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Madden NFL 23 Gameplay Video - Head-to-Head with Commentary From Game Designer

madden 23 gameplay

Madden NFL 23

Madden NFL 23 Gameplay Video - Head-to-Head with Commentary From Game Designer

EA has released a new Madden NFL 23 gameplay video today. For those of you that didn’t get a chance to participate in the closed beta back in June, this provides a closer look at the latest code prior to release.

The video features @TDBarrett vs. @CleffTheGod from the Madden Championship Series with commentary from Madden NFL 23 game designer, K. Spade. Remember him?

Check out the video below and let us know your thoughts.

Madden NFL 23 officially releases on August 19. By pre-ordering the Madden NFL 23 All Madden Edition before August 18, fans will receive a variety of benefits including 3-day early access, 4600 Madden Points, Dual Entitlement to upgrade to the PlayStation 5 or Xbox Series X version, Exclusive Early Access Challenges, and more.

EA Play members can also play Madden NFL 23 early through a 10-hour trial starting three days before launch.

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  1. PhillyPhanatic14
    Well this isn't LIVE gameplay like they're advertising it to be... the teams just switched uniforms lol. It's like weird unattached highlights and explanation/advertising.
    Yeah weird video I watched 2 minutes and closed it.
    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
    Going to be hard to judge their coverage when they keep usering the LB and leaving gaps everywhere. Not interested in hearing these two talk about the game, wanted to see raw gameplay.
    Cannot wait to play the game myself.
    Done watching that mess, but I will say it's nice to see the AI Defense constantly shutting down TDBarrett's little fade to the outside right of the pocket that he does on every single play. Defense wasn't letting him do that at all and it wasn't the User he was playing - it was all the AI.
    Even with all the user LB play, you can see pretty easily that country Cover 3 leaves the seams wide the hell open.
    Gonna be a lot of four verticals this year with the de-emphasizing of match zones, just as I feared.
    Ive never been big in to online play or the YouTube people who play for the videos, but do these guys not know how to step up in the pocket with their QB? They could reduce the amount of sacks and rollouts if they step up in the pocket. Heck there was one play where had the guy not rolled left and, instead, stepped up in the pocket, the whole right field was open.
    tarheelguy4736
    Ive never been big in to online play or the YouTube people who play for the videos, but do these guys not know how to step up in the pocket with their QB? They could reduce the amount of sacks and rollouts if they step up in the pocket. Heck there was one play where had the guy not rolled left and, instead, stepped up in the pocket, the whole right field was open.
    No because they'll just cry on Twitter until the devs nerf the pass rush. Rinse and repeat.
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    tarheelguy4736
    Ive never been big in to online play or the YouTube people who play for the videos, but do these guys not know how to step up in the pocket with their QB? They could reduce the amount of sacks and rollouts if they step up in the pocket. Heck there was one play where had the guy not rolled left and, instead, stepped up in the pocket, the whole right field was open.

    To be fair to them, stepping up in the pocket has rarely been a skill Madden emphasized.
    Madden 22 in particular disproportionately rewarded leaving clean pockets early, to the extent than any pocket formed (as opposed to a wall) because tackles did not get depth in their pass sets and edge rushers could not continue moving forward while engaged with an OL.
    I only watched a little but I definitely saw 2 instances where pressure was applied via the LB and the O-lineman just kind of moves out of his way and didn't even attempt to block him. He wasn't engaged with any other player so it looked oddly like he was just letting him rush the QB on purpose. once time they focused on the replay and it was glaringly obvious because the linebacker was running right at him and he didn't engage.
    I can't tell much at all from this video overall though.
    By the 2nd half of their game each team was just running 4 verts and passing to the seams every play. Really glad we got "gameplay" from two MUT guys.
    So disappointed the first gameplay release is cheesers playing on comp. There is a video released today on Youtube called "Madden 23 Gameplay BIG Detail Improvements With PROOF" from a user named Im that Matt that is showing some of the real gameplay improvements, specifically the run game control, the parts of him usering Saquon and Kamara are what I experienced in the beta and make for some of the most eye opening footage of Madden 23's potential I've seen. very nice video. I watched it on mute so I can't speak to his commentary, and It's obv footage from the beta so Im not gonna link it, but I will say it looks A LOT better than the trash they showed this AM.
    icicle22
    I only watched a little but I definitely saw 2 instances where pressure was applied via the LB and the O-lineman just kind of moves out of his way and didn't even attempt to block him. He wasn't engaged with any other player so it looked oddly like he was just letting him rush the QB on purpose. once time they focused on the replay and it was glaringly obvious because the linebacker was running right at him and he didn't engage.
    I can't tell much at all from this video overall though.
    That just shows that line play wasn't a focus just speed of Defense and pursuit. Line play needs to be the next leap for 2024. It's bad like horrific bad...that was my gripe with the coverage in the beta. Boosting everyone to play faster doesn't fix it just bandaids it. We need ratings to determine who plays faster and who plays slower. Not boost everyone for the sake of boosting. Every team isn't an all Madden roster of 99s
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    I don't know why I expected anything other than this terrible display. Back of the box features are for tighter and smarter coverage yet they promote MUT Verts all video with braindead defenders letting players run wherever they want on the field.
    My hype naturally has gone down. Now I have to see if Sim setting in CFM is a polished version of the beta like they promised or else it'll be another long boring year.
    I can’t stand TD Barrett. Outside of his very punchable face, and skin crawling one liners, he plays sports games like an absolute dweeb. I blocked his recommends on YouTube because I literally can’t stand seeing his annoying and over the top facial expressions on his thumbnails.
    You can’t convince me that anyone over the age of 16 actually watches his videos. Not the gameplay I was looking for to be honest. On the bright side, we are about a week out from release so should be getting a ton of better gameplay videos very soon
    What are these yellow grid lines that keep appearing on this video? Are these visual markers of pre-release game play, or are these intended to be part of the game?
    RogueHominid
    What are these yellow grid lines that keep appearing on this video? Are these visual markers of pre-release game play, or are these intended to be part of the game?
    Just annoying video cuts that made it even harder to watch
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    Therebelyell626
    I can’t stand TD Barrett. Outside of his very punchable face, and skin crawling one liners, he plays sports games like an absolute dweeb. I blocked his recommends on YouTube because I literally can’t stand seeing his annoying and over the top facial expressions on his thumbnails.
    You can’t convince me that anyone over the age of 16 actually watches his videos. Not the gameplay I was looking for to be honest. On the bright side, we are about a week out from release so should be getting a ton of better gameplay videos very soon

    Hell exists and it's watching his videos. The fact he has millions of subscribers and is on Madden's front page promoting a football game is wild to me. Dude probably can't throw a ball 10yards and doesn't know what a stunt is, but Madden will give him access to promote hot routing verts and slants into every concept he calls even when it makes no sense.
    CM Hooe
    Even with all the user LB play, you can see pretty easily that country Cover 3 leaves the seams wide the hell open.
    Gonna be a lot of four verticals this year with the de-emphasizing of match zones, just as I feared.

    Isn't that as intended then? Cover 3 is generally considered weak against seams, especially between the deeper safeties. And then also the flats. At least that's what I've always been taught in football-ese, which is why you also will try to flood the coverage.
    I'm glad I'm not the only one questioning what exactly was on display in this video, besides the gridline issues.
    I didn't see simulation NFL football on display, which I believe is how Madden is technically categorized. Rather, I saw Madden-ball on display in a way that features how the new passing mechanics can be used to play Madden-ball.
    If that's what they were going for, they nailed it. 10/10. If they were going for something else, the score might be lower.
    My response is somewhere in the yuck/gross/no thanks area. I do have friends who will get and stream the game day one, so I'll be able to see how it looks when someone who plays more how I play interacts with the game. Thank goodness for that.
    I like that they have disguise plays built into defensive playbooks now. I feel like in years past the CPU didn’t do a good job disguising their looks. This should really help AI play calling
    Therebelyell626
    I can’t stand TD Barrett. Outside of his very punchable face, and skin crawling one liners, he plays sports games like an absolute dweeb. I blocked his recommends on YouTube because I literally can’t stand seeing his annoying and over the top facial expressions on his thumbnails.
    You can’t convince me that anyone over the age of 16 actually watches his videos. Not the gameplay I was looking for to be honest. On the bright side, we are about a week out from release so should be getting a ton of better gameplay videos very soon

    I saw the other thread confirming my suspicion about him. I never seen his videos, but know other Madden youtubers do that intro "YOOOOOOO IT'S YO BOY *Youtube name* HERE WITH ANOTHER EXCLUUUUUSIVE CLIP OF THE NEW MADDEN 23 FRESH, HOT OFF THE RELEASE TIP!"
    Call me old school, but I don't like that TGI Friday/Applebees Server energy. Just be cool and show us the game.
    GoJags904
    That just shows that line play wasn't a focus just speed of Defense and pursuit. Line play needs to be the next leap for 2024. It's bad like horrific bad...that was my gripe with the coverage in the beta. Boosting everyone to play faster doesn't fix it just bandaids it. We need ratings to determine who plays faster and who plays slower. Not boost everyone for the sake of boosting. Every team isn't an all Madden roster of 99s
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

    I've been giving this a lot of thought lately...and as I've stated before, I'm just as much, if not more a Coach Mode/Spectator Mode type of guy...so when I look at what you said through those lens, that works perfectly. But, for the USER v AI style of play, how do you strike a balance between realism and competitive where the AI is concerned? Will it be a situation where it becomes 100% advantage USER if the AI speed is slowed down or they play like they should if they have low awareness? How do you balance it?
    ChaseB
    Isn't that as intended then? Cover 3 is generally considered weak against seams, especially between the deeper safeties. And then also the flats. At least that's what I've always been taught in football-ese, which is why you also will try to flood the coverage.

    You are correct. Spot-drop Cover 3 is indeed vulnerable up the seams.
    I made the note because I’ve been lamenting the back-seating of match zones in Madden 23 since the foundational football Gridrion Notes blog was published. I will probably continue to do so as long as Madden continues to ignore the past 30 years of defensive football evolution; match coverages have been used widely in the NFL since the 1990s.
    I can understand the concern of making sure the play art matches the assignments players actually perform on the field (which is a big reason why match assignments are gated by a coaching adjustment in M23), but match coverages really need to be a point of emphasis in the game going forward from here.
    ChaseB
    Isn't that as intended then? Cover 3 is generally considered weak against seams, especially between the deeper safeties. And then also the flats. At least that's what I've always been taught in football-ese, which is why you also will try to flood the coverage.

    There's a difference between being weak against certain concepts and being completely unresponsive in coverage. There were multiple instances of vertical routes threatening deep 3rd CBs and Safeties and the defenders would remain in a slow backpedal without reacting to the route whatsoever.
    All I saw on display here was the typical MUT Madden gameplay with users who abuse the AI anyway they can and "wide open gameplay" where open routes have no defender within 7+ yards of the intended WRs. Spot drop zones aren't supposed to just have gaping holes in them. I understand it's MUT Comp Style default settings and all that but this is a showcase of their game who's back of the box feature is tighter and smarter coverage.
    Watch the play at the 2:30 mark. The #1 WR on the right side is running a simple 9 route, straight up the field. The CB on that side of the field has deep 3rds. Which means, that 9 route vs the deep 3rd should at the very least be accounted for. Instead, the CB stays in his backpedal until he reaches the goal line after starting his backpedal on the 10yd line and lets the 9 route just run right by. People who don't know football will call that the "seam" because it's in a condensed formation inside the #s but that is specifically the CBs responsibility.
    It would be one thing if the defense did their job and lesser rated defenders got beat more consistently, but this video is just typical Madden gameplay that shows that no matter who is in coverage the offense has the advantage because the defense just doesn't react to anything.
    And again I'm sure this is just MUT Comp Style so the sim community still has at least a sliver of hope but promoting this after publicly stating that an improved version of the beta was the primary goal is hilarious to me.
    TarHeelPhenom
    I've been giving this a lot of thought lately...and as I've stated before, I'm just as much, if not more a Coach Mode/Spectator Mode type of guy...so when I look at what you said through those lens, that works perfectly. But, for the USER v AI style of play, how do you strike a balance between realism and competitive where the AI is concerned? Will it be a situation where it becomes 100% advantage USER if the AI speed is slowed down or they play like they should if they have low awareness? How do you balance it?
    I divert to cpu vs cpu because of the extreme advantages we(users) have over the cpu. All Madden is an example of this new "boost" play where players all have that increase while the user stays at default. If a lowly rated player has bad awareness but good speed/pursuit and decent coverage. Make him slow to pick up on route breaks etc but fast in catching up with the receiver. If the user can see that and exploit that, make double teams work with pre snap controls or change coverage calls to adapt. If the gameplay worked as intended this would be acceptable. Ratings should matter not ppls complaints because every player isn't a superstar
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    TarHeelPhenom
    I dig this. This is pleasing to the eye as a spectator.

    via GIPHY


    I'm glad they added these "defensive evade" moves but it doesn't look like they added any reaction to them to the O-Linemen. In the video, they just stand there and get blown by. Would be nice to see them lunge or grab or hold or anything besides give them a head nod and say "My pleasure."
    Hassan Darkside
    I'm glad they added these "defensive evade" moves but it doesn't look like they added any reaction to them to the O-Linemen. In the video, they just stand there and get blown by. Would be nice to see them lunge or grab or hold or anything besides give them a head nod and say "My pleasure."

    #70 appeared to get beat by an INSTA-WIN from Von Miller and #49 came in right behind him. It probably would have looked better if #70 would have made an attempt on #49 after he got beat though.
    At 2:10 I just can't anymore. I am glad the last Madden I got was 2020. There is no way in real football in cover 3 you leave a guy going up the seam that wide open. The DB is still back pedaling by the time the ball gets there. It's a freaking joke. No turning even sideways once the ball is thrown, no picking up the man coming into your zone. Even if it's weak against it, it's not weak enough that I am going to score a 80 yard TD every single time if I was on the 20 yard line doing that same play. He is going to catch that and keep running until he gets home. That is not cover 3 how it truly is.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB3jGU4cZ0&ab_channel=TheDBRoom
    Edit: and this is why I had to put in house rules for myself because it's just too easy to cheat the cpu. All-Madden doesn't change anything if you know you can just do plays like this.
    Paging CM HOOE...
    What do we think about this coverage?

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    You seem to have a good grasp on coverage. Why would the superstar safety come down and take the TE running to the flat, when there is already a defender in that area...and they just leave the seam wide open? I could be wrong but this looks like a coverage bust and if so I'm surprised they chose to highlight that.
    TarHeelPhenom
    Paging CM HOOE...
    What do we think about this coverage?

    via GIPHY


    You see to have a good grasp on coverage. Why would the superstar safety come down and take the TE running to the flat, when there is already a defender in that area...and they just leave the seam wide open?
    Ugh that's ugly. The LB has to go with him there
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    TarHeelPhenom
    #70 appeared to get beat by an INSTA-WIN from Von Miller and #49 came in right behind him. It probably would have looked better if #70 would have made an attempt on #49 after he got beat though.

    I'm referencing pretty much all the clips in the video showing the move besides this one.
    XtremeDunkz
    Ugh that's ugly. The LB has to go with him there
    Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

    I'm trying to understand this. Was this just a bad playcall on the defense? I'm assuming James was playing his correct assignment on the play because as soon as the ball was snapped he made a b-line to the flats. I'm hoping it was just a bad play call lol.
    TarHeelPhenom
    I'm trying to understand this. Was this just a bad playcall on the defense? I'm assuming James was playing his correct assignment on the play because as soon as the ball was snapped he made a b-line to the flats. I'm hoping it was just a bad play call lol.

    Nope, that is game play designed. The LB either needs to back pedal more up the seam or the CB needs to float toward were the guy is. There is only 2 guys doing routes on that side of the field. All 3 should not be covering the flat area. Even though CB isn't covering the flat area, he kind of is because he did not move toward the seam area once the WR started to run up that area. He was like playing that far right like that flat area was left uncovered. What is worse is the safety on the other side of the field is breaking toward that seam guy before the guy next to him is.
    I am not saying there shouldn't be blown assignments because there is always that in real football games, however, this has been in Madden forever. I do not even need to get into other things I saw in this clip, there is no point. People are just going to chalk it up as oh well, which is fine, but for me I just can't anymore with this.
    This isn't a new issue but the emphasis on precision passing seems to make it worse. The wideouts will adjust their routes automatically to balls placed out of position even if they aren't looking, while defenders won't react to things they should see right in front of their faces. Unless pass rush is very, very powerful (didn't seem that way) then it's bombs away season.
    TarHeelPhenom
    Paging CM HOOE...
    What do we think about this coverage?
    via GIPHY
    You seem to have a good grasp on coverage. Why would the superstar safety come down and take the TE running to the flat, when there is already a defender in that area...and they just leave the seam wide open? I could be wrong but this looks like a coverage bust and if so I'm surprised they chose to highlight that.

    Based on the corner bailing and the rotation of the safeties, this call looks like it should be Cover 3 Sky. Which, if it is, I have absolutely no idea why the Mike LB is chasing the TE to the flat. That’s not his job at all at any time ever.
    Madden 22 had similar issues where players in Hook Curl zones (the yellow zones found in rush-four drop-seven in Cover 3 defenses) would easily take the cheese on players going to the flat. Most often that flat route would have to be a running back, because the game was confusing Cover 3 Drop rules and Cover 3 Match rules. This is new incorrect behavior, and it bothered me when I saw it.
    One thing to keep in mind, though: competitive Madden players routinely and frequently use defensive hot routes to create exotic coverages based on whatever they think the meta is. It’s possible that LB was hot routed to a hard flat by the defensive user.
    Another thought: I joined the stream late, was the gameplay difficulty level for this match mentioned at any point?
    I spent most of my beta game time playing on All Pro / Simulation, and the lack of responsiveness to the ball by zone defenders shown off this morning doesn’t match what I remember seeing in the beta at all.
    CM Hooe
    Another thought: I joined the stream late, was the gameplay difficulty level for this match mentioned at any point?
    I spent most of my beta game time playing on All Pro / Simulation, and the lack of responsiveness to the ball by zone defenders shown off this morning doesn’t match what I remember seeing in the beta at all.

    I think difficulty doesn't matter because I've seen those examples mentioned on that type of play on all 3 levels over the years.
    I know the more common logic for most people is to assume those things tend to just happen on lower playing levels but it's Madden and that stuff happens
    I'll check out the trial next week but I skimmed through the new fieldsense stuff and all of this new tackle/animation/physics stuff they talked about is once again bull. :google:
    Playmakers
    I think difficulty doesn't matter because I've seen those examples mentioned on that type of play on all 3 levels over the years.
    I know the more common logic for most people is to assume those things tend to just happen on lower playing levels but it's Madden and that stuff happens

    I mean, sure, but this is a night and day difference in behavior I am talking about here, and I’m confident anyone else who logged extensive hours in the beta would agree with me here.
    In the M23 beta, Byron Jones and Xavien Howard would start reacting to the ball literally the moment my quarterback started his throwing motion. It was admittedly almost too fast. The zone defense reaction time shown off today is just wildly different from what we all saw earlier this summer.
    I remain hopeful that this is just a competitive game style or low difficulty setting issue, but I guess we will all find out either way in a week.
    The beta was completely different as it always is. The differences between Comp/Arcade/Sim, plus Rookie/Pro/AP/AM shouldn't excuse the fact that defense's shouldn't be completely incompetent in coverage. The differences in those modes and settings should just increase the gap of how easy or hard it may be to recognize what is happening in the game, as well as how loose or tight the AI is while a play is going on.
    The simple fact is that a CB in deep 3rds shouldn't be backpedaling with his literal only man is running a vertical route in his assignment window. The LB in hook to curl responsibility should not be strafe shuffling to the flat.
    The fact that the guys in the video mention that "seams are going to be in this year" just shows how far off the brand is as a whole. In real life there are no "in" concepts that work more often than anything else each year. Football is about finding weaknesses in matchups, play calls, and tendecies, not what 2 routes beat every single coverage no matter what.
    CM Hooe
    I mean, sure, but this is a night and day difference in behavior I am talking about here, and I’m confident anyone else who logged extensive hours in the beta would agree with me here.
    In the M23 beta, Byron Jones and Xavien Howard would start reacting to the ball literally the moment my quarterback started his throwing motion. It was admittedly almost too fast. The zone defense reaction time shown off today is just wildly different from what we all saw earlier this summer.
    I remain hopeful that this is just a competitive game style or low difficulty setting issue, but I guess we will all find out either way in a week.
    That's true. I'd rather keep the boost till they fix the normal coverage assignments and logic. That was my band-aid grip but it is more realistic than this typical madden cheese. They didn't fix the logic they just boosted up reaction times and speed. Hell my Jags backup dbs had it n they were trash ratings wise. Could be dev time contraints or other more important things needing to be added idk.
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    Starting at the 5:15 minute mark, watch #97 Joey Bosa and Buffalo's RT #77. Bosa beats him like a drum on 4 straight plays the exact same way with the RT animating the same way...whiffing on the block and landing on his tail lol. Here is two of them.

    via GIPHY

    TarHeelPhenom
    Starting at the 5:15 minute mark, watch #97 Joey Bosa and Buffalo's RT #77. Bosa beats him like a drum on 4 straight plays the exact same way with the RT animating the same way...whiffing on the block and landing on his tail lol. Here is two of them.
    >

    They underrated the beejebus out of Spencer Brown, he's like a 67 overall against a Top 10 in Bosa. Numerically they're gonna treat that as an almost insta shed each time, annoyingly.
    I'm not sure what anyone expected to see on comp mode with these guys.
    Also, the play in question of the wide open TD, well obviously that's ugly. But it's one play, and hopefully not a fundamental issue. I'm not gonna panic yet. These plays happen sometimes, and there could have been hot routing. Not sure about that. Maybe someone knows.
    I'm still excited. I really enjoyed the beta. If they don't nerf it, I should enjoy the game. Hopefully it stays enjoyable. 22 was probably the first time in years I didn't play after December.
    The beta was the best Madden has felt to me in forever. They said they aren't changing it. So let's wait and see. If that play is an issue, hopefully it's fixed in a day one patch.
    PVarck31
    I'm not sure what anyone expected to see on comp mode with these guys.
    Also, the play in question of the wide open TD, well obviously that's ugly. But it's one play, and hopefully not a fundamental issue. I'm not gonna panic yet. These plays happen sometimes, and there could have been hot routing. Not sure about that. Maybe someone knows.
    I'm still excited. I really enjoyed the beta. If they don't nerf it, I should enjoy the game. Hopefully it stays enjoyable. 22 was probably the first time in years I didn't play after December.
    The beta was the best Madden has felt to me in forever. They said they aren't changing it. So let's wait and see. If that play is an issue, hopefully it's fixed in a day one patch.

    I am too. This changes nothing!
    YaBarber
    The beta was completely different as it always is. The differences between Comp/Arcade/Sim, plus Rookie/Pro/AP/AM shouldn't excuse the fact that defense's shouldn't be completely incompetent in coverage. The differences in those modes and settings should just increase the gap of how easy or hard it may be to recognize what is happening in the game, as well as how loose or tight the AI is while a play is going on.
    The simple fact is that a CB in deep 3rds shouldn't be backpedaling with his literal only man is running a vertical route in his assignment window. The LB in hook to curl responsibility should not be strafe shuffling to the flat.
    The fact that the guys in the video mention that "seams are going to be in this year" just shows how far off the brand is as a whole. In real life there are no "in" concepts that work more often than anything else each year. Football is about finding weaknesses in matchups, play calls, and tendecies, not what 2 routes beat every single coverage no matter what.

    You have to be mindful that what you’re calling Competence is driven by variables underneath & when those variables are set at certain levels by design to provide creation gameplay outcomes/User experience, that’s not a flaw upon the OVR AI Behavior as a whole.
    The lowest Difficulty level Rookie (which was said what they were playing on) by design waters down AI impacts to provide a space for the younger/newer Madden gamers, with “Fun” being the focal factor over Simulation and/or Competitive gaming experience.
    - So that safety not reacting correctly & looking like poor Logic on this setting, is delayed by design so that the young/new Madden User can experience the thrill (ie Fun) of scoring a Passing TD.
    These guys do all sorts of adjustments before the play on both sides of the ball that lead to wonky results. That's why I find it so hard to watch them play at all. I'll wait and see how the game plays in the trial firsthand before I lean one way or the other. Maybe we will get more videos that are user vs CPU, though I doubt it. Not even a week until we can try the game ourselves. Either it plays like the beta and I am happy, or it doesn't and I likely won't be as happy.
    Watching madden tourney guys on comp, not sure what you guys expected. It’s typical junk you’ll always see in these types of videos.
    Let the sim gamers get on the game and provide our feedback. I truly think this has the potential to be an awesome madden cycle.
    The 24th Letter
    …………………
    ………
    I preordered on hope it plays like the beta moreso than this. I will blame this on marketing till after the day one patch is installed and I run a few games.
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    GoJags904
    That just shows that line play wasn't a focus just speed of Defense and pursuit. Line play needs to be the next leap for 2024. It's bad like horrific bad...that was my gripe with the coverage in the beta. Boosting everyone to play faster doesn't fix it just bandaids it. We need ratings to determine who plays faster and who plays slower. Not boost everyone for the sake of boosting. Every team isn't an all Madden roster of 99s
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

    The bold. It's funny that people keep saying things like this. Next year. Next year. Next year. We've been waiting on them to make a complete game for years now while being sold a "new" game at full retail price every year and an expensive special edition copy. Then, we get told that the "new" game is better than last year's game and they somewhat admit that the previous year's game wasn't good.
    I think it's safe to say, with all of the yearly proof we have, that we won't get a complete game. Ever. But one thing is for certain. They're gonna keep making money selling an unfinished product and they know it.
    I really don't understand EA and the way they market the game. It feels like they gear the initial information releases and beta towards the Sim/hardcore crowd and keep that narrative for a couple of months but never show gameplay.
    Then when they finally release gameplay they pick youtubers who don't play with a style of the information previously released. I get they are reaching different markets, but surely they could release 3 gameplay videos, one targeted for comp players, one for Sim and one for arcade and have appropriate people play each.
    In all seriousness I don't know why they would they would use this TD guy at all, he's arguably done more damage to the Madden brand than Ryan Moody with his play style
    MoreThanAGamer
    The bold. It's funny that people keep saying things like this. Next year. Next year. Next year. We've been waiting on them to make a complete game for years now while being sold a "new" game at full retail price every year and an expensive special edition copy. Then, we get told that the "new" game is better than last year's game and they somewhat admit that the previous year's game wasn't good.
    I think it's safe to say, with all of the yearly proof we have, that we won't get a complete game. Ever. But one thing is for certain. They're gonna keep making money selling an unfinished product and they know it.

    This isn’t just an Madden thing.
    No sports game is complete, esp to the core gamers of that sport that spends 100’s hours playing that game.
    - their forums of core players speak at those titles as the same clip core Madden gamers
    As far as the OL/DL interaction in the Beta, throw me as a core Madden gamer into the crowd of noticing a large improvement within this gameplay area, both Pass & Run.
    Did anyone ask if giving all Browns season ticket holders free copies of Madden 23 is because that's the only way they'll see Deshaun Watson play this year?
    I'm pretty certain that my games vs the CPU on All-Madden are going to have very few instances of receivers running wide open either for me or against me.
    The OL as well as every other position does need more "valiant effort" failure animations to increase the immersion level.
    ChaseB
    Isn't that as intended then? Cover 3 is generally considered weak against seams, especially between the deeper safeties. And then also the flats. At least that's what I've always been taught in football-ese, which is why you also will try to flood the coverage.

    Exactly!!! Isn't that why Seattle's defense was different? They were running match coverage to take away the seams. If these guys played match 3 in 23, those seams wouldn't have been open.
    khaliib
    You have to be mindful that what you’re calling Competence is driven by variables underneath & when those variables are set at certain levels by design to provide creation gameplay outcomes/User experience, that’s not a flaw upon the OVR AI Behavior as a whole.
    The lowest Difficulty level Rookie (which was said what they were playing on) by design waters down AI impacts to provide a space for the younger/newer Madden gamers, with “Fun” being the focal factor over Simulation and/or Competitive gaming experience.
    - So that safety not reacting correctly & looking like poor Logic on this setting, is delayed by design so that the young/new Madden User can experience the thrill (ie Fun) of scoring a Passing TD.

    I understand wanting to make it fun but am I wrong for thinking that they can make it look realistic and still have a "fun" factor, even on the easiest difficulty?
    Why can't the DB turn and run with the WR but the WR just has more room to breathe and make a play on the ball? Also, if it's user vs. user, why does the defense always get nerfed?
    PVarck31
    I'm not sure what anyone expected to see on comp mode with these guys.
    Also, the play in question of the wide open TD, well obviously that's ugly. But it's one play, and hopefully not a fundamental issue. I'm not gonna panic yet. These plays happen sometimes, and there could have been hot routing. Not sure about that. Maybe someone knows.
    I'm still excited. I really enjoyed the beta. If they don't nerf it, I should enjoy the game. Hopefully it stays enjoyable. 22 was probably the first time in years I didn't play after December.
    The beta was the best Madden has felt to me in forever. They said they aren't changing it. So let's wait and see. If that play is an issue, hopefully it's fixed in a day one patch.

    There it is, perfectly stated. You saved me from typing out a long post lol! Keep the wet blankets I’m ready for Tuesday, let’s see what we get!
    YaBarber
    Hell exists and it's watching his videos. The fact he has millions of subscribers and is on Madden's front page promoting a football game is wild to me. Dude probably can't throw a ball 10yards and doesn't know what a stunt is, but Madden will give him access to promote hot routing verts and slants into every concept he calls even when it makes no sense.

    Lol TD was a qb in high school
    Quentin32
    Lol TD was a qb in high school

    As I said in another thread, I don't care what his background is, on his YouTube channel he plays the game like a jackanapse. I'll give him credit for not going full R in this video (although there were some dumb things like throwing across the field). And I'll give him credit for trying to show what is new in the game in this video.
    But on his channel? Makes me want to barf.
    CM Hooe
    You are correct. Spot-drop Cover 3 is indeed vulnerable up the seams.
    I made the note because I’ve been lamenting the back-seating of match zones in Madden 23 since the foundational football Gridrion Notes blog was published. I will probably continue to do so as long as Madden continues to ignore the past 30 years of defensive football evolution; match coverages have been used widely in the NFL since the 1990s.
    I can understand the concern of making sure the play art matches the assignments players actually perform on the field (which is a big reason why match assignments are gated by a coaching adjustment in M23), but match coverages really need to be a point of emphasis in the game going forward from here.

    You are 100% correct. Cover 3 is indeed weak against the seems... but not THAT weak. And yes, match coverage is a big problem.
    So we'll have to manually turn on match coverage in order for match coverage to work, right?
    TarHeelPhenom
    Paging CM HOOE...
    What do we think about this coverage?
    via GIPHY
    You seem to have a good grasp on coverage. Why would the superstar safety come down and take the TE running to the flat, when there is already a defender in that area...and they just leave the seam wide open? I could be wrong but this looks like a coverage bust and if so I'm surprised they chose to highlight that.

    Who calls cover 3 in the red zone? I don't know if I've ever seen it in an NFL game. Usually it's man or cover 4.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    So we'll have to manually turn on match coverage in order for match coverage to work, right?

    Yup, it's now an in-game defensive coaching adjustment. I don't think it is possible to set up default settings for those, so you will need to toggle it on each game.
    Additionally, I don't know what takes priority if you additionally use the zone drop depth coaching adjustments (does the match adjustment override those, or do any of those override using the match adjustment?), that's something we will have to figure out next week.
    Finally, I just assume that the CPU isn't going to use the match coverage coaching adjustment at all because it hasn't yet been mentioned, so I am going into next week assuming the CPU is going to spot drop all year. I hope I am wrong on that.
    CM Hooe
    Yup, it's now an in-game defensive coaching adjustment. I don't think it is possible to set up default settings for those, so you will need to toggle it on each game.
    Additionally, I don't know what takes priority if you additionally use the zone drop depth coaching adjustments (does the match adjustment override those, or do any of those override using the match adjustment?), that's something we will have to figure out next week.

    Finally, I just assume that the CPU isn't going to use the match coverage coaching adjustment at all because it hasn't yet been mentioned, so I am going into next week assuming the CPU is going to spot drop all year. I hope I am wrong on that.

    Ugh... pretty sure you're right.
    Once again people who know nothing about football ruin the game...
    However, there is some hope, since on All Madden the CPU has super human awareness, and maybe coverage sliders can help with this.
    .
    .
    .
    Sidenote, we should expect something wide open in cover 3 in the red zone, which is why teams don't call cover 3 in the red zone.
    Quentin32
    Lol TD was a qb in high school

    That doesn’t mean anything. The guy is like 5’10 and 160 lbs soaking wet. And for all we know he ran a wishbone offense or something and never had to read a defense in his life.
    I have seen videos of his in the past, and the way he plays the game is utterly ridiculous. Yeah I get he’s trying to make money off of YouTube and draw eyeballs, but anyone who plays a whole game running out there punt formation every down is a complete dweeb
    Since it was introduced the zone depth adjustments has always overridden the match principles, so I expect that this will still be the case even with the match toggle being in the coaching adjustments as well.
    I personally expect the CPU to automatically use the match principles despite the change made for the User. The play art consistency is of course irrelevant for it, and I don't expect the devs to put the CPU into a such a disadvantageous position on defense in this instance, but yep, we'll have to wait and see.
    CM Hooe
    Yup, it's now an in-game defensive coaching adjustment. I don't think it is possible to set up default settings for those, so you will need to toggle it on each game.
    Additionally, I don't know what takes priority if you additionally use the zone drop depth coaching adjustments (does the match adjustment override those, or do any of those override using the match adjustment?), that's something we will have to figure out next week.
    Finally, I just assume that the CPU isn't going to use the match coverage coaching adjustment at all because it hasn't yet been mentioned, so I am going into next week assuming the CPU is going to spot drop all year. I hope I am wrong on that.

    Has the match coverage adjustment always been in the game? If so, how do you do it?
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    To be optimistic, could it be that it's Comp mode, which makes manual moves overpowered?

    That guy moody is somewhat against EA
    But EricRayWeather alsop voiced his concerned with the pass blocking and OL play even in the Beta and today.
    So as much as we tend to have guys repeatedly mention a mode or level being the issue with pass blocking I'm just not willing to concede that is the main reason.
    Some of this stuff looks just like the same blocking AI when seen for years now.
    It could just be bad coding by EA as opposed to any level or mode.
    Jr.
    Has the match coverage adjustment always been in the game? If so, how do you do it?

    The match coverage adjustment is new for Madden 23. You enable it in the in-game defensive coaching adjustments menu at play call (the menu where you may configure WR vs DB matchups, tackling aggression, etc).
    In previous Madden games, coverages which used pattern-matching principles by default - Cover 3 Match, Cover 3 Buzz Match, Cover 4 Quarters, Cover 4 Palms, Cover 6, and Cover 9 - were not labeled in such a way which indicated that they were not spot-drop zones. This apparently was a major complaint of many players that the art of the play didn't match the assignments the players actually performed on the field. Additionally, it wasn't obviously clear that both the zone depth drop defensive coaching adjustments and the "Sticks" pre-snap coverage adjustment disable match coverage rules entirely.
    In Madden 23, all of the previously mentioned coverage calls which played match coverage in prior Madden games will now always play spot-drop zones by default. Advanced Madden users can re-enable match coverage rules and assignments on those same plays using the new coaching adjustment.
    Therebelyell626
    That doesn’t mean anything. The guy is like 5’10 and 160 lbs soaking wet. And for all we know he ran a wishbone offense or something and never had to read a defense in his life.
    I have seen videos of his in the past, and the way he plays the game is utterly ridiculous. Yeah I get he’s trying to make money off of YouTube and draw eyeballs, but anyone who plays a whole game running out there punt formation every down is a complete dweeb

    After he said he played QB in HS i googled him and he's apparently 6'3 lmaooo. but regardless.. the way he acts, plays madden and speaks about anything related to football tells me that he probably doesn't know a ton about the game of football itself, which translates to his youtube channel. Maybe it is all an act for the clout but it doesn't really matter. His channel gives off I play pickup street ball in jeans and slides with 4 kids in the neighborhood so i know football vibes.
    Playmakers
    That guy moody is somewhat against EA
    But EricRayWeather alsop voiced his concerned with the pass blocking and OL play even in the Beta and today.
    So as much as we tend to have guys repeatedly mention a mode or level being the issue with pass blocking I'm just not willing to concede that is the main reason.
    Some of this stuff looks just like the same blocking AI when seen for years now.
    It could just be bad coding by EA as opposed to any level or mode.

    I’ve been saying for years that the line play is awful and not enough people talk about it.
    Inside zone plays will double team across the board and never get to second level. Pulling linemen won’t get upfield or will even pull the wrong way. Downfield blockers will run right by defenders. Gap responsibility is non existent as players will simply get warped out of a gap for inexplicable reasons… It is so bad in so many ways.
    I saw some of the issues with blocking weeks ago in tweets that EA themselves were tweeting out lol.
    xCoachDx
    I’ve been saying for years that the line play is awful and not enough people talk about it.
    Inside zone plays will double team across the board and never get to second level. Pulling linemen won’t get upfield or will even pull the wrong way. Downfield blockers will run right by defenders. Gap responsibility is non existent as players will simply get warped out of a gap for inexplicable reasons… It is so bad in so many ways.
    I saw some of the issues with blocking weeks ago in tweets that EA themselves were tweeting out lol.

    Yeah it'll always make me chuckle that Clint is this former NFL OL yet one of the biggest issues with Madden is the OL/DL play. There's no true assignments on either side of the ball. The OL just slide back for passes and block whoever is in front of them on runs. The DL just rushes forward and tries to make a play.
    But to reference the clip of the OL just staring at rushers run by them in the video. I've said it plenty of times over the years but if the OL would just look like they're trying to block the guy but can't then it wouldn't be as bad. The game is bashed all the time because of plays like in this video. CBs just clueless. If it looked like they just couldn't make a play with a visual animation then you can say ok he just didn't get there in time. Instead we see players just watching people run by them and pretending it didn't happen
    xCoachDx
    I’ve been saying for years that the line play is awful and not enough people talk about it.
    Inside zone plays will double team across the board and never get to second level. Pulling linemen won’t get upfield or will even pull the wrong way. Downfield blockers will run right by defenders. Gap responsibility is non existent as players will simply get warped out of a gap for inexplicable reasons… It is so bad in so many ways.
    I saw some of the issues with blocking weeks ago in tweets that EA themselves were tweeting out lol.

    I didn't enjoy much of Madden 22, but the bold simply has not matched my experience with the game whatsoever. Blocking execution of under-center running plays is literally the only component of the game that I enjoyed.
    I've seen plenty of ace blocks (on Inside Zone against the play-side nose) and deuce blocks (on the front-side of Power against over fronts) get to the second-level defender. You can absolutely weaponize centers and offensive guards with the Post Up ability running these plays. That ability isn't necessarily mandatory for the play to succeed, but it helps a whole lot. Zack Martin and Jason Kelce are beasts in the run game in part because of this ability.
    I've seen plenty of pulling linemen execute their assignments correctly, both as the alley-sealing blocker in power and the kick-out blocker in counter. It helps to have an OL who is unusually fast (70+ SPD); only 35 of the 152 guards in the Madden 23 launch roster reach or exceed this threshold, so you have to know who your puller is and put your players in position to succeed. On plays such as Toss, Crack Toss, and screen passes, it is helpful to know that the puller's landmark in Madden is the top of the numbers, so running those plays closer to the boundary side can help out slower linemen as well.
    I can even reliably set up downfield blockers, with two important caveats: 1 - I need to know how the run blocking scheme works against the particular defensive front, and 2 - I do not sprint unless I have no one left to beat. Sprinting appears to trigger some different component of the blocking AI which is admittedly less predictable. IMO this is what a lot of people complain about with the open field run blocking AI being a bit bone-headed.
    I concede that Madden 22 has a fair bit of player warping. Again, I didn't like much about the game, it has problems. But my experience with the X's and O's of run blocking was very solid.
    YaBarber
    Yeah it'll always make me chuckle that Clint is this former NFL OL yet one of the biggest issues with Madden is the OL/DL play. There's no true assignments on either side of the ball. The OL just slide back for passes and block whoever is in front of them on runs. The DL just rushes forward and tries to make a play.
    But to reference the clip of the OL just staring at rushers run by them in the video. I've said it plenty of times over the years but if the OL would just look like they're trying to block the guy but can't then it wouldn't be as bad. The game is bashed all the time because of plays like in this video. CBs just clueless. If it looked like they just couldn't make a play with a visual animation then you can say ok he just didn't get there in time. Instead we see players just watching people run by them and pretending it didn't happen

    Not true. So many times in a zone blocking run I’ve had my lineman or FB run right passed a defender.
    Yeah it'll always make me chuckle that Clint is this former NFL OL yet one of the biggest issues with Madden is the OL/DL play. There's no true assignments on either side of the ball. The OL just slide back for passes and block whoever is in front of them on runs. The DL just rushes forward and tries to make a play.
    Fellas we still talking about a fundamental issue like blocking in 2022 think about that for a min
    Before anyone says good AI Blocking cant be replicate in a
    Video game ummmmm hello¶¶¶¶¶¶
    https://youtu.be/S5S-9LPMzwA
    https://youtu.be/35ZMNq3WNyA
    https://youtu.be/yttDmZ32srE
    This is why i lol when people give EA excuses like the hire ups holding the Devs back on making a good gameplay thats why the blocking been bad for years? Yea ok buddy
    You can't hide talent
    Keep in mind also, that this footage is Competitive Gameplay and not SIM. Plus they it doesn't even seem like they really made and effort to show us some of the new things added in gameplay, in this footage. I will just wait until I can play on my terms
    Black Bruce Wayne
    Keep in mind also, that this footage is Competitive Gameplay and not SIM. Plus they it doesn't even seem like they really made and effort to show us some of the new things added in gameplay, in this footage. I will just wait until I can play on my terms

    So I don't understand...what does having Competition mode and not Sim mode have anything to do with a top 5 center or ANY center for that matter completely looking clueless and not even trying to block? It's not like the defender even put a spin move or anything on him.
    He just flat out looked lost. It was so bad that it looked like it's a bug in the game or it's just bad code development.
    CM Hooe
    I didn't enjoy much of Madden 22, but the bold simply has not matched my experience with the game whatsoever. Blocking execution of under-center running plays is literally the only component of the game that I enjoyed.
    I've seen plenty of ace blocks (on Inside Zone against the play-side nose) and deuce blocks (on the front-side of Power against over fronts) get to the second-level defender. You can absolutely weaponize centers and offensive guards with the Post Up ability running these plays. That ability isn't necessarily mandatory for the play to succeed, but it helps a whole lot. Zack Martin and Jason Kelce are beasts in the run game in part because of this ability.
    I've seen plenty of pulling linemen execute their assignments correctly, both as the alley-sealing blocker in power and the kick-out blocker in counter. It helps to have an OL who is unusually fast (70+ SPD); only 35 of the 152 guards in the Madden 23 launch roster reach or exceed this threshold, so you have to know who your puller is and put your players in position to succeed. On plays such as Toss, Crack Toss, and screen passes, it is helpful to know that the puller's landmark in Madden is the top of the numbers, so running those plays closer to the boundary side can help out slower linemen as well.
    I can even reliably set up downfield blockers, with two important caveats: 1 - I need to know how the run blocking scheme works against the particular defensive front, and 2 - I do not sprint unless I have no one left to beat. Sprinting appears to trigger some different component of the blocking AI which is admittedly less predictable. IMO this is what a lot of people complain about with the open field run blocking AI being a bit bone-headed.
    I concede that Madden 22 has a fair bit of player warping. Again, I didn't like much about the game, it has problems. But my experience with the X's and O's of run blocking was very solid.

    Crazy how two people can have massively different experiences.
    The number of times I’ve had a playside linebacker in the B gap go completely untouched while the guard runs over to double team a 5 technique (which the LT just warps his head across) and holds that block for three seconds is mind boggling.
    xCoachDx
    I’ve been saying for years that the line play is awful and not enough people talk about it.
    Inside zone plays will double team across the board and never get to second level. Pulling linemen won’t get upfield or will even pull the wrong way. Downfield blockers will run right by defenders. Gap responsibility is non existent as players will simply get warped out of a gap for inexplicable reasons… It is so bad in so many ways.
    I saw some of the issues with blocking weeks ago in tweets that EA themselves were tweeting out lol.
    I'll also have to disagree here also. I had to make a house rule for myself to limit how often I ran inside zone plays because they were a guaranteed 7+ yards every single time. This is with my user Run Block slider at 0 or 1.
    Even in the beta it was too easy to run at times, but I mostly played all games on default All Madden, so that is part of it. The last two days of the beta is when I finally began tinkering with sliders and in the brief time I played with altered sliders it seemed like I was actually going to be able to turn blocking down enough to finally have a challenging running game.
    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
    canes21
    I'll also have to disagree here also. I had to make a house rule for myself to limit how often I ran inside zone plays because they were a guaranteed 7+ yards every single time. This is with my user Run Block slider at 0 or 1.
    Even in the beta it was too easy to run at times, but I mostly played all games on default All Madden, so that is part of it. The last two days of the beta is when I finally began tinkering with sliders and in the brief time I played with altered sliders it seemed like I was actually going to be able to turn blocking down enough to finally have a challenging running game.
    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

    I’ll look and see if I have any videos still of it. It wasn’t a random occurrence. It was a very frequent thing not just the year, but previous years as well.
    Like I said, I’ll always be baffled at how games can apparently play so different between two people. Poor blocking schemes is one of the biggest things that has turned me away from this game over recent years.
    canes21
    I'll also have to disagree here also. I had to make a house rule for myself to limit how often I ran inside zone plays because they were a guaranteed 7+ yards every single time. This is with my user Run Block slider at 0 or 1.
    Even in the beta it was too easy to run at times, but I mostly played all games on default All Madden, so that is part of it. The last two days of the beta is when I finally began tinkering with sliders and in the brief time I played with altered sliders it seemed like I was actually going to be able to turn blocking down enough to finally have a challenging running game.
    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

    Running is always easy
    I think the issue is pass blocking logic
    It's been underwhelming for years. Yes you can account for the bad AI awareness but that still doesn't mean the logic isn't bad.
    That play where the center just stood there and watched the guy has been in madden for a decade now that's why I keep disagreeing with people who claim it's either mode or level related because you go can back to madden 12, 13, 14 and beyond and see the same exact type of thing.
    The OL has no true situational awareness the just block who they are programmed to block
    extremeskins04
    So I don't understand...what does having Competition mode and not Sim mode have anything to do with a top 5 center or ANY center for that matter completely looking clueless and not even trying to block? It's not like the defender even put a spin move or anything on him.
    He just flat out looked lost. It was so bad that it looked like it's a bug in the game or it's just bad code development.

    In theory, if a user presses a button for a move in Comp mode, the game causes the AI player to mysteriously forget how to play football so that the user input trumps everything.:y220a:
    YaBarber
    After he said he played QB in HS i googled him and he's apparently 6'3 lmaooo. but regardless.. the way he acts, plays madden and speaks about anything related to football tells me that he probably doesn't know a ton about the game of football itself, which translates to his youtube channel. Maybe it is all an act for the clout but it doesn't really matter. His channel gives off I play pickup street ball in jeans and slides with 4 kids in the neighborhood so i know football vibes.

    Well I’ll be d*****!
    He doesn’t look that big at all lol
    YaBarber
    Yeah it'll always make me chuckle that Clint is this former NFL OL yet one of the biggest issues with Madden is the OL/DL play. There's no true assignments on either side of the ball. The OL just slide back for passes and block whoever is in front of them on runs. The DL just rushes forward and tries to make a play.
    But to reference the clip of the OL just staring at rushers run by them in the video. I've said it plenty of times over the years but if the OL would just look like they're trying to block the guy but can't then it wouldn't be as bad. The game is bashed all the time because of plays like in this video. CBs just clueless. If it looked like they just couldn't make a play with a visual animation then you can say ok he just didn't get there in time. Instead we see players just watching people run by them and pretending it didn't happen

    I am not sure if I put all that on Clint. I am sure his knowledge of blocking schemes in the NFL is vastly different than coders, old code and programmers working on Madden.
    In other words, I don't think Clint has a choice in going up against the old coding that is still present in the game.
    This has been a long standing(no pun intended lol) issue with Madden, not just OL either.
    It's hard to put stock into a playthrough that doesn't use the same gameplay settings that I'd use. It's just different when the controller is in your hands and you're feeling the game.
    I've got 8 days to go, I can wait until I'm in-game and playing to make any conclusions. I mean, heck, I already bought the game.
    Playmakers
    That play where the center just stood there and watched the guy has been in madden for a decade

    I mean, in a 5-0 protection call against a five-man defensive surface (Madden’s default five-man pass blocking response to double eagle / bear / odd defensive fronts with five immediate pass rushing threats), the center has to put eyes on the guy directly in front of him first, even if he doesn’t actually attack the quarterback. That is at least initially correct. Fooling the eyes of offensive linemen is the entire point of fire zone blitz calls. Mike Zimmer made an entire career calling the double mug front repeatedly to occupy the center’s eyes and force the offense into six-man protections.
    I don’t know if that is specifically what’s being talked about in whatever video was linked - I don’t have any interest watching any Ryan Moody video, we all know his schtick by now and I actually want to enjoy playing Madden - but there are absolutely cases where an OL putting eyes on a defender who isn’t actually rushing is quite appropriate to simulate. If fire zones are going to work in Madden, it has to be possible to fool offensive linemen.
    YaBarber
    After he said he played QB in HS i googled him and he's apparently 6'3 lmaooo. but regardless.. the way he acts, plays madden and speaks about anything related to football tells me that he probably doesn't know a ton about the game of football itself, which translates to his youtube channel. Maybe it is all an act for the clout but it doesn't really matter. His channel gives off I play pickup street ball in jeans and slides with 4 kids in the neighborhood so i know football vibes.
    Tbf, streaks on every play works more often than not in street ball. U usually have a checkdown crosser In the street games but that's prob more sim than they play in the streets he frequents
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    CM Hooe
    I mean, in a 5-0 protection call against a five-man defensive surface (Madden’s default five-man pass blocking response to double eagle / bear / odd defensive fronts with five immediate pass rushing threats), the center has to put eyes on the guy directly in front of him first, even if he doesn’t actually attack the quarterback. That is at least initially correct. Fooling the eyes of offensive linemen is the entire point of fire zone blitz calls. Mike Zimmer made an entire career calling the double mug front repeatedly to occupy the center’s eyes and force the offense into six-man protections.
    I don’t know if that is specifically what’s being talked about in whatever video was linked - I don’t have any interest watching any Ryan Moody video, we all know his schtick by now and I actually want to enjoy playing Madden - but there are absolutely cases where an OL putting eyes on a defender who isn’t actually rushing is quite appropriate to simulate. If fire zones are going to work in Madden, it has to be possible to fool offensive linemen.

    You ought to watch the video. There is nothing remotely realistic about that play.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    You ought to watch the video. There is nothing remotely realistic about that play.

    I’ve seen that play a bunch of times in football, granted it’s at a 7 year old level when children are learning the game and/or completely uninterested in playing.
    Love the game or hate the game there are something’s that just can’t be defended.
    That play was ugly. It wasn't the norm in the beta, for me, so I am not too worried about it. I get why people are concerned. On the other hand, we just watched two people play the game in a terrible manner and when all of that is said and done, there's only one play everyone is pointing to with that bad of blocking which shows it was potentially a one-off type of thing.
    If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if the LB that was being user controlled on the play had an assignment that wasn't rushing the passer and his initial delay in rushing, then rushing despite his assignment may have just led to wonky AI. Either way, it was ugly, but it also was clearly an irregular play based off of the video.
    It's not completely unbelievable either. I can easily go to YouTube and search for for unblocked sacks/tackles for loss and get a long list of videos from NFL games where players are left unblocked in questionable manners. It doesn't look as bad as the clip at times, but the result remains as questionable.
    Given my experience with the beta, I doubt that type of play will happen frequently enough to be an issue, but we will see very soon.
    People are hoping for this game to change. But this will be the same ole Madden. There is plenty of proof in this video. Hope for you guys buying this it's better than Battlefield.
    Black Bruce Wayne
    Keep in mind also, that this footage is Competitive Gameplay and not SIM. Plus they it doesn't even seem like they really made and effort to show us some of the new things added in gameplay, in this footage. I will just wait until I can play on my terms

    Doesn't matter what mode it's in, the AI coverage especially safety play was pretty bad. From the gif, the safety is backpedaling looking at the TE while the TE is running right down the middle of the field.
    Freebirdz
    People are hoping for this game to change. But this will be the same ole Madden. There is plenty of proof in this video. Hope for you guys buying this it's better than Battlefield.

    See, I don't get why this mentality persists here. Why even post? Why even comment? It feels like you're seeing people who are looking forward to something and thought "no, I need to piss in those cheerios."
    Let people be excited who want to be excited.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    You ought to watch the video. There is nothing remotely realistic about that play.

    Yeah there's absolutely no way to defend that kind of broken pass blocking logic.
    He had time to at least attempt a block but it was as if the defender was a ghost to him.
    But hey like I said initially that type of blocking logic has been there for a decade now.
    Surprised EA is still allowing it to happen that way in gameplay.
    Broncos86
    See, I don't get why this mentality persists here. Why even post? Why even comment? It feels like you're seeing people who are looking forward to something and thought "no, I need to piss in those cheerios."
    Let people be excited who want to be excited.

    Exactly, ImThatMatt has shown TONS of positive plays on his YouTube showcasing improvements. This is the first year I really with I had a PS5 to experience it on.
    Sent from my iPad Pro
    Broncos86
    See, I don't get why this mentality persists here. Why even post? Why even comment? It feels like you're seeing people who are looking forward to something and thought "no, I need to piss in those cheerios."
    Let people be excited who want to be excited.

    I'll be rebuked if I say why, but everyone knows what's up.
    Man my experience with the beta was phenomenal for what it was and trying to do. With that said, todays gameplay was not thought through enough!
    No one wants to see either of these guys playing the style of play they play zig your main goal was to eliminate that type of exploitation gameplay from your game!
    It has been confirmed the game was on rookie so I will give it that as most watching suspected something was wildly off with the defense.
    I’m pretty sure that olinemen blocking Casper is surely gonna get patched up as that’s not a good look at all and I’m sure they’re hearing about it!
    So everyone who plays online expect for everyone to try and run streaks up the seams and cry about it not working like in this video
    I officially canceled my pre-order today and will play the 10 hour trail before I decide if it's worth it. The gameplay looks a bit improved, but it still feels like it's the same old animation based engine. Everything looks and feels so pre-determined. I miss the old PS2 era Madden where making a tackle actually felt like you actually did something instead of your player just magnetically sticking to the guy. Also, the same old linemen that just stand there do nothing and do not even acknowledge defensive players rushing past them.
    bapgap
    I officially canceled my pre-order today and will play the 10 hour trail before I decide if it's worth it. The gameplay looks a bit improved, but it still feels like it's the same old animation based engine. Everything looks and feels so pre-determined. I miss the old PS2 era Madden where making a tackle actually felt like you actually did something instead of your player just magnetically sticking to the guy. Also, the same old linemen that just stand there do nothing and do not even acknowledge defensive players rushing past them.

    I remember that era. I remember being on a forum prior to people moving here, and the complaints were plenty. No pocket formed, Superman LBs for example. It’s rose colored glasses. If I had to choose between PS2 and today, I’ll take today’s Madden gameplay every day. It’s not even close.
    Fine, great, glad you cancelled. Good luck. See you next year when you’ll post this again.
    bapgap
    I officially canceled my pre-order today and will play the 10 hour trail before I decide if it's worth it. The gameplay looks a bit improved, but it still feels like it's the same old animation based engine. Everything looks and feels so pre-determined. I miss the old PS2 era Madden where making a tackle actually felt like you actually did something instead of your player just magnetically sticking to the guy. Also, the same old linemen that just stand there do nothing and do not even acknowledge defensive players rushing past them.

    Just curious, Why did you preorder to begin with? Referencing ps2, same old animation, same old linemen, etc. just seems you didn’t like its recent versions.
    Broncos86
    I remember that era. I remember being on a forum prior to people moving here, and the complaints were plenty. No pocket formed, Superman LBs for example. It’s rose colored glasses. If I had to choose between PS2 and today, I’ll take today’s Madden gameplay every day. It’s not even close.
    Fine, great, glad you cancelled. Good luck. See you next year when you’ll post this again.

    Nah, the PS2 era is hands down the golden age of Madden and it's not even close. Franchise mode and Superstar mode in Madden 07 still destroys these current games.
    I was really hoping they would honor John Madden and truly give us the best version in years, but I just don't see it (hell, they still can't get refs on the field lol). It's truly sad what EA has done to this franchise ever since the move to the 360/PS3 era.
    After going back and reviewing this video again nothing rings more true than "don't look at replays" if you want to enjoy this game. The kickoff that begins at the 10:38 mark, two players for the Bills, number 53 and 31, run by Chargers players without laying a hand on anybody. Number 53, after running into the back of two of his own teammates who are blocking, does peel back as the runner number 6 starts to cut left and gets into a standup tackle animation that he eventually breaks. Number 31 is on the right side and runs past the action and then turns around like " I think I'm supposed to be doing something".
    These are things that break down plays and cost games when players don't know where they are on the field. It happens during running plays a lot in Madden games. Blockers be running around mindless, don't lay a hand on anybody, and sometimes they get in the way.
    I know it can't be perfect and games have flaws but these are legacy issues that have never been fixed. These things make it feel like I'm playing the same game just a different year.
    I have a video on my phone from the beta of a screen pass to Kamara that is one of the best examples I've ever seen of football videogame Oline logic. There are 4 OL in front Kamara, each one of the 4 blocks the exact defender they should have 1 after the other (including 1 awesome looking pancake block) springing a 75 yard TD. I wish I could post that video, it would put some peoples minds at ease I think.
    reverend_heat
    I have a video on my phone from the beta of a screen pass to Kamara that is one of the best examples I've ever seen of football videogame Oline logic. There are 4 OL in front Kamara, each one of the 4 blocks the exact defender they should have 1 after the other (including 1 awesome looking pancake block) springing a 75 yard TD. I wish I could post that video, it would put some peoples minds at ease I think.

    It really wouldn't, because there are still going to be some instances where the an olineman completely whiffs and those occurrences, which are now outliers in Madden, says more about the game to some people than blocking being great the overwhelming majority of the time.
    Dissatisfaction with Madden about various aspect of the game usually translates into its legacy issues being harped on quite a bit.
    I trust what my own eyes saw during the Beta. So this video did nothing to curb my enthusiasm. I'll wait to play it again next Tuesday to see if anything drastically changed.
    As should be known, I'm still getting the game and still calling out the bs at the same time. I do have an more linear view of things tho. I thought about bball and the defense complaints as well as offense and also the mechanics. Madden has 22 players on the field so we need to be happy If even half of them do football esque logic during each given play. Someone somewhere Is going to be doing something stupid at all times. Once this is accepted then the frustration calms alot.
    I had gripes with the beta but it was wayyy more sped up than this overall. I'll take the speed boosted play and upgraded blocking and wr aggression when it happens. I'm football drunk, so content with my product flaws and all at the end of the day. I'll leave the criticism alone in this thread for Broncos and friends. Be happy and think about the fact that no game is perfect so who cares where madden lies in sports gaming. Reminds me of talking things with my friends who play MUT. They could care less an still spend hundreds for cards etc. Not everyone gives a damn to the same extent
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    jfsolo
    It really wouldn't, because there are still going to be some instances where the an olineman completely whiffs and those occurrences, which are now outliers in Madden, says more about the game to some people than blocking being great the overwhelming majority of the time.

    Yeah I mean linemen NEVER miss blocks in the real NFL. What the heck is going on with Madden where they sometimes completely whiff?
    ODogg
    Yeah I mean linemen NEVER miss blocks in the real NFL. What the heck is going on with Madden where they sometimes completely whiff?

    Which really gets to the heart of the difficulty simulating a videogame, how do you write code to simulate human mental and physical errors that occur in every real NFL game that is played. The honest answer is you can't, at least not without pissing off a lot of people. Especially when an entire subset of your fanbase (Comp/MUT) desire literally ZERO errors to ever occur. Guess what, whiffed blocks happen on basically every drive in every NFL game, let me know when the center ignores a blitzer every single play in Madden and I will pay attention to it.
    reverend_heat
    Which really gets to the heart of the difficulty simulating a videogame, how do you write code to simulate human mental and physical errors that occur in every real NFL game that is played. The honest answer is you can't, at least not without pissing off a lot of people. Especially when an entire subset of your fanbase (Comp/MUT) desire literally ZERO errors to ever occur

    We want SIM until SIM happens I guess lol. It is and always will be a video game.
    reverend_heat
    Which really gets to the heart of the difficulty simulating a videogame, how do you write code to simulate human mental and physical errors that occur in every real NFL game that is played. The honest answer is you can't, at least not without pissing off a lot of people.

    Its a great point, I was actually arguing with a guy on Twitter the other day who said that if you're controlling a DB and you hit triangle and it's thrown right at you that you should catch it 100% of the time.
    I asked him if he had ever watched the real NFL on Sunday because it's filled with head scratching drops, easy interceptions, by defensive backs.
    He said yeah but this is a game about skill and skill should always be rewarded.
    I guess maybe head to head is a different mindset for some but even for me, if I were a head to head guy, would not want to way that football works to better assist me in my video game prowess.
    It changes it from something resembling the NFL, to something that is simply a game and nothing more.
    Yes a game modeling football should always have dumb mistakes by the AI in it, why? Because in real life people make dumb mistakes.
    I think the thing about that is, it shouldn't be common or prevalent for linemen to miss blocks, especially highly rated ones. So it really boils down to percentages.
    But it really just irks me when I see videos or hear people saying "look at this, this guy missed this block" and present it like evidence that the game is broken. In some cases yes it may be, but in a large part of those complaints, it's the game playing like the game should play to model an imperfect bunch of men playing a game that is often partly chance.
    The irony is that for years I have seen many of those same folks in here complain about passes being too accurate. But yes, incredibly enough there are people who get very angry if their crappy, low rated QB overthrows a receiver.
    I think we all have to decide, do we want a video game or a sort of simulation? Right now it's sort of both but some folks are still trying hard to change it into no real simulation at all and make it simply a videogame.
    I ask because changing things like some as asking for changes this completely away from being a simulation. It already has it's issues with being more game-like than sim-like but it seems for many people they won't stop until it has completely abandoned all pretense of being modeled on the real game of football and instead being a competitive videogame that is nothing like real football.
    TarHeelPhenom
    We want SIM until SIM happens I guess lol. It is and always will be a video game.

    So if you're playing a game, throw the ball to a wide open pretty good RB that is on your team and he drops it, is that an issue for you or are you ok with that?
    Because RBs, even good ones, do drop easy passes every Sunday.
    But we all know that when that happens to us in Madden that we do not like it.
    Now me, I don't like it because my play didn't work and I move on, I consider it a realistic outcome.
    But many people consider the fact that a good RB dropped an easy pass a problem.
    Thus the different views of Madden and how it should work.
    EDIT: however, if I do have my RB drop it again and again and again, then it goes from being a realistic outcome on a play, to being a game bug and/or some sort of Madden issue. But just a single drop by a good RB doesn't mean the game is fubar'ed is what I'm saying.
    ODogg
    So if you're playing a game, throw the ball to a wide open pretty good RB that is on your team and he drops it, is that an issue for you or are you ok with that?
    Because RBs, even good ones, do drop easy passes every Sunday.
    But we all know that when that happens to us in Madden that we do not like it.
    Now me, I don't like it because my play didn't work and I move on, I consider it a realistic outcome.
    But many people consider the fact that a good RB dropped an easy pass a problem.
    Thus the different views of Madden and how it should work.
    EDIT: however, if I do have my RB drop it again and again and again, then it goes from being a realistic outcome on a play, to being a game bug and/or some sort of Madden issue. But just a single drop by a good RB doesn't mean the game is fubar'ed is what I'm saying.

    Oh, I'm with you. My point was missed blocks are a simulation of what happens in real life football games; and that we Simheads are always talking about sim, until something sim happens that has a negative effect on the experience. As far as your example goes with throwing to your running back over and over and he drops the ball over and over being an issue. There is an instance in this video where Joey Bosa beats the RT for Buffalo on 4 straight plays...it plays out the exact same way with the Tackle reaching out to block Bosa, whiffing, and then falling on his face lol...same exact animation. You don't see that often, but when you do it's kinda cringe worthy. But, that's why I say, at the core this and all games are just that...video games. So, we'll always see funky stuff happening.
    And this is the crux of the issue, when the language between two gamers is different. Not the spoken language, but the gamer language. When you speak to someone coming from a competitive angle, RNG is not something desired by them. They want skill and mechanics to be paramount. They are not playing to replicate what you see on Sunday. They are playing to be better and to win.
    An offline sim player wants to experience Sunday NFL in all its glory. The errors, the drama, all that jazz. So when the languages don't match, the conversation really can't go anywhere. The question is whether both sides recognize the language barrier.
    One game that actually made me raise my eyebrows is F1 2022. The game does an interesting (and good) job of replicating driver error. Whether that's driving off the course, braking too hard / too early, running into the back of you, etc. It really elevates the game for me, and it really adds a fun factor to see this happen when you are not involved.
    That's even harder to accomplish when you're talking about the nuances of football, and the problem for Madden gamers is identifying when it was an intentional "error" by the player vs just bad AI. And we be jaded people.
    I actually kind of think this whole thread is a bit funny. It’s already been confirmed that the gameplay we saw was on “rookie”. Rookie is literally designed so that anyone including a 7 year old can just pick up the game and have fun with it. Of course the coverage isn’t going to be performing up to suitable standards on that difficulty level. To bring in casual gamers they have to have a casual level of difficulty or you risk eliminating that player base out of pure frustration.
    I think everyone is getting a little too excited on this one. I am willing to guarantee not only was it on rookie but it was also set to competitive mode.
    I personally didn’t get to play the beta, as I just got my PS5 a couple of weeks ago, but A lot of the people on this forum who played the beta who’s opinions I respect have said they weren’t experiencing this during the beta. I am willing to take them at their word.
    This obviously wasn’t the best way to showcase gameplay to the OS or sim crowd, but I don’t think that was EA’s goal. If that was EA’s goal they wouldn’t have used tbarrett and wyclef jean of whatever his name is to market this footage.
    I think everyone just needs to settle down and wait until they get their hands on the game to be making assertions like this is the same game we have always been getting, when other footage we have seen online shows that it is not
    If this game is game is in anyway not up to standards I will be the first to dump on EA. I have in the past. But until I get to feel it for myself I am just going to give them the benefit of the doubt. I am still hyped!
    TarHeelPhenom
    Oh, I'm with you. My point was missed blocks are a simulation of what happens in real life football games; and that we Simheads are always talking about sim, until something sim happens that has a negative effect on the experience. As far as your example goes with throwing to your running back over and over and he drops the ball over and over being an issue. There is an instance in this video where Joey Bosa beats the RT for Buffalo on 4 straight plays...it plays out the exact same way with the Tackle reaching out to block Bosa, whiffing, and then falling on his face lol...same exact animation. You don't see that often, but when you do it's kinda cringe worthy. But, that's why I say, at the core this and all games are just that...video games. So, we'll always see funky stuff happening.

    Referencing the Bosa example. You know what you didn’t see… a back being used in protection, a TE lining up on that side to chip or reroute or a double team being used. Also in those clips Bosa got no sacks but applied consistent pressure, much like he would IRL if left one on one. I’m a Steelers fan and last year the Browns left a tackle one on one with TJ all game and it looked basically like what you see in this clip. Sure a different move would be used each play but the outcome (consistent pressure by a SS pass rusher) is the same.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    bapgap
    Nah, the PS2 era is hands down the golden age of Madden and it's not even close. Franchise mode and Superstar mode in Madden 07 still destroys these current games.
    I was really hoping they would honor John Madden and truly give us the best version in years, but I just don't see it (hell, they still can't get refs on the field lol). It's truly sad what EA has done to this franchise ever since the move to the 360/PS3 era.

    Gameplay is currently better.
    EDIT: This is meant to be read in an exasperated voice, not a disrespectful voice, as another user seems to believe I intended disrespect here. That is incorrect. This is exasperation about how anyone could consider that clip realistic or sim.
    ODogg
    Yeah I mean linemen NEVER miss blocks in the real NFL. What the heck is going on with Madden where they sometimes completely whiff?

    Okay, did you even watch the clip that everyone is talking about?
    ODogg
    Its a great point, I was actually arguing with a guy on Twitter the other day who said that if you're controlling a DB and you hit triangle and it's thrown right at you that you should catch it 100% of the time.
    I asked him if he had ever watched the real NFL on Sunday because it's filled with head scratching drops, easy interceptions, by defensive backs.
    He said yeah but this is a game about skill and skill should always be rewarded.
    I guess maybe head to head is a different mindset for some but even for me, if I were a head to head guy, would not want to way that football works to better assist me in my video game prowess.
    It changes it from something resembling the NFL, to something that is simply a game and nothing more.
    Yes a game modeling football should always have dumb mistakes by the AI in it, why? Because in real life people make dumb mistakes.
    I think the thing about that is, it shouldn't be common or prevalent for linemen to miss blocks, especially highly rated ones. So it really boils down to percentages.
    But it really just irks me when I see videos or hear people saying "look at this, this guy missed this block" and present it like evidence that the game is broken. In some cases yes it may be, but in a large part of those complaints, it's the game playing like the game should play to model an imperfect bunch of men playing a game that is often partly chance.
    The irony is that for years I have seen many of those same folks in here complain about passes being too accurate. But yes, incredibly enough there are people who get very angry if their crappy, low rated QB overthrows a receiver.
    I think we all have to decide, do we want a video game or a sort of simulation? Right now it's sort of both but some folks are still trying hard to change it into no real simulation at all and make it simply a videogame.
    I ask because changing things like some as asking for changes this completely away from being a simulation. It already has it's issues with being more game-like than sim-like but it seems for many people they won't stop until it has completely abandoned all pretense of being modeled on the real game of football and instead being a competitive videogame that is nothing like real football.

    Let me elucidate the issue, assuming you didn’t watch the clip in question:
    Never in the history of NFL football has a block been missed LIKE THAT.
    It is NOT that the block was missed. It is the WAY in which it was missed. The center had some 130 degrees of visual field with no defender in his vision except one player. A player which ran right up to him, did an evasion move, and ran passed him. And what did the center do? He stared into space. No attempt to block. No “whiffing.” If that were a real player, the only possible explanations would be he was either deaf and blind or he was on a mind altering psychedelic.
    The miss was as far from football simulation as you can get.
    .
    .
    .
    So when people get up here and argue that people complaining are mad because they want their AI to always win and they want the player they control to always when at a button press, I begin to see why no one gives the game a chance, and why people think this forum is filled with EA simps.
    There. Is. ZERO. Rational. Justification. For. THAT KIND. Of. Miss.
    Because it wasn’t a failure to make a block. It was a failure to simulate football in a grievous and embarrassing manner.
    TarHeelPhenom
    We want SIM until SIM happens I guess lol. It is and always will be a video game.

    You know we all want SIM to happen to the other team.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    reverend_heat
    Which really gets to the heart of the difficulty simulating a videogame, how do you write code to simulate human mental and physical errors that occur in every real NFL game that is played. The honest answer is you can't, at least not without pissing off a lot of people. Especially when an entire subset of your fanbase (Comp/MUT) desire literally ZERO errors to ever occur. Guess what, whiffed blocks happen on basically every drive in every NFL game, let me know when the center ignores a blitzer every single play in Madden and I will pay attention to it.
    Simple answer guy here. I think the word is coding and or animation. Code the game with added animations for whiffs and errors. Like someone already said, don't know if it was missed, it would calm alot of nerves if he attempted an missed. Even went an blocked the wrong guy. Doing nothing is the glaring issue. Especially when ratings should mean diff players act differently. If my 90 plus db drops a pass, cool beans, but then when a low 70s player mosses my elite db etc for a td with no rating seeming to matter, that's when it grows to pissed n frustrated. I just see alot of playing both sides of the fence reading comments so it is what it is.
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    (All the stuff said)

    Wow, I don't think ODogg really deserved that kind of response. Especially since, for as long as I've been coming here, ODogg is one of the more objective and level individuals who have been here over the years.
    That said, maybe the comp mode has something to do with it. The player on defense pressed a button, so the AI player he was doing the move on got a massive awareness drop, perhaps.
    Or perhaps it was just a bug.
    But there is no reasonable argument in which that sequence of events is even remotely close to simulation of football.
    Broncos86
    Wow, I don't think ODogg really deserved that kind of response. Especially since, for as long as I've been coming here, ODogg is one of the more objective and level individuals who have been here over the years.

    What disrespect? I thought I was speaking facts in an exasperated voice, not a disrespectful one.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    What disrespect? I thought I was speaking facts in an exasperated voice, not a disrespectful one.

    "Let me explain it to you, since it is clear you didn’t watch the clip in question:"
    My dude. Come on now.
    Broncos86
    "Let me explain it to you, since it is clear you didn’t watch the clip in question:"
    My dude. Come on now.

    Edited out.
    Now go tell me he isn’t disrespecting every person who took issue with the astoundingly unrealistic missed block.
    GoJags904
    Simple answer guy here. I think the word is coding and or animation. Code the game with added animations for whiffs and errors. Like someone already said, don't know if it was missed, it would calm alot of nerves if he attempted an missed. Even went an blocked the wrong guy. Doing nothing is the glaring issue. Especially when ratings should mean diff players act differently. If my 90 plus db drops a pass, cool beans, but then when a low 70s player mosses my elite db etc for a td with no rating seeming to matter, that's when it grows to pissed n frustrated. I just see alot of playing both sides of the fence reading comments so it is what it is.
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

    There you go. The problem isn’t that some goofy comp kid gets sacked and cries about it, as people are trying to paint the picture as. The problem is that the AI player did not move like a football player playing football. He did nothing. THAT is the problem.
    That wasn’t a whiff, as some people are arguing. In order to whiff at something, you have to ATTEMPT it first.
    Now again, maybe it was a random bug. Maybe it was related to comp mode. But this wasn’t the AI simply whiffing, and it’s INSULTING to try to claim it is—especially if you do as our esteemed member did and claim the people complaining are just mad because they want their AI to win every time (a singularly patronizing and disrespectful argument, but it’s okay for them to do so…).
    This is something that I've been trying to convey for years, which probably is tough to articulate through text.
    I understand the Comp/MUT perspective where they want whatever input they use to 100% be what happens so I'm not referring to that because that's completely different, and also something I do not care for whatsoever.
    I believe that when it comes to "simulation" sports video games, you need a proper balance of what is deemed realistic vs what the user wants to do, with the edge to realism. Taking Madden and it's ratings list for example.
    Awareness.
    This rating alone should be the highest factor in whether or not a player understands what is going on during a play and what he should or shouldn't do. If a C has 50 awareness then plays like that clip should happen. My issue with the clip, which I can't remember if I mentioned in this thread or the other, is that the C looks like he's completely clueless and is just letting the defender right by. Whereas what would be realistic would be if he was sliding and looking to one side of the protection and simply didn't see or take into account a blitzing LB, and then reacts late and whiffs on the block. Madden sometimes LOOKS like players have absolutely no idea what's going on during a play. So you wouldn't necessarily have to program human logic/anticipation etc, you use the ratings that are in the game and create animations and reactions tied to the ratings.
    This also comes down to the core of the game not having football fundamentals programmed into the AI logic as well. As I also mentioned in other threads there are no real DL/OL assignments, they just run forward and then roll dice for who wins or stalemates the interaction.
    H2H users stay in base personnel all game even vs 5 WR empty sets because defensive coverage is directly tied to offensive routes, rather than being it's own entity with reactions based on what's happening on the field. When you put a defender in Man2Man coverage vs a WR running a out and up route on the left hash, but align that defender on the right side of the field at the numbers, at the snap of the ball the defender will literally run to the point where the WR is trying to go. Rather than having the defender sprint across the field to chase and react like he would irl.
    So it's all about how the game looks not about if a player makes a mistake or not. Obviously there will be people like the extremists in MUT that think mistakes should never happen, but if it looked like it made sense then people would be less likely to call it fake. And I feel like that is something you can code easier than creating some true AI system that thinks on their own. Ratings are there for a reason.
    ODogg
    Yeah I mean linemen NEVER miss blocks in the real NFL. What the heck is going on with Madden where they sometimes completely whiff?

    It's one thing for an OL to miss a block/whiff due to poor technique and/or their attention being drawn to another threat based on play design. That's forgivable and explainable when you dive into the x's and o's and possibly the effects of some player ratings/abilities.
    It's another thing entirely for the OL to stand there, frozen with awe, literally staring at a defensive player take a free run at the ballcarrier while in EXCELLENT position to, at the very minimum, ATTEMPT TO impede that player's path to the ballcarrier. That is inexcusable no matter the context because it belies basic, rudimentary football intelligence and common sense.
    Broncos86
    "Let me explain it to you, since it is clear you didn’t watch the clip in question:"
    My dude. Come on now.
    If u think madden has no glaring complainable issues then so be it. Others that do not agree with you also have their lane. You can't cut Into others lane because they aren't driving in yours. That's like cutting off the express lane because you think drivers should go your speed instead of their own. Yes u can argue speed limit, but is that reaaalllly why your upset
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    Man, what would we be talking about if that ONE play didn't happen or we didn't see it. ONE play.
    After all the positivity from the beta from MOST people. I honestly wonder what the big thing would be right now.
    I am in no way saying that play doesn't deserve criticism, it certainly does. But like has been said plenty of times, we need more context.
    Anyway, all I know is my wife will be leaving town to stay with our daughter for a week, on release day, so I'm gonna be throwing red zone slot TDs against cover 3 for a week. :y1:
    Kanobi
    It's one thing for an OL to miss a block/whiff due to poor technique and/or their attention being drawn to another threat based on play design. That's forgivable and explainable when you dive into the x's and o's and possibly the effects of some player ratings/abilities.
    It's another thing entirely for the OL to stand there, frozen with awe, literally staring at a defensive player take a free run at the ballcarrier while in EXCELLENT position to, at the very minimum, ATTEMPT TO impede that player's path to the ballcarrier. That is inexcusable no matter the context because it belies basic, rudimentary football intelligence and common sense.

    Yes. It’s not that the block was missed. It is the WAY in which it was missed. The center was oblivious that THE LITERAL ONLY PLAYER in his field of vision ran up to him and juked him on the way to the QB.
    I mean come on. At least show the center falling on his booty butt.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    Edited out.
    Now go tell me he isn’t disrespecting every person who took issue with the astoundingly unrealistic missed block.

    He made a hyperbolic reply to what has been a hyperbolic discussion revolving around video played using settings that this community doesn't even use (competitive play).
    I remember back during Madden 10, someone was laughing at how unrealistic a play was because the ball carrier was being tackled by like 8 players, and then the guy squirted out of it and ran for a touchdown. People saying how this would NEVER happen in the NFL. Literally a week later, it happened in the NFL.
    We, as a community, love to think we know what the NFL is and looks like. And we expect a small fluctuation within the set parameters of that expectation. But what's more, we tend to really react when something is perceived as outside those parameters.
    The point is that this community spends too much effort having knee-jerk reactions to what we think "never happens in the NFL." And that is my takeway from ODogg, not that he's saying it's perfect, or 100% correct, but that we as a community should sometimes step back on what we consider 100% realistic.
    At the end of the day, we're playing a video game, and weird bugs, inaccurate AI movement, etc are going to happen and has always happened. So I don't know where this sense of zeroing in on one specific moment becomes a need to cry foul because for as long as we've been playing video games this stuff has been the case.
    Progress isn't linear, mistakes happen and we can always require better, but sometimes we gotta chill out on this micro analysis.
    PVarck31
    Man, what would we be talking about if that ONE play didn't happen or we didn't see it. ONE play.
    After all the positivity from the beta from MOST people. I honestly wonder what the big thing would be right now.
    I am in no way saying that play doesn't deserve criticism, it certainly does. But like has been said plenty of times, we need more context.
    Anyway, all I know if my wife will be leaving town to stay with our daughter for a week, on release day, so I'm gonna be throwing red zone slot TDs against cover 3 for a week. :y1:
    The DB coverage was topic number 2 but this one overtook the throne. Critiques to madden are again falling on deaf ears mostly so again. Play the game and since no company is perfect, give EA a pass. I get it, others should just let it go too. Hell we still stuck on issue one because coding erros whiffs db stumble animations an creating separation with cuts and breaks etc to make beating dbs more fluid etc are 2024 talk. Just wait till next year before new issues are brought up
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    PVarck31
    Man, what would we be talking about if that ONE play didn't happen or we didn't see it. ONE play.
    After all the positivity from the beta from MOST people. I honestly wonder what the big thing would be right now.
    I am in no way saying that play doesn't deserve criticism, it certainly does. But like has been said plenty of times, we need more context.
    Anyway, all I know is my wife will be leaving town to stay with our daughter for a week, on release day, so I'm gonna be throwing red zone slot TDs against cover 3 for a week. :y1:

    Not according to some. To some, complaining about how atrocious it looks means that you want your AI players to win every time…
    Yes, the game looks great overall and I will be buying it as soon as my finger is healed enough to play. But unless this was a result of comp play mode, it’s a bad look (really, comp play is anyway, and having the likes of TDBarret be an ambassador for the game was a terrible mistake if you want high Metacritic ratings).
    So maybe it’s because of comp play. Or maybe it’s a random bug. That’s fine. It happens. But let’s not pretend that criticizing it means you are mad because you want your AI players to win every rep. What we want is for the game to look like FOOTBALL. That clip does NOT look like football.
    GoJags904
    The DB coverage was topic number 2 but this one overtook the throne. Critiques to madden are again falling on deaf ears mostly so again. Play the game and since no company is perfect, give EA a pass. I get it, others should just let it go too. Hell we still stuck on issue one because coding erros whiffs db stumble animations an creating separation with cuts and breaks etc to make beating dbs more fluid etc are 2024 talk. Just wait till next year before new issues are brought up
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

    The DBs were improved in that video. People arguing everything sucked are as bad as the people arguing that the “whiff” was realistic (it wasn’t even a whiff tbf).
    Especially the part where in cover three the DBs shaded to the vertical routes. That was a wonderful improvement.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    The DBs were improved in that video. People arguing everything sucked are as bad as the people arguing that the “whiff” was realistic (it wasn’t even a whiff tbf).
    Especially the part where in cover three the DBs shaded to the vertical routes. That was a wonderful improvement.
    I understand and was just referencing a topic brought up about the td in the endzone with db coverage and the S not picking up I think the TE running right at him still stuck in backpedal. More animations is not a winning topic but if it's whiffs and making players look aware but still make mistakes due to ratings then cool. As of now the ratings just show complete dumbness instead of small errors thru animation. I digress tho. Like u said, any complaints or differing opinion, an it's taken into left field. Reminds me of politics lol
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    Broncos86
    He made a hyperbolic reply to what has been a hyperbolic discussion revolving around video played using settings that this community doesn't even use (competitive play).

    Given the context of the discussion, it seems more reasonable to infer that he saw posts about a bad whiff and didn’t know how ugly it was in a football simulation stand point, and was berating people for supposedly wanting sim football and then crying when their simulated AI player gets beat.
    Broncos86

    I remember back during Madden 10, someone was laughing at how unrealistic a play was because the ball carrier was being tackled by like 8 players, and then the guy squirted out of it and ran for a touchdown. People saying how this would NEVER happen in the NFL. Literally a week later, it happened in the NFL.

    I’ll bet you my life savings what we saw in that short clip will NEVER happen in the NFL unless the center is in the middle of a stroke.
    Broncos86

    I d f
    We, as a community, love to think we know what the NFL is and looks like. And we expect a small fluctuation within the set parameters of that expectation. But what's more, we tend to really react when something is perceived as outside those parameters.
    The point is that this community spends too much effort having knee-jerk reactions to what we think "never happens in the NFL." And that is my takeway from ODogg, not that he's saying it's perfect, or 100% correct, but that we as a community should sometimes step back on what we consider 100% realistic.

    If that is his and your argument, then it is quite off-topic. Because it is ABSOLUTELY TRUE that what was shown in that clip WILL ABSOLUTELY NEVER happen in an NFL game. EVER.
    (Unless, again, the player is in the middle of a stroke or some other cognitive episode)
    Broncos86

    At the end of the day, we're playing a video game, and weird bugs, inaccurate AI movement, etc are going to happen and has always happened. So I don't know where this sense of zeroing in on one specific moment becomes a need to cry foul because for as long as we've been playing video games this stuff has been the case.
    Progress isn't linear, mistakes happen and we can always require better, but sometimes we gotta chill out on this micro analysis.

    There. How hard is it to say, “That was probably a weird bug”?
    Instead of something like, you know, “Well you see, missed blocks happen and that missed block is realistic and you’re just mad because you want your AI to win every rep.”
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    Not according to some. To some, complaining about how atrocious it looks means that you want your AI players to win every time…
    Yes, the game looks great overall and I will be buying it as soon as my finger is healed enough to play. But unless this was a result of comp play mode, it’s a bad look (really, comp play is anyway, and having the likes of TDBarret be an ambassador for the game was a terrible mistake if you want high Metacritic ratings).
    So maybe it’s because of comp play. Or maybe it’s a random bug. That’s fine. It happens. But let’s not pretend that criticizing it means you are mad because you want your AI players to win every rep. What we want is for the game to look like FOOTBALL. That clip does NOT look like football.

    Agreed. It deserves to be noticed and EA needs to know about it, and I'm sure they do.
    Now, we can't make assumptions here as far as whether it was bad AI, user error, comp mode, difficulty. So right now I think we just need to wait for the trial to go live and see if this is an issue.
    What would look really cool is if they could find a way to code blown coverage. Because this would be cool if they had an animation of the linebacker moving the wrong direction like he did, but then trying to turn back to cover the slot but getting burned like he did. That would be cool. But like this, it definitely begs answers.
    Maybe this isn't even an issue on sim or all-pro/all Madden. I'm ready just to wait till the trial at this point.
    For me personally, and I understand not everyone is like me, and can do this, but for me, I can let something like this go if it only happens once in a while. I can attribute it to blown coverage in my head and be ok with it. I understand if other can't.
    I'm still really excited for this game. I feel like it's gonna be the best Madden in a long, long time, just from going off the beta.
    EDIT: I didn't look at the blown line play video. And will probably let that one go and not give myself something else to worry about lol.
    PVarck31
    Agreed. It deserves to be noticed and EA needs to know about it, and I'm sure they do.
    Now, we can't make assumptions here as far as whether it was bad AI, user error, comp mode, difficulty. So right now I think we just need to wait for the trial to go live and see if this is an issue.
    What would look really cool is if they could find a way to code blown coverage. Because this would be cool if they had an animation of the linebacker moving the wrong direction like he did, but then trying to turn back to cover the slot but getting burned like he did. That would be cool. But like this, it definitely begs answers.
    Maybe this isn't even an issue on sim or all-pro/all Madden. I'm ready just to wait till the trial at this point.
    For me personally, and I understand not everyone is like me, and can do this, but for me, I can let something like this go if it only happens once in a while. I can attribute it to blown coverage in my head and be ok with it. I understand if other can't.
    I'm still really excited for this game. I feel like it's gonna be the best Madden in a long, long time, just from going off the beta.

    I can let it go as well if it happens once in a while. Because it most likely is just a weird dice roll bug—meaning random chance probably got the most extreme beat as possible in the game.
    As has been said several times, the game looks and feels much better than before, and Franchise is getting some great additions (again).
    What EA Tiburon needs to prioritize I think, in terms of gameplay, is bringing more scripted animations for wins like this. Although I can’t speculate for sure what caused this. But hopefully is a relatively way to fix the issue.
    Then again perhaps fixing it would require tearing down the whole thing. Maybe it’s not so simple as triggering missed block animations every time, especially if the game is not set up for all these interactions to be two man animations.
    PVarck31
    Agreed. It deserves to be noticed and EA needs to know about it, and I'm sure they do.
    Now, we can't make assumptions here as far as whether it was bad AI, user error, comp mode, difficulty. So right now I think we just need to wait for the trial to go live and see if this is an issue.
    What would look really cool is if they could find a way to code blown coverage. Because this would be cool if they had an animation of the linebacker moving the wrong direction like he did, but then trying to turn back to cover the slot but getting burned like he did. That would be cool. But like this, it definitely begs answers.
    Maybe this isn't even an issue on sim or all-pro/all Madden. I'm ready just to wait till the trial at this point.
    For me personally, and I understand not everyone is like me, and can do this, but for me, I can let something like this go if it only happens once in a while. I can attribute it to blown coverage in my head and be ok with it. I understand if other can't.
    I'm still really excited for this game. I feel like it's gonna be the best Madden in a long, long time, just from going off the beta.
    EDIT: I didn't look at the blown line play video. And will probably let that one go and not give myself something else to worry about lol.
    SAME feeling. Let's kick of 2022 with some Madden next Friday and kick ***. Heading to my Jags game today so actually a little upset I can't play it earlier tbh. Everyone should note its not garbage juice and we all just love football to death and want the best for Madden
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    I've been thinking about this, and as a Simhead, I want the game to mimic real life as much as it can. That includes missed blocks, drops, lapses in coverage, taking advantage of matchups when playing User v. Ai etc. But, in order for this to happen and work as best as possible, it's my belief that you have to have adaptable AI. In the example I gave earlier from the video, Nick Bosa was destroying Buffalo's Right Tackle. He whipped him 4 straight plays, and forgetting for a minute that the same animation played out, the fact that it happened 4 plays in a row and the AI did nothing to adapt is what makes having "AI mimicking real life error" nothing more than just another exploit.
    I think it's great that if the User has a wide receiver that's matched up against a weak corner, that he can take advantage of that matchup. But, what we also want to see is the AI recognize that and give help to that corner; or if the Tackle is getting abused by a D-End on the edge, the AI recognizes that and puts a TE on that side or keep a back in to help, max protect etc.
    If the AI can't adapt, then that's where issues come in. Hopefully, that'll be the next step for better AI.
    Momoney168

    There was nothing sim about that “missed block.”
    I put that in quote because it WASN’T actually a missed block. It was a player having a stroke on the field, which is why he didn’t even acknowledge the existence of the only defender in his field of vision.
    .
    .
    .
    You guys seem to be missing the point of why people are mad. It is NOT that a player missed a block! It is that the block was missed in a flagrantly unrealistic way.
    TarHeelPhenom
    I've been thinking about this, and as a Simhead, I want the game to mimic real life as much as it can. That includes missed blocks, drops, lapses in coverage, taking advantage of matchups when playing User v. Ai etc. But, in order for this to happen and work as best as possible, it's my belief that you have to have adaptable AI. In the example I gave earlier from the video, Nick Bosa was destroying Buffalo's Right Tackle. He whipped him 4 straight plays, and forgetting for a minute that the same animation played out, the fact that it happened 4 plays in a row and the AI did nothing to adapt is what makes having "AI mimicking real life error" nothing more than just another exploit.
    I think it's great that if the User has a wide receiver that's matched up against a weak corner, that he can take advantage of that matchup. But, what we also want to see is the AI recognize that and give help to that corner; or if the Tackle is getting abused by a D-End on the edge, the AI recognizes that and puts a TE on that side or keep a back in to help, max protect etc.
    If the AI can't adapt, then that's where issues come in. Hopefully, that'll be the next step for better AI.

    I believe that’s Joey Bosa (I thought it was Chargers v Bills). But I’ve seen Nick Bosa whip a tackle four plays in a row before…
    Anyway wasn’t that a player v player game?
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    I believe that’s Joey Bosa (I thought it was Chargers v Bills). But I’ve seen Nick Bosa whip a tackle four plays in a row before…
    Anyway wasn’t that a player v player game?

    Yes, def Joey Bosa. i get them mixed up. And yeah it was a User v User game. But, even if it was a User v AI, or AI v AI, you don't see the CPU adapt. This isn't an issue exclusive to Madden either. The majority of sports games have this issue.
    TarHeelPhenom
    I've been thinking about this, and as a Simhead, I want the game to mimic real life as much as it can. That includes missed blocks, drops, lapses in coverage, taking advantage of matchups when playing User v. Ai etc. But, in order for this to happen and work as best as possible, it's my belief that you have to have adaptable AI. In the example I gave earlier from the video, Nick Bosa was destroying Buffalo's Right Tackle. He whipped him 4 straight plays, and forgetting for a minute that the same animation played out, the fact that it happened 4 plays in a row and the AI did nothing to adapt is what makes having "AI mimicking real life error" nothing more than just another exploit.
    I think it's great that if the User has a wide receiver that's matched up against a weak corner, that he can take advantage of that matchup. But, what we also want to see is the AI recognize that and give help to that corner; or if the Tackle is getting abused by a D-End on the edge, the AI recognizes that and puts a TE on that side or keep a back in to help, max protect etc.
    If the AI can't adapt, then that's where issues come in. Hopefully, that'll be the next step for better AI.
    Bro, I said this when they mentioned field sense originally before details released. That's what I thought it was until it was told it wasn't. AI awareness has got to move to adaptive soon. I just fear it requires an overhaul that's too daunting or time consuming an EA isn't willing to invest in that currently
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    GoJags904
    Bro, I said this when they mentioned field sense originally before details released. That's what I thought it was until it was told it wasn't. AI awareness has got to move to adaptive soon. I just fear it requires an overhaul that's too daunting or time consuming an EA isn't willing to invest in that currently
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

    That's what I was hoping it was too, although what FieldSENSE is now definitely helps...at least in the Beta it did. But, that's definitely the next big step though in my opinion. I hope they do it.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    There was nothing sim about that “missed block.”
    I put that in quote because it WASN’T actually a missed block. It was a player having a stroke on the field, which is why he didn’t even acknowledge the existence of the only defender in his field of vision.
    .
    .
    .
    You guys seem to be missing the point of why people are mad. It is NOT that a player missed a block! It is that the block was missed in a flagrantly unrealistic way.

    See, I'd want to see the debug log on that. What if the issue isn't that he didn't block but that an animation failed to play that would've had him turn his head to another player, taking his vision away from the LB?
    It is NOT unrealistic for a block like that to get missed where the center snaps the ball and blows an assignment, allowing the Mike to blitz in. However, I am also not willing to to operate under assumptions given that I cannot verify many other elements at play.
    Which is why I'm not going to freak out about it. Too many assumptions to be made to say what it is without having actual data, especially if they're playing on a beta version of the client. With that being the case, there's no way I'm making an assumption. Perhaps it was a good missed block but animations didn't play properly. Perhaps an AI logic tree failed to play out. Too many variables at play for me to consider it.
    Now if we go live and somebody can replicate it and show it happening, then there's a problem.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    There was nothing sim about that “missed block.”
    I put that in quote because it WASN’T actually a missed block. It was a player having a stroke on the field, which is why he didn’t even acknowledge the existence of the only defender in his field of vision.
    .
    .
    .
    You guys seem to be missing the point of why people are mad. It is NOT that a player missed a block! It is that the block was missed in a flagrantly unrealistic way.

    And you missed the point of my sarcasm which wasn’t directed at you or the convo on this missed block anyways.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Broncos86
    See, I'd want to see the debug log on that. What if the issue isn't that he didn't block but that an animation failed to play that would've had him turn his head to another player, taking his vision away from the LB?
    It is NOT unrealistic for a block like that to get missed where the center snaps the ball and blows an assignment, allowing the Mike to blitz in. However, I am also not willing to to operate under assumptions given that I cannot verify many other elements at play.
    Which is why I'm not going to freak out about it. Too many assumptions to be made to say what it is without having actual data, especially if they're playing on a beta version of the client. With that being the case, there's no way I'm making an assumption. Perhaps it was a good missed block but animations didn't play properly. Perhaps an AI logic tree failed to play out. Too many variables at play for me to consider it.
    Now if we go live and somebody can replicate it and show it happening, then there's a problem.

    I was with you until this.
    You show me something that looks like that play in the NFL—where NO ONE is in the center’s field of view and he just stands there as a defender runs right passed him—where it’s not a screen pass, and then give me your PayPal and I’ll send over my life’s savings. Keep in mind: this wasn’t a bang-bang, snap then player runs by. The center has NO ONE in his field of view but the defender and SECONDS after the snap, no attempting to chase him, pull his jersey, etc.
    Now, if you agree it doesn’t look realistic, and then argue we don’t know why it happened, yeah, I’m with you. Any number of flukes could have caused that.
    But saying it’s “not unrealistic” just beggars belief.
    Broncos86
    See, I'd want to see the debug log on that. What if the issue isn't that he didn't block but that an animation failed to play that would've had him turn his head to another player, taking his vision away from the LB?
    It is NOT unrealistic for a block like that to get missed where the center snaps the ball and blows an assignment, allowing the Mike to blitz in. However, I am also not willing to to operate under assumptions given that I cannot verify many other elements at play.
    Which is why I'm not going to freak out about it. Too many assumptions to be made to say what it is without having actual data, especially if they're playing on a beta version of the client. With that being the case, there's no way I'm making an assumption. Perhaps it was a good missed block but animations didn't play properly. Perhaps an AI logic tree failed to play out. Too many variables at play for me to consider it.
    Now if we go live and somebody can replicate it and show it happening, then there's a problem.
    I agree with this logic. My frustration comes from past experiences with seeing how cpu programmers can make the game 1000x better under the hood than EA distributes ootb. It could be alot of diff things so ur right at the end of the day. No one knows and I can calm my nerves even if it's an issue that's not fixed by release. As long as sim mode gives me that beta type action then I can live with it. The learning curve on that alone with new reticle etc., makes this year a fun challenge on the sticks.
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    I was with you until this.
    You show me something that looks like that play in the NFL—where NO ONE is in the center’s field of view and he just stands there as a defender runs right passed him—where it’s not a screen pass, and then give me your PayPal and I’ll send over my life’s savings. Keep in mind: this wasn’t a bang-bang, snap then player runs by. The center has NO ONE in his field of view but the defender and SECONDS after the snap, no attempting to chase him, pull his jersey, etc.
    Now, if you agree it doesn’t look realistic, and then argue we don’t know why it happened, yeah, I’m with you. Any number of flukes could have caused that.
    But saying it’s “not unrealistic” just beggars belief.
    It seems you didn't read his post all the way through.
    Perhaps it was a good missed block but animations didn't play properly. Perhaps an AI logic tree failed to play out. Too many variables at play for me to consider it.
    Now if we go live and somebody can replicate it and show it happening, then there's a problem.

    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    I was with you until this.
    You show me something that looks like that play in the NFL—where NO ONE is in the center’s field of view and he just stands there as a defender runs right passed him—where it’s not a screen pass, and then give me your PayPal and I’ll send over my life’s savings. Keep in mind: this wasn’t a bang-bang, snap then player runs by. The center has NO ONE in his field of view but the defender and SECONDS after the snap, no attempting to chase him, pull his jersey, etc.
    Now, if you agree it doesn’t look realistic, and then argue we don’t know why it happened, yeah, I’m with you. Any number of flukes could have caused that.
    But saying it’s “not unrealistic” just beggars belief.

    You added elements to the argument that I already addressed. I did NOT mention an offensive lineman staring at a linebacker, and I had already discussed the notion that animation may not have played properly. I feel that you either jumped to a conclusion or you're after a specific conclusion regardless of the argument at hand. That is, either someone agrees with you or they are wrong. Perhaps not.
    Either way, re-read what I said and consider that I suggest the idea that an animation may not have played in the video example AND I did not mention vision in my suggestion of a center missing a blitzing LB. I simply said it isn't unrealistic for a scenario to play out that a center could miss the LB with a blown assignment. At no point did I suggest that lineman was looking at the LB.
    canes21
    It seems you didn't read his post all the way through.
    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

    I did actually read the whole post. And it seems contradictory—unless the part I put in bold was just an irrelevant straw-man. In good faith I assumed it wasn’t.
    Broncos86
    You added elements to the argument that I already addressed. I did NOT mention an offensive lineman staring at a linebacker, and I had already discussed the notion that animation may not have played properly. I feel that you either jumped to a conclusion or you're after a specific conclusion regardless of the argument at hand. That is, either someone agrees with you or they are wrong. Perhaps not.
    Either way, re-read what I said and consider that I suggest the idea that an animation may not have played in the video example AND I did not mention vision in my suggestion of a center missing a blitzing LB. I simply said it isn't unrealistic for a scenario to play out that a center could miss the LB with a blown assignment. At no point did I suggest that lineman was looking at the LB.

    So what you’re saying is you first attacked an off-topic straw-man—because NO ONE is arguing centers don’t miss blocks—and then got back to the topic and suggested reasonable explanations for the unrealistic sequence of events.
    My response was as it was because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt as someone who would not use deceptive arguing tactics like building straw-men to tear down, such as the straw-man argument that ANYONE is saying a missed block in and of itself is the issue.
    So, I assume we can all now agree that the way in which the block was missed was unrealistic.
    If so, then we can move on to speculate why it happened, rather than pretend people are upset over REALISTIC missed blocks. I think personally it was just a chance roll of the dice, probably influenced by the game being played in comp mode.
    extremeskins04
    So I don't understand...what does having Competition mode and not Sim mode have anything to do with a top 5 center or ANY center for that matter completely looking clueless and not even trying to block? It's not like the defender even put a spin move or anything on him.
    He just flat out looked lost. It was so bad that it looked like it's a bug in the game or it's just bad code development.

    The amount of excuses & denial is hilarious! These type of issues have been happening in Madden forever! If it was a one off situation people wouldn't be making a big deal about it. The reason people are calling it out is because it's the same poor blocking logic that has been in the game for years! The trenches have been LONG overdue for an overhaul.
    For those who want to ignore the issues & put their Madden rose colored glasses on, that won't give EA the incentive to improve. I understand some are excited for Madden 23 & don't want people raining on their parade with criticism about the game, but we have to be real & stop the excuses. I'm not saying the entire game is trash, but the legacy issues are exhausting at this point.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    So, I assume we can all now agree that the way in which the block was missed was unrealistic.
    If so, then we can move on to speculate why it happened, rather than pretend people are upset over REALISTIC missed blocks. I think personally it was just a chance roll of the dice, probably influenced by the game being played in comp mode.

    Madden 23 Can Not Be Defended With Human Error
    The best explanation of this entire mess. :drink:
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    I did actually read the whole post. And it seems contradictory—unless the part I put in bold was just an irrelevant straw-man. In good faith I assumed it wasn’t.
    Then you clearly misread his post. This whole discussion has devolved into whatever it is now and perhaps all parties need a break from this thread.
    You all are arguing over 1 whole play from an entire game. We have the trial period nearing, so we will see real soon if issues like that 1 play persist or if it was more of a fluke.
    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
    Again people. Let’s keep in mind the games difficulty was set to ROOKIE. If these types of variances are happening on difficulties where these types of variances are not supposed to be happening, then by all means grab the pitchforks.
    We also have to factor in the fact that the two guys playing the game have literally built a following off cheesing the games mechanics. A lot of us won’t be playing with this type of play style.
    We are discussing one piece of footage with so many variables in play, and anticipating this as the end product. If these kind of things are happening k Tuesday say on all-pro or all madden, then yes. We have a problem
    GoJags904
    That just shows that line play wasn't a focus just speed of Defense and pursuit. Line play needs to be the next leap for 2024. It's bad like horrific bad...that was my gripe with the coverage in the beta. Boosting everyone to play faster doesn't fix it just bandaids it. We need ratings to determine who plays faster and who plays slower. Not boost everyone for the sake of boosting. Every team isn't an all Madden roster of 99s
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

    Im not trying to be rude, dont take this personally but this is the kind of sentiment that gets pass rush nerfed every year. The pass rush is fine. the interior pass blocking is what needs to be a little better. Combine that with even a little more push from the dline without so many instasheds and they have it.
    Therebelyell626
    Again people. Let’s keep in mind the games difficulty was set to ROOKIE. If these types of variances are happening on difficulties where these types of variances are not supposed to be happening, then by all means grab the pitchforks.
    We also have to factor in the fact that the two guys playing the game have literally built a following off cheesing the games mechanics. A lot of us won’t be playing with this type of play style.
    We are discussing one piece of footage with so many variables in play, and anticipating this as the end product. If these kind of things are happening k Tuesday say on all-pro or all madden, then yes. We have a problem

    But these types of things have happened on All Pro and All Madden.
    Not sure why people keep trying to lay the blame on the level of play.
    For the past decade you could see that exact type of blocking logic in the game. This isn't the 1st year I've seen that crap in Madden over the years and it's the same exact dumb looking no awareness pass blocking logic.
    EA needs to fix it for once and some people need to quit trying to defend it and blame it on a specific level or mode when it's happened in the past regardless of Level of play or mode.
    BAD CODING plain and simple
    michapop9
    Im not trying to be rude, dont take this personally but this is the kind of sentiment that gets pass rush nerfed every year. The pass rush is fine. the interior pass blocking is what needs to be a little better. Combine that with even a little more push from the dline without so many instasheds and they have it.
    No offense taken and I respectfully don't 100% agree. Line play needs new animations for O and D wins/losses, better head tracking, more "polish" on pulling an picking a threat to attack on O in various situations, better form of the pocket on O, tighter and a twitch faster stunts on D "polish" and that's top of the head.
    We are almost in complete agreement, but fine is not the word I'd used.
    Edit...you actually brought up the point I was trying to get at with W/L animations. Show push, stumbles(some trip up QB if close, some dont), one hand sacks while still engaged, etc. Some of it is already there but needs more life and realism, like the QB tripping on OLmen and falling for a sack. Build around it and make it make sense, a hell of alot more than it does now, and it will be fine and the "speed" of the pass rush would fix itself. Tweak and add from there....results.... Happy people
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    TarHeelPhenom
    I dig this. This is pleasing to the eye as a spectator.

    via GIPHY


    I don't think this play gets enough attention.
    I love that the same center that was Jedi mindtricked by Edmunds in the other clip, goes after him with a vengeance here....almost as if he wants payback for being made a fool of. It's like an organic sub-plot playing out.
    Also, the jump strafe by Edmunds to avoid the 'trash' and fill, reminds me of an animation from NFL 2k5 that I always enjoyed watching on replays.
    Like many have stated, the block malfunction is inarguably bad and needs to be fixed if possible. But there are some good clips as well that hint at Madden making progress on the field.
    Glad I’m my own dude, got mine locked in ready to go for Aug 15th.
    - I really like the new Player Models, esp the big boys, finally look right
    - the undershirts seem to allow other colors, not just black
    - I like seeing the Lob catch-point being deeper towards the end of the trajectory
    Hopefully all the rating thresholds still remain the same, as it will make jumping into tweaking gameplay a lot faster.
    Lastly, if you’re an Offline gamer, don’t forget to save a copy of the OOTB Digital Download to an external drive, that if gameplay is tweaked in a way you don’t like from the 1st Update, you can go back.
    ***If something is updated specifically for Franchise, the work around (playing Franchise with Franchise Updates, but keeping OOTB gameplay) still worked as of M22.
    Broncos86
    This entire thing has blown up into the realm of absurdity. From misused debate terms and more.
    Have fun in here debating, gentlemen.

    Bro, you made a straw man argument by refuting something no one was arguing. That is exactly what a straw man is.
    “A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one.”
    Our argument: “This particular play was unrealistic because the lineman appeared to be oblivious to a player six or seven yards away who was the only man in his field of view, and didn’t even ATTEMPT to block him, let alone miss the block”
    Your straw man : “Missed blocks are realistic therefore your argument is invalid.”
    Given that we weren’t arguing missed blocks in general are not realistic, it’s a straw man.
    I didn't watch the video because I knew what to expect from these guys. It's not for me and it's not how I play the game. I always enjoy coming here and reading everyone's thoughts on it though because it just gives me different views on how people see/want the game to play. Granted most of us here are sim minded so we all want the same thing. Anyways I'm excited about the 16th since I missed the beta and I can get my hands on experience with the game.
    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    Bro, you made a straw man argument by refuting something no one was arguing. That is exactly what a straw man is.
    “A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one.”
    Our argument: “This particular play was unrealistic because the lineman appeared to be oblivious to a player six or seven yards away who was the only man in his field of view, and didn’t even ATTEMPT to block him, let alone miss the block”
    Your straw man : “Missed blocks are realistic therefore your argument is invalid.”
    Given that we weren’t arguing missed blocks in general are not realistic, it’s a straw man.
    I get ur point but that happens more often than not around here. Most criticism is refuted with nonsense aka straw man type logic. U say X, someone says nothing is perfect, ppl make mistakes, etc to shut you up instead of actually digging deeper into the topic. Both sides feel they are right, which is the fun part, then it's wait to see who gives up an says ppl complain too much or don't get football etc. Rinse, repeat....Madden still gets paid until it starts again the next yr.
    It's why alot of posters just stop saying anything at all because constructive criticism is not even comprehended correctly by non ea devs etc but refuted by Joe smo who misses the entire point smh
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    If most criticism is countered with a strawman argument then most of that criticism is overly emotional hyperbole. So is it neither or both?
    It doesn't matter, if we're lucky enough to be playing Madden 10 years from now on new next gen systems, animation/AI glitch like that blocking one will still occasionally happen in every single sports games, so I guess we'll still be having this same argument.
    jfsolo
    If most criticism is countered with a strawman argument then most of that criticism is overly emotional hyperbole. So is it neither or both?
    It doesn't matter, if we're lucky enough to be playing Madden 10 years from now on new next gen systems, animation/AI glitch like that blocking one will still occasionally happen in every single sports games, so I guess we'll still be having this same argument.
    Yea. Just hopefully we'll get some life and immersion thru presentation, team management, etc. I want to feel that same aww man feeling with Madden, like 2k is doing with Jordan challenge. That's what i want in the next 10 years. Give me a strong base game with immersion and then the OL can do the griddy mid play once a game an I'll be happy.
    I won't refute your overly emotional jab. Some poster are and some aren't. Wanting better though and something 10 yrs old being complained about isn't extra to me but to each their own. Just be happy with whateva I guess....EDIT....I'm curious as to if this energy is only for gaming or do ppl feel this way about other things like car purchases? Would they still keep buying knowing 10 yr old issues still plague the new model and talk about the infotainment upgrade or no. Idk
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    This thread just needs to be locked at this point. Madden release is nearing and this thread is proof.
    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
    canes21
    This thread just needs to be locked at this point. Madden release is nearing and this thread is proof.
    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

    I'm just ready to be able to start showing pics and video clips of my own. It will look NOTHING like this video. Trust me lol!
    TarHeelPhenom
    I'm just ready to be able to start showing pics and video clips of my own. It will look NOTHING like this video. Trust me lol!
    Yea lock it. I have pix that show both this and also positive plays as well. It's a bug in the build still but not as exploited as the user made this. Sim play is fine but online h2h, I'll pray for yall
    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    Yes. It’s not that the block was missed. It is the WAY in which it was missed. The center was oblivious that THE LITERAL ONLY PLAYER in his field of vision ran up to him and juked him on the way to the QB.
    I mean come on. At least show the center falling on his booty butt.

    It's a game. Wierd things sometimes happen in games. To be a real issue you'd need to see it consistently, otherwise it's not much of a reason to base much of a decision on but hey you do you!
    Boling4Humor
    This thread man lol. Y’all need to just go and chill.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    Lol yeah. If we could just kinda move on from this now everyone. I don't want to close the thread because it's a news post.
    ODogg
    It's a game. Wierd things sometimes happen in games. To be a real issue you'd need to see it consistently, otherwise it's not much of a reason to base much of a decision on but hey you do you!

    If people would have said that instead of misconstruing the complaint I’d have agreed and moved on.
    PVarck31
    Lol yeah. If we could just kinda move on from this now everyone. I don't want to close the thread because it's a news post.

    Fair.
    Back to topic: still scratching my head about why they had these IT’S YA BOY TDBARRET clowns being ambassadors for the game. I guess they need to throw a bone to the MUT and meme guys. But it still seems like asking for flaws to be shown.
    To their credit, we at least saw the new mechanics in action, but we also learned how they’re going to be exploited.
    Of all this, the one indisputably good thing is how the defensive backs shaded in cover three. That was wonderful.
    ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
    Fair.
    Back to topic: still scratching my head about why they had these IT’S YA BOY TDBARRET clowns being ambassadors for the game. I guess they need to throw a bone to the MUT and meme guys. But it still seems like asking for flaws to be shown.
    To their credit, we at least saw the new mechanics in action, but we also learned how they’re going to be exploited.
    Of all this, the one indisputably good thing is how the defensive backs shaded in cover three. That was wonderful.

    I mean don’t you remember the “Gamechangers”? They use popular streamers who can reach millions of potential buyers as advertisers. They are there to hype up the game, it’s all marketing.
    That center not doing anything is getting all the attention but there was a lot of bad in that video to me. There was an int at the goal line where the defender had to clip through the wr to make the pick. No collision detection, defender ghosts through the wr who had him boxed out to get the ball.
    That long td run with the jukes was another ugly play. The game decides user players are going into a bite on the juke animation no matter what the user input is. I’ve seen it in past Maddens and it’s incredibly annoying.
    Almost every successful pass play was a modified back shoulder throw that looks like you can throw anytime on streaks. The wr will stop on a dime and the defense doesn’t react at all in zone and will continue the route in man. Going to see a lot of that play I guarantee
    There was a lot of ugly in that vid, even completely ignoring the bad blocking logic
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    kjcheezhead
    That center not doing anything is getting all the attention but there was a lot of bad in that video to me. There was an int at the goal line where the defender had to clip through the wr to make the pick. No collision detection, defender ghosts through the wr who had him boxed out to get the ball.
    That long td run with the jukes was another ugly play. The game decides user players are going into a bite on the juke animation no matter what the user input is. I’ve seen it in past Maddens and it’s incredibly annoying.
    Almost every successful pass play was a modified back shoulder throw that looks like you can throw anytime on streaks. The wr will stop on a dime and the defense doesn’t react at all in zone and will continue the route in man. Going to see a lot of that play I guarantee
    There was a lot of ugly in that vid, even completely ignoring the bad blocking logic
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    They're playing a mode(competitive) that values user input over anything else, and on a difficulty level(rookie) that is going to make the AI play incredibly poor.
    We will know more about the game when the trial period begins or when actual user vs cpu videos begin to release. If the issues in this video are persistent then we have major issues that deserve to be talked about. Until then, this video shouldn't be gaining near the steam it has on here.
    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
    canes21
    They're playing a mode(competitive) that values user input over anything else, and on a difficulty level(rookie) that is going to make the AI play incredibly poor.
    We will know more about the game when the trial period begins or when actual user vs cpu videos begin to release. If the issues in this video are persistent then we have major issues that deserve to be talked about. Until then, this video shouldn't be gaining near the steam it has on here.
    Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

    Folks who have a general dislike of how Madden plays will always be able to find a lot of things that they consider bad in any Madden video. They'll be able to find them in the User vs CPU All-Madden videos that come out too. That is just how it is.
    Yep, agree with KJ what the video shows.
    It's evident to me it's a physics/programming issue
    when three players "touch" and the RG loses his DL
    responsibility.
    I also agree with Canes that if this becomes a major issue,
    then we have something to talk a lot about once the game
    is out.
    Let's hope some of these get cleaned up before it's released.
    I have a quick question and might have missed this doing the beta thread.
    With the new passing mechanics is it based on USER skill or QB Ratings?
    I'm hoping it's ratings driven because I don't want to be able to use bad QB's and still be very effective with the new passing system.
    Honestly, All Pro Sim played way better defense than this. Gameplay was much improved from 22. This video is awful and has to be rookie level.

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