EA Sports UFC 3 Live Tuner Set Details (2-7)

That was fast!!
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Great Job working so fast on these issues GPD. 👍🏻

One for the homies.

:star::ohno::y1::boxing::wedgie:

You buffed RDA! Thank you so much!
Going from memory, I think he got a 4 point top and bottom game buff, and a little buff to both sub offense and defense, as well as 2 points of endurance and 2 points to both striking and grappling stamina, and 2 points to heart and chin! This is awesome!

Good work.
Hopefully things like block in SC, damage boost in general, stamina more punishing, and number of KDs before the finish is decreased (~5 KDs per round is decent).

My brain is fudge today, "reduced recovery frames on punches to the body" = the guy getting hit recovers quickly or the guy throwing the punch recovers quickly?

reduced long term stamina drain on opponent when landing body punches
question. is it only for punches? not kicks?

Guy getting hit recovers quicker.

What does this exactly mean?

Kicks aren't capable of being combo'd like punches, likely just punches.

Perfect! :ohno:
Edit: Perfect x2 for not nerfing body kick stamina drain!

Only punches. Kicks have not been touched at all.

It feels better now, but I'll miss being able counterpunch to the gut like Mike Tyson no matter what weight class I'm in.

Nice
I hope we get more long term stam drain for landed and blocked strikes

THIS. PLEASE......

Yayyyy
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Still working on fixing input delay when going from striking to grappling?
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Yeeeaaaaaaahhhhhh booooooooiiiiii. Those randos in ranked are gonna be so shocked.
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We need this ASAP!!!!!

Im sure that’s in the patch.
Cant be fixed in with a tuner

A bit of translation from the frame talk:
Theoretically, now you can punch back in between body punches, or use leans in time to try to armor the next one or evade if it's a head strike.
Using consecutive body punches will rely on getting the guy in a counter hit on the first punch, or rely on the threat to the body, then head, so that the opponent doesn't dare to punch back after eating the first body punch.
Also, now, you can fire back against body punches always with uppers. No more mix up of ducking and side leans.
Also, to compensate for this stuff and still allow body punches to be safe on normal hit... you can block very quickly after landing a body punch (block is still slow if you whiff). So, even though the target of the body punch can fire back very quickly, the guy who landed it can block in time... otherwise, the single body punches would always get you hit after you'd land them. I think the body puncher can also block in time, after having the punch blocked, whereas before he couldn't (though this was hardly ever a factor, as he could easily keep punching the body, due to the evasion mix up).
I intend to do some labbing to verify if things are really working like this. I also intend to compare the stamina profits of body punches and kicks.

Doing gods work.

RDA also got the switch kick I asked for in the moveset thread, so if you asked for something go check if it's there now

I’m grateful but This probably didn’t address the AI habit of checking almost all leg kicks ?
I think they should switch stance like fighters do when constantly being kicked on one side of the leg.....
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You add me on xbox live like a week ago? We need to get some games in
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I love this person.

Updated OP with the list of fighters who's moves have changed.
Not gonna list the moves, too much typing.
Al Iaquinta
Alistair Overeem
Anthony Pettis
Carlos Condit
Daniel Cormier
Derrick Lewis
Georges St-Pierre
Joe Soto
Jon Jones
Jose Aldo
Leonardo Santos
Luke Rockhold
Nate Diaz
Nick Diaz
Rafael Dos_Anjos
Rampage Jackson
Robert Whittaker
Thomas Almeida
Uriah Hall
Yair Rodriguez
Yoel Romero
Glover Teixeira
Jessica Penne
Joe Lauzon
Junior Dos Santos
Minotauro Nogueira
Tarec Saffiedine

Good stuff.
I will say it's a real shame that we still don't have a long body jab or straight. It's a common technique. We have to be in our opponents face to land a straight punch to the body that is like half extended. Very weird.

I posted a bunch of MMA ones in another thread but can't be bothered to find em all right now.

The clinch escape seems too fast in single collar to me now.

BTW, the speed (execution) of the body hooks was slowed down just a bit. It was a bit too fast, as fast the head counterpart, whereas the other body punches are all a bit slower than the high version.

That isnt something that can be fixed by tuner. Its a patch thing. Skynet is aware of it.

Can the guy who started the clinch win a race to OU?

Yep. As I hoped, the devs are checking that thread.

This is what interns are for!
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I don't get any interns. I'm typing this reply with my own two hands.

Thanks at least we got the ball rolling now can’t wait for the first patch!
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They are doing you dirty gpd. Im gonna write a strongly worded letter to the higher-ups at EA
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Heads up, R1 + Kick for Wonderboy causes a glitched kick to come out when stationary.
It's the side kick to face. When stationary it seems to come out twice but looks really odd. Works fine when moving forward.

I'm sure the higher ups never get strongly worded letters from angry gamers, so they will probably have a lot of time to read yours and act on it.
I look forward to my new intern.

Yoel Romero should get the lead side leg kick.

You should add this to the moveset thread so the devs can see it.

I already did. I was hoping it would be added in this tuner.

They already added it to the game, literally doing it now

If that doesn't work, ill be your intern. I just need a place to stay. Free up some room on your couch and I'm in.
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They changed Nick's straight punches hahah. Thanks devs.

I can confirm it was added now.
Good work thanks

Do you need one?
Where do I sign up?

All records from previous two UFC Fight Nights have also been updated.
Attributes for the following fighters changed.
Ben Rothwell
Matthew Brown
Rafael dos Anjos Stats at WW and LW
Mirsad Bektic
Ronaldo Souza
Valentina Shevchenko

Did the Diaz bros get their signature hands out taunt back?

Seeing Jacaré's real name is always weird to me, so is Matthew Brown tbh

THANK YOUYUY
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When I saw Nick's new punches, I knew that dude from the forum would be happy :D
Quite happy too tbh, Nate has a distinct style of 1 - 2 compared with Nick's. Both brothers have that slap style hook though I think.

Awesome changes. Good work, devs.
Can't play until tomorrow so can someone tell me what the moveset changes for GSP are? I thought his moveset was pretty spot on, but something new is always nice.

Yeah but with one of my alts I made for the trial that I don’t use anymore. I’m about to get home and head online. I’ll add you on my main, we had a couple good scraps yesterday.
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Holding high block simulator is already not very fun.

Props for typing the fancy "é" from Portuguese. :cheers:

Oh whats your main? I had a realllly bad day yesterday lol
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I have a fancy "á" in my name, so I know how to do it and I know how annoying it can be when people don't do it haha

Clinch escape feels faster now which is nicd and I can no longer bullrush the AI with body spam. Got caught with a nice cross, hook combination for my troubles!
Body work is still viable but my timing has to be more careful now or thrown as part of a combo.

Me ****ing too man. I went from 11 to 37. I DCed once too so that dropped me 30 points. Finally ended with a little streak. My main is LemusKhan. I use that one to try all my new ****.
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Ohhhh ok yeah we had few fights yesterday. I started the day just outside the top 20 and i bounced around a bit before having a bad, bad streak. I dropped out of the top 50 so i decided to take a break.. Went and got pissed at a different game for a little while. Got back on and put myself back in the top 20 before getting off lol
It is hard to be consistent playing against killers all day long.
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Just give them Conor's hands out taunt at least. Pls. It will do. Swap it for that weird jazz hands taunt lol.

No. The escape wins every time. Tested with GSP vs GSP.

Good work. Now can someone explain to me what this means? Hahaha
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When are you guys going to add Yancy Medeiros to WW????

can we get a hit reaction animation when landed jab or straight to the body. It would be small back animation like gif. Now in the game.. there is full hit reaction from front kicks to the body as inspired by JDS vs Rothwell.

Geoff is bringing my faith in EA to a whole other level. Great job.

Xbox won't let me add you right now for some reason. You've got my name if you wanna message me.

Thank you so much!
Oh my god you don't even know how happy my friends and I are. Literally planning to all hang out tonight, drink some cold ones and crack some skulls.
That savage picture you ended it with too. I laughed harder at that than I probably should have.

Will the ai be tuned soon?
As an offline player I find the ai to be overly adept at blocking. Specifically leg kicks. Can barely land them at all on pro

Incredibly impressed by how fast you guys react with tuner changers.

This can only be tuned by patch. Skynet is aware of this issue.

I mean I know it's the first round but big ben looks tired already, I can't imagine anyone reacting like this besides guys with kegs for stomachs.

Thank you for adding the flying Kimura for Nate Diaz I posted for!
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Yeah, you don't want guys reacting to jabs to the body like this every time. This is a combination of JDS having a great stiff body jab, Ben being laboured/lazy, and just not being prepared for it at all. He's also stepping into it.

Oh, wow that was fast, guys! Loving this tuner technology. Thank you.

Striking feels a lot better. What a difference now that hooks don’t keep you locked in a cyclone.
Also the upper cut is still useful and works great against ppl always ducking down and throwing strikes.
I’m happy with this tuner set. 👍🏻

@ GPD, the vulnerability adjustment to the body strikes is great, but the long term stamina nerf from body punching has gone too far in the other direction. It needs to go back to how it was. I use John Lineker strictly at Bantamweight. He's a thunderous body puncher and I use the mix up to break down the cardio machines. Dillashaw/Cruz users. For a lower tiered fighter like Lineker and others, this strategy is now too weak. The stat strike disadvantages in these match ups, the fighter uses more stamina than the long term stamina tax. It's a backwards battle. Revert please, the bottom tier is even more unusable like this.
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So far my thoughts are that the changes are good but body punches should tax the opponents stamina more than they currently do. Maybe not like they did before but yeah. It's very dangerous to throw them now so the reward should be greater. If you want to try and drain your opponents stamina all the way in 1 round you'll just get KO'd.

Ughhhh... please no more of the crazy body long term stamina drain.
I like the way it is now.

You just said countering them feels great now so why would you be worried? You seem to want everything to centre around your playstyle regardless of if it's balanced or not.
When subs were their hardest to get out of you were literally the only one saying they were fine lol

The body punch stamina drain is fine. The drain for blocked and landed punches needs to be increased.

Blocked and missed shots should drain more stamina. Landed shots should drain more stamina.
Damage should be increased but the number of KDs before the finish decreased (~5 KDs per round should be decent).

Great tuner set. 7-0 all KOs so far. Nick Diaz's new cross is perfect, just need to add his taunts and marathoner perk.

Thats what should make up for the reduced drain on body damage IMO. That should've been more apparent from the start.

He's always like that, unless the game is HIS way, he won't be satisfied.
:star:

Look forward to testing this, fingers crossed :y220b:
Just hope body punches still have some pop to them, need to be able to punish people who don't block body !
Not in a SPAMMY way though, of course lol

This wasn't added in the tuner tho

You wreck someone's body, and it costs you more stamina for doing so than the reward for it. The top tier fighters can just keep throwing and throwing. The mechanic adjustment was enough, the stamina nerf has broke the gameplay in a major way imo.
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Sad Face.
In my opinion SINGLE body strikes should have the same damage/stamina drain as pre-tuner
COMBO'D body strikes needed the nerf
I should still be able to do wicked damage to the body & stamina drain if I land a dozen single-strike left hook counters to the liver over a couple of rounds.
Worried that there'll be no reason at all to throw body strikes anymore, even 100% legitimate non-spam counters (which is what I throw) :( :( :(
GPD did admit that they might have gone overboard with this and he wasn't above tweaking it agian if necessary so that's good haha

They do not
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Bear in mind that all body punches aren't equal in this game and never have been. If you manage to evade some punches and land a hook to the body on someone with an empty temp stamina bar, you'll do a bunch of stamina damage and body damage, but if you just leap in with a lead hook to the body, you won't get much. You have to be smart with body shots to get a return on them now, which I think is really good.

So do people want body shots to be the same thing as hitting a person in their head ?

This is a very important point to consider.
Are body punches that are setup well also not worth the risk? Or just body punches with no setup?
It was always going to feel like too big a nerf if you used them even in a non spammy way as you were used to the old values.
Take some time to explore the setups and report back.
There won't be another tuner set this week anyway, so we have time to let it breathe a bit before reacting.

Yes good point and I definitely agree that I like these differing 'types' of the same strike (especially the vulnerability windows/etc)
If the 'low quality' body strikes were nerfed; but the high-quality strikes were not nerfed, I'd be happier I suppose.
i.e. a random L Hook to the body of an opponent moving backwards who has full stamina/health and no vulnerability window --- yea that should do very minimal stamina drain/damage
Whereas if someone missed a huge head kick and I counter with a perfect L Hook to the liver....that should be PAIN as Mr. T said lol
I'm just worried they nerfed "all" body punches by a flat amount.
So every body punch is now 40% less effective for example.
I'll refrain from giving more thoughts til I actually play lol

Body shots may have been in need of tuning somehow (I never really thought it was a huge problem) but reducing the long-term stamina they take from the opponent was not it.
Congrats guys, the collective dramatic complaints about body-shots have caused them to be nerfed in ways they shouldn't have been.
(I believe problem is the evasive frames, which was fixed, and the fact that strikes that hit flush or block don't drain stamina from the striker enough, allowing them to spam body-punches. Now working the body early, in a smart non-spammy way, is probably not going to be worth it.)

Keep in mind, altering the stamina costs on hit was not possible in a live tuner set, so anyone asking for that has to weigh what we did vs nothing, not what we did v. that.
Also, body kicks and knees have not been touched at all.

If I understand correctly, the stamina drain change is only for body punches. Stamina drain on kicks is the same so that makes sense since body kicks should do more damage than body punches.
You have to use body kicks more now at the risk of getting caught, so you have to set them up better.

not sure about this change i cant slow down combo spammers now, once i get into punch/hook range they fire off their pre emptive combos instantly and rock you. Now you cant even sneak in a body punch to slow them down they spamming the same combo throughout the whole fight. this is going to be another problem, you cant inside fight no more without firing of your combos first.

That's correct.

Understandable. I just think the amount of stamina body-punches took from the opponent was not the problem, and hope that in the next big update you guys revert them back and just make them more anti-spammy for the striker rather than weaker.
But I get why you guys would do what you could with a Live tuner set, considering everyone and their mother is....giving their thoughts....on body shots.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can side slip and counter body punch, which gets a damage buff.
No one was doing that before because they didn't need to. The strikes all had built in evasion.

I was doing that, because I'm a weirdo

Agree with this. Making body punches weaker will force peeps who don't spam into having to basically spam the body to achieve any kind of stamina impact in my opinion.

Or hit counters, vulnerability or use more when opponent has low stamina.

Is there a point in countering to the body for a really small amount of stamina tax when you can counter to the head with duck/upper and likely get a rock? Or sometimes get a rock with a single punch. That's my question.
I do like that going to the body when your opponent is low on temp stamina is more effective though.

John Lineker has no head kicks or knees (add them). Now his body punches cost him more stamina in effort than they do in stamina effect even with his hook perks. Any high level player will know to always block low on kick read against him. He's no longer dangerous
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Catch punch that results in the clinch should be added. They were in UD3 and were quite useful.
Have them work like catching kicks now.
The window on them should be very small, smaller than parries in EA UFC 1 & 2, since punches are generally faster than kicks.

Nice! That reduction in recovery frames equals big trouble for body spammers. Cant wait to try this out.

I'm testing the new frames. It seems like being able to lean sooner after eating a body punch (and it is much sooner than before) is still not soon enough. So, taking a body punch and trying to armor the next one with a lean still doesn't work.
However, blasting through the body punches with an upper (preferably a rear upper, for more damage) works. I'm about to compare the stamina profits vs kicks.

IMHO, that is very bad.

what is being done to preset combo spammers? Since the change ive seen everyone spamming to the head with lightning quick combos they know they cant get afected by body punches. i literally have to walk in and out to bait their combo spam and wait for them to lose stamina which takes a very long time.

That's what head movement is for. If they're spamming the same combo you can easily wade in and slip.

Body punches still grant a clear profit of stamina. Very clear.
But in a comparison of 15 body 3-4s vs 15 rear body roundhouses from a good range (same move level and no perks {JDS}), the body roundhouses won the stamina battle by a little bit.
EDIT: Rear body kicks thrown from too close still profit, but less than form a good range. The close range body kicks profit seems about the same as the 3-4 profit.

The problem with this is landing 3-4 body punches is very, very difficult now. That said, so is landing body kicks. Going to the body is very dangerous in general now. Body punches should be dangerous but I think that they should be doing more stamina tax with how you've laid this out. Go online and try landing 3-4 body punch combos against someone who knows what they're doing (if they aren't rocked). It should be hard to land long body combos but the stamina tax should be increased so single or 1-2s to the body are more effective.
EDIT: wait are you referring to 2 body punches in combination? Because that sounds more reasonable if so.

3-4 is lead hook-rear hook, so it's only a 2 punch combo

Yeah, hopefully this works out okay. I have my doubts though. I think countering them is relatively easy. I'm not sure the risk/reward adds up for them now. We'll see. Either way... seems better than it was before.

Yes. Two punches, a lead body hook and a rear body hook, in combo.
Just did the final test, comparing 3-4 with rear body kick from close range. 3-4 wins.
So, the hierarchy is:
1- Body Kick from good range.
2- Body 3-4.
3- Body Kick from close range.
ALL options profit.

It's not the stamina effect of the punches themselves that the issue Solid, it's the long term effect for doing them isn't cost effective. The power never changed so why are you even testing that?
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I'm finding with the new changes that the 1-2 and hook spam to the head is far more effective

I'm testing the long term stamina drain. And it is still very cost effective. The effectiveness is similar to that of body kicks, now (comparing with pairs of punches, which deal similar damage to a body kick).

im not seeing people mix up their shots anymore, they are coming forward firing away with hooks and 1-2s, you cant throw body shots with constant pressure and the pre set combos rock you instantly if you dont throw them back. They know body shots wont affect them anymore, the diaz players are going crazy espacially.

This is exactly what I am experiencing. Open to suggestions on how to combat this?

That sounds tremendous - you don't really see body shots in MMA and you'll be able to counter off of head shots.
You especially shouldn't see people walking other's down with body shots. That's asking to get clobbered in real life.

Duck under and flatten them with an uppercut?

Tried ducking in every variation, I get clubbed by the jab or straight still.

This isn't an issue. Trust me. Duck straight down. Not to the side at all. Then throw a rear uppercut and lead hook. It rocks a high percentage of the time. Gotta time it by anticipation too. Just get the movement and combo down at first tho.
Inside fighting is OP. Def don't need any nerfs to outside fighting rn.

you wouldnt experience it in HW with nog, the lighter divisions its more rift, Once you get in range you can only block, if you open up your getting cracked and rocked instantly. Also its worse on diaz with his good stamina and combo sets doesnt drain stamina at all.

Just make sure to mix in some other head movements if they wise up after getting cracked a few times and start throwing uppers - ducking won't protect you against those.

Are you on PSN? I'd like to try the cheese I'm talking about against you

I can’t stress how much upper cuts work in this game and rock ppl. It’s great when ppl are ducking down throwing body shots or just moving there head so much.
I think upper cuts work pretty well in this game.

i dont think you understand once in range and they throw the preset combo you are getting rocked its not worth trying to dodge it. They fish for it all fight.

In division 5, most people are wising up to this. Leave your head down there ducking once and your toast if they see it.

Yeah man. Let's do it. My PSN is FearFyah. Give me a sec but add me.

That’s absolutely correct even in boxing when you go to the body you need to be cautious and set them up so that would be even more of a risk in MMA just to go to the body, more realistic to set things up on top before you go below!
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Anyone ever pay attention to how these changes effect tier 2&3 fighters competing against tier 1 fighters?

I loooooove waking up to these things, this one is massive, wow!
Thanks GPD and team, can't wait to play some after work.

I agree it should be more risky to go to the body than it is now, but if the game goes in that direction they need to make it more profitable to go to the body as well. Honestly thats more how it is in real life. You don't see body shots often but when you do, even one good combo to the body is easily observed to effect the opponent in the long term. Rare and risky but dangerous.
Otherwise, if they just nerf body-shots to the point a lot of people are asking them too, wtf would be the point of risking going to the body? They would be risky to throw AND not very effective.
Right now you most definitely need volume to the body to get any good results. Now apparently after this tuner set, you need even more volume. A lot of you are asking for body-shots to be harder to throw. So now you would have a risky type of strike that also requires a lot of lands to get the desired effect.

Clinch breaks are fast irl though. You don't usually see ppl taking long to escape a clinch.

You can pick a fighter with better head movement or try to slip right after a block, but your input has to be super fast. You can actually release the block a tad before the strike makes contact, and the block will still happen. When you do that, input the lean as soon as you release the block. This guarantees the slip will come out fast enough.

Yes. The frames breakpoints are working fine for slower fighters.
And I think this change will make the game less of a pure stamina war, which means lower stamina fighters will be more viable than they were at launch.
_________________________
And the video with the details about the body punches is up:

Hitsuns prevent us from moving our head.

Yes. They still do. The change wasn't big enough to allow head movement in time. And I don't think it can be done, because of the comparison between the head movement start-up and the combo speed. But the main new counter is still there: just blast them with an uppercut, in-between the punches.

You can still block tho right?
You should be able to roll with strikes a bit.

The people complaining about not being able to duck and uppercut someone throwing combos have to take our word for it that they just aren't doing it right.
You CANNOT do that to me. I can pick CM Punk against your 100 ovr caf and I will flatten you every time if you just spam the same 1-2-3 combo. I'm willing to show anyone with this problem on XBox what they're doing wrong. It's harder to conceptualize when we're just writing words.

Yes. You can block the second, after eating the first. And this was available before, too. But this option is very risk, because it opens your head easily.

I don't see any changes to Big Nog's moveset in game or Lil Nog's

At least that's there.
On moving your head after hitsun.
I feel you should be able to since leaning in/ducking nullifies some damage from body shots.

That's actually a pretty good hierarchy given that I didn't explicitly test for it.

Latency might mess with it but with anyone with a decent head movement rating you should be able to block the first and duck the second.
There's some leeway in releasing the block. 6 frames before contact will leave it locked in.

This statement is false. The gap between the top tier and bottom has widened. Because it takes far more body strikes to benefit from body punches, your own fighter gasses out from the required volume. The deeper lower tier fighters go into fights, the worse off they are. Also, the "Just use a fighter with better head movement" answer to people's issues is exactly what's wrong. You can't have a game mechanic that only works for top tier.
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Does anyone know what Souza had buffed?
I assume it was his striking but it looks aboooout the same to me, maybe his power/speed is a point or two higher, can't be sure.
Glad to see Rothwell has a chin now and RDA's cardio/ground buff, Matt Brown has higher power now I thiiiink, too.
Good work guys!

You can do it against the first one. You could before the patch, too.

If you mean that a lesser fighter could even the odds more easily with the old body spam, you're right. But it goes both ways. And if both players used many body shots effectively, they would have their stamina go down faster which is bad for the fighter with the worse stamina.
Good thing that is not the case. A higher head movement stat would help with teh timing in general, specially cold turkey timing. But as has been said twice in the recent posts, anybody can block and slip in time. This was the key breakpoint for how slow head movement could be and how fast the combos could be on block.

Sorry some clarity on this?

I've been playing the AI in three round fights while experimenting by targeting their body more than anything else, and I tend to get their stamina down to like 20% with about 2 minutes left in the 3rd round. That's horse ****.
Hurry up and get sliders into Event Mode so I can compensate for your caving to A.D.D kids online that will just find something new that is "OP" to bitch about in the next 48 hours.

Ma' bad. You can do it against the first one in the sense that you'll have time to do it. The leaning armor works fine against body punches. The issue is that after eating one, you can't lean in time for the next (2nd one).

Take a high stamina fighter like Nate Diaz vs a low to mid stamina fighter. Before the patch, Diaz already had a stamina advantage and could sneak in body hooks, with their built in ability to dodge all linear strikes, to widen that gulf over time and make the delta between your stamina even wider as the fight went on.
Now every time someone tries to chip your stamina, they are putting themselves at extreme risk, which means that as long as you manage your output effectively, you should be gassing way less with the low stamina fighter than you did before the patch.
This tuner benefits the low to mid tier stamina fighters A LOT. Because chipping away at their already bad stamina has become a lot more dangerous for whoever tries to do so.
And if you use body punches with setups (instead of throwing them naked) or as a punish after someone whiffs or blows their stamina trying to hurt you, you can still do a lot of stamina damage.
Basically body punches reward playing smart now and punish leading with them for easy mindless rushdown chip.

First real misstep from the devs imo. Despite hyperbole body punches were never really the be all and end all people made them out to be. Whats the point in throwing body punches now it seems ridiculously high risk for little reward.
Theres a fair bit of nuance in the head striking in the game with distance, different head movement and strikes. Compare this to the best option no matter what body punch the opponent throws is ALWAYS mash uppercut.

Umm no - it's definitely not as wide.

Welcome to MMA. Body punches aren't a primary form of offense.
They're still completely viable and available - you just have to work them into combinations now (much more realistic).

10 rocks a fight and 10 knockdowns from leg kicks aren't either. The juice isn't worth the squeeze with body punching now. Why try and whittle down the body at all when you just leave yourself vulnerable and the long term stamina nerf isn't enough to slow down the top tier? It's a far better choice to finish the combo to the head and get the rocks along with the rocked state stamina advantage. The vulnerability changes were welcome and enough
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Checked for the tuner update ..didn't get it ???
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Yeah in real MMA a single hard body kick or punch combo to the body, timed well, could DRASTICALLY effect a fighters performance for the rest of the fight. They are rare because of the risk, but when used effectively can be devastating.
Lets not pretend thats how body shots work right now in the game. Now they are more risky AND require more volume than before to be effective. We should be pushing for a negative correlation between risk and required volume when it comes to body shots. So basically, as risk of throwing body shots increases, required volume to achieve effective stamina drain should decrease.

^
I definitely agree. Anybody who hates body shots shouldn't worry about this as spamming would lead to a counter KO via uppercut. The few body shots I do land... I want them to have an impact. I don't think the current stamina drain is enough. You don't want to go too wild with it but risk/reward seems off right now.

This. The long term stamina effects were in parity with the rest of the health/damage system pre tuner. The vulnerability changes alone were enough to kill the spam. Risk reward isn't rewarding enough. Buff long term stamina tax to where it was.
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Oh no the first misstep was your play style. Anyone that prefers the old body shots vs the new body shots has too much cheese in their game.

Damn 10 knockdowns from leg kicks?

I think this happens with low move level and no perk low kicks, because you can't do enough damage to get a finish, but you can do enough to get a knockdown, so you end up getting a ridiculous number of knockdowns, whereas with Aldo and RDA, I've gotten low kick finishes without any knockdowns because they have really good low kicks and perks.

I'm honestly not sure they are viable. The amount you would have to land to significantly affect the fight isn't worth setting them up behind 2-3 punch combinations. You're not ever going to get a body finish against anyone above 1500 points. The stamina drain isn't worth the risk.
The old body punches had their risks but apparently having to use 2 punches instead of just one to counter every single body punch was too much for people to handle. I get the game has to be catered to everyone. I'd have preferred the vulnerability been bumped up if anything, so if you actually had a read on someone and caught them coming in it was catastrophic for them.
The current fix feels like a step back in terms of skill gap and will lead to people stood in each other's faces holding block fishing for sway counters more than what is currently happening. The game for honor had a load of potential but high level play settled on people staring at each other blocking, abusing the characters with the only real mix ups because everything was way too easy to counter. You need tools to open people up, taking them away leads to stale, risk averse gameplay.

For real, we’ve got one guy in the top ten mad that it’s not going to be as easy to win anymore and another one pissed that he couldn’t lower his opponent’s stamina to 20% BEFORE the third round. Do these guys even read what they’re saying?
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I made a thread on this.. had 10+ knockdowns with Lineker who doesn’t have any perks, and then experienced similar results with Marlon Moraes who has Tree Chopper perks and Muay Thai Combos.
This was during EA Access though and I haven’t played the game since so I’m not sure if it’s still like that.

Mostly agree here. Top level play looks silly to me at the moment

It's fine and a big improvement over what we had. Previously guys were walking forward leading with nothing but body shots (silly).
The only thing that needs adjusted now is stamina!

To me too. A lot of it is like you're in a moving phone booth with force fields around your heads.
There are a good amount that don't fight like this too.... but I can see it becoming more popular. It also just shouldn't be a thing in the first place.

what needs to be done with stamina? it seems like you ont want no stamina drain at all.

I think the #1 contributing factor to that is the fact that we removed stopping power on tight range straights.
Which was requested by the community, and made a lot of sense, but I feel it had unintended consequences.
I'm looking to rework that a bit.

You've misunderstood what he's talking about. He's talking about how low the stamina drain is on landed or blocked shots, not the drain on body punches (I think, not a mind reader)

Strike output stamina needs tuned massively. I'm routinely throwing 100-150 strikes per round no problem as are my opponents. That's problematic.
Rarely does anyone punch the body repeatedly in MMA. This isn't fight night.

I think that's a factor, yeah. I think the blocking is a problem though man. Like remember how in UFC 2 when you'd hold block and move forward you'd move significantly slower? In this game your movement speed is the same so you can just follow your opponent around and look for an uppercut counter. Having that movement speed while blocking your entire head isn't realistic or balanced so it makes sense to change it. The lunges don't seem useful enough to get away either. Those having a buff could help. They do help a bit now, but not much because of the aforementioned. The block being so strong is also an issue.
Breaking the block of a non-hurt opponent isn't an effective strategy against someone looking for small, compact, sneaky counters either. You'll use up a bunch of stamina and eat counter uppercuts while you're doing it. Like irl you're not blocking punches from all angles. As you know because the mechanics in the game show that. I just wonder if there's a way to make punches get through easier so that phone booth fighting isn't as much of a thing... but also so it's not a case of whoever blitzes first wins. A good balance would have to be found and I think it's definitely possible.
These are some solutions I've thought of anyway.

Not that I really want this well known but after someone gets rocked in a random sway counter fest, all you have to do for a knock down or KO is four jabs and then an overhand/hook.
Really, really silly looking and hopefully unintended

It's intended and easy to defend against if it's the only block break combo people use.

that sounds unrealistic.

Yet people want more aggressive block breaking than that because the block is currently too strong.
Can't have it both ways.
And the inspiration comes from how when someone turtles up, they start to over protect either the front or side of their heads, leaving an opening to the opposite.
Like this, where hook spam causes the arms to protect the side and leave the middle open for uppercuts.

Our animations don't support it yet, but the system was designed around this type of look.

It's not unrealistic whatsoever. This is a huge part of ALL striking combat sports.
What is unrealistic is an almost unbreakable block and the ability to move as fast as your opponent with such great blocking technique. Like if you watch other fights (talking to everybody) and then watch a phone booth/sway counter block fest on UFC 3. That's not how fights are. There's distance between the fighters at basically all times unless someone is getting lit up.

You're right, the block speed thing might help too.
I left out the slow down because I didn't want people blocking and retreating to get closed down too easily, but the opposite may have cause some of the crowding issues.
I'll add that to my list of things to try.

I think the block movement slowdown is great idea.
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It might be...just need to make sure we don't take away options from people.
Right now if you're in kicking range and someone moves forward towards you, you can press away on the stick and keep your range.
If you're a kicker like Thompson that's very important.
With the slow down, if someone hold block and moves forward and you press away, you'll now move out of kicking range.
That may be the opposite of what you want.
So I need to think through all the scenarios and see how it should work in each.
There's a lot more intricacy to the movement speed in the game that people realize on the surface, all to make range management easier.

Yeah, I think it's a great idea, maybe have backwards movement slowed down less by blocking though, so you aren't screwed when you're rocked?

Would increasing the damage received from strikes while moving forward also help?
That way if you’re moving forward it’s much easier to have your guard broken or get slept.

Block should break down easier. I agree.
To counter balance the stamina drain and damage from missed/blocked/landed shots should be increased.

In UFC 2 your short term stamina would regen slower if you were holding block.
Why was this taken out? I thought it was a good way to punish ppl who didn't use all of their tools to defend attacks

What about the ducking uppercuts and swaying strikes. This is especially deadly since the rear uppercut into lead hook is so powerful.

Maybe I'm seeing things, but I actually think the animations reflect the block busts. When work the block fully with FFFS, I think their hands stay both at front when the head kick lands. Whereas when I work the block almost fully with an FFS, the hands adapt for the head kick. It seems easy to see in the replays.

They do in that sense. But what I wanted to do was have the block animation change as the block meter started to swing to the F or S side of things, to give you a cue that the block was ready to be broken.

Right now, it feels like a game of fishing for a swaying uppercut counter fest. Would love to play against a 'good' player to prove me otherwise. Not trying to sound like an ***, I'm legitmately any to get better at whatever this new meta is.
I saw more striking variation before this tuning update to be honest.

Really? I saw the meta degrading to a constant mixup of 3 different body strikes before this update.

A "good" player is just going to abuse it more. Watch "good" players on twitch, all the fights are are two guys nose to nose randomly bobbing and moving their head like they're listening to hip hop until someone gets a double hook and a rock. Rinse, repeat.

This is pretty much what I see but it's very divisive on this forum. It quite literally reminds me of when Fight Night Champion released and people just pump blocked for a counter. Like I said, people say it's 'fine' and I believe them. My question is, how are people combating this?