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EA Sports UFC 3 New Stamina Updates

EA Sports UFC 3

EA Sports UFC 3 New Stamina Updates

Based off of feedback from the EA Sports UFC 3 beta, the team has made some adjustments to stamina. Check out what lead gameplay engineer Geoff Harrower (AKA GamePlayDevUFC) has to say about it and post your thoughts!

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  1. Although speed reduction was a big complaint, I don't think anyone had an issue with stamina in terms of balance. It was very easy to punish someone with low stamina
    So was there anything done to offset this stamina nerf?
    This is pretty great, might want to make sure jab-bodykick gets fixed otherwise that'll be ridiculous in the full game!
    In all seriousness,this is great, it'll make body kicks a way more legitimate mixup because people will be less willing to eat them than they were before, and all my work on timing switch kicks underneath jabs is going to pay off now instead of being a pretty big waste if someone went full defense once their stamina dropped.
    Only thing more that I'll request is that clinch strikes, body ground and pound strikes do long term damage as well. As of now the only way to truly deplete stamina and grind the opponent is by hitting their body in the stand-up or making them miss.
    TehFlame
    Although speed reduction was a big complaint, I don't think anyone had an issue with stamina in terms of balance. It was very easy to punish someone with low stamina
    So was there anything done to offset this stamina nerf?

    It's not really a nerf, it's only a VISUAL representation of what will inevitably happen in real life if youre stamina is depleted. This is perfect and doesn't need a balancing aspect. As far as I'm concerned this is balancing at its finest!!!! Great example of a development team listening to its players.
    XBGT: Jodie McGregor
    w00t :y220b::y220b::y220b:
    Find_the_Door
    Only thing more that I'll request is that clinch strikes, body ground and pound strikes do long term damage as well. As of now the only way to truly deplete stamina and grind the opponent is by hitting their body in the stand-up or making them miss.

    Absolutely Agree. In UFC 2 (and Beta it seemed) --- if I wanted to grind someone's stamina, do I clinch them up and work their body? Put them flat on their back and make them really work while I land GnP?
    Nope. Almost impossible to grind stamina that way in-game ---- but really, those scenarios should be very taxing (for both fighters but definitely for the one getting thrown around/beat up)
    Phillyboi207
    Omg YES
    This is probably the best development team ever.
    Imagine if they ever get the resources /budget of a franchise like madden

    Best development team ever? Oh wow, I seriously hope you're joking. I mean come on, that's just absolutely ridiculous.
    Not_Entertained
    Best development team ever? Oh wow, I seriously hope you're joking. I mean come on, that's just absolutely ridiculous.

    Good thing opinions exist.
    Im sure the ones you think are better get 5-10 year cycles to make their games.
    This team has turned this franchise around from the turd that was EA UFC 1.
    GPD needs to be in charge of the whole thing. It’s pretty clear that whatever he touches turns to gold.
    Phillyboi207
    Good thing opinions exist.
    Im sure the ones you think are better get 5-10 year cycles to make their games.
    This team has turned this franchise around from the turd that was EA UFC 1.
    GPD needs to be in charge of the whole thing. It’s pretty clear that whatever he touches turns to gold.

    And opinions can be down right nonsense like yours. So, yeah.
    Nice, can't wait for the other videos demonstrating the differences.
    Man GPD, you sound tired as hell in the video. Must be quite demanding these days since we're so close to the release.
    Not_Entertained
    Best development team ever? Oh wow, I seriously hope you're joking. I mean come on, that's just absolutely ridiculous.

    I'm biased but I've never seen a sports game dev team be as responsive, open and willing to listen to the community as this one. NBA 2k comes close though.
    Acebaldwin
    Nice, can't wait for the other videos demonstrating the differences.
    Man GPD, you sound tired as hell in the video. Must be quite demanding these days since we're so close to the release.

    Things are calming down quite a bit now. Last real week of work before we're hands off.
    The last two months though have been taxing though.
    There's also a weird feeling when you finish a long creative project like this. It defines your life for a long time, especially at the end when you're working long hours.
    The satisfaction of a job well done helps, but it only goes so far.
    It's a big part of your life that's just all of a sudden gone, and it feels weird. Like not really sure what to do with yourself anymore. That feeling along with the feeling of being a bit burned out is a bit of a shell shock, and not something you'd really expect looking in from the outside.
    Been through it before though, time to refuel...by recording some more videos for you guys.
    aholbert32
    I'm biased but I've never seen a sports game dev team be as responsive, open and willing to listen to the community as this one. NBA 2k comes close though.

    You know what, looking back at my posts I came across as an a hole! Sorry to you and to the other guy, I overreacted unfortunately :o
    aholbert32
    I'm biased but I've never seen a sports game dev team be as responsive, open and willing to listen to the community as this one. NBA 2k comes close though.

    Mike Wang is a good guy.
    This is a nice change, i just hope the game doesnt become a body hunting stand up fights, but at least the people that love to hug high block will be forced to mix in their defence.
    Id like to see more long term stamina drain for body shots in clinch and ground aswell, i dont like the seperate stamina for grappling and stand up but it seems like it wont be combined so at least make the grappling stamina more affected when hit to the body after successive blows aswell.
    I hope this means the stamina bars, health bars and GA bars can be removed for UT and Ranked play. Keeping it on will actually promote spamming to the area, the thought on not knowing the true damage of your opponent will make it much better and using your knowledge of how many times you have rocked your opponent, or how much they been missing strikes or the amount of body/leg ****s you have gven them will be better.
    I just kinda wished there was another closed beta, because it seems like alot of things are being changed from the beta and it may be better but new problems could arise, but i guess we will wait until release then 1st patch.
    GameplayDevUFC
    Things are calming down quite a bit now. Last real week of work before we're hands off.
    The last two months though have been taxing though.
    There's also a weird feeling when you finish a long creative project like this. It defines your life for a long time, especially at the end when you're working long hours.
    The satisfaction of a job well done helps, but it only goes so far.
    It's a big part of your life that's just all of a sudden gone, and it feels weird. Like not really sure what to do with yourself anymore. That feeling along with the feeling of being a bit burned out is a bit of a shell shock, and not something you'd really expect looking in from the outside.
    Been through it before though, time to refuel...by recording some more videos for you guys.

    Must be rough man, but I think I heard you had some kids? Ain't nothing like having some more time with your kids to get over something like that, it changes your mind quite a bit. Though I'm saying that only as a godfather to a cute little 1 yo girl, and having no kids of my own, so if she annoys me too much, at the end of the day I can just go and leave her with her parents :D. :y220a:
    Take care of yourself during that well earned break! We need you back in form for the 4th UFC game. :y1:
    I just noticed something is it me or at 35 seconds into the vid, the tired mcgregor lands but the fresh mcgregor doesnt land when they throw their 1-2s at the same time????
    Is this because the fresh mcgregor head throws slightly quicker and his head meets the end of the tired mcgregor 1-2 because of the way animation /frame ends up.
    Also is the power still the same but just the speed of the strike is just slower?? Or both are reduced? Are signature strikes like the overhand slower? What about technique strikes?
    Trillz
    I just noticed something is it me or at 35 seconds into the vid, the tired mcgregor lands but the fresh mcgregor doesnt land when they throw their 1-2s at the same time????
    Is this because the fresh mcgregor head throws slightly quicker and his head meets the end of the tired mcgregor 1-2 because of the way animation /frame ends up.
    Also is the power still the same but just the speed of the strike is just slower?? Or both are reduced?

    The power was already reduced in the beta, and I,m sure they've stuck to their gun with this one seeing how it makes perfect sense that being gassed comes with lesser power behind your strikes.
    Not_Entertained
    You know what, looking back at my posts I came across as an a hole! Sorry to you and to the other guy, I overreacted unfortunately :o

    Its all good man.
    TheUFCVeteran
    Yes yes yes! Looks so much better, and those animations also look really nice. Awesome work, GPD and co, thank you!

    We were in a bit of a pickle because the fatigued locomotion set we have is too over the top to use in this case.
    Luckily we had a low gloved heavyweight set that at low speeds did the trick.
    So that's what you're seeing, all fighters revert to a low glove heavyweight loco set when tired.
    GameplayDevUFC
    We were in a bit of a pickle because the fatigued locomotion set we have is too over the top to use in this case.
    Luckily we had a low gloved heavyweight set that at low speeds did the trick.
    So that's what you're seeing, all fighters revert to a low glove heavyweight loco set when tired.

    Hey, if it works, it works! It definitely fits IMO. By the way, does the gassed state change/look a little different if you choose a different locomotion set for a CAF? Would be interesting if so.
    Looks ****ing great man. Well done.
    I actually think the speed is perfect for how much stamina you have at different points in the video. It's realistic and balanced at the same time. Fights will still be winnable but you'll have to play VERY well. Which is how it should be.
    This also now means that people are going to be discouraged massively from gassing themselves out in one or two rounds. Should hopefully mean we'll see fights go the distance more often.
    There is also now a ton of risk in spending all your stamina trying to finish someone inside two rounds... Even if you are skilled. Which again, enhances realism. You got it bang on.
    The other part we're currently play testing is toning down some of the stamina advantages guys like Diaz have to make them less OP, without losing that feeling that the stamina ratings matter.
    I think what you see in the video, along with these changes will put things in a really good place.
    Where those the guys in the beta that could get away with 150+ strikes per round and still end the fight with a large capacity of stamina? My other hope was to see those numbers go down a bit.
    Yaari
    Where those the guys in the beta that could get away with 150+ strikes per round and still end the fight with a large capacity of stamina? My other hope was to see those numbers go down a bit.

    Yeah, I would think so.
    Diaz was basically the highest end of stamina you could get, and Diakiese was probably the lowest.
    I wouldn't want to touch Diakiese, he felt just right and any more of a stamina nerf to him would be too much in my opinion.
    Diaz was clearly too strong.
    DaisukEasy
    This development team is single-handedly restoring my faith not just in EA, but gamedevelopers in general.

    Yup, I wasn't sure about picking up UFC 3 at launch, but these changes might have convinced me. Not only because they address one of the bigger concerns I had, but it shows that the dev team is really paying attention and are committed to delivering a great product.
    GameplayDevUFC
    Things are calming down quite a bit now. Last real week of work before we're hands off.
    The last two months though have been taxing though.
    There's also a weird feeling when you finish a long creative project like this. It defines your life for a long time, especially at the end when you're working long hours.
    The satisfaction of a job well done helps, but it only goes so far.
    It's a big part of your life that's just all of a sudden gone, and it feels weird. Like not really sure what to do with yourself anymore. That feeling along with the feeling of being a bit burned out is a bit of a shell shock, and not something you'd really expect looking in from the outside.
    Been through it before though, time to refuel...by recording some more videos for you guys.

    Seeing this makes me really excited for all the other changes that were made post beta this one was a huge one and it only gets better from here , I really appreciate you GDP and your team for listening to our concerns and addressing them head on to make this game enjoyable and entertaining I know for sure they’re are more changes that we don’t know about yet that will make this game even better. Id love more grappling positions and more ground positions as well lol pretty sure that was added too , thanks a lot GDP
    To me... The clinch and ground game needs quite a lot of improving right now so personally, I'm not that concerned about it. I think the striking is getting close to the point where there will only be minor tweaks after every release. Kinda like you see with the other EA sport games.
    That's not to say that I don't want the ground game and clinch improving. I just think that a lot of that will have to be the main focus for UFC 4. I don't think it's very realistic to hope for major improvements to the clinch and ground game. There's just too much work to do.
    It's not like it's not playable in it's current state or anything. It just feels too static and limited. Imagine if the grappling fluidity and animations are improved as much as the striking fluidity was from UFC 2 to 3.
    I feel like it's better to put most of the emphasis on the part of the game that is the most fun (which is where my bias comes in). I'm also just lucky to be in the majority in that most people prefer striking.
    Serengeti95
    To me... The clinch and ground game needs quite a lot of improving right now so personally, I'm not that concerned about it. I think the striking is getting close to the point where there will only be minor tweaks after every release. Kinda like you see with the other EA sport games.
    That's not to say that I don't want the ground game and clinch improving. I just think that a lot of that will have to be the main focus for UFC 4. I don't think it's very realistic to hope for major improvements to the clinch and ground game. There's just too much work to do.
    It's not like it's not playable in it's current state or anything. It just feels too static and limited. Imagine if the grappling fluidity and animations are improved as much as the striking fluidity was from UFC 2 to 3.
    I feel like it's better to put most of the emphasis on the part of the game that is the most fun (which is where my bias comes in). I'm also just lucky to be in the majority in that most people prefer striking.

    The ground is nowhere near as bad as the clinch!
    That video is very encouraging, good looking animations there. GPD is definitely doing his best to polish this game up before launch. With stamina now being addressed, I'll be interested in seeing how just that alone will change how fights play out. Stamina along with the head movement not feeling as responsive as I want were my biggest issues with the stand-up game.
    And maybe, just maybe we'll finally get hidden opponent stamina? Keep hope alive.
    Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
    Pappy Knuckles
    That video is very encouraging, good looking animations there. GPD is definitely doing his best to polish this game up before launch. With stamina now being addressed, I'll be interested in seeing how just that alone will change how fights play out. Stamina along with the head movement not feeling as responsive as I want were my biggest issues with the stand-up game.
    And maybe, just maybe we'll finally get hidden opponent stamina? Keep hope alive.
    Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

    Yup. The head movement is my other biggest concern too. Both of these being addressed is going to do wonders if they get to the head movement as well.
    Straight punches being too effective at close range too, but by the sounds of it... That's going to be changed.
    YES! This is exactly what was needed. Well done dev team, you have my money. This was my biggest gripe, and the fatigued footwork at the end looked great. This is exactly what was missing in the beta.
    Solid_Altair
    What concerns you about head movement?

    The inability to use it reactively is my primary concern. Which may be because of input lag or strikes being too fast... or a number of things. It also doesn't feel smooth enough. You don't have enough angles with it. It's not a 360 rotation. You can't slip while using minimum head movement. You have to sway right to the side or duck. This means boxing on the outside feels quite clunky. It's very common to just slip a straight punch by a margin on the outside for example... Because it leaves you in a better position to counter with your own straight punch. The movement and counter flows more fluently.

    Go to 2:50 in this video. In UFC 3 this isn't possible. You have to sway straight down to the side. If there is more of a 360 control of the head movement... Slipping combos will be easier and feel better as well.
    Now, I'm aware that this is probably a tough ask for UFC 3. Which is why I'd be happy with just the overall head movement feeling more responsive and being easier to use reactively.
    Pappy Knuckles
    That video is very encouraging, good looking animations there. GPD is definitely doing his best to polish this game up before launch. With stamina now being addressed, I'll be interested in seeing how just that alone will change how fights play out. Stamina along with the head movement not feeling as responsive as I want were my biggest issues with the stand-up game.
    And maybe, just maybe we'll finally get hidden opponent stamina? Keep hope alive.
    Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
    Man, I really really want the stamina and health bars to be hidden in ranked matches at the very least. That alone would make some serious change to how the game is played, and now that the stamina is tuned up the way we wanted with the locomotion and animations being affected, it would be that much better with the opponents bars removed from our sight.
    Please make it happen GPD.
    It'd be such a missed opportunity to make the game that much more of a simulation if it aint added.
    Serengeti95
    Looks ****ing great man. Well done.
    I actually think the speed is perfect for how much stamina you have at different points in the video. It's realistic and balanced at the same time. Fights will still be winnable but you'll have to play VERY well. Which is how it should be.
    This also now means that people are going to be discouraged massively from gassing themselves out in one or two rounds. Should hopefully mean we'll see fights go the distance more often.
    There is also now a ton of risk in spending all your stamina trying to finish someone inside two rounds... Even if you are skilled. Which again, enhances realism. You got it bang on.

    This! This is exactly what I wanted...you're not a slug or a sitting duck or anything around 50%. You're still at a decent speed to be fairly competitive but if you keep draining lower that's when you start heading into "sitting duck" territory. I like it.
    That are some good changes. But i really hope they also listened when it comes to fighter random selection. Give us a fighter picture with a question mark or filter to enable that makes fights automatically random without having mirror matches happen when selected random. Also we need a rematch button after fights that where coming from game invites,so the fight starts instant with no loading screens again. Would like to know if we getting at least a random button it really annoys me to do it at my own every time.
    WarMMA
    This! This is exactly what I wanted...you're not a slug or a sitting duck or anything around 50%. You're still at a decent speed to be fairly competitive but if you keep draining lower that's when you start heading into "sitting duck" territory. I like it.

    Right. Also have to bear in mind that if you're in the position where you have like 15% stamina and the opponent has 100%... You're an idiot and obviously deserve to get KO'd lol. So I hope nobody is looking at that and thinking the movement difference is too much in that video. In a normal fight... you're both going to be moving somewhat slower.
    Btw can people please acknowledge my head movement post. I feel like I'm making a really good point but it's going under the radar. I feel like people don't realise how much cooler the head movement would be if there was more range of motion.
    Serengeti95
    The inability to use it reactively is my primary concern. Which may be because of input lag or strikes being too fast... or a number of things. It also doesn't feel smooth enough. You don't have enough angles with it. It's not a 360 rotation. You can't slip while using minimum head movement. You have to sway right to the side or duck. This means boxing on the outside feels quite clunky. It's very common to just slip a straight punch by a margin on the outside for example... Because it leaves you in a better position to counter with your own straight punch. The movement and counter flows more fluently...

    Thank you for reminding me. I think we had talked about this in another thread. Just wanted to confirm.
    Sorry for partially de-railing this one.
    Solid_Altair
    Thank you for reminding me. I think we had talked about this in another thread. Just wanted to confirm.
    Sorry for partially de-railing this one.

    I feel like you're dismissing what I'm saying as nonsense? lol. I've brought it up a few times... and it is never any less valid. But for some reason it's just ignored. I'm not sure if it's partly because I'm doing a poor job of explaining or if it's because people don't realise how much it could help the mechanic out.
    I mean people want realism, right? This is ESSENTIAL for realism in terms of head movement. That video I posted is just a rundown of basic head movement.
    Naturally that link REFUSES to play the video for me.
    So I'm going to assume the best and slink off to a corner to cry because I can't watch it.
    My weirdness aside, if this has added a speed differential based on stamina, which, from the comments, I assume it has, then WOOO, and a big thankyou to GPD and the team for listening to our feedback.
    Now if you'll excuse me, I have a working copy of a video to find on a phone that renders 1 in every 10 webpages correctly.
    Edit, watched the video, even better than I expected, and exactly what I wanted to see, I am so keen, glad I already was stamina concious.
    GREAT JOB. Seriously. Heros among men. Gangsta.
    I woke up to this, so I'm overreacting with early morning vigor.
    Thanks guys.
    Working off you’re back should be tuned more, seems as though the strikes off your back do no real damage, they should count to the head damage meter because they actually are effective in real life , look at the Tony Ferguson vs Kevin lee fight , Tony’s bottom game hadn’t Kevin in all sorts off hell he was doing damage with elbows and punches kevin didn’t even want to be on top of him because of the damage he was taking I think bottom strikes should matter
    Finesse7
    Working off you’re back should be tuned more, seems as though the strikes off your back do no real damage, they should count to the head damage meter because they actually are effective in real life , look at the Tony Ferguson vs Kevin lee fight , Tony’s bottom game hadn’t Kevin in all sorts off hell he was doing damage with elbows and punches kevin didn’t even want to be on top of him because of the damage he was taking I think bottom strikes should matter

    The elbows from the bottom full guuard should do more dmg, at least for people with razor elbow perks but in generally it should open cuts more and do damage!
    Serengeti95

    Btw can people please acknowledge my head movement post. I feel like I'm making a really good point but it's going under the radar. I feel like people don't realise how much cooler the head movement would be if there was more range of motion.

    I agree with you 1000%
    --------------------------
    Take a look at this thread I made a while back, detailing all the technical aspects of the UFC 2 head movement system. Many people are unaware of many of the things you can actually do within it.
    https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-ufc/910309-head-movement-system-guide-w-videos.html
    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    Literally every technique in that thread has been removed from UFC 3 for some reason.. :confused::confused::confused:
    -------------------
    There are a bunch of video examples in the thread I posted of me crushing people with slick counters utilizing fluid headmovement.




    Annnnd some more fun ones..
    Serengeti95
    I feel like you're dismissing what I'm saying as nonsense? lol. I've brought it up a few times... and it is never any less valid. But for some reason it's just ignored. I'm not sure if it's partly because I'm doing a poor job of explaining or if it's because people don't realise how much it could help the mechanic out.
    I mean people want realism, right? This is ESSENTIAL for realism in terms of head movement. That video I posted is just a rundown of basic head movement.

    Oh, no no no! Sorry if it sounded dismissive. It was not my intent. It's just that I don't have any new argument for you. And we had discussed this stuff in another thread. I disagree with all your points but I don't think they're non-sensical or that they should be dismissed. I think your position (maybe some, maybea ll those points) was held some GC or two, actually.
    Solid_Altair
    Oh, no no no! Sorry if it sounded dismissive. It was not my intent. It's just that I don't have any new argument for you. And we had discussed this stuff in another thread. I disagree with all your points but I don't think they're non-sensical or that they should be dismissed. I think your position (maybe some, maybea ll those points) was held some GC or two, actually.

    Explain yourself.
    How on earth could fluid, realistic head movement be a bad thing?
    What are you talking about man.....
    Haz____
    I agree with you 1000%
    --------------------------
    Take a look at this thread I made a while back, detailing all the technical aspects of the UFC 2 head movement system. Many people are unaware of many of the things you can actually do within it.
    https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-ufc/910309-head-movement-system-guide-w-videos.html
    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    Literally every technique in that thread has been removed from UFC 3 for some reason.. :confused::confused::confused:
    -------------------
    There are a bunch of video examples in the thread I posted of me crushing people with slick counters utilizing fluid headmovement.




    I dont get that post at all, it is still possible to chain slips and lean strikes together. Still possible to bob n weave, leaning and then ducking under to the other side in one swoop motion.
    Do you just want the head movement to be faster and have more range? That should be bound to the head movement stat of the fighter you're playing as.
    I agee that having the 360 full control head movement of fn would be fantastic and much better, but UFC 3 still has good head movement, and as a player who usesa whole lot of head movement, I actually prefered it to UFC 2.
    Acebaldwin

    I agree that having the 360 full control head movement of fn would be fantastic and much better.

    This.
    Now I know you have real boxing experience...... You know for a fact there is waaay more to head movement than just flicking a stick up or down, and slipping left or right, or just ducking.
    It's crazy how simplified head movement in UFC 3 is.
    I want fluid head movement
    Also the point of the post is to showcase, with examples, techniques that can not be done in UFC 3. Almost every technique in the thread I listed can no longer be done in UFC 3.
    I'm also willing to bet what you really prefer about UFC 3, is the vulnerability system, which makes playing a head movement, counter striking game more effective, and viable.
    You seem to pretty fully much agree that fluid head movement in UFC 3 would make the game better.
    Haz____
    This.
    Now I know you have real boxing experience...... You know for a fact there is waaay more to head movement than just flicking a stick up or down, and slipping left or right, or just ducking.
    It's crazy how simplified head movement in UFC 2 is.
    I want fluid head movement
    Man dont talk about my boxing experience, Ive heard enough of you crying over how I would constantly say I did boxing for years and you'd exagerate my accomplishments to make it seem like it was BS. Just dont go there again, even if its to compliment.
    On topic now, how can you trash on ufc 3's head movement, yet give a video of ufc 2 praising it and saying that all techniques demonstrated in your videos had been removed from ufc 3 when it is in fact not true and you can still do it?
    Acebaldwin
    Man dont talk about my boxing experience, Ive heard enough of you crying over how I would constantly say I did boxing for years and you'd exagerate my accomplishments to make it seem like it was BS. Just dont go there again, even if its to compliment.
    On topic now, how can you trash on ufc 3's head movement, yet give a video of ufc 2 praising it and saying that all of it had been removed from ufc 3 when it is in fact not true and you can still do it?

    It's not a compliment. It is yet another dig as to how you alwaaays bring it up. Catch on faster.
    And no. Click the link. Look at the thread. None of that can be done in UFC 3.
    -No fluid 360 head movement
    -No Dash/Lunge strikes
    -No Lean Jab
    -Reworked Sway strikes
    The whole entire system has been removed, and replaced with flick up or down. Sure you can chain flicks, but there is no fluid system.
    You can stand in place and move your head but it is sticky, slow, and unresponsive.
    And i'm not "Bashing" anything. UFC 3 will be a fun game. It is undeniable though, that it will be more fun with fluid, responsive head movement.
    Quite a few of the head movement techniques in the videos you posted you can still do. However, it doesn't feel as fluid and responsive.

    Here's an example of something you can't do in UFC 3. Watch the first two punches thrown and notice how the head is moved slightly to the right which dodges the first punch. The head is then moved further to the right to dodge the second. In UFC 3 this is simply not possible.
    Serengeti95
    Right. Also have to bear in mind that if you're in the position where you have like 15% stamina and the opponent has 100%... You're an idiot and obviously deserve to get KO'd lol. So I hope nobody is looking at that and thinking the movement difference is too much in that video. In a normal fight... you're both going to be moving somewhat slower.
    Btw can people please acknowledge my head movement post. I feel like I'm making a really good point but it's going under the radar. I feel like people don't realise how much cooler the head movement would be if there was more range of motion.

    I'm with you 100% dude (as usual haha)
    I didn't like 2's headmovement at all.
    But I still completely agree, because of FNC, that game did head movement perfectly in my opinion, UFC 2 tried to emulate it, but lacked a good accuracy system and damage rendering based on where a strike landed wasn't up to scratch.
    So you cant roll with strikes in UFC 2 like you can in FNC.
    They did patch 2's headmovement to be a little more risk reward eventually.
    But my point is, to my eyes, a six year old boxing game made by the SAME company utterly mastered head movement. Why aren't they trying to emulate, recreate that?
    Imagine FNCs head movement, but dynamically avalible at all times, avalible while moving, while blocking (you could block and sway in FNC)
    So count me in. I don't think UFC 2 had better head movement than UFC 3, despite UFC 2 having 360* reactive head movement, because it wasn't particularly well done, left right strafing makes the fighter moving their head cancel the movement and reset, so you can easily disrupt someone trying to bob and weave.
    But I do believe FNC has better head movement than UFC 3, and that is reactive. Real time headmovement, and its utterly fantastic, go play it if you have it, you'll feel the difference, you'll see all the angles you dont get in 3, or even 2.
    Instead of swaying 7 inches away from a straight before countering a la 2&3, in FNC you can move you head just out of the way. So the glove is allllmost lightly rubbing your ear on the way past, then unload a lightening quick counter that would have been slower if yous fully extended then thrown it.
    Still, this is about my only gripe with UFC 3 now that the stamina has been fixed.
    Haz____
    It's not a compliment. It is yet another dig as to how you alwaaays bring it up. Catch on faster.
    And no. Click the link. look at the thread. None of that can be done in UFC 3.
    -No fluid 360 head movement
    -No Dash/Lunge strikes
    -No Lean Jab
    -Reworked Sway strikes
    The whole entire system has been removed, and replaced with flick up or down. Sure you can chain flicks, but there is no fluid system.
    You can stand in place and move your head but it is sticky, slow, and unresponsive.
    Keep on making yourself look like a little man lol.
    And the hell are you even spouting. Everything you've show n in your little videos, I did in the beta. I've leaned and jab, which obviously made a leaning jab, same with the straight, hooks and uppercuts. I've chained a leaned straight with a lead hook to the body and a rear leg kick as fluidedly if not more than in UFC 2. You also can move your head same as in UFC 2 if you hold the stick after flicking giving you control to duck under to the other side.
    Have you played the beta or not? Quit talking out of your ***.
    AeroZeppelin27
    II do believe FNC has better head movement than UFC 3, and that is reactive. Real time headmovement, and its utterly fantastic, go play it if you have it, you'll feel the difference, you'll see all the angles you dont get in 3, or even 2.
    Instead of swaying 7 inches away from a straight before countering a la 2&3, in FNC you can move you head just out of the way. So the glove is allllmost lightly rubbing your ear on the way past, then unload a lightening quick counter that would have been slower if yous fully extended then thrown it.

    You said it perfectly.
    Acebaldwin
    Keep on making yourself look like a little man lol.
    And the hell are you even spouting. Everything you've show n in your little videos, I did in the beta. I've leaned and jab, which obviously made a leaning jab, same with the straight, hooks and uppercuts. I've followed leaned straight with a lead hok to the body and a rear leg kick as fluidedly if not more than in UFC 2.
    Have you played the beta or not? Quit talking out of your ***.

    You're such an ego maniac, we actually agree on the topic of discussion right now, and you're still arguing with me. LOL :star:
    Haz____
    You're such an ego maniac, we actually agree on the topic of discussion right now, and you're still arguing with me. LOL :star:
    "Literally all the techniques in the videos has been removed in ufc 3!!1!1!"
    Wasnt that you who said that? Not because we agree on the absolute control given in FNC being better, means theres nothing to argue about. Like your f'up agenda of spouting BS that aint true for exemple.
    Acebaldwin
    "Literally all the techniques in the videos has been removed in ufc 3!!1!1!"
    Wasnt that you who said that? Not because we agree on the absolute control given in FNC being better, means theres nothin to argue about your f'up agenda of spouting BS that aint true.

    You have a lot of growing up to do bud. We're on the same team.
    AeroZeppelin27
    I'm with you 100% dude (as usual haha)
    I didn't like 2's headmovement at all.
    But I still completely agree, because of FNC, that game did head movement perfectly in my opinion, UFC 2 tried to emulate it, but lacked a good accuracy system and damage rendering based on where a strike landed wasn't up to scratch.
    So you cant roll with strikes in UFC 2 like you can in FNC.
    They did patch 2's headmovement to be a little more risk reward eventually.
    But my point is, to my eyes, a six year old boxing game made by the SAME company utterly mastered head movement. Why aren't they trying to emulate, recreate that?
    Imagine FNCs head movement, but dynamically avalible at all times, avalible while moving, while blocking (you could block and sway in FNC)
    So count me in. I don't think UFC 2 had better head movement than UFC 3, despite UFC 2 having 360* reactive head movement, because it wasn't particularly well done, left right strafing makes the fighter moving their head cancel the movement and reset, so you can easily disrupt someone trying to bob and weave.
    But I do believe FNC has better head movement than UFC 3, and that is reactive. Real time headmovement, and its utterly fantastic, go play it if you have it, you'll feel the difference, you'll see all the angles you dont get in 3, or even 2.
    Instead of swaying 7 inches away from a straight before countering a la 2&3, in FNC you can move you head just out of the way. So the glove is allllmost lightly rubbing your ear on the way past, then unload a lightening quick counter that would have been slower if yous fully extended then thrown it.
    Still, this is about my only gripe with UFC 3 now that the stamina has been fixed.

    ****ing this exactly. Gamechangers/Devs... If you've been reading the last few pages... Please take all of this into consideration and speak up! This would be an incredible improvement and I think there's quite a few people who don't realise what they're missing.
    Haz____
    You have a lot of growing up to do bud. We're on the same team.
    Quit acting like a punk and I might stop stooping to your level.
    Stopping overexagerating over things you can still do by saying things like you did above also might do the work. The whole post of yours that you quoted wih the videos of ufc2 have no meaning really.
    Acebaldwin
    Quit acting like a punk and I might stop stooping to your level.
    Stopping overexagerating over things you can still do by saying things like you did above also might do the work. The whole post of yours that you quoted wih the videos of ufc2 have no meaning really.

    They show fluid 360 responsive head movement, which you can not do in UFC 3. And has been confirmed by GPD. I'm not exaggerating anything. According to GPD- In UFC 2 Headmovement was read digitally, which took into account hit boxes, hit detection, etc. In UFC 3, Headmovement is read Analogous, which means, a certain slip dodges certain strikes, a different slip dodges a different strike. Black and white. No matter what. There is no subtle fluid movement.
    Literally the things you can do in UFC 2 are not possible in UFC 3.
    FNC is obviously an even better example.
    Solid_Altair
    Do you think you should teleport away from the punch?

    What? Where did that question even come from? You’re the one that’s trying to turn the game into Mortal Kombat.
    Head movement can be used in reaction to an incoming strike. Plenty of great posts have already been made concerning it(Sugata,Serengeti95, Haz).
    Serengeti95
    ****ing this exactly. Gamechangers/Devs... If you've been reading the last few pages... Please take all of this into consideration and speak up! This would be an incredible improvement and I think there's quite a few people who don't realise what they're missing.

    I’m sure it’s been seen by the devs since you guys bring it up in damn near every thread. Lol.
    I don’t know what they are going to do. It’s not a consensus even among the community that head movement is an issue. Also there is no guarantee that fnc like head movement would easily work with the new movement and animations. With that said, who knows. Maybe they will make those changes.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    aholbert32
    I’m sure it’s been seen by the devs since you guys bring it up in damn near every thread. Lol.
    I don’t know what they are going to do. It’s not a consensus even among the community that head movement is an issue. Also there is no guarantee that fnc like head movement would easily work with the new movement and animations. With that said, who knows. Maybe they will make those changes.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Lol. It wouldn't be brought up as much if it was acknowledged more. I hate bringing it up over and over just as much as you dislike seeing it... trust me lol. I feel like a broken record.
    It is a consensus among the community that the head movement needs buffing actually (It's actually on the concise list of things we want changing). I'm just giving further details and ideas on how to buff it while also promoting realism.
    Serengeti95
    Lol. It wouldn't be brought up as much if it was acknowledged more. I hate bringing it up over and over just as much as you dislike seeing it... trust me lol. I feel like a broken record.
    It is a consensus among the community that the head movement needs buffing actually (It's actually on the concise list of things we want changing). I'm just giving further details and ideas on how to buff it while also promoting realism.

    With all due respect, how do you acknowledge it? The devs aren’t going to speak on it until they are ready to address it. The people who disagree aren’t likely to say much because you guys are aggressive against anyone who disagrees when it comes to this point.
    I wouldn’t say it’s a consensus yet. The stamina stuff feels like everyone on their forums thought it was needed. I’d say a consensus has formed around removing ur opponents stamina bar online.
    Head Movement? I think there is a very vocal group that wants a change. That group could be the majority but I’m seeing some people who don’t think it’s an issue or don’t really care.
    It’s not my call though. I’m ok with the head movement as is but if it can be improved I’m all for it.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    aholbert32
    With all due respect, how do you acknowledge it? The devs aren’t going to speak on it until they are ready to address it. The people who disagree aren’t likely to say much because you guys are aggressive against anyone who disagrees when it comes to this point.
    I wouldn’t say it’s a consensus yet. The stamina stuff feels like everyone on their forums thought it was needed. I’d say a consensus has formed around removing ur opponents stamina bar online.
    Head Movement? I think there is a very vocal group that wants a change. That group could be the majority but I’m seeing some people who don’t think it’s an issue or don’t really care.
    It’s not my call though. I’m ok with the head movement as is but if it can be improved I’m all for it.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Can we just make a poll?
    I cant imagine anyone that wouldnt want FN style head movement.
    It’s impossible for it to be OP due to kicks/grappling
    aholbert32
    With all due respect, how do you acknowledge it? The devs aren’t going to speak on it until they are ready to address it. The people who disagree aren’t likely to say much because you guys are aggressive against anyone who disagrees when it comes to this point.
    I wouldn’t say it’s a consensus yet. The stamina stuff feels like everyone on their forums thought it was needed. I’d say a consensus has formed around removing ur opponents stamina bar online.
    Head Movement? I think there is a very vocal group that wants a change. That group could be the majority but I’m seeing some people who don’t think it’s an issue or don’t really care.
    It’s not my call though. I’m ok with the head movement as is but if it can be improved I’m all for it.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Don't mean to come off aggressive. That's only when someone argues against it with no actual points. Kinda like Solid asking if we want the ability to teleport away from a punch (lol). Thus far... The only two people who have disagreed that I've seen are Solid and RetractedMonkey. Neither of them have given actual arguments against it. I more so attribute it to their misunderstanding of what we want and how positively it could impact the game, honestly.
    I assure you that there have been a ton of people who have mentioned the head movement being off. Not all of them have gone into deeper detail or ideas to improve it though.
    There really is no reason to disagree though. I'm not just saying that because it fits my narrative. I just don't see any reason as to why it wouldn't be a very good idea to make the changes spoken about in this thread. Nobody has actually offered a decent argument yet. Just dismissive comments.
    aholbert32
    I’m sure it’s been seen by the devs since you guys bring it up in damn near every thread. Lol.
    I don’t know what they are going to do. It’s not a consensus even among the community that head movement is an issue. Also there is no guarantee that fnc like head movement would easily work with the new movement and animations. With that said, who knows. Maybe they will make those changes.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    I understand the adding FNC-like headmovement at this stage of development isn't really possible, what confuses me is simply the fact they didn't use it in the first place.
    Now, I understand boxing headmovement and MMA headmovement are two different things, you can be looser in boxing, you don't need to retain balance at all times as there is bo risk of a blast double, ect ect. So its not like a direct copy paste of the FNC system is a cure-all.
    But it is the superior system when done properly.
    If the game contains realistic accuracy measurement, where fighter A's strike is thrown at the position fighter B was in WHEN the input registered, then the FNC system should work fine, its hard for me to articulate this properly.
    Look at FNC, let's say you have Mike Tyson power overhand coming your way (the shot where he essentially tries to murder space and time itself and wings his whole being into the strike) essentially, under that accuracy system, you had from the moment the strike input registered to get out of the way, so, to the eye, you see mike load up on the right, you can reactively (with a fighter with high headmovement) you can sway left with the punch, pull back at the apex, come back up and fire off a countershot to a completely off balance Mike.
    It's hard to articulate, but the level of control you have is unrivalled, the feeling it gives is fantastic, yet its not a system so advanced that you need months of practice to become even casual players can still pull off counters, but the system once mastered is extremely rewarding, deep, and true to the sport.
    It also allows for unorthodox techniques, say, swaying in the direction of a punch, but using the forward-backward range control to adapt mid sway and either avoid the punch or reduce the damage from your mistake, again, very hard to articulate for me, but the system was much deeper than I believe the analouge "this dodges that" system we've apparently moved to.
    I realise "this dodges that" is over simplification, its a little deeper than that as range does seem to play a nice factor in deciding if a strike lands (I've swayed into hooks that have still missed because they threw from too far out and the actual hooking motion of the hook made the strike too short to connect despite the fact I was vulnerable to it)
    Sorry if this is a mess, I really, really can't put it to words as well as I'd like.
    That is effing fantastic.
    Now if you just could tell me the work on the KOs system is making the same progress in realism as the stamina then I've nothing left to cry about. :D
    Well maybe the UT balance but hey I'm a simple man I can survive without that mode...
    Serengeti95
    Don't mean to come off aggressive. That's only when someone argues against it with no actual points. Kinda like Solid asking if we want the ability to teleport away from a punch (lol). Thus far... The only two people who have disagreed that I've seen are Solid and RetractedMonkey. Neither of them have given actual arguments against it. I more so attribute it to their misunderstanding of what we want and how positively it could impact the game, honestly.
    I assure you that there have been a ton of people who have mentioned the head movement being off. Not all of them have gone into deeper detail or ideas to improve it though.
    There really is no reason to disagree though. I'm not just saying that because it fits my narrative. I just don't see any reason as to why it wouldn't be a very good idea to make the changes spoken about in this thread. Nobody has actually offered a decent argument yet. Just dismissive comments.

    What’s a “ton” though? I’m not trying to discount what this community says because I was a member of this OS community before half of you were here. I’m just saying that just because the majority of people here may think it there needs to be a change, that doesn’t mean it’s a lot of people.
    I don’t really have an opinion on the issue but here are some reasons that people could disagree.
    FNC has full 360 head movement which is perfect for boxing. The large majority of MMA fighters don’t use that. Guys like Anderson do but I’d argue that the majority of UFC fighters use head movement similar to what we saw in the beta.
    Also we don’t know what changes are being made post beta that could make the head movement more responsive.
    We don’t know if fnc style head movement would work with the animations they have no capped.
    We also don’t know how difficult it would be to add that even if it was possible.
    I would like it to be more responsive but if not sure I want fnc style head movement in an mma game. With that said, I could care either way and if it makes u guys happy, I’m all for it.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Solid_Altair
    Do you think you should teleport away from the punch?

    That's such a silly straw man.
    He's talking responsiveness, you're talking animation speed..
    aholbert32
    What’s a “ton” though? I’m not trying to discount what this community says because I was a member of this OS community before half of you were here. I’m just saying that just because the majority of people here may think it there needs to be a change, that doesn’t mean it’s a lot of people.
    I don’t really have an opinion on the issue but here are some reasons that people could disagree.
    FNC has full 360 head movement which is perfect for boxing. The large majority of MMA fighters don’t use that. Guys like Anderson do but I’d argue that the majority of UFC fighters use head movement similar to what we saw in the beta.
    Also we don’t know what changes are being made post beta that could make the head movement more responsive.
    We don’t know if fnc style head movement would work with the animations they have no capped.
    We also don’t know how difficult it would be to add that even if it was possible.
    I would like it to be more responsive but if not sure I want fnc style head movement in an mma game. With that said, I could care either way and if it makes u guys happy, I’m all for it.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Put it this way... Before MartialMind put out that video about the stamina not having a visual effect... Did you notice that opinion around all that much? I definitely didn't. This is why I'm trying to go on about it. The more visibility it gets... The more it will spread. Unfortunately, we're just some random dudes on a forum and don't have the influence of MartialMind. But I have no doubt whatsoever that if he put a video out asking for changes here... You'd start seeing tons of people on the bandwagon. Sometimes you just don't know what you want :05: (no homo).
    As far as it not being applicable to MMA... That isn't true. Watch Aldo from the Aldo/Holloway rematch. Watch RDA from a few nights ago. They are constantly slightly moving their heads off the center line. I don't think people are keyed into how much head movement is actually used in fighting because they're just not watching it intently enough.
    As far as Cody and Anderson style head movement (going from frame to frame to avoid multiple strikes in a combination very efficiently)... That's where stats come into play. It should be much easier for those guys than it is for the average guy in the UFC.
    GameplayDevUFC
    At the risk of inviting the wrath of all the fight night fans...
    I think fight night's head movement system is better suited to boxing.

    That's fine, but can you give us out 360 head movement back from UFC 2 then?
    Why was it taken out in the first place if it worked great?
    In UFC 3(the beta atleast) The head movement is either down up right or left..... this feels like an extremely watered down version of UFC 2's version.
    aholbert32
    What’s a “ton” though? I’m not trying to discount what this community says because I was a member of this OS community before half of you were here. I’m just saying that just because the majority of people here may think it there needs to be a change, that doesn’t mean it’s a lot of people.
    I don’t really have an opinion on the issue but here are some reasons that people could disagree.
    FNC has full 360 head movement which is perfect for boxing. The large majority of MMA fighters don’t use that. Guys like Anderson do but I’d argue that the majority of UFC fighters use head movement similar to what we saw in the beta.
    Also we don’t know what changes are being made post beta that could make the head movement more responsive.
    We don’t know if fnc style head movement would work with the animations they have no capped.
    We also don’t know how difficult it would be to add that even if it was possible.
    I would like it to be more responsive but if not sure I want fnc style head movement in an mma game. With that said, I could care either way and if it makes u guys happy, I’m all for it.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    I get what your saying here. And it does make sense.
    I definitely get that while we may want FNC Esq head movement, its far too late in development for a full overhaul, but I'd say there are still things there that could be incorporated, and the system itself should definitely be looked at again in the next installment perhaps.
    I also agree that full 360* headmovement isn't anywhere near as prominent as it is in boxing for obvious reasons, but its still a more realistic way of doing headmovement I believe, youd still be able to do everything you can do in UFC 3 (quick sways left right, oulli.g back, ducking, as well as holding said positions) but it'd also give guys with good, high level headmovement the ability to slip, counter and use various angles like they would.
    I believe it should be there. Even if its not super common. As it is used often enough to dictate its inclusion in my eyes.
    Guys with low headmovement stats, to offset them becoming Anderson Silva, should simply be able to do the 4 main directional sways at the usual speed for average headmovement fighter, but be significantly slower when trying to use full 360* movement from a static position.
    Basically, you'd flick to dodge with these types of fighters and use a lot more block and range, whereas a guy like Anderson, or Cruz, could stand infront of a headhunter and male them miss with quick, reactive slips, so you'd be able to flick dodge or hold the stick and use various angles, looks, ect, but also incorporate the stamina regeneration cancelling of FNC, so a fighter using 360* movement cannot regain stamina while swaying, this way you can't just strike until your gassed then reactively counter people while your stamina regenerates.
    Yes it gives fighters with good headmovement an advantage. But it's a realistic advantage, and given there is no sway block, a few body shots, and headmovement slowing witg
    h stamina drain. Could keep it balanced.
    Just a quick idea of how it could be incorporated.
    But I definitely get your point that we shouldn't expect this kind of change at this point in development. I'd love to see elements that can be included this time around to be added if possible.
    I have faith they'll do what they can with what's there at the very least, 1 & 2 taught me that much. Can't fault the teams support.
    TreJayMMA
    That's fine, but can you give us out 360 head movement back from UFC 2 then?
    Why was it taken out in the first place if it worked great?
    In UFC 3(the beta atleast) The head movement is either down up right or left..... this feels like an extremely watered down version of UFC 2's version.

    I don't think 360 head movement adds a lot to the game to be honest.
    I think the 360 feeling of control adds value is the sense that it feels better, but if we were to try and get that back I would try to implement it as a skin on top of what we have. Keep the frame tuning aspect of the current system with 360 control as a nicer facade.
    GameplayDevUFC
    At the risk of inviting the wrath of all the fight night fans...
    I think fight night's head movement system is better suited to boxing.

    I'll be honest... I haven't played FNC (maybe a couple of times round a friends house). So I can't really comment here... but from what others have said about it... it sounds much more suitable than what we have currently. Maybe there are ways of taking certain aspects from it and not others?
    What's clear is that the range of motion of head movement is not good enough in UFC 3. MMA fighters are constantly moving their heads off the center line but not leaning right to the side with knees very bent.



    These are just a few examples I quickly googled but they can be seen in basically any fight. Giving us more range of motion will allow us to be much more creative with head movement. It will also make boxing on the outside shine more. I want exchanges like in the Claudia gif to be possible.
    I do think a secondary style of head movement that was more subtle, but gave full 360 control could add some value, although I haven't put enough thought into it to really see where it would fit in from a gameplay standpoint.
    But it would be secondary to what we have now, and not a primary line of defense.
    GameplayDevUFC
    I don't think 360 head movement adds a lot to the game to be honest.
    I think the 360 feeling of control adds value is the sense that it feels better, but if we were to try and get that back I would try to implement it as a skin on top of what we have. Keep the frame tuning aspect of the current system with 360 control as a nicer facade.

    I think 360 head movement would add an entirely different dynamic if you could cancel out of it into any strike/grapple.
    I also really like the idea of the 4 directional sways being available for most but elite head movement unlocks TJ, Cody, Anderson type head movement.
    With that said,as long as responsiveness is tuned i’d be okay with the current system
    aholbert32
    FNC has full 360 head movement which is perfect for boxing. The large majority of MMA fighters don’t use that. Guys like Anderson do but I’d argue that the majority of UFC fighters use head movement similar to what we saw in the beta.

    Why does that matter how many of them use it? It's part of fighting. They're able to do that and use it occasionally.
    The reason you don't see that kind of movement as much in MMA as in boxing is because of kicks, knees, take downs etc.
    But every now and then you see this:

    We don’t know if fnc style head movement would work with the animations they have no capped.

    They were on the right track with UFC2, not sure why they changed it..
    I would like it to be more responsive but if not sure I want fnc style head movement in an mma game.

    What are you talking about? You had something close to it with UFC2.
    Right now, when you dodge in any direction, you're committed. That animation will play start to finish. How's favorable over having more control..?
    Say I expected my opponent to throw a right hook and so I dip to my right, if I then realize he's actually going to throw a left uppercut, I should be able to go from my bottom-right lean to leaning back.
    With the current system, I'd be committed to swaying right and going back to the center-line. Where I'd likely meet that uppercut I saw coming and would be able to react to if the game let me.
    Never mind the fact that I want to be able to lean in certain directions not only to make it ambiguous what I'm going to do, but also to invite certain strikes from my opponent only to barely make them miss with my catlike reflexes (or get knocked out like a buster).
    Seriously, not having full control head-movement is as weird as not having full control footwork. Imagine if the only way to move was by doing the little hops when you flick your stick..
    That's exactly how silly the current head-movement system is. Not sure why some of you aren't seeing it.
    Btw, wouldn't it be possible to have both with a modifier?
    'modifier button' + right stick = 360 movement when stationary. Anything else is the current system. Everybody happy?
    GameplayDevUFC
    I do think a secondary style of head movement that was more subtle, but gave full 360 control could add some value, although I haven't put enough thought into it to really see where it would fit in from a gameplay standpoint.
    But it would be secondary to what we have now, and not a primary line of defense.

    Awesome! I can shut up about it a bit more now lol. I understand you're not saying it's going to be changed... But I'm glad to hear your opinion on it.
    As far as it not being a primary line of defense... I'm not really sure I understand what you mean? It's a defense that's used very often on the outside. It is the primary defense there because it's the only amount you need to move. As fighters are just anticipating a straight punch. This also leaves them in a better position to counter on the outside.
    The best way to counter a straight punch in UFC 3 currently is to sway or duck, make your way on the inside... and hit your opponent with an uppercut or hook (like the GIF below). And that's basically the way everyone played on the beta.

    This is just one way in which 360 head movement could change the dynamics of the striking (albeit, a very important one).
    All's I'm saying is.. LOOK INTO IT
    GameplayDevUFC
    We were in a bit of a pickle because the fatigued locomotion set we have is too over the top to use in this case.
    Luckily we had a low gloved heavyweight set that at low speeds did the trick.
    So that's what you're seeing, all fighters revert to a low glove heavyweight loco set when tired.
    Thank you again for allowing me the pipeline to charter my Nog requests/suggestions. Very much looking forward to this game.
    I just dusted off Fight Night Round 3 on 360 last week right after the UFC 3 beta ended and and was in la-la land imagining that head movement system in UFC 3. Whether or not it is necessary or would work the same in an MMA game aside, it felt AMAZING and I had so much fun using the head movement alone that I thought about picking up FNC just to play around with it. It's just so smooth, responsive, and effective. The control alone just feels great and rewarding in itself.
    The experience was also fun and eye opening since those game handle stamina so well and are closer to the recent changes that were just made to UFC 3. You have no HUD during the fight but you always know exactly what is happening by looking at movement, punch speed, and visual damage. The fighters move around the ring much differently when they are tired both in speed and technique, and react to punches differently as well.
    My first fight was using featherweights and I would just evade punches and go to the body for the first 6 rounds and by the 8th the difference was clearly visible. I didn't have any stamina meters but I could clearly see my opponent had lost considerable stamina because they were much slower and spamming the same punches they did in the first round just wasn't possible by the 8th. I could see big shots coming and react to them much better which made all of the defensive work and body shots I put in earlier feel so rewarding. When I landed punches they visually had much more of an effect than they did in the first round because of the stamina difference.
    The thing that caught my eye the most was the way weight classes and ratings were so visually distinct. After the first fight with featherweights I used Frazier against Ali and my body hooks literally picked Ali off of the ground and I saw different hit reaction animations and heard different power punch grunts using Frazier with 97 power than I saw or heard using featherweights with 55 power.
    With the amazing control, close camera, no HUD, and great sound and animations everything felt so visceral and immersive.
    DaisukEasy

    Seriously, not having full control head-movement is as weird as not having full control footwork. Imagine if the only way to move was by doing the little hops when you flick your stick..
    That's exactly how silly the current head-movement system is. Not sure why some of you aren't seeing it.

    Bro... I feel exactly the same way lol. I've thought of giving the analogy that it's like leaving a hook out of the boxing catalogue. Or leaving out a leg kick out of the types of kicks you can throw.
    It really needs to be changed. And because there are no parries or small slips on the outside... The defensive options while boxing on the outside are basically not there at all. You can lean right to the side... But there's no point in not moving forward and throwing a hook off of that. Returning a straight after leaning all the way to the side is way too slow. This means you either end up with people having a straight punch spam fest on the outside... Or they duck and uppercut/hook.
    The pull counter works decently in the game.... but again is kinda slow and quite unresponsive. You can definitely pull it off but you're going to fail it much more than you're going to succeed doing it.
    The stamina changes sound pretty sweet! Looks like my biggest complaint about the beta has been addressed. Will the stamina tweak make everybody happy? Well we all know the answer to that lol. It sounds much better than what it was like on the beta,and after we all get to play it for a bit in the final game maybe can be tweaked a little more if necessary but we all need a little time playing it before that's decided. I can't wait to see what other changes have been made! Keep up the good work,dev team!
    Serengeti95
    ****ing this exactly. Gamechangers/Devs... If you've been reading the last few pages... Please take all of this into consideration and speak up! This would be an incredible improvement and I think there's quite a few people who don't realise what they're missing.

    As you saw by GPD's post, it has been considered.
    I'm glad that's clearer, now.
    I wonder if anyone could dig some somewhat recent thread specifically about head movement, so we could continue to discuss it there, if you guys would wish so. But maybe GPD already said everything.
    I hope this doesn't sound smug, but what people think they want for head movement wouldn't actually make any difference (or would make things worse). I'm willing to go into detail about this claim, in a thread actually about it.
    DaisukEasy
    Seriously, not having full control head-movement is as weird as not having full control footwork. Imagine if the only way to move was by doing the little hops when you flick your stick..
    That's exactly how silly the current head-movement system is. Not sure why some of you aren't seeing it.
    Btw, wouldn't it be possible to have both with a modifier?
    'modifier button' + right stick = 360 movement when stationary. Anything else is the current system. Everybody happy?

    I understand how that may appeal to intuition. But they are very different. Diagonal movement and the diagonal spectrum are both important for "dancing". Diagonal head movement isn't required at all.
    I'm excited to see these changes from the beta. Glad to see the difference and impact of Stamina on movement, combos, & speed. I feel like this will definitely make a more realistic pace for fights making stamina management that much more important.
    Solid_Altair
    As you saw by GPD's post, it has been considered.
    I'm glad that's clearer, now.
    I wonder if anyone could dig some somewhat recent thread specifically about head movement, so we could continue to discuss it there, if you guys would wish so. But maybe GPD already said everything.
    I hope this doesn't sound smug, but what people think they want for head movement wouldn't actually make any difference (or would make things worse). I'm willing to go into detail about this claim, in a thread actually about it.

    This thread has been derailed for several pages already (you started it so it's all your fault btw). Not to mention that everybody loves the change in the OP. Not really much to discuss on that anymore.
    It'd definitely make a difference if done correctly. Whether it being done correctly would mean adjusting other things in the striking is another question.
    I've explained it numerous times now and it's not being taken much notice of... but the boxing on the outside would change drastically with 360 head movement (talking about how it'd change boxing on the outside specifically not being taken notice of). It would be a small thing that would lead to a lot of different possibilities.
    Here we go again with this head movement business and everyone thinking they have all of the answers. Haz telling people they have big egos again and Serengeti saying no one has any counter points while continuing to be a broken record and reusing the same gifs we've seen 50 times. All the while, neither of them realize they are projecting their own traits onto other people. I'm glad GPD actually said five words to you just to get you to calm down even though I'm 100 percent sure he's seen it as many times as us.
    To clarify one last time just because I still have a little faith in humanity and really hope you can tear those bricks off your head to actually listen instead of just waiting for your turn to speak: I don't think minor head movement is a bad idea. I was making fun of the fact you were so adamant about it. You would find ways to make a topic about minor head movement. It's hilarious.
    On paper, it actually sounds pretty good but there is no way to tell how it would flow with the actual gameplay for one. I have a feeling it would be a cumbersome system added on top of what we have now. Even if it worked perfectly, it DOESN'T MATTER. All it is is optics. Leaning far right or barely slipping your head would have no ultimate effect. The value in the computation is either a 1 or a 0. Either you dodge the punch or you don't. How far you visually see your fighter move plays no part in anything. Maybe put those animations in if you dodge the strike at a specific time. They can be automatic that way or something to that effect.
    For the love of god, please stop acting like this is the most important feature we could possibly have. Also, just because no one is speaking up to say they disagree, doesn't mean you have a consensus. People probably just see the way you latch on to dissent like a rabid dog and stay far away from the topic.
    P.S.: The mute/block function on this website is straight garbage. You can still see everything the other person does. These basic template forums are a vestige of the past era in the internet's life cycle. Like angelfire or AIM. Except it doesn't know it's dead yet.
    TreJayMMA
    That's fine, but can you give us out 360 head movement back from UFC 2 then?
    Why was it taken out in the first place if it worked great?
    In UFC 3(the beta atleast) The head movement is either down up right or left..... this feels like an extremely watered down version of UFC 2's version.

    UFC 2 head movement was pretty bad. Took little to no skill while most ppl would just lean back. UFC 3's Head movement had to be setup and could be punished if you got too predictable so.. :y220a:
    GameplayDevUFC
    I do think a secondary style of head movement that was more subtle, but gave full 360 control could add some value, although I haven't put enough thought into it to really see where it would fit in from a gameplay standpoint.
    But it would be secondary to what we have now, and not a primary line of defense.

    Pretty please with a lil sugar on top.
    That's how I kinda want it, just another layer of defense. I wouldn't say it should be a viable option for a lot of fighters, but it should be an option.
    Nobody can say the devs didn't listen. EA did a great Job of making those changes quickly! This is how the game should be especially online. As for offline that's what game sliders are for. Which we actually have now as well. I'm just not sure if game sliders are for only fight now custom or other offline modes as well.
    GPD! 3 Things i got to say:
    - I've watched the facebook video update and i saw a lot of casuals complaining about the complicated controls in the comments. I still believe you went in the right direction, making complex and rare spinning strikes etc. be possible by the press of complex controls, so that they are not as easily spammable, but i've mentioned this before, although i've gotten used to the uppercuts in the beta, i still believe it's too basic of a strike to be only possible by the press of 2 buttons, especially once you miss click, you end up throwing a kick, instead of an acceptable mistake like a jab.
    I still feel that punches(especialily the basic ones) should be possible under those controls:
    Triangle/Square -> Jab/Straight
    L1+ Triangle/Square -> Hooks
    R1 + Triangle/Square -> Uppercuts.
    L1+R1 + Triangle/Square -> Overhands
    Then take the advanced strikes such as: " Superman Punches, Spinning Fists,Spinning Elbows" and add them on the more complex X+Square/O+Triangle combined with holding L1 or R1 or both.
    The more advanced kicking strikes such as question mark kicks etc. should follow the logic of more complex inputs like X+Square/O+Triangle. I just don't think the basic Jab,Straight/Hooks/Uppercuts should be mixxed with the more advanced control.
    2nd Thing: I know it's most likely not possible at this stage, but Signature Hands Down 360 Headmovement with no Automatic Blocking, for guys like Anderson Silva/ Cruz, should be made possible by holding L1+ moving the Right Stick and they should avoid more strikes/combos but also be more vunerable and should be attempted only by people who have mastered that skill.
    3rd Thing: Although i didn't fully test this, i think Strike Fainting, should get a buff, by having it matter in the combo Multplier that breaks the block/makes strikes flow faster. (although this will be rarely used, since most combo strikes are happening too fast to input R2 and cancel them mid-animation) It could make low stamina users, use it more and not have them completely suck, once their stamina goes down that slows down their inputs/combos.
    At least a low stamina fighter, then would be able to throw a block breaking combo, without the full cost of it.
    No disrespect to anyone with good ideas or opinions but there are some of you that are going over the top with your requests. You guys have to realize that as much as we want this game to be realistic as it can be. It still has to be a game at the end of the day. It has to be a playable, fun and controllable game that thousands of people have to enjoy. Which means not every idea will, or needs to make it in the game. Some things you guys are asking for may be unnecessary or not right for the game or may unbalance the game. The developers have put a lot of time into this game. Im sure they wouldnt release a game that felt unfinished or broken. I have no doubt that this game will be fine when it releases. So im basically saying before UFC3 can be the most realistic mma game ever, It has to be a PLAYABLE GAME first.
    DaisukEasy

    Right now, when you dodge in any direction, you're committed. That animation will play start to finish. How's favorable over having more control..?
    Say I expected my opponent to throw a right hook and so I dip to my right, if I then realize he's actually going to throw a left uppercut, I should be able to go from my bottom-right lean to leaning back.
    With the current system, I'd be committed to swaying right and going back to the center-line. Where I'd likely meet that uppercut I saw coming and would be able to react to if the game let me.
    Never mind the fact that I want to be able to lean in certain directions not only to make it ambiguous what I'm going to do, but also to invite certain strikes from my opponent only to barely make them miss with my catlike reflexes (or get knocked out like a buster).
    Seriously, not having full control head-movement is as weird as not having full control footwork. Imagine if the only way to move was by doing the little hops when you flick your stick..
    That's exactly how silly the current head-movement system is. Not sure why some of you aren't seeing it.
    Btw, wouldn't it be possible to have both with a modifier?
    'modifier button' + right stick = 360 movement when stationary. Anything else is the current system. Everybody happy?

    What this guy said 100%
    It allows you to play reactively in boxing range. So changing headslots through more positions as opposed to the default 4 i.e. the fist actually has to find the head.
    In the beta we could only really pro-actively with defense i.e. try to read his move, time it and guess a direction.
    Both ways are needed.
    In terms of balance, elbows, kicks, TDs, miss timed head movement, all of these are dangerous counters to discourage head movement spam.
    Edit: defensive reactive options that worked in beta
    - movement
    - blocking
    Head movement would be a good third option.
    Edit2: the 1 0 on / off thing would have to go for it to be full 360. That's why perhaps it is more feasible to have an 8 slot system with the 1 0 on / off and develop something more 360 for the next title.
    Forward lean, forward left, left, back left, back, back right, right, forward right
    And yeah, definitely up for doing a dedicated thread on this and see Altair's position on it.
    Should make a new thread on it and details exactly what/how you want to see it, many good posts will get lost in this thread right now. I really hope they can make it happen too. What DaisukEasy says makes perfect sense to me.
    I know it's sometimes dumbfounding when you have an Idea you are sure would make the game more realistic and then you realize that "Oh crap, not everyone wants this"..... :confused:
    EVEN this stamina change has some people pissed off. "It's gonna make the game less fun, now everyone is just gonna play like Woodley, now the game will be boring"... I disagree ofcourse, but this is what it is.
    ALOT of people are not vocal UNTIL a change is confirmed that they don't like. They can see the idea swirling all around them and they won't say a thing, until it's confirmed that the change is happening, then all of a sudden, they all pop out like "Woah no, we didn't want that, now the game is ruined!!".
    You might genuinely think there's a consensus now with things like "Reactive Head movement" until the change is confirmed and everyone and their grandma starts complaining about how "No one will ever throw a combo now, it'll be too easy to counter strikes, everyone will feel like Anderson Silva etc".
    That said, I DO agree that head movement should be reactive. I want it to be reactive for one reason.... Because it is reactive in real life. Solid and others might have solid arguments against it when it comes to game balance but i'm of the opinion that if man could invent an Airplane, man can also figure out a way to keep things REALISTIC and BALANCED in a video game.
    This is an argument I've made for a while. I want head movement and counter speed to depend on how far you lean, and I want how far you lean to depend on how much you feather the stick. If I push the stick JUST slightly, I want my fighter to move his head JUST out of the way, still enough to slip but giving me the ability to counter very quickly.... Like fighters do in real life.
    Part of what a fighter learns is how to move his head JUST enough and still be able to counter.
    If I want pure defensive head movement, then I move my head like Cody was moving it against Cruz, bending heavy at the waist and leaning far.
    But as ZombieRommel explained to me a while back....
    Basically, in FNC your head is a beach ball and the opponent's fist tracks the beach ball. If it's still for too long it tracks properly. Time the slip right and it screws the tracking. In UFC3, its digital, the game sees:
    "If duck, then hook = miss"
    And the precise timing of head movement isn't as important.
    Does this dumb down AND restrict head movement? Yes it does without a doubt in a "Realism sense", BUT balance wise, the head movement in the game works.
    Not really sure what more could be said on the topic. Some people ALREADY think Head movement is too good in this game.... I know, crazy, but there are ALOT of people that would throw a massive fit if Head movement is buffed in anyway shape or form right now.
    Hell I want the ability to block and sway but I ain't holding my breath on that one.
    FNC's head movement was fantastic.. super fluid and responsive... felt very real time to me but it was a boxing game. I think, it is not unsuitable for a mma game because every fighters can't fight like Anderson Silva in REAL LIFE but some fighters have good head movement like a boxer in mma fight. so I hope they are going to separate their skill and some good fighters should have good head movement skill like FNC and the other not good fighters shouldn't have it.
    and the beta's head movement needs to be more tweaked because it felt very unresponsive... so we had to play as prediction when we used head movement.
    MartialMind
    I know it's sometimes dumbfounding when you have an Idea you are sure would make the game more realistic and then you realize that "Oh crap, not everyone wants this"..... :confused:
    EVEN this stamina change has some people pissed off. "It's gonna make the game less fun, now everyone is just gonna play like Woodley, now the game will be boring"... I disagree ofcourse, but this is what it is.
    ALOT of people are not vocal UNTIL a change is confirmed that they don't like. They can see the idea swirling all around them and they won't say a thing, until it's confirmed that the change is happening, then all of a sudden, they all pop out like "Woah no, we didn't want that, now the game is ruined!!".
    You might genuinely think there's a consensus now with things like "Reactive Head movement" until the change is confirmed and everyone and their grandma starts complaining about how "No one will ever throw a combo now, it'll be too easy to counter strikes, everyone will feel like Anderson Silva etc".
    That said, I DO agree that head movement should be reactive. I want it to be reactive for one reason.... Because it is reactive in real life. Solid and others might have solid arguments against it when it comes to game balance but i'm of the opinion that if man could invent an Airplane, man can also figure out a way to keep things REALISTIC and BALANCED in a video game.
    This is an argument I've made for a while. I want head movement and counter speed to depend on how far you lean, and I want how far you lean to depend on how much you feather the stick. If I push the stick JUST slightly, I want my fighter to move his head JUST out of the way, still enough to slip but giving me the ability to counter very quickly.... Like fighters do in real life.
    Part of what a fighter learns is how to move his head JUST enough and still be able to counter.
    If I want pure defensive head movement, then I move my head like Cody was moving it against Cruz, bending heavy at the waist and leaning far.
    But as ZombieRommel explained to me a while back....
    Basically, in FNC your head is a beach ball and the opponent's fist tracks the beach ball. If it's still for too long it tracks properly. Time the slip right and it screws the tracking. In UFC3, its digital, the game sees:
    "If duck, then hook = miss"
    And the precise timing of head movement isn't as important.
    Does this dumb down AND restrict head movement? Yes it does without a doubt in a "Realism sense", BUT balance wise, the head movement in the game works.
    Not really sure what more could be said on the topic. Some people ALREADY think Head movement is too good in this game.... I know, crazy, but there are ALOT of people that would throw a massive fit if Head movement is buffed in anyway shape or form right now.
    Hell I want the ability to block and sway but I ain't holding my breath on that one.

    What I dont understand us why people think that would hurt balance. With proper ratings most fighters head movement would be basic and slow. Plus even if you tried to act like Silva/Cody you would open yourself up to kicks,clinches, takedowns. It would force people to mix up their offense. Also the accuracy rating would matter much more. Head movement would be dangerous against accurate strikers.
    Usind that style of head movement should give your opponent huge GA, and it should make leg kicks do more damage.
    This isnt something I expect to change for this game but I do hope it’s really looked into for the next one.
    I’d love to Solid Altar’s argument for why it wouldnt work.
    MartialMind
    I know it's sometimes dumbfounding when you have an Idea you are sure would make the game more realistic and then you realize that "Oh crap, not everyone wants this"..... :confused:
    EVEN this stamina change has some people pissed off. "It's gonna make the game less fun, now everyone is just gonna play like Woodley, now the game will be boring"... I disagree ofcourse, but this is what it is.
    ALOT of people are not vocal UNTIL a change is confirmed that they don't like. They can see the idea swirling all around them and they won't say a thing, until it's confirmed that the change is happening, then all of a sudden, they all pop out like "Woah no, we didn't want that, now the game is ruined!!".
    You might genuinely think there's a consensus now with things like "Reactive Head movement" until the change is confirmed and everyone and their grandma starts complaining about how "No one will ever throw a combo now, it'll be too easy to counter strikes, everyone will feel like Anderson Silva etc".
    That said, I DO agree that head movement should be reactive. I want it to be reactive for one reason.... Because it is reactive in real life. Solid and others might have solid arguments against it when it comes to game balance but i'm of the opinion that if man could invent an Airplane, man can also figure out a way to keep things REALISTIC and BALANCED in a video game.
    This is an argument I've made for a while. I want head movement and counter speed to depend on how far you lean, and I want how far you lean to depend on how much you feather the stick. If I push the stick JUST slightly, I want my fighter to move his head JUST out of the way, still enough to slip but giving me the ability to counter very quickly.... Like fighters do in real life.
    Part of what a fighter learns is how to move his head JUST enough and still be able to counter.
    If I want pure defensive head movement, then I move my head like Cody was moving it against Cruz, bending heavy at the waist and leaning far.
    But as ZombieRommel explained to me a while back....
    Basically, in FNC your head is a beach ball and the opponent's fist tracks the beach ball. If it's still for too long it tracks properly. Time the slip right and it screws the tracking. In UFC3, its digital, the game sees:
    "If duck, then hook = miss"
    And the precise timing of head movement isn't as important.
    Does this dumb down AND restrict head movement? Yes it does without a doubt in a "Realism sense", BUT balance wise, the head movement in the game works.
    Not really sure what more could be said on the topic. Some people ALREADY think Head movement is too good in this game.... I know, crazy, but there are ALOT of people that would throw a massive fit if Head movement is buffed in anyway shape or form right now.
    Hell I want the ability to block and sway but I ain't holding my breath on that one.

    By the way I like how if you choose to strike, you strike - you commit, and are thus vulnerable to counters. So you have to pick your shots, not throw a wild hook but still have the safety net (the block). It's one or the other.
    Why I personally don't want 360 head movement in UFC 3 (I'd like it in a future game, but I don't want it in this one) is because of the analogue punch reading, which is something I really, really doubt they'll change.
    My concern would be that if they basically tacked full head movement control on at the end of development, there could be a "magic angle" that would avoid almost all strike animations (kinda how leaning back worked in 2 tbh). Because all the strike are animated to hit the head on the center line and don't track at all, like if someone stays ducking your fighter doesn't jab down at them or lower their hooks, they'll just keep winging strikes at where their head is supposed to be.
    This could cause, for example, ducking down to the left or right, to avoid uppercuts and knees that go up the center line and straight and hooking punches, and perhaps even high kicks depending on the angle. I'm aware that this is a fairly apocalyptic scenario for the feature, but I'm just using it to illustrate a point.
    To be 100% clear, full 360 degree head movement in a future game with the striking system built to account for it would be awesome, but I think shoving it into 3 a month before launch would be ****.
    Just want to say thank you to MartialMind , all the people who spoke up about these issues on the forum and most importantly thank you to GameplayDevUFC and the development team who implemented the changes.
    Alot of the time other EA developers get a lot of hate and its somewhat justified if they are obviously ignoring the consumer and putting out the same game every year. However the same cannot be said for the EA UFC series, as we are fortunate to have developers that are actively interacting and engaging with the fans in terms of outstanding problems.
    I mean this particular issue could have easily have been put on the shelve and patched in post release. But the fact that development time was taken to fix it pre-release, shows how dedicated the EA devs have been in terms of making the game the best that it can be in regards to the development time-frame. Cant wait to see the following videos detailing the other changes that have been made and once again for the devs i will say keep up the great work :computer:
    Thanks
    AB541
    GameplayDevUFC
    I don't think 360 head movement adds a lot to the game to be honest.
    I think the 360 feeling of control adds value is the sense that it feels better, but if we were to try and get that back I would try to implement it as a skin on top of what we have. Keep the frame tuning aspect of the current system with 360 control as a nicer facade.

    That's good enough for me
    I stated in a previous thread, I think only certain fighters should have 360 head movement. Only so many fighters utilize it well enough irl.
    Btw, is it just me or is the back sway a bit of an eye sore? It just looks really weird. The backwards motion in general doesn't look too natural. Walking backwards while using the RS should look more like talking gradual steps back with there hands down to the side instead of their feet hopping still and hands half way up (if I recall)...It was just one of those weird annoyances lol.
    Sent from my SM-J700P using Tapatalk
    I just want to know that these changes are going to apply to the final product or One day patch after released the game because we have any chance for play the game early via EA early access and pre-order bonus before the release date.
    TheGentlemanGhost
    I stated in a previous thread, I think only certain fighters should have 360 head movement. Only so many fighters utilize it well enough irl.
    Btw, is it just me or is the back sway a bit of an eye sore? It just looks really weird. The backwards motion in general doesn't look too natural. Walking backwards while using the RS should look more like talking gradual steps back with there hands down to the side instead of their feet hopping still and hands half way up (if I recall)...It was just one of those weird annoyances lol.
    Sent from my SM-J700P using Tapatalk

    I'm hoping this isnt the case but they may be a little to late in development to add a feature like 360 head movement that will only be used by a few fighters. I would love it from a realism/individuality aspect though.
    I saw someone suggest that only people with an 80 or above in head movement should have the 360 head movement. There are a couple of issues with that:
    1) The stats arent on a 0-100 scale. Its more like a 75-100 scale. You wont see fighters with a 20 or even a 50 in a the game because of the mechanics of the game. For example, Diakese has an 86 stamina and people were saying that his stamina drain may be too much (I disagree with that). Giving someone even a 70 in that would likely make that player unusable.
    2)Given how the stats work, I'd make it so that only people with a 95 or above would have the 360 head movement. Looking at my trusty stat chart, there are 6 people rated at a 95 or higher for head movement. Thats 6 out of over 200 fighters (I cant tell you the total number of fighters). Thats alot of work for 6 fighters.
    Now lets say we lower it to 93. That brings the number up to 18. Thats not even 10 percent of the roster.
    3) I know that the word "tiers" is a bad word here but there should be tiers when it comes to head movement. Anderson and Cody are top tier. Fighters like Gunnar and Derek Brunson should be on a lower tier. I would hate to see people or the AI using 360 head movement with Gunnar Nelson. It would annoy the **** out of me. So everyone shouldnt have it.
    With that said, I'm not sure the game accurately mimics what Anderson and Cody can do with head movement so i would love to see those guys get that head movement. I just hope its not too much work to add for the dev team.
    It's amazing that they're listening to feedback but I'm slightly worried that fights are now going to turn into a perpetual body hunt now with the rewards for depleting your opponents stamina being so high.
    MartialMind
    Part of what a fighter learns is how to move his head JUST enough and still be able to counter.
    If I want pure defensive head movement, then I move my head like Cody was moving it against Cruz, bending heavy at the waist and leaning far.
    But as ZombieRommel explained to me a while back....
    Basically, in FNC your head is a beach ball and the opponent's fist tracks the beach ball. If it's still for too long it tracks properly. Time the slip right and it screws the tracking. In UFC3, its digital, the game sees:
    "If duck, then hook = miss"
    And the precise timing of head movement isn't as important.
    Does this dumb down AND restrict head movement? Yes it does without a doubt in a "Realism sense", BUT balance wise, the head movement in the game works.

    Thanks or posting man. It shall help clearing the sense that the subject has been ignored.
    Now...
    Do you think the current slips take the head too far?
    In a system of analog width of the lean, what would be the advantage of moving all the way, at an angle (not back)? If moving a little is enough, why move a lot? And a connected question: do you think the back lean is too wide in EA UFC 3?
    And would you want 360 degrees, too? If so, how would the diagonal leans work? I'm glad someone already posted in this thread, suspecting of a magic angle that would evade everything.
    Do you think the head movement in EA UFC 3 is dumbed down in comparison to FNC?
    And that is not the case at all. The specificity of the directions means the lean window is precious, because you can't just spaz your head around to evade everything, like you can when the tracking is based on physics. I'm pretty sure there are more head movement fails in EA UFC 3 based on timing, than there were at FNC.
    emmdeekay
    It's amazing that they're listening to feedback but I'm slightly worried that fights are now going to turn into a perpetual body hunt now with the rewards for depleting your opponents stamina being so high.

    Risk vs reward
    Going to the body leaves you vulnerably to head shots.
    But i do think body shots should take less stamina but missed strikes should use more
    emmdeekay
    It's amazing that they're listening to feedback but I'm slightly worried that fights are now going to turn into a perpetual body hunt now with the rewards for depleting your opponents stamina being so high.

    You're not the only one worried about this.
    The good news is that those nerfs look way bigger than they are.
    Benjy7
    No disrespect to anyone with good ideas or opinions but there are some of you that are going over the top with your requests. You guys have to realize that as much as we want this game to be realistic as it can be. It still has to be a game at the end of the day. It has to be a playable, fun and controllable game that thousands of people have to enjoy. Which means not every idea will, or needs to make it in the game. Some things you guys are asking for may be unnecessary or not right for the game or may unbalance the game. The developers have put a lot of time into this game. Im sure they wouldnt release a game that felt unfinished or broken. I have no doubt that this game will be fine when it releases. So im basically saying before UFC3 can be the most realistic mma game ever, It has to be a PLAYABLE GAME first.

    Not every game is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. What matters more is the experience. The best games are like works of art. Instead of aiming to provide temporary satisfaction, they give you an experience that has a lasting effect on you. E.g. The Last of Us and stuff like that are clear examples of this. The Last Of Us isn't just a mere video game, it's something much more than that. Something that actually makes you "care".
    Same with MMA games. I mean, the people that will complain about the game being boring and unfun, should go play Call Of Duty as they'll find plenty of entertainment to be had there. Providing an accurate MMA experience that resembles the sport is something much more special and much more meaningful than just providing entertainment.
    Not_Entertained
    Not every game is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. What matters more is the experience. The best games are like works of art. Instead of aiming to provide temporary satisfaction, they give you an experience that has a lasting effect on you. E.g. The Last of Us and stuff like that are clear examples of this. The Last Of Us isn't just a mere video game, it's something much more than that. Something that actually makes you "care".
    Same with MMA games. I mean, the people that will complain about the game being boring and unfun, should go play Call Of Duty as they'll find plenty of entertainment to be had there. Providing an accurate MMA experience that resembles the sport is something much more special and much more meaningful than just providing entertainment.

    Okay... I think you might've explained something I've been thinking in my head in a way that makes sense.
    Your "Last Of Us" analogy was spot on.
    MartialMind
    Okay... I think you might've explained something I've been thinking in my head in a way that makes sense.
    Your "Last Of Us" analogy was spot on.

    Wow, thank you so much Martial. You've really made my day! Seriously, it means a lot coming from you!
    To me,if the games more realistic it will be much more fun and enjoyable. I want fights to play out more like real fights,where you have to take stamina into consideration, fighters move in and out and close the distance while throwing strikes,or working their way inside while using head movement, where fighters can get caught with one well placed counter and get knocked out. These are all elements of MMA and I'm glad they are finally incorporating them. I tried so hard to enjoy the last couple UFC gsmes,but between the ridiculous damage system and being able to absorb a ridiculous amount of strijes,and all the spinning crap that fighters could throw with hardly any stamina punishment, it was just way too over the top to enjoy.
    Not_Entertained
    Not every game is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. What matters more is the experience. The best games are like works of art. Instead of aiming to provide temporary satisfaction, they give you an experience that has a lasting effect on you. E.g. The Last of Us and stuff like that are clear examples of this. The Last Of Us isn't just a mere video game, it's something much more than that. Something that actually makes you "care".
    Same with MMA games. I mean, the people that will complain about the game being boring and unfun, should go play Call Of Duty as they'll find plenty of entertainment to be had there. Providing an accurate MMA experience that resembles the sport is something much more special and much more meaningful than just providing entertainment.

    I expect this game to be fun and enjoyable. I think most of the buying public wants that. Telling me to go play "COD" to fix my want for a fun and enjoyable MMA game isnt a solution.
    EA's trying to find a middle ground. I want a hyper realistic MMA game with customizable attributes and difficulties. I find that fun and enjoyable. Others (the majority) want a game with realistic aspects but that is a game and is fun.
    Their money is just as valuable as mine. If having to ease up on some of the realism leads to more sales, I'm all for it because I want to see future versions of the game. I just want options to make the game what I wanted to be.
    I know most people who buy this game dont want an MMA simulator. They arent as obsessed with realism as I am. I just want EA to give both audiences the chance to be happy not force one way on to the entire audience.
    aholbert32
    I expect this game to be fun and enjoyable. I think most of the buying public wants that. Telling me to go play "COD" to fix my want for a fun and enjoyable MMA game isnt a solution.
    EA's trying to find a middle ground. I want a hyper realistic MMA game with customizable attributes and difficulties. I find that fun and enjoyable. Others (the majority) want a game with realistic aspects but that is a game and is fun.
    Their money is just as valuable as mine. If having to ease up on some of the realism leads to more sales, I'm all for it because I want to see future versions of the game. I just want options to make the game what I wanted to be.
    I know most people who buy this game dont want an MMA simulator. They arent as obsessed with realism as I am. I just want EA to give both audiences the chance to be happy not force one way on to the entire audience.

    It's why there are so few of these "experiences" in gaming. They don't generally sell well and only true gamers appreciate them. However if developers take the risk and are passionate about delivering something that'll be remembered and something that'll leave behind a lasting legacy (as opposed to thinking about the money they can make), it will win the hearts of many people and have a huge impact.
    Not_Entertained
    It's why there are so few of these "experiences" in gaming. They don't generally sell well and only true gamers appreciate them. However if developers take the risk and are passionate about delivering something that'll be remembered and something that'll leave behind a lasting legacy (as opposed to thinking about the money they can make), it will win the hearts of many people and have a huge impact.

    The bottom line is that money matters and you cant expect developers to risk their livelihood for our enjoyment.
    If I had to choose between GPD making the most realistic MMA game and making a semi realistic one with a low learning curve im choosing the latter.
    We need casuals to like this game as well for it to continue. If the game gets a big enough base we’ll be able slowly inch it towards realism the same way 2k has been doing.
    And honesty we should all be thankful. Compare where we’re at now and where we were with UFC1
    aholbert32
    I'm hoping this isnt the case but they may be a little to late in development to add a feature like 360 head movement that will only be used by a few fighters. I would love it from a realism/individuality aspect though.
    I saw someone suggest that only people with an 80 or above in head movement should have the 360 head movement. There are a couple of issues with that:
    1) The stats arent on a 0-100 scale. Its more like a 75-100 scale. You wont see fighters with a 20 or even a 50 in a the game because of the mechanics of the game. For example, Diakese has an 86 stamina and people were saying that his stamina drain may be too much (I disagree with that). Giving someone even a 70 in that would likely make that player unusable.
    2)Given how the stats work, I'd make it so that only people with a 95 or above would have the 360 head movement. Looking at my trusty stat chart, there are 6 people rated at a 95 or higher for head movement. Thats 6 out of over 200 fighters (I cant tell you the total number of fighters). Thats alot of work for 6 fighters.
    Now lets say we lower it to 93. That brings the number up to 18. Thats not even 10 percent of the roster.
    3) I know that the word "tiers" is a bad word here but there should be tiers when it comes to head movement. Anderson and Cody are top tier. Fighters like Gunnar and Derek Brunson should be on a lower tier. I would hate to see people or the AI using 360 head movement with Gunnar Nelson. It would annoy the **** out of me. So everyone shouldnt have it.
    With that said, I'm not sure the game accurately mimics what Anderson and Cody can do with head movement so i would love to see those guys get that head movement. I just hope its not too much work to add for the dev team.
    Ha, that was me in the other thread about 80 head movement. I didn't know it was only 75 - 100. Something around 95 would work then.
    Personally I'm fine with head movement as is, but adding 360 just for certain fighters would just add a nice extra level of uniqueness.
    Sent from my SM-J700P using Tapatalk
    Not_Entertained
    Not every game is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. What matters more is the experience. The best games are like works of art. Instead of aiming to provide temporary satisfaction, they give you an experience that has a lasting effect on you. E.g. The Last of Us and stuff like that are clear examples of this. The Last Of Us isn't just a mere video game, it's something much more than that. Something that actually makes you "care".
    Same with MMA games. I mean, the people that will complain about the game being boring and unfun, should go play Call Of Duty as they'll find plenty of entertainment to be had there. Providing an accurate MMA experience that resembles the sport is something much more special and much more meaningful than just providing entertainment.

    I'm really curious if you have any examples of unfun, unejoyable game experiences that have had an impact on you. Because the Last of Us is enjoyable and fun on a mechanical and gameplay level, like yeah, the story is pretty serious and sad, but I wouldn't describe it as an unenjoyable game.
    Do you mean things like The Vanishing of Ethan Carter or Gone Home, which have no gameplay in a traditional sense, or, like Paradox game which a lot of people find obtuse and overly complex (which is a perfectly reasonable comparison for a sim of any kind)?
    Like, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm curious what exactly you mean
    Not_Entertained
    It's why there are so few of these "experiences" in gaming. They don't generally sell well and only true gamers appreciate them. However if developers take the risk and are passionate about delivering something that'll be remembered and something that'll leave behind a lasting legacy (as opposed to thinking about the money they can make), it will win the hearts of many people and have a huge impact.

    Thats nice to say....when its not your money.
    If you were a shareholder with EA and noticed your investment decreasing because the devs created games with the goal to make a lasting legacy but ignored what the majority of your audiance wanted, you wouldnt be too happy about it.
    Now when it works its awesome but even games like the Last of Us werent big risks. Its an incredibly great version of a zombie game. Thats it at its core. It also has a well known actress at the helm which helps with marketing. If it wouldve failed, game developers wouldve still made horror/zombie games.
    The flip side is EA UFC is the only MMA game out. If the devs go hyper realistic and alienate some of the casual fans who play the game, that could be it for UFC games for a while. EA UFC is successful but it isnt Madden or Fifa. It needs to cater to all audiences to continue to be financially viable.
    Phillyboi207
    The bottom line is that money matters and you cant expect developers to risk their livelihood for our enjoyment.
    If I had to choose between GPD making the most realistic MMA game and making a semi realistic one with a low learning curve im choosing the latter.
    We need casuals to like this game as well for it to continue. If the game gets a big enough base we’ll be able slowly inch it towards realism the same way 2k has been doing.
    And honesty we should all be thankful. Compare where we’re at now and where we were with UFC1

    Why would you want an MMA game with a "low learning curve"? That would mean the depth and complexity has to be dumbed down, which is EXACTLY the problem with modern games. Sacrificing quality just to make it more accessible for casual players is really something I've seen too much of and it's what I hate about AAA developers.
    aholbert32
    Thats nice to say....when its not your money.
    If you were a shareholder with EA and noticed your investment decreasing because the devs created games with the goal to make a lasting legacy but ignored what the majority of your audiance wanted, you wouldnt be too happy about it.
    Now when it works its awesome but even games like the Last of Us werent big risks. Its an incredibly great version of a zombie game. Thats it at its core. It also has a well known actress at the helm which helps with marketing. If it wouldve failed, game developers wouldve still made horror/zombie games.
    The flip side is EA UFC is the only MMA game out. If the devs go hyper realistic and alienate some of the casual fans who play the game, that could be it for UFC games for a while. EA UFC is successful but it isnt Madden or Fifa. It needs to cater to all audiences to continue to be financially viable.

    Most casual gamers ruin games anyway. All they're looking for is to be entertained and to put no effort into getting better. They just want something that you can pick up and play. So if I was a shareholder at EA, I'll be very happy that we're trying to make a unique and revolutionary masterpiece. I wouldn't care about the money so long as it's something that affects many people very deeply (not in a bad way!).
    Not_Entertained
    Most casual gamers ruin games anyway. All they're looking for is to be entertained and to put no effort into getting better. They just want something that you can pick up and play. So if I was a shareholder at EA, I'll be very happy that we're trying to make a unique and revolutionary masterpiece. I wouldn't care about the money so long as it's something that affects many people very deeply (not in a bad way!).

    Thats not reality though. Shareholders are shareholders for a reason. They are looking to make money. Your approach risks their investment. It also risks the jobs of hundreds of people.
    Not_Entertained
    Why would you want an MMA game with a "low learning curve"? That would mean the depth and complexity has to be dumbed down, which is EXACTLY the problem with modern games. Sacrificing quality just to make it more accessible for casual players is really something I've seen too much of and it's what I hate about AAA developers.

    Because I want this game to sell well
    I want GPD and his team to be successful and recognized as a top development team.
    As long as they dont completely cater to the random fighting game fans i’ll be happy.
    Nugget7211
    I'm really curious if you have any examples of unfun, unejoyable game experiences that have had an impact on you. Because the Last of Us is enjoyable and fun on a mechanical and gameplay level, like yeah, the story is pretty serious and sad, but I wouldn't describe it as an unenjoyable game.
    Do you mean things like The Vanishing of Ethan Carter or Gone Home, which have no gameplay in a traditional sense, or, like Paradox game which a lot of people find obtuse and overly complex (which is a perfectly reasonable comparison for a sim of any kind)?
    Like, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm curious what exactly you mean

    Keep in mind almost all of the games that have done this to me are so special that I can't mention them (they changed my life in many ways and practically won me over!). However, one example that I can mention is MGS IV. Hopefully this is a good enough example!
    Not_Entertained
    Keep in mind almost all of the games that have done this to me are so special that I can't mention them (they changed my life in many ways and practically won me over!). However, one example that I can mention is MGS IV. Hopefully this is a good enough example!

    Even MGS 4 has fun gameplay though, like yeah, it's got a **** load of cutscenes but the gameplay that's in there is great! Like, my question is what are these unfun, unenjoyable games that are good experiences? Like, what game are you engaging with on a mechanical level, not having fun, but still thinking "Yeah, this was worth my time"
    Or, I'm just really not understanding you and we're talking past each other, which could totally be what's happening!
    aholbert32
    Thats not reality though. Shareholders are shareholders for a reason. They are looking to make money. Your approach risks their investment. It also risks the jobs of hundreds of people.

    Well the end result is better than all the money in the world! In order to do this, developers must be willing to prioritise it above common and petty goals, such as making money. But you're right. Most just care about the money, instead of the quality.
    Not_Entertained
    Well the end result is better than all the money in the world! In order to do this, developers must be willing to prioritise it above common and petty goals, such as making money. But you're right. Most just care about the money, instead of the quality.

    How is money a petty goal? It’s their job lol
    You think EA will care how well this game is regarded if it doesnt sell?
    Not_Entertained
    Well the end result is better than all the money in the world! In order to do this, developers must be willing to prioritise it above common and petty goals, such as making money. But you're right. Most just care about the money, instead of the quality.

    I'd care about my job. Not to say that devs dont want to produce a quality product. They do. But what you are asking is for people to take a risk with their livelihood. I have a wife and a kid. I'm not going to create a game that ignores a large segment of the buying public just so a few people can say "That game was amazing and changed my life".
    I cant pay my mortgage with compliments. My kid doesnt eat from compliments. My kid could eat from my salary developing a successful video game though.
    Not_Entertained
    Well the end result is better than all the money in the world! In order to do this, developers must be willing to prioritise it above common and petty goals, such as making money. But you're right. Most just care about the money, instead of the quality.

    Framing it as just caring about money is kinda disingenuous, at least for the devs. What they want is to feed their family, get their kids the birthday/christmas presents they want, put their kids through college, be able to travel or do nice things for their significant other. I agree that money for money's sake isn't a good reason to do anything, but there are things money gets you that are brilliant reasons to do things.
    Nugget7211
    Even MGS 4 has fun gameplay though, like yeah, it's got a **** load of cutscenes but the gameplay that's in there is great! Like, my question is what are these unfun, unenjoyable games that are good experiences? Like, what game are you engaging with on a mechanical level, not having fun, but still thinking "Yeah, this was worth my time"
    Or, I'm just really not understanding you and we're talking past each other, which could totally be what's happening!

    Well then I'll give you a better description of what I mean! In Final Fantasy X, the Chocobo race and dodge 200 lightning bolts challenge are bound to make you throw the controller out the window! Initially, you're pissed off but after getting past them you feel a huge amount of satisfaction and relief. You know you earned it!
    And just to clarify, I didn't mean that the game has to be filled with 24/7 boredom! What I mean is that they have parts that are boring and unenjoyable but you had to earn it and make it through them in order to reap the rewards (the fun and enjoyable parts!). Casual gamers want 24/7 fun so if the game has a HUGE learning curve then they immediately just give up on it.
    Nugget7211
    Framing it as just caring about money is kinda disingenuous, at least for the devs. What they want is to feed their family, get their kids the birthday/christmas presents they want, put their kids through college, be able to travel or do nice things for their significant other. I agree that money for money's sake isn't a good reason to do anything, but there are things money gets you that are brilliant reasons to do things.

    Exactly. This means they're not truly passionate.
    Not_Entertained
    Exactly. This means they're not truly passionate.

    Do you have kids? A wife/husband? A mortgage? Rent?
    I'm surprised that anyone with those things would argue that they would sacrifice those things just so people can say they made a great game.
    Nah, man. A game should be fun. That is the first goal of the game because It leads to more sales... Personally, I love realism but they should consider casuals because hard core fans like you.. they don't buy multiple copies. This game is based on reality as mma but this is not a mma simulator. I know that many casual fans wants fighting game added in realism factors. For example, My friend is a casual fan of mma, he told me that ea ufc2 was more fun than this after he have played the beta. I am sure, Most casuals don't want spend many times for learn to sports game mechanic.
    I think, this guy is a casual fan, he'd prefer loved old striking system than the new one and 8 ppls agreed it.
    Not_Entertained
    Well then I'll give you a better description of what I mean! In Final Fantasy X, the Chocobo race and dodge 200 lightning bolts challenge are bound to make you throw the controller out the window! Initially, you're pissed off but after getting past them you feel a huge amount of satisfaction and relief. You know you earned it!
    And just to clarify, I didn't mean that the game has to be filled with 24/7 boredom! What I mean is that they have parts that are boring and unenjoyable but you had to earn it and make it through them in order to reap the rewards (the fun and enjoyable parts!). Casual gamers want 24/7 fun so if the game has a HUGE learning curve then they immediately just give up on it.

    Alright, the sticking point was that I was thinking "Who the **** wants a game that's always boring?" not just games with boring parts, which is fair enough.
    Nugget7211
    Alright, the sticking point was that I was thinking "Who the **** wants a game that's always boring?" not just games with boring parts, which is fair enough.

    Yeah I know. I'd probably be like zzzzzzzz after like, an hour or so!
    tissues250
    Nah, man. A game should be fun. That is the first goal of the game because It leads to more sales... Personally, I love realism but they should consider casuals because hard core fans like you.. they don't buy multiple copies. This game is based on reality as mma but this is not a mma simulator. I know that many casual fans wants fighting game added in realism factors. For example, My friend is a casual fan of mma, he told me that ea ufc2 was more fun than this after he have played the beta. I am sure, Most casuals don't want spend many times for learn to sports game mechanic.
    I think, this guy is a casual fan, he'd prefer loved old striking system than the new one and 8 ppls agreed it.

    OMG lol...i've heard stories, but never really believed that ppl like this actually exsist. Not all casuals are this way though. I have a few friends that are casual mma fans and gamers and they all liked the beta alot. Only thing they really had big issues with were the controls. But they don't even wanna play UFC 2 anymore lol.
    WarMMA
    OMG lol...i've heard stories, but never really believed that ppl like this actually exsist. Not all casuals are this way though. I have a few friends that are casual mma fans and gamers and they all liked the beta alot. Only thing they really had big issues with were the controls. But they don't even wanna play UFC 2 anymore lol.

    I think it's very important to remember that this isn't casual MMA fans, it's casual gamers. @Grabaka_hitman who's like the most hardcore MMA fan ever and he hated the new striking system (if you don't follow him, you should, posts great finishes from random fight nights in Uzbekistan)
    WarMMA
    OMG lol...i've heard stories, but never really believed that ppl like this actually exsist. Not all casuals are this way though. I have a few friends that are casual mma fans and gamers and they all liked the beta alot. Only thing they really had big issues with were the controls. But they don't even wanna play UFC 2 anymore lol.

    part of those complaints are because they are used to ea ufc 2 striking, having too learn new controls and the mechanics of the stand up feels like a drag for some casuals. so they say change the striking back but if they stick through they will get used to it as a casual should.
    Nugget7211
    I think it's very important to remember that this isn't casual MMA fans, it's casual gamers. @Grabaka_hitman who's like the most hardcore MMA fan ever and he hated the new striking system (if you don't follow him, you should, posts great finishes from random fight nights in Uzbekistan)

    Man that's crazy. To think any hardcore mma fan wouldn't be a fan of this kind of striking system totally surprises me. Most certain it's the minority, but a few are out there I guess.
    WarMMA
    Man that's crazy. To think any hardcore mma fan wouldn't be a fan of this kind of striking system totally surprises me. Most certain it's the minority, but a few are out there I guess.

    I asked him about it on twitter, didn't get a satisfying answer. I was surprised as well.
    GameplayDevUFC
    I asked him about it on twitter, didn't get a satisfying answer. I was surprised as well.

    What did he say, if you don't mind sharing? I'd honestly like to know what exactly he didn't like about it so much that he would want to go back to UFC 2 striking. A few hardcores I know had some issues with the learning curve of the controls, but other than that they thought the striking was amazing.
    Phillyboi207
    GPD how often should we expect a video detailing changes made since the Beta?

    Recorded one today, hopefully it will come out tomorrow but no guarantee on that as it just snowed and Vancouver doesn't do well in snow.
    There should be a third after that we were hoping to get out this week as well, but time will be tight.
    It was challenging for all of us, I did not like it at first either, when you put in the time, you'll probably end up feeling it was worth the trade. Special moves were by far the worst but I think most people can get used to the basic stuff and then the single modifier strikes without too much problems.
    WarMMA
    Similar to the issues the other hardcore fans I know had. It's the controls for the most part...seems like it's a bit too complex for some. Tbh, when I first heard about the control changes, I was thinking you guys may have had a simplified control scheme for players who just wanna pick up and play.

    Forget the pick up and play gamers. If they don't want to put in the time and effort, then that's on them.
    Not_Entertained
    Not every game is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. What matters more is the experience. The best games are like works of art. Instead of aiming to provide temporary satisfaction, they give you an experience that has a lasting effect on you. E.g. The Last of Us and stuff like that are clear examples of this. The Last Of Us isn't just a mere video game, it's something much more than that. Something that actually makes you "care".
    Same with MMA games. I mean, the people that will complain about the game being boring and unfun, should go play Call Of Duty as they'll find plenty of entertainment to be had there. Providing an accurate MMA experience that resembles the sport is something much more special and much more meaningful than just providing entertainment.

    When i said fun and enjoyable, i also mean a game that works and is stable in every way.
    Yes i want UFC3 to be a great experience. i just see a lot of people trying to bash UFC3, even after the developers have fixed things. But not every idea we give will make it into the game and not every idea needs too. Fixing 1 thing can probably break something else. I want this game to be as realistic as it can be but i would rather have it be a playable and stable game that functions right.
    Benjy7
    When i said fun and enjoyable, i also mean a game that works and is stable in every way.
    Yes i want UFC3 to be a great experience. i just see a lot of people trying to bash UFC3, even after the developers have fixed things. But not every idea we give will make it into the game and not every idea needs too. Fixing 1 thing can probably break something else. I want this game to be as realistic as it can be but i would rather have it be a playable and stable game that functions right.

    Ah, I get what you're saying. I think everyone would agree with that!
    TheGentlemanGhost
    I stated in a previous thread, I think only certain fighters should have 360 head movement. Only so many fighters utilize it well enough irl.

    I don't think this should be the case. Reason being is minimal movement slips are VERY important. They are the primary head movement defence for fighters. The most basic. If you go and watch a few fights right now and just watch the fighters' heads you'll see this.
    The stats/perks/whatever should dictate how easy it is to utilise. One thing is for certain... an ideal head movement system isn't going to be possible this game. However, I hope the head movement is at least as good as it can be in this game and they make the changes discussed in this thread for the next game.
    This isn't trivial. It genuinely matters for the MMA simulation experience. It would add great depth to the game if done well. There's no way it could be OP either because kicks and grappling will sort anyone out who's really good at head movement. Just like IRL. If someone is constantly slipping your straight punches.... You can throw a head kick.
    Anyway, thank you GPD for the striking changes thus far. They're great. This should be one of the next aims imo. Dynamic/highly responsive head movement. It would be a game changer.
    Not_Entertained
    Forget the pick up and play gamers. If they don't want to put in the time and effort, then that's on them.

    Yh after you put the time in it's so much easier.
    Hahaha,surely he can't be serious,changing the striking back to EA UFC 2. If they did that,it would basically be a carbon copy of EA UFC 2,minus the roster update. That guy must have a serious glue huffing addiction or some serious psychological issues,no other explanation and I've pretty much gone down the list of all possibilities. SMDH 😑
    This will force users to fight like a real MMA fight keeping into consideration stamina.
    Of course, this could all go wrong if the measurements of stamina have been stuffed up, but for now this looks like a welcome improvement.
    I just wanted to respond quick to both the people saying that adding stamina will negatively impact the "fun" or "balance" in this way or that way. As well as re-iterate my two biggest requests to make this game (non gameplay) feel more authentic.
    As for the balance, and fun.. I feel that if you can appreciate MMA, anything that pushes this more towards realism will make it have more longevity overall. Yeah it may not be fun initially. Good fights become more like chess than slug-fests sometimes. It may not be balanced or fun to have one jab stop you for example, but the reality is that every strike matters and you should be trying not to be hit before almost everything else. But those who chose to put in the time to learn the game, will also (if they aren't already) have a bigger appreciation for the sport and maybe even become legit fans.
    As for my biggest wishes:
    * Please make the Refs really do their job, I'm talking TKO's, Saving fighters by pulling off an enraged opponent, and even calling in the Dr (instead of the announcers just saying it). This will make the end of fights feel more real, and less jarring/gamey as they have been.
    * Please remove the HUD, at least for your opponent. This again will add a HUGE layer of strategy on top of each fight, which will definitely improve the longevity of the game. I did very well in UT in UFC 2, and played with HUD disabled (even my own) because of how silly it seemed to me to be able to see my opponents. I must say, without even seeing my own it felt SO much better, and forced me to implement more realistic game-plans thinking any strike could be the one that put me on the mat. @GamePlayDevUFC please, please, please at least remove the opponents HUD bars.
    * Please make every strike from every position be effective. People can be punished from almost any position, and I feel this should be reflected in the game. In addition if you want to grapple on the ground, I sure hope that translates well into the MASSIVE stamina it should consume with the new stamina system. I only say this because it adds more strategy and many more things you should take into account when creating your game-plan.
    Thanks for listening!
    @gpd please tell me one of these videos will be a new knockouts Ragdoll? Man I love this game it would suck to have those animations just kill the game for me.
    melo627
    @gpd please tell me one of these videos will be a new knockouts Ragdoll? Man I love this game it would suck to have those animations just kill the game for me.

    he said there should be another video ciming out today!
    Maybe its just me, but I feel this adds to body shot spam being the most effective way of striking. I felt it was already extremely dominant in the beta as people could trade getting rocked for huge damage to your stamina, and eventually just finish you off by the 2nd or 3rd round. I think this change makes it even harsher to deal with.
    Player2793
    Maybe its just me, but I feel this adds to body shot spam being the most effective way of striking. I felt it was already extremely dominant in the beta as people could trade getting rocked for huge damage to your stamina, and eventually just finish you off by the 2nd or 3rd round. I think this change makes it even harsher to deal with.

    I agree but it will force people to block their body more now, which will open up more strikes to the head. It will make striking even more challening. However we will see how the game pans out and what becomes OP.
    There are important things left which is needs to be tweaked than ragdolls. I hope that today video is going to be about the Clinch or takedown... Another standing issue would be cool.
    Player2793
    Maybe its just me, but I feel this adds to body shot spam being the most effective way of striking. I felt it was already extremely dominant in the beta as people could trade getting rocked for huge damage to your stamina, and eventually just finish you off by the 2nd or 3rd round. I think this change makes it even harsher to deal with.

    I dont agree bidy shot is not OP because it was not severe damage compared with a leg kick. We have a problem with unresponsive body block, not a body kick. It was too slow in the beta.
    tissues250
    I dont agree bidy shot is not OP because it was not severe damage compared with a leg kick. We have a problem with unresponsive body block, not a body kick. It was too slow in the beta.

    I think he means the stamina drain from body shots, the damge wasnt that great for body in the beta but i think they did that on purpose so the drain is better.
    Trillz
    I think he means the stamina drain from body shots, the damge wasnt that great for body in the beta but i think they did that on purpose so the drain is better.

    Oh sorry. I agree about stamina issue but it was fun to me.
    Player2793
    Maybe its just me, but I feel this adds to body shot spam being the most effective way of striking. I felt it was already extremely dominant in the beta as people could trade getting rocked for huge damage to your stamina, and eventually just finish you off by the 2nd or 3rd round. I think this change makes it even harsher to deal with.

    I personally found body strikes to be very easy to counter if the opponent over relied on them, If they're coming in with the 1b-2b and uppercut will stop them utterly dead.
    A body kick can go to the head of a opponent ducking in for a body shot.
    I understand where you are coming from, but I think with the fix on block timing (jab-body kick won't be unblockable in retail I'm pretty sure.
    I personally got one body strike KO in the entire beta (against a guy I'm pretty sure was completely new) and wasn't stopped by them.
    It all fits into the risk reward system for me. If someone is using repetitive patterns they shouldn't be too hard to deal with IMO.
    I do get your concern though. And it is valid, I don't think its gonna be a major issue myself, but we don't know until the game comes out.
    Edit: if you having trouble with body strikes when retail drops. Try to land some body shots on the Pro/Legendary AI, they counter the HELL out of body shots. Certainly taught ne a trick or two.
    AeroZeppelin27
    I personally found body strikes to be very easy to counter if the opponent over relied on them, If they're coming in with the 1b-2b and uppercut will stop them utterly dead.
    A body kick can go to the head of a opponent ducking in for a body shot.
    I understand where you are coming from, but I think with the fix on block timing (jab-body kick won't be unblockable in retail I'm pretty sure.
    I personally got one body strike KO in the entire beta (against a guy I'm pretty sure was completely new) and wasn't stopped by them.
    It all fits into the risk reward system for me. If someone is using repetitive patterns they shouldn't be too hard to deal with IMO.
    I do get your concern though. And it is valid, I don't think its gonna be a major issue myself, but we don't know until the game comes out.
    Edit: if you having trouble with body strikes when retail drops. Try to land some body shots on the Pro/Legendary AI, they counter the HELL out of body shots. Certainly taught ne a trick or two.

    You can definitely catch people who spam the body shots, predict them and catch them with uppercuts after the first shot lands, but I think as a strategy its far too rewarding.
    If someone can survive getting rocked for a round, while they've only been body shotting - or just setting up good body shots, you'll be down a significant amount of stamina compared to them. If they rock you, they can then go to town with body hooks and crush your stamina.
    I appreciate the beta was new, and most strategies can take months to develop, and ontop of that EA has been really good at tackling these gameplay issues, but I still think it will become more problematic after this.
    Player2793
    Maybe its just me, but I feel this adds to body shot spam being the most effective way of striking. I felt it was already extremely dominant in the beta as people could trade getting rocked for huge damage to your stamina, and eventually just finish you off by the 2nd or 3rd round. I think this change makes it even harsher to deal with.
    Body shot spam isn't that easy. Catch kicks are pretty easy to do and the body punches are kinda slow.
    But GPD originally said they might need body striked a little prior to the stamina change, but I'm not sure if they went thru with it. But from what I played in the beta, body spamming wasn't really convenient. Predictable opponents in general weren't very hard to punish thanks to vulnerability.
    Sent from my SM-J700P using Tapatalk
    GameplayDevUFC
    The other part we're currently play testing is toning down some of the stamina advantages guys like Diaz have to make them less OP, without losing that feeling that the stamina ratings matter.
    I think what you see in the video, along with these changes will put things in a really good place.
    Throwing shots in general should deplete stamina. Even if the shot lands, it should deplete it. Too many times in the 5th round, I have had almost full stamina which should never be the case.
    Knee's in the clinch should deplete stamina as well.
    Its true technically there is no difference from missing a strike and landing a strike irl. You will get gassed the same way, but in terms of gaming balancing it makes sense but the concept isnt true.
    Trillz
    Its true technically there is no difference from missing a strike and landing a strike irl. You will get gassed the same way, but in terms of gaming balancing it makes sense but the concept isnt true.

    Absolutely not. Hitting air is significantly more tiring than making good contact with the opponent, any real fighter will tell you this.
    RetractedMonkey
    Absolutely not. Hitting air is significantly more tiring than making good contact with the opponent, any real fighter will tell you this.

    Hhhmmm, you may be right but ive seen alot of fighters punch themselves out for trying to finish the fight and they connect on most punches. So what if the opponent blocks the punch you telling me it wont draiin the same as missing a punch.
    Maybe the type of strike will depends on the drain. Will hitting a bodybag drain more stamina then pretending to hit a bodybag with the same velocity?
    Definitely agree, I fought for 12 years and I can definitely confirm. Wiffs will exhaust you way more than a solid connection.
    As for folks concerned about body strikes being OP, I'm sure they will work it out. However some techniques are inherently "OP" in real life, however people tend to evolve strategies to overcome. Nerfing things in the sense that typical games do will only damage the product in my opinion, because you're slowly diluting everything down until each technique is so Charmin soft you may as be fighting with pillows on your hands/feet.
    On obvious strategy for a body spammer than comes to mind would be to defend the body until they tire out. With this new stamina system, it would appear they will be much more vulnerable once they do so (as should be).
    iHazCode
    Definitely agree, I fought for 12 years and I can definitely confirm. Wiffs will exhaust you way more than a solid connection.
    As for folks concerned about body strikes being OP, I'm sure they will work it out. However some techniques are inherently "OP" in real life, however people tend to evolve strategies to overcome. Nerfing things in the sense that typical games do will only damage the product in my opinion, because you're slowly diluting everything down until each technique is so Charmin soft you may as be fighting with pillows on your hands/feet.
    On obvious strategy for a body spammer than comes to mind would be to defend the body until they tire out. With this new stamina system, it would appear they will be much more vulnerable once they do so (as should be).

    But the body spammer wont lose stamina if he is landing?? even if you are blocking?
    Trillz
    Hhhmmm, you may be right but ive seen alot of fighters punch themselves out for trying to finish the fight and they connect on most punches. So what if the opponent blocks the punch you telling me it wont drain the same as missing a punch.

    Correct.
    Will hitting a bodybag drain more stamina then pretending to hit a bodybag with the same velocity?

    The reason missing an opponent is more tiring is twofold.
    When you throw a punch you're spending energy accelerating your fist to speeds that will hurt your opponent. Assuming you land flush, their face/body, decelerates if not outright stops your fist.
    The problem with missing is that your initial plan of stopping your fist from flying into orbit by using their face or body as an airbag goes out the window. By the time you realize you didn't hit them, your rogue fist is already pulling the rest of your body off balance.
    So now your muscles are now burdened with the responsibility of stopping said fist from trying to move to another solar system and on top of that they're tasked with balancing your body so you don't fall over.
    Trillz
    But the body spammer wont lose stamina if he is landing?? even if you are blocking?

    You're throwing strikes so of course you'll lose stamina, even if you land or get blocked. You just lose way more if you're not landing.
    Trillz
    Hhhmmm, you may be right but ive seen alot of fighters punch themselves out for trying to finish the fight and they connect on most punches. So what if the opponent blocks the punch you telling me it wont draiin the same as missing a punch.
    Maybe the type of strike will depends on the drain. Will hitting a bodybag drain more stamina then pretending to hit a bodybag with the same velocity?

    Think of it this way.
    When you throw a punch and miss you're using your energy for two things.
    - Throwing the strike
    - And stopping the momentum of the whiffed strike
    When you land, you use energy to throw and the target you hit stops the strike so you don't have to do it yourself.
    You can blame physics for that.
    This can ofcourse somewhat be negated by throwing short crisp strikes so that when you do miss you're not battling with the momentum of the strike too much.

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