves as “Sim” players, argue how OVR’s should predicate what outcomes are suppose to happen...
    ... well my 90 OVR DB should be doing this to a 75 OVR WR
    Consider the “Library of Animations” that are rarely triggered in Madden, yet are in the game and available, but can’t be tapped into because of this need for the the outcome to favor the End User.
    A great example of this is the Beta Pass Rush vs the current Pass Rush.
    Beta triggered blocking win/loss animation nuances that had OL blocking looking very fluid but then..., and even though they say the Pass Rush was not touched directly, tweaking of other gameplay aspects has indirectly altered the Pass Rush and the animations we “frequently” see triggered.
    They’re trying to play the balancing game of meshing Variability vs End User Win Outcome desires and what we’re seeing is the conflict of the two without the need of a microscope.
    Now with $$$ and Social Media-Cred involved, the constant tweaking to pacify the End User so they can win, has Madden playing like that moment when it’s sounding all good, then out of nowhere...
    ...(old heads know)
    kennylc321
    Play-action should be more useful.
    Need to be able to take the top off the defense with the fastest guys after beating press coverage. CBs can still recover too often and make a play.

    Yes. These have been my biggest issues. The only reason I use playaction is because I think the animation looks cool... I have no expectations that a LB or a DB will actually bite on it. Even then, I use it sparingly because if the AI defender is blitzing, then you're sacked because the blitzing guy won't bite on the fake.
    And I was shocked... last night, I played a game where I aired it down the sideline and my receiver actually caught it in stride. None of that jumping nonsense and catching the ball just to have it knocked out of your hands nonsense

    Crazy thing is, there was a time not too long ago where PA was fixed from being useless for years before this, now we’re right back at that point again. Typical with Madden unfortunately. But PA has been reverted back to being an easy sack like it used to be. It’s wasn’t at it’s best in M19 but it’s definitely worse now in M20.
    TheGentlemanGhost
    Crazy thing is, there was a time not too long ago where PA was fixed from being useless for years before this, now we’re right back at that point again. Typical with Madden unfortunately. But PA has been reverted back to being an easy sack like it used to be. It’s wasn’t at it’s best in M19 but it’s definitely worse now in M20.

    Yeah I harp on the stretch play being dominant -- and it clearly is -- but the other issue is passing just is not as fun so people default to what works. The pass rush is not well tuned with the coverage in the game right now, so you end up targeting only a couple specific routes and otherwise running a lot (at least in higher level H2H play).
    The pass game is such a disappointment, especially for those of us that play no-switch. Possession catches hardly ever trigger, which leads to a ton of incompletions unless you jack up the WR catch slider. Deep balls are pretty much worthless because the receiver always jumps, which allows the DB to catch up, then usually knock the ball out.
    And while the pass rush can be overly dominant, it would be okay if the routes were run at the speed of the pass rush. You can't get a realistic 2.5-3 seconds in the pocket because intermediate routes won't be run in that amount of time due to the slow animations of WRs running the route.
    There aren't nearly enough catches with WR/DB catch animations, and more often than not it gets intercepted because the ball gets tipped straight into the air.
    Unfortunately, the game engine needs to probably be rebuilt from scratch, but who knows if that'll ever happen.
    Well hopefully next gen could be more rewarding but I have seen and said that the last few gens only for the game to have taken major steps back! Reminds me of how these dragon ball games are as they keep repeating the same story lines
    Jr.
    The pass game is such a disappointment, especially for those of us that play no-switch. Possession catches hardly ever trigger, which leads to a ton of incompletions unless you jack up the WR catch slider. Deep balls are pretty much worthless because the receiver always jumps, which allows the DB to catch up, then usually knock the ball out.

    Why not just hold the RAC button
    Shogunreaper
    Why not just hold the RAC button

    “Aggressive Jump Catch” is still the #1 triggering catch animation on deep throws now matter the button pushed.
    It’s in-line with the X-Factors: Double Me and Mossed, so it’s a gameplay design.
    There’s a 3-yrd programmed distance for Defender to jump for interception, that forces the 2-man interaction (ie Aggressive Catch) to trigger.
    RAC is not a 2-man Animation where other aspects are weighted above it’s triggering...
    1) Aggressive Catch
    2) Tackle Radius that force 2-man tackle animation to trigger
    The fluidity of RAC animations are in the game, but their minimization is a design choice.
    Notice how in any H2H video/stream, the QB/RB can run/weave between defenders and pull away from them without a triggering 2-man tackle animation , but on RAC you can’t!!!
    - 2-man Aggressive Catch or Tackle animations are force 99.9% of time
    Those “over-the-shoulder” catches with the defender draped over the WR are beautiful when they do happen.
    Simulate the sport, especially when it’s already in the game and ready to go.
    Shogunreaper
    Why not just hold the RAC button

    Because I play in a league that doesn't allow us to use the catch influence buttons. We play a full no-switch style to force us to create stronger rosters.
    It doesn't play well with how Madden wants people to play now, but I enjoy stick skills having less influence when I play sports games.

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