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PGA TOUR 2K21 Announced, Teaser Trailer Revealed - Full Details Arrive on May 14

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PGA TOUR 2K21

PGA TOUR 2K21 Announced, Teaser Trailer Revealed - Full Details Arrive on May 14

2K partnered with HB Studios to publish The Golf Club 2019 Featuring PGA TOUR, back in August of 2018. Today, 2K has officially announced a rebrand and released a teaser trailer for PGA TOUR 2K21, with plans to reveal full details on May 14.

We’ve captured some screenshots from the teaser trailer below. Let the speculation begin!

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  1. That’s awesome. Hopefully it’ll be with real courses and players. I’m sure there will some sort of “my team” type mode attached to this or another gimmick. Crossing fingers with 2k’s support it’ll be on a similar engine as nba.
    An interesting thing to note:
    In the teaser video, they show the systems that PGA Tour 2K21 will be available on...and PC/Steam is not one of them. Neither are the next-gen consoles.

    EDIT - over on the TGC Tours forums, they have confirmed that PC will be supported, that the course creator will return in PGA Tour 2K21, and that some folks in the know say they "been listening to feedback extensively" this time around" and have been sworn to secrecy on a few things but there are "big improvements" on the way.
    The video is a nothing burger to me, other than to show it is probably going to look just like 2019 still. It's high up and only one there, but the bunker tech looks the same -- the crowd looks like the same zombie people that don't even beat what TW had over a decade ago...
    To me the question is - are there real substantive upgrades and changes, or are we rolling out the hype machine for yet another refresh on the same old game with all it's pros/cons/issues/etc?
    I'm not a member at HB anymore, but I can imagine this makes a few old likely characters wet their pants with unjustified hype right now - lol
    "GO HB!"
    "We never doubted you!"
    "Even though you dumped updates 18 months ago for 2019, our wallets are ready!"
    "Take my money (for another version of the same game)!"
    Never bought The Golf Club. Haven't had a game since Rory, which was disappointing for the most part. Seems like it's clear they're rolling this game out soon, thus no next gen platforms. If they actually have a decent course selection and real player names, I'll probably get it. I guess we'll see.
    scagwi
    The video is a nothing burger to me, other than to show it is probably going to look just like 2019 still. It's high up and only one there, but the bunker tech looks the same -- the crowd looks like the same zombie people that don't even beat what TW had over a decade ago...
    To me the question is - are there real substantive upgrades and changes, or are we rolling out the hype machine for yet another refresh on the same old game with all it's pros/cons/issues/etc?

    It's going to look pretty much the same, I'm sure. I remember one of the developer answering a question about change of engine, and he said it was out of question. They could do what they wanted to do with the Unity engine.
    It looks like there could be no PC with this one. With now officially a 2K game, it will be interesting to see if the course creator is still there. After all, 2K and micro-transactions goes together.
    What's interesting here, too, is that a lot of social media accounts from a broad range of areas are picking up on this announcement, and it's mostly because of the 2K branding - like Dick's Sporting Goods and other random accounts. So it's a genius move to change the name.
    But several of the posts I see seem to indicate that many people don't realize that The Golf Club and this new PGA Tour 2K21 game are basically the same, cut from the same cloth and designed by the same folks. I have seen people saying that they are hoping 2K21 is nothing like that "Golf Club" series...
    Hmm
    If they go "no PC" and full "2k-it" with micro transactions, it would be a massive regression and downgrade from 2019 - at least in my opinion.
    Seems really curious to omit PC/Steam on that graphic "by mistake". That feels intentional.
    scagwi
    Hmm
    If they go "no PC" and full "2k-it" with micro transactions, it would be a massive regression and downgrade from 2019 - at least in my opinion.
    Seems really curious to omit PC/Steam on that graphic "by mistake". That feels intentional.

    A regular on TGC Tours forums, Crazycanuck1985 (who has been around TGC since the beginning), has confirmed that the game will be on PC, and will have the course creator.
    MrArlingtonBeach
    A regular on TGC Tours forums, Crazycanuck1985 (who has been around TGC since the beginning), has confirmed that the game will be on PC, and will have the course creator.

    Well there you go - makes sense since it looks like it's "2019" with new content and updates that should have been pushed to 2019 itself in the last 18 months of no updates.
    MrArlingtonBeach
    All that's been confirmed via the folks at TGC Tours forums has been "this year".

    Doesn't look like anything about it is "next gen" or waiting on the great new console capabilities, so hopefully sooner rather than later, particularly for 2019 fans who've been waiting a long time.
    Though my hopes aren't super high, I would love if 2K really put some work in. Make it like the nba series and have a park, with player growth. Maybe you have class types for bombers, iron players, short game specialists, putting so you can have multiple guys. Maybe they have a neighborhood so you can team up two man and play best ball / alternate shot. Maybe there's a 5 man "Rec Center" where you play 5v5 with 5 match play evens going on at a time. So many possibilities, I hope there's "something" to it.
    I don't play any other 2k games these days (I play Top Spin 4, but that's very old), but it seems like those that do are worried that:
    "More 2k" usually means "more things like micro-transactions"
    That a concern to the crowd here?
    Or would that not really phase people either way?
    scagwi
    I don't play any other 2k games these days (I play Top Spin 4, but that's very old), but it seems like those that do are worried that:
    "More 2k" usually means "more things like micro-transactions"
    That a concern to the crowd here?
    Or would that not really phase people either way?

    I play NBA2k and anything that you can do with a microtransaction you can do by playing and grinding the game. It might take longer to grind out building your guy by playing, but it can be done, it's just slower. To me, if there are microtransactions in the game, that means there are ways to improve your golfer and to me that is a step in the right direction.
    scagwi
    I don't play any other 2k games these days (I play Top Spin 4, but that's very old), but it seems like those that do are worried that:
    "More 2k" usually means "more things like micro-transactions"
    That a concern to the crowd here?
    Or would that not really phase people either way?

    Very much a concern...that's what turned me away from the NBA 2K series, just micro-transactions everywhere.
    And I do understand that 2K isn't the only one that does it - MLB The Show is basically now just Diamond Dynasty, stubs and card packs, FIFA is just FUT, Madden just MUT.
    At least TGC was a independently designed game that had a cool course creator, solid enough gameplay, and the TGC Tours. The fact that it's now stamped with 2K all over the place has me a little worried about what the give and take was.
    Madden70
    All i want is one thing... 3 Click Swing!!

    I don't think there's any chance of that happening with this series unfortunately.
    They really should just add it though. Why turn off people needlessly?
    It's not like the controller and mouse are some foolproof way to level the playing field and ensure no cheating or anything anyways.
    Let people play with whatever control method they enjoy I say.
    What I do wonder about, in relation to potential DLC/micro-transactions in PGA Tour 2K21 is...what would they actually sell?
    The main draw of The Golf Club has been, to me, the loads and loads of user created courses. So it would be dumb if they all of a sudden decided to add DLC real life courses or something, since most of those courses already have a user made version of it.
    And, unless they completely overhaul the player creation system, there has been no golfer attributes or skills to upgrade.
    I guess it would be equipment, clothes, and things like that. Again, this is only if things stay as they had been with TGC. If there are major changes to how 2K21 does things like Career Mode, then that could open the door for more DLC opportunities.
    MrArlingtonBeach

    The main draw of The Golf Club has been, to me, the loads and loads of user created courses. So it would be dumb if they all of a sudden decided to add DLC real life courses or something, since most of those courses already have a user made version of it.

    Sadly, we probably already know the answer here.
    If there's a prominent course they license for sale, I fully expect them to censor out any third party re-creations of that course.
    I'd imagine they might still sneak through and exist if kept quiet and people share their existence with "code names"
    Go play my new "pink flowers GC" (Augusta) or something - lol
    scagwi
    Sadly, we already know the answer here.
    If there's a prominent course they license for sale, I fully expect them to censor out any third party re-creations of that course.
    I'd imagine they might still sneak through and exist if kept quiet and people share their existence with "code names"
    Go play my new "pink flowers GC" (Augusta) or something - lol

    Haha...true. I mean, they already had to rename "Magnolia National" to "Firethorn National" with the last game. That's probably just the start...
    MrArlingtonBeach
    Haha...true. I mean, they already had to rename "Magnolia National" to "Firethorn National" with the last game. That's probably just the start...

    Yep - the concern could be if they were to get more aggressive about it.
    I'd imagine there's some pattern matching they could do server side with some ML/AI to really weed out unauthorized re-creations if they wanted to.
    It probably depends upon which license we're talking about and how they feel about it.
    I doubt HB/2k really care either way beyond keeping license holders happy..
    ...well now that I say that...
    ..if DLC revenue is involved, they probably all do care
    Let's see what they come up with. Not getting my hopes up as long as they use the same engine with horrible looking bunkers and fake looking rough.
    As long as they include a course creator there is no reason to waste resources on DLC courses since the contributors will at least equal or outdo whatever HB puts out.
    No idea why they are bothering putting out another current gen offering. IF this one bombs I would not be surprised to see 2k abandon the series altogether.
    scagwi
    I'm not a member at HB anymore, but I can imagine this makes a few old likely characters wet their pants with unjustified hype right now - lol

    (Raises Hand)... oh, and you forgot to mention "soiled their skivvies" ;)
    "GO HB!"
    "We never doubted you!"
    "Even though you dumped updates 18 months ago for 2019, our wallets are ready!"
    "Take my money (for another version of the same game)!"

    I'll admit I'm somewhat excited because honestly, I didn't expect anything from them until the Fall, at the earliest. I can't tell what they're doing this time around based on the 12 seconds worth of actual gameplay video they showed. Yeah, it looks a lot like TGC 19, although I did see a little more color variance and clothing types in the crowd.
    I also noticed that they jumped frames as the panning camera was coming back toward the golfer who was about to hit off the 17th tee. I was trying to see if that was a recognizable PGA Tour pro, and they perhaps cut those frames so you couldn't get a close enough look at the face. I may be reading too much into that, but I saw no reason for it to jump suddenly from full body view to close up waist down, when the rest of it had been smoothly tracking back from the green.
    I asked 8 questions about the game in the new 2K21 thread in the official forum that probably aren't going to elicit a response. They aren't going to address those questions in bullet lists or videos either, I suspect, but I'd love for them to prove me wrong.
    In a time when we weren't expecting a new golf game for at least a year, I can't deny that I'm not a little bit stoked by this news, but I've also learned not to raise my hopes too high because more often than not, many of the things that I see as mission critical in a golf game are not on the radar of those who make them.
    JC - you get a pass..
    Your unbridled enthusiasm is always enjoyably refreshing to me.
    Do I find it over the top at times?
    Yep!
    But - I love you for it and it's nice to see (honestly).
    I'm just more skeptical/cynical by nature.
    Big picture I am a bit turned off that after all this time and no updates in 18 months there isn't a more substantial visual update and even perhaps targeting "next gen". The further we got in 2020, the more I was wondering if they might target a splash of being a launch game for the new consoles.
    For instance - look at overhead shot of 17 on Sawgrass. The same weird angles and shapes that need smoothing are there -- i.e. same long time limitations from the course creator all the way back to the very roots of TGC. Sort of meh to me is all.
    It's an official PGA Tour game, so I'm sure there will be some more than welcome change. Guys trying to make their own PGA leaderboard and renaming all of those fictive games as rl golfer, they shouldn't have to do that anymore.
    Now if you can upgrade your golfer along your career as with EA, this will be great for me as a career mode guy. I'm not so sure it will be as well received on the TGC Tour where they want every golfer to be the same. If it's anything like either pay to win or grinding months to upgrade your golfer to top attributes, there could be a lot of unhappy campers over there.
    OnlookerDelay

    I asked 8 questions about the game in the new 2K21 thread in the official forum that probably aren't going to elicit a response. They aren't going to address those questions in bullet lists or videos either, I suspect, but I'd love for them to prove me wrong.

    I saw those and I also saw a lot of similar questions on the Facebook page too.
    It's good to see that many out there do indeed have real demands for another version here. There was a lot of loose stuff "left" with 2019 that they never touched/fixed and all of that should be considered table stakes for this version in my opinion.
    If they release the same graphics, the same general course creator (with all its pros/cons), same physics issues -- but just push hard on more PGA stuff (gear/players/few more courses) --- then it would fall squarely in the "money grab" category to me.
    When this releases it will basically have been 2 years.
    Expectations should not be low for them at this point.
    It's time to deliver something big here.
    I have to believe, going full "2K" with this game, there HAS to be a more in-depth, realistic, and immersive Career Mode. Like NBA 2K has the MyPlayer, MyLeague, and MyGm Modes, I would be pretty excited to see a MyPro Mode, which would be a typical career mode as we've seen in past Tiger Woods games - play tournaments, level up, add gear and apparel, etc.
    But I'd also like to see a MyTour Mode...where you can finally play as real-life PGA Tour pros. You set up the schedule, the host courses, the qualifications for events, etc. It would be a lot like the Societies now, just with more realism in the way it's all set up. Like someone mentioned above, no going thru and needing to rename golfers, tournaments, etc. It would be a Career Mode with all the customization that MyLeague in NBA 2K offers.
    Does 2k actually develop the NBA games themselves or is that also done with a third party shop, like HB.
    I guess this (see below) is really tempering my expectations for "the full 2k"
    Developed by HB Studios. Published by 2K Games, Inc. HB Studios and the HB logo are trademarks of HB Studios Multimedia Limited.
    2k was already in this precise role for the 2019 game.
    Link: https://pgatour.2k.com
    scagwi
    Does 2k actually develop the NBA games themselves or is that also done with a third party shop, like HB.
    I guess this (see below) is really tempering my expectations for "the full 2k"
    Developed by HB Studios. Published by 2K Games, Inc. HB Studios and the HB logo are trademarks of HB Studios Multimedia Limited.
    2k was already in this precise role for the 2019 game.
    Link: https://pgatour.2k.com

    NBA 2K is developed my Visual Concepts. I suspect they have a much tighter working relationship with 2K than HB Studios though, although that could be changing now. It looks like the The Golf Club is being taken out of the title. I'd imagine that was 2K's move.
    OnlookerDelay
    It looks like the The Golf Club is being taken out of the title. I'd imagine that was 2K's move.

    It's a move that makes good sense for sure.
    The Golf Club "featuring the PGA Tour" was sort of a weird hybrid name, especially since it really didn't feature much of the PGA Tour - lol
    Really good observation and comment from CanuckHoser on HB forum:
    As someone that has followed game since before the original was first launched & played this game in every iteration, I find it interesting how much the spirit of the game has changed. When the game first launched in 2014, EA had the PGA licensing tied up. The messaging from Anthony Kyle/HB Studios was making a game that was to have the feel of the “weekend warrior” amateur golfer. No licensed equipment, courses or tour related stuff. The calming voice of John “The Voice” added to it. As we’ve moved forward, (and as the EA license has lapsed), the shift seems to be complete. Licensed courses and gear abound. Even the title no longer reflects The Golf Club.
    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think it necessarily a bad thing, it is just interesting to me how very different this game has become from the original spirit.
    I do think that a my career mode would be pretty fire in a golf game, since it's an individual rather than a team sport, you can tell pretty much any story you want
    OnlookerDelay
    NBA 2K is developed my Visual Concepts. I suspect they have a much tighter working relationship with 2K than HB Studios though, although that could be changing now. It looks like the The Golf Club is being taken out of the title. I'd imagine that was 2K's move.

    You how we'll really know how much of a "Full 2k" game this is now?
    Will there finally be a real forum (not the re-direct link that 2019 has) on the 2k site for this game (instead of on HB)
    https://forums.2k.com
    NBA2k has a forum there, despite being developed by a 3rd party.
    Personally, until/unless this is more than a re-skinning of The Golf Club, I don't know that I can get all that excited....
    But having said that, I'm hoping this is really successful. These studios need a game to be successful before they'll invest (which seems to be a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy but whatever) so if this strikes out, I think the future of golf gaming is pretty bleak. Not that it's particularly rosy at the moment.
    @pietasterp
    I agree.
    I have to think, that after basically 2 years between releases, and renaming to Pga Tour 2k21...
    They've got to at least include a full career mode and full PGA schedule with all the courses, right?
    Right?
    I mean they can't half-*** the PGA integration again, can they?
    scagwi
    @pietasterp
    I agree.
    I have to think, that after basically 2 years between releases, and renaming to Pga Tour 2k21...
    They've got to at least include a full career mode and full PGA schedule with all the courses, right?
    Right?
    I mean they can't half-*** the PGA integration again, can they?

    "Is this thing on?"
    scagwi
    @pietasterp
    I agree.
    I have to think, that after basically 2 years between releases, and renaming to Pga Tour 2k21...
    They've got to at least include a full career mode and full PGA schedule with all the courses, right?
    Right?
    I mean they can't half-*** the PGA integration again, can they?

    This article might come a skosh closer to answering some of your questions above. It's the first 'trusted source' (Golf.com) that speaks to the question of licensed pros appearing in the game:
    https://golf.com/news/pga-tour-2k21-video-game/

    Hmm...

    "The hook here is in the name: PGA Tour 2K21. It’s an officially licensed product, which surely means Tour players and courses will be integral to the gameplay. We cannot confirm exact details about who or what will all be involved, but it’s very plausible that gamers will be able to swing Bryson DeChambeau’s single-length clubs.."

    "surely" and "very plausible" and "cannot confirm"
    It reads like a purely speculative piece that was written by someone who doesn't even seem to realize that TGC 2019 was already a licensed product with PGA Tour in the name.
    scagwi
    Hmm...

    "The hook here is in the name: PGA Tour 2K21. It’s an officially licensed product, which surely means Tour players and courses will be integral to the gameplay. We cannot confirm exact details about who or what will all be involved, but it’s very plausible that gamers will be able to swing Bryson DeChambeau’s single-length clubs.."

    "surely" and "very plausible" and "cannot confirm"
    It reads like a purely speculative piece that was written by someone who doesn't even seem to realize that TGC 2019 was already a licensed product with PGA Tour in the name.

    Well there's another source I'll have to strip of credibility. I would think a paragon of journalistic integrity of the likes of Golf.com would have some inkling about this if the PGA TOUR is yoked with it though? But yeah, reading it again, my gullibility betrays me once more I reckon :(
    OnlookerDelay
    Well there's another source I'll have to strip of credibility. I would think a paragon of journalistic integrity of the likes of Golf.com would have some inkling about this if the PGA TOUR is yoked with it though? But yeah, reading it again, my gullibility betrays me once more I reckon :(

    Nah - not gullibility man - you're excited! I totally get it.
    I'm remaining very cautiously on the sidelines of too much speculation here, mainly to avoid disappointment.
    As you know - I only play PG these days anyways, but I've always got a close eye on what's out there "just in case", etc.
    I also noticed that they jumped frames as the panning camera was coming back toward the golfer who was about to hit off the 17th tee. I was trying to see if that was a recognizable PGA Tour pro, and they perhaps cut those frames so you couldn't get a close enough look at the face. I may be reading too much into that, but I saw no reason for it to jump suddenly from full body view to close up waist down, when the rest of it had been smoothly tracking back from the green.

    Just to piggy back on what you noticed and speculation, I noticed that when they zoom in on the tee, and the golfer swings, front and center is “The Players” sign right behind. Almost like they’re purposely giving a hint.
    Just some food for thought...
    Great news. I'm excited for this. TGC was solid. Not perfect. In my eyes not as good as the Tiger Woods games. But solid. Hopefully this new game is another progression forward.
    It's been over a year since we've seen a golf thread erupt like this one here in the Operation Sports Golf forum. I didn't think there was enough interest left to fuel it!
    pietasterp
    There is pent-up demand. It's a silent minority, for the most part. ;)

    I've personally been waiting for a new PGA licensed game. Looking forward to hearing more about the game on the 14th.
    MrArlingtonBeach
    What I do wonder about, in relation to potential DLC/micro-transactions in PGA Tour 2K21 is...what would they actually sell?
    The main draw of The Golf Club has been, to me, the loads and loads of user created courses. So it would be dumb if they all of a sudden decided to add DLC real life courses or something, since most of those courses already have a user made version of it.
    And, unless they completely overhaul the player creation system, there has been no golfer attributes or skills to upgrade.
    I guess it would be equipment, clothes, and things like that. Again, this is only if things stay as they had been with TGC. If there are major changes to how 2K21 does things like Career Mode, then that could open the door for more DLC opportunities.

    Taylormade Drivers! Callaway irons! Titleist ProV1s! Nike shirts! Puma caps! The list is endless...and, unfortunately, has the potential to affect gameplay (e.g. the 'stock' driver only goes like 225 yards, so to even play some of the courses competitively, you have to get the Cobra Driver, etc. etc. etc.). Hence, the trepidation by many on here that the "2K-ization" of the game will have it devolve into a microtransaction free-for-all with some golf sprinkled in.
    OnlookerDelay
    Well there's another source I'll have to strip of credibility. I would think a paragon of journalistic integrity of the likes of Golf.com would have some inkling about this if the PGA TOUR is yoked with it though? But yeah, reading it again, my gullibility betrays me once more I reckon :(

    LOL I don't think you have to write off Golf Magazine, I just think that the general sports media doesn't know anything about video games, so anything they say or speculate on is pretty much to be taken with a grain of salt. They also don't necessarily take any news items about video games particularly seriously, and it shows in the lack of detail/care they report on games with. Which is a bit odd in 2020, but golf is sort of a conservative sport by it's nature....
    pietasterp
    Taylormade Drivers! Callaway irons! Titleist ProV1s! Nike shirts! Puma caps! The list is endless...and, unfortunately, has the potential to affect gameplay (e.g. the 'stock' driver only goes like 225 yards, so to even play some of the courses competitively, you have to get the Cobra Driver, etc. etc. etc.). Hence, the trepidation by many on here that the "2K-ization" of the game will have it devolve into a microtransaction free-for-all with some golf sprinkled in.

    But this would be a HUGE change from what TGC has done in the past. In TGC 2019, they only had like 3 or 4 brands of apparel - the only real one that I had interest in was Under Armour - and no licensed equipment. It's not to say it couldn't happen...it would just be a massive change.
    MrArlingtonBeach
    But this would be a HUGE change from what TGC has done in the past. In TGC 2019, they only had like 3 or 4 brands of apparel - the only real one that I had interest in was Under Armour - and no licensed equipment. It's not to say it couldn't happen...it would just be a massive change.

    Assuming there's a way to grind and earn ALL DLC through effort and absolutely nothing (other than perhaps courses) are a forced purchase to get them (or you never can get the edge the paying people will have)...
    ...all good..
    But boy when you open up the micro-transaction flood gates, it becomes really hard as the Devs/Publisher to not squeeze that lemon FULL of juice jars.
    And I am speaking just from a pure logistical standpoint with the equipment/apparel options. I mean, in both TGC and TGC2, there were no licensed items at all. It took until TGC 2019 for that to happen, and it was very limited in its scope. But, since it has been two years since that game came out, I do suppose their arsenal of licensed gear could have increased a bit more.
    And now that I think of it...perhaps 2K's relationship with brands from the NBA 2K series (like Nike, adidas, etc.) will allow for more licensing opportunities and real gear in game.
    MrArlingtonBeach

    And now that I think of it...perhaps 2K's relationship with brands from the NBA 2K series (like Nike, adidas, etc.) will allow for more licensing opportunities and real gear in game.

    That is definitely one aspect of the "hope" for a more "full 2K" experience I think.
    Im cautiously optimistic. TGC/PGA was just ok for me. I jusdt can't get into the game. the visuals are strongly lacking IMO. sound too. lack of players. Commentary. That being said it has some great features, it's just... it feels old when you play it. I don't see much in this teaser video that is going to change that at this point.
    If they still have 3 sets of clubs to use... beginner, pro, expert, or whatever they call it that all have distance caps, I'm out for sure. Nothing bothers me more about the series than that. Just alter the sensitivity and difficulty of hitting full power shots, and on target shots, and speciality shots. Don't cap the distance.
    Thats my two cents anyways.
    I'm cautiously pessimistic. There's nothing I want more than a quality golf title with a PGA license again. That said, I have yet to be impressed with a TGC title, and having owned the last two NBA 2Ks, my faith in 2K has been shaken to the foundation. The career mode was pretty decent, but the online play in both was so miserable, I had to stop playing it, or my controller was going through my TV. Definitely didn't care for the new player builder and loathed the fact that making your player taller so drastically reduced your attributes and their cap. I fear I'm going to be playing TW14 into eternity Haha
    lowpaiddonkey10
    I'll wait for some YouTube videos to get a better look at this game but man they are still using the same weird looking static crowds? :y3:

    I believe the term you're looking for is "zombie people"
    :grin:
    countryboy
    I've personally been waiting for a new PGA licensed game. Looking forward to hearing more about the game on the 14th.

    Glad to see you here, CB! It's nice to see some familiar names from mainstream game threads like the The Show in here.
    ---------------
    What im hoping for from this game is a lot more realistic physics and really working at making sure there arent any exploitable game mechanics in, like the flick swing from TGC2019. Also, a way to somehow get scores down, although thats probably a TGCTours issue and not a game issue.
    A full wishlist from me is things like:
    -A fuller, more lively crowd
    -Golfer attributes (Distance, Workability, Spin, Woods/Irons/Wedges Accuracy, Putting, Bunker Play, Rough Recovery) *NO PAY2WIN MECHANICS*
    -Real equipment w/ different attribute perks (ProV1 has +spin -distance, ProV1X has +distance -spin, etc.)
    -More Clothing Options/Brands (Nike, Adidas, Puma, etc.)
    Of course, priority #1 is getting the actual gameplay at a realistic level complete with accurate drop rules, etc.
    With 2k fully taking the game over, I can see them wanting to make some significant improvements to the graphics and gameplay (other than the zombie crowds).
    I know in order to make an impression, that's how they will have to do it.
    TGC 2019 had lots of room for improvement. The ball felt like a rock, and many sound effects just didnt feel right either.
    That with an addition of real golfers and we may have a nice game on our hands.
    kg54mvp1
    With 2k fully taking the game over

    I keep seeing this being said, but other than the name change here, what makes us think that is true?
    The launch still page very much delineates HB & 2K from each other and clearly lays out that HB is still the developer and 2k is just the distributor...in fact, it would appear that the PC version is being distributed straight from HB over Steam again, since the 2k launch page only mentions consoles.
    I guess I'm just not sure what people are reading or looking at that tells them "2k has taken over" or this might be a "full 2k experience"?
    scagwi
    I keep seeing this being said, but other than the name change here, what makes us think that is true?
    The launch still page very much delineates HB & 2K from each other and clearly lays out that HB is still the developer and 2k is just the distributor...in fact, it would appear that the PC version is being distributed straight from HB over Steam again, since the 2k launch page only mentions consoles.
    I guess I'm just not sure what people are reading or looking at that tells them "2k has taken over" or this might be a "full 2k experience"?

    This is just my opinion, but I think it's the switch to the naming convention "2K21". It seems they are clearly making this a "2K" game by bestowing the "2K" moniker to it. People see that "2K" in the name, and it creates a certain feeling, and certain expectations.
    Since 2K was involved already in the last game, and they still kept "The Golf Club" name, expectations were set based on previous TGC games. Now, with the "2K21" attached, expectations will be different.
    Hmm..
    Hanging it all on the name change makes me pretty skeptical - at least at this point.
    I guess we'll know more in a few days.
    It's interesting that on the HB forum people are saying things like "it's still owned by HB, so no need to worry about 2k micro-transactions ,etc".
    Which is it guys? Full2k and micro transactions are a possible concern, or still an HB game that just got a more 2k name? We can't really argue this both ways.
    A user on HB nailed my initial reaction as he said this:
    "Delighted that a new game is coming. I hope those graphics in the trailer are not indicative of how the game will look though as it's pretty much identical to TGC2019 aesthetically."
    After all this time, I was really hoping the visuals would be far more of a "wow - next gen - all new awesome!" in feeling...
    I'm expecting HB to cut the communication from the community even more than they did the last 2 years, it's all going to be 2K running the show. Haven't we seen anything from HB so far on this? Even from somebody on their own forum?
    scagwi
    It's interesting that on the HB forum people are saying things like "it's still owned by HB, so no need to worry about 2k micro-transactions ,etc".
    Which is it guys? Full2k and micro transactions are a possible concern, or still an HB game that just got a more 2k name? We can't really argue this both ways.

    It's interesting...the opposite is occurring at the forums for TGC Tours. Most there are expecting micro-transactions of some point thanks to 2K's ramped up involvement, but hoping for cosmetic DLC and no pay-to-win items. As you said, next week should provide some clarity.
    bigkev
    I'm expecting HB to cut the communication from the community even more than they did the last 2 years, it's all going to be 2K running the show. Haven't we seen anything from HB so far on this? Even from somebody on their own forum?

    It's a good point here..
    It makes me wonder if we'll actually have any of the critical gameplay, physics, swing changes/details before the thing launches or if we'll have to wait for people to literally buy it and tell us about it.
    I expect next week we'll get lots and lots of "PR" dressed up as "more information". Their goal is to get people excited to buy it, not necessarily tell us comparatively what got changed/upgraded/fixed from TGC 2019.
    It's amazing to see how many on HB's forum are saying things along the lines of "I'll buy it no matter what" (paraphrasing). Really guys? You're that easy to get money out of? lol -- No wonder companies get away with releasing "whatever" and never updating or fixing things for months/years on end...
    To be fair, the "you only have one choice" situation comes into play here. The NHL games have suffered from this most of the last decade since 2k dropped NHL and it's only EA left. If you want a new hockey game, you take whatever EA releases and shove your complaints where the sun don't shine.
    Nothing sucks more than "no competition" (for us, the consumers that is)
    I think the name change to PGA 2K21 is going to result in greater name recognition and more sales. I don't necessarily see it as a "taking over" by 2K. There's no doubt that 2K seems to be more involved in the marketing and promotion of this title, but HB Studios is still doing the coding in Unity and no one is ever going to put NBA 2K20 and PGA 2K21 in the same class, in terms of visuals.
    I suspect we're going to at least see PGA TOUR player names in PGA 2K21, and more than likely a few, licensed PGA TOUR player avatars. The thing that gives me the biggest clue this is happening is the very first "pinned" reply (almost simultaneously) to the official announcement tweet of PGA 2K21 on Twitter was from @THEPLAYERSChamp (official Twitter handle for The Players Championship) and it read "Hey, @PGATOUR2K. You officially have our attention."
    I don't think The Players Championship would be all that keyed up to promote the game in such a manner if they didn't have at least household names to associate with it. I think that 17 second video was edited so as to prevent the viewer from possibly recognizing the golfer on the tee. Just as the reverse panning camera was about to bring the golfer's head in focus, it skips a bunch of frames and shows the waist down to the shoes. I get the sense that they didn't want us to recognize that golfer and spoil the beans about next week's rollout.
    I'm reconciling what Shaun West said in his TSN 1290 podcast interview a month ago, with what was revealed yesterday. In that interview, Shaun said "there's some cool stuff coming up that we're in the works with... with 2K and PGA TOUR on to get some content out there". "Some Content" doesn't equate to "new game" in my mind, but it would fit with the addition of PGA TOUR player likenesses and names, more officially licensed PGA TOUR courses and PGA TOUR events, such as "The Players Championship".
    I'll take whatever gameplay improvements and bug fixes they may throw in there along with it, but I've backed down from expecting anything nearing the scope of the list of 8 improvements I'd like to see, which I posted in the official forum. We may get some game performance improvements as I'm sure HB Studios is using a later revision of Unity that is reportedly made substantial gains.
    Meanwhile, I don't think we're going to get anything more until the 14th. HB Studios has been very strong in maintaining their silence on this for a year; I don't think that's going to change over the next week.
    collins923
    To me, if there are microtransactions in the game, that means there are ways to improve your golfer and to me that is a step in the right direction.

    I always go back to Star Wars Battlefront II. Yeah, you could build up credit and earn Luke Skywalker, but didn’t it take like 2 weeks of continuous gameplay in order to get that much credit? It was either that or pay another $50 to download him?
    I might be off on some of that, but my point is that, as long as you can play the game - for a reasonable amount of time - and collect the same content that might otherwise be for sale, then that’s acceptable, IMO.
    Honest question: have there been any games where your only option for unlocking certain content was to purchase it?
    EDIT: Never mind. Just remembered purchasing new maps for COD and buying courses on Tiger Woods 14.
    OnlookerDelay

    Meanwhile, I don't think we're going to get anything more until the 14th. HB Studios has been very strong in maintaining their silence on this for a year; I don't think that's going to change over the next week.

    The one curveball I wanted to add here is...
    Just because they've been quiet for a year, does not mean that they've been "working on it" for a year.
    (Not saying you said though by the way).
    It's very plausible that the budget got exhausted for TGC2019 (thus the updates stopped) and that was sort of "it" for X amount of time until they could figure out what to do next (if anything), how to pay for it, what licensing could they get and would it be affordable, how to get 2k onboard for what's next, etc.
    What this release looks like might tell us, in reverse, what the history may have been here. For instance, if they release some new courses and some pros and a new mode or two, they likely haven't been working on that for 18 months (since the last 2019 updates) as an example.
    I really believe this niche and franchise skates much closer to the "does this make financial sense to devote company resources to" than we realize. Golf is so not mainstream anymore.. I mean - it barely ever really was. Tiger - the player - was really something else in terms of what he did for the game.
    scagwi
    Sadly, we probably already know the answer here.
    If there's a prominent course they license for sale, I fully expect them to censor out any third party re-creations of that course.
    I'd imagine they might still sneak through and exist if kept quiet and people share their existence with "code names"
    Go play my new "pink flowers GC" (Augusta) or something - lol

    I suppose that not having some of those real life courses might interfere with an acceptable career mode, assuming they have one. I mean, if they don’t license, for example, St. Andrew’s or Pebble Beach, that would limit what your career mode would look like. How would you decide which of the user-created courses to use for that major?
    mwjr
    I suppose that not having some of those real life courses might interfere with an acceptable career mode, assuming they have one. I mean, if they don’t license, for example, St. Andrew’s or Pebble Beach, that would limit what your career mode would look like. How would you decide which of the user-created courses to use for that major?

    Good points - but I think we should prepare ourselves for many missing courses.
    Even EA had huge holes here with Rory (and the TW games other than 2014 really) and they are EA and had all the relationships and budget and negotiating power one could possibly hope for.
    mwfid24
    I'm cautiously pessimistic. There's nothing I want more than a quality golf title with a PGA license again. That said, I have yet to be impressed with a TGC title, and having owned the last two NBA 2Ks, my faith in 2K has been shaken to the foundation. The career mode was pretty decent, but the online play in both was so miserable, I had to stop playing it, or my controller was going through my TV. Definitely didn't care for the new player builder and loathed the fact that making your player taller so drastically reduced your attributes and their cap. I fear I'm going to be playing TW14 into eternity Haha

    I hate to add to the negativity but I am also cautiously pessimistic. The trailer did nothing to indicate that the game is substantively changed in any way, and it wasn't that exciting to me in its most recent iteration. I don't get the sense that 2K is suddenly passionate about releasing the best golf game possible.
    Viewing this through the most cynical lens possible (which usually is, unfortunately, pretty close to reality...), this whole move suggests to me that 2K found a cost-effective way to get into a sport where there is essentially no competition and a large addressable market, and the opportunity required basically no-to-minimal investment on their part (as the game was already built), and some MBA somewhere over at 2K ran a spreadsheet that showed if all they did was re-brand the game and layer on microtransactions, they could be a few million to the good side on this move with basically no commitment of resources whatsoever within a quarter of release. It's as much a financial arbitrage as it is a game. Which sort of describes 2K and gaming in general these days.
    mwjr
    I always go back to Star Wars Battlefront II. Yeah, you could build up credit and earn Luke Skywalker, but didn’t it take like 2 weeks of continuous gameplay in order to get that much credit? It was either that or pay another $50 to download him?
    I might be off on some of that, but my point is that, as long as you can play the game - for a reasonable amount of time $ - and collect the same content that might otherwise be for sale, then that’s acceptable, IMO.
    Honest question: have there been any games where your only option for unlocking certain content was to purchase it?

    I don't know off the top of my head, but there are games where the in-game economy was so incredibly low-yielding through gameplay that practically speaking, there was no other option but to purchase. Star Wars Battlefront 2 was a perfect example of that - in its original release iteration, I think someone calculated it would take like a thousand hours or something insane to unlock even the basic characters like Darth Vader or whatever, so that yes, technically you could unlock them through gameplay, but practically it was not feasible. Sort of like saying, technically you don't have to book a flight if you want to get from LA to London...
    scagwi
    That is definitely one aspect of the "hope" for a more "full 2K" experience I think.

    I can feel the heaviness of the air quotes on this one LOL ;)
    pietasterp
    Viewing this through the most cynical lens possible (which usually is, unfortunately, pretty close to reality...), this whole move suggests to me that 2K found a cost-effective way to get into a sport where there is essentially no competition and a large addressable market, and the opportunity required basically no-to-minimal investment on their part (as the game was already built), and some MBA somewhere over at 2K ran a spreadsheet that showed if all they did was re-brand the game and layer on microtransactions, they could be a few million to the good side on this move with basically no commitment of resources whatsoever within a quarter of release. It's as much a financial arbitrage as it is a game. Which sort of describes 2K and gaming in general these days.

    This might be the best post on here in years.
    Absolutely spot-frickin'-on
    Additionally, I'll bet 2k could secure whatever terms they wanted, as a small shop like HB had given TGC a couple go's already and I think TGC was on the ropes as a franchise if not for distribution agreements to try to pump things out on as many vectors as possible, first from Maximum Games and now 2k.
    scagwi
    Good points - but I think we should prepare ourselves for many missing courses.

    Agreed. And I confess to spending $100 for all of the DLC courses in TW14. I can’t say that I wouldn’t do it again.
    mwjr
    Agreed. And I confess to spending $100 for all of the DLC courses in TW14. I can’t say that I wouldn’t do it again.

    lol - right there with ya'!
    Still got 'em all installed on my PS3 TW14 installed right next to me. :cheers444
    mwjr
    Agreed. And I confess to spending $100 for all of the DLC courses in TW14. I can’t say that I wouldn’t do it again.

    scagwi
    lol - right there with ya'!
    Still got 'em all installed on my PS3 TW14 installed right next to me. :cheers444

    Those virtual courses you bought plus $5 will get you a tall latte at Starbucks. Or it would have, if any of them were open.... :D
    pietasterp
    Those virtual courses you bought plus $5 will get you a tall latte at Starbucks. Or it would have, if any of them were open.... :D

    Hey now! I still love to fire up TW14 from time to time. haha
    Truly, the career mode and all the content packaged up in one release is something we may never see again. I really don't regret the purchase at this point.
    scagwi
    Hey now! I still love to fire up TW14 from time to time. haha
    Truly, the career mode and all the content packaged up in one release is something we may never see again. I really don't regret the purchase at this point.

    No, you guys did the right thing. Who knew that was basically the last 'triple-A' level fully-featured golf game that would ever be released?
    Dark times in the sports gaming world indeed...
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/video-games-are-having-a-moment-but-sports-games-are-in-a-rut/
    mwfid24
    I fear I'm going to be playing TW14 into eternity Haha

    Yeah same here... and the sad thing, I don't even have half the courses. I'm probably close to my 25th golfers going thru an entire career. I'm even switching to a LPGA career from time to time building a girl golfer. That's how sad the golf games have been for career mode since 2013.
    scagwi
    lol - right there with ya'!
    Still got 'em all installed on my PS3 TW14 installed right next to me. :cheers444

    Lol, I'm going to find out where you live. :p
    I'm excited about the name change. Although I don't know how 2k21 will turn out, if you look at the history of 2k they have published at least one really good game in every sport. They all haven't ended well but I'm optimistic we will get at least one good installment in the future.
    Crazy Packers Fan
    TPC Sawgrass doesn't sell me on this game. You have to have Augusta if you're going to convince me. Until a golf game gets Augusta and the Masters, I'll still be playing TW14.

    The best rendition of Augusta National I've ever seen in any golf game is already in TGC 2019. It had to be retitled as "Firethorn National" to avoid being censored by HB Studios. Unfortunately, you can't put it in PGA Career mode (or so I'm told). I love playing Firethorn National in Society tournaments though; it hasn't been banned there and it gets a lot of play.
    I realize though that this is not the answer you're looking for, but I did want to make sure everyone is aware of this stunning version of Augusta National we have in this game.
    OnlookerDelay
    The best rendition of Augusta National I've ever seen in any golf game is already in TGC 2019. It had to be retitled as "Firethorn National" to avoid being censored by HB Studios. Unfortunately, you can't put it in PGA Career mode (or so I'm told). I love playing Firethorn National in Society tournaments though; it hasn't been banned there and it gets a lot of play.

    You are correct...The TGC 2019 PGA Tour career mode schedule cannot be edited, so you can't add Firethorn National to your season, and edit the name of the tournament to be "The Masters". You can do this in a Society, but to get a realistic PGA Tour season Society set up takes a long time.
    And I also agree - Firethorn National is amazing, and looks just like Augusta. But I get where the previous poster is coming from. Unless it says "Augusta National Golf Club" and your get The Masters broadcast package and graphics, and even the tune "Augusta" on piano playing between holes, it just feels like somethings are missing that bring out the authenticity.
    MrArlingtonBeach

    And I also agree - Firethorn National is amazing, and looks just like Augusta. But I get where the previous poster is coming from. Unless it says "Augusta National Golf Club" and your get The Masters broadcast package and graphics, and even the tune "Augusta" on piano playing between holes, it just feels like somethings are missing that bring out the authenticity.

    +1. We were spoiled, and we want it back. :cheers444
    At some point, the PGA Tour is going to have to realize it's the 21st century and growing the game also includes reaching out to non-traditional media like video games (which, I'm not even sure qualifies as "non-traditional" in the year 2020). NFL football remains popular at least in part because of video games and a new generation of fans growing up with them. I have no idea what percentage of people get introduced to NFL football via the Madden game, but I'll bet among people under the age of 20, it's not insignificant.
    I'm certainly not saying golf can ever get to NFL football levels of popularity, but I feel like they should at least try to have a presence in such a significant media outlet as videogames are. That will require coordination with the tour, the players, and the courses, which would require leadership/vision to convince everyone that this is important.
    But it's quite possible I'm completely wrong, and they've already done the analysis and figured there isn't enough marketshare to make all of the necessary coordination effort worth it. Although looking at the tee times of all the local courses (or complete lack thereof) suggests to me there's pretty good demand for the game.
    Ronoko
    Golf will probably one of the first major sports to get going again. So that can only help with bringing new fans into the sport.

    I am a little skeptical that "getting going again" and being the only thing on TV is suddenly going to make a lot more people interested in golf.
    My spouse was INTO the Tiger Woods era. It was must see TV on a Sunday.
    She's not into golf though and it being the only sport on TV just means she's going to "still not watch it" and go for a hike or a run or something -- as one example anyhow. :cheers444
    You should check out the ratings they are getting with baseball in South Korea and Taiwan right now. Granted, it's hard to get accurate numbers when many are watching it on various live streams though.
    There's tons of general sports fans who prefer to watch major team sports instead when a golf tournament is on, but would definitely watch the sport more faithfully otherwise. I admit I am one of those at times. *
    Ronoko
    You should check out the ratings they are getting with baseball in South Korea and Taiwan right now. Granted, it's hard to get accurate numbers when many are watching it on various live streams though.
    There's tons of general sports fans who prefer to watch major team sports instead when a golf tournament is on, but would definitely watch the sport more faithfully otherwise. I admit I am one of those at times. *

    I fully admit we are probably not that level of general sports fan.
    Candidly - We simply don't watch sports we don't have interests in and if that's all that's on - we do something else (like go outside - play real sports - gaming - on and on).
    scagwi
    lol - right there with ya'!
    Still got 'em all installed on my PS3 TW14 installed right next to me. :cheers444

    Bought a PS4 back in March. Had been on the fence for a while, but as soon as all of this stay-at-home stuff hit, I knew I'd need a distraction while my kids were beating the hell out of each other over who would get to play the Switch next. Ordered The Show 20, TGC19, and Madden 20.
    Two weeks ago, I plugged the PS3 back in, and I've been playing TW14 and The Show 12 for these past 2 weeks.
    Kind of regret getting the PS4 now. Thinking I should've waited for the PS5.
    pietasterp
    At some point, the PGA Tour is going to have to realize it's the 21st century and growing the game also includes reaching out to non-traditional media like video games (which, I'm not even sure qualifies as "non-traditional" in the year 2020).

    One thing that gives me hope is that the golf club has been promoting Carlos Ortiz vs Matthew Fitzpatrick playing the game. Makes you think that the players and involved in the new version and that they are working to drum up interest in it now.
    collins923
    One thing that gives me hope is that the golf club has been promoting Carlos Ortiz vs Matthew Fitzpatrick playing the game. Makes you think that the players and involved in the new version and that they are working to drum up interest in it now.

    I never heard of those 2 dudes, and I'm watching some golf tournaments on TV from time to time. For just about anybody who is not hardcore, far from the casuals buying golf games, they would have heard more of jabronis like the Brooklyn Brawler and Barry Horowitz. We're about 50 lights years from Tiger with those 2 nobody.
    bigkev
    I never heard of those 2 dudes

    Me either.
    In fact you could have fooled me and literally made those names up out of thin air and I wouldn't have known.
    People like that don't move the needle one single tick
    Been offline a couple of days and just caught up with all this.
    Unfortunately the name change and anything else doesn't excite me one bit. The details, or certain details, on the 14th might get me up but I just don't have the confidence that this isn't a marketing move.
    I only have TGC2 but I just got bored playing rounds that meant nothing and whatever the season/career mode in TGC games isn't what I'm after (not interested in TGC Tours either). I'm a TW guy and love the full career/season mode so if this is going to get any look in from me, it has to include that and be half decent at it.
    So now we wait until the 14th.
    mwjr
    Bought a PS4 back in March. Had been on the fence for a while, but as soon as all of this stay-at-home stuff hit, I knew I'd need a distraction while my kids were beating the hell out of each other over who would get to play the Switch next. Ordered The Show 20, TGC19, and Madden 20.
    Two weeks ago, I plugged the PS3 back in, and I've been playing TW14 and The Show 12 for these past 2 weeks.
    Kind of regret getting the PS4 now. Thinking I should've waited for the PS5.

    The Show 12 is my favorite iteration of the game.
    Also for those complaining about how 2K didn't do anything for TGC2109 - don't forget that 2K bought the rights less than a week before the game came out. There was nothing to tweak at that point. Just needed to be there before HB started on the next rendition.
    TGC2019 was done when the deal with 2K was finalized, the only thing 2K did was to publish the hard copies months later. I'm sure 2K is in to polish this new game, it should be interesting.
    Crazy Packers Fan
    TPC Sawgrass doesn't sell me on this game. You have to have Augusta if you're going to convince me. Until a golf game gets Augusta and the Masters, I'll still be playing TW14.

    It's in TGC19. Called Firethorn National. Just as good.
    This definitely has me a little more hyped. I have loved all 3 TGC games. It's crazy to me that people still hadn't heard of TGC yet, but putting 2K in the name gets them to notice.
    I'd imagine and hope the mechanics and physics will be very similar to TGC, which is great news. I just hope 2K gets to add their great work of presentation like in NBA. Sawgrass doesn't really do much for me in the trailer, since it was in TGC19 anyways. But still excited.
    For me there's really only a few things I'd want in to make it perfect. I wouldn't imagine the PGA would allow their name on it if there wasn't more focus on the PGA. So I expect there to be considerably more PGA courses beyond the TPC tracks. I honestly doubt real players are in the game, and don't care if they are playable. Just would love to see their names in career mode.
    The big thing for me besides a more filled out PGA schedule with real courses would be an editable schedule so you can add custom courses in. I highly doubt 2K21 will have Augusta, that just seems like a tall task to get that license. But if I could put Firethorn National on the schedule, that works for me too. Allow that editing.
    I'd love to see more licensing in general. We saw Under Armour in the trailer. Give us more brands of clothing, and as a huge golf nerd, I'd love to see licensed equipment, but that doesn't seem like something I'd expect.
    BDKiiing
    I'd imagine and hope the mechanics and physics will be very similar to TGC, which is great news.

    That's great news?
    :y13:
    I really want them to re-think the swing completely and totally de-couple from the very limiting concept of everything being based around 100% power swings.
    Also, there are a lot of physics oddities and shot situations that need work to create much more realistic , as it relates to real world, shot outcomes.
    scagwi
    That's great news?
    :y13:
    I really want them to re-think the swing completely and totally de-couple from the very limiting concept of everything being based around 100% power swings.
    Also, there are a lot of physics oddities and shot situations that need work to create much more real world shot outcomes.

    We'll see. Late gen game is not something I would have released. Might just be a trial balloon to see if they even bother on next gen hardware. I mean we are so close to the new release hardware this just makes no sense to me.
    BDKiiing
    I wouldn't imagine the PGA would allow their name on it if there wasn't more focus on the PGA. So I expect there to be considerably more PGA courses beyond the TPC tracks. I honestly doubt real players are in the game, and don't care if they are playable. Just would love to see their names in career mode.

    This is the interesting part of TGC vs. other golf games (like Tiger Woods, etc.) - with the course creator, there are already thousands of courses ready to play, lots of them made by very talented designers, as well as a wide range of real-life recreations. And now that creators can even use LiDAR data, the created courses are just as accurate as any developer can make them.
    But I do agree with you, that they probably will add in more officially licensed courses. But if the course creator remains intact and the amazing user designers can do their thing, that's all I need to know. Unlike the TW series, where the courses in the game were a huge selling point, TGC can market the course creation tool and let people make the content like they have been.
    As for players/player names - YES, please include at least the names of real pros when playing a Career Mode. Having to edit 300+ names to get a "real" PGA Tour feel is not great.
    scagwi
    That's great news?
    :y13:
    I really want them to re-think the swing completely and totally de-couple from the very limiting concept of everything being based around 100% power swings.
    Also, there are a lot of physics oddities and shot situations that need work to create much more real world shot outcomes.

    There's some physics that need a little refining. But as far as the swing goes, in my opinion it's the most realistic to how actual golf is, in any golf game ever.
    BDKiiing
    There's some physics that need a little refining. But as far as the swing goes, in my opinion it's the most realistic to how actual golf is, in any golf game ever.

    @Onlookerdelay: What say you? :wave:
    lowpaiddonkey10
    We'll see. Late gen game is not something I would have released. Might just be a trial balloon to see if they even bother on next gen hardware. I mean we are so close to the new release hardware this just makes no sense to me.

    Yeah, I really agree that this seems so odd to release given next-gen is literally a few more months away.
    I sure hope those "exact same as 2019" (basically) visuals were just a head fake and there is a massive surprise coming.
    Heading into next-gen game graphics, the 'ol TGC2019 look and all the lingering flaws really don't do much for those not already in the TGC world.
    Yeah, that swing need major changes. Firstly, wipe that stupid power fade coming out of nowhere. And the loft box is something that belongs in a golf game 10 years ago.
    bigkev
    Yeah, that swing need major changes. Firstly, wipe that stupid power fade coming out of nowhere. And the loft box is something that belongs in a golf game 10 years ago.

    My thoughts exactly
    The swing animations also look really awkward and wonky. There is essentially only 1 animation that really matters in a golf game, and it's the swing. It's got to be naturalistic and buttery-smooth. One of the great pleasures of golf broadcasts is seeing pros swing a club - I mean, Fred Couples' golf swing is basically a work of art. It's hard for me to get into a golf game where the player swings look like Iron Byron, or worse, Bryson DeChambeau….(golf joke!)
    bigkev
    Yeah, that swing need major changes. Firstly, wipe that stupid power fade coming out of nowhere. And the loft box is something that belongs in a golf game 10 years ago.

    scagwi
    @Onlookerdelay: What say you? :wave:

    What a fortuitous time for me to get this opportunity. I just responded to similar observation in the XBox One section of the official TGC 2019 forum, so I'll just cut and paste they reply here... I changed Dave's name to "bigkev" here, but let me preface it by adding that this swing mechanic being used in TGC 2019 does add another dimension to the swing management, making push hooks and pull slices possible, but I think they've got the input variables crossed up in a key aspect, which I hopefully explain below:
    bigkev, do you play golf in real life? I ask because I want to know if the mechanics of this swing gel with your golf instincts? I can't wrap my senses around the fact that my tempo determines whether I hook or slice, with a slight effect on carry distance, while the swing path only affects whether I pull or push. In real life, it feels just about the opposite. I set up my swing path in my stance IRL to produce a hook or a slice, yet in the game it's only going to pull or push.
    I understand why they did it the way they did because it makes it more difficult to manage, but when I see the looks on these PGA TOUR players faces as their playing this game in these challenge matches set up by GOLFTV, and can see that they're perplexed by the counter-intuitive results of the shot. I think it's because they're not understanding how the swing interface is producing it.
    I'd like to see the tempo affect push and pull, with greater carry for a pull (fast) and lesser carry for a push (slow) downswing; and hook and slice be determined by the swing path. Yes, those who play the game with devices and software that deactivates axis deviations are going to hit everything straight, but hopefully, the game can detect when that's happening. I think you have to build the game for those who are going to play it sportingly, not try to defend against the cheaters.
    bigkev
    Yeah, that swing need major changes. Firstly, wipe that stupid power fade coming out of nowhere. And the loft box is something that belongs in a golf game 10 years ago.

    We're getting closer to a shared vision here... the loft box is overdone to crutch levels and the power fade is a totally counter-intuitive terrestrial physics abomination!
    scagwi
    Yeah, I really agree that this seems so odd to release given next-gen is literally a few more months away.

    I don't think they're banking on the next-gen only to bankroll this project. They've got to have the current gen's installed base to make it solvent. Hopefully, they can offer an upgrade to PS5 and XBox Series X when they arrive, even if it's a premium DLC. I'd settle for an option to run the XBox One X version in 1080p @60 FPS. That's more important to the feel needed in a golf game than 4K graphics. The Series X should run it at 4K/60 FPS, no questions asked.
    I sure hope those "exact same as 2019" (basically) visuals were just a head fake and there is a massive surprise coming.

    I'm now pretty dang sure those were the graphics of 2K21. I played a tournament round at Sawgrass in 2019 and took some screens of the surroundings on the 17th. There's considerably more detail, banners, objects, stands, and a difference in textures in what we see in the short video clip. It looks better in 2K21, but not the "next game" or "next gen" look many might be expecting.
    Heading into next-gen game graphics, the 'ol TGC2019 look and all the lingering flaws really don't do much for those not already in the TGC world.

    They're staying with the course DNA model. We're not going to see anything earth shattering with that engine. They've reached the limit of what they can do without requiring local storage of assets on a platform's hard drive. That's they way I see it anyway.
    I'm working on getting some comparison screens up Sawgrass 17 up and solicit some opinions from you guys. I'm out of my lane with this kind of work though, so it will take me a while to produce a proper post...
    Actual swing mechanics aside, I have never liked it because the tempo is completely off. I want to drive the ball and generate that club head speed like an actual pro. The generic swing animation is the same for most shots and would probably be an 80 mph mark (if that, lol).
    OnlookerDelay
    bigkev, do you play golf in real life? I ask because I want to know if the mechanics of this swing gel with your golf instincts? I can't wrap my senses around the fact that my tempo determines whether I hook or slice, with a slight effect on carry distance, while the swing path only affects whether I pull or push. In real life, it feels just about the opposite. I set up my swing path in my stance IRL to produce a hook or a slice, yet in the game it's only going to pull or push.

    I've been playing for over 40 years. When I tried to hit it too easy, I end up with a slow downswing not properly getting my tempo back to the front foot. The club face is open, I block the shot and it's ending up short to the left as I'm a lefty. With this game, it's 25 yards past the green out of bound. Stupid!
    They did explain their swing mechanic, it just doesn't make sense to me. You see slow, you don't expect to go way over your target out of bound or in the drink.
    bigkev
    I've been playing for over 40 years. When I tried to hit it too easy, I end up with a slow downswing not properly getting my tempo back to the front foot. The club face is open, I block the shot and it's ending up short to the left as I'm a lefty. With this game, it's 25 yards past the green out of bound. Stupid!
    They did explain their swing mechanic, it just doesn't make sense to me. You see slow, you don't expect to go way over your target out of bound or in the drink.

    Same. Im a righty, and if I overswing and really try to bomb it, the clubface can never catch up and its always a slice... In the game, if I have a fast downswing its a hook. Its backwards.
    statum71
    If it’s has real players I’m in.*
    That’s what keeps me away from The Golf Club.*

    It shouldn’t... its a fantastic game. I think its free this month to play as well.
    Crazy Packers Fan
    TPC Sawgrass doesn't sell me on this game. You have to have Augusta if you're going to convince me. Until a golf game gets Augusta and the Masters, I'll still be playing TW14.

    What I’m hoping for is the ability to take user created courses into PGA season mode... lining up the courses to the tour schedule would be incredible.
    donkey33
    Actual swing mechanics aside, I have never liked it because the tempo is completely off. I want to drive the ball and generate that club head speed like an actual pro. The generic swing animation is the same for most shots and would probably be an 80 mph mark (if that, lol).

    It does feel like what results in a "perfect/perfect" tempo comes from a swing that feels slow to me. I know what a good swing feels like (in most cases) in this game though, even before I see the report on the feedback meter, so I strive for that feel.
    If you ever had the chance to play Links 2004 on the original XBox, you probably experienced the same thing. The swing in that game was tempo/rhythm based and the swing that produced the most clubhead speed was dependent on how closely you were able to match it. It didn't punish you with a hook or a slice for a fast or slow downswing tempo, however, and IMO, remains the best analog stick swing ever made.
    Years back one of the devs at HB Studios was asking me about it and wanted to try it... he nor anyone else at HB Studios had an original XBox, nor knew anyone who did!?
    bigkev
    I've been playing for over 40 years. When I tried to hit it too easy, I end up with a slow downswing not properly getting my tempo back to the front foot. The club face is open, I block the shot and it's ending up short to the left as I'm a lefty. With this game, it's 25 yards past the green out of bound. Stupid!
    They did explain their swing mechanic, it just doesn't make sense to me. You see slow, you don't expect to go way over your target out of bound or in the drink.

    Okay, so you wrestle with the counter-intuitive nature of this as well. As golfers, we can't get that out of our minds... it's our instincts at work. Yeah, HB Studios has explained how the mechanic works and I understand what it's looking for, but that doesn't make it any easier to put my brains in a bowl and play the game with this contrary to physics model.
    itsmb8
    Same. Im a righty, and if I overswing and really try to bomb it, the clubface can never catch up and its always a slice... In the game, if I have a fast downswing its a hook. Its backwards.

    I'm a righty and when get a fast downswing I usually "pull" the ball because my hips have turned prematurely. I might wind up getting a little more distance, but it's more because of ball velocity. My trajectory will be a bit lower with a pull so the net result is the carry winds up being about the same. I've never had a slow downswing that resulted in more carry!?
    OnlookerDelay
    It does feel like what results in a "perfect/perfect" tempo comes from a swing that feels slow to me. I know what a good swing feels like (in most cases) in this game though, even before I see the report on the feedback meter, so I strive for that feel.
    If you ever had the chance to play Links 2004 on the original XBox, you probably experienced the same thing. The swing in that game was tempo/rhythm based and the swing that produced the most clubhead speed was dependent on how closely you were able to match it. It didn't punish you with a hook or a slice for a fast or slow downswing tempo, however, and IMO, remains the best analog stick swing ever made.
    Years back one of the devs at HB Studios was asking me about it and wanted to try it... he nor anyone else at HB Studios had an original XBox, nor knew anyone who did!?

    I'm glad you brought up Links 2004 for the original Xbox because it's such a forgotten gem. In my opinion, that is the best console golf game ever released. Other than some overly-dramatic camera angles (and lack of a golfer perspective camera), it was the best playing game of golf since Links on PC and maybe PGA Tour Gold. I would agree that the game had the best implementation of a console analog swing mechanic that has been made.
    I'm stunned that no one had an original Xbox or had played the game...what are they teaching these kids these days?
    OnlookerDelay
    I'm a righty and when get a fast downswing I usually "pull" the ball because my hips have turned prematurely. I might wind up getting a little more distance, but it's more because of ball velocity. My trajectory will be a bit lower with a pull so the net result is the carry winds up being about the same. I've never had a slow downswing that resulted in more carry!?

    There are times where I hit it further with a slower downswing in real life, but it mostly comes from the fact that it's (slightly) more likely that I'll hit the sweet spot dead-on if I slow down my downswing. Slowing down can help on occasion, but just as often as helping, it throws off the timing of everything else I'm doing with my swing and causes new/different problems. After all, if "slow down your swing" worked all the time, every golf instructor in the world would be out of business....
    Sadly I picked up Links 2004 for the XBox used long after the additional courses were available but I do like some of the camera angles. Still play from time to time on my 360.
    they really have to make this game easier for the casual sports gamer.  I liked how EA Tiger games would give you the highlight when you swung on how far you would need to pull back to make a good swing.  
    hyacinth1
    they really have to make this game easier for the casual sports gamer.* I liked how EA Tiger games would give you the highlight when you swung on how far you would need to pull back to make a good swing.**

    100% disagree. its already too easy
    He did say he was a casual sports gamer... this game is too hard for those guys. Just have to look at those pros struggling to understand the tempo golf swing in those last videos. And the game will never be hard enough for us who have played golf games for 20+ years because it's our passion. That's where level of difficulty comes in. We don't need swing meter, we understand perfectly the golf swing. Casual gamer don't.
    At the end of the day... if the golf genre is going to survive, it will need those casual sports gamer to buy the game. If there are too few sales and not enough of a return to investment, there won't be many golf games being made in the future, if any.
    bigkev
    Just have to look at those pros struggling to understand the tempo golf swing in those last videos.

    I'd argue that's a problem with the TGC swing implementation more than the overall difficulty of the game.
    If the PGA Tour video game golf swing doesn't make sense to actual PGA Tour golfers....
    ...That is a problem.
    bigkev
    At the end of the day... if the golf genre is going to survive, it will need those casual sports gamer to buy the game.

    Absolutely spot on.
    bigkev
    He did say he was a casual sports gamer... this game is too hard for those guys. Just have to look at those pros struggling to understand the tempo golf swing in those last videos.

    I don't know whether or not any of the pros who've played TGC 2019 in these challenge matches has read or gone through the tutorial on how the swing mechanic works. It certainly looks like they haven't, based on their facial expressions when they think they've executed a swing that should result in a draw, only to see it turn into a push/power fade!? I don't think they really know how to process the data in the feedback meter to explain it because it's being used in an otherworldly physics model.
    And the game will never be hard enough for us who have played golf games for 20+ years because it's our passion. That's where level of difficulty comes in. We don't need swing meter, we understand perfectly the golf swing. Casual gamer don't.

    I've played golf games for 38 years now and I understand the nuances of this game, even though some of them are counter-intuitive. Even for my average thumbstick skills, I think the game is too easy, but it's not as easy to me now as it was 18 months ago. I'm steadily getting worse at the game as time goes on, but I still occasionally produce a 61 out of the blue. I'm sort of enjoying the fact that the scoring is coming harder for me now, but part of it is due to my inability to regulate tempo. I'm not always sure that tempo regulation difficulty is all on me though, and I'm hearing from others who are more and more saying the same.
    We do need a default mode that suits the casual gamer for this game. As long as the more skilled, elite players have a mode to which they can opt (whether it's difficulty level or clubs set based) where they feel challenged, both camps can be accommodated. I still think this swing mechanic in which tempo is the determining factor in hook or slice is throwing newcomers to this game off and preventing a good share of them from embracing the game.
    scagwi
    I'm not a member at HB anymore, but I can imagine this makes a few old likely characters wet their pants with unjustified hype right now - lol
    "GO HB!"
    "We never doubted you!"
    "Even though you dumped updates 18 months ago for 2019, our wallets are ready!"
    "Take my money (for another version of the same game)!"

    I think I heard birds chirping my name! :59:
    johneric8
    I think I heard birds chirping my name! :59:

    LMAO!
    There is he!!
    JE! Missed ya' brotha' haha
    You must be pumped, yeah?
    You called it on the upcoming release. Nicely done.
    Credit where it's due
    Really hope there is a graphic upgrade on this version or why bother?
    There are so many minor problems with the past two versions hope they at least fixed them. Still wondering how long they keep the servers up for the past two games.
    scagwi
    LMAO!
    There is he!!
    JE! Missed ya' brotha' haha
    You must be pumped, yeah?
    You called it on the upcoming release. Nicely done.
    Credit where it's due

    JE, I (I'm jcauthen04 from the official TGC forum, BTW) fessed up to meeting the description Scagwi painted before you did here, but it's nice to have some company. You made the call on the new game when I thought you were putting your neck on the block... don't back down from taking the credit you deserve! You've demonstrated that you do have a reliable lark at HB Studios, and with your profession I can see why that might be the case.
    Don't make a stranger of yourself around here. This is a good forum to get some balanced discussion on all golf games.
    OnlookerDelay

    JE
    Don't make a stranger of yourself around here. This is a good forum to get some balanced discussion on all golf games.

    I agree, particularly since some of us (points at self) are long ago banned at HB for not being "pro TGC enough" - among other reasons I'm sure they'd drag out as justification (none of it fair or deserving of a ban IMO).
    Nice job stifling conversation from the HB Politburo Comrades
    scagwi
    I agree, particularly since some of us (points at self) are long ago banned at HB for not being "pro TGC enough" - among other reasons I'm sure they'd drag out as justification (none of it fair or deserving of a ban IMO).
    Nice job stifling conversation from the HB Politburo Comrades

    Presumably the nature of your commentary over there was similar to what it is here at OS, in which case it seems that banning you from their forums is absolutely ridiculous. I guess from their perspective, no dissenting opinions are tolerated...which makes it sort of hard to ever improve your product.
    I mean, who would bother to post over at the HB Studios website unless they were passionate about golf?
    @pietasterp
    You basically hit it on the head. I think I was just in an early wave of bans that might not even happen if it were now.
    From what I observe over there lately, there is every bit as much dissenting opinion and frustration with the same things I was frustrated with.
    (Swing issues, physics issues, graphical oddities, multiplayer mess, etc)
    It's their pool party and of course they get to decide who attends --- I personally just don't see the production value in silencing things rather than arguing the points constructively pro/con and getting deeper into the heart of issues.
    They have PGA Tour golfers who are mystified by the TGC swing and the shot outcomes it produces.
    Are they going to ban them? lol :laugh:
    Hey HB - how about you fix the swing instead of worrying about criticisms of it?
    scagwi
    I think I was just in an early wave of bans that might not even happen if it were now.

    Wasn't Alan Bunker still there when you were banned? When he reset the TGC 2019 forum, he also banned some people that I recall. He went radio silent after he reset the forum, and I never heard a peep from him again, even though I could see that he was still logged into to forum quite often. Something big happened with him right at launch, something that caused him to get a serious case of the red a$$. He went from an approachable, down to earth guy to total shutdown... seemingly overnight.
    He's be replaced by James Seaboyer since last November, but I haven't heard or read a word out of him since he was announced as CEO.
    I don't recall your saying anything in the forum that would have been a banning offense. Clearly you weren't a fan of the game and you gave your reasons why, but you offered suggestions as to what you think would make the game better. Maybe they didn't take your criticism as being constructive, or maybe they just didn't want to read any criticism at that time... I don't know. If it was Alan who was behind your banning, they might reconsider reinstating your there now, if you're even interested but I get the sense you really aren't.
    Glad to hear it's not dead. I hope they...
    1. Address some of the oddities w/ the swing mech as others have pointed out.
    2. Allow the player to move their position on the tee.
    3. Improve the animations such that they look like first class pro swings like Rory had. Don't care if there are PGA names there, just bump up the animation quality.
    4. Graphically it's already very decent--far more so than touted Rory was.
    5. Add more weather capabilities, as well as be able to set up rough conditions as well as the other conditions currently configurable.
    6. Improve the gallery animations.
    7. Greater player difficulty options--something to kill those perfect swings many at TGCTours turn in.
    8. Decouple the animation from using the putting elevation marker to assess slope when you don't use the grid and we hate what the grid does to the visuals so we don't use it. Or some other better tool to assess putt line w/o a grid. TW2004 let you move the cursor by itself w/o the animation so you could quickly assess elevation change. I'd like to see finer resolution than full 1 inch divisions.
    So much of this leaves the entire core intact and that's fine, it needs mostly fine tuned. It's no accident why TGCTours has done as well as it has, even though those people shoot ridiculous scores that I only rarely shoot when I am at my very best.
    I love TGC2019, play an average of five 18 holes rounds a week w/ another player. Since there really is no competition and I have hoped they would mainly work towards making it a golfer's sim, versus an entertainment platform for pretend PGA players etc.
    OnlookerDelay
    Wasn't Alan Bunker still there when you were banned? When he reset the TGC 2019 forum, he also banned some people that I recall. He went radio silent after he reset the forum, and I never heard a peep from him again, even though I could see that he was still logged into to forum quite often.

    Yeah, that sounds about right JC..
    Honestly, between this forum and others, I'm good on comms and places to chat about this sort of stuff for now.
    If 2k ever does something drastic enough to get me interested in buying their golf offering in the future, I'll consider reaching out re: reinstatement, but at this point it's not really of interest anyhow.
    I enjoy chatting about it here where it's a more neutral space anyways.
    ncp10

    4. Graphically it's already very decent--far more so than touted Rory was.

    'eh - agree to disagree a bit on this..
    The devil is in the details.
    TGC can look really good in places, but if you compared things like "in/around the bunkers" - Rory just walks all over TGC.
    We could have fun doing comparisons of lots of scenarios actually.
    The Frostbite lighting is dramatically better than TGC's - in my opinion.
    scagwi
    Probably in the game I would assume?
    Should be fun to see how many real pros are in there (if that's the case).
    I have to admit - if they didn't fix all the gameplay related stuff, just "adding content" doesn't do anything for me personally -- though I'm sure existing TGC2019 fans will enjoy it, so that's nice.

    I would also assume it means he's in the game, too...and also agree with the gameplay related fixes being needed.
    I have been playing in TGC Tours again since I picked up TGC 2019 a few weeks back. I graduated from Q School into CC-C, and have been demoted each week and am down to CC-F - with another demotion likely this week. I was able to compete in the higher Challenge Circuits of TGC Tours when it was played with TGC2...2019 has really been a struggle for me.
    Meanwhile, the leaders of the tournaments are shooting 57s, 58s, 59s each round...
    MrArlingtonBeach
    I don't know what to read into this, but...
    https://twitter.com/matthew_wolff5/status/1260297070826618884

    That answers the feature pro question in the affirmative. I hope Matthew hasn't waded into NDA violation land by tweeting this!? This will be big news for a lot of fans of golf games though. They like having their pros in the game for challenge matches and career mode. Hopefully there will be some more recognizable names among the featured pros. I don't know how many people are going to be storming the market for a game featuring Matthew Wolff.
    Good find though Steven; that answers a big question!
    lowpaiddonkey10
    Way to use the PGA name huh? :zzz:

    It's not so much newsworthy because it's the relatively unknown, Matthew Wolff, but because it indicates that there will likely be other featured PGA TOUR players in the game, some of whom will undoubtedly be more familiar to the public. That's already a feature I didn't give much of a chance of being in the game becoming a reality. Besides, Matthew Wolff may become much more of a name after he gets four hours of camera time during this weekend's "TaylorMade Driving Relief 2020" team skins match on NBC, in which he and Ricky Fowler will take on Rory McIlroy and Dustin Johnson. You may not be aware of this, but Matthew Wolf won the 3M Championship last year at the age of 20, in only his fourth PGA TOUR start.
    I think 2K and HB Studios may be trying to cash in early on someone who looks to be a rising star. Getting four hours of air time on Sunday to a lockdown starved sports audience is going to net Matthew some recognition, which will no doubt carry over to making the 2K21 brand have a little more cachet.
    While not the biggest name, Wolff is a SOLID player and a real up and coming star on Tour.
    For anyone who doesnt know, he's the guy who has the little hitch to get his backswing started.
    itsmb8
    While not the biggest name, Wolff is a SOLID player and a real up and coming star on Tour.
    For anyone who doesnt know, he's the guy who has the little hitch to get his backswing started.

    Yeah, and he's playing on that when he asks that question on Twitter, he just didn't properly use emoticons enough to fully express that. Some of his buds and fans obviously are aware of his hitch, including the one that put the Charles Barkley swinging a club gif in there that might show how Matthew's swing would look in the game. :)
    lowpaiddonkey10
    Let's just hope this isn't just 2019.5.

    As sad as I am to admit this, as hungry as I am for ANYTHING new in the golf gaming world right now, 2019.5 would probably be enough to appease me :(
    This won't surprise anyone here...but I am gonna need some kind of robust single player career mode in 2K21 to even get me interested. After revisiting the older Tiger Woods games recently and experiencing their career modes all over again, it's pretty sad to see where single player experience is today compared to what it was back in 2013 on TW14. And I am quickly losing interest in TGC Tours, because I will apparently never be able to compete with anyone on there.
    Even Rory McIlroy PGA Tour had 3 of the 4 officially licensed majors, real gear, a wider selection of actual PGA events, etc. To see both TGC 2019 and 2K21 have the PGA Tour branding, but lack that same level of realism and immersion would be highly disappointing.
    scagwi
    LMAO!
    There is he!!
    JE! Missed ya' brotha' haha
    You must be pumped, yeah?
    You called it on the upcoming release. Nicely done.
    Credit where it's due

    Hey bud! Glad to see the old group still kicking it and supporting HB! I've been a member of operation sports forum for a long time, just really never used it much, so it's good to know there is a place where we can be FRANK about the game :)
    I believe I know alot more about the game than I can tell, If I told ya, you know how the saying goes- "Id have to shoot ya".. ;)
    Seriously, we don't have a ton of options so I'm sure each and every one of us whom love video golf can find a way to get our money's worth out of the game.
    OnlookerDelay
    JE, I (I'm jcauthen04 from the official TGC forum, BTW) fessed up to meeting the description Scagwi painted before you did here, but it's nice to have some company. You made the call on the new game when I thought you were putting your neck on the block... don't back down from taking the credit you deserve! You've demonstrated that you do have a reliable lark at HB Studios, and with your profession I can see why that might be the case.
    Don't make a stranger of yourself around here. This is a good forum to get some balanced discussion on all golf games.

    Hey brother! Fancy meeting you around these parts! Hey, I might know more than I lead on, but I gotta keep myself from chirping! In all honesty, why do you think it's taken HB so long to come out with news? Maybe it's because they've been working their Canadian butts off :)
    johneric8
    Hey brother! Fancy meeting you around these parts! Hey, I might know more than I lead on, but I gotta keep myself from chirping!

    JE, it seems to me like you're playing your connection right. I wouldn't change anything about they way I was "chirping" if I were you. It's obviously working and you aren't having messages deleted or edited, so keep on the same tack.
    In all honesty, why do you think it's taken HB so long to come out with news? Maybe it's because they've been working their Canadian butts off :)

    I now think HB Studios has taken so long to come out with the news because they've probably been up to their necks in PGA TOUR and 2K proceedings, especially if they're getting multiple featured pros in the game. It's obvious that Shaun has been under a gag order and he's been being a good soldier, if that's the case.
    johneric8
    I've been a member of operation sports forum for a long time, just really never used it much, so it's good to know there is a place where we can be FRANK about the game :)

    I discovered a stat today concerning Operations Sports and The TGC Official Forum that blew my mind. Both threads about PGA TOUR 2K21 got started on the same day, yet the OS thread has almost twice as many page views (8,231/4845) , as that of the official TGC forum!? The replies here are only 162 to 218 there, but the exposure to a wider array of eyes is clearly here! That's why I encourage you to engage yourself in the discussion here as well.
    What I'm really interested to see now is whether 2K is going to have its own native, PGA TOUR 2K21 forum? They do for NBA 2K20 and WWE 2K20, why not golf?
    I'm pretty sure 2K21 is going to look three times as good as Rory, have all the modes of play we all want and MORE content than TW14.
    Every PGA player. Every PGA course. All of it.
    The best golf game ever is coming soon..
    I'm pretty sure guys... pretty sure..
    :drink:
    scagwi
    I'm pretty sure 2K21 is going to look three times as good as Rory, have all the modes of play we all want and MORE content than TW14.
    Every PGA player. Every PGA course. All of it.
    The best golf game ever is coming soon..
    I'm pretty sure guys... pretty sure..
    :drink:

    What variety of beverage do you have in your cup there Buck? ;)
    MrArlingtonBeach
    Well, if we needed any more proof that PGA Tour 2K21 would have real pros, it's gonna have a cover athlete.
    https://twitter.com/PGATOUR2K/status/1260646042623569920
    And to me, if the silhouette means anything, it looks like it might be Justin Thomas.

    All nice to see
    But I'm not going to let the shiny objects of "Pro's in the game" distract me from wondering about the swing, the gameplay, the physics, the bunker graphics (among other things), is there a lobby?, on and on...
    I really don't like to be "that guy", but I'm skeptical that this release isn't simply a content update that could easily have been added to the 2019 game.
    I'd like to be proven very wrong
    MrArlingtonBeach
    Well, if we needed any more proof that PGA Tour 2K21 would have real pros, it's gonna have a cover athlete.
    https://twitter.com/PGATOUR2K/status/1260646042623569920
    And to me, if the silhouette means anything, it looks like it might be Justin Thomas.

    I think it's Brooks Koepka, based on the legs, chest and the shoulders. It's too stocky to be JT. Brooks usually has his hands and club lower than that at that point of his follow through though, but I still say it's him.
    Say... they're really milking this roll-up to the full detail announcement tomorrow aren't they with all these pro player teasers... maybe scagwi was right in his previous post! :)
    OnlookerDelay
    I think it's Brooks Koepka, based on the legs, chest and the shoulders. It's too stocky to be JT. Brooks usually has his hands and club lower than that at that point of his follow through though, but I still say it's him.

    Could be...but I think it's JT in a hoodie - which might explain the extra bulk in the chest and shoulders.
    MrArlingtonBeach
    Could be...but I think it's JT in a hoodie - which might explain the extra bulk in the chest and shoulders.

    Yeah, if JT was in a hoodie, and I can sorta see where that'd be possible in the silouette, that could be him. I still see Koepka in the hips and the thighs though... Are JT's thighs that muscular?
    Not sure...but others I see on TGC Tours forums are making a case that the cover athlete will be Jordan Spieth.
    I would think Koepka or JT would be picked before he would. But the fact that TGC has the connection to Under Armour already, I suppose it makes sense.
    Theoretically..
    If they didn't really do anything much with the swing, gameplay, physics, graphics...but added Pro golfers and maybe a couple more courses.
    Where does that put you guys as fans if they want a full $40-50 for that?
    (it's very possible - since just adding all that content would be expensive to license I'm sure)

    Are most of you in the camp of "I'll buy whatever they release"?
    scagwi
    Theoretically..
    If they didn't really do anything much with the swing, gameplay, physics, graphics...but added Pro golfers and maybe a couple more courses.
    Where does that put you guys as fans if they want a full $40-50 for that again?
    (it's very possible - since just adding all that content would be expensive on its own)

    Are most of you in the camp of "I'll buy whatever they release"?

    I don't chime in too often but to answer your question, no it wouldn't be a must buy for me if they only added a couple of courses and pro golfers.
    Personally, I love golf games and have been playing them for 25 years. I love playing golf in real life too. I also enjoy watching golf on tv from time to time. But I have never truly followed golf and all the pro's.
    So unless I had to buy it so I could continue with TGC Tours, then those things wouldn't thrill me.
    With that said, I cannot imagine the game being silenced for so long, adding 2k to the name, adding a cover athlete and doing all the build up they are doing only to say we have real golfers now and a couple/few new courses. I am pretty sure there will be new golfers, better graphics, some additions to the course creator, some tweaks to the physics and a more fleshed out career mode. Just wouldn't make any sense otherwise.
    PhantomPain
    With that said, I cannot imagine the game being silenced for so long, adding 2k to the name, adding a cover athlete and doing all the build up they are doing only to say we have real golfers now and a couple/few new courses. I am pretty sure there will be new golfers, better graphics, some additions to the course creator, some tweaks to the physics and a more fleshed out career mode. Just wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

    I can imagine it, particularly with how expensive licensing can be on its own. That might be the big swing of where they've spent most of their time and budget since abandoning TGC2019 18 months ago.
    I think HB feels their core game is just fine honestly. They fought tooth and nail in the past against so much feedback on their forum about changes and fundamental feelings about swing design, etc.
    I really believe, as someone in here commented on earlier, that 2k looks at this as a fairly inexpensive way to have "a product" in a space with zero competition and thus anything they put out is either "take it or leave it".
    Graphics: Are you assuming the trailer didn't have "the new graphics"? I think it did. I noticed some subtle changes when comparing 2019 to the Trailer. I think that's "it". Some subtle tweaks there but most all the same flaws from the past due to the server based course limitations.
    Regarding the length of "the silence". We shouldn't assume that all 18 months of nothing from HB was nose to the grindstone work on 2k21. For one thing, HB works on other products... but also, it's very conceivable that a long stretch went by where the future of their golf franchise was totally in question and it wasn't even known if there'd ever be another release.
    Without inside knowledge it'll be hard for us to track what really happened with HB & 2k and their decision to green light another version and the timelines, etc. -- All speculation of course.
    I'm not surprised there's another version. There is nobody to compete with. It's literally just free money for the taking here with most anything they release at this point. If they really wanted to put the screws in, they'd set a "termination date" for server access for the TGC games and people would bitch, moan and proclaim they are "done" and "never buying again" --- but those people are always bluffing and they'd go buy 2K21 to get their fix.
    It's the only game in town. What else would they do?
    This is precisely the "Monopoly playbook" that EA operates with in other areas, like NHL games.
    Like I mentioned earlier today, I need a fully fleshed-out career mode to even be interested in buying.
    Courses - I don't care much, as long as the status quo remains for course creation. I guess if they do add more "official" real courses that come paired with real life tournaments (i.e. Pebble Beach and the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro Am), I'd be a bit more interested. If they allow full customization of the PGA Tour career mode schedule, allowing you to add user made courses into the schedule, now you'd have my attention.
    Real golfers - playing as real golfers never really appealed to me, but having real names on career mode leaderboards does. It would be interesting if you could play as real pros in a career mode, but I could go either way on that.
    Gameplay - I would absolutely love to see some updates to physics in this series. I am not a huge fan of how TGC 2019 plays, all things considered.
    Conclusion:
    If they added a TW14-like career mode with real player names, a few more licensed courses, but changed very little with gameplay...I'd consider a purchase around release day if the game is $40.
    If it's $50-60, I'd need to see bigger gameplay updates, more real-life equipment and apparel to the career mode, at least 15-20 real life official courses (and at least one would have to be a marquee course, like Augusta), etc. to even think about purchasing. Most likely, I will pick up 2K21 once it's down around $20.
    @onlookerdelay
    Somebody is more than just a little bit excited for the new game!
    That looks like a "I'll buy it no matter what they release" -- amirite? :bump::headbang2
    scagwi
    I can imagine it, particularly with how expensive licensing can be on its own. That might be the big swing of where they've spent most of their time and budget since abandoning TGC2019 18 months ago.
    I think HB feels their core game is just fine honestly. They fought tooth and nail in the past against so much feedback on their forum about changes and fundamental feelings about swing design, etc.
    I really believe, as someone in here commented on earlier, that 2k looks at this as a fairly inexpensive way to have "a product" in a space with zero competition and thus anything they put out is either "take it or leave it".
    Graphics: Are you assuming the trailer didn't have "the new graphics"? I think it did. I noticed some subtle changes when comparing 2019 to the Trailer. I think that's "it". Some subtle tweaks there but most all the same flaws from the past due to the server based course limitations.
    Regarding the length of "the silence". We shouldn't assume that all 18 months of nothing from HB was nose to the grindstone work on 2k21. For one thing, HB works on other products... but also, it's very conceivable that a long stretch went by where the future of their golf franchise was totally in question and it wasn't even known if there'd ever be another release.
    Without inside knowledge it'll be hard for us to track what really happened with HB & 2k and their decision to green light another version and the timelines, etc. -- All speculation of course.
    I'm not surprised there's another version. There is nobody to compete with. It's literally just free money for the taking here with most anything they release at this point. If they really wanted to put the screws in, they'd set a "termination date" for server access for the TGC games and people would bitch, moan and proclaim they are "done" and "never buying again" --- but those people are always bluffing and they'd go buy 2K21 to get their fix.
    It's the only game in town. What else would they do?
    This is precisely the "Monopoly playbook" that EA operates with in other areas, like NHL games.

    Yeah I get it and you make some valid points. I still think they have done more than added pros and a few courses but we'll find out for sure tomorrow.
    When I saw the trailer released on Twitter when it first hit I literally was like "YES!" which startled my wife lol. But I am excited to at least have a newer version coming out. As much as the current iteration frustrates me with some of the physics, it by far gets the most play time for me.
    And I really like TGC Tours. I keep hovering at CC-E/CC-D. I was like many people that didn't think it would be possible to ever compete, but I had a couple of Top 10 finishes then won a tournament in CC-E. Was moved up to CC-D and thought I would start using Master's clubs (had been practicing quite a bit and felt confident) only to find myself back in CC-E after 2 tournaments lol. Then came in 3rd and was fast tracked back to CC-D of which 2 tournaments later (used Pro clubs this time but stunk the course up) and I am back in CC-E.
    So I will try and stay positive and hope for the best with tomorrow's announcement. If it sucks, then I will get pissed about it.
    PhantomPain

    So I will try and stay positive and hope for the best with tomorrow's announcement.

    I'm hopeful also.
    The bar is higher for them to clear with someone like me since I don't actually like TGC2019 enough to own or play it right now.
    scagwi
    Theoretically..
    If they didn't really do anything much with the swing, gameplay, physics, graphics...but added Pro golfers and maybe a couple more courses.
    Where does that put you guys as fans if they want a full $40-50 for that?
    (it's very possible - since just adding all that content would be expensive to license I'm sure)

    Are most of you in the camp of "I'll buy whatever they release"?

    No that's a money grab but would make sense considering it is being released a day before the PS5. Well not really but...
    lowpaiddonkey10
    No that's a money grab but would make sense considering it is being released a day before the PS5. Well not really but...

    It's a shame we can't get a large chunk of HB forum members to comment either way and then see if they buy 2k21 or not, isn't it?
    It'd be a fun test to see where peoples emotions really take them.
    I suspect a HIGH uptake rate here as it's the only in production serious golf game of any kind out there.
    Simply put - if you want something being actively developed, this is your only choice.
    scagwi
    It's a shame we can't get a large chunk of HB forum members to comment either way and then see if they buy 2k21 or not, isn't it?
    It'd be a fun test to see where peoples emotions really take them.
    I suspect a HIGH uptake rate here as it's the only in production serious golf game of any kind out there.
    Simply put - if you want something being actively developed, this is your only choice.

    I started with golf on my original playstation, I also spent a ton of time on the WII as well as being a rampant ps3 move player in the TW series. I thought the Move was implemented very well and I had some of the best times I've ever had playing that game with the move.
    In terms of buying 2k20, well it's a no brainer considering I put more hours into TGC than I have with any game I've owned. The value for money spent at least for me I feel like I've robbed HB studios.
    I think because I love the fact that I can play community built courses there is always going to be a carrot dangling for me in regards to HB's offerings. I've gone from only liking live multiplayer games to giving in and enjoying ghost balls and offline play against fake scores. I've never been one to complain about the swing either because I feel like whatever HB builds it's my job to learn how to use.
    There is no doubt for me, the issues I've had with the TGC franchise has been more about things being too clunky and difficult to use in regards to setting up matches. The simple things that can take the game over the top haven't been implemented properly. Take for example the option to play skins. I was a big supporter of being able to wager our own money for live multiplayer games but the way multiplayer was implemented it forces players using different clubs together which creates an environment for cheesers to game the system. Of course this ruins the great skins game they added for me.
    Basically, the gameplay has always been way more than enough for me in regards to the swing and physics, I've been let down by the simple things that should of been in the game from the start. This is whats always infuriated me about the game. I would absolutely love to start an offline society with an option to pick from different course season templates designed by other players. Think about how madden allows their community to upload their slider settings, defensive and offensive playbooks, ETC! This is something I use constantly in Madden and I feel like this type of community driven sharing options should be littered within TGC.
    This is perhaps a sillier thing to some folks, but after spending some time again with TW12 and TW14...
    I really really hope there's an all new, fully overhauled and rethought, interface for the game.
    The last time I was seriously involved with TGC, I remember it was just such a confusing chore that made no sense when all I wanted to do was play real-time, right now, multiplayer with my Uncle. It was just way more confusing and onerous than it needed to be --- thus the many calls over the years for the proven and easy to understand "lobby" interface for multiplayer.
    I hope some of those aspects have gotten a lot of work.
    scagwi
    @onlookerdelay
    Somebody is more than just a little bit excited for the new game!
    That looks like a "I'll buy it no matter what they release" -- amirite? :bump::headbang2

    You should have known that your question earlier about whether we're going to buy it if its just featured pros and more licensed courses was a rhetorical one in my case. I'm a golf game junkie, I have no restraint - I'd be buying it if was Atari Golf, rebranded as PGA TOUR 2K21! I think it's going to be a little more than just featured pros and courses though... Heck, I'd be more delighted to see the "power fade" reduced to a "wounded fade" with a slow downswing than any pros or courses they could put in the game.
    I know they're going to sell a ton more games with what they've done though, and I can't say I fault them for that. I just hope it isn't totally pros and courses though and I suspect it will, but will it be enough to get some of the hard core golf gamers to buy it? I can't say with what I know at this point. Still though, with all the hoopla surrounding this right now, I think it's risen above the level of Shaun's characterization of it as "some content" during his podcast interview!?
    Looking at their Facebook and twitter accounts, the amount of people asking is tiger in the game is staggering. There’s going to be a lot of disappointed folks. He’s the one name I just can’t see them getting. Maybe as AI on the leaderboard, but that’s it.
    jbd345
    Looking at their Facebook and twitter accounts, the amount of people asking is tiger in the game is staggering. There’s going to be a lot of disappointed folks. He’s the one name I just can’t see them getting. Maybe as AI on the leaderboard, but that’s it.

    Tells us a lot about the appeal of Tiger and, conversely, the utter lack of interest in 99% of the rest of the "PGA Tour" - at least in the mainstream.
    Tiger basically built the video game golf genre and audience as technology and his career really came of age together.
    We really have very little proof there is anything beyond niche interest in a simulation oriented golf video game that doesn't involve Tiger (or that existed during his prime).
    Maybe 2K21 will be the proof and blow up big time?
    (please - no comments that TGC was proof - sorry - no - hyper niche)
    scagwi
    Tells us a lot about the appeal of Tiger and, conversely, the utter lack of interest in 99% of the rest of the "PGA Tour" - at least in the mainstream.
    Tiger basically built the video game golf genre and audience as technology and his career really came of age together.
    We really have very little proof there is anything beyond niche interest in a simulation oriented golf video game that doesn't involve Tiger (or that existed during his prime).
    Maybe 2K21 will be the proof and blow up big time?
    (please - no comments that TGC was proof - sorry - no - hyper niche)

    It’ll be interesting to see how much the 2k name will carry the weight of sales. I do however think it’s smart not putting a big name to it like ea did with Rory. Guess will find out tomorrow. For me personally it’ll depend on how deep the content of pga licensed material is in the game.
    itsmb8
    While not the biggest name, Wolff is a SOLID player and a real up and coming star on Tour.
    For anyone who doesnt know, he's the guy who has the little hitch to get his backswing started.

    LOL, that's putting it mildly....His entire swing looks like a guy trying to fling a diseased possum off the end of a stick.
    scagwi
    Tells us a lot about the appeal of Tiger and, conversely, the utter lack of interest in 99% of the rest of the "PGA Tour" - at least in the mainstream.
    Tiger basically built the video game golf genre and audience as technology and his career really came of age together.
    We really have very little proof there is anything beyond niche interest in a simulation oriented golf video game that doesn't involve Tiger (or that existed during his prime).
    Maybe 2K21 will be the proof and blow up big time?
    (please - no comments that TGC was proof - sorry - no - hyper niche)

    Golf games enjoyed popularity in the semi-early days of PC gaming (Leaderboard Golf, Links / 386Pro, Jack Nicklaus Golf, etc). But I suppose you could argue that all of PC gaming was a niche thing back then. I do agree that as far as major-league modern (console) appeal, Tiger made the modern genre. It started and, unfortunately, ended with him.
    Also, I think expectations and development costs have just gotten so high that sales expectations/requirements are unreasonable. This new game could do great by any reasonable measure and still end up being killed by 2K if it doesn't hit some magical spreadsheet-created internal financial performance metric. Everything has to be "Madden" in the current gaming landscape, unfortunately.
    My guess is this new game is a vehicle to test how well microtransactions will be taken up by the golf gaming community, and if the answer is that they sell, there's a chance for future (potentially better) iterations. Sad state of affairs.
    It's Justin Thomas as the cover athlete and he will be accompanied by 11 other TOUR pros, according to an early XBox Store listing for the game.
    Here's a link to a copy of the listing; there's quite a bit of detail here:
    https://twitter.com/TWlegion/status/1260751402382606345/photo/1
    I wish I could pull the text out, but it's an image and I can't break it down. If I find the raw text, I'll paste it in later, but it sounds like they're getting quite a bit more out the PGA TOUR license than they did the last time.
    OnlookerDelay
    It's Justin Thomas as the cover athlete and he will be accompanied by 11 other TOUR pros, according to an early XBox Store listing for the game.
    Here's a link to a copy of the listing; there's quite a bit of detail here:
    https://twitter.com/TWlegion/status/1260751402382606345/photo/1
    I wish I could pull the text out, but it's an image and I can't break it down. If I find the raw text, I'll paste it in later, but it sounds like they're getting quite a bit more out the PGA TOUR license than they did the last time.

    Some highlights:
    All New PGA Tour Career Mode (become FedEx Cup Champion, take on pros while earning gear and rewards along the way), play against Justin Thomas and 11 other real pros, official courses include TPC Sawgrass and East Lake, personalized MyPlayer - including equipment and apparel options from brands "we love", skill level gameplay updates include things called Pro Vision, Distance Control, and Putt Preview, local and online matches with modes like alt-shot and 4-player scrambles, Online Societies return, cut-scenes and replays added, and new commentary from Luke Elvy and Rich Beem.
    8/21/20 release date
    My take: gonna need a lot more info on the career mode. TGC 2019 had the FedEx Cup, too. MyPlayer is nice - what I was kind of hoping for. Everything else...meh. Doesn't seem like a lot of change. Gonna have to wait and see.
    TPC Sawgrass, East Lake "and more"
    :y11:
    Good to see that it will probably have a nice polished TV style PGA presentation.
    That could/should be nice.
    The text is really interesting how it talks about creating your own courses. I wonder if they've changed anything there.
    Pro Vision, Distance Control and Putt Preview.
    Ohhhh boy...
    They better allow not just turning that stuff off - but locking it out..
    or people will go ballistic
    I've got to say, I'm impressed so far even with the few details. Even though it's only PR stuff. But then again, we're talking about customers of the golf genre complaining about everything already. Whining that there's only 12 Tour pros in the game? No Tiger announced yet? Really??? We're our worst enemy.
    Need to know if the PGA Players are playable, just says against.
    East Lake is a big addition, but the focus on FedEx Cup and not majors is meh. So hoping season schedule is editable.
    Equipment from brands we love intrigues me, need to know more. I assume Titleist, Foot Joy, and Ralph Lauren are in, since they're JT's brands.
    For me, I need to know about gameplay (vs previous versions)
    All of this is precisely lining up with the "additional content" comments from HB.
    BDKiiing
    Need to know if the PGA Players are playable, just says against.
    East Lake is a big addition, but the focus on FedEx Cup and not majors is meh. So hoping season schedule is editable.
    Equipment from brands we love intrigues me, need to know more. I assume Titleist, Foot Joy, and Ralph Lauren are in, since they're JT's brands.

    Good point...it does say "against" only. No mention of majors has me bummed out. And if Titleist is in, that would actually be a major coup. I always was mind-blown that it never made it into the Tiger Woods games.
    Thanks for putting that in a post we could read here Steven. I'm disappointed to see that it's going to be a late August release though. I think I'm going to wait until I learn more about what all is behind this before I comment on it. I had guessed they might have 8 to 10 pros, but 12 is on the scale of TW PGA Tour games... I'm a bit surprised at that, but I think it'll help sell the game.
    I hope that TheApexHound will have Shaun West on with him tomorrow and play a round with him while answering questions. I thought that they both did a good job with that with TGC 2019, and it told me more about the game than anything else I saw prior to launch.
    pietasterp
    My guess is this new game is a vehicle to test how well microtransactions will be taken up by the golf gaming community, and if the answer is that they sell, there's a chance for future (potentially better) iterations. Sad state of affairs.

    That's also my feeling on this. It's still on this generation of consoles, no new engine... it looks like a test drive. If it sells, we go forward. If not, it's going to go the way of EA for 2K and HB will be on its own.
    OnlookerDelay
    I hope that TheApexHound will have Shaun West on with him tomorrow and play a round with him while answering questions.

    Here's what I'd like: "Hey Shaun, did you notice the real PGA Tour Pro's commenting on the unrealistic shot outcomes in TGC 2019? -- Did that get addressed?"
    Massive respect if he goes there (he should)
    Real information, not a PR stunt to read bullet points off the DVD jacket would be refreshing.

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