MLB The Show 18
Franchise Mode is Piece of a Bigger Picture Says San Diego Studios
Much has been said in recent months regarding San Diego Studio’s perceived lack of focus on design improvements for franchise mode in MLB The Show. Many community members have clamored for an overhaul in recent years, only to see incremental improvements on a year-to-year basis. According to two of the more senior designers working on the game, the goal is to present a user experience in a more holistic package rather than staging each mode on its own island.
“We are challenging ourselves not to compartmentalize the way we talk about MLB The Show,” said Nick Livingston, lead game designer on MLB The Show 19. “We want to understand the gamer, the person we’re trying to serve.”
For that reason, March to October was a big addition this year and was specifically targeted to users looking for a more simplified experience. According to John Livingston, senior narrative designer — and, yes, Nick’s brother — March to October will bring a level of fun and ease to what can be a complex, burdensome MLB season experience.
“I wanted to give users a curated season experience that’s fun and exciting,” Livingston said. “–Provide something that wasn’t so daunting.”
Livingston believes that franchise mode can be a very cumbersome experience and overwhelming for the casual gamer. He said for most users, playing 162 games will take a long, long time. While simulating some or all of the experience is an alternative, Livingston holds the view that it entirely takes the control away from the user.
“I wanted to put the control totally in the player’s hands [where] their play is going to decide the outcome of their season,” Livingston stated.
March to October represents a big addition to the MLB The Show suite of modes. That being said, it doesn’t necessarily reflect a shift in thinking by the San Diego Studio team as far as what the future may hold for franchise mode and offline gaming.
According to Nick Livingston, the misnomer being thrown around that San Diego Studio has shifted to a money-hungry focus, thus strictly feeding the Diamond Dynasty community, couldn’t be further from the truth.
“I read Operations Sports. I read all 26-plus pages from last night’s stream,” Livingston said. “I’m very in-touch with the Operation Sports community. I see a lot of the discussions back and forth, feeling like we’re money motivated and we’re not. We’re not at all, and it’s not a consideration.”
He pointed to the improvements made across the board to evidence his point.
“The majority of our design team this year was dedicated to offline features, and it’s not even close,” Livingston stated. “I feel like we’ve done enough this year, with the amount of focus we put on Road to the Show, with the amount of focus we put on March to October.”
Livingston also emphasized that there is currently a misconception that San Diego Studio is turning into some data-driven machine that only caters to raw numbers. He strongly believes innovation is a broad spectrum, and is created and curated in a number of different ways.
“We lean as much on — interviewing specific fans as we do metadata about how many fans are playing what,” Livingston said. “We don’t even weight data any higher than our understanding of being in touch with what feedback we see from fans on the internet or our own personal goals from innovating the game.”
That being said, the data may surprise you.
“People underestimate the amount of players that play Road to the Show regularly,” Livingston stated. “Road to the Show is the majority of users. The other substantial groups are Diamond Dynasty and franchise mode.”
But franchise mode took some significant steps forward this year. For the first time ever, contracts for active MLB players will now have accurate average annual values (AAV). Dollar figures for players will be accurately representative of real life. Back-loading and front-loading contracts, as well as midseason contract extensions, are now a reality. For the user pleading for a more immersive GM experience, these are massive steps forward to bring an even truer simulation experience to franchise mode.
“This is something franchise players care a lot about,” Livingston said. “If I’m playing the role of GM, everything just got way more realistic now that those tools — are at my fingertips.”
The landscape of MLB The Show is changing. Gone are the days of singular modes designed to be played by their lonesome. Designers at San Diego Studio want MLB The Show to become a living, breathing ecosystem where any and all game modes coincide with one another. Anything a user experiences in-game should supply crossover to other pieces of the package as a whole.
That statement breeds the question, what exactly is the future of franchise mode as traditional gamers know it?
“I would really answer that question differently depending on the person I’m talking to,” Livingston said. “Right now it’s a set of knobs and levers in a simulation baseball environment. We certainly don’t want to lose those aspects. We don’t want to lose that flexibility. We want to continue to innovate the game and how you do those things.
’What is franchise mode?’ is a question that we know that people have very different answers to,” Livingston said. “There’s a long list of stuff we want to improve, but this year we were finally able to get over some hurdles to make [contract improvements] happen.”
MLB The Show 19 releases on PS4 on March 26.
Thanks guys.
Good luck.
Consider me surprised by the point that RTTS is the most played mode. I knew more people played it than this forum gives credit for, but more than DD? Wow.
Also I didn't know John and Lick were related (although I had considered that possibility)!
A majority of your players do play franchise mode and you haven't done much to improve this game mode for a while now. We have asked for improvements and additions only to be turned away and disappointed. You have alienated a percentage of your fan base, and it will show when it comes to sales of MLB 19. I have already switched over to OOTP for my baseball fix this year, so have many of my friends.. SDS you can kiss my ***! Come back when you've made some changes that are worth my time, effort and money.
Can you please edit this post to smaller font. Thanks.
on a side note, can we ban the use of giant text please?
Yeah, not much sense in even responding as its all been harped on before ad nauseam. He gave us nothing to chew on, so.....
I've played more hours worth of '18 than I dare to contemplate so it's been a strange experience for me not to be overwhelmingly positive about '19, but that's down to one thing only - my disappointment that franchise hasn't evolved and so few additions that we've thrown around on here for the last 12 months have been added.
Seeing as the screenshot included in the article shows a players profile screen, one thing they could immediately do to keep me happy is remove that 'Twitter' page from the profile. In franchise I have a player who has been traded to Miami but his real life Twitter feed in his bio is updating me with his spring training exploits in Boston. It's completely out of context and completely takes me out of my virtual reality space. Half of the players I've checked don't even have Twitter posts making it even more irrelevant.
I respect SDS for MLBTS '18 which I have enjoyed immensely and hope that when they start roadmapping for '20 which they will do in a matter of weeks, they prioritise franchise mode.
But MtO looks fun! I will absolutely play it and think it can be a great way to play a season, especially for those of us who have limited time for playing and can't get through more than maybe a couple games a week.
But the difference is Diamond Dynasty gets improvement after improvement year after year, which - fine, no big deal, its popular and a money-maker long after release. But there's huge potential here to implement MtO improvements into Franchise mode in MLB20, and I'm not really expecting them to do so considering how many Franchise mode "features" are installed and then forgotten, like scouting, training, coaching staffs and morale. The way SDS developers talk to the community is also a big turn-off; this interview has some big contradictions in it (people sim in franchise mode, which apparently is an issue, but this mode is simming a lot!) and last year's Phases was a total joke.
They're dead-on when they tell us that players want the game to feel like a narrative. March to October is a great way to scratch that itch. But next year I want to be able to make roster moves and have a rookie's debut a game I can play. And let us tweak injuries - sure, a lot of players hate it when their favorite player gets hurt, but if you just allow manual injury management in the mode, then everyone wins. March to October is wasted if it's dropped in this year and then left alone. The next 2-3 years should feature improvements to the mode AND franchise mode. SDS used to be a trailblazer in the sports video game space and I'm not alone in thinking that they've kind of stalled the last few years. NBA2K and Madden both have robust franchise modes & RTTS-type modes despite also having Ultimate Team-type modes as well. Everyone can win here. The gameplay is excellent so I understand they aren't going to have a ton of huge developments there.
March to October is a really impressive-looking mode and I'm excited to play it, but the key thing is if they continue to support it and implement it into franchise mode because the two are extremely intertwined already. Want to just play one season and see if you can get the Red Sox to the World Series? Go ahead! But if I want to go through multiple years, March to October is just the start. Say I want to rebuild the Marlins - that first season, a March to October isn't really realistic for me because I don't have the stick skills to win enough with a worse roster. BUT if March to October flows into Franchise mode, it's perfect. The first season I try to win as much as I can, with the big moments being rookie debuts, breakout performances, big trades (do I sell off this player, or try to re-sign him?), etc. Then in subsequent years franchise mode has March to October playing-style. With "phases," this seems like a logical development. I would be 100% more attached to my team if I have those big moments like they've show in March to October. Especially if there's a way to have them saved and stored in the mode, similar to NCAA Football's Vault where you could play highlights in the background. That was awesome!
I have no idea what this will all look like in MLB19. I think it's a great idea and think franchise mode needs a lot of help, but it's overall solid regardless, though it is stale. They key is to build upon this first iteration; baseball is all about the process of building upon building until you win. Dropping in a new mode like this is like signing a good free agent closer but ignoring the crumbling bullpen for 3-4 years. Sure, you get a shiny toy that is awesome when it has a chance to be, but pieces around it aren't always getting the job done.
Anyways, tl;dr March to October is cool, franchise mode has a chance to be great if SDS can be the trailblazer they once were when they developed RttS and their great gameplay.
I don't know...like someone said, this does seem to be a total damage control thing. But I guess it least it does show that they are listening and do see that people are invested in Franchise Mode. Now I just want to see some of that translate into updates that put it on par with other Franchise-type modes that exist in other sports games. Real-life contracts, contract extensions, and back/front loading of them is a start, but there is still work to do.
Livingston believes that franchise mode can be a very cumbersome experience and overwhelming for the casual gamer.
...I would assert DD and RTTS are already shallow modes which appeal to the casual gamer. I don't see how adding another mode designed to appeal to the casual gamer adds to the game.
No offense to anybody - I'll still buy the game - they missed a chance to fix and upgrade franchise.
I understand the casual gamer is more likely to drive up sales numbers IF (that's a big if) you are able to attract them but you are doing it at the expense of a fanbase that is loyal and has continued to support the product despite your constant lip service and refusals to throw us the most miniscule of improvements. Shoot we're not even asking you to reinvent the wheel, we are just asking for a refinement or better implementation of features that are already in the mode. Had they just tuned a few simple things such as scouting, training, progression/regression I guarantee their would have been a lot less bitching. These are things that are already in the game!!! We just want them refined so they work better.
Like most of you said this just came off as lip service. On the positive side I think SDS felt the need to speak up becaus they finally realized that the franchise crowd has finally had enough of their crap. I think they realize they are at risk of losing a huge chunk of what might be their most loyal and consistent customer base.
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Like I said, I still plan on buying but next year they really need to focus on Franchise before creating anymore new modes.
Chasing extra sales or trying to attract new customers can be a dangerous game. I manage a team of 11 outside sales guys b2b sales. We have a monthly dollar quota as well as a new customer (company that has never bought before) quota that they have to meat every month. We hired a new guy on about a year ago and he just came up for review. He was consistently beating every other salesman last year in his new customer numbers by almost 50% a month. I mean he was seriously breaking company records for new customers brought on.
Although he was absolutely killing it in this category his total dollar amount sold for the year was far below every other salesman. The next closest guy he was $80,000 under. During his review we discovered that he was able to consistently get new prospects to buy from us because he was neglecting the accounts that were already established customers in his territory. We are in a very competitive industry and during the year he wasn't doing his quarterly check ups or sales calls. These established consistent customers were going with other companies because we were essentially out of site out of mind. So for every dollar this sales person was bringing in he was also losing a dollar due to neglect of already established customers.
This is essentially what SDS is doing in my opinion.
I actually said the exact thing out loud when I finished reading it. Spot on.
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They have told us on and off over the years that RTTS was the most played mode. I would understand the skepticism if it was me making the claim, which I actually have, but why would you not believe them?
Do you think they are lying to prop up RTTS numbers? What would the motivation be for them to do that? RTTS is not really a monetary mode like DD.
it already is, March to October is the initial start to a revamped franchise mode.
this is said for every single video game out there. and it will continue to always be like that.
- front loading/ back loading contracts: they say they've added this but we've all watched the stream. We can't even manually change the yearly contract numbers, we can only click front load or back load and the game does it for us. Is this innovative? Is this ground-breaking? We seriously can't manually edit yearly contract numbers when front or back loading? The game has to do it for us? Seems like a half-assed fix that was added to make people think that their focus hasn't entirely gone off of franchise.
- In-season Contract extensions: are rarely even handled in-season anymore. Complete waste if you ask me.
What else has been added to franchise mode?
And what have we been clamoring for for YEARS?
- build-a-stadium: apparently this will take an entire development cycle so no go.
- Relocation: also will take an entire cycle so no go.
- Rotating interleague schedule: They said during one of the streams that this is also a no go because . . . it will take an entire cycle to implement.
Wait . . . it will take an entire cycle to implement relocation and an entire cycle to implement rotating interleague schedules? Something seems off about this excuse when EVERYTHING they don't implement is because of the same reason.
Anyway, again, interview is nonsense to me, just trying to appease the masses and increase sales. I've been saying for YEARS that the company had an agenda which is why the idea that catch-up logic isn't so far-fetched because people want close games. They are a company and companies operate to make money, plain and simple. If you believe ANYTHING else, you don't understand the fundamental concept of business.
I would agree if I hadn’t checked their official Twitter feed recently and seen a significant proportion of replies asking for updates to franchise mode. Like I said in another thread, if it’s a recurring theme on Twitter it’s popular and relevant.
splash of paint on them. Its just weird to me. This isnt 2011 anymore, the show is no longer on top graphically and gameplay wise where a "little things" thread blows the consumer away. People are getting impatient, myself included. Thats not to say I don't support the devs, it just seems that boat of people asking themselves "wait why exactly am i buying this game this year?" is getting more and more crowded, and that clear cut day-1 buy has quickly turned in to waiting for a sale or just outright skipping. The front jersey numbers being placed higher shouldn't be my most excited fix/feature in a new game lol.
Playing in an on-line franchise environment with my sons (and some of our friends) is a game-changing goal and desire. It's inconceivable to me that today's sports games (with exceptions of Madden and NBA 2K) don't have an on-line franchise option. Those of us who grew up with the early iterations of sports video games literally dreamed about the day when we'd have on-line franchise options. Now that the technology clearly exists to do this well, it's a sports-game travesty not to have an on-line franchise option.
To the MLB The Show development team that reads OS posts and articles, please bring back on-line franchises.
I disagree my friend. Take a look at their twitter feed. Franchise may be a small minority but we make up a good percentage of sales. A good percentage of sales for a game that already represents what is now #3 in terms of sport popularity in the country. SDS doesn't want to lose those sales and I think they realize this is he year that a lot of people will jump ship or at the very minimum skip. Even if only 200,000 out of a million people by this game for franchise only that is still a huge percentage of sales to lose.
If you bring in 10,000 new casual customers but lose 15,000 franchise customers who were loyal buyers previously, that is still a net loss.
The dissatisfied minority will always be the most visible on any forum or social media platform.
When they posted the poll on twitter recently, those of us who are not really dissatisfied simply answered the question that was posed. There was no reason for us to leave a comment. There were 7,878 votes and only 230 comments and not all of those comments were about franchise, but people still point to those comments as some benchmark as to how overwhelmingly popular franchise is.
Of course, no one wants to be curated to death... and the SDS team is providing a regular franchise mode with no curating, but I think it is a great idea that many will come to enjoy. ESPECIALLY later in the season when we have tired of our regular franchise mode that we never finished. And, they have provided the option to*continue into a regular franchise experience after the curated season ends. That's a great option.
When they posted the poll on twitter recently, those of us who are not really dissatisfied simply answered the question that was posed. There was no reason for us to leave a comment. There were 7,878 votes and only 230 comments and not all of those comments were about franchise, but people still point to those comments as some benchmark as to how overwhelmingly popular franchise is.
Dude you have a serious vendetta against franchise players don't you?
Diamond Dynasty- Look at all this cool stuff we've added!
March to October- Look at all this cool stuff we added for this entirely new mode!
Franchise mode- "we are challenging ourselves not to compartmentalise the way we talk about the Show", " the goal is to present a user experience in a more holistic package rather than staging each mode on its own island"
Yup.
When they posted the poll on twitter recently, those of us who are not really dissatisfied simply answered the question that was posed. There was no reason for us to leave a comment. There were 7,878 votes and only 230 comments and not all of those comments were about franchise, but people still point to those comments as some benchmark as to how overwhelmingly popular franchise is.
Interesting hypothesis but completely contradicted by the fact that the ratio of Madden and FIFA Ultimate team posts on Twitter and content on YouTube far outweigh those for their respective franchise modes. If the dissatisfied were more vocal and persistent as you claim then the same would apply but it doesn’t. In fact, I’ve seen countless efforts to energise and mobilise passionate franchise mode players of Madden to push for a greater social media presence and it hasn’t happened and their frustrations probably far outweigh ours.
And your assertions with respect to that Twitter poll are at best disingenuous.
It is the ONLY reason I buy the game each year.
Playing in an on-line franchise environment with my sons (and some of our friends) is a game-changing goal and desire. It's inconceivable to me that today's sports games (with exceptions of Madden and NBA 2K) don't have an on-line franchise option. Those of us who grew up with the early iterations of sports video games literally dreamed about the day when we'd have on-line franchise options. Now that the technology clearly exists to do this well, it's a sports-game travesty not to have an on-line franchise option.
To the MLB The Show development team that reads OS posts and articles, please bring back on-line franchises.
So I want to kind of tag on to this post, regarding online franchise and franchise in general. I was one of the (few? many?) who enjoyed online franchise with friends and was bummed when they took it away. I knew when they removed it last year, it would not make it's return for a while, if ever. My issue with some of the statements from the developers is this....
....one of the biggest reasons they decided to do away with online franchise is because "the data showed that it was the least played game mode"....
There are countless articles and posts last year touching on this. Now, in 2019, they say the data is something that they don't even use that much and doesn't dictate a game-mode. I'm just confused as too which is it and why the explanation is now changing. It just seems there is always an excuse to not update franchise than the other modes. And that goes for most sports games, not just The Show.
And your assertions with respect to that Twitter poll are at best disingenuous.
Call me old-fashioned at 32 yrs old but I hate even reading the paragraph you typed lol. Gamers worrying about what game-mode is getting complained about the most through Twitter/social media. I just believe that, since we are consumers of this product, we shouldn't have to go to Twitter to beg for a better game mode. Just my 2 cents
Nope, not at all. There are franchise users on this site who I respect quite a bit.
To be honest you’re right, it’s daft that we’re using social media to gauge and somehow rank the concerns of gamers but that’s an indictment of where we’re at today. Made worse by the fact that developers seem to take their feedback from what they see and read on there.
100% agree. Sign of the times I guess.
And your assertions with respect to that Twitter poll are at best disingenuous.
Not to mention all Dolenz would have to do is take a trip over to the shownation and see that 99% of the posts are people bitching about DD. In fact DD posts outnumber franchise posts a thousand to one, and most are negative. Franchise guys are not nearly as negative as the ultimate team crowd. It cracks me up that people are seriously taking a shame on you approach because we are aggravated that for a fifth year in row we are stuck with a mode that has been the virtually the same. Then they act like we should be happy they even threw us a new feature (if you can even call it a feature) that if you have even played the mode at all in the last theee years, you would know will probably break the game (real player salaries).
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I was an Xbox lifer and bought a PS4 mainly because I wanted to enjoy MLB The Show. I wasn't playing The Show when developers were participating on these forums regularly, so I don't know what that feels like. This article just makes me wish for times like that.
Maybe then I would be more motivated to believe franchise will receive an overhaul. I'm curious why--since this interview was specifically for OS--neither developer went into more detail about under the hood improvements to franchise. Millennium mentioned the SDS team makes franchise AI tweaks every cycle in his recap stream.
Why not use this interview as an opportunity to talk about that?
I was an Xbox lifer and bought a PS4 mainly because I wanted to enjoy MLB The Show. I wasn't playing The Show when developers were participating on these forums regularly, so I don't know what that feels like. This article just makes me wish for times like that.
Maybe then I would be more motivated to believe franchise will receive an overhaul. I'm curious why--since this interview was specifically for OS--neither developer went into more detail about under the hood improvements to franchise. Millennium mentioned the SDS team makes franchise AI tweaks every cycle in his recap stream.
Why not use this interview as an opportunity to talk about that?
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You just had multiple streams to talk about and compartmentalize Road to the Show, and you will have 2 diamond dynasty streams.
Stop it SDS you make me want to wish bad things on this game for the blatant BS.
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Maybe I'm missing something but how would they receive feedback without social media?
Keep in mind, OS is very much a form of social media.
I can't think of a medium where they could listen to us that wouldn't be deemed to be some form of social media.
That being said...
1) You can't divide a game into modes and when one isn't getting as much love, then say it's not fair for us to "compartmentalize" the game. 100%. Cop. Out. Maybe you do envision a "game without borders," but that isn't how it plays. There are modes. You can only use these modes to do very definite things.
2) To say the studio is not "money driven" is misleading at best. Maybe the devs themselves as individuals couldn't care less about profit and aren't constantly focused on the cash register cha-chinging every time someone clicks on DD, but the company they work for certainly is. To insinuate that monetary considerations don't play a central role in how the game gets developed is something I'd expect someone named Polyanna to come up with, not Nick. It just is not true.
3) To say they listen to all types of gamers (instead of just telemetry or the squeaky-ist voice streamers with the largest followings) is interesting because they've added virtually none of our huge, long wish lists that pop up several times per cycle on Operation Sports. Don't listen to me? Fine, I probably don't deserve it especially since I didn't buy last year. But, what about the hundreds of other guys that have the same gripes and mostly the same list? If they really listened to OS (and twitter...and other places), they'd already know how they were falling short here. The simple fact that Nick got trotted out to address this perception is pretty interesting evidence.
4) We have the 'but RTTS is bigger' justification. Ah, yes. We franchise mode players are wee and insignificant. Haven't heard that one before. Fine. RTTS can get the sun, moon, and stars for all I care. Just make sure franchise gets more than one minor thing per cycle that probably hasn't been implemented well is all I'm asking. I really don't think that's unreasonable to ask from a AAA simulation sports title.
Unfortunately, this article reads like someone making excuses at the behest of corporate higher-ups to placate a lot of very mad people that are commenting on twitter feeds with pitchforks at the ready. Let's call a spade a spade here. The whole "the almost nothing we added to the mode you like is actually quite a lot of something argument" needs to die. It's insulting and easily falsifiable.
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Keep in mind, OS is very much a form of social media.
I can't think of a medium where they could listen to us that wouldn't be deemed to be some form of social media.
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Fair enough, but they still get feedback from here in addition to all platforms. I don't think the sword to fall on is claiming they only read twitter or Facebook.
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Why's that?
There mere fact that can claim to be in touch with the OS community and then turn around and say franchise needs to be more appealing to casual players shows how out of touch you are with the OS community. Don't make claims you can't back up.
You say you have a long list of things that you want to improve in franchise, but you're too afraid to say anything specific. I get it, you don't want to make a commitment in case it can't be kept, and if this were 3 years ago I would have given you the benefit of the doubt. But after 3 years of lip service for franchise, I cannot take that claim on faith any longer. I need something tangible before that faith is restored.
This whole situation reeks of peddling to the new consumer while selling falsehoods to the faithful. This whole interview conjures nothing but negative emotions in me.
The cherry on top of the FU sundae though was calling Franchise just a piece of a bigger picture. We don't want or need your empty platitudes.
"According to two of the more senior designers working on the game, the goal is to present a user experience in a more holistic package rather than staging each mode on its own island.
“We are challenging ourselves not to compartmentalize the way we talk about MLB The Show,” said Nick Livingston, lead game designer on MLB The Show 19. “We want to understand the gamer, the person we’re trying to serve.”"
Why? SDS is overthinking things if this is the direction they are headed. You don't need to reinvent how we play. You really don't. Just give us depth and customization. NBA 2k does it.
I'm not the hugest NBA 2K fan but it's hard to argue against that they put out the most feature rich sports game in existence. I can buy that game and get a years worth out of only playing MyLeague. An online gamer can get a years worth out of online modes. MyCareer easily offers a years worth of content. MyGM could be the only thing you played all year and you still wouldn't feel ripped off.
NBA 2K proves every year not only that you can have success having each mode on it's own island but that it actually makes the most sense. I can then play however I want to play. Why does SDS seem to have this desire to convert RTTS and DD users to Franchise and vice versa? It just doesn't need to be that complicated.
As for me I am buying this years game as the most important improvements for me are always the improvements made to the actual gameplay.
I am happy that SDS felt that they needed to speak on the topic because it shows that that they are paying attention to those of us who are unhappy about franchise improvements.
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I'm really concerned that the logic won't be tuned for new contracts, trades and arbitration and will be for aesthetics only.
My wife told me tonight she preordered so I'll give it a shot, but my expectations are very low.
Edit: just so people know there is alot of good ideas that the team has for the game and they are limited in what they can do due to programmers and at staff.
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I'm really concerned that the logic won't be tuned for new contracts, trades and arbitration and will be for aesthetics only.
My wife told me tonight she preordered so I'll give it a shot, but my expectations are very low.
Edit: just so people know there is alot of good ideas that the team has for the game and they are limited in what they can do due to programmers and at staff.
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As someone who never touches the other modes, yeah, I do feel somewhat like a red headed step child in this situation, but at the same time, the creation of these two new modes, which I probably will dive into a little bit, yeah...it gives me some hope that they are looking toward it.
The improvements they did make to the mode this year (actual AAVs as well as contract extensions) are great 1st steps and here's hoping the other things we are asking for are still on the whiteboard at SDS studios and are being checked off as they can implement them.
Good start, but still a lot more you can do for this mode to make us Franchise guys feel like we aren't being given the scraps of "Well, we'll give them this when we have some free time".
This argument is a fallacy, it was a convenient excuse for SDS, until this year. When they revealed they were working on this curated MTO experience for franchise and it became so big that it became its own mode. So that took time and resources that they allocated to do. If you notice they said nothing about man power only the dumb compartmentalize statement.
In franchise you have RTTS report, why not prompt end-user for some RTTS type experience in the AAA and AA games? It can be a critical situation i.e extend a hitting streak, continue the no hitter ect... You get the challenges and personalities and progression system while you are playing in the minors.
What am I saying we talking about franchise.
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Right, because doing mid-season extensions and real contracts is something that could be done in one afternoon. Seriously, that's a slap in the face.
I don't think mid season contracts would even take an afternoon tbh, all the resources for that are already in the game. It's the exact same process as the end of year contracts, just the option to access that screen pops up halfway through the year as well as at the end. The contracts themselves don't come into play until the following year, so it's literally exactly like just offering that contract at the end of the year, as far as I can tell.
Real contracts would have taken longer if they have balanced the finances to match, as they say they have. If they didn't then it's literally an hours work to get the real contracts in, but the balancing and testing would take at least a fair amount of time. The real constraint on this has always supposedly been getting permission, not the time it would take.
Either way, it's really not a particularly large amount of work.
I'm really concerned that the logic won't be tuned for new contracts, trades and arbitration and will be for aesthetics only.
My wife told me tonight she preordered so I'll give it a shot, but my expectations are very low.
Edit: just so people know there is alot of good ideas that the team has for the game and they are limited in what they can do due to programmers and at staff.
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I'm pretty sure everyone (well, most everyone) accepts their manpower excuses. But, when other things get massive face lifts year after year, it's not a question of manpower but of prioritization. That their intentions are in other places are what some of us are giving them all hell about.
I can't program for anything, but I could've banged out the realistic contracts--at least the data entry part in 48 hours. I have done that in the past with Hybrid rosters of yore. That is not hard and it takes very little knowledge. And they aren't finished inputting the values yet...
...the hard part would be coding the game to use these new contracts as its financial "ecosystem" if you will. That I couldn't have done and that I don't think anyone here is confident that Sony has accomplished either. Despite the statement about "simming into the future," nothing has been mentioned about what they looked for or what they saw--the franchise mode stream we didn't have this year would've been a great place to load up some save files and show their new baby off.
And people wonder why SDS doesn't interact on the forums anymore. :nocomprende:
And people wonder why SDS doesn't interact on the forums anymore. :nocomprende:
I'm also not sure why they want us to get excited about the walls between DD and Franchise falling down. We already can't play with custom rosters in this new mode, nor have injuries, or come up with our own trades.
I can't program for anything, but I could've banged out the realistic contracts--at least the data entry part in 48 hours. I have done that in the past with Hybrid rosters of yore. That is not hard and it takes very little knowledge. And they aren't finished inputting the values yet...
...the hard part would be coding the game to use these new contracts as its financial "ecosystem" if you will. That I couldn't have done and that I don't think anyone here is confident that Sony has accomplished either. Despite the statement about "simming into the future," nothing has been mentioned about what they looked for or what they saw--the franchise mode stream we didn't have this year would've been a great place to load up some save files and show their new baby off.
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And people wonder why SDS doesn't interact on the forums anymore. :nocomprende:
You have to take the good with the bad, no one is calling them names. People are expresing their disappointment. Reading this forum has not really weighted into any decision in the game, and besides they do come here and read. Some of you guys act like we are getting this game for free.
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Well, I think all the talk about real contracts mucking things up has been way overblown. I have not seen the same things as some others in my own roster files (hybrid-style) that I've worked on. The thing is, you have to really edit the ratings as well as the contract values. There's something mystical/magical about 80/90 OVR players that people just can't see them going unsigned. But, if that same player was a 68 OVR, it wouldn't be an issue, lol. So maybe the real problem was with OVR ratings being too high across the board and never with real contracts. I mean look at the caliber of some of the players going unsigned deep into spring training lately. Unrealistic? Just my thoughts...
And, this is exactly what OOTP is adding this year (among other things). They're calling it "Live Services." Go figure.
...
whatever
Trade prospects for a role player is almost impossible. You see many less trades and more 1 for 1.
The contract issue resolves itself because the teams sign players in year 2 and beyond at smaller salaries.
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that is the only thing i fear from march to oct is that this is a test to see if it goes to just 1 team per fran in 20
Interesting. Can you share where you are getting this data from?
that is the only thing i fear from march to oct is that this is a test to see if it goes to just 1 team per fran in 20
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This quote:
“I wanted to give users a curated season experience that’s fun and exciting,” Livingston said. “–Provide something that wasn’t so daunting.
If this is the case why do they want to put you in the daunting experience at the end of it?
This quote:
“I wanted to give users a curated season experience that’s fun and exciting,” Livingston said. “–Provide something that wasn’t so daunting.
If this is the case why do they want to put you in the daunting experience at the end of it?
From something you can do quickly to something that is quite detailed? Yeah, that makes ZERO sense.
And people wonder why SDS doesn't interact on the forums anymore. :nocomprende:
You have so much faith in humanity countryboy lol.
I can't believe you are at all surprised by this thread. I thought you were crazy when you started a thread called "lack of attention to franchise...thoughts?" and that ended up being no better or worse.
A day ago a lot of people just thought franchise was being neglected for superficial reasons and now it's being said that it's because of an actual shift in ideology from SDS based on what they think the consumer wants. That's scary as hell to me when i'm one of the consumers not represented in that belief.
Sure some people could stand to learn how to express their frustrations more appropriately but again this thread is pretty tame all things considered. I'm just glad I now know they at least read the comments and can only hope some of this negativity can be turned into a positive and at a minimum can give pause when SDS considers their future plans. Will it? probably not but it at least makes me feel better about the situation. Oh look now i'm the one with faith in humanity! lol
FastForward
Critical Situations
Player Lock
Quick Manage
Quick Counts
Simming
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The list of things that would get me to completely abandon the show is pretty short, but loss of 30 team control is one. Loss of the ability to manually add or remove injuries isn’t far behind.
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They are SHOWING you where the game is headed! Every...single....year! Honestly it plays a freaking great game of baseball. I just happen to love managing a franchise also. The days of franchise improvements that make the mode more in depth are over with this game. Still dont understand why more can't realize and accept that.
And people wonder why SDS doesn't interact on the forums anymore. :nocomprende:
Oh please! You seem like a good guy country boy and I got nothing but respect. But let's not act like they don't interact with us because we are so "negative". They don't come here because this site has the largest franchise fanbase out of any community I have seen, and that is not their target demographic.
I am so sick of the narrative that the devs have been pushed away because of the community. That's bull. They are professionals. They should have thicker skin. If I was a member of the SDS team I would be proud that I have built up a fanbase over the years that is so passionate about the product we put out. If no one cared about this game no one would be wasting their time to voice their thoughts on the matter.
I am so sick of the narrative that the devs have been pushed away because of the community. That's bull. They are professionals. They should have thicker skin. If I was a member of the SDS team I would be proud that I have built up a fanbase over the years that is so passionate about the product we put out. If no one cared about this game no one would be wasting their time to voice their thoughts on the matter.
The funny thing about this narrative is the people making that claim are just as toxic with the rhetoric, calling people cry babies,whiners and more because they voice concern and don't look through rose colored glasses.
I have a fear this is where it is heading 30 team control will be taken out. when you look at this MTO mode. it;s got EA with their CFM crap written all over it. when they killed franchise and brought that in. they took 32 team control out. that was 6 years ago. there is a way to have 32 team control in madden now but that requires spending hours beyond hours of creating 32 team profiles then having to spend more hours re order depth charts making the transactions needed. etc and then half the damm free agents VANISH from the game. That mode is designed for online single player because of 1 profile. that is why making 32 damm profiles is a time wasting joke. it only took then 5 years to fix the Long snapper even being able to be on the depth chart issue.
Baseball games in the past didn't have 30 team control it was rare to see. MLB the show was one of the first back then they listened to us and put it in the game. if the gaming industry is heading this battle royal fortnite bandwagon. this can all take a back seat.
While franchise on MLB the show has small updates. it still doesn't have it's fixes we have been asking for. like the playoff rosters. or import a player option. (it is there is is grayed out so it's never been put in)they don't even bother to try and make fixes for issues for years. instead lets create Retro mode lets create M2O. lets not fix our current modes.
Think about all the gameplay changes... it was all because of online play in DD nothing to do with franchise. players cheesing running between bases. etc I never had this issue against the CPU. all the fixes were for that.
If EA or 2K decide to get back into baseball and produce a title with solid gameplay with online leagues/franchise I know I’d make the switch. And I’m probably not alone.
If those companies did make a return to the diamond, I believe online franchise would make a return to The Show. It really is disappointing it’s not in. Playing the CPU over a human is not where it’s at...especially 29 others in a league environment. Trades, rivalries, pennant chases, free agents, etc. It doesn’t get better than that.
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Baseball games in the past didn't have 30 team control it was rare to see. MLB the show was one of the first back then they listened to us and put it in the game. if the gaming industry is heading this battle royal fortnite bandwagon. this can all take a back seat.
While franchise on MLB the show has small updates. it still doesn't have it's fixes we have been asking for. like the playoff rosters. or import a player option. (it is there is is grayed out so it's never been put in)they don't even bother to try and make fixes for issues for years. instead lets create Retro mode lets create M2O. lets not fix our current modes.
Think about all the gameplay changes... it was all because of online play in DD nothing to do with franchise. players cheesing running between bases. etc I never had this issue against the CPU. all the fixes were for that.
I used to be a loyal Madden purchaser too, stopped about 6 years ago. Not a coincidence. I’d hate to have nothing to play all year besides NBA2k, but if it comes to that oh well. I hope SDS doesn’t end up going down the same road as EA.
And people wonder why SDS doesn't interact on the forums anymore. :nocomprende:
I have been saying for the last couple years that some of the comments on this forum was likely to drive and probably have driven away SDS. That said, I have been reading this thread very closely and I think the thread has been very fair to SDS. It has been critical, but respectful. For this individual at least, I applaud the civility toward SDS in this thread while still maintaining your right to respectfully criticize.
I was an Xbox lifer and bought a PS4 mainly because I wanted to enjoy MLB The Show. I wasn't playing The Show when developers were participating on these forums regularly, so I don't know what that feels like. This article just makes me wish for times like that.
Maybe then I would be more motivated to believe franchise will receive an overhaul. I'm curious why--since this interview was specifically for OS--neither developer went into more detail about under the hood improvements to franchise. Millennium mentioned the SDS team makes franchise AI tweaks every cycle in his recap stream.
Why not use this interview as an opportunity to talk about that?
Has he been doing videos this year? I can't seem to locate his channel?
And people wonder why SDS doesn't interact on the forums anymore. :nocomprende:
This was an instance where they shouldn't have interacted with the OS community.
I mean, if I were in charge of PR at SDS, there is no way I would have let Nick talk about anything even close to the subject of franchise in an interview with OS. There was no positive outcome in this scenario.
And I think it's more than fair to say that SDS has earned a little indignation from long time fans of Franchise. It is possible the entire situation could have been saved if he showed more concern for the hardcore franchise player, but as it stands, there was no way this article was going to serve any purpose but to act as a flashpoint for people's frustration with the stagnation and lack of fixes for the mode.
And people wonder why SDS doesn't interact on the forums anymore. :nocomprende:
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Where they messed up is not allowing an option to move into Franchise during MTO. Say after the World Series, you jump right into the offseason and year two and go from there with all records and stats from the first season translating over to Franchise as the results of year one.
For the Show 20, they need to build on this and make it their "Start Today"(NBA2K) or "Play Now Live"(Madden) mode. Updated daily with the most accurate rosters with live stats and records up to that point in the season and play the biggest games of the day or any game. With the option to jump into Franchise at any point while playing.
Where they messed up is not allowing an option to move into Franchise during MTO. Say after the World Series, you jump right into the offseason and year two and go from there with all records and stats from the first season translating over to Franchise as the results of year one.
They are allowing that. You can continute on after your MtO season by hopping right into Franchise Mode with that team. I would assume all stats and things carry over.
You could do this last year with the Immortals program. You couldn’t buy any of those players and had to grind for every single one and they were literally the best cards in the entire game.
Also I can tell with my now limited reading (because of how this site’s community has changed in like the last 5 years but that’s for a different thread) that most here don’t watch any of the dev streams that don’t revolve around franchise. If SDS was so money as everyone is making them out to be, why would Ramone or Tips (content Dev for DD) come out on one of the DD streams and tell the viewers to not buy packs from the store? That is legitimately a horrible business strategy.
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There's still a difference between constructive feedback/criticism and calling the developers either liars or full of BS/spin when they explain reasoning behind their decisions.
While this thread has some of the constructive elements, it's certainly not devoid of the trash-tier elements either -- including saying our writer is paid off by Sony to write about this.
At the end of the day, finding the difference between the two is the gold standard in any large forum such as this.
PS, developers aren't sent out to lie about their creation process. There's nothing in it for them to do that -- after all, none of you forget, and most of you are like little memory goblins that way. They're generally trying to make things they want to make that they think are cool and good. It's not really a profession you want to kill yourself doing day after day if that isn't the process because making money for X company isn't going to be enough to keep you going in the long run. In other words, it's probably just logical to believe what they're saying most of the time.
PPS, don't misconstrue this as me saying y'all can't be unhappy you aren't getting more from franchise mode. It's just that it's easy enough to say "hey I want more, and here's what I want" rather than doing the other garbage. Or it can be "hey, I get what you're doing with this direction of things, but why can't you do X and Y and Z to tie into this new direction and make franchise mode deeper all at once."
that is the only thing i fear from march to oct is that this is a test to see if it goes to just 1 team per fran in 20
Yea, I’ve had this concern since I first heard about MtO. I hope we don’t end up with a unification between this and franchise mode where MtO is the default first season. Hard to see that happening but they’ll be eager to take it somewhere if it is a success.
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I don't think anyone is accusing individual people/developers at Sony of 'getting their wings' like Clarence in It's A Wonderful Life whenever someone buys stubs with cash. It's mostly an indictment of the company, the industry, and the way things have been trending in a macro sense. This is what people are frustrated by and why many feel left out of the very same games they used to be able to rely on year in and year out. The games they used to sink hundreds of hours into providing post-release content to make the game better in a symbiotic fashion with the company itself. The games they used to be excited to play.
The conversation around these parts used to be quite different, as you say, even as recently as 2016. To blame that all on us would be foolish and severely lacking in context.
Frankly, ultimate team modes make a lot of financial sense--at least in the short term. Whether you can burn that flame too hot for too long (sacrifice long-term stability and innovation for short-term financial gain) is something we're gonna find out in the next 5 years or so...not just with The Show, but with a lot of games that rely on similar revenue models. Even if a lot of the dudes working there are decent dudes, the company is in it for the cash.
Anyone who blames Ramone or Nick or anyone at Sony personally is frankly not all that bright. But, a business be making business decisions. No doubt about it.
And people wonder why SDS doesn't interact on the forums anymore. :nocomprende:
Criticism can lead to change. Constantly praising them, regardless of how disappointed we are, does nothing.
The fact that this is the common response to my post only furthers to illustrate the reasons why the devs don’t interact here anymore.
My post had nothing to do with criticism. It had everything to do with expressing that criticism with maturity and civility.
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My post had nothing to do with criticism. It had everything to do with expressing that criticism with maturity and civility.
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The dev's dont interact here anymore because they've largely abandoned the mode that 95% of us use for almost 5 iterations now.
They are not stupid. They know we are a franchise community. Why consistently post on a forum looking for feedback when they know what we want. If we were a DD focused forum they'd be here all the time. Not to mention in the last 5 years there social media presence has taken over as the main form of communication.
You just seem to always defend SDS like you are Leonidas of the Spartans. It's in near every thread. Constructive criticism is okay. After all we are here to talk about the game. Not to please the devs so they can comment on a post once a week.
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Just as an FYI. Last year they actually removed probably the biggest money maker in RTTS when they removed the ability to buy training points with stubs. That is not to say that they are not also interested in profits but if it was simply all about generating post sale revenues then i doubt that they would have removed that option.
They are not stupid. They know we are a franchise community. Why consistently post on a forum looking for feedback when they know what we want. If we were a DD focused forum they'd be here all the time. Not to mention in the last 5 years there social media presence has taken over as the main form of communication.
You just seem to always defend SDS like you are Leonidas of the Spartans. It's in near every thread. Constructive criticism is okay. After all we are here to talk about the game. Not to please the devs so they can comment on a post once a week.
Everyone says they they abandoned this forum because it is where the franchise players are. I could see that explanation being true if they were on some other forum posting and interacting with fans. But they aren't. You don't even see them post on their own official forums.
I absolutely believe that they still read them all (here, the show nation, reddit, twitter).
They are not stupid. They know we are a franchise community. Why consistently post on a forum looking for feedback when they know what we want. If we were a DD focused forum they'd be here all the time. Not to mention in the last 5 years there social media presence has taken over as the main form of communication.
You just seem to always defend SDS like you are Leonidas of the Spartans. It's in near every thread. Constructive criticism is okay. After all we are here to talk about the game. Not to please the devs so they can comment on a post once a week.
This misconception they have abandoned the mode is exactly that. Preception is everything. And if they do not add what “you” want....they abandoned the mode.
Since they moved to PS4 they added player morale, player quirks, 2 more presentation themes, dynamic storylines in-game, better stat swipes, better crowd swells, dynamic attendance, better weather effects, rain delays, in season contract extensions, better retirement logic, trade logic, real time replay, better camera angles, phases re-skin and a far better UI (I love the new look and it is far easier to navigate around franchise mode big time).
The perception is they have done absolutely nothing and it is simply false. They just have not done much in terms of building off a lot of these additions. And that is a valid concern. But the issue I have with some of the posts is the tone and vitriol and a few have a hyperbole and vitriol agenda that makes it’s way into every single thread on this general forum and it is just ridiculous.
Now......since they made MTO the new hyperbole is we are going to lose 30 team control, we are going to lose franchise mode, it is going the way of EA and Madden. They are trying to hook you into gambling, card modes blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Lord man. Get off your moral high horse and get over it. People love card collecting modes. People are free to do whatever they want with their money. This is America. This is capitalism. Just get over yourself already with this rhetoric and stop telling me how to spend my money. It’s none of your ****ing business. And if you don’t like all this.....don't spend you money on it.
All bunk. These guys are well aware of how loved those features (30 team control) are for us franchise heads. MTO was not created for us. It was created for the casual players. Thank your druthers they understand how daunting “our” franchise mode is and how cumbersome it can be to a casual player and let’s be frank......13-14 year olds today are far different gamers than we were folks.....so ****ing get over it and stop being so damn old and sounding like our parents did when we were kids.
We are playing video games and the fact we are, means we still have a piece of our youth. So embrace it. Enjoy it. We have a great game. A highly functional game, in fact IMO the best console sports game ever made.
Criticize, suggest, make SDS aware we need fixes, we want more features, better gameplay (and speaking of gameplay the advancements of this from 17 to now 19 has been amazing) That is all very important in helping develop a game. And I have never disagreed with doing just that. I do it myself a lot. I want more too. Depth, more immersive features, better logic, bigger rosters, international free agents, better scouting and drafting, relocation, etc etc etc etc.
We all know the history of this game. Incremental changes. They had one big year where franchise was really revamped (2009). They need to build off the foundation they have in place. And that is the biggest bone of contention for most of us.
Where CB, Chase and few others are getting annoyed is how some here communicate this.
Grow up.
Baseball games in the past didn't have 30 team control it was rare to see. MLB the show was one of the first back then they listened to us and put it in the game. if the gaming industry is heading this battle royal fortnite bandwagon. this can all take a back seat.
While franchise on MLB the show has small updates. it still doesn't have it's fixes we have been asking for. like the playoff rosters. or import a player option. (it is there is is grayed out so it's never been put in)they don't even bother to try and make fixes for issues for years. instead lets create Retro mode lets create M2O. lets not fix our current modes.
Think about all the gameplay changes... it was all because of online play in DD nothing to do with franchise. players cheesing running between bases. etc I never had this issue against the CPU. all the fixes were for that.
Here's my take while everybody is up in arms I see a much bigger picture. I will say I do enjoy franchise but I am a RTTS dominant player. I dont play 162 games I simulate often. I may play a month and sim the next. That's just the franchise person I am. I cannot complete a 30 team chise.
While it does blow some features aren't in I'm definitely aware.
In a nutshell. SDS understands the mass majority of play time are in RTTS & DD. With franchise being in the bottom 3rd of most utilized mode. Now I know they have put it off.
M2O is smart! They are going to be adding depth to so many other modes in the future. How do they add in (in one cycle) the ability to have season preview and storylines if we the user have been pushing towards 30 team control? It had to be implemented first in a locked down mode to see how its effect let alone to get some of that content code in the game.
Rtts has personalities and quirks this is a whole new robust chemistry morale feature. It is in rtts because that is the leading mode of mlb the show series. Most of your audience will be getting hands on giving feedback on this new chemistry morale settings.DONT FORGET THEY have the playable trainings now which could also go into franchise and scouting if you integrate a system to tie the Bowman prospect (which they skipped in stream because of the goodies couldn't reveal)
I'm not familiar with DD.
But this is all pushing positive for the new console push and a new wave for the new console. While franchise lacking they added real salaries for feedback as to how that is going to work so they know how to attack next gen.
I'd say in the future. Franchise will have storylines, full player chemistry revamped, headliner moments option. Real and functioning fully finances. Now if they add in custom draft classes or a new scouting tool which is realistic and tie in all these other features it all ties into franchise will will take an insane leap
Think big picture. You can't put these things in franchise as implemented first year features when only 25% of gamers actually dedicate real amount of times to franchise. It's not ideal for them or us
Stay woke. I have faith
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Regardless of anyone's thoughts and opinions about Franchise Mode's past, present, or future state, I just realized that 2009 was 10 years ago...and yikes, time sure flies. MLB 09: The Show was the first one I had on PS3, so now I just feel old.
Since they moved to PS4 they added player morale, player quirks, 2 more presentation themes, dynamic storylines in-game, better stat swipes, better crowd swells, dynamic attendance, better weather effects, rain delays, in season contract extensions, better retirement logic, trade logic, real time replay, better camera angles, phases re-skin and a far better UI (I love the new look and it is far easier to navigate around franchise mode big time).
The perception is they have done absolutely nothing and it is simply false. They just have not done much in terms of building off a lot of these additions. And that is a valid concern. But the issue I have with some of the posts is the tone and vitriol and a few have a hyperbole and vitriol agenda that makes it’s way into every single thread on this general forum and it is just ridiculous.
Now......since they made MTO the new hyperbole is we are going to lose 30 team control, we are going to lose franchise mode, it is going the way of EA and Madden. They are trying to hook you into gambling, card modes blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Lord man. Get off your moral high horse and get over it. People love card collecting modes. People are free to do whatever they want with their money. This is America. This is capitalism. Just get over yourself already with this rhetoric and stop telling me how to spend my money. It’s none of your ****ing business. And if you don’t like all this.....don't spend you money on it.
All bunk. These guys are well aware of how loved those features (30 team control) are for us franchise heads. MTO was not created for us. It was created for the casual players. Thank your druthers they understand how daunting “our” franchise mode is and how cumbersome it can be to a casual player and let’s be frank......13-14 year olds today are far different gamers than we were folks.....so ****ing get over it and stop being so damn old and sounding like our parents did when we were kids.
We are playing video games and the fact we are, means we still have a piece of our youth. So embrace it. Enjoy it. We have a great game. A highly functional game, in fact IMO the best console sports game ever made.
Criticize, suggest, make SDS aware we need fixes, we want more features, better gameplay (and speaking of gameplay the advancements of this from 17 to now 19 has been amazing) That is all very important in helping develop a game. And I have never disagreed with doing just that. I do it myself a lot. I want more too. Depth, more immersive features, better logic, bigger rosters, international free agents, better scouting and drafting, relocation, etc etc etc etc.
We all know the history of this game. Incremental changes. They had one big year where franchise was really revamped (2009). They need to build off the foundation they have in place. And that is the biggest bone of contention for most of us.
Where CB, Chase and few others are getting annoyed is how some here communicate this.
Grow up.
This should should be stickied to the top of the forum and Mods should delete any non constructive criticism posts about the subject. It’s taking over every inch of the board. Enough.
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If he has not been sent down at all he wouldn't use them so it is possible he still has options left.
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Uh, no. Look there was a lot of vitriol (Armors own word) in his own post, so who is right, who is wrong? Isn't there an ignore button if you don't want to see what certain members post. Seems like its mostly the same people who post their annoyance over and over, maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe some posts go too far with the critique, just as some people who jump on them go too far, knee jerk "well this thread has gone to *ell" over the slightest criticism. Or, caveats, of "I should expect that on this forum". Even those comments are disruptive, no?
The internet is not the best place for understanding nuance, nor is it the best place for diplomacy with some.
Some guys have zero problems with the game, let them rule the boards? Some people have all kinds of problems with the game, let them rule? I guess you could say that if you don't like the feeling here, move on, but then we'd have no forum.
Grain of salt. Thick skin.
Contract extensions are a great addition, and I love being able to front-load or back-load contracts, but it's simply not enough.
- The entire scouting/drafting system needs to be thrown out and rebuilt.
- Add Single A teams. Even if the games are not playable, at least make it so we can assign players to the teams and set lineups/rotations and then see their simulated stats. Just having them sitting around not playing games and not seeing how they are playing and progressing is silly.
- Make generic Coaches and Managers editable. Seeing coaches/managers with the wrong uniform number is a pet peeve of mine. I also always play as the Yankees and having coaches with facial hair breaks immersion.
- Add to contract negotiations. The way it is now is boring and simplistic, and sometimes too random. You could have the best offer, the "interest" circle full, and the player will randomly sign somewhere else for less years, less money, and stuck behind a player at their position who is better than them. The logic needs to be adjusted. And maybe have messages from the player/agent saying something like, "We like your offer, but team X is offering this, so increase the years/money to this and we have a deal." Or "add a player option for X amount of money and we have a deal." Things like that will make the offseason more fun and immersive. Instead of making an offer, simulating to the next day and hoping for the best.
- Do something similar to the above with trades. Make them more like negotiations rather than just making an offer and hoping for them to accept. Messages from rival GMs and such.
- Update playoff eligibility rules. This has been wrong for years now and has to finally be fixed.
- Rotating schedules! Please, find a way to finally get this in. If it's too much to have the cpu randomly generate correct schedules, make it so year two of Franchise uses the 2018 schedule. Year three uses 2017. Then year four goes back to the 2019 schedule. And rotate so on and so forth.
These are just some of the things off the top of my head that could be added to make Franchise feel fresh and exciting again.
Maybe some posts go too far with the critique, just as some people who jump on them go too far, knee jerk "well this thread has gone to *ell" over the slightest criticism. Or, caveats, of "I should expect that on this forum". Even those comments are disruptive, no?
The internet is not the best place for understanding nuance, nor is it the best place for diplomacy with some.
Some guys have zero problems with the game, let them rule the boards? Some people have all kinds of problems with the game, let them rule? I guess you could say that if you don't like the feeling here, move on, but then we'd have no forum.
Grain of salt. Thick skin.
If you can’t tell the difference between the fed up tone in armors post and the angry bitching just to bitch tone in the posts he was referring to then I don’t know what to tell you. Also if you read what I said carefully I said that the unconstructive posts should be removed. I said absolutely nothing about no allowing discussion or useful criticism. Nor do I have an issue with it occurring in the threads dedicated to the subject. But it shouldn’t be on me and other users to have to mod our own board and ignore users who pop into a RttS or DD thread with “Franchise is being ignored, this mode is killing the game grumble grumble”. Otherwise whats the point of threads? Just make the entire board one big community thread.
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No doubt microtransactions are a factor but my impression is the devs themselves are more interested in the "casual" modes and project that onto their customers. I see nothing about franchise which is "hardcore" or complicated.
I own a game called Elite Dangerous. If you want a hardcore game check that out.
Capitulate or say it how I want you to say it?
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"If you can't tell the difference..." Easy, maybe we also shouldn't take things too personally. It was obvious he's "fed up", I like what he's done on his own for the game, but geez, it does come from both sides. It would be nice if everyone could be diplomatic, but it's the internet. Some brave people sit at their keyboards and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. It's in the hands of the moderators.
Since they moved to PS4 they added player morale, player quirks, 2 more presentation themes, dynamic storylines in-game, better stat swipes, better crowd swells, dynamic attendance, better weather effects, rain delays, in season contract extensions, better retirement logic, trade logic, real time replay, better camera angles, phases re-skin and a far better UI (I love the new look and it is far easier to navigate around franchise mode big time).
The perception is they have done absolutely nothing and it is simply false. They just have not done much in terms of building off a lot of these additions. And that is a valid concern. But the issue I have with some of the posts is the tone and vitriol and a few have a hyperbole and vitriol agenda that makes it’s way into every single thread on this general forum and it is just ridiculous.
Now......since they made MTO the new hyperbole is we are going to lose 30 team control, we are going to lose franchise mode, it is going the way of EA and Madden. They are trying to hook you into gambling, card modes blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Lord man. Get off your moral high horse and get over it. People love card collecting modes. People are free to do whatever they want with their money. This is America. This is capitalism. Just get over yourself already with this rhetoric and stop telling me how to spend my money. It’s none of your ****ing business. And if you don’t like all this.....don't spend you money on it.
All bunk. These guys are well aware of how loved those features (30 team control) are for us franchise heads. MTO was not created for us. It was created for the casual players. Thank your druthers they understand how daunting “our” franchise mode is and how cumbersome it can be to a casual player and let’s be frank......13-14 year olds today are far different gamers than we were folks.....so ****ing get over it and stop being so damn old and sounding like our parents did when we were kids.
We are playing video games and the fact we are, means we still have a piece of our youth. So embrace it. Enjoy it. We have a great game. A highly functional game, in fact IMO the best console sports game ever made.
Criticize, suggest, make SDS aware we need fixes, we want more features, better gameplay (and speaking of gameplay the advancements of this from 17 to now 19 has been amazing) That is all very important in helping develop a game. And I have never disagreed with doing just that. I do it myself a lot. I want more too. Depth, more immersive features, better logic, bigger rosters, international free agents, better scouting and drafting, relocation, etc etc etc etc.
We all know the history of this game. Incremental changes. They had one big year where franchise was really revamped (2009). They need to build off the foundation they have in place. And that is the biggest bone of contention for most of us.
Where CB, Chase and few others are getting annoyed is how some here communicate this.
Grow up.
Most and to be constant in here on the boards reading about a game for months on end...
It's a subtle piece of change. If your breaking a budget to buy the show then end up mad because they are recalibrating the game for the next gen then just dont buy it.
It's like having 70$ to your name and going out to eat with your wife and she has money but you really can't afford to make that move.
Once again as mentioned above they have produce very high quality gameplay more consistent than any sports title arguably. And as I previously mentioned.
I believe it's all to recalibrate and revamp franchise with the tools from other modes for 20, next gen 21?
Then online chose should return fully fleshed. With armors mentioned improvements and my forecast.
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There mere fact that can claim to be in touch with the OS community and then turn around and say franchise needs to be more appealing to casual players shows how out of touch you are with the OS community. Don't make claims you can't back up.
You say you have a long list of things that you want to improve in franchise, but you're too afraid to say anything specific. I get it, you don't want to make a commitment in case it can't be kept, and if this were 3 years ago I would have given you the benefit of the doubt. But after 3 years of lip service for franchise, I cannot take that claim on faith any longer. I need something tangible before that faith is restored.
This whole situation reeks of peddling to the new consumer while selling falsehoods to the faithful. This whole interview conjures nothing but negative emotions in me.
The cherry on top of the FU sundae though was calling Franchise just a piece of a bigger picture. We don't want or need your empty platitudes.
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Everyone says they they abandoned this forum because it is where the franchise players are. I could see that explanation being true if they were on some other forum posting and interacting with fans. But they aren't. You don't even see them post on their own official forums.
I absolutely believe that they still read them all (here, the show nation, reddit, twitter).
What do you mean? They are posting and responding on the shownation. Daily even. And over there 90% of the threads start off with "This game sucks", "this games trash", "hitting sucks". Even on twitter 70% of the comments are negative and unconstructive. Comments or posts way worse then anything you will see at OS.
But yes. They have strayed from this forum because of the negativity. Let's just continue that narrative.
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Oh like your personal attack on Caulfield the other day for no reason?
Look @ what is going on in Venezuela.
W.W. 3 any one?
When the electricity goes out, no more wasting life's precious time on a pointless game.
Just think for a monent ....
I come here to talk about pointless stuff like video games because it relaxes me. I'm sure others agree. Let's not go there.
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It's really not a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario though. Had he came out and indicated that they have a firm direction they feel the mode should go, most people would have been okay with that. The problem is they just continue to leave everything so open ended. This is where you are seeing the "lip service" comment. I am in sales so maybe I am just more programmed to read in between the lines than most when it comes to open ended statements. I don't know.
In this case I think SDS would have honestly been better of not saying anything at all. I appreciate them acknowledging the franchise fanbase concerns, but they have been acknowledging our concerns for the last 3 years without actually saying what their direction if any is for the mode.
I wouldn’t have had an issue if a mod removed that and I got a warning. His Schtick is old.
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OR they are really out of touch with the offline franchise guys.
Look @ what is going on in Venezuela.
W.W. 3 any one?
When the electricity goes out, no more wasting life's precious time on a pointless game.
Just think for a monent ....
Geeze.... your a pretty serious guy aren't you?
In this case I think SDS would have honestly been better of not saying anything at all. I appreciate them acknowledging the franchise fanbase concerns, but they have been acknowledging our concerns for the last 3 years without actually saying what their direction if any is for the mode.
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Lol I didn’t take anything personnel and I pretty much agree with everything you just said.
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100% agree that nobody should be getting personal with the devs or insulting them personally. I think it's ok to pick apart their statements, though, and examine them a bit.
In some ways you're exactly right. I almost feel like not having this article/thread in the first place would've been better--it seemed to me that people were mostly winding down in the full-throated criticism phase about what was not added to the game this year. Having this thread is like opening a wound that was just about calloused over, lol.
To me, it's about what are they doing to the game not what are they saying about it. If I (and others, I think) perceived that they were making good, steady progress toward the stuff we've wanted for years, then it wouldn't be this damned situation that you describe. If they hadn't removed season mode the way they did. If they hadn't removed online franchise to sit in limbo. If they weren't paying lip service to franchise while fully re-constructing DD each year and focusing on new, better ways to hawk pre-sales...their actions speak quite loudly and a dev coming out and saying "you guys have it all wrong, it's not what you think!" is not going to change that perception. What would change that is a nice focus on the actual franchise mode itself for MLB 20 The Show, rather than continuing to find ways you can play it less and play it faster.
To say one thing after you've done another just makes it worse. We are little memory goblins, after all! Most of us understand--to some degree--that other modes get more attention, but don't try to tell us you're all in on something when the evidence is clear that's not the case.
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I meant the people on the forum, not you. All good man. One day there will be Nirvana......just not here. :) Peace, bro.
While this thread has some of the constructive elements, it's certainly not devoid of the trash-tier elements either -- including saying our writer is paid off by Sony to write about this.
At the end of the day, finding the difference between the two is the gold standard in any large forum such as this.
PS, developers aren't sent out to lie about their creation process. There's nothing in it for them to do that -- after all, none of you forget, and most of you are like little memory goblins that way. They're generally trying to make things they want to make that they think are cool and good. It's not really a profession you want to kill yourself doing day after day if that isn't the process because making money for X company isn't going to be enough to keep you going in the long run. In other words, it's probably just logical to believe what they're saying most of the time.
PPS, don't misconstrue this as me saying y'all can't be unhappy you aren't getting more from franchise mode. It's just that it's easy enough to say "hey I want more, and here's what I want" rather than doing the other garbage. Or it can be "hey, I get what you're doing with this direction of things, but why can't you do X and Y and Z to tie into this new direction and make franchise mode deeper all at once."
I find it ironic defending posters who are critical of SDS since I have been one of the most vocal defenders of SDS. That said, I agree there is a big difference between constructive criticism and calling developers liars. But the feedback in this thread related to the specific article that included developer comments that were if not outright lies then extremely misleading/deceptive.
This is the quote most people are angry about: “I read Operations Sports. I read all 26-plus pages from last night’s stream,” Livingston said. “I’m very in-touch with the Operation Sports community. I see a lot of the discussions back and forth, feeling like we’re money motivated and we’re not. We’re not at all, and it’s not a consideration.” SDS is a for profit business. Of course it is motivated by money. And there is nothing wrong with that. I have bought the game at least twice just from purchasing STUBS for RTTS. I am not complaining as I had a choice..but don't say that making money is "not a consideration." I haven't even touched on DD. So you have to call a spade a spade. And the folks in this thread called BS as do I. That is not an attack...that is a fact.
Now folks can agree to disagree on whether SDS has done enough this year to address franchise by simply adding real contracts: “I feel like we’ve done enough this year, with the amount of focus we put on Road to the Show, with the amount of focus we put on March to October.” Note the quote makes no specific reference to franchise. This is what folks on this thread are critical about...And I think they have been civil but blunt. SDS also has to be fair to the consumer. It goes both ways.
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But if you were to go back in time and be put in charge of PR at SDS, and Nick came up to you as said "I'm about to go do an interview with OS talking about franchise" what would your response be?
Personally, I would chain him to a chair before I let him go do that interview, especially if I knew he was going to say something like "Franchise needs to be more accessible to casual players". Saying something like that directly to a hardcore franchise community was always going to evoke a vitriolic response.
It's true that silence would have created negative feelings as well, but do you really think it would have been worse than this?
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But if you were to go back in time and be put in charge of PR at SDS, and Nick came up to you as said "I'm about to go do an interview with OS talking about franchise" what would your response be?
Personally, I would chain him to a chair before I let him go do that interview, especially if I knew he was going to say something like "Franchise needs to be more accessible to casual players". Saying something like that directly to a hardcore franchise community was always going to evoke a vitriolic response.
It's true that silence would have created negative feelings as well, but do you really think it would have been worse than this?
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I would guess that it is multitude more to unlock all of the immortals. of course the number who do that is small in comparison to the number that play the mode. Just like the number of franchise players who play all 162 games in franchise mode is probably not the majority.
People have talked about the other modes as being modes for casual players but I would guess that the time spent and innings played by say the top 10% of DD players would dwarf those same numbers of top 10% of Franchise players.
I just went and glanced at a person on the show nation who shows over 1,500 hours in the DD mode. 3,109 games played in their history. Even if those are 3 inning games that still translates to 1,036 9 inning games.
This is the quote most people are angry about: “I read Operations Sports. I read all 26-plus pages from last night’s stream,” Livingston said. “I’m very in-touch with the Operation Sports community. I see a lot of the discussions back and forth, feeling like we’re money motivated and we’re not. We’re not at all, and it’s not a consideration.” SDS is a for profit business. Of course it is motivated by money. And there is nothing wrong with that. I have bought the game at least twice just from purchasing STUBS for RTTS. I am not complaining as I had a choice..but don't say that making money is "not a consideration." I haven't even touched on DD. So you have to call a spade a spade. And the folks in this thread called BS as do I. That is not an attack...that is a fact.
Now folks can agree to disagree on whether SDS has done enough this year to address franchise by simply adding real contracts: “I feel like we’ve done enough this year, with the amount of focus we put on Road to the Show, with the amount of focus we put on March to October.” Note the quote makes no specific reference to franchise. This is what folks on this thread are critical about...And I think they have been civil but blunt. SDS also has to be fair to the consumer. It goes both ways.
Both can be true. The company is money-motivated -- capitalism etc. etc. -- but it's not a developer's problem to keep that at the forefront of his thoughts when he's creating a design for something or determining what he thinks will push the game forward for the audience. It's also easy enough to point out practices where SDS has specifically removed things that would lead to profits for them, or flat out developers have told people not to buy packs with real money. Companies are large and can have various competing interests, determining something like this is black and white to say it's proof isn't really worth the trouble. Or, in another context, yes a developer can look at another game and copy what's there, or he or she might have more interest in trying to do some new things in the area rather than just improve on what's existed previously.
Regardless, it's kind of dumb to try and prove motivations anyway because who cares really? The motivation is sort of irrelevant here, it's far more constructive to say "hey I want this, why can't it be a thing within the scope of where you're taking franchise mode?" rather than saying they're lying/spinning/don't care about the feature I like. You can say "X game has this feature, why doesn't Y game have it now as well?" rather than be like "well it's not there because they hate us." You're not going to be able to "prove" you're right about a developer's inner feelings, so it's just more useful to stick to what can or cannot be improved or fixed.
Or, someone can just not post about it if that's all someone is going to bring to the table is "lol devs are liars" because that's, ya know, always an option.
Again, venting is a thing and I understand what you're getting at, but the idea that venting equates to saying "they're lying" rather than just saying "this isn't good enough to me" are different things. One is assuming sinister underpinnings, and the other is simply stating I think you can do better at your job in terms of prioritizing things.
People have talked about the other modes as being modes for casual players but I would guess that the time spent and innings played by say the top 10% of DD players would dwarf those same numbers of top 10% of Franchise players.
I just went and glanced at a person on the show nation who shows over 1,500 hours in the DD mode. 3,109 games played in their history. Even if those are 3 inning games that still translates to 1,036 9 inning games.
I would think it's relatively equal for me. In terms of raw innings I would bet the 162 games and playoffs is more game time, but in terms of sitting in menus and buying crap from the marketplace it might take more overall time within DD. But then it also depends on how much time you spend in the menus within franchise mode. Having played 162 games many times and also done a good chunk of the Immortals this past season, it felt like a similar commitment, albeit the chunks of time are shorter in DD for me most of the time than when I'm racking up 3-5 9 inning games in franchise.
Probably true at the end of the season but isn't the way they staggered the immortals and position players pretty much a guarantee that you will wind up having to duplicate some grinds that you may have already done?
It's an honest question. I don't even attempt the grinds when they look as daunting as this past years immortals did.
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In all fairness, we are going on nearly five years of this mode being neglected and treated like a redheaded step child. This is amplified by the fact that SDS did say a few years ago that this would be the 3 year cycle where franchise would actually be getting some meaningful updates (I saw underdog13 post this somewhere. Maybe he can confirm) and much needed love. Instead they have doubled back and are now just making open ended statements that are making people feel like they are even more lost on what we want then ever before.
After 3 years people were upset. But after 5 years people are just pissed off. Maybe this is why these kind of threads seem more negative then ever before.
I for one am glad people are pissed off. It seems as if SDS is finally taking notice of this because of it.
The whole "162 games is cumbersome" line doesn't really add up as an excuse when you look at a lot of the DD content from last year.
But DD is so much more supported and has so much more depth, so that huge grind doesn't seem quite so long as there is other stuff going on while it's happening, you are always working on multiple things at once and there is a plethora of things to check and do between games.
Whereas Franchise is so bare bones that it can get to feel like you're just playing 162 games in a row without really anything in between. If they make more things to do between games, more reason to check on things, then the season wouldn't seem as long and "cumbersome".
But I play a ton of other games. Some devote all their gaming time to The Show but it winds up being a relatively small chunk of my overall gaming hours.
Maybe I will try my player lock franchise again this year. I basically assigned a position to each day of the week (minus Pitcher and Catcher) and as I went through the schedule I player locked a position based on that day.
What I like is through March to October is that any team seems to have a chance to win it all. Whereas in Franchise it may take a couple seasons for the Miami Marlins to field a competitive team. This opens up the possibilities of new fans of the game to take a recognized team and fall in love with them because they get to make them relevant. This is a great thing for franchise mode because that challenge of turning a pretender into a contender may just draw people to do it over a longer period of time.
I believe them when they say that franchise mode is a Piece of the bigger picture because I think that a mode like March to October is a definite piece that will get more people interested in franchise, and the more people interested in franchise will lead to an online franchise where you get to play others rather than the computer because that is what people are interested in.
I brought it up in one of the MTO threads and it was pretty much dismissed as nonsense by the hardcore, 162 game, custom roster players.
I can't see a ton of people carrying over their saves and giving it a try but I can see others doing so. Maybe I will be one.
Confirms a lot of what we already know, such as that a one year development cycle really isn’t a lot of time to do a massive overhaul of franchise when there are other modes to think about too. And I understand that they have to reach the “casual gamer” or else there wouldn’t be a game at all. There simply aren’t enough diehards to sustain the game long term, business wise.
Also leaves me feeling like we probably won’t ever get a major one year franchise overhaul, but a continuation of incremental improvements year by year.
Also nice that he addressed the claims that they are only after money from DD mode.
Guys, leave the stupid crap out of your posts like “so people can whine and complain all they want” and your entire point will be taken more seriously. The second you throw out your degrading statement, the rest of your post pretty much becomes null.
What I like is through March to October is that any team seems to have a chance to win it all. Whereas in Franchise it may take a couple seasons for the Miami Marlins to field a competitive team. This opens up the possibilities of new fans of the game to take a recognized team and fall in love with them because they get to make them relevant. This is a great thing for franchise mode because that challenge of turning a pretender into a contender may just draw people to do it over a longer period of time.
I believe them when they say that franchise mode is a Piece of the bigger picture because I think that a mode like March to October is a definite piece that will get more people interested in franchise, and the more people interested in franchise will lead to an online franchise where you get to play others rather than the computer because that is what people are interested in.
So people can whine and complain about the lack of improvement to franchise all they want, that is their right, but to not see a bigger picture and just throw away SDS as a company that is only in it for the money because they added a new mode but didn't upgrade an existing mode, is just foolish IMHO.
I'm worried if March to October is part of a bigger franchise picture. It sounds to me like it would lead to more scripted, story-telling franchise mode without customization and dynamic changes.
I can't see a ton of people carrying over their saves and giving it a try but I can see others doing so. Maybe I will be one.
I am pretty surprised they didn't mention that in the interview, or any suggestion that some of the things implemented for Mto might make their way into franchise. They didn't really mention it in the streams either, which again was surprising. I really thought they'd at least try and sell it as a gateway to franchise but they more sort of just mentioned you could go onto a franchise at the and then just moved on without any real attempt to sell people on the idea.
It seemed like a missed opportunity tbh
Regardless, it's kind of dumb to try and prove motivations anyway because who cares really? The motivation is sort of irrelevant here, it's far more constructive to say "hey I want this, why can't it be a thing within the scope of where you're taking franchise mode?" rather than saying they're lying/spinning/don't care about the feature I like. You can say "X game has this feature, why doesn't Y game have it now as well?" rather than be like "well it's not there because they hate us." You're not going to be able to "prove" you're right about a developer's inner feelings, so it's just more useful to stick to what can or cannot be improved or fixed.
Or, someone can just not post about it if that's all someone is going to bring to the table is "lol devs are liars" because that's, ya know, always an option.
Again, venting is a thing and I understand what you're getting at, but the idea that venting equates to saying "they're lying" rather than just saying "this isn't good enough to me" are different things. One is assuming sinister underpinnings, and the other is simply stating I think you can do better at your job in terms of prioritizing things.
I agree mostly with your post but like I said you have to call a spade a spade. I was very specific in my post. I wasn't venting (perhaps others were), and I don't toss any criticism at SDS lightly. And if SDS looks at the history of my posts, it will know that. I was addressing this thread and that specific article only. We are rightly asked on this forum to choose our words carefully. I try to do that. If Nick is going to speak for SDS (and I know he knows this) he should too. You have to ask why give an interview whose questions focused primarily on franchise..there had to be a reason for it? Now Woodweaver (whom I respect greatly as a developer and has done an amazing job with gameplay) liked your post so perhaps he (or Nick) can explain where I have gone wrong in my interpretation of Nick's quotes.
Guys, leave the stupid crap out of your posts like “so people can whine and complain all they want” and your entire point will be taken more seriously. The second you throw out your degrading statement, the rest of your post pretty much becomes null.
You're right, I have deleted that part now. There really was no reason for it, just frustrated I guess. Thanks for calling me out. :)
I can't see a ton of people carrying over their saves and giving it a try but I can see others doing so. Maybe I will be one.
I just look at the possibilities. It just gives users a way to try franchise mode without tying them down to the long haul. Also, I may be able to bring a championship to my Blue Jays before 2025. :)
Quite simply, a lot of vitriol could be avoided if the studio was more transparent, like they were in the past. How many times do these very forums break into two factions of users where one side fights about having hope and waiting to see what’s in the franchise stream before being upset, versus another side who reads the tea leaves and can infer there will be no news, again?
The wedge dividing people on here isn’t all of our doing, sadly. A lot of this could be avoided. And while a lot of us do need to grow up, or come off from our condescending attitudes, the studio and it’s employees need to stop leading it’s customers on or keeping them in the dark. All of these promos and quick videos that are aligned with sites that are just pure advertising (GameStop Monday’s, IGN sitdowns) that constantly throw DD at the audience and suggest to preorder for those DD bonsuses are a slap in the proverbial face of the rest of the consumers that are waiting for word on how near nothing was done to their favorite mode, again.
People are upset that the developers have gone from focusing on the little things and franchise or season mode updates with entire streams or threads of interaction dedicated to these things, to having the rugs being pulled out from them and having things being removed. Or waiting until 2-3 weeks before release to mention there was not much, if anything done to a major mode.
There’s no excuse to take personal shots at developers or make crazy and uneducated claims of laziness etc. But there also can’t be bending over backwards to accept things for what they are if you’re dissatisfied with a product. Just remember, a lot of fine lines need to be walked in order to be productive in criticizing and have your message be received and respected.
How does it do that, though? Once you're done with MtO, and you elect to begin a Franchise Mode with that team, you are immediately thrown into the "long haul" scenario. It's not like the MtO experience continues for multiple seasons.
And MtO itself is an even lighter than light "Franchise" experience...I mean, no injuries, only one curated trade allowed, no minor league rosters to manage, scouting to perform, training to set up, etc.
So MtO goes from "Franchise Lite-Lite" to the "cumbersome" (dev's word, not mine) full-on Franchise mode. I get why they are doing it, but I really don't know how the "casual" gamer will enjoy that jump from MtO to Franchise.
They are not stupid. They know we are a franchise community. Why consistently post on a forum looking for feedback when they know what we want. If we were a DD focused forum they'd be here all the time. Not to mention in the last 5 years there social media presence has taken over as the main form of communication.
You just seem to always defend SDS like you are Leonidas of the Spartans. It's in near every thread. Constructive criticism is okay. After all we are here to talk about the game. Not to please the devs so they can comment on a post once a week.
Take it easy on countryboy. He doesn’t need me to speak up for him but he’s been here every day for the 365 days since last years game was released, by far one of the most knowledgable and enthusiastic contributors on here.
I do appreciate the hard work from the people who make this game, I really do, but for the past few years their hard work has been on things I do not care about as a baseball fan and a gamer, and thus I haven't spent money on the game in a few years and that will unfortunately not change this year.
I'm not one of those people that continues to visit a forum and post when I've decided I'm not buying a game or don't like it, so see you guys in February of 2020!
I guess so.
It's an honest question. I don't even attempt the grinds when they look as daunting as this past years immortals did.
I think the other part that makes it tricky is that as I'm doing the Immortal programs, I'm also doing tons of other programs or missions etc. So it's not a 1 to 1 comparison for how my time is being invested, while in franchise it's all going directly to that one purpose. I give The Show a lot of credit for being able to multitask in a single game -- it's one reason why not having multiple DD lineups before this season was a pain in the arse -- and so now carrying that over to other modes I really like. I'm not usually a checklist kind of gamer who wants to knock out things just because they exist in a list -- I need more motivation than that -- but getting to do a ton of things at once and scratch off a lot of boxes on that checklist does at least turn me into that a bit more.
This is a good way to frame a concern I think. You're using an element that's been shown to extrapolate something further down the line. I don't think I 100% agree with this concern in that I think a new way of framing a mode doesn't mean the old stuff goes away, but if the thought is more focus is on storyline stuff than OOTP-style stuff down the line, then yeah I get that. When I worked at EA, we had tons of things pointing to how long people played franchises -- which can be chicken/egg arguments because is it the mode or is it just how people play -- but a very high number of peeps played just a single season. It's been a couple years now since I've been there so things could have changed, but I've personally always been more a believer in making that one full season awesome for the player rather than making a perfect sim engine if I have to choose. But, again, I think there is room for both in that you can have a sound OOTP base, but then trick it out with cool linear or branching stuff for that first year. They're not mutually exclusive and obviously they're tuned and designed completely differently.
I wasn't pointing out your post to call you out as some villain, I'm just saying looking for motives and stuff just isn't worthy of much time because you're not going to get answers or responses from those involved on the whole. It's a no-win situation. You do it again in this post, which is your call, but I'm just saying it's speculation that will go nowhere. Plus, I don't think it really matters here because we're trying to talk about games and how they're doing more than why a person chose to talk about something.
And in the case of the fictional minor league ballparks,make some upgrades. Add seating in the outfield, add a better video screen or scoreboard, etc. Being fictional there’s obviously more scope to customise them.
I’m just throwing around some ideas where I think SDS could make improvements with largely very little work that would at least make an improvement.
It seemed like a missed opportunity tbh
I think MTO sounds cool and I’m looking forward to trying it but it can’t be spun in anyway to make me feel better about franchise. Partly because we were told that MTOs mere existence is why franchise didn’t get a substantial overhaul. Kinda makes me a little mad at MTO to be honest lol. But the biggest reason why it can’t be spun to me is because quicker ways to get through a franchise isn’t really what most of the people who play franchise are really looking for.
So as it’s own mode I think it’s great. The more modes the better there’s just no way it can be spun to make me feel better about the direction we are headed.
I like franchise and I’m ok with how it is now. It really is what it is. It just sucks to know that they really are headed in the opposite direction of where I would like to go. They really seem determined to figure out how to get more people to play franchise while I wish they would focus more on the ones that already play it. Maybe that’s a necessity. I dunno I’ll leave it up to smarter people than me to decide. It just sucks that it seems like the main belief at SDS to bring more gamers into franchise is by speeding it up.
To be fair, it seems like this addition isn't that significant from a player standpoint, but working in IT for 30 years I have learned that just because something seems like it should be easy to implement does not mean that it actually is easy.
Maybe it took a week. Maybe it took months. We as the players will never know for sure.
And in the case of the fictional minor league ballparks,make some upgrades. Add seating in the outfield, add a better video screen or scoreboard, etc. Being fictional there’s obviously more scope to customise them.
I’m just throwing around some ideas where I think SDS could make improvements with largely very little work that would at least make an improvement.
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Coming in MLB The Show 20. Stadium Program. Unlock all your stadium customized ribbon boards with all new Stadium Packs available as DD rewards!!!!
Hahaha!
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And MtO itself is an even lighter than light "Franchise" experience...I mean, no injuries, only one curated trade allowed, no minor league rosters to manage, scouting to perform, training to set up, etc.
So MtO goes from "Franchise Lite-Lite" to the "cumbersome" (dev's word, not mine) full-on Franchise mode. I get why they are doing it, but I really don't know how the "casual" gamer will enjoy that jump from MtO to Franchise.
Right, but remember we are talking about new players to the "franchise" way of playing. So not having injuries means they get to play with their favorite players for the season. I mean who hasn't been peeved to see your best player go down for an extended period of time. Hardcore franchise guys see it as an opportunity to bring up a rookie to give him a shot or trade for someone who can help this season, but the majority of players that they may be trying to attract to franchise just want to be able to play with Bryce Harper all season.
Since there are no injuries the minors become irrelevant, again the people that are perhaps trying this for the first time might not want that concern. Same with scouting, training, etc.
I am not saying this will for sure get more people involved in franchise, but it can't hurt.
And in the case of the fictional minor league ballparks,make some upgrades. Add seating in the outfield, add a better video screen or scoreboard, etc. Being fictional there’s obviously more scope to customise them.
I’m just throwing around some ideas where I think SDS could make improvements with largely very little work that would at least make an improvement.
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Maybe it took a week. Maybe it took months. We as the players will never know for sure.
It was also pointed out that Mar to Oct was born from them trying to upgrade franchise. How much time was spent on Mar to Oct before they realized it would be better as a stand alone mode. All that time was was spent trying to improve franchise mode, so it is tough to say they didn't spend their time or even most of their time on franchise mode.
Since there are no injuries the minors become irrelevant, again the people that are perhaps trying this for the first time might not want that concern. Same with scouting, training, etc.
I am not saying this will for sure get more people involved in franchise, but it can't hurt.
Maybe I am missing something, but how does this translate into new, "casual" players wanting to continue into Franchise Mode? MtO gives you a singular trade to "make"...that is it when it comes to Franchise-type activities in that game mode.
If a casual player doesn't want to participate in scouting, injury management, minor league rosters, trades, contracts, the Rule 5 Draft, etc., why would they ever even consider jumping into Franchise right after MtO in the first place?
If a casual player doesn't want to participate in scouting, injury management, minor league rosters, trades, contracts, the Rule 5 Draft, etc., why would they ever even consider jumping into Franchise right after MtO in the first place?
To preface, I am a franchise mostly player but to answer the question.
Maybe they really liked playing with that team or those players and want to repeat as champion or maybe they just missed the playoffs, etc. and want to improve upon their record.
I can see it at as a bridge to franchise and a fun mode for us to try. Some will like to and some won't.
If a casual player doesn't want to participate in scouting, injury management, minor league rosters, trades, contracts, the Rule 5 Draft, etc., why would they ever even consider jumping into Franchise right after MtO in the first place?
This could be a gateway drug for lack of a better term to a much younger generation of baseball video gamers to take it to the next step and go all in on franchise mode. Again they can play franchise mode with everything on auto at first and begin to familiarize themselves to all the intricacies of the mode.
If 1 out of 10 or even 1 out of 20 become franchise mode players it is a win.
I don’t think some people realize how daunting franchise mode can be for a new young gamer/sports gamer.
If you are not growing you are dying.
We need new franchise mode players folks. And that is going to come from the new generation of MLB The Show players.
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Make your franchise your own world use your imagination and build your own story lines. Alot of us are using roster from mlb 17 with year to year carry overs so who cares about a full single A roster make up your own if that is something that is really bothering you. Mlb the show 18 was by far the best sports game I have ever played and I'm sure Mlb 19 will not disappoint.
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If 1 out of 10 or even 1 out of 20 become franchise mode players it is a win.
I don’t think some people realize how daunting franchise mode can be for a new young gamer/sports gamer.
If you are not growing you are dying.
We need new franchise mode players folks. And that is going to come from the new generation of MLB The Show players.
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There's a lot of logic in this statement. I just don't see some kid who is not already a baseball fan falling into the show. But if there is a chance then I am all for it.
I just think there's an untapped market. If RTTS is their most-played mode as Nick says (and I have no reason to not believe that), then there's still a very large single-player playerbase, one that clearly doesn't get as much exposure on social media like this forum or twitter. And it's unlikely that that market, which currently plays a very focused, streamlined RTTS experience, is avoiding franchise because it lacks features. It seems much more likely to me that it's being avoided because that market finds it too complicated.
So we have MTO, which is also focused and streamlined, but instead deals with a team instead of a single player, and covers the entire season+playoffs. I could see a mode like that being far easier for this RTTS market to get into. Then at the end of all of it, they are one step away from Franchise. Some might want to go into it to continue whatever story they've created, some won't. But every one of them that does adds to the Franchise player base, and increases the incentive for SDS to improve it in the future.
That's where my feelings on it are right now.
So we have MTO, which is also focused and streamlined, but instead deals with a team instead of a single player, and covers the entire season+playoffs. I could see a mode like that being far easier for this RTTS market to get into. Then at the end of all of it, they are one step away from Franchise. Some might want to go into it to continue whatever story they've created, some won't. But every one of them that does adds to the Franchise player base, and increases the incentive for SDS to improve it in the future.
That's where my feelings on it are right now.
Makes sense. Like old adage says "throw enough ish to a wall, and see what sticks". I guess if you cast a big enough net your bound to catch something. But all of MTO rewards are DD incentives. What leads you to believe a RTTS player will have any motivation to give it a whirl?
And in the case of the fictional minor league ballparks,make some upgrades. Add seating in the outfield, add a better video screen or scoreboard, etc. Being fictional there’s obviously more scope to customise them.
I’m just throwing around some ideas where I think SDS could make improvements with largely very little work that would at least make an improvement.
The problem I have with the create-a-stadium argument they've made in the past is it's so circular...we can't add it in because it would take so much work and we want to "do it right." And, because it would take so much work, we don't even try to add it in (because it would take so much work and you'd never get any other franchise mode upgrades). So, we just exist in a state of paralysis about the whole idea.
I do think you have something with innovating a little bit if they're not willing/able to innovate a lot. Makes sense to me.
Maybe it took a week. Maybe it took months. We as the players will never know for sure.
You would know more than me as I've never worked in IT. But, wouldn't it seem strange to decide to slog away at something for months that would only be received as a minor deal? It doesn't pass the smell test, imo. Pick something else that would be easier and would be received with more exultation. Maybe they are conflating the legal effort (?) it took with development effort...as a customer, I don't really care about their lawyer's billable hours in this matter. lol
That's a pretty big stretch for a franchise mode player to accept. I click on FRANCHISE and the mode is the same (with some updated contracts). That's the bottom line. What they worked on is a different mode. Maybe that mode pays dividends for us down the line, but we're talking '20 or '21 before anything positive happens in that respect (if it were to happen at all). By then, franchise guys might be playing 'Pitchfork Simulator' instead.
Like I said, I get the setup...MtO leading to Franchise. I hope it works, draws many new players into the mode, and results in The Show 20 featuring an updated Franchise Mode.
But the fact that DD rewards are the end goal of MtO, combined with the fact that MtO lacks most of what makes Franchise enjoyable (to me anyway...minors, custom rosters, injuries, scouting, training, etc.) leaves me in a super-cautious "wait and see" approach that MtO is going to magically increase the "casual" users in Franchise to a point that it gets more attention than DD or even RttS.
But again, I do appreciate the discussion and ideas.
I fear, with society's short attention spans, it's difficult to sell people on the idea of playing 162 games, no matter how good the gameplay is.
I like the concept of March to October. It allows you to play critical moments so you build an attachment to the team you're controlling, but you don't have to worry about playing 162 games.
Like A&S said, perhaps MTO pushes some gamers to do a deeper dive and become more immersed and they check out the full franchise mode.
I can see MTO being built up to be played over multiple seasons, too. I have no problem with this. Franchise Mode will still be there and while we will always have gripes/qualms and wishlist items, at the end of the day what is in MLB The Show is very good and a lot of fun to play through ... even if you don't make the World Series.
I will be buying 19 and for sure carrying over my Mets franchise, but also trying out the new mode. After a 2-season grind, I wouldn't mind a condensed experience.
Getting them into franchise after experiencing MTO goes back to what Armor was saying about creating stories - if people get attached to their team's ride through the season, then they might be interested in seeing what lies beyond - and perhaps being a little more receptive to everything available in franchise in order to experience that.
Honestly I think it's brilliant, if that's actually the plan. It's what my train of thought leads me to.
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It's become tiring listening to these same arguments over the last 3-4 years. I suggest that SDS pursue a new strategy of getting players into Franchise by actually making substantial improvements to Franchise.
Don't lock anything up Don't force me to trade Simplicity Simplicity simplicity The rosters are my rosters I don't need any of today's players. The ability to trade my players no waivers.
Here's an example of one of over 400 of my players
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It's become tiring listening to these same arguments over the last 3-4 years. I suggest that SDS pursue a new strategy of getting players into Franchise by actually making substantial improvements to Franchise.
Same was said about DD. That mode was to be a rising tide to lift all boats to paraphrase the late JFK. The cash they'd make would allow them to invest in all the other modes that were less monetized. That was the argument at the time, much like people are arguing MTO today. Hasn't really happened that way (my opinion). I'd be happy to be wrong about that with a face-meltingly awesome development cycle for franchise mode in the future.
A thousand times this.