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Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

Gridiron Champions

Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

Yesterday on Twitter, the folks at IMV Gaming broke the news that they are planning on releasing the college football game, entitled Gridiron Champions, they have in development in 2020.

We’ve written about Gridiron Champions landing Big Ant as a publisher in August Last year.

Yesterday’s announcement did come with some additional small pieces of news on the title.

The game as of right now promises to be customizable but the ‘how customizable’ seems to still be pretty vague.

You may recall the various lawsuits with the NCAA and the end of college sports games. Without the framework to compensate athletes an with how wide ranging the court decisions were — it is quite unlikely a developer will be able to get away with a customizable game with real names of players and logos being possible.

The outcome of any such case is a bit uncertain, but it probably wouldn’t prevent possible litigation against any such title attempting such a feat — which is a headache for any games developer to deal with.

Regardless of how the customization issue plays out, the rest of the game is promising some pretty solid modes. From something akin to NCAA Football’s old dynasty mode, to a mode that lets you start out in High School as a player — there’s a lot being promised here.

Game Modes

PLAY NOW

Recreate moments, rivalries and matchups from Saturday as you hit the field for a quick game of college football.  Play Now mode pits you in an exhibition game against any opposing team.

LEGACY MODE

Build a dominant college football powerhouse in Gridiron Champion’s Legacy Mode.  Build a small program into a household name from the ground up by recruiting and developing talent to take your program to the next level.  Take a more prominent program and continue its reign of dominance over the world of college football.  Whatever route you choose, be sure to dominate the gridiron and leave a legacy that can’t be forgotten.

PLAYOFF CHASE

Create college football playoff-like scenarios by challenging opponents in Playoff Chase. Playing with up to 4 teams, see if you can advance to the National Championship though a single elimination format. Users will have the ability to expand your playoff experience with up to 16 teams.

GRIDIRON ICON

Gridiron Icon Mode in Gridiron Champions™ puts you in the shoes of a college star student-athlete. Your journey will begin in high school. Our team plans to implement a deep storyline into the game mode. Your Icon will be faced with many difficult decisions that will have rewards and consequences. Balance the workload of practice drills, film-study, & homework to prove your value on and off the college gridiron. You will be able to use your Gridiron Coins to update attributes, purchase rare accessories and more. Are you ready to be the next Gridiron Icon?

Final Analysis

Gridiron Champions is an exciting title that’ll have a lot to live up to in many folks eyes, but everyone at IMV seems ready to take on those lofty expectations when the game releases on the Playstation, Xbox, and Steam platforms in 2020.

We’ll be here following the title every step of the way until then!

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Discussion
  1. I'm fine with this being fictional schools as long as it plays well and the Dynasty Mode is what I want in a college game. It is going to be hard to pull that off though. I did back them early on so I'll have a copy either way.
    But while I'm excited for their effort, I'm very cautiously optimistic. I didn't mind supporting their efforts since I wanted some form of College football game. I still am happy I did and that this appears to be actually happening.
    You may recall the various lawsuits with the NCAA and the end of college sports games. Without the framework to compensate athletes an with how wide ranging the court decisions were — it is quite unlikely a developer will be able to get away with a customizable game with real names of players and logos being possible.

    Pretty sure the reason that EA got in trouble with the NCAA was because they were legitimately ripping off player likenesses in the release version of their games. For example, they actually had a #15 QB for Florida who was exactly like Tim Tebow in every way. The same thing happened with Ed O'Bannon on a UCLA All-Time team. It had nothing to do with the player editor. If it did then NBA 2k would be getting sued by Charles Barkley for all the times he's been created by users, the same goes with all the college teams that have been made. I don't see why this game can't have full customization as long as nobody is making any money off of what the users create.
    BA2929
    Pretty sure the reason that EA got in trouble with the NCAA was because they were legitimately ripping off player likenesses in the release version of their games. For example, they actually had a #15 QB for Florida who was exactly like Tim Tebow in every way. The same thing happened with Ed O'Bannon on a UCLA All-Time team. It had nothing to do with the player editor. If it did then NBA 2k would be getting sued by Charles Barkley for all the times he's been created by users, the same goes with all the college teams that have been made. I don't see why this game can't have full customization as long as nobody is making any money off of what the users create.

    https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/7/21/9009843/ncaa-basketball-video-game-2k-sports-nba
    This was as of 2k16, I don't know how many more licenses 2k has paid for:
    A records search with the Collegiate Licensing Company found 2K Sports has a license to make video games for the following schools: Arizona, Arizona State, Connecticut, Georgetown, Kansas, Louisville, Michigan, Texas, UCLA, Villanova and Wisconsin. These programs have been confirmed.
    Darren Rovell

    @darrenrovell
    2K has indeed gotten the licenses to at least 10 college teams & will have college basketball.
    That is the reason why, the licenses have been bought and paid for.
    So, that debunks that theory.
    It doesn't debunk anything, Axis football does not have an NCAA license and you can download every college team. They were created by the fans and I haven't seen any problems for them.
    jahswill
    It doesn't debunk anything, Axis football does not have an NCAA license and you can download every college team. They were created by the fans and I haven't seen any problems for them.

    It debunks the theory regarding 2k, which is what I was responding to. All I am saying on that is people can't go around claiming 2k get's away with it, so, anyone else can.
    Plus, we don't know if the NCAA has their eyes on Axis or not now or in the future.
    jahswill
    It doesn't debunk anything, Axis football does not have an NCAA license and you can download every college team. They were created by the fans and I haven't seen any problems for them.

    Security in obscurity.
    roadman
    It debunks the theory regarding 2k, which is what I was responding to. All I am saying on that is people can't go around claiming 2k get's away with it, so, anyone else can.
    Plus, we don't know if the NCAA has their eyes on Axis or not now or in the future.

    2K used those licensed schools as part of their in box game, with their career mode. They aren't user created teams. They're directly profiting off of their inclusion, and representing them with the actual likeness of the institution. That's not the same thing.
    jyod21
    2K used those licensed schools as part of their in box game, with their career mode. They aren't user created teams. They're directly profiting off of their inclusion, and representing them with the actual likeness of the institution. That's not the same thing.

    That is a good point, too, all I was responding to was that 2k has college teams in their game and they paid for it.
    I can't wait to see how this all plays out.
    I too "Invested" early on and will be receiving a copy..I would like to be able to see these community mods be able to work in the real school names if not logos as well... For me, there is no better immersion into a dynasty in NCAA than being as true to life with every aspect from the stadiums, to conferences, and styles of play for individual teams... This being said, looks like my 360 will continue to get a workout until 2020.
    Hoping for great things...
    the great news is that I gonna be on pc so we gonna probably get tons of mods for the game to make the game with official NCAA even maybe the official stadiums as happened with old FIFA  and pes
    I don't believe there would be complications (other than cost) with licensing the actual colleges/logos. That should be easy. It is the players that cannot be legally used (or licensed for use) at this point. And, for me, that's fine. I'd be playing dynasty, so there would be fictional players taking over my universe in a couple seasons anyway.
    I know some folks are very skeptical of this game, and with very good reasons. I "invested" in the game only for the shot at a college game. Am I expecting greatness with their first effort? No. Could I end up being pleasantly surprised? Of course.
    But my reason for support was more about helping a vision and the hope of a college football game of some form. I started playing in the Bill Walsh days. Having a license is great but isn't as important to me. While I love the idea of the customization they are promising, I also won't have a problem playing the game with 100 percent fictional teams.
    It stands within reason that this game will be noticed by the "big boys" of EA, 2K, etc. If they pull it off and have even moderate success, it could get things moving back in the right direction. Who knows? I always thought a generic "College Football USA" mode could work. And that's why I supported them.
    I do understand anyone who didn't. And I honestly can't blame them. The support was on a chance that was indeed a long shot. But for now at least it looks as if we might get a college football game, even a generic one. And maybe after that a college basketball game.
    To me it was important to support this startup because it could lead to things the big boys would never consider or dropped very quickly in the past. Maybe we'll see college baseball return. Maybe they'll be successful enough to go that route. Maybe the longtime dream I've had of a high school football game could become a reality. Maybe a fantasy pro game. (Non-NFL, NBA, MLB) Who knows what a successful launch for this title could mean.
    I know sports gaming use to be huge with several different titles dedicated to the same league no less. I miss those days. I don't think we'll ever get back to them. But if my giving a little bit to a couple of guys to help move the needle leads to just a fun college football game, I'll be happy with my "investment."
    And you should be, Scoop.
    I don't know anyone who wouldn't stand behind your own personal investment.
    I wish these guys well and would like to see what's in store from here on out.
    roadman
    And you should be, Scoop.
    I don't know anyone who wouldn't stand behind your own personal investment.
    I wish these guys well and would like to see what's in store from here on out.

    Thanks, Roadman. Us Packer Fans usually stick together!
    There is no way that allowing customization is  an issue.  If it is than the system is biased horribly. PES allows PS4 and PC players the ability to have all the licensed everything that EA pays to have in FIFA with editing options. Big ant who is doing this game has the ability to recreate all  the players and teams in Casey Powell lacrosse.  
    Everything i I read about the situation was EA was putting in QB numbers  and the player likenesses with exact heights , weights , even looks and it was all just to similar .   I cant  imagine  that you have the ability to sue someone for putting in a“creation suite”  in a game.  That’s dangerously close to censorship  and freedom of speech  issues. 
    CujoMatty
    There is no way that allowing customization is *an issue. *If it is than the system is biased horribly. PES allows PS4 and PC players the ability to have all the licensed everything that EA pays to have in FIFA with editing options. Big ant who is doing this game has the ability to recreate all *the players and teams in Casey Powell lacrosse. *
    Everything i I read about the situation was EA was putting in QB numbers *and the player likenesses with exact heights , weights , even looks and it was all just to similar . * I cant *imagine *that you have the ability to sue someone for putting in a“creation suite” *in a game. *That’s dangerously close to censorship *and freedom of speech *issues.*

    This might be something to consider:
    Axis Football has had people create mods which aren't illegal with actual NCAA teams and logos. Axis Football hasn't been sued, even Ryan Moody talks about it in a new video showing it can be done with actual licenses and logos. The issue would rise IF the game came released with actual logos and licenses without permission. Creating Mods that contain actual NCAA football licenses and logos can be done without legal ramifications as it's been done with Axis Football.
    Once they start development and have something, take it to the NCAA and see if they could get their license for the game before it comes out. If they were able to take something and try to convince the NCAA to be on board then maybe by 2020 we could have a fully licensed game.
    Answer:
    So this is actually wrong and I'll explain why. The first thing you have to understand is the fact someone hasn't been sued doesn't mean they can't be sued. In one sense there is security in obscurity, meaning Axis isn't big enough to even care to send a cease and desist letter to at it's current size. One thing to not though is they have said the customization won't be coming to the consoles most likely, this is probably due to the eyes that will now be on it and the legal tight rope they are walking.
    The next issue is whats called contributory infringement. One of the ideas behind contributory infringement is the idea that through your actions or in this case product you are contributing to the infringement of IP by others. One of the defenses to this is that what you provide was not intended to be used that way and that you had no knowledge, and reasonably couldn't know, that it was being used in this way. While Axis probably would lose if they were ever sued, because at this point they should know, IMV will lose for sure because their ownership has stated they intend for it to be used that way.
    Now they have already started backing off that concept in recent tweets (Community can just put all the IP in), but the issue here is you can't disassociate yourself from those statements down the line. If they get to a console with eyes on them and are facilitating the infringement what most likely happens is they get a cease and desist letter telling them to remove all trademarks and logos from their upload manager. If they fail to comply they will be sued and they will lose and lose big as they can be held liable for each and every individual case of the infringement meaning those penalties would stack up quickly.
    Frankly my biggest concern with the company is they lack the legal war chest to operate in such a legally questionable area. If they really are doing an IPO then they will have to release an investor prospectus. I'd like to see the companies official position on this as far as potential threats to the business and how they plan to navigate it. If they don't even mention it as a potential threat to the business then these guys are delusional.
    CujoMatty
    There is no way that allowing customization is *an issue. *If it is than the system is biased horribly. PES allows PS4 and PC players the ability to have all the licensed everything that EA pays to have in FIFA with editing options. Big ant who is doing this game has the ability to recreate all *the players and teams in Casey Powell lacrosse. *
    Everything i I read about the situation was EA was putting in QB numbers *and the player likenesses with exact heights , weights , even looks and it was all just to similar . * I cant *imagine *that you have the ability to sue someone for putting in a“creation suite” *in a game. *That’s dangerously close to censorship *and freedom of speech *issues.*

    What’s always lost and it was mentioned in another thread is anyone sue anyone for anything.
    There is no such thing as “you can’t sue for that.”
    It’s a question of getting a firm to agree to do it for you.
    In the case of customization there is so much grey area now that it wouldn’t be shocking to see such a lawsuit happen no matter how frivolous it seems to you and I.
    I'm not going to get my hopes up too high. I really want a college football game. I honestly don't even care if the players names themselves can be edited, its the teams, uniforms, conferences, logos, playoff setup, ect thats important to me.
    If they create a system that's user friendly and robust, then I'll spend untold hours messing around and creating my own college football universe just the way I want it. In that way, its plausible that I'll be happier with this game than I ever was with NCAA.
    What I want is to create a 72 team college football world, with eight conferences of 9 teams. 8 conference champions and 8 wild cards make the playoffs. If I can do that, and it has a good recruitment system, then its gold.
    Time will tell.
    I see what you guys are saying and I’m well aware that anyone can sue anyone for anything if a lawyer will take it on but my point was you’re not gonna win. If you sue someone for putting in a creation option, you’re not gonna win.  I don’t care what the developers intent is because unless the developers are complete morons  they put in a disclaimer that it isn’t to be used for copyright or licence infringement and  liability is passed on to the user. Just like pretty much every internet service that facilitates infringement has been getting away with. 
    In the obannon case  the Athletes were rewarded money based on the number of years they appeared in the game from 2004 to 2013 and some got more than others. It was all based on likeness. Then it spiraled into the NCAA basically looking like they were running sweat shops and ripping off the athletes.  EA was sued by the athletes . They won because they could prove their likeness was used. 
    In no no way shape or form does that involve or even hint at the possibilities of what users can create ever being  an issue  PES knows a million percent what they are facilitating  but quite frankly it’s not their problem. They don’t distribute store or handle the user content in any form and that’s exactly what  any game should  do. It’s exactly how all these video streaming and music sharing  services skirt liability. 
    the problem with NCAA is that no one wants to touch it with a ten foot pole right now because the cost of defending yourself far outweighs the  potential profits in an unlicensed sports game.   A company like axis is a perfect vessel for this though. the potential to be sued is far less because the cost of suing someone is also very high. and even if you go after lawyer fees from a company like axis or even big ant it’s getting blood from a stone so why bother. I think it’s a risk worth taking if you’re in Axis shoes.
    CujoMatty
    I see what you guys are saying and I’m well aware that anyone can sue anyone for anything if a lawyer will take it on but my point was you’re not gonna win. If you sue someone for putting in a creation option, you’re not gonna win. *I don’t care what the developers intent is because unless the developers are complete morons *they put in a disclaimer that it isn’t to be used for copyright or licence infringement and *liability is passed on to the user. Just like pretty much every internet service that facilitates infringement has been getting away with.*

    This is resoundingly false. The liability does not get passed, it actually gets shared through contributory infringement as well as vicarious liability. You say you don't care about their intent, but this is actually part of contributory infringement. The safe harbor statement doesn't dissolve their liability unless they actively monitor their system and remove all attempts to infringe, or make a good faith effort to.
    People keep confusing the fact others have done it and not been sued with the idea that it is legal. Napster literally got taken down for the same thing, they had a system that facilitated in the infringement of IP but they actually had better defense. Napster's software was not designed with the idea to steal music but rather to easily share files peer to peer. IMV has an issue in that their proposed customization component was expressly created to allow their users to infringe on protected IP, this all from the company's official twitter account to boot.
    As I have pointed out in other places, others get away with it because they are allowed to not because it's legal. When all these games get to the consoles there will be issues because more eyes end up on it. A 2k is more likely to weather a legal onslaught because they have lawyers on staff that can handle the cease and desists and go back and forth buying them time. 2k also has the advantage that their customization was not built for the stated purpose of infringement, it is a by product of the system. These smaller studios don't have the legal war chest to handle even a few legal challenges, and they don't have good legal footing to stand on even if they wanted to.
    So, for you guys talking about the legal issues:
    If this company, or anyone else, put out "Generic College Football 2020", and includes zero real schools, zero real logos, and of course zero real players, but allows the user to edit anything that they want and then share it, are they then free and clear, or is that still an issue?
    Trying to make heads or tails of the debate on this.
    Unlucky 13
    So, for you guys talking about the legal issues:
    If this company, or anyone else, put out "Generic College Football 2020", and includes zero real schools, zero real logos, and of course zero real players, but allows the user to edit anything that they want and then share it, are they then free and clear, or is that still an issue?
    Trying to make heads or tails of the debate on this.

    That is the the whole issue. If a team put out a college football game with zero real anything and no way to add real logos or team IP (this is the bigger issue than the players) they would be fine. The issue is building a business model that's main focus is to support infringement. Again, the whole idea of contributory infringement is the idea that you knowingly, or had good reason to know, your product or service was facilitating infringement by others. People who claim you can safe harbor away liability by saying on the game "don't do it" are wrong. Safe Harbor statements are only relevant if the provider makes a good faith effort to remove and or stop the infringing activity which is counter intuitive to their business model.
    My guess is they will go towards an in game team/ logo creator that doesn't allow for uploading so they can avoid these legal issues when it is all said and done. They won't be able to claim ignorance to the infringement based on their own customer interactions. Normally, the best defense to this is being able to say you had no way to know your system was being used for this, but in this case it was designed with this in mind and there are statements out in the public domain to prove it.
    It's interesting that there is all this back and forth about customization, infringement, and such when the likelihood of their actually being a playable game to apply these issues to seems exceedingly low.
    jfsolo
    It's interesting that there is all this back and forth about customization, infringement, and such when the likelihood of their actually being a playable game to apply these issues to seems exceedingly low.

    That is true. To me the lack of foresight on the legal front is one of the main red flags to me that tells me the guys running this thing don't have the business know how to pull it off.
    T4VERTS
    This is resoundingly false. The liability does not get passed, it actually gets shared through contributory infringement as well as vicarious liability. You say you don't care about their intent, but this is actually part of contributory infringement. The safe harbor statement doesn't dissolve their liability unless they actively monitor their system and remove all attempts to infringe, or make a good faith effort to.
    People keep confusing the fact others have done it and not been sued with the idea that it is legal. Napster literally got taken down for the same thing, they had a system that facilitated in the infringement of IP but they actually had better defense. Napster's software was not designed with the idea to steal music but rather to easily share files peer to peer. IMV has an issue in that their proposed customization component was expressly created to allow their users to infringe on protected IP, this all from the company's official twitter account to boot.
    As I have pointed out in other places, others get away with it because they are allowed to not because it's legal. When all these games get to the consoles there will be issues because more eyes end up on it. A 2k is more likely to weather a legal onslaught because they have lawyers on staff that can handle the cease and desists and go back and forth buying them time. 2k also has the advantage that their customization was not built for the stated purpose of infringement, it is a by product of the system. These smaller studios don't have the legal war chest to handle even a few legal challenges, and they don't have good legal footing to stand on even if they wanted to.

    You clearly know what you’re talking about I can’t dispute that. There is zero precedence when it comes to video games and creation options. I have never heard of a case being heard for it but maybe I’m wrong. What you’re saying legally is very hard to prove but maybe tweets saying the customization would be used for infringement is enough but I still find it very unlikely. The fact is there are so many games that are doing exactly what this game is saying they will do. Iit seems to me that people are genuinely concerned that for some reason anytime anyone mentions NCAA and video game that it won’t happen because the developers will get sued into the Stone Age. The basis for that seems to be based on what happened to EA but it’s completely apples and oranges.
    CujoMatty
    You clearly know what you’re talking about I can’t dispute that. There is zero precedence when it comes to video games and creation options. I have never heard of a case being heard for it but maybe I’m wrong. What you’re saying legally is very hard to prove but maybe tweets saying the customization would be used for infringement is enough but I still find it very unlikely. The fact is there are so many games that are doing exactly what this game is saying they will do. Iit seems to me that people are genuinely concerned that for some reason anytime anyone mentions NCAA and video game that it won’t happen because the developers will get sued into the Stone Age. The basis for that seems to be based on what happened to EA but it’s completely apples and oranges.

    You really don't need precedent that is related to video games here. It is a pretty cut and dry example of vicarious liability as well as Contributory infringement. As for tweets being enough to prove it, they don't even have to prove intent in reality, but they can with what has been put into the public domain along with what they would find in discovery searching communications between the founders as well as their community reps. Contributory infringement doesn't even require the offender to know they infringed just have to show that they should know it is being used for it, which the company obviously does.
    I am not using what happened to EA at all here, that is actually one of the fallacies going on right now with people thinking they are legally okay. EA had a license of schools and NCAA logos, which are owned by far more powerful organizations than player likeness. EA was taken out by the least powerful player in this whole thing. IMV and similar people are going after the IP owners that have the legal means to really do damage (NCAA/ Schools).
    In reality what is happening is people are willing to screw over people's intellectual property to get what they want, in this case a college football game.
    CujoMatty
    You clearly know what you’re talking about I can’t dispute that. There is zero precedence when it comes to video games and creation options. I have never heard of a case being heard for it but maybe I’m wrong. What you’re saying legally is very hard to prove but maybe tweets saying the customization would be used for infringement is enough but I still find it very unlikely. The fact is there are so many games that are doing exactly what this game is saying they will do. Iit seems to me that people are genuinely concerned that for some reason anytime anyone mentions NCAA and video game that it won’t happen because the developers will get sued into the Stone Age. The basis for that seems to be based on what happened to EA but it’s completely apples and oranges.

    I don't think anyone's opinion on this is anymore valid than anyone else's, including yours, so don't defer. You make good points that have been made time and again, with some historic evidence that backs it up. At the end of the day what matters most is that other games have been able to get away with customization, for whatever reason and it would be great if more football games going forward were able to accomplish the same thing.
    Big FN Deal
    I don't think anyone's opinion on this is anymore valid than anyone else's, including yours, so don't defer. You make good points that have been made time and again, with some historic evidence that backs it up. At the end of the day what matters most is that other games have been able to get away with customization, for whatever reason and it would be great if more football games going forward were able to accomplish the same thing.

    METRO-GOLDWYN-MAYER STUDIOS INC. et al. v. GROKSTER, LTD., et al.
    That is case law that shows why it is illegal if you'd like to learn. Again, because no one has gone down for it yet in this arena doesn't mean they won't. Security in obscurity exists in a lot of these cases. Other guys did it too is not a legal defense when someone goes down for it finally.
    So, what if they were to put a game out that allows the user to edit and create anything that they wish, but with no online aspect and no ability to share with others? Basically, taking it back to the early PS2 days. Would that be viable?
    Unlucky 13
    So, what if they were to put a game out that allows the user to edit and create anything that they wish, but with no online aspect and no ability to share with others? Basically, taking it back to the early PS2 days. Would that be viable?

    It is more likely to be viable but still inside the scope of legal issues. It would be harder to prove damages in this instance because with no data to back up how many actually used it for such a purpose you could get a similar outcome to Sony v Universal. Basically in that case Universal made a claim that the whole idea of home recording, Sony Betamax, was infringing on their copyrights. The courts found that because many people used it for time warping, and that was a reasonable use, that the infringement was an allowable occurrence as it wasn't the primary function of the Betamax.
    In this case IMV could claim that most people don't use the customization to do that, but rather to add themselves into games and such. Short of them finding information in discovery where the insinuate they know that isn't the case, or they have correspondence with others pointing out they know it is a major use of their system then it would be tough to prove. Now with that said, that is where their earlier public comments about being able to just load up team logos and such would be an issue but not necessarily insurmountable without data to back up how pervasive that use actually was.
    *Just to reiterate I am not a lawyer, I just deal with this kind of stuff in what I do for a living so I have read a lot of case law as it relates to copyrights, trademarks, patents, etc.
    It's worth noting that video game companies have shown previous awareness of the legal ramifications of user-generated content and its potential for widespread intellectual property rights violations.
    Most relevant to Gridiron Champions, which is seeking a PC release on Steam: Steam's Subscriber Agreement specifically calls out user-generated content (for Steam Workshop). The user must agree that he has the rights to use any intellectual property included in a Steam Workshop file he submits to the service (Section 6 point D). By itself this language doesn't prevent users from uploading stuff that infringes on IP rights - I can go download a McDonald's for Cities: Skylines right now - but it's very clearly a violation of Steam's terms of service to infringe on third-party IP rights. To this end, that IMV is so openly advertising that their game will allow users to infringe on third-party IP rights and encouraging them to do so probably isn't going to sit well with Valve.
    Some other examples of video game companies policing or controlling UGC:
    2K Sports has a history of removing user-generated content from NBA 2K18 which infringes on third-party IP rights.
    EA Sports did not include file sharing functionality for custom fighters in EA Sports UFC due to concerns over potential intellectual property rights and trademark infringements.
    What you just said CM hooe is my point. Steam puts the liability on the user and the user is violating the terms of service. But you can still download the violating files. Give me all the legal jargon in the world but McDonald’s isn’t suing anyone, could they? According to our legal contributor the answer is a resounding yes. Quite frankly I believe that but It’s just simply not very likely. IMO.  Why I only read about this whenever NCAA games are brought up makes zero sense to me. OOTP has add on central. PES is the worst offender. MLB the Show you can make player likeness  and share in the vault that has been proven by the Obannon case to be a no no.  All big ant sports games. That’s only a few. So I guess we could argue for days of whether or not there could be liability issues but I’m just not seeing it.  I
    ill let it go now and honestly I did learn some things from this so thanks for the discussion.
    I think a key difference here is that, unlike McDonald's, the NFL, NCAA, and groups representing football and basketball players each separately have established track records of pursuing litigation to protect their intellectual property. The NFL in particular is especially litigious.
    You're right, however, that in order for the law to matter in practice, the infringed party must be aware of the violation at all and also care enough about the violation to pursue legal action. That's what T4Verts is getting at with the "security in obscurity" comment.
    CujoMatty
    What you just said CM hooe is my point. Steam puts the liability on the user and the user is violating the terms of service. But you can still download the violating files. Give me all the legal jargon in the world but McDonald’s isn’t suing anyone, could they? According to our legal contributor the answer is a resounding yes. Quite frankly I believe that but It’s just simply not very likely. IMO. *Why I only read about this whenever NCAA games are brought up makes zero sense to me. OOTP has add on central. PES is the worst offender. MLB the Show you can make player likeness *and share in the vault that has been proven by the Obannon case to be a no no. *All big ant sports games. That’s only a few. So I guess we could argue for days of whether or not there could be liability issues but I’m just not seeing it. *I
    ill let it go now and honestly I did learn some things from this so thanks for the discussion.

    McDonalds COULD sue anybody and everybody who uses their IP. But they don't due to not knowing about it, to put it simply, like T4VERTS said. Then it all comes down to whether you (company whose rights are being infringed upon) think it's worthwhile or not. Think of it like these tattoo in video games cases. For the artist it's worthwhile because they probably aren't raking in the dough everyday. So a couple hundred thousand dollars is worthwhile to them. But for McDonalds a 2.666 billion dollar company is it worthwhile for them to waste months or years in court to gain an extra 200K or what the damage payout would be?
    CujoMatty
    What you just said CM hooe is my point. Steam puts the liability on the user and the user is violating the terms of service. But you can still download the violating files. Give me all the legal jargon in the world but McDonald’s isn’t suing anyone, could they? According to our legal contributor the answer is a resounding yes. Quite frankly I believe that but It’s just simply not very likely. IMO. *Why I only read about this whenever NCAA games are brought up makes zero sense to me. OOTP has add on central. PES is the worst offender. MLB the Show you can make player likeness *and share in the vault that has been proven by the Obannon case to be a no no. *All big ant sports games. That’s only a few. So I guess we could argue for days of whether or not there could be liability issues but I’m just not seeing it. *I
    ill let it go now and honestly I did learn some things from this so thanks for the discussion.

    Biggest differentiation comes down to the Napster case.They question that is asked will be "what is the overwhelming use of the function for?". In most those cases it has a legit non infringing use, IMV has positioned there customization function for the purpose of skirting copyright laws. That is there downfall.
    It is a complex issue with multiple prongs to it, but to put it simply there are really a lot of reasons why this is different than other instance. As I said earlier though, this is more of an example of why I don't think it'll ever be made more so than what will happen if they do really is moot. Their release about funding is misleading in itself because all it really days is they got a company who thinks they can help them raise 10 million not that they have or are close at all to doing so. This look a lot like what you see from pink sheet stocks, lots of PR's about plans but little to show.
    I'm definitely intrigued by the game, but I'm not going to get myself overly excited. At this point we've seen some screenshots, but we don't know much more about the game. We've all grown accustomed to the EA NCAA series and all the memories it brought, but this is a completely different game and has no affiliation whatsoever to that series. Having a college football game again sounds great, but we really don't know what we are getting. I will feel better once we starting getting more info and game play footage. Until then I'm going to try to keep an even keel mindset about the game and hope for the best.
    So, wait. Is it technically illegal for me to spend all my own time using a system to recreate the real world of college football from scratch, if I so see fit?
    For my own personal use and enjoyment, sharing it with no one?
    Unlucky 13
    So, wait. Is it technically illegal for me to spend all my own time using a system to recreate the real world of college football from scratch, if I so see fit?
    For my own personal use and enjoyment, sharing it with no one?

    There are others that can speak much more to this than I can but I believe the most important trigger in copyright infringement is tied to profit.
    So if you are utilizing tools you purchased to re-create a copyrighted material for you own personal use, you are safe but the entity you purchased those tools from could be at risk.
    If you then turn around and use your creation and use it to make a profit of any sort, you would then expose yourself.
    Again, this is just my very, very, very basic understanding of it and there are others who can better speak to it.
    But if I take a piece of paper out and draw a picture of my favorite NFL team to hang on my wall, I think I'm safe from any form of litigation.
    Unlucky 13
    So, wait. Is it technically illegal for me to spend all my own time using a system to recreate the real world of college football from scratch, if I so see fit?
    For my own personal use and enjoyment, sharing it with no one?

    Did you use trademarked logos for jerseys, stadiums, etc? If so, then technically yes as you did not pay to use them. It's easy to think you'd need to profit from it but in reality by stealing their IP you are avoiding paying them for your own personal use. This is kind of the crux of their infringement with the customization. The are making money by providing you with the means to commit infringement.
    I think one of the biggest questions is will this game be big enough for the NCAA to even go after. For one, I think they are currently watching this game with a very curious eye. And I don't think that curious eye is for a lawsuit, but more for a way to get back in the Video game world. If a game without a license is truly successful, I can see them wanting to get the license back out there, either with these guys or someone else.
    I also see EA watching as they consider going generic route and decided against it. I get a lot of the discussion about a legal gray area and don't disagree with some of what has been said. But what it really comes down to is if the NCAA views them as a threat to their money or not. If they don't, they might just be willing to let things go without much a care. If they do, a lawsuit will happen and then things get interesting.
    thescoop
    I think one of the biggest questions is will this game be big enough for the NCAA to even go after. For one, I think they are currently watching this game with a very curious eye. And I don't think that curious eye is for a lawsuit, but more for a way to get back in the Video game world. If a game without a license is truly successful, I can see them wanting to get the license back out there, either with these guys or someone else.
    I also see EA watching as they consider going generic route and decided against it. I get a lot of the discussion about a legal gray area and don't disagree with some of what has been said. But what it really comes down to is if the NCAA views them as a threat to their money or not. If they don't, they might just be willing to let things go without much a care. If they do, a lawsuit will happen and then things get interesting.

    Here is the problem with trademarks and copyrights, if you don't vigorously defend your IP you actually lose it into the public domain, which has happened many times in history. If they know about it (NCAA/School) they will defend their IP and follow the proper steps of cease and desist followed by suit if not remedied.
    T4VERTS
    Here is the problem with trademarks and copyrights, if you don't vigorously defend your IP you actually lose it into the public domain, which has happened many times in history. If they know about it (NCAA/School) they will defend their IP and follow the proper steps of cease and desist followed by suit if not remedied.

    I don't see this being the case here though at all. I get what you're saying, but this isn't a case of them "stealing" their IP. Now, if they want to sue and make it a stink they could. But I also am not sure they need to do so to "defend their IP."
    One of my friends is a corp lawyer. He said he doesn't view this to be a huge issue unless it is proven they are using the trademarks to make money. But he did say he'd have to look more into it but wasn't sure it would be large enough for the NCAA (or the schools) to chase.
    T4VERTS
    Did you use trademarked logos for jerseys, stadiums, etc? If so, then technically yes as you did not pay to use them. It's easy to think you'd need to profit from it but in reality by stealing their IP you are avoiding paying them for your own personal use. This is kind of the crux of their infringement with the customization. The are making money by providing you with the means to commit infringement.

    Well, I'm content to use generic replacements. For example, a white helmet with a red W for Wisconsin, the reverse for Nebraska, ect. Generic replacement logos for schools that use them. They can't have a copyright on the IDEA of a given animal or whatnot, right?
    Its so frustrating that people who want to have fun have to work and try so hard to jump through these hoops.
    Yeah, I have a friend that is a lawyer in the insurance business (workers comp area) and he said, it's a slippery slope to venture into, but would need to do more reading into the laws.
    He said there must be a reason why EA and 2k don't jump in feet first and he said in EA's case, it's probably, once bitten, twice shy.
    And, he reminded me that no one needs to worry about this at this point until they get the proper funding to make the game as I linked him all the information.
    thescoop
    I don't see this being the case here though at all. I get what you're saying, but this isn't a case of them "stealing" their IP. Now, if they want to sue and make it a stink they could. But I also am not sure they need to do so to "defend their IP."
    One of my friends is a corp lawyer. He said he doesn't view this to be a huge issue unless it is proven they are using the trademarks to make money. But he did say he'd have to look more into it but wasn't sure it would be large enough for the NCAA (or the schools) to chase.

    Two things, one they marketed it as a feature therefor making money on it through the sales of game itself. Two, making money is not a requirement for infringement. One can infringe for personal use, it is a common misconception that one must profit. By you stealing IP (using it) you have deprived the IP holder the chance to sell it to you.
    I have brought up the idea of not being large enough to care a couple times, but it does come back to how much they feel they need to defend their IP. It is common for colleges to send cease and desist letters to high schools over their mascots to closely resembling or being blatant rip off of their mascots. You would think that it just seems petty, but this is in fact completely related to keeping their IP out of the public domain. Many times the colleges will work with the schools to make enough changes to the logo's to make them a new work remedying the situation for both parties.
    If the game does release, even if the sales are really low, the game is still going to get a massive amount of coverage. If the possibility for infringement exists then the powers that be simply aren't going to let it slide.
    jfsolo
    If the game does release, even if the sales are really low, the game is still going to get a massive amount of coverage. If the possibility for infringement exists then the powers that be simply aren't going to let it slide.

    If it releases is still the largest question. I pointed out a while back I think if it does release they will walk back the customization to a point that is far more defensible i.e. no logo importing.
    jfsolo
    If the game does release, even if the sales are really low, the game is still going to get a massive amount of coverage. If the possibility for infringement exists then the powers that be simply aren't going to let it slide.

    Exactly JF. Just look at how many websites wrote articles about this game. They range from huge ones like Yahoo and Bleacher Report to smaller ones like Sports Gamers Online. There is little chance that this game will fly under the radar. And after the release date announcement, I can already imagine what the NCAA law firm is doing about looking into this game.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    It pains me that we still don't have a college football game. I could care less if they're generic teams as long as we have a solid dynasty mode.   --   I don't want to be negative, but how can I be optimistic for a future game from these guys when they can't even design a respectable SquareSpace website? I went to the site to invest/donate, but there website is so trash I can't. I checked their GoFundMe  page hoping it was better, but I realized they've only raised $10k of their $850k goal on the platform
    iMackulate Vision Gaming, please prove me wrong! Everyone wants to give you our money, but you're not making it easy. 
    justinjones.us
    I don't want to be negative, but how can I be optimistic for a future game from these guys when they can't even design a respectable SquareSpace website? I went to the site to invest/donate, but there website is so trash I can't. I checked their GoFundMe* page hoping it was better, but I realized they've only raised $10k of their $850k goal on the platform.*
    iMackulate Vision Gaming, please prove me wrong! Everyone wants to give you our money, but you're not making it easy.*

    its not that hard to click on the pre sale page my guy.
    TheRosterMaster
    its not that hard to click on the pre sale page my guy.

    By can't, I mean won't. My point was that I don't trust a company to provide a quality college football game when they can't even design a website that looks even remotely legit on SquareSpace.
    justinjones.us
    By can't, I mean won't. My point was that I don't trust a company to provide a quality college football game when they can't even design a website that looks even remotely legit on SquareSpace.

    Looks legit to me
    Site's pretty cringeworthy and seems to assume everyone is browsing from their phone or something, but it is what it is - a fundraiser.
    Remains to be seen what they're able to execute, for example if they can't get on board with Big Ant what then?
    Vazione
    They have confirmed they have not even begun development yet.
    And when they do they will scream it from the rooftops, because per their terms they no longer will issue refunds at that point.
    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Listen, These schools cost 40-50,000 dollars a year to attend and these athletes get to go for free. Room and Board, meal plans and other perks. I am not buying this "not getting paid" nonsense that they are talking about. Ed O'Bannon had a mediocre life after college and now wants to ruin our fun. This "I didn't get picked so give me my ball, i'm going home" mentality is sickening to me. The AAA video game companies are all pu$$ies for not taking some chances with continuing with making these games. NCAA Football could have used fictional teams or D2 teams and still made it happen.
    6 weeks since the release date announcement, still no news on actual development starting.
    They're floating big ideas like working your way up from player to coach and working your way through the coaching ranks. I sure do hope that's a result of negotiating a statement of work with BigAnt or something.
    Looks like they already know they can't host or facilitate sharing of rosters/uniforms:
    @BIGw357 - Oh ok, will there be a option to upload teams and uniforms that we. can make on our own online, basically a teambuilder thing
    @IMVGAMING - Not at this time.
    https://twitter.com/IMVGAMING/status/1002384606333685761
    mestevo
    6 weeks since the release date announcement, still no news on actual development starting.
    They're floating big ideas like working your way up from player to coach and working your way through the coaching ranks. I sure do hope that's a result of negotiating a statement of work with BigAnt or something.
    Looks like they already know they can't host or facilitate sharing of rosters/uniforms:
    @BIGw357 - Oh ok, will there be a option to upload teams and uniforms that we. can make on our own online, basically a teambuilder thing
    @IMVGAMING - Not at this time.
    https://twitter.com/IMVGAMING/status/1002384606333685761

    I like the "work your way up" idea. Kinda like Coordinator to Coach in NCAA, but more in depth.
    It's too bad you can't do a teambuilder type option, but it makes sense. If it does well, maybe colleges will jump back on board as long as rosters themselves stay generic. Bill Walsh College Football was generic too, and was still enjoyable.
    mestevo

    Looks like they already know they can't host or facilitate sharing of rosters/uniforms:
    @BIGw357 - Oh ok, will there be a option to upload teams and uniforms that we. can make on our own online, basically a teambuilder thing
    @IMVGAMING - Not at this time.
    https://twitter.com/IMVGAMING/status/1002384606333685761

    They better come out an make an announcement saying that. Many people who have donated to the game thought that you would be able to create real NCAA teams even if the game doesn't ship with them since they essentially promised that beforehand. The fact that the only way we now know that Gridiron Champions won't do that from a single Twitter reply is pretty ridiculous.
    SilverBullet19
    I like the "work your way up" idea. Kinda like Coordinator to Coach in NCAA, but more in depth.
    It's too bad you can't do a teambuilder type option, but it makes sense. If it does well, maybe colleges will jump back on board as long as rosters themselves stay generic. Bill Walsh College Football was generic too, and was still enjoyable.

    Yeah, easily my favorite part of NCAA was bouncing around schools as coordinator and coach over the course of my career and I hope we get that in Madden one day once the requisite depth (coordinators) is there.
    ElectricAggie
    They better come out an make an announcement saying that. Many people who have donated to the game thought that you would be able to create real NCAA teams even if the game doesn't ship with them since they essentially promised that beforehand. The fact that the only way we now know that Gridiron Champions won't do that from a single Twitter reply is pretty ridiculous.

    It's likely referring specifically to them having some form of online team builder. I expect customization will be there, the ability to share it easily I expect will be a very big part of their statement of work negotiations with a developer/publisher.
    All I get from that reply is they won't have a Teambuilder replica. It would shock me if they didn't have customization that mirrored Big Ant's other games and the ability to share all user created content in those games.
    That is, if the game ever comes to light.
    Something that somewhat turns me off from this game, or at least the developers, is that when you criticize them, their panties get in a bunch. I personally am not a fan of their idea of working from High School coach and on up because I feel like (at this stage) they don't need that stuff. Just make a functioning football game first before adding icing to the cake.
    Basically, I told them that and they were like "We have to make our game stand out." In my eyes, the fact that you're making a CFB game already makes your game stand out. Now just do the simple things well lol.
    Also, another thing that turns me off, is that they tend to have typos in their tweets and marketing promotions. Attention to detail stuff like that matters in video game production. 2K and EA wouldn't be making those mistakes so consistently.
    Thankfully these guys are just the middle men. They're basically just looking for someone to make a game for them w/ their money.
    No developer signed yet, and are going to the 'it's premature to talk about it until something is signed' well after their hyped up 'we've got Bigpoint - if we get the money' announcement last year.
    mestevo
    Thankfully these guys are just the middle men. They're basically just looking for someone to make a game for them w/ their money.
    No developer signed yet, and are going to the 'it's premature to talk about it until something is signed' well after their hyped up 'we've got Bigpoint - if we get the money' announcement last year.

    So basically, they have the idea to make the game, but not the knowhow or the money themselves? How does that make them any different from the rest of us then?
    Unlucky 13
    So basically, they have the idea to make the game, but not the knowhow or the money themselves? How does that make them any different from the rest of us then?

    It doesn’t, these guys have been clowns from day 1. No developer has any reason to work with them unless they completely deliver on funding. Even then, a developer is going to sit them down and slash half their ideas at least initially. They have no idea how development really works. It’s laughable anyone news outlets reported a 2020 release date based on an idea without even a basic prototype.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Unlucky 13
    So basically, they have the idea to make the game, but not the knowhow or the money themselves? How does that make them any different from the rest of us then?
    They are basically running a multi-year Kickstarter to have someone else make a game for them, but they don't have that someone lined up yet. Until that happens and they have that statement of work agreed on I'd take any feature suggestions or expectations with a grain of salt.
    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Unlucky 13
    So basically, they have the idea to make the game, but not the knowhow or the money themselves? How does that make them any different from the rest of us then?

    boxboy99
    It doesn’t, these guys have been clowns from day 1. No developer has any reason to work with them unless they completely deliver on funding. Even then, a developer is going to sit them down and slash half their ideas at least initially. They have no idea how development really works. It’s laughable anyone news outlets reported a 2020 release date based on an idea without even a basic prototype.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    Not to mention they supposedly used some of the money to get a graphic artist to do renderings of their player models...yet they don't have a game yet. So they're saying "here's the player model" when in reality it should say "we don't have a develop and have no code or anything written...but this is what we HOPE to make the players look like"
    Sheesh! I was thinking that these guys were either
    A) A few rich guys with the desire to make a new college football game who were trying to hire game designers to get it done
    or
    B) A few experienced game designers with the experience and training to make the game, who needed funding
    But they're just a couple of dudes with neither? Pretty stupid that they even got anyone's attention then.
    Unlucky 13
    Sheesh! I was thinking that these guys were either
    A) A few rich guys with the desire to make a new college football game who were trying to hire game designers to get it done
    or
    B) A few experienced game designers with the experience and training to make the game, who needed funding
    But they're just a couple of dudes with neither? Pretty stupid that they even got anyone's attention then.

    Their first video ever was terrible. If I recall, it was a guy talking into a phone behind a strip mall and you could hear a bunch of wind. Yup, it’s dude with no experience other than they want someone to make a game. They have a few ideas, don’t we all. They have a few mock up. And they are trying to get funding. Wouldn’t be shocked if we never hear another word about this project. Or maybe someone will get bored in a few months and reveal more meaningless details.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    I just hope the company remembers that without a NCAA License, they are not bound by NCAA's oversight and can take chances on things that really immerse the gamers. We can have helmets flying off, and grade tampering options if a player is in danger of failing a class. There is a huge need for some RPG elements built into a sports game to keep things moving forward. I should be able to build a program with boosters and rich alumni that can help recruit top tier talent. Choose a coach or an AD with benefits that affect gameplay. If you have School spirited AD verses a more financial minded AD, School Impact: If your school is supportive of your football program or not so much can affect money therefore, you may not be able to recruit that big name star. The more you win, the more lose, the more these things are affected. Just a few ideas, I have many more... :-D
    drugsbunny
    I just hope the company remembers that without a NCAA License, they are not bound by NCAA's oversight and can take chances on things that really immerse the gamers. We can have helmets flying off, and grade tampering options if a player is in danger of failing a class. There is a huge need for some RPG elements built into a sports game to keep things moving forward. I should be able to build a program with boosters and rich alumni that can help recruit top tier talent. Choose a coach or an AD with benefits that affect gameplay. If you have School spirited AD verses a more financial minded AD, School Impact: If your school is supportive of your football program or not so much can affect money therefore, you may not be able to recruit that big name star. The more you win, the more lose, the more these things are affected. Just a few ideas, I have many more... :-D
    That's a good way to become the No Mans Sky of sports games though, too.
    The important promises they make will be after they find a developer, anything prior can be largely forgotten until after that happens and they discuss the game they've agreed to have made for them.
    They currently aren't even sending out the newsletters that are a thing promised to paid supporters because there's nothing to talk about. https://twitter.com/IMVGAMING/status/1018246326394474496?s=19
    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    mestevo
    That's a good way to become the No Mans Sky of sports games though, too.
    The important promises they make will be after they find a developer, anything prior can be largely forgotten until after that happens and they discuss the game they've agreed to have made for them.
    They currently aren't even sending out the newsletters that are a thing promised to paid supporters because there's nothing to talk about. https://twitter.com/IMVGAMING/status/1018246326394474496?s=19
    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

    The sketchy part about the sudden pausing of sending out newsletters is that it took an investor asking them about the newsletter to get them to say something about it. Crazy lol.
    MDSavageBeast
    The sketchy part about the sudden pausing of sending out newsletters is that it took an investor asking them about the newsletter to get them to say something about it. Crazy lol.

    Yeah, and before that it was simply 'TBD'. It wasn't a decision they made proactively, it was reactive to being prodded about it over weeks.
    Kinda strains credulity they couldn't find anything to talk about at all, from fodder about the team, fundraising efforts and further education or updates on the process the last few months since announcing they were going into massive debt to finance the game.
    Poking around, between December and April they removed this excerpt from their site:
    mestevo
    Yeah, and before that it was simply 'TBD'. It wasn't a decision they made proactively, it was reactive to being prodded about it over weeks.
    Kinda strains credulity they couldn't find anything to talk about at all, from fodder about the team, fundraising efforts and further education or updates on the process the last few months since announcing they were going into massive debt to finance the game.
    Poking around, between December and April they removed this excerpt from their site:

    All the things you have pointed out are why I don't think this game will ever come to fruition. It feels like a side project, that the take to when they have time. Actually, it doesn't even feel like that. It feels like they are dabbling with the idea of a new hobby, got some stuff related to it, and realized it was far more difficult than they thought.
    When I was 10 and REALLY wanted a drum set. I got my drum set...no idea how to play them. I took a few tutorial videos, realized "wow this is really tougher than I thought," and then my drums sat and gathered dust for 5 years until I sold them, to a drummer who wanted a set for his son.
    That's how I see this. They thought it sounded really cool, so they dove in a bit, and went "oh crap this is really hard." So now it sits, gathering dust, in the hopes a big boy who knows what he is doing will buy it someday.
    I hope I'm wrong, I'd love a new college game. Hell, I'd even love a community college game at this point lol
    I have held from the start that this has 0% chance of happening. Nothing over the last 6-12 months has changed that belief. Two guys with no experience, no intellectual property, and no funding decided they are a video game studio, what could go wrong? It actually sounds like more of a plot to a bad Netflix movie than a business plan.
    T4VERTS
    I have held from the start that this has 0% chance of happening. Nothing over the last 6-12 months has changed that belief. Two guys with no experience, no intellectual property, and no funding decided they are a video game studio, what could go wrong? It actually sounds like more of a plot to a bad Netflix movie than a business plan.

    They would have better luck pitching this as a show to Netflix. Sounds like great TV. A cross between Silicon Valley and Seinfield (the show about nothing).
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    I put a lot of thought into making an upper tier (as they have described on their website) donation to their kickstarter/initial campaigns just in hopes of seeing something getting the ball rolling on a refreshing take on football as opposed to the annual Madden releases. As of now, it looks like some shady stuff going on as far as communication, or lack thereof, between the folks at IMV and insiders/general public. Not to mention the fact that the bulk of their attention appears to be on marketing through getting lesser known pro-athletes to take pictures with them and maybe donate a little extra money to the cause.
    The longer the process goes on, and the more delays continue to happen, the more I lose hope in the validity of this project as well as its likeliness to actually come out.
    Someone on Twitter thought this game was going to be released in 2019 and IMV responded with this.
    IMV Gaming

    @IMVGAMING
    There is no chance the game is coming out in 2019. We have no intentions of rushing a game out. We are in negations with multiple studios & haven’t started development yet. Once a deal is in place, we will make a follow up announcement of a more accurate estimated release date
    They have been asking people for money as donations, here we are and they still do not have a developer? Their response to someone who thought this game was coming out in 2019 was they won't rush the game. How can you rush a game out when you haven't even started development yet?
    Whoever runs their Twitter was trying to answer back on the negative responses and they kept sticking to the point of not rushing games out.
    marc68
    This wont be an NCAA licensed game......right?

    No. The idea is fictional schools and conferences, but full customization. So ideally, you can go create all the teams and conferences your heart desires.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    That's what they've been suggesting, remains to be seen what they can carve out in a statement of work with a developer.
    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    UFCMPunk

    @IMVGAMING
    There is no chance the game is coming out in 2019. We have no intentions of rushing a game out. We are in negations with multiple studios & haven’t started development yet. Once a deal is in place, we will make a follow up announcement of a more accurate estimated release date

    negation
    noun
    1. the act of denying:
    He shook his head in negation of the charge.
    2. a denial:
    a negation of one's former beliefs.
    3. something that is without existence; nonentity.
    Woah... maybe that typo was made on purpose? 🤔
    boxboy99
    As an advisor, he probably going to advise their plan is trash. Advisor tells me he isn’t going to be “hands on” in developing the game.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    It does say they are bringing him in as an advisory board member and they hope to retain his services once they finalize a development deal. They would like to keep him on with the development cycle if it gets that far obviously.
    It's a pretty big get for them in this stage. Hopefully it pays off.
    ShowTyme15
    It does say they are bringing him in as an advisory board member and they hope to retain his services once they finalize a development deal. They would like to keep him on with the development cycle if it gets that far obviously.
    It's a pretty big get for them in this stage. Hopefully it pays off.

    Sounds like that time they “hoped” to have Big Ant. :)
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    ShowTyme15
    It does say they are bringing him in as an advisory board member and they hope to retain his services once they finalize a development deal. They would like to keep him on with the development cycle if it gets that far obviously.
    It's a pretty big get for them in this stage. Hopefully it pays off.

    Yeah, gotta give props. This isn't an insignificant development.
    mestevo
    So about 13 months from 'we've got a developer and publisher - if you keep donating' and 5 months after 'got money - but please keep donating, we're releasing in 2020' was widely reported all they seem to be doing is getting former players to Tweet about them. The latest is Montee Ball, who is and will be playable in the game.

    Wait isn't this suppose to be a college based game? That was their scheme to get funding after all. Montee Ball played for Wisconsin Badgers not University of Bumsville Dragons.
    Technically these guys should not be playable since it is suppose to be college and fake. Are they trying to have a story mode with guys that are out of the league?
    They are trying too hard just not possible to fit all these things in the 1st game with people that have no experience running it.
    WeFireThoseCannons
    Wait isn't this suppose to be a college based game? That was their scheme to get funding after all. Montee Ball played for Wisconsin Badgers not University of Bumsville Dragons.
    Technically these guys should not be playable since it is suppose to be college and fake. Are they trying to have a story mode with guys that are out of the league?
    They are trying too hard just not possible to fit all these things in the 1st game with people that have no experience running it.
    First game generic, second game licensed, is the stated intention they've been pitching for a while.
    They're beholden to what they can afford / a developer is willing to create, though.
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    WeFireThoseCannons
    Wait isn't this suppose to be a college based game? That was their scheme to get funding after all. Montee Ball played for Wisconsin Badgers not University of Bumsville Dragons.
    Technically these guys should not be playable since it is suppose to be college and fake. Are they trying to have a story mode with guys that are out of the league?
    They are trying too hard just not possible to fit all these things in the 1st game with people that have no experience running it.

    You can’t see how this is a selling point? Generic teams or not people get excited about using real players. So they want to get some real names to draw in more purchases.
    Also, considering their whole premise is complete customization, you could easily have Ball playing for Wisconsin.
    It’s actually a good move and would be happy to see more former college stars signed on. I still remain skeptical that the game will ever make it to production though
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    Nothing really new lately other than they're going to put up a members only website when they can't even create enough content to put out a monthly newsletter.
    Check out one of their latest tweets:
    https://twitter.com/IMVGAMING/status/1060697455044517888
    LMAO what a joke. IMV and Rockstar should NEVER be mentioned in the same sentence. Sure, it took Rockstar 8 years to make Red Dead 2, but during that time period they released 2 other open-world games (L.A. Noire and GTA V). Plus they had a prior history of developing quality games before Red Dead 2 (obviously).
    I can bet that in year 2 of development that Red Dead 2 had AT THE VERY LEAST a single line of code written. That is something that IMV can't say. Rockstar never begged its customers for money either.
    We are excited to develop
    Oh, is that so? What is stopping you then? The truth is, you need someone else to develop the game, since you aren't capable. IMV will NEVER be Rockstar.
    ElectricAggie

    Oh, is that so? What is stopping you then? The truth is, you need someone else to develop the game, since you aren't capable. IMV will NEVER be Rockstar.

    This is so true. Just seems like a couple of guys who wanted to bring back NCAA football and then just tried to outsource all the work, while maintaining the idea of it being under their umbrella. Even some of the screens of the UI they released looked very similar to NCAA.
    Just seems like a couple of guys who meant well but didn't really have any technical skills to do this own their own and realized it was a much bigger task than they thought.
    jct32
    This is so true. Just seems like a couple of guys who wanted to bring back NCAA football and then just tried to outsource all the work, while maintaining the idea of it being under their umbrella. Even some of the screens of the UI they released looked very similar to NCAA.
    Just seems like a couple of guys who meant well but didn't really have any technical skills to do this own their own and realized it was a much bigger task than they thought.

    This is really common in business, we call them "idea guys". My company has a flagship product that is well know in the industry we are in. Every week we get emails from people telling us they have the next great version of our product and they want us to sign an NDA so they can license it to us to actually do all the engineering work to actually make it....basically all of the real work. We throw these in the trash because in the end any great idea with none of the work done is simply not worth it. The truth is most the ideas we have already had but after working through the logistics it didn't really make sense.
    I have held for a long time now, these guys bring absolutely nothing to a developer. They have no intellectual property, they have no real brand, they have no licensing....they just have an idea. If the idea was good and feasible one of the developers would simply do it on there own as the idea itself can't be protected by any sort of patent.
    If they really wanted to be successful they would have went out and learned how to do something on their own. There have been plenty of indie's that started by a guy working on his own and eventually scaling. These guys were so uninformed on how things worked they thought they could just get someone else to do it. The fact they have actually roped all these people into believing in this is actually a perfect example of the naivety of how the business world works so many people live with.
    T4VERTS
    This is really common in business, we call them "idea guys". My company has a flagship product that is well know in the industry we are in. Every week we get emails from people telling us they have the next great version of our product and they want us to sign an NDA so they can license it to us to actually do all the engineering work to actually make it....basically all of the real work. We throw these in the trash because in the end any great idea with none of the work done is simply not worth it. The truth is most the ideas we have already had but after working through the logistics it didn't really make sense.
    I have held for a long time now, these guys bring absolutely nothing to a developer. They have no intellectual property, they have no real brand, they have no licensing....they just have an idea. If the idea was good and feasible one of the developers would simply do it on there own as the idea itself can't be protected by any sort of patent.
    If they really wanted to be successful they would have went out and learned how to do something on their own. There have been plenty of indie's that started by a guy working on his own and eventually scaling. These guys were so uninformed on how things worked they thought they could just get someone else to do it. The fact they have actually roped all these people into believing in this is actually a perfect example of the naivety of how the business world works so many people live with.

    This is exactly why I think it will never come to production. On top of this, their idea isn't even a novel/new idea. Ever since NCAA was ended the idea of a fully customization generic version has been bounced around. They're just the first to try to rope people in and push it, if you can even call it a push.
    Real dedication to an idea is Axis and Maximum football. Very small development teams putting in the work and pumping out a product. Maximum developers (I think a total of 3-4 guys) not only put out a game, but have been releasing huge patches to improve it along the way (notably patching in a logo creator, ability to add logos to helmets that were previously blank, etc). That's how you get into the gaming world, in my mind. I bought Maximum and will buy Axis at minimum just to support them.
    SilverBullet19
    This is exactly why I think it will never come to production. On top of this, their idea isn't even a novel/new idea. Ever since NCAA was ended the idea of a fully customization generic version has been bounced around. They're just the first to try to rope people in and push it, if you can even call it a push.
    Real dedication to an idea is Axis and Maximum football. Very small development teams putting in the work and pumping out a product. Maximum developers (I think a total of 3-4 guys) not only put out a game, but have been releasing huge patches to improve it along the way (notably patching in a logo creator, ability to add logos to helmets that were previously blank, etc). That's how you get into the gaming world, in my mind. I bought Maximum and will buy Axis at minimum just to support them.

    Maximum is 1 developer full time (David) and then myself on sales & marketing (Eric) part time.
    3rd pivot after 'we got bigant' and then 'we got funding'.
    The tl;dr is 'we are no longer giving refunds, stay tuned.
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    I see that a lot of people are reacting positively to this update on Twitter. All they did was announce that they actually need $20+ million now (absolute insanity) and that they would have more rounds of funding.
    For those keeping score at home, they STILL don't have a developer picked out, and they are now asking for $20,000,000+. Yeah, no thanks.
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    ElectricAggie
    I see that a lot of people are reacting positively to this update on Twitter. All they did was announce that they actually need $20+ million now (absolute insanity) and that they would have more rounds of funding.
    For those keeping score at home, they STILL don't have a developer picked out, and they are now for $20,000,000+. Yeah, no thanks.
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    That’s how I read it. That’s a tons of writing to say not much at all. A very long way of saying “we still have no idea what we’re doing, but need more money than we thought.”
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    This is going to be an episode of American Greed in the future.
    This is nothing more than crowdfunding for the sake of acquiring money. I don't believe there's any actual intent to develop a game, just to string people along, maximize their "funding" then disappear.
    bkrich83
    This is going to be an episode of American Greed in the future.
    This is nothing more than crowdfunding for the sake of acquiring money. I don't believe there's any actual intent to develop a game, just to string people along, maximize their "funding" then disappear.

    First off... I love that show. Secondly, that wouldn’t surprise me one bit
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    The "beginning round of institutional funding" thing is weird to me. No one is going to value this "company" at $200k let alone $20 Million, so how do they think they could sell of equity to fund it? Nothing about this makes sense. The intellectual property note is funny because the only thing they can get are trademarks on their titles, but that is least important part of any of this.
    Again, this really just comes across like they don't have a clue what they are doing.
    Perfect time for EA to jump back in. They have the money, development team and resources at hand. If they do exactly what IMV is doing, they could produce a game in a year and it would sell.
    cingelsby
    Perfect time for EA to jump back in. They have the money, development team and resources at hand. If they do exactly what IMV is doing, they could produce a game in a year and it would sell.
    If it made sense they probably would. It's reasonable to conclude that it hasn't, so they haven't.
    Unrelated, they are probably hoping nobody notices that they claimed to have an agreement with Big Ant to make a game for just 5 million dollars at one point, if they could have just raised 2.5 million at the time.
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    cingelsby
    Perfect time for EA to jump back in. They have the money, development team and resources at hand. If they do exactly what IMV is doing, they could produce a game in a year and it would sell.

    As I have pointed out throughout this thread, I still don't believe that what IMV is trying to do is even legal. I think they will have a lot of lawsuits in terms of contributory infringement. This why the "we will just give people tools to steal trademarked stuff" isn't a really good business model.
    Have you seen what 2k has done, people are creating college hoops teams and floors without any issue. There has to be a way for all parties to make this work. The Jenkins lawsuit in December could be a game changer.
    cingelsby
    Have you seen what 2k has done, people are creating college hoops teams and floors without any issue. There has to be a way for all parties to make this work. The Jenkins lawsuit in December could be a game changer.

    I went into why earlier, not really interested in rehashing it but you can go back to the early posts and read it all.
    Funny how they make an announcement like this and then disappear from Twitter for a couple days. That's a page from the Damon Grow playbook.
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    Um.
    I'm going to pointlessly ask a few obvious questions with obvious answers: how do these guys expect to get Series A funding with no product, no tech demo, no users, no assets, no revenue streams, no nothing? How do they hope to do this in the video game industry, where venture capital for game startups not on the bleeding edge of technology or without an already-successful product does not exist? What do these guys have besides an idea and some seed capital from some gullible NCAA Football fans? Do they expect to simply shake an imaginary money tree and watch Series A / B / C funding fall out? Even assuming they find some fools who wish to haplessly part with their money, how much of their $20M+ estimate do they expect to secure in Series A?
    As a point of reference, Survios - a bleeding-edge VR gaming company responsible for acclaimed games such as Sprint Vector and Creed: Rise To Glory - secured $4.2 Million in their Series A round in 2014. At the time of funding, Survios already had: (reportedly very impressive) tech demos; engineers, designers, and other staff already on-board; and also obviously they were (and still are) working on the bleeding edge of video game technology (VR). Survios did not secure their reported $50 Million in Series C funding until after their first title - Raw Data, a VR first-person shooter - was in early access and already a hit on HTC Vive.
    As much as I want a college football game, I'm not banking on this company. Really doesn't seem like they didn't know what they getting into. "Would be larger than expected(20+million)". Did they honestly think the original 5 million was going to be it?. What happened with that Big Ant studios developing it.
    I wouldn't be surprised if there were more delays. All they have now is ideas and a few screen shots. A situation like this only really works when either they already have access to funding(which they don't), ability to develop or access to developers(which they dont), or great marketing(which they haven't shown). If they had the backing from a influential athlete or millionare, then they would have been in a better state
    Corporate restructuring? You have 2 guys with an idea, how do you restructure?
    Unexpected delays? Anyone with half a brain never expected this project to get off the ground. Everything said so far was completely expected.
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    In madden 18 they had 2 college teams in Texas and Oregon, whets the difference if they have 2 or 126. They were able to license both with no issues, give us 50 teams and I think it would sell
    boxboy99
    Corporate restructuring? You have 2 guys with an idea, how do you restructure?
    Unexpected delays? Anyone with half a brain never expected this project to get off the ground. Everything said so far was completely expected.
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    Whole insert sounded like a professional way to say that this is alot harder than we expected.
    No way its coming out 2020. Don't see how they can get that type of funding with no real way to sell them on product. Even if by some miracle they get funding, does anyone believe it will sell well at all. If a unlicensed football game with NFL legends couldn't sell that well to masses, I don't see an unlicensed college game selling well at all
    cingelsby
    In madden 18 they had 2 college teams in Texas and Oregon, whets the difference if they have 2 or 126. They were able to license both with no issues, give us 50 teams and I think it would sell

    They licensed with those schools specifically, and had no actual players. It was also for a relatively small role. It’s very different than licensing for a game dedicated to college ball.
    I could go more in depth but in essence, it’s not quite that simple.
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