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If You Built a Team Like the Warriors in Previous Years, Would You Have Considered it Sim?

NBA 2K17

If You Built a Team Like the Warriors in Previous Years, Would You Have Considered it Sim?

Last night, the Warriors once again dominated the Cavs on their way to a 2-0 Series lead and a 14-0 mark in the NBA Playoffs. This type of dominance is something which you’d expect if you were playing a video game.

On a rookie level.

With a 12 year old who decided to build a super team to play MyGM with.

Kevin Durant and Steph Curry are both at the top of their game (and likely the top of the game), their supporting cast is more than capable and have delivered an NBA championship sans Durant already.

The question of “what is sim” has come up a lot in the community over the past year — and the Warriors are a prime example that sometimes crazy scenarios happen. In this case, it was a team having managed their budged so well being able to add a second MVP-caliber superstar to its roster without giving up anything huge through free agency.

If such a scenario happened to present itself to you in NBA 2K18 or NBA 2K17, would you consider it sim to sign a second superstar? Before Durant signed last year, would your opinion have been different?

Lastly, what type of ‘self-enforced’ rules do you put on yourself, if any, when playing a mode like MyGM?

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  1. In a sim league with sim rules most of us probably would've been booted if we ran the Golden State offense in a sim league. Heck putting Draymond at Center would've started up some real drama in league chat groups as well.
    If the option presented itself, hell yeah I make that signing in 2K. I might not agree with it, but I'm old school. In my opinion you stick with your team to try and slay the giant. Durant took the easy way out and to me, that will taint any legacy he leaves behind.
    That doesn't mean it wasn't a smart move for him or the Warriors, I just don't agree with it. Self imposed rules? There are no rules in NBA free agency, anymore. LeBron and Durant threw that notion right out the window.
    As long as there was no manipulation of the CPU's trading and free agent signing A.I.. then yeah it would be Sim. Ironically because there aren't enough personality types in the game to govern these kinds of things, it would be totally logical in game that a Durant would sign with the Warriors, because winning would be the only thing that should be considered. Perceived legacy wouldn't be taken into account.
    As a player playing a MyLeague, I wouldn't do it because I would want a greater challenge in trying to win the title, or if I did get a super team, I would want to get it by building through the draft.
    I definitely would have considered the current Warriors lineup to be way, way too overpowered -- it's like adding in a classic team (say, the 96 Bulls) to the current day rosters and watching them run roughshod. Just unfair.
    I do play with self-imposed roles in MyLeague -- I control all teams (because the AI is, predictably, not up to the task) and am very careful with trades and signings. I try to make it make sense -- and I try to keep most teams out of the luxury tax (which, for many teams, is just a place they can't live for long).
    Super-duper teams like the Warriors are very rare in my playthroughs. Usually Golden State is forced to break the team up within 2-3 years because of the cap issues, and that means letting Durant walk in free agency or trading away Draymond or picking up cheaper talent.
    I strive to make sure Billy King like trades are never, ever done. The plight of the Nets is one of the travesties of sports. Never again.
    6 or 7 teams could have drafted Steph. Klay was like the 10th pick or something so even more could have drafted him. Draymond was a 2nd rounder so the entire league passed up on him once. If you draft well you should be rewarded. Steph being injured early on allowed the team to sign him for about half of what he was worth. If not then Durant wouldn't have been possible unless he took a huge cut. So that, coupled with the exploding cap created the unique circumstance that is Golden State. They drafted and developed a great team. Then at the end they had enough cap space to not only sign a top 2 player in the league but have him want to join a stacked roster. It'll probably never happen again but it was organic all the way. Not like the big 3 going to Miami. So I would consider it sim.
    trekfan

    I strive to make sure Billy King like trades are never, ever done. The plight of the Nets is one of the travesties of sports. Never again.

    I'm surprised that dude isn't in a witness protection program somewhere. LOL! Especially after watching a really good C's team play in the ECF and still get the number one pick. Rich getting richer while the Nets are painfully bereft of talent.
    Junior Moe
    I'm surprised that dude isn't in a witness protection program somewhere. LOL! Especially after watching a really good C's team play in the ECF and still get the number one pick. Rich getting richer while the Nets are painfully bereft of talent.

    Like, he's gone from the world of basketball. I have no idea what he's doing -- I recall he was reassigned after Marks got hired, but where he is in the Nets organization is unknown.
    Buried in a basement watching film, maybe. Wherever he is, his name will live in infamy for making some of the worst trades (if not THE worst trade) in the last 10-15 years.
    No and it's quite boring just like in real life. I remember making a thread about how easy it is to rebuild in 2K17 even on the hardest settings the CPU will offer you hilariously bad trades. It never took me more than 3 seasons to become the best team in the league and it sucks. That plus the wack tendencies in the game make it a little boring so I've been trying to stay more realistic, but with the warriors, man, you almost have to build a super team just to contend. It's crazy.
    Before the Celtics ruined the NBA by starting the super team fad, yes I would think it unsim. Now, anything goes if I can fit it under the cap. I find it's much harder to sign elite talent in 2k than other sports games anyway.
    What most people fail to realize is that the Warriors built their entire core through the draft, and added Durrant to it.
    I've built teams like this in every MyLeague on HOF with 70 Trade difficulty, and in every MyGm, Through the DRAFT. And because of this, I had enough money If I wanted to (Rarely did) sign an Allstar during free agency. If you stick to one team and build through the draft you'll be able to do the same thing. If you pull a LeBron and combine 3 players with 20 mill contracts your team won't have cap space.
    This is a great question. I definitely would not have considered it "SIM". Hell, I wouldn't have considered the Heat adding LeBron ""SIM". I love franchise modes. All I do. But sometimes I have trouble continuing if I don't have a struggling underdog team. I feel once I add a couple stars I feel like I'm cheating. For instance I'm in my third year of my Phillies franchise. In my second offseason I signed McCutheon. In my third offseason I signed Machado and then trade Nola, Franco, Herrera,  Moniak, a top 50 prospect and andother prospect who was 19  with B potential and already a 58 for Trout and a bottom player. And 30 games in I just don't feel right. 
    "People would go crazy if you ran kd or bron at center. Cheesers were ahead of the curve. Ha. Analytics 2 years ago would be called cheese."
    This is why I don't understand when people complain about 2k not being Sim, not being realistic, or there being "cheese" in the game. Who is to say what is sim or cheese? What Steph Curry was doing last season wouldn't have been considered realistic or Sim if it was being done in a videogame. If you were to have a My Player that could pull up from just about anywhere and jacked up 3s at will people would be complaining about how "cheesey" that My Player is and how the user controlling him doesn't play "real basketball." Durant himself isn't quite realistic. A 7ft player that moves and shoots better than just about any 2 guard in the game? Westbrook basically "cheesed" his way to a triple double average this season.
    The lines between sim, realistic, smart basketball and non-realistic, videogame cheese have really been blurred over the years. The more athletic and talented players get the less sim the league seems to get.
    Godgers12
    Before the Celtics ruined the NBA by starting the super team fad, yes I would think it unsim. Now, anything goes if I can fit it under the cap. I find it's much harder to sign elite talent in 2k than other sports games anyway.
    What most people fail to realize is that the Warriors built their entire core through the draft, and added Durrant to it.

    I can't blame the Celtics. In order to form a superteam two other teams (the Sonics and Twolves) had to be complicit in trading away their star talent. I think the Sonics ended up drafting Durant because of the trade so not a total loss on their part.
    mryan2
    This is a great question. I definitely would not have considered it "SIM". Hell, I wouldn't have considered the Heat adding LeBron ""SIM". I love franchise modes. All I do. But sometimes I have trouble continuing if I don't have a struggling underdog team. I feel once I add a couple stars I feel like I'm cheating. For instance I'm in my third year of my Phillies franchise. In my second offseason I signed McCutheon. In my third offseason I signed Machado and then trade Nola, Franco, Herrera, *Moniak, a top 50 prospect and andother prospect who was 19 *with B potential and already a 58 for Trout and a bottom player. And 30 games in I just don't feel right.*

    Until the ai is sophisticated enough to differentiate players i think we have to have some house rules if you want to enjoy a long "realistic" franchise. The ai doesn't know that LeBron is the best player of his generation. It doesn't know that Mike Trout is a complete monster on a hall of fame track. It's one reason why I don't trade for or sign good players to my team. Is just too easy to manipulate the game and that kills the fun of building a team.
    Junior Moe
    6 or 7 teams could have drafted Steph. Klay was like the 10th pick or something so even more could have drafted him. Draymond was a 2nd rounder so the entire league passed up on him once. If you draft well you should be rewarded. Steph being injured early on allowed the team to sign him for about half of what he was worth. If not then Durant wouldn't have been possible unless he took a huge cut. So that, coupled with the exploding cap created the unique circumstance that is Golden State. They drafted and developed a great team. Then at the end they had enough cap space to not only sign a top 2 player in the league but have him want to join a stacked roster. It'll probably never happen again but it was organic all the way. Not like the big 3 going to Miami. So I would consider it sim.

    Nice. Don't see that perspective often.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Junior Moe nailed it. There's nothing cheesy about building a team with a #7, #11, and #35 draft pick, and then adding one free agent when the cap happened to spike. Lost among all of the talent talk is that the Warriors all play unselfish team ball. They play incredible defense. Steve Kerr does not get enough credit for the way they play. There are jokes about anyone being able to coach the Warriors, but that's bull****. Kerr is very important. The character of the players in very important. There was also some luck involved with Curry getting his contract extension before he broke out as an MVP.
    If you think that talent alone wins ball games, then ask yourself why Kentucky doesn't win the NCAA title more often. It's because chemistry and coaching are undervalued. You don't win games on paper.
    I would consider that team OP.
    KD in his prime going to the 2nd best team in the NBA that didn't need another star? That's like if Kawhi Leonard joined the current Cavs team.
    Their championships are watered down and as a fan I won't be that impressed by their success, it's expected.
    I have quit plenty of franchise modes from teams I thought were over powered and still no where close to how stacked the Warriors or even the Cavs are in real life.
    This is actually my main problem with the NBA right now it effects my 2k dynasty because I feel I have to make a super team just to even stand a chance of winning a championship.
    I love shooting but the NBA has ruined the other aspects of the game and in particular post play.
    If you are allowed to post in the NBA, especially in the playoffs, it's only at home. Blame the NBA for ruining the post game for allowing defenders to push and shove post players out to nearly the three point line before they can get the ball basically eliminating post play. (Blame them again for eliminating the center position from the all star ballot.)
    If you combine that with bigs being able to grab and hold defenders on screens and basically make a mad dash to shove their way down to the restricted area to get offensive rebounds it sets the stage for the long ball.
    And don't even get me started on the collective bargaining agreement that allows every other team in the league to pay Paul George more than the team that drafted him so these super teams can be created.
    Oh and better not mention that stupid three point foul called on the screen where the defender gets deflected into the shooter getting three shots.
    That call is as bad as three seconds being called half a dozen times a 12 minute quarter game in NBA2K17.
    Like in real basketball, the goal is to assemble the best team you can, and the goal is to win every game. In old 2K I would always play with my Sixers, and I'd have AI already. My goal was always to get Garnett on my team. Either by sign or trade. Sometimes I'd get him then the game would become too easy. Later on when the game would get easy i'd loose interest. I still have a similar approach but im a little mindful, knowing if I become too powerful it will ruin it. I have had some pretty stacked teams in my day. But most, LIKE the real Warriors would lack a bench. (On paper the Warriors bench don't look great, but they play great in that system)
    SirGaryColeman
    I would consider that team OP.
    KD in his prime going to the 2nd best team in the NBA that didn't need another star? That's like if Kawhi Leonard joined the current Cavs team.
    Their championships are watered down and as a fan I won't be that impressed by their success, it's expected.

    Then you shouldn't be impressed by the many many stacked NBA teams that came before the Warriors. 83 Sixers, those 80's Lakers and Celtics teams, the 04 Pistons. If we're simply going dominance the Lakers 3peated only loosing 3 finals games in 3 seasons. Even tho Jordan didn't have a big 3 they dominated the finals in the 90's. Its nothing new.
    That's why I never really bought into the whole SIM thing. I've seen some leagues w/ some ridiculous rules. Things like you can only have so many points in the paint, attempt a certain amount of 3s, only run a fast pace offense if you have certain teams and etc. It's just was ridiculous.
    So if I am killing from 3 and I have someone open I supposed to pass up on it so I want go pass the limit of 3s in a half?
    You just have to find people that just play basketball is all I can call it. I just don't want you to exploit the game w/ things like in the past such as constantly spin dunking or etc.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It would be sim and be no problem because he was signed as a FA. Now had a user had last year's Warriors and took advantage of poor AI trade logic that would be different. But as far as sim style and free agents go, if you got the cap room, and it is not because you took advantage of exploits (e.g. change player's position prior to signing), then its all good.
    As far as self imposed rules go, I really don't have any rigid rule I follow other than a broad "is this realistic" approach. I approach sports games as if the AI controlled teams are human controlled rather than an AI only looking at numbers. I put myself in the other team's shoes and ask would this trade be plausible to me? It varies from game to game though. I follow my guidelines in football the most, followed by basketball, because those 2 sports are the ones I follow more. Whereas in MLB The Show, if the AI accepts a trade I am likely to go through with it. 
    I agree that some "Sim style" online leagues impose way too many arbitrary rules though. The mark of a good sim league is not the amount of house rules, it is the mindset of the players. 
    I keep seeing people thinking this team was built in FA, yet 3 of the starting 5 were drafted by the Warriors.
    How is that not sim? If anything, what the Heat did wasn't sim, and remember that in 2015 GSW didn't have KD and still won.
    I'm not even a GSW fan, i just hate how terrible the fanbases of GSW and CLE are while the rivalry between the teams is reminding of the great 90's and 80's rivalries.
    Yes KD made this season boring, but how is this not sim while Kareem moving to LA is? Was Shaq signing with LA sim? I realize I don't have examples that aren't in LA but still
    Reminder: OKC lost Durant because they couldn't reasonably ($$$) keep Harden under the old cap.
    OKC was better at this team building thing than the Warriors were.
    mrchiggs
    Then you shouldn't be impressed by the many many stacked NBA teams that came before the Warriors. 83 Sixers, those 80's Lakers and Celtics teams, the 04 Pistons. If we're simply going dominance the Lakers 3peated only loosing 3 finals games in 3 seasons. Even tho Jordan didn't have a big 3 they dominated the finals in the 90's. Its nothing new.

    I disagree strongly about the Pistons. The year they won was a complete surprise and at the time none of those players were really stars, besides maybe Rasheed Wallace (his behavior issue really hurt his image as a player.) No one looked at that team and thought "wow look at all the talent they assembled!" Actually that's what they were saying about the team they beat in the finals (the Lakers with Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton, and Karl Malone). A lot of those Pistons players were cast offs from other teams. What made them great was how well they played team basketball together, similar to the Spurs teams that won throughtout the 2000s.
    Durant joining the GSW is okay, but Derrick Rose, the 2011 MVP joining Carmelo ****ing Anthony and Porzingis to form a mega team is where I draw the line.
    Jrocc23
    That's why I never really bought into the whole SIM thing. I've seen some leagues w/ some ridiculous rules. Things like you can only have so many points in the paint, attempt a certain amount of 3s, only run a fast pace offense if you have certain teams and etc. It's just was ridiculous.
    So if I am killing from 3 and I have someone open I supposed to pass up on it so I want go pass the limit of 3s in a half?
    You just have to find people that just play basketball is all I can call it. I just don't want you to exploit the game w/ things like in the past such as constantly spin dunking or etc.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Completely agree. Just take the warriors play style for example. Before the warriors became successful people kind of frowned upon teams and players that attempted a lot of 3s. There was a long held belief that you couldn't win with 3 point shooting and I know in the past, and maybe still in the present, people didn't like players (videogame players that is) that took a lot of threes. It wasn't seen as sim or realistic.
    Now if you look at the warriors and a lot of other teams in the league that is where this league is going. NBA teams and players are attempting more 3s. Even the bigs are getting involved. In the past the thought of a PF, or heaven forbid a center, putting up a 3 was cringeworthy. Now you see more and more big playing away from the rim and developing a 3 point jumper.
    At the end of the day it is about winning and in real life players and teams aren't going to prevent themselves from playing a certain way because it's not seen as "sim". Imagine Shaq deciding "you know what it's not fair that I can dominate in the post against almost any defender so I'm going to make it harder for myself." Or Curry deciding "I can shoot from almost anywhere behind the arc but it doesn't follow tradition basketball logic so I should take more mid range jumpers and pass to the bigs in the post." The game changes and teams and players are going to employ whatever strategy that gives them the best chance to win.
    People keep forgetting that the Warriors , in real life, built this team through the Draft. Curry, Thompson, and Green were all drafted. They had enough cap space to sign Durant, he talked to other teams, but picked GSW.
    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    mrchiggs
    Then you shouldn't be impressed by the many many stacked NBA teams that came before the Warriors. 83 Sixers, those 80's Lakers and Celtics teams, the 04 Pistons. If we're simply going dominance the Lakers 3peated only loosing 3 finals games in 3 seasons. Even tho Jordan didn't have a big 3 they dominated the finals in the 90's. Its nothing new.

    You can even go back to the Celtics in the 60s and even in the 70s they kept going to the Finals
    scottyp180
    I disagree strongly about the Pistons. The year they won was a complete surprise and at the time none of those players were really stars, besides maybe Rasheed Wallace (his behavior issue really hurt his image as a player.) No one looked at that team and thought "wow look at all the talent they assembled!" Actually that's what they were saying about the team they beat in the finals (the Lakers with Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton, and Karl Malone). A lot of those Pistons players were cast offs from other teams. What made them great was how well they played team basketball together, similar to the Spurs teams that won throughtout the 2000s.

    Pistons were called things like the "team with no star" too.
    All I know is I've never seen any scenario where an MVP in the prime of his career left a great team to join an already stacked rival team.
    The Warriors were "stacked" and now they're OP. They did not need KD.
    It'd be like if Kawhi Leonard went to the Cavs... crazy.
    SirGaryColeman
    Pistons were called things like the "team with no star" too.
    All I know is I've never seen any scenario where an MVP in the prime of his career left a great team to join an already stacked rival team.
    The Warriors were "stacked" and now they're OP. They did not need KD.
    It'd be like if Kawhi Leonard went to the Cavs... crazy.

    It is a unique, unprecedented situation. I personally don't necessarily blame Durant. He was presented with an opportunity to form a team that will likely go down as one of the greatest teams ever.
    With the emphasis that the media and fans place on winning championships it's no wonder why players form these super teams. For Durant specifically, joining the Warriors not only gave him the best chance to win one championship but multiple rings as well. It's a bit ironic that a player's legacy can be hurt for not winning a championship but if they join a team that is too good they still receive negativity. but I understand that double edged sword.
    scottyp180
    It is a unique, unprecedented situation. I personally don't necessarily blame Durant. He was presented with an opportunity to form a team that will likely go down as one of the greatest teams ever.
    With the emphasis that the media and fans place on winning championships it's no wonder why players form these super teams. For Durant specifically, joining the Warriors not only gave him the best chance to win one championship but multiple rings as well. It's a bit ironic that a player's legacy can be hurt for not winning a championship but if they join a team that is too good they still receive negativity. but I understand that double edged sword.

    I also think context matters. KD going to Golden State is fine but it's different from LeBron or even the Celtics Big three to me. They went, and we're instrumental, to those teams winning titles. The Warriors had already won one and were a historically good team record wise. If Stephan wasn't dinged up and Dray suspended the Warriors probably wouldn't have lost last year. KD feels like Malone and Payton at the end of their careers when they joined the Lakers except he's still in his prime. He's a HOFer no doubt but no matter how many titles he wins I don't think he'll ever be revered like guys who actually helped to build championship teams. I think that's fine with him too.
    The way Durant is playing in this series....I don't know what the answer for him is. Game 2 was unbelievable. You have a 6'10" player with ball speed, can take you off the drive like guard, can hit 3s open and contested, can make circus shots after the foul, and can play lockdown defense on the other end.
    In a Sim scenario, if you played against someone using Durant like this you would say he was overpowered. Durants body type and what he's able to do was something MyPark tried to fix, but it's a real life thing. Durant is living , breathing Cheese lol
    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    Everything is "sim" if that action that can be justified by other actions that led to that action, lol, if that makes any sense.
    For example, KD going to GS can be justified by his desire to play for a championship level team, and him and Russ not getting along on the court along with a plethora of other reasons. Now in a video game, if that was explained easily to you you can certainly justify KD jumping ship in the realm of "sim". If OKC's team chemistry was at anywhere from 80 to 100 percent, his desires had loyalty really high and ahead of play for a winning team and he makes that decision, then I can't justify it, it doesn't make sense to me, therefore not sim and I would nix that from happening.
    I try not to consider something not "sim" if I don't why it was done and my first impression hated the outcome. If I can justify what the CPU did by looking at historical stats, players desires/tendencies,age etc.. then I have to let teams fail and succeed on it's own, that is my version of "sim" in my offline MyLeague world.
    Honestly, what the Cavs did was less "sim" than what the GSW did. After losing LeBron to the Heat they:
    -Won the lottery three times despite never having the projected number one pick.
    -One pick was acquired by trading Mo Williams and Jamario Moon to the Clippers for Baron Davis and a first (highly questionable in retrospect). This pick turned into the projected 8th pick in the draft and had a 2.8% chance of winning the lottery (which it did). The Cavs drafted Irving with this pick.
    -Another pick that won the lottery was the projected 9th pick and had 1.7% chance of winning. They used this to draft Wiggins who they traded for All-Star Kevin Love. Not really a questionable trade by any means but I would be pulling my hair out trying to win the lottery with the 8th and 9th projected pick.
    -After going 33-49 they sign the best player in the game. Without considering the real life circumstances that's about the most 2k MyLeague thing one can do.
    -Questionable trade for JR Smith and Iman Shumpert, two of the "cheesiest" players in 2k for years, and a first for Waiters, Amundson and scraps.
    -Questionable trade for Frye
    -Questionable trade for Korver, easily one of the best shooters in the game, for an aging Mike Dunlevy and an aging Mo Williams (poor Mo always getting traded). If the Hawks are trying to rebuild (which I assume they kinda are)how do they not get a pick out of this.
    -Somehow acquired Deron Williams. He is a very capable backup play maker and pg (until these finals lol), something the Cavs desperately needed.
    -Also acquired Bogut from free agency (but I guess they forgot to turn off injuries).
    -Signed Larry Sanders, something else you only see in 2k. I say this because some argued he shouldn't have even been in the game since he retired. Despite that fact he was always a great defensive center who was immediately available in 2k.
    We've had "Super Teams" before, but this one is the "Super Team of Super Teams" at the very least.
    The interesting thing will be to see how the rest of the league responds. Do you think we're gonna see a few more super teams form to counter GSW?
    Yeah I ended up with a team like this after 3 years of MyGM and had to make a new save I was so bored. GS did do it naturally up until KD tho. They were talking to him during the season. I can't be convinced otherwise
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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