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New NBA 2K22 Details Have Been Revealed - Shot Aiming is Gone, Improved Defensive Mechanic, Dribbling Improvements & Much More

nba 2k22

NBA 2K22

New NBA 2K22 Details Have Been Revealed - Shot Aiming is Gone, Improved Defensive Mechanic, Dribbling Improvements & Much More

2K is finally starting to provide some new NBA 2K22 details. The latest NBA 2KTV episode features new information from gameplay director Mike Wang. Starting at roughly the 4:58 mark in the video below, Mike briefly talks about the following goodies:

  • All-new defensive mechanic
  • Better perimeter defense, body ups on the floor
  • Improved movement and how the players feel
  • On-ball defensive stances and on-ball defensive situations have improved
  • More contested shots at the rim with new block system
  • Defense will feel much more rewarding and make the game more balanced

  • Dribbling has also improved significantly with new combos and signature moves
  • Emphasizes that NBA 2K22 feels more balanced offensively and defensively
  • Provides some additional details for Seasons in MyTEAM
  • Some details on the various archetypes
  • A lot of the gameplay features will be in both Gen 4 and Gen 5 systems, but the new systems will also receive better foot planting, movement and some new interesting features that will be announced a little later with alley-oops and dunks, which will require a bit of a skill mechanic

Mike also posted answers to some of the questions on Twitter, but deleted them all. Of course, posting anything on the Internet doesn’t just disappear. Our friends from r/NBA2K captured all of his tweets and responses here.

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  1. Such a big big disappointment hearing current and next gen will be basically the same gameplay wise.
    I did hope that the launch of next gen was the opportunity to redisign and improve some of the core mechanics, including rating and tendency systems, as well as to get a big leap in CPU AI thanks to the new hardware.
    But it seems that it won't be the case... they will just focus on pleasing the "community" who don't give a f* about realistic bball.
    I already skipped 2k21 and honestly I wonder if I will ever buy a Nba 2k title again.
    Yeah, definitely to read that current and next gen are much more similar gameplay wise compared to last year is highly disappointing when I was expecting exactly the opposite...
    It's a pity to be limited by 10-years old tech even though we can understand the reasons behind it...
    I'm glad that they are keeping the gameplay the same and not pull an EA. There are still people out there that don't have NEXT GEN systems. So why leave them out with the experience?
    Besides what can 2k do to make the gameplay more next gen? Actual physics? I don't think they are willing to start over....
    Hopefully that means the whole Road to 99 grind is out. I still expect to see the pay wall with starting from 60 OVR. But, they do have to at least lessen up on either the grinding or pay wall. Either allow us to start from. 70-75 OVR or make the grind less strenuous. I thought this past year would have been my first time to 99. But once I got to 95 and realized how many more games you have to play to get to 99 plus having to win to maintain it, made me lose interest. Once I get to a point where I max all the badges and knock out the primary ratings, I'm not getting any "better" after 92-93 OVR. So, I just want to be able to just play to enjoy not to keep grinding.
    convince
    Did he say more info in a few weeks? Doesn't the game release in a few weeks? When developers are this quiet it's never a good thing.

    There's 2 full weeks before release week where you will see some get early copies. I expect to get gameplay, MyTeam, miscellaneous next week, then end of the last week of this month we should get the MYNBA and MyCareer news.
    Goffs
    I'm glad that they are keeping the gameplay the same and not pull an EA. There are still people out there that don't have NEXT GEN systems. So why leave them out with the experience?
    Besides what can 2k do to make the gameplay more next gen? Actual physics? I don't think they are willing to start over....

    Yeah, a lot of animations may be similar but the physics will still be different.
    New vid on it: https://twitter.com/nba2konreddit/status/1428905492559056901?s=21
    Schnoodle321
    So no more hesi with holding the right stick? This game sounds like it’s honestly going to be awful when we actually hear about it 24h before release

    Sounds good to me. Back to how it was before - holding the stick in any direction equals shooting.
    Thank the hoops lords.
    daveberg
    Sounds good to me. Back to how it was before - holding the stick in any direction equals shooting.
    Thank the hoops lords.

    I haven’t played a 2K like that as I learned on 21.
    How do you prevent accidental shots from being taken when doing dribble moves? I actually like how it is but I don’t know any better I guess.
    AIRJ23
    I haven’t played a 2K like that as I learned on 21.
    How do you prevent accidental shots from being taken when doing dribble moves? I actually like how it is but I don’t know any better I guess.

    Sticks were flicked and not held in multi directions to perform dribble moves in 2k20 and previous entries, with the help of trigger modifiers to add more options.
    Up for signature dribbles. Left and right for hesi. Back/back left for behind the backs. RT and back for step backs etc etc
    Not gonna lie. If shot is aim is gone, that makes me happy.
    For me who couldn’t use it.
    For my opponent who could green everything with it.
    daveberg
    Aiming mini game is gone and controls more like 2K20???
    Suddenly my interest is climbing.....
    It's a start. I know that I still play NBA 2K20 due to the RS alone.
    ksuttonjr76
    It's a start. I know that I still play NBA 2K20 due to the RS alone.

    Right there with you. I was planning on staying with it this year, too, but this development has turned my head slightly.
    If the controls are more akin to how they were in 2K20 and previous to that - I may lean towards a purchase.
    Maybe.
    I only use Real Player % for shots and free throws anyway, BUT I'm really glad you guys are happy with this news of the aiming being gone.
    Now where's the MyNBA stuff...
    I hate that cheaters killed vibration feedback on shooting. It was always one of my favorite additions.
    Knew aiming wouldn't make it to the next game, but I enjoyed it while it was here....the initial iteration of it anyway.
    I hate to see long pressing RS for hesi's and size ups go though, that felt really natural and it's something I used often.
    Never one to complain about change or new mechanics though, mastering them is part of the fun for me....just hope they've smoothed things out a bit from the 2K20 system.
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
    90% of my gameplay is in MyCareer but this “MyPlayer only drip-feed animations” really is dumb as hell.
    How absurd is it that they could drop a Jalen Green sig package and JALEN GREEN can’t use it?
    Adding animations throughout the year is legitimately a good thing, but the proposed method is one of the worst ways you could do it. Especially since it means nothing for the NBA side of the game.
    SuperNoVa27
    90% of my gameplay is in MyCareer but this “MyPlayer only drip-feed animations” really is dumb as hell.
    How absurd is it that they could drop a Jalen Green sig package and JALEN GREEN can’t use it?
    Adding animations throughout the year is legitimately a good thing, but the proposed method is one of the worst ways you could do it. Especially since it means nothing for the NBA side of the game.
    Is that really what that means? I figured they were just referencing, I don't know, zany streetball animations or something, things that wouldn't fit in an actual NBA setting (I know zero about MyPlayer).
    illwill10
    Hopefully that means the whole Road to 99 grind is out. I still expect to see the pay wall with starting from 60 OVR. But, they do have to at least lessen up on either the grinding or pay wall. Either allow us to start from. 70-75 OVR or make the grind less strenuous. I thought this past year would have been my first time to 99. But once I got to 95 and realized how many more games you have to play to get to 99 plus having to win to maintain it, made me lose interest. Once I get to a point where I max all the badges and knock out the primary ratings, I'm not getting any "better" after 92-93 OVR. So, I just want to be able to just play to enjoy not to keep grinding.

    "to clarify, you won’t lose overall on next gen as we have a different system in place there. overalls can still fluctuate in current gen"
    So, looks like the current gen still has the Road to 99 while next gen has a new system
    The comments about the animations is almost something that I predicted when somebody was arguing for NBA 2K to be a "live service" in the other closed thread.
    Animations are going behind a paywall...
    Goffs
    I'm glad that they are keeping the gameplay the same and not pull an EA. There are still people out there that don't have NEXT GEN systems. So why leave them out with the experience?
    Besides what can 2k do to make the gameplay more next gen? Actual physics? I don't think they are willing to start over....

    Because I coughed up over 500 dollars to have a different experience than last gen
    Pray_iv_m3rcy
    Because I coughed up over 500 dollars to have a different experience than last gen
    Real talk. I'm kinda pissed off about that game development decision. I did get the next gen game experience with OTHER games, but I primary bought my console for NBA 2K.
    Removing aiming is an exercise in futility. Excellent timing scripts will still be around, thus zens aren’t going anywhere.
    Those zen users somehow dodge all criticisms going on 5 years now. Aiming also made using square boring imo I dunno how I could go back, hopefully precision shooting is the new aiming.
    daveberg
    Aiming mini game is gone and controls more like 2K20???
    Suddenly my interest is climbing.....

    You weren’t concerned with him saying shootings more predictable?
    I’ll never understand why people cheer on the removal of a feature they didn’t have to use.
    daveberg
    Aiming mini game is gone and controls more like 2K20???
    Suddenly my interest is climbing.....

    Gotta strongly, STRONGLY disagree here. Aiming was a fantastic option for those who wanted to use it. If you didn't want to use it, that's cool, you didn't have to, but the flat out REMOVAL of the feature is not a win at all. I'm pretty deeply disappointed, because aiming was the first time where I felt like I was thinking about my shot the way I do on the real life floor. Retaining it as an option wasn't effecting anyone (with the exception of those running into zens, who will be wholly uneffected as they'll find ways to tune those for shot timing rather easily) except those who enjoyed it. Gotta say I feel a bit alienated by that decision.
    loso_34
    Removing aiming is an exercise in futility. Excellent timing scripts will still be around, thus zens aren’t going anywhere.
    Those zen users somehow dodge all criticisms going on 5 years now. Aiming also made using square boring imo I dunno how I could go back, hopefully precision shooting is the new aiming.

    Exactly! All it really serves to do is kill those who learned and enjoyed the mechanic because those who didn't like it were so exponentially loud. Retaining it as an option really wouldn't have hurt anything.
    If the on-court experience is the same for both generations, is there really a benefit to purchase the P5 version considering I'm an offline player only have yet to even get a hold of a new console?
    spike83
    If the on-court experience is the same for both generations, is there really a benefit to purchase the P5 version considering I'm an offline player only have yet to even get a hold of a new console?

    If you don't have the PS5 I'm not sure I'd bother. I always get the more expensive versions because I like the online aspect. If you're good waiting another year (and the PS5 could continue to be hard to come by for a while), I'd say just pass on the next gen game, imo.
    franzis
    But it seems that it won't be the case... they will just focus on pleasing the "community" who don't give a f* about realistic bball.

    They're the largest portion of the fanbase by far. You might not like it, but it's at least understandable.
    spike83
    If the on-court experience is the same for both generations, is there really a benefit to purchase the P5 version considering I'm an offline player only have yet to even get a hold of a new console?

    I'm an offline player as well. While I did enjoy my time with 2k21 NG, if I were to go back I would pass on it. While I could feel the differences, it still felt like the same 2k.
    It does suck that consoles are still scarce. But, I don't want the same experience for both generations. It just feels like the current gen is being held back by last gen. I just don't want the current gen differences to be visuals and hardware benefits.
    mb625
    Exactly! All it really serves to do is kill those who learned and enjoyed the mechanic because those who didn't like it were so exponentially loud. Retaining it as an option really wouldn't have hurt anything.

    I’m just aghast at people believing cheating is now gone. The real cheaters spread the lies because as long as greens exist zens will exist.
    Devs know this too.
    Mike just said a little while ago that there is a new shot meter.
    Only they know the actual metrics, but I think that it is a reasonable assumption to say that the overwhelming majority of people hated shot aiming. IMO if most people hate a feature and you aren't going to iterate on it, then getting rid of it and trying to make something better isn't the wrong play.
    Pray_iv_m3rcy
    Because I coughed up over 500 dollars to have a different experience than last gen

    No loading times, better visuals, etc. It'd be different if the game was identical (or even close) on each generation.
    And if you spent 500+ dollars on a console for one game, that's kind of on you.
    jfsolo
    Mike just said a little while ago that there is a new shot meter.
    Only they know the actual metrics, but I think that it is a reasonable assumption to say that the overwhelming majority of people hated shot aiming. IMO if most people hate a feature and you aren't going to iterate on it, then getting rid of it and trying to make something better isn't the wrong play.
    They hated it because they a) worked with it for the first weekend, got frustrated and gave up and then b) it was used for zens (which we've established won't be stopped by this change). It wasn't a forced feature. It was an option. A bunch of people not liking an option doesn't mean it should be removed altogether. Online players don't like real player percentage for the most part, that doesn't mean it can't be an option.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    loso_34
    You weren’t concerned with him saying shootings more predictable?
    I’ll never understand why people cheer on the removal of a feature they didn’t have to use.

    mb625
    Gotta strongly, STRONGLY disagree here. Aiming was a fantastic option for those who wanted to use it. If you didn't want to use it, that's cool, you didn't have to, but the flat out REMOVAL of the feature is not a win at all. I'm pretty deeply disappointed, because aiming was the first time where I felt like I was thinking about my shot the way I do on the real life floor. Retaining it as an option wasn't effecting anyone (with the exception of those running into zens, who will be wholly uneffected as they'll find ways to tune those for shot timing rather easily) except those who enjoyed it. Gotta say I feel a bit alienated by that decision.

    Because I've been an avid fan of how the sticks were used for shooting in just about every release pre 2k21.
    Personal preference and all. Holding the stick in any direction always equalled a shot, can't remember the last time it didn't outside of 2k21.
    The option to turn it off left you with two routes - either the button, which is pretty lame, or the stick but with only down as the shooting direction.
    Previous 2k's let you hold the stick in any direction for a J, using the flick mechanism with triggers to modify dribbles. Don't see why they ever changed it. Worked fine.
    The aim scenario was just a distraction. another bar on the screen for user to look at instead of taking in the action on the floor. That's how I felt about it, anyway.
    In terms of what it provided for online players in terms of 'skill gaps' - I have no idea, I only play offline, so it's not about removing these things to aid 'cheese' or something of that regard, or because I couldn't 'get to grips with it'. It just didn't feel intuitive, and took me out of the game.
    "Current and next gen are much more similar on court this year compared to last"
    this is the most miserable s*** to say for all the next gen players.
    dvir10
    "Current and next gen are much more similar on court this year compared to last"
    this is the most miserable s*** to say for all the next gen players.

    Just curious, sincerely - but do you guys actually buy the new consoles just for one game?
    mb625
    They hated it because they a) worked with it for the first weekend, got frustrated and gave up and then b) it was used for zens (which we've established won't be stopped by this change). It wasn't a forced feature. It was an option. A bunch of people not liking an option doesn't mean it should be removed altogether. Online players don't like real player percentage for the most part, that doesn't mean it can't be an option.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    I don't have a personal investment either way, and everything you say about the why may be true, but it's ultimately irrelevant, a removal after year one means that it failed miserably, so much so that they decided that they weren't going to even leave in as an option. That sucks for people who liked it but that was their design decision.
    Like a Vison Cone or Target Passing for Madden, some mechanics just bomb, and they get axed. I would also imaging that they have metrics that show that Real FG% is fairly popular for offline players, so it makes sense that it would stay.
    jfsolo
    I don't have a personal investment either way, and everything you say about the why may be true, but it's ultimately irrelevant, a removal after year one means that it failed miserably, so much so that they decided that they weren't going to even leave in as an option. That sucks for people who liked it but that was their design decision.
    Like a Vison Cone or Target Passing for Madden, some mechanics just bomb, and they get axed. I would also imaging that they have metrics that show that Real FG% is fairly popular for offline players, so it makes sense that it would stay.
    I don't think "failure" is the right term. It was a learning curve, most of the community wanted easy and just didn't try it. It's not an indictment on the mechanic itself (which was *really* intuitive, by the way), but an indictment on the constant community overreaction and 2k's overwillingness to listen to majority rule rather than actually taking into account the people who actually utilized the mechanic.
    Also, perhaps real player FG wasn't the best example. Pass lead is still an option. I don't know many who know what they're doing that don't turn that off. There are tons of other spots where I know the majority don't use the option but are just not as vocal about it.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    illwill10
    I'm an offline player as well. While I did enjoy my time with 2k21 NG, if I were to go back I would pass on it. While I could feel the differences, it still felt like the same 2k.
    It does suck that consoles are still scarce. But, I don't want the same experience for both generations. It just feels like the current gen is being held back by last gen. I just don't want the current gen differences to be visuals and hardware benefits.

    Did you double dip and buy current and next gen versions? I skipped current gen and waited for nextgen and I was glad I did so. Felt like a bigger difference from 2k20 than the current gen version based on the demo. Agree it still felt like 2k but there were subtle differences that made it more than the same game with better graphics.
    mb625
    I don't think "failure" is the right term. It was a learning curve, most of the community wanted easy and just didn't try it. It's not an indictment on the mechanic itself (which was *really* intuitive, by the way), but an indictment on the constant community overreaction and 2k's overwillingness to listen to majority rule rather than actually taking into account the people who actually utilized the mechanic.
    Also, perhaps real player FG wasn't the best example. Pass lead is still an option. I don't know many who know what they're doing that don't turn that off. There are tons of other spots where I know the majority don't use the option but are just not as vocal about it.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    I realize that the word failure seems like an indictment of the mechanic, but it's not, objectively there is noting wrong with it, but if for whatever reason most people hate a new mechanic that is the number one foundation aspect of the game, shooting, it's going to be given a different level of scrutiny. I'm sure that you're right that the non-stop, loud disdain for it did play a sizable part in its complete removal.
    scottyp180
    Did you double dip and buy current and next gen versions? I skipped current gen and waited for nextgen and I was glad I did so. Felt like a bigger difference from 2k20 than the current gen version based on the demo. Agree it still felt like 2k but there were subtle differences that made it more than the same game with better graphics.

    I actually skipped 2k20 and 2k21 current gen. What I meant was some of the core modes didn't feel much improved. Like MyCareer offline was as broken and shallow as it has been for a few years. MYNBA was deep but issues that never got fixed
    mb625
    Gotta strongly, STRONGLY disagree here. Aiming was a fantastic option for those who wanted to use it. If you didn't want to use it, that's cool, you didn't have to, but the flat out REMOVAL of the feature is not a win at all. I'm pretty deeply disappointed, because aiming was the first time where I felt like I was thinking about my shot the way I do on the real life floor. Retaining it as an option wasn't effecting anyone (with the exception of those running into zens, who will be wholly uneffected as they'll find ways to tune those for shot timing rather easily) except those who enjoyed it. Gotta say I feel a bit alienated by that decision.
    The irony in your comment is that they removed some functionality of the right stick to get the shot aiming in.
    ksuttonjr76
    The irony in your comment is that they removed some functionality of the right stick to get the shot aiming in.
    I didn't miss much, if anything, from whatever right stick dribbling was the year before. I can't even tell you what was missing. I legitimately don't know. I'd gladly trade some dribbling mechanics to have the option back.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    daveberg
    Just curious, sincerely - but do you guys actually buy the new consoles just for one game?
    Be smart and stop making it seem like we bought the consoles ONLY to play one game. NBA 2K was the game that motivated me to get my console sooner than later, because remember..."it was the game that was built from the ground up for the next-gen experience.". Did I get fleeced by the marketing? Yeah, I did. Do I regret my purchase of a next-gen console so early? Hell no!
    ksuttonjr76
    The comments about the animations is almost something that I predicted when somebody was arguing for NBA 2K to be a "live service" in the other closed thread.
    Animations are going behind a paywall...

    Which overall does suck. I don't like the direction with the pay wall and grind wall stuff. Bad enough that you start off at 60 OVR with min athleticism and barely any skill to make an immediate impact. That's the one thing I liked about NBA Live's The One mode. At least there, you start over 70 OVR with your physical ratings essentially maxed to start off from.
    I honestly don't blame them for capitalizing on what obviously benefitted them over these years. I can't even imagine how much/many people spend on a player(s) every year. I'm not trying to spend extra money just so my player is competent to start off. I don't try to buy the game until it goes on sale. I'm wondering if we see a Black Friday sale for the next gen versions this year. Normal years, the game goes down to almost 50% off. But with 2 versions, not sure if we will sale a drop in game cost
    mb625
    I didn't miss much, if anything, from whatever right stick dribbling was the year before. I can't even tell you what was missing. I legitimately don't know. I'd gladly trade some dribbling mechanics to have the option back.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Here's the thing though, and I know that I was one of the loudest opponents against the shot stick aiming since Day One. I tried the shot aiming, and I didn't like it. Fine. They gave me the option to turn it off, so I turned it off.
    I'm going to be blunt. The programming of the shot aiming screwed up the shot stick. Turning it off didn't mean that I had the SAME controls like I did in previous NBA 2Ks. Turning it off just really remove the visual cue, but the programming was still in the right stick. In previous 2Ks, I could push the stick in any direction to get any shot I wanted, AND it was responsive. Since you adapted to the shot aiming, you wouldn't know what it feels like "to turn the option off" and how the existence of the shot made the RS feels so much different.
    Even if you turned off THE shot meter off along with the aiming, the overall responsiveness of the RS sucked, and then you were stuck with pushing down to shoot. The existence of shot aiming wasn't a bad idea in itself, but it affected the use of the right stick overall. However, I personally think it's stupid to have a mini game to shoot anyways. I create the best shot opportunity possible, so let me shoot, and I let me live with the outcome.
    Hustle Westbrook
    So, Mike just deleted ALL his recent tweets about new features on the game.
    What type of marketing campaign is this company doing lmao?

    The marketing campaign of "these guys will buy no matter what we tell them anyway" lol but in all seriousness the little bit he said kind of makes this years 2k22 promotion make sense, they basically have to focus on both current and next gen titles evenly due to the next gen consoles being so scarce. I still feel ng will be smoother and not feel the same as current but I am also glad they didn't try to reinvent the whole game for the new console.
    But I'm about to re-download 2k20 to see how the dribbling was because I forgot at this point.
    ksuttonjr76
    Here's the thing though, and I know that I was one of the loudest opponents against the shot stick aiming since Day One. I tried the shot aiming, and I didn't like it. Fine. They gave me the option to turn it off, so I turned it off.
    I'm going to be blunt. The programming of the shot aiming screwed up the shot stick. Turning it off didn't mean that I had the SAME controls like I did in previous NBA 2Ks. Turning it off just really remove the visual cue, but the programming was still in the right stick. In previous 2Ks, I could push the stick in any direction to get any shot I wanted, AND it was responsive. Since you adapted to the shot aiming, you wouldn't know what it feels like "to turn the option off" and how the existence of the shot made the RS feels so much different.
    Even if you turned off THE shot meter off along with the aiming, the overall responsiveness of the RS sucked, and then you were stuck with pushing down to shoot. The existence of shot aiming wasn't a bad idea in itself, but it affected the use of the right stick overall. However, I personally think it's stupid to have a mini game to shoot anyways. I create the best shot opportunity possible, so let me shoot, and I let me live with the outcome.

    First, that's all fixable. All they'd have to do is tweak how the stick worked. It was literally the first year of it.
    Second, I used timing basically exclusively on current gen, so yes, I am aware what playing without it was like. I'm not really a big dribbler, so I didn't notice much if any lack of response time, because I tend to keep my dribbling fairly simple in the first place
    Third, I really felt like that "mini-game"* as you want to put it played right into the fact that I was trying to create the best shot opportunities possible, because the higher quality shots would usually result in a closer aim target. That, plus I felt like I was rewarded for open shots more than I ever was with shot timing. If I missed, it was always very clear why, something I never felt with timing.
    I really do think that this goes to the point that everyone who wanted it gone just didn't like using it in the first place and wrote it off as a response. Those who liked it were very clear about liking it. I haven't heard the argument about dribbling until just now, which tells me it's not a common critique of the system (one which could easily have been worked out if attention had actually been brought to it). In light of all of that, removing the option instead of improving upon it just plain does not make sense in any way.
    *Edit: I should probably address this too because timing felt more "mini game" esque to me than aiming ever did. Think about how you were taught to shoot a basketball. I was taught BEEF, balance, eyes, elbow, follow through. Shooting a basketball is a complex, yet simple motion, and aiming did a great job of replicating it. The balance emulated by finding the center with the stick, the eyes focused on your target, not the player (a hair flawed as it was a separate meter and not the basket, but the point still stands) and the follow through emulated by the LT press to finish off the motion (not to mention that if the stick was slightly off, that follow through could still lead to a made bucket). I felt more like I was thinking about a basketball skill than I ever did staring down my player looking for an "upper cue."
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Mike "having" to delete those Tweets tells you everything that you need to know about how marketing controls the information flow. A few tidbits from the gameplay lead weren't even allowed to stay out there early, oof.
    mb625
    First, that's all fixable. All they'd have to do is tweak how the stick worked. It was literally the first year of it.
    Second, I used timing basically exclusively on current gen, so yes, I am aware what playing without it was like. I'm not really a big dribbler, so I didn't notice much if any lack of response time, because I tend to keep my dribbling fairly simple in the first place
    Third, I really felt like that "mini-game"* as you want to put it played right into the fact that I was trying to create the best shot opportunities possible, because the higher quality shots would usually result in a closer aim target. That, plus I felt like I was rewarded for open shots more than I ever was with shot timing. If I missed, it was always very clear why, something I never felt with timing.
    I really do think that this goes to the point that everyone who wanted it gone just didn't like using it in the first place and wrote it off as a response. Those who liked it were very clear about liking it. I haven't heard the argument about dribbling until just now, which tells me it's not a common critique of the system (one which could easily have been worked out if attention had actually been brought to it). In light of all of that, removing the option instead of improving upon it just plain does not make sense in any way.
    *Edit: I should probably address this too because timing felt more "mini game" esque to me than aiming ever did. Think about how you were taught to shoot a basketball. I was taught BEEF, balance, eyes, elbow, follow through. Shooting a basketball is a complex, yet simple motion, and aiming did a great job of replicating it. The balance emulated by finding the center with the stick, the eyes focused on your target, not the player (a hair flawed as it was a separate meter and not the basket, but the point still stands) and the follow through emulated by the LT press to finish off the motion (not to mention that if the stick was slightly off, that follow through could still lead to a made bucket). I felt more like I was thinking about a basketball skill than I ever did staring down my player looking for an "upper cue."
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    I’ve never heard the dribbling critique anywhere. The main reason the feature was criticized were all the zens online+ content creators spreading the word.
    Like I’ve said before even after 2k patched aiming scripts zens we’re still around as models just made timing scripts instead.
    We can only hope precision shooting is something similar.
    mb625
    First, that's all fixable. All they'd have to do is tweak how the stick worked. It was literally the first year of it.
    Second, I used timing basically exclusively on current gen, so yes, I am aware what playing without it was like. I'm not really a big dribbler, so I didn't notice much if any lack of response time, because I tend to keep my dribbling fairly simple in the first place
    Third, I really felt like that "mini-game"* as you want to put it played right into the fact that I was trying to create the best shot opportunities possible, because the higher quality shots would usually result in a closer aim target. That, plus I felt like I was rewarded for open shots more than I ever was with shot timing. If I missed, it was always very clear why, something I never felt with timing.
    I really do think that this goes to the point that everyone who wanted it gone just didn't like using it in the first place and wrote it off as a response. Those who liked it were very clear about liking it. I haven't heard the argument about dribbling until just now, which tells me it's not a common critique of the system (one which could easily have been worked out if attention had actually been brought to it). In light of all of that, removing the option instead of improving upon it just plain does not make sense in any way.
    *Edit: I should probably address this too because timing felt more "mini game" esque to me than aiming ever did. Think about how you were taught to shoot a basketball. I was taught BEEF, balance, eyes, elbow, follow through. Shooting a basketball is a complex, yet simple motion, and aiming did a great job of replicating it. The balance emulated by finding the center with the stick, the eyes focused on your target, not the player (a hair flawed as it was a separate meter and not the basket, but the point still stands) and the follow through emulated by the LT press to finish off the motion (not to mention that if the stick was slightly off, that follow through could still lead to a made bucket). I felt more like I was thinking about a basketball skill than I ever did staring down my player looking for an "upper cue."
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    I can't speak on whether or not it was a fixable feature. I just know the programming of shot aiming impacted my use of the right stick in a very negative manner. I don't know how anyone couldn't notice the millisecond(s) delay when they used the RS without the shot aiming. I've been using the shot stick since Day 1 (NBA 2K6), so I could be just a more advanced user of the right stick compared to you, so it's just easy for me to notice when the right sick is "off".
    I like simulation basketball just as much as the next person. However, sometimes too much is too much. I don't care what I learned as a basketball player when it comes to the physical elements for shooting a shot. The mini game took my focus off other aspects of the game. I mostly play PNO , so I take the time to learn the shot timing of all the players on my team, and I shoot "in rhythm" or through muscle memory in online matches. As result, I can shoot the ball while focusing on other things that was happening on the court. I'm sorry, but the short amount of time I'm waiting for the stick to respond then having to watch the aiming is killing my immersion with the game while stopping me from planning my next move after the release of the ball. To me, the shot aiming forces tunnel vision, and I don't like that. I want to "trust" my muscle memory for a shot release (and live with the results) instead hunting for the "green/perfect" release via a mini game.
    You want a viable accountability for a missed or made shot. I just want to ball and let the outcomes lie where they fall. I don't want to play a game where if I continue to perfect a videogame mechanic, I become a "skilled" player. I want a game that forces me to move to another tactic when one fails.
    jfsolo
    Mike "having" to delete those Tweets tells you everything that you need to know about how marketing controls the information flow. A few tidbits from the gameplay lead weren't even allowed to stay out there early, oof.
    Too bad that what's on the internet stays forever.
    ksuttonjr76
    Too bad that what's on the internet stays forever.

    The hardcore people will talk about it for a little while, but it will float out of the brains of most folks that saw it and will seem new when rereleased in the next few weeks.
    jfsolo
    Mike "having" to delete those Tweets tells you everything that you need to know about how marketing controls the information flow. A few tidbits from the gameplay lead weren't even allowed to stay out there early, oof.
    I might be crazy but I swear I just saw that Ronnie Singh is also involved in a sketchy Twitter fight with Bradley Beal's wife.
    https://twitter.com/KamiahAdams/status/1429190844158861312?s=19
    That's where we stand at the moment. Actual information regarding the game deleted and swapped out for Twitter beef with player wives.
    VDusen04
    I might be crazy but I swear I just saw that Ronnie Singh is also involved in a sketchy Twitter fight with Bradley Beal's wife.
    https://twitter.com/KamiahAdams/status/1429190844158861312?s=19
    That's where we stand at the moment. Actual information regarding the game deleted and swapped out for Twitter beef with player wives.

    He probably thought he was being funny with his tweet. I have always found him to be obnoxious and out of touch with the community
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Why are some of you happy last and current have the same animations lol. Thats kinda selfish. How we go from built from the ground up to the same animations
    haloofduty
    Why are some of you happy last and current have the same animations lol. Thats kinda selfish. How we go from built from the ground up to the same animations
    I would presume that some saw it as the last gen not being left behind just yet. Though the other side would be that it's a sign that next-gen isn't taking advantage of its power.
    I don't have anything to contribute regarding the built-from-the-ground-up comment. I feel like I've been seeing that phrase tossed around since the days of the XBox 360.
    ksuttonjr76
    I can't speak on whether or not it was a fixable feature. I just know the programming of shot aiming impacted my use of the right stick in a very negative manner. I don't know how anyone couldn't notice the millisecond(s) delay when they used the RS without the shot aiming. I've been using the shot stick since Day 1 (NBA 2K6), so I could be just a more advanced user of the right stick compared to you, so it's just easy for me to notice when the right sick is "off".
    I like simulation basketball just as much as the next person. However, sometimes too much is too much. I don't care what I learned as a basketball player when it comes to the physical elements for shooting a shot. The mini game took my focus off other aspects of the game. I mostly play PNO , so I take the time to learn the shot timing of all the players on my team, and I shoot "in rhythm" or through muscle memory in online matches. As result, I can shoot the ball while focusing on other things that was happening on the court. I'm sorry, but the short amount of time I'm waiting for the stick to respond then having to watch the aiming is killing my immersion with the game while stopping me from planning my next move after the release of the ball. To me, the shot aiming forces tunnel vision, and I don't like that. I want to "trust" my muscle memory for a shot release (and live with the results) instead hunting for the "green/perfect" release via a mini game.
    You want a viable accountability for a missed or made shot. I just want to ball and let the outcomes lie where they fall. I don't want to play a game where if I continue to perfect a videogame mechanic, I become a "skilled" player. I want a game that forces me to move to another tactic when one fails.
    For sure. I'm just trying to point out that for some, the rhythm of the stick fit right in with finding that shot. Makes it a real disappointment to see it gone now. It'd be one thing if the programming issue you have was to blame, but instead, it's gotten the axe to fix a problem that isn't actually going to be fixed by the removal of the stick.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    haloofduty
    Why are some of you happy last and current have the same animations lol. Thats kinda selfish. How we go from built from the ground up to the same animations
    I agree. That's kinda the whole point of getting a better console...to get the better "features'. If I wanted XB1/PS4 gameplay, then I would stuck with the previous generation. They can still improve on the previous generation without sacrificing on the next-gen version.
    I loved shot aiming. Really sad to see it gone.
    Especially tough because it seems like the driving force is the zen thing and like others have said, getting rid of aiming isn't fixing that problem.
    But I get it for the players that didn't like the overall changes they made to the stick this year. I was typically a button shooter before 2K21, so I didn't really miss not being able to trigger shots with the stick in any direction. But I've heard enough from people on OS to know it made the stick much less intuitive for a bunch of people.
    Think the biggest frustration is everyone could be happy if the did a better job retaining old control options even as the introduced new ones. It's one of the I like most about The Show. They typically don't trash old control schemes because they know people might end up preferring them to the new thing.
    As someone that played all last year with no meter and a clean screen, seeing that the vibration feedback has been taken out is concerning. Guess I’ll wait and see how it feels without it.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    franzis
    Such a big big disappointment hearing current and next gen will be basically the same gameplay wise.
    I did hope that the launch of next gen was the opportunity to redisign and improve some of the core mechanics, including rating and tendency systems, as well as to get a big leap in CPU AI thanks to the new hardware.
    But it seems that it won't be the case... they will just focus on pleasing the "community" who don't give a f* about realistic bball.
    I already skipped 2k21 and honestly I wonder if I will ever buy a Nba 2k title again.

    Well to be fair, NBA 2K14 for ps3 and ps4 were basically the same as well outside of better foot planting and some other small details. We didn’t really start to see a big change in gameplay until 2K16. So we’re a little late this generation, but the scarcity of the Ps5 and series x consoles are to blame for that I truly believe. Since a lot less people have migrated over to current gen, they still have to make sure last gen is a big seller as the vast majority of the player base is still over there.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    So glad I decided to hold out for next-gen on PC instead of getting a next-gen console right off the bat. Seems current- & next-gen are going to be pretty similar for as long as both versions exist, so no big loss staying on current-gen until PC gets next-gen.
    2k logic is like:
    WWE 2K22 release date: March 22, “release trailer now!”
    NBA 2K22 release date: September 21, “mmmm let’s wait few more weeks”
    vetmin
    So glad I decided to hold out for next-gen on PC instead of getting a next-gen console right off the bat. Seems current- & next-gen are going to be pretty similar for as long as both versions exist, so no big loss staying on current-gen until PC gets next-gen.

    The physics engine with blocks and charges was quite a bit different.
    vetmin
    So glad I decided to hold out for next-gen on PC instead of getting a next-gen console right off the bat. Seems current- & next-gen are going to be pretty similar for as long as both versions exist, so no big loss staying on current-gen until PC gets next-gen.

    It does feel like for most sports next gen games(not just 2k), that we won't see that full "next gen experience" until 2023 when last gen is fully left behind.
    daveberg
    Just curious, sincerely - but do you guys actually buy the new consoles just for one game?

    *raises hand in shame*
    As much as i complain, they got me hooked brothers. Certified 2K junkie
    I bought a next gen console just for 2K. I just wanted a basketball game fix and don’t have the time to dedicate to multiple games. Plus I have the Series S which means it has barely enough memory for a bunch of games.
    IDK if y'all remember the Twitter poll Mike Wang ran on shot aiming but 86% of voters (138k votes) said they didn't want it in 2k22. I generally prefer disabling features by default rather than eliminating them completely, but I'm not surprised it's gone.
    I also applaud their commitment to 4th gen consoles. PS5s and XSX's are still scarce so there will be a lot of aspiring next gen gamers who don't have next gen consoles. There's nothing Mike Wang said about gameplay mechanics that sounds as if they're limited by what 4th gen can do, so I don't see the problem. He also mentioned other things like foot planting, movement, and of course we know presentation and game modes are different on 5th gen.
    Baebae32
    *raises hand in shame*
    As much as i complain, they got me hooked brothers. Certified 2K junkie

    AIRJ23
    I bought a next gen console just for 2K. I just wanted a basketball game fix and don’t have the time to dedicate to multiple games. Plus I have the Series S which means it has barely enough memory for a bunch of games.

    Fair enough, no judgement - I was legitimately intrigued if people did indeed buy consoles for one specific game only.
    Bit extreme for me, but so long a you guys are happy doing it, that's all that counts.
    I play a lot of 2k, but tend to play tons of other stuff, too, so the PS5 was a no brainer for me, especially with massive back catalogue of PS4 games left over.
    milkmanbonzai
    RIP shot aiming, 2K's equivalent of Madden's ill-fated Vision Cone
    This was nothing like the Vision Cone. Aiming was a very intuitive system for those who used it, whereas I don't remember the Vision Cone being nearly as intuitive. The reason it got the axe wasn't because it was bad gameplay design, like the Vision Cone. It got axed because it became the scapegoat for zens, which, as mentioned, will exist regardless. The Vision Cone died because it was flawed. Aiming, especially on next gen wasn't flawed in the slightest. People just thought it was being used for cheating and reacted against it (I had a few opponents on next gen, where the scripts didn't even exist yet, think the same) or they just didn't really practice with it and did the same.
    Any comparison to the vision cone here is just way, way off.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Hassan Darkside
    IDK if y'all remember the Twitter poll Mike Wang ran on shot aiming but 86% of voters (138k votes) said they didn't want it in 2k22. I generally prefer disabling features by default rather than eliminating them completely, but I'm not surprised it's gone.
    I also applaud their commitment to 4th gen consoles. PS5s and XSX's are still scarce so there will be a lot of aspiring next gen gamers who don't have next gen consoles. There's nothing Mike Wang said about gameplay mechanics that sounds as if they're limited by what 4th gen can do, so I don't see the problem. He also mentioned other things like foot planting, movement, and of course we know presentation and game modes are different on 5th gen.
    Yes. I remember that vividly. As mentioned, the majority of the community believed it to be THE reason for the popularity of zens. The majority of the community didn't understand the system themselves. If you look at the replys, all of them are either about zens, or they're people who used the system legitimately and liked it. There's basically no in between. They listened to mob rule on this one, I'm afraid.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    daveberg
    Fair enough, no judgement - I was legitimately intrigued if people did indeed buy consoles for one specific game only.
    Bit extreme for me, but so long a you guys are happy doing it, that's all that counts.
    I play a lot of 2k, but tend to play tons of other stuff, too, so the PS5 was a no brainer for me, especially with massive back catalogue of PS4 games left over.
    I'm sorry. To me, the concept of "I'm not going to buy the next gen console until this particular game drops" doesn't seem that uncommon to me. My game was NBA 2K21. Some people could be waiting for Halo Infinite to drop before they purchase the next gen console (obviously, subject to availability). I would like to think that most people are aware of the overall advantages of having the next gen console, so they purchase it according to when they feel like purchasing it.
    Zens never factored in for me, at all, being an exclusive offline player. I could care less about online cheese or cheaters. I don't have to worry about those shenanigans, luckily, but feel for those of you who do.
    Personally I thought the shot aiming was cumbersome and took away the full functionality of the shot stick. Not to mention added yet another distraction on screen, making it feel even more arcade like.
    The options to revert to other control schemes were lacking, either being forced to use the lackluster button or only given 'down' on the stick as an option to shoot.
    Considering the shot stick has been the same for years, in terms of holding it in any direction to shoot, then stripping us of that after all this time - was a lot to digest after so many years of a very familiar system.
    I could've progressed with it, not like it was hard to grasp, but it simply didn't feel like an effective way to shoot compared to years past, and was nothing short of a further distraction, as mentioned.
    Glad they're leaning more towards 2k20's controls. Will feel much more like 'home' in that regard. For me, anyway.
    ksuttonjr76
    I'm sorry. To me, the concept of "I'm not going to buy the next gen console until this particular game drops" doesn't seem that uncommon to me. My game was NBA 2K21. Some people could be waiting for Halo Infinite to drop before they purchase the next gen console (obviously, subject to availability). I would like to think that most people are aware of the overall advantages of having the next gen console, so they purchase it according to when they feel like purchasing it.

    That's fine if that's how you see it. Seems odd to me. Plenty of stuff to be playing in the interim, but then, it all depends on if you're into other games. If you're not, then the choice to hold off is understandable.
    I don't buy consoles on the premise of purchasing just a single game. There's tons of stuff out there I've got on the go right now, next to 2K. I'd personally feel like I'd be wasting money if I purchased my PS5 for a solitary game, but to each their own.
    As someone who didn't play 2k21, can someone explain in a simple way what shot aiming is? Whatever it was, if the developers feel it was great and it was only an option, then I really don't understand taking it out. 2k in general seems very insecure and very little seems to come from their own wish to make things better.
    So if not enough people speak up, things will stay the same. Like my most wanted wish of more passing options, it's been 20+ years since it's inception and not once have they even tried. Guaranteed if they'd give us more options to throw accurate passes, with control over speed and the way it's thrown, I'm sure there will be lots of praise. Not in the least because it limits the amount of dumb fast break passes and passes that get intercepted by the CPU.
    I think fans having this much influence on a game is the most concerning, it's like NRS giving fans a DLC character for Mortal Kombat because hundreds of people whine and curse out developers about the inclusion of their favourite, even reacting to personal tweets about someone dying etc. The one time it really worked out was for Sonic the Hedgehog movie where the design was so bad and so far off what we know, that the backlash was deserved and luckily they listened.
    I appreciate for developers in general to listen to fan bases, but the gaming community has become so vocal, toxic and influential that they almost have to listen. Especially in the fighting game community with YouTube and Twitch professionals get paid big sponsor money to speak about games and if they dislike it, then that's bad publicity they cannot afford. Luckily 2k is not in the position of losing fans over this, their game has a monopoly on the market.
    However, not having any competition has caused 2k to be a bit lazy in my opinion in really bringing the game to another level. Rather they focus on gimmicks and cater to online casual players, so you get grand theft auto like modes and a card game. The offline player and accuracy and control of players then gets devalued and in fact neglected to a certain degree. Classic teams and players looks, tendencies and ratings for example.
    2k goes for sexy, flashy, which I cannot fault them for necessarily, but a 75th anniversary game with no focus on anything classic is odd. Also with 2 weeks left, still no trailer or blog posts, WTF?! You expect people to pre-order when we get some info through a tweet reaction that gets deleted right after...I mean come on, nobody can excuse 2k at this point for their strategy at least. As far as improving the game, sure they tweak things here and there, but all these gimmicks like green release etc. just seem like such a waste of time and money.
    Just try to work on the fundamental aspects of the game and make sure you as developers think it's the best it can be. Be confident in the quality of your product and forget about whiny fans - including me. The changes post release to the point where the game you start off with plays so different only a few months later needs to stop. As far as confidence, I think one of the reasons 2k changes so much, is because they really are not themselves happy with the product and for good reason.
    As great as 2k looks and plays, there's still some simple options they could and should add that would go a much longer way in being a great basketball game than focusing on gimmicks, all these online modes that have very little to do with the game of basketball, and changing aspects for the sake of change or because fans 'demand' it. The catering to fans is a double-edged sword, you kind of allow people to think they have power so they will continue to demand and ask for changes.
    I will continue to hope we will get more options to control the players, but after 20+ years, I'm not hopeful, since most people will buy it regardless. Unless EA comes back with a bang. I'm actually really disappointed the most with next gen consoles not add another stick or more buttons to give some of these games like NBA2k the opportunity to add more options. There's only so much developers can do with 8 buttons. It might actually a miracle that they've given us as many options as they have.
    I'll try to appreciate the game, but I haven't bought NBA2k upon release since 16. Probably 2k's peak aside from the early games is 2011-2014. My favorite is still 2k8, followed by 2k12 and 13. I've bought 2k18 and 19 at some point, but returned 18 after 1-2 weeks, bought and enjoyed NBA live 2018 much more. Played 19 for quite a while for the lack of alternatives, but actually since 2013/14 there hasn't been much to cheer about.
    The only significant changes are more classic players / teams, overall graphics and some minor additions like an extra assistant coach and more accurate GM / owner experience (contracts, relocation, control over all teams etc.) and more options commentary wise. Adding a fulltime crew in Hill & Anderson was the most significant and impactful move in 10 years imo. Maybe 2k22 will surprise us, but I feel it might take until 24/25 to really get something revolutionary to make me truly come back to it.
    daveberg
    That's fine if that's how you see it. Seems odd to me. Plenty of stuff to be playing in the interim, but then, it all depends on if you're into other games. If you're not, then the choice to hold off is understandable.
    I don't buy consoles on the premise of purchasing just a single game. There's tons of stuff out there I've got on the go right now, next to 2K. I'd personally feel like I'd be wasting money if I purchased my PS5 for a solitary game, but to each their own.

    You're taking this way too literal. You actually think that people only have NBA 2K21 in their library and no other games to play. There's a difference between buying a next-gen console to play only and only one game on it versus buying a console because you want to experience the next-gen version of your favorite game.
    With backwards compatibility and Xbox Game Pass, it's impossible to purchase a next-gen console without having other games to play.
    daveberg
    Zens never factored in for me, at all, being an exclusive offline player. I could care less about online cheese or cheaters. I don't have to worry about those shenanigans, luckily, but feel for those of you who do.
    Personally I thought the shot aiming was cumbersome and took away the full functionality of the shot stick. Not to mention added yet another distraction on screen, making it feel even more arcade like.
    The options to revert to other control schemes were lacking, either being forced to use the lackluster button or only given 'down' on the stick as an option to shoot.
    Considering the shot stick has been the same for years, in terms of holding it in any direction to shoot, then stripping us of that after all this time - was a lot to digest after so many years of a very familiar system.
    I could've progressed with it, not like it was hard to grasp, but it simply didn't feel like an effective way to shoot compared to years past, and was nothing short of a further distraction, as mentioned.
    Glad they're leaning more towards 2k20's controls. Will feel much more like 'home' in that regard. For me, anyway.
    Right and I understand that. But the issue is that if *that* was the issue for most, it could have stayed with adjustments with that flaw in mind. I never noticed that because, as noted, I was mostly a button shooter myself with a few exceptions. The stick did not change anything for me (in fact, shooting around the basket was basically the same as in current gen with the option to turn the meter off entirely and just go by ratings). It's one thing if people wanted that functionality, but that was not who was typically responding to the poll. I am now aware of all of two cases where this is the reasoning to want the removal of aiming from the game. So, then, I think it's fair to have another look at that number from that poll. Of the 86%, I'd say about 76 either just a) didn't understand the mechanic and/or b) associated it with the elimination of zen use (which is incorrect, since zens can also utilize timing). About 10 percent legitimately wanted the stick to function the way it did in 20 (seems fair, as again, this is the first time I'm hearing any of that) and then about 14 percent liked it.
    When you put it in these terms... It kinda sounds like it should have stayed as an option, no??
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Goffs
    Shot aiming should've been for offline mode only. I would use that but not against some cheater online.
    Again, cheating is not necessarily limited to the aiming mechanic. In fact, the center script didn't even exist (to my knowledge) on next gen. Excellent timing scripts, however, did...
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    ksuttonjr76
    You're taking this way too literal. You actually think that people only have NBA 2K21 in their library and no other games to play. There's a difference between buying a next-gen console to play only and only one game on it versus buying a console because you want to experience the next-gen version of your favorite game.
    With backwards compatibility and Xbox Game Pass, it's impossible to purchase a next-gen console without having other games to play.

    It's really not a big deal. I simply asked a legitimate question and engaged with the responses. I was merely curious as it genuinely sounds like all some of you care about is NBA 2k and literally nothing else would encourage you to buy a console other than one particular game.
    It is what it is. Doesn't effect me either way. Like I said, merely wondering if that was even a 'thing'.
    mb625
    Right and I understand that. But the issue is that if *that* was the issue for most, it could have stayed with adjustments with that flaw in mind. I never noticed that because, as noted, I was mostly a button shooter myself with a few exceptions. The stick did not change anything for me (in fact, shooting around the basket was basically the same as in current gen with the option to turn the meter off entirely and just go by ratings). It's one thing if people wanted that functionality, but that was not who was typically responding to the poll. I am now aware of all of two cases where this is the reasoning to want the removal of aiming from the game. So, then, I think it's fair to have another look at that number from that poll. Of the 86%, I'd say about 76 either just a) didn't understand the mechanic and/or b) associated it with the elimination of zen use (which is incorrect, since zens can also utilize timing). About 10 percent legitimately wanted the stick to function the way it did in 20 (seems fair, as again, this is the first time I'm hearing any of that) and then about 14 percent liked it.
    When you put it in these terms... It kinda sounds like it should have stayed as an option, no??
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    That's fair.
    I'm all for more options, completely. That way we all get a chance at our preferred mechanics, if, of course, it's feasible for the game to be designed in that manner. I don't have the first clue in terms of how difficult that would be to incorporate.
    If 2K21 had the option to revert to full 2k20 controls, I would've kept the game, no doubt.
    Honestly, about 95% of the games I’ve been playing on my PS5 have been either PS4 games or cross-gen games available on both systems (Miles Morales, COD etc.).
    Ironically, 2K21 might be the only game I’ve played that was a new next-gen experience. I don’t think a PS5 is worth it right now imo.
    Anybody can just type some BS, I need to see it for myself. Their should be a demo out by now
    These people act like they have goodwill with consumers
    MoneyOvaHuds
    Over a 2k rating Ronnie has no control over Beal wife is mad annoying

    I'm not really a fan of Ronnie but people come at him like he's responsible for every aspect of the game when he's basically just a messenger. Must be obnoxious dealing with it year after year. I don't expect a player's wife to understand Ronnie's role but when it's coming from the actual 2K community it just show how ill informed some of the fanbase is and unfortunately I feel like these are the opinions 2K values most these days.
    scottyp180
    I'm not really a fan of Ronnie but people come at him like he's responsible for every aspect of the game when he's basically just a messenger. Must be obnoxious dealing with it year after year. I don't expect a player's wife to understand Ronnie's role but when it's coming from the actual 2K community it just show how ill informed some of the fanbase is and unfortunately I feel like these are the opinions 2K values most these days.

    Anyone who is public facing will get the wrath of the gaming community, especially if they aren't sycophantic toward their specific community, they become the poster child for everything wrong with the game.
    Masai
    Anybody can just type some BS, I need to see it for myself. Their should be a demo out by now
    These people act like they have goodwill with consumers

    There should be a demo out by now based on what? The majority of games these days don't receive demos at all. We've been pretty fortunate that 2K is one of the few games that has consistently released free demos over the years.
    Does anyone really expect any company or business to be consumer friendly or have actual good will towards costumers? Their goal is to make money. Any perceived "consumer friendliness" is just PR and marketing to get more sales. No one should expect these companies to be their friends.
    rudyjuly2
    The physics engine with blocks and charges was quite a bit different.

    Oh I’m sure next-gen is noticeably better, but with all the ‘built from the ground up’ stuff I thought I might be missing out on some radically new-and-improved bball gaming experience until it came to PC. Ultimately it’d have been worth it to wait, since next-gen with mods will eventually be the best possible way to play, but it still stinks to feel like you’re missing out.
    That said, big picture-wise, I wish I were missing out on something... because that would mean there were something really significant to look forward to. As it stands, the ‘REAL nex-gen’ 2k experience is purely theoretical, and I have my doubts that it’s anything but just a fantasy (i.e., they could still just be tweaking and re-painting the same basic game for 2k23, 24, & 25 for all we know)...
    Yallasama
    As someone who didn't play 2k21, can someone explain in a simple way what shot aiming is? Whatever it was, if the developers feel it was great and it was only an option, then I really don't understand taking it out. 2k in general seems very insecure and very little seems to come from their own wish to make things better.

    I’m a Real Player % diehard, but I did prefer aiming to shot timing. My takeaway from what Mike Wang said though is that it wasn’t popular enough to maintain, i.e., in the sense of having to devote man-hours to making sure that aiming—even if left as-is—is compatible with other changes to the game. What if they make a change to the way shot timing works and it causes aiming to get all glitchy? Then they have to resolve that issue, and they seem to think that aiming is too niche to be worth the trouble. I get that, honestly.
    vetmin
    I’m a Real Player % diehard, but I did prefer aiming to shot timing. My takeaway from what Mike Wang said though is that it wasn’t popular enough to maintain, i.e., in the sense of having to devote man-hours to making sure that aiming—even if left as-is—is compatible with other changes to the game. What if they make a change to the way shot timing works and it causes aiming to get all glitchy? Then they have to resolve that issue, and they seem to think that aiming is too niche to be worth the trouble. I get that, honestly.

    When it comes to Real Player% does user input matter at all or will the result be the same regardless of how long or quick you hold the shot stick/button? I've used shot timing for as long as it's been an option so I don't know exactly how Real Player% works.
    Hustle Westbrook
    Honestly, about 95% of the games I’ve been playing on my PS5 have been either PS4 games or cross-gen games available on both systems (Miles Morales, COD etc.).
    Ironically, 2K21 might be the only game I’ve played that was a new next-gen experience. I don’t think a PS5 is worth it right now imo.

    PS5 next-gen experience is the controllers but 2K hasn’t fully utilized it correctly yet. I’ll give 2K25 or 26 to fully utilize controller to its full potential and even the graphics too.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Hustle Westbrook
    Honestly, about 95% of the games I’ve been playing on my PS5 have been either PS4 games or cross-gen games available on both systems (Miles Morales, COD etc.).
    Ironically, 2K21 might be the only game I’ve played that was a new next-gen experience. I don’t think a PS5 is worth it right now imo.

    That's kinda my indirect point that I'm making about purchasing a next-gen console for one game. At the time I bought my XBSX, I thought NBA 2K 21 was the only game that was providing a "next-gen experience". Admittedly, I was suckered by the fancy marketing PR of "built from the ground up for next gen". It is what it is, but I don't regret my overall purchase.
    The "quick resume", enhanced resolution/FPS, and quick loading still made getting the next gen console worth it. Hell, I believe the "quick resume" is a game changer. There is no way I could go back to resuming a game that was I playing and having to wait for the menus to load again. There is something extremely convenient about picking up exactly where you left off.
    I'll tell people all the time. If you don't mind the current graphical appearance of games and the loading times on your PS4/XB1, then you're really not missing anything. They're have been a couple of solid games here and there (I would highly recommend Control:UE), but none that I would consider a "true" next-gen experience.
    ksuttonjr76
    You're taking this way too literal. You actually think that people only have NBA 2K21 in their library and no other games to play. There's a difference between buying a next-gen console to play only and only one game on it versus buying a console because you want to experience the next-gen version of your favorite game.
    With backwards compatibility and Xbox Game Pass, it's impossible to purchase a next-gen console without having other games to play.

    Also everyone keeps going on about gamepass but if you have missed out on the ps4 then the PS5 playstation plus collection is an absurd value giving you instant access to many of Sony's best games from the generation at no extra cost. Assuming you buy plastation plus to play online and such.
    BQ32
    Also everyone keeps going on about gamepass but if you have missed out on the ps4 then the PS5 playstation plus collection is an absurd value giving you instant access to many of Sony's best games from the generation at no extra cost. Assuming you buy plastation plus to play online and such.
    Both companies made the smart decision of backwards compatibility. It made the purchase of a next gen console that much more of a no brainer for me, because I pretty much have my entire digital library from the previous generation. Between Game Pass and my personal digital library, I had 250+ games (this is not an exaggeration) going into the next generation. Hence, I'm not sure why the other poster is stuck on people buying a next-gen console for "1 game".
    drugsbunny
    If they don’t have an option for shot aiming, I’m not playing it this year

    Likewise, if precision shooting isn’t similar I can’t go back to tapping square.
    Goffs
    Shot aiming should've been for offline mode only. I would use that but not against some cheater online.

    They should make square offline only as well than using that logic. Y’all still don’t realize zens work with square and have for years?
    loso_34
    They should make square offline only as well than using that logic. Y’all still don’t realize zens work with square and have for years?
    Ffs...I like the shot aiming since I can finally get a grasp on hook shots and fade aways. 2k could've kept it for offline use only.
    Wtf would your solution be? Real shot percentage for online? All I'm getting is that online completely ruined the game for offline gaming. Innovation is gone because of online.
    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
    Goffs
    Ffs...I like the shot aiming since I can finally get a grasp on hook shots and fade aways. 2k could've kept it for offline use only.
    Wtf would your solution be? Real shot percentage for online? All I'm getting is that online completely ruined the game for offline gaming. Innovation is gone because of online.
    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

    ... it's feasible to keep for online too. The fact of the matter is that there really isn't a "solution" to zens online and aiming was just a scapegoat.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    scottyp180
    When it comes to Real Player% does user input matter at all or will the result be the same regardless of how long or quick you hold the shot stick/button? I've used shot timing for as long as it's been an option so I don't know exactly how Real Player% works.

    By and large it doesn’t matter, but on close-range falling-away sorts of shots you can kinda hang and delay releasing the shot to let a jumping defender pass—at least it feels that way to me; could be placebo or just a canned animation that doesn’t feel canned in the course of a game.
    I don’t know how you guys use shot aiming. In that quick amount of time to somehow finesse the stick to perfectly match the line? It just jolts to one side or the other for me.
    What I did do is turn the shot meter off. So now I’m just shooting with no meter and user timing. It’s awesome as it feels so much more natural and immersive. I can actually see and feel jumpshots now and not a generic meter.
    AIRJ23
    I don’t know how you guys use shot aiming. In that quick amount of time to somehow finesse the stick to perfectly match the line? It just jolts to one side or the other for me.
    What I did do is turn the shot meter off. So now I’m just shooting with no meter and user timing. It’s awesome as it feels so much more natural and immersive. I can actually see and feel jumpshots now and not a generic meter.
    In theory, the closer you are to center when you pull down on the stick, the less moving back and forth you should have to do.
    ksuttonjr76
    In theory, the closer you are to center when you pull down on the stick, the less moving back and forth you should have to do.

    But didnt they change it so you always had to swipe left or right, depending on how fast you initially pulled the right stick down?
    All 30 members of our online league went back to shot timing. In somewhat competitive matches, you cannot keep up with someone who uses shot timing...
    mb625
    Gotta strongly, STRONGLY disagree here. Aiming was a fantastic option for those who wanted to use it. If you didn't want to use it, that's cool, you didn't have to, but the flat out REMOVAL of the feature is not a win at all. I'm pretty deeply disappointed, because aiming was the first time where I felt like I was thinking about my shot the way I do on the real life floor. Retaining it as an option wasn't effecting anyone (with the exception of those running into zens, who will be wholly uneffected as they'll find ways to tune those for shot timing rather easily) except those who enjoyed it. Gotta say I feel a bit alienated by that decision.

    News bruh, you just exposed your elementary skill level if you on the court "thinking" about your shot.
    lemarflacco
    News bruh, you just exposed your elementary skill level if you on the court "thinking" about your shot.

    Imo everyone "thinks" about their shot but that thinking process is usually extremely quick. A lot of it is based on muscle memory.
    With shot aiming there was just too much to process for me. I'm supposed to be controlling the best basketball players in the world but something as simple as a wide open jumper became more complicated than simply "shoot the ball." I shouldn't struggle doing something in a videogame that I can do IRL without much thought at all. I gave it sometime but it just didn't seem worth learning when I could simply rely on shot timing and not have to stare at a meter every time I shot the ball, which isn't required for shot timing.
    lemarflacco
    News bruh, you just exposed your elementary skill level if you on the court "thinking" about your shot.
    I mean... I'm not that great but it was just a manner of speaking. Lol. I'm just saying that the quick nature of aiming was similar to the natural process that takes place in the shooter's head in that split second they're taking place. It's what you're thinking about (albeit, extremely quickly).
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    scottyp180
    Imo everyone "thinks" about their shot but that thinking process is usually extremely quick. A lot of it is based on muscle memory.
    With shot aiming there was just too much to process for me. I'm supposed to be controlling the best basketball players in the world but something as simple as a wide open jumper became more complicated than simply "shoot the ball." I shouldn't struggle doing something in a videogame that I can do IRL without much thought at all. I gave it sometime but it just didn't seem worth learning when I could simply rely on shot timing and not have to stare at a meter every time I shot the ball, which isn't required for shot timing.

    Like I said, for me, the focus on the meter was part of what made it feel more "real" to me than timing. I was watching the target (rim irl, meter here) rather than my shooter's hand/legs. Plus I really felt like aiming got to a muscle memory point for me, which was nice as well.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    ksuttonjr76
    In theory, the closer you are to center when you pull down on the stick, the less moving back and forth you should have to do.
    They changed this.....multiple times
    That's why I preferred the original incarnations of shot aiming.
    Aiming wasn't the ONLY tool cheaters used, but the original concept made scripts really easy to make..
    Aiming definitely wasn't impossible to use competitively though:
    https://youtu.be/_zsVjvjn310
    Rob has even more examples. He stuck with the aiming longer than me. I wasn't a fan of the latest version.
    A lot of people are mentioning watching meter, but whether it be aiming or timing, I rather go with the feel.....I play with it off.
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
    The 24th Letter
    They changed this.....multiple times
    That's why I preferred the original incarnations of shot aiming.
    Aiming wasn't the ONLY tool cheaters used, but the original concept made scripts really easy to make..
    Aiming definitely wasn't impossible to use competitively though:
    https://youtu.be/_zsVjvjn310
    Rob has even more examples. He stuck with the aiming longer than me. I wasn't a fan of the latest version.
    A lot of people are mentioning watching meter, but whether it be aiming or timing, I rather go with the feel.....I play with it off.
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
    That's awesome. I never had quite the "feel" to do it meter off! It definitely did have flaws, I've got a couple of clips of centering half-court and full-court heaves on current, but overall, it was a cool little system
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    mb625
    Like I said, for me, the focus on the meter was part of what made it feel more "real" to me than timing. I was watching the target (rim irl, meter here) rather than my shooter's hand/legs. Plus I really felt like aiming got to a muscle memory point for me, which was nice as well.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    I don't know for me when I shoot in real life I'm usually more focused on my form. If I'm having a bad shooting day I don't equate it to bad aiming I equate it to something being off with the way I'm shooting.
    And perhaps my issue with aiming is more down to the mechanics. Maybe I'm wrong but if I remember correctly aiming had nothing to do with where the rim is in relation to your player, it was more based on how quickly or slowly you shot and how off center the stick was when you pull it down, correct? If it's about aiming then shouldn't I be able to shut the meter off and be able to aim just by where the rim is located in relation to my player?
    I relate it to the NHL games. When you aim and shoot in NHL you are actually aiming in the direction of the net and then targeting where you want to shoot. It's intuitive and makes sense. With the 2k aiming it didn't feel intuitive it felt like a videogame mechanic. IMO timing at least makes sense because there is an ideal release point for almost every shot IRL.
    The 24th Letter
    They changed this.....multiple times
    That's why I preferred the original incarnations of shot aiming.
    Aiming wasn't the ONLY tool cheaters used, but the original concept made scripts really easy to make..
    Aiming definitely wasn't impossible to use competitively though:
    https://youtu.be/_zsVjvjn310
    Rob has even more examples. He stuck with the aiming longer than me. I wasn't a fan of the latest version.
    A lot of people are mentioning watching meter, but whether it be aiming or timing, I rather go with the feel.....I play with it off.
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

    My apologizes. How was it changed? I thought the concept was still relatively the same as far as having the stick being as close to center as possible when you pull down on the stick? I mentioned this a long time ago (but it's not the reason for why I didn't like aiming), but I broke my thumb on my right hand, so it was always difficult for me to push the RS directly south. I mainly hated it due its impact of the normal use of the RS when you turned aiming off.
    Like you, I rather go by feel or rhythm of the shot. I know I had shared this before, but I have a system that I've been using since NBA 2K5 where I categorizes the speed of the shot animations into 3 speeds. Nothing fancy...slow, average, quick. Basically when I practice shooting with the Pacers, I'm just learning the speeds of the shooting animation. It's still effective system for me overall, but I swear good/open shots don't go in at the same rate as bad/contested shots.
    scottyp180
    I don't know for me when I shoot in real life I'm usually more focused on my form. If I'm having a bad shooting day I don't equate it to bad aiming I equate it to something being off with the way I'm shooting.
    And perhaps my issue with aiming is more down to the mechanics. Maybe I'm wrong but if I remember correctly aiming had nothing to do with where the rim is in relation to your player, it was more based on how quickly or slowly you shot and how off center the stick was when you pull it down, correct? If it's about aiming then shouldn't I be able to shut the meter off and be able to aim just by where the rim is located in relation to my player?
    I relate it to the NHL games. When you aim and shoot in NHL you are actually aiming in the direction of the net and then targeting where you want to shoot. It's intuitive and makes sense. With the 2k aiming it didn't feel intuitive it felt like a videogame mechanic. IMO timing at least makes sense because there is an ideal release point for almost every shot IRL.
    No, that's exactly how I feel too. I'm focused on my form as well. But that's the exact flaw I felt with timing. When I'm focusing on my form, I'm thinking not about *when* I'm letting go of the ball, but *how* I'm releasing it. (AFTER the fact, for the peanut gallery that wants to be obtuse and trivial about it lolol.) Was I balanced? Did I have a decent follow through? Was my elbow straight, not splaying out to the side? We're my eyes focused on the rim? Never, "did I release the ball in the right ten millisecond time window."
    It may just be me, but I never really "thought basketball thoughts" (again, just a manner of speaking, lest I be questioned ) with timing. It wasn't perfect, but aiming felt a LOT closer to me.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    mb625
    No, that's exactly how I feel too. I'm focused on my form as well. But that's the exact flaw I felt with timing. When I'm focusing on my form, I'm thinking not about *when* I'm letting go of the ball, but *how* I'm releasing it. (AFTER the fact, for the peanut gallery that wants to be obtuse and trivial about it lolol.) Was I balanced? Did I have a decent follow through? Was my elbow straight, not splaying out to the side? We're my eyes focused on the rim? Never, "did I release the ball in the right ten millisecond time window."
    It may just be me, but I never really "thought basketball thoughts" (again, just a manner of speaking, lest I be questioned ) with timing. It wasn't perfect, but aiming felt a LOT closer to me.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    For the record...it should be option for those who wanted it. After watching some YouTube videos, it seems that Zen controllers got free marketing this year for whatever reason which is a shame.
    Personally, I just want my pre-NBA 2K21 RS control back. I do not like using the button.
    mb625
    No, that's exactly how I feel too. I'm focused on my form as well. But that's the exact flaw I felt with timing. When I'm focusing on my form, I'm thinking not about *when* I'm letting go of the ball, but *how* I'm releasing it. (AFTER the fact, for the peanut gallery that wants to be obtuse and trivial about it lolol.) Was I balanced? Did I have a decent follow through? Was my elbow straight, not splaying out to the side? We're my eyes focused on the rim? Never, "did I release the ball in the right ten millisecond time window."
    It may just be me, but I never really "thought basketball thoughts" (again, just a manner of speaking, lest I be questioned ) with timing. It wasn't perfect, but aiming felt a LOT closer to me.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    Interesting. I guess for me with regards to "timing" I'm more focused on learning each players jump shot. I have to know their form and how they shoot in order to be good with them. To me timing makes sense for experienced shooters that have their form dowm because they don't need to think about the various aspects of their jumpshot. That part is automatic to them.
    Like when I'm playing ball and I'm having a good shooting day it feels closer to shooting with timing. I'm not thinking about anything, I have my form down already, and it's mostly about the release. However, let's say it's been awhile since I've shot a ball and I go to shoot around and my shot is off, now shooting feels more similar to shooting with the aiming mechanic because I'm thinking more about each aspect of my shot (my foot placement, my hand placement, where I start my gather, where's my elbow pointing, am I balanced, etc). Hope that makes sense.
    I'm also not arguing that one mechanic (in terms of 2k) is necessarily better than the other or that one is the "right" way. I understand that people have their preferences and I am never going to argue against games have more options. I do find it interesting though how people translate both to real life shooting and how for some timing makes more sense and for others aiming does.
    jk31
    But didnt they change it so you always had to swipe left or right, depending on how fast you initially pulled the right stick down?
    All 30 members of our online league went back to shot timing. In somewhat competitive matches, you cannot keep up with someone who uses shot timing...

    For the ones who took time to learn how to use it, it was more of an advantage. You have two opportunities for a perfect release. Driving to the basket was also “easier” if you knew how to aim. I’m willing to bet anyone who has an understanding of aiming will go toe to toe with someone using shot timing.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Antonioshellz
    For the ones who took time to learn how to use it, it was more of an advantage. You have two opportunities for a perfect release. Driving to the basket was also “easier” if you knew how to aim. I’m willing to bet anyone who has an understanding of aiming will go toe to toe with someone using shot timing.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    When I was in a MyNBA briefly, the best team in the league was run by a user who used aiming. Dude dominated. I held my own more often than not too. The only mode I really played on the regular that was quantifiable was MyTeam Unlimited. Rattled off ten straight before I stopped playing 21. So, yeah... The idea that aiming wasn't competitive is way off base!
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Antonioshellz
    For the ones who took time to learn how to use it, it was more of an advantage. You have two opportunities for a perfect release. Driving to the basket was also “easier” if you knew how to aim. I’m willing to bet anyone who has an understanding of aiming will go toe to toe with someone using shot timing.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    i used shot aiming for the first of our two seasons with 2k21 (so from September to Februar).after switching back to Timing i increased my 3pt percentage from 30 % to 39 %. my career average in 18 seasons (spanning 10 Iterations of nba 2k from 2k11 to 2k21)is at 37 %. and literally no one who used aiming was able to Shoot above 33/34 %.
    jk31
    i used shot aiming for the first of our two seasons with 2k21 (so from September to Februar).after switching back to Timing i increased my 3pt percentage from 30 % to 39 %. my career average in 18 seasons (spanning 10 Iterations of nba 2k from 2k11 to 2k21)is at 37 %. and literally no one who used aiming was able to Shoot above 33/34 %.
    I'm assuming current gen? Because aiming on current was a trickier beast, especially after changes were made to combat zen use online (which also effected offline gameplay and MyLeagues). On next, I was pretty routinely at or above 50% from 3 on competitive online sliders (and would routinely outshoot my timing counterparts), above league average in the MyNBA I was in and the user I spoke about previously who won the league with it was tops in the league in 3 point shooting.
    Aiming was very different on next
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    mb625
    I'm assuming current gen? Because aiming on current was a trickier beast, especially after changes were made to combat zen use online (which also effected offline gameplay and MyLeagues). On next, I was pretty routinely at or above 50% from 3 on competitive online sliders (and would routinely outshoot my timing counterparts), above league average in the MyNBA I was in and the user I spoke about previously who won the league with it was tops in the league in 3 point shooting.
    Aiming was very different on next
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    Yeah. It definitely is. The shot meter is just bigger when compared to the current gen version. Truthfully, the shot meter on the current gen is horrible even if there was no shot aiming.
    Antonioshellz
    For the ones who took time to learn how to use it, it was more of an advantage. You have two opportunities for a perfect release. Driving to the basket was also “easier” if you knew how to aim. I’m willing to bet anyone who has an understanding of aiming will go toe to toe with someone using shot timing.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    I may not be the best 2k player. But I can guarentee you, if I was in a 30 man league with 29 guys using timing. I would be top 5 in shooting with the shot aim feature on next gen.
    Once I got the hang of it, I was money 75 percent of the games I play.
    The "Boomer" ChaseB said shot aiming was cheating. Way more accurate then timing on next gen. Imo
    alabamarob
    I may not be the best 2k player. But I can guarentee you, if I was in a 30 man league with 29 guys using timing. I would be top 5 in shooting with the shot aim feature on next gen.
    Once I got the hang of it, I was money 75 percent of the games I play.
    The "Boomer" ChaseB said shot aiming was cheating. Way more accurate then timing on next gen. Imo
    I gotta say I feel VERY similarly. It was almost a bit overpowered in a way, but some fine tuning could have helped that
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    alabamarob
    I may not be the best 2k player. But I can guarentee you, if I was in a 30 man league with 29 guys using timing. I would be top 5 in shooting with the shot aim feature on next gen.
    Once I got the hang of it, I was money 75 percent of the games I play.
    The "Boomer" ChaseB said shot aiming was cheating. Way more accurate then timing on next gen. Imo

    Yeah Rob, I was a GS user in one of your leagues. I actually hit a buzzer beating game winner using the aim mechanic. It sucks that the option is no longer there for people like myself who enjoyed using it.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Shot aiming was broken on ps4 on hook shots.
    It could trigger both consistent finisher and pro touch at the same time.
    Consistent would take care of the release while pro touch takes care of aiming.
    Couples with hotzone hunter and deep hooks, you needed to get blocked in order to miss.
    Same on standing lay ups.
    For a big its pretty much a must to use it.
    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Operation Sports
    mb625
    I'm assuming current gen? Because aiming on current was a trickier beast, especially after changes were made to combat zen use online (which also effected offline gameplay and MyLeagues). On next, I was pretty routinely at or above 50% from 3 on competitive online sliders (and would routinely outshoot my timing counterparts), above league average in the MyNBA I was in and the user I spoke about previously who won the league with it was tops in the league in 3 point shooting.
    Aiming was very different on next
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    Didnt know that. Yes on old gen. I am on PC so sadly 2k gives us old versions again....
    Antonioshellz
    Yeah Rob, I was a GS user in one of your leagues. I actually hit a buzzer beating game winner using the aim mechanic. It sucks that the option is no longer there for people like myself who enjoyed using it.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    Come on Shellz. You know I remember you and knew who you were. That is why I commented. You were the best shot aimer of all of us. You brought the splash brothers into real life. It is a shame that they got rid of aiming. I don’t know how we are supposed to make semi-contested, and off the dribble move threes anymore. Hopefully, weak shot contest aren’t overpowered like the old days.
    I liked the ability to just raise up and shoot over a smaller/weaker defender. You balling in 2k22. You and I need to find a league to take us in. Ha. That buzzer beater you hit is on my top 2k moments of all time.
    alabamarob
    Come on Shellz. You know I remember you and knew who you were. That is why I commented. You were the best shot aimer of all of us. You brought the splash brothers into real life. It is a shame that they got rid of aiming. I don’t know how we are supposed to make semi-contested, and off the dribble move threes anymore. Hopefully, weak shot contest aren’t overpowered like the old days.
    I liked the ability to just raise up and shoot over a smaller/weaker defender. You balling in 2k22. You and I need to find a league to take us in. Ha. That buzzer beater you hit is on my top 2k moments of all time.

    Exactly. Shot aiming really opened up shot creativity. You could really duplicate guys who make their living scoring off the bounce. It's something we had been asking for, for a long time.
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
    alabamarob
    I may not be the best 2k player. But I can guarentee you, if I was in a 30 man league with 29 guys using timing. I would be top 5 in shooting with the shot aim feature on next gen.
    Once I got the hang of it, I was money 75 percent of the games I play.
    The "Boomer" ChaseB said shot aiming was cheating. Way more accurate then timing on next gen. Imo

    This guy and the fake humble act lmaoo.
    I know that aiming ins't coming back. But is shot arc coming back? Where the arc on your jumper is determined by the speed you move the stick down on your shot.
    Happy as hell, here. For now, at least.
    Absolutely loved the way the game played over the years prior to 2k21 - hold the stick any direction = jump shot, runners, floaters, shots off the dribble. My muscle memory has been tuned to this for years.
    RP% on and learn the players releases and spots on the floor instead of relying on mini game meters.
    Best news I've heard in a while, personally.
    daveberg
    Happy as hell, here. For now, at least.
    Absolutely loved the way the game played over the years prior to 2k21 - hold the stick any direction = jump shot, runners, floaters, shots off the dribble. My muscle memory has been tuned to this for years.
    RP% on and learn the players releases and spots on the floor instead of relying on mini game meters.
    Best news I've heard in a while, personally.

    Releases don't matter with RP%
    The input for runners and floaters remained the same, lol
    Sounds like the actual effect of aiming was on the minimal side for your particular playstyle
    Either way, it's gone now
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
    The 24th Letter
    Releases don't matter with RP%
    The input for runners and floaters remained the same, lol
    Sounds like the actual effect of aiming was on the minimal side for your particular playstyle
    Either way, it's gone now
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

    The aiming system nerfed the overall use of the stick for those of us who chose to not have it switched on. You only had the option of holding down on the stick, as opposed to having all directions being used as previous entries - that's my point. I wanted to be able to hold the stick in any direction to instigate a shot, instead of being forced into using just the down direction. It hindered things for me. Didn't feel organic, despite trying to get on board with it.
    As I said, I'm glad 2K ditched 2k21's shooting mechanics this year. Best thing I've heard, in regards to gameplay for the last couple of years, personally. That particular innovation was a bust in my eyes.
    As you said - it's gone now.
    daveberg
    The aiming system nerfed the overall use of the stick for those of us who chose to not have it switched on. You only had the option of holding down on the stick, as opposed to having all directions being used as previous entries - that's my point. I wanted to be able to hold the stick in any direction to instigate a shot, instead of being forced into using just the down direction. It hindered things for me. Didn't feel organic, despite trying to get on board with it.
    As I said, I'm glad 2K ditched 2k21's shooting mechanics this year. Best thing I've heard, in regards to gameplay for the last couple of years, personally. That particular innovation was a bust in my eyes.
    As you said - it's gone now.

    I just don't get why any of this necessitates its removal entirely. Further, and I'll say it again, there was a huuuge majority who wanted its removal who wouldn't have even known about these issues you were having. Why not give them the chance to accommodate a reversion to older controls while leaving the mechanic (which was by no means a bust and worked fantastically for those who used it consistently, particularly on Next Gen) rather than hoping and praying it's gone so we can dance on its grave?
    mb625
    I just don't get why any of this necessitates its removal entirely. Further, and I'll say it again, there was a huuuge majority who wanted its removal who wouldn't have even known about these issues you were having. Why not give them the chance to accommodate a reversion to older controls while leaving the mechanic (which was by no means a bust and worked fantastically for those who used it consistently, particularly on Next Gen) rather than hoping and praying it's gone so we can dance on its grave?

    Was with you when you mentioned this before. I'm cool with them keeping it as an option, just as they should've kept in the option for us in 2K21 to play with the reverted scheme from the last several years in the series.
    More options for people, the better. Just as I think it was a bust, there's plenty of you who loved it - with more on the table, we'd all have a chance of getting what we wanted.
    EarvGotti
    It's absolutely dreadful that shot aiming has been removed.
    Let me show you guys what we lost with shot aim being taken out.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRMQ_HgiPyU
    Yeah, you won't be able to do ANY of those moves anymore. All that offensive creativity is now lost because people don't wanna give up shooting with the button...

    Dude, I can do 95% of those things on the sticks in 2k20 without shot aiming. Not that I'd be dribbling like that using MJ, mind you. Guy could kill you off one bounce and a pull up, but I digress.
    2K most likely makes these decisions to remove aiming feature based off surveys of users using the feature. Shot aiming on next gen was really nice once you took time to learn how to use it. It felt better shooting with aiming to me even with the extra trigger tap. Once you learned aiming to me you had an advantage over a non-aiming player. Taking out aiming allows them to not have an additional control method to test/model/program etc. which is cost to their eyes.
    daveberg
    Was with you when you mentioned this before. I'm cool with them keeping it as an option, just as they should've kept in the option for us in 2K21 to play with the reverted scheme from the last several years in the series.
    More options for people, the better. Just as I think it was a bust, there's plenty of you who loved it - with more on the table, we'd all have a chance of getting what we wanted.
    .

    Ope. I forgot that was you. My bad. Carry on
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    daveberg

    Dude, I can do 95% of those things on the sticks in 2k20 without shot aiming. Not that I'd be dribbling like that using MJ, mind you. Guy could kill you off one bounce and a pull up, but I digress.

    Nahh fam. The half spin/fake spin shot hasn't been in the game for YEARS now until 2K21. Trust me, it was one of my favorite moves to use back in 2K13/2K14 days and they took it out. I've been trying to replicate it for years.
    They finally added it back integrated with the shot stick along with other unique spin jumpers. Shot aim also opened up the pull-up game even more. Instead of worrying about different release timing whenever you took a pull-up jumper, all you had to do was focus on your aim. You had more control over each shot you took.
    I understand that people using zens are a big part of the reason why 2K decided to remove shot aim, but you don't scrap a revolutionary idea just because a few idiots decided to act in bad faith. You find a way to police that. Imagine if Amazon scrapped door-to-door delivery just because a few of their drivers were stealing items? 2K threw the baby out with the bathwater and it's absolutely terrible that they made this decision based on some stupid Twitter poll.
    Oh man, That's one of the things I'll miss most about it. Not having to rely on timing for the pull up game...
    Shot stick gave guys like Rip, Lou Will, The Microwave etc. a new lease on life after being historically hard to replicate.
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
    EarvGotti
    Nahh fam. The half spin/fake spin shot hasn't been in the game for YEARS now until 2K21. Trust me, it was one of my favorite moves to use back in 2K13/2K14 days and they took it out. I've been trying to replicate it for years.
    They finally added it back integrated with the shot stick along with other unique spin jumpers. Shot aim also opened up the pull-up game even more. Instead of worrying about different release timing whenever you took a pull-up jumper, all you had to do was focus on your aim. You had more control over each shot you took.
    I understand that people using zens are a big part of the reason why 2K decided to remove shot aim, but you don't scrap a revolutionary idea just because a few idiots decided to act in bad faith. You find a way to police that. Imagine if Amazon scrapped door-to-door delivery just because a few of their drivers were stealing items? 2K threw the baby out with the bathwater and it's absolutely terrible that they made this decision based on some stupid Twitter poll.
    The worst part of all of this is that the community just flat out didn't know how it worked. On Current Gen I can understand that because it really wasn't as functional as on next and it was very clearly used for cheating on there. On next though... Oh my... The number of times I got messages blaming losses on me "using a zen" for them to only find out that it was all me was astounding... And I didn't even use the stick half as well as you showed in that video!
    When they made the poll, it was clear it was a bunch of people who had no clue what they were talking about that were voting. The ones who did were usually making a great case for the stick. I think that's my biggest frustration here. They listened to people that had no idea how to actually use it, when the devs and such had that background knowledge and should have been able to see through that to its legitimate uses.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    mb625
    The worst part of all of this is that the community just flat out didn't know how it worked. On Current Gen I can understand that because it really wasn't as functional as on next and it was very clearly used for cheating on there. On next though... Oh my... The number of times I got messages blaming losses on me "using a zen" for them to only find out that it was all me was astounding... And I didn't even use the stick half as well as you showed in that video!
    When they made the poll, it was clear it was a bunch of people who had no clue what they were talking about that were voting. The ones who did were usually making a great case for the stick. I think that's my biggest frustration here. They listened to people that had no idea how to actually use it, when the devs and such had that background knowledge and should have been able to see through that to its legitimate uses.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    Exactly man. It's sooooo frustrating because this dev team is really talented and to see them run away from their good ideas because of the wider community that doesn't understand how to use them is very sad.
    They also have to take more responsibility in TEACHING the community how to use the newer mechanics. If people understood the shot aiming better, im sure they wouldn't hate it as much as they do now. IMO it was the most groundbreaking feature in a basketball game since 2K11. If you missed a shot, you knew exactly why and how.
    I may be in a minority, but as mentioned - some of us don't play online and simply didn't like the new mechanics. Has nothing to do with the Zen stuff, I just felt the aim mini game was clunky and distracting, nothing to do with ease of use. I always preferred having complete control over the stick in terms of having every direction on it available for shooting, instead of everything being mapped to one slot - down on the stick.
    I'm all for new things, so long as there's still an option to revert to tried and tested methods of play.
    Also, that half spin jumper is literally one of the few moves you can't do in 2k20. I could peel off a highlight reel doing most of the things that were shown in the video above. No aim needed.
    Not getting at your skills - you're sweet on the sticks, just saying 2k20 controls had very little wrong with them, so i never understood the change.
    The actual NBA season is back to back in a way so not surprised 2k will be nothing more than the roster update with accurate schedule. Now maybe they will have Start today feature back and the play in stuff I guess. Other than that they won't be addressing major things.
    VictorMG
    They're the largest portion of the fanbase by far. You might not like it, but it's at least understandable.

    Not sure if they are the largest part but they are the part that know how to market themselves. Most of those youtube people and stuff don't seem to care. I don't watch ELeague I would think they should care about how bball is played but not sure they do.
    I'm all for simplifying and relying more on actual stat values, so seeing shot aiming go is great. It never made sense in a simulation bb game, and probably was very difficult to balance for.
    Now here's hoping they take out guaranteed greens altogether.
    trandoanhung1991
    I'm all for simplifying and relying more on actual stat values, so seeing shot aiming go is great. It never made sense in a simulation bb game, and probably was very difficult to balance for.
    Now here's hoping they take out guaranteed greens altogether.

    Shot aiming leaving doesn't get us any closer to relying on real stat values and the community at large isn't going for that.
    I know I keep saying it, but in terms of realism, short of a removal of guaranteed greens (which I'd agree is the goal, but it's not going to be a reality any time soon), aiming was the best thing 2k has done in a long time to me. I had control over everything, great shooters felt like great shooters, even if they didn't hit green, it was pretty great for those who used it faithfully.
    It didn't seem like it'd take too much from a balance perspective either. Maybe a bit of a reduction on the slightly releases and we'd be seeing very realistic percentages. As it stood, percentages with the stick were pretty well where they needed to be in comparison to button shooting, though maybe just a tad high.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    The best part about shot aiming is that it took away the shot release preference. Some guys have smaller release windows, even though they have higher ratings. So the aiming put everyone on a equal playing field in that respect.
    Mike should've kept it an option instead of listening to a poll on Twitter. I was bad at the shot aiming but it was fun and challenging for me. I really hate how online dictates offline gaming as well now. This timeline sucks.
    mb625
    It didn't seem like it'd take too much from a balance perspective either. Maybe a bit of a reduction on the slightly releases and we'd be seeing very realistic percentages. As it stood, percentages with the stick were pretty well where they needed to be in comparison to button shooting, though maybe just a tad high.

    But that's just a result of the boost given to the user for shot aiming, isn't it? Great shooters can still feel like great shooters without aiming.
    Goffs
    Mike should've kept it an option instead of listening to a poll on Twitter. I was bad at the shot aiming but it was fun and challenging for me. I really hate how online dictates offline gaming as well now. This timeline sucks.

    Twitter is the most front facing metric that they use to "influence" changes they make, so of course it gets the lion's share of the blame and anger in terms of design decisions changes that are made, but IMO if people remove their personal wishes from their evaluation, does anyone honestly think that every metric they have didn't show that aiming was use by a small percentage of people even offline.
    A removal after one year, speaks volumes, IMO.
    VictorMG
    But that's just a result of the boost given to the user for shot aiming, isn't it? Great shooters can still feel like great shooters without aiming.
    I frankly didn't feel that way on Next. If users didn't have their timing down pat, percentages were pretty consistently on the low side. Current was a different story, but Next was very reliant on the green release, and since outside of this forum, there is a strong inclination to want to make greens the ONLY shots that fall I felt like it was worth mentioning
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    jfsolo
    Twitter is the most front facing metric that they use to "influence" changes they make, so of course it gets the lion's share of the blame and anger in terms of design decisions changes that are made, but IMO if people remove their personal wishes from their evaluation, does anyone honestly think that every metric they have didn't show that aiming was use by a small percentage of people even offline.
    A removal after one year, speaks volumes, IMO.

    Surely they have metrics that show that the majority of users don't use things like Real Player Percentage (which was actually used as a free throw exploit on Next Gen. Actual cheating as opposed to the perceived cheating of using the stick on next, when no scripts existed), Total Receiver Control with the B button, skip passing, etc, and yet they don't remove any of those things. It's not JUST that a minority used the mechanic. There are many mechanics used by a minority of players that stay. It's that the loud majority didn't understand the system and complained about their misunderstanding loud enough for 2k to listen.
    It doesn't tell us anything other than that the community thinks timing up a jumper is the holy grail of video game "skill."
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    jfsolo
    Twitter is the most front facing metric that they use to "influence" changes they make, so of course it gets the lion's share of the blame and anger in terms of design decisions changes that are made, but IMO if people remove their personal wishes from their evaluation, does anyone honestly think that every metric they have didn't show that aiming was use by a small percentage of people even offline.
    A removal after one year, speaks volumes, IMO.

    From what I saw on Reddit/Twitter where the user base is younger lol more people than you’d think gave aiming a chance.
    VictorMG
    But that's just a result of the boost given to the user for shot aiming, isn't it? Great shooters can still feel like great shooters without aiming.

    There’s been no separation between great to average shooters the past few 2k’s. That’s why the community kept asking for a skills gap yet weren’t so receptive when they got it.
    loso_34
    From what I saw on Reddit/Twitter where the user base is younger lol more people than you’d think gave aiming a chance.
    That's the other factor. A lot of the people voting in that poll weren't "old heads" or veteran 2k players who generally knew a lot about the game or spent time in the practice gym learning the nuances of the stick... They were 16 year olds who saw their favorite YouTuber complain because they got hit with a zen on current and automatically associated aiming with cheating. That much was evident from the multiple messages I received on Next Gen thinking I was cheating using aiming, when the scripts didn't even exist.
    (Further evidence was the fact that the people who said they'd practiced it and enjoyed it were roundly accused of just wanting to use a zen. We can't possibly pretend that this was an informed voter base...)
    mb625
    That's the other factor. A lot of the people voting in that poll weren't "old heads" or veteran 2k players who generally knew a lot about the game or spent time in the practice gym learning the nuances of the stick... They were 16 year olds who saw their favorite YouTuber complain because they got hit with a zen on current and automatically associated aiming with cheating. That much was evident from the multiple messages I received on Next Gen thinking I was cheating using aiming, when the scripts didn't even exist.
    (Further evidence was the fact that the people who said they'd practiced it and enjoyed it were roundly accused of just wanting to use a zen. We can't possibly pretend that this was an informed voter base...)
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Honestly, that kinda implies that it was OP, but the greater community didn't catch on.
    ksuttonjr76
    Honestly, that kinda implies that it was OP, but the greater community didn't catch on.
    Maybe a hair. I was usually just a hair better in shooting than my timing counterparts, but that could be adjusted easily. (Looking back at Earv's video, non-greens would fall at a bit of a higher rate with aiming than timing.) I wish I had some screenshots so that way I could tabulate some kind of idea of about how well I shot vs my opponents. Mostly though, they saw me green a few, miss a few, but assumed it was cheating simply because I had greened with the stick a few times.
    If you hadn't noticed... logic wasn't exactly the order of the day when it came to vilifying the stick lol
    Goffs
    I'm glad that they are keeping the gameplay the same and not pull an EA. There are still people out there that don't have NEXT GEN systems. So why leave them out with the experience?
    Besides what can 2k do to make the gameplay more next gen? Actual physics? I don't think they are willing to start over....

    That just seems like a cop-out, and comes off as lazy
    I didn't buy 2k on PS5 to play the PS4 version of the game
    The 24th Letter
    Oh man, That's one of the things I'll miss most about it. Not having to rely on timing for the pull up game...
    Shot stick gave guys like Rip, Lou Will, The Microwave etc. a new lease on life after being historically hard to replicate.
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

    Aiming was legit the only way I could hit any stepback or moving threes with guys like Clarkson, Mitchell, and Conley. I'd use timing for everything else, but moving threes got ruined by the Park boys again so they killed them, making aiming the only viable option.
    Pretty frustrating. First time in over 10 years I'm not getting 2k at launch
    Can someone tell me what a zen is? I don't play online or really follow online stuff at all so I'm OOTL.
    With regards to aiming, I actually use it with RP%, and I'm not really an oldhead when it comes to 2k. I've played 2k11, 16, and 21, all very casually. I love basketball but I'm honestly just bad at 2k lmao, but I liked aiming with the stick. It's tough to get a hang of, but for some reason I just like it. It feels better to miss with aiming + RP% than it does just hitting square with RP%, and I'm really not sure why. I practice a lot and still suck but at least I'm having fun.
    They really should've kept it an option instead of getting rid of it.
    Buffalo Bills, Toronto Blue Jays, Ottawa Senators, Milwaukee Bucks
    Currently listening to: Veil of Maya
    I find it funny zen is a new thing for some people when cronusmax has always been in nba 2k since the early days of ps4.
    The most overpowered cronusmax script was the vibration script. It's almost a guaranteed shot for a pro scripter.
    But even with vibration removed, scripters can still dictate how many milliseconds they want to put into their jumpshot. Latency is not even a problem because there are +/- parameters they can adjust while ingame.
    Let's say Durant's green shot is 650 milliseconds, what scripters do is when they press UP button it will increase that 650 milliseconds to 750 milliseconds until they finally get the right parameters that sync with the opponent's latency(play now online p2p) or server's latency (other online modes).
    BarfytheOwl
    Can someone tell me what a zen is? I don't play online or really follow online stuff at all so I'm OOTL.

    I think they’re special controllers / tools for cheating (i.e., guaranteed perfect aiming). As the post above mine says though, these things have always been around regardless of what shooting mechanics 2k implements.
    loso_34
    Yea some kid got his hands on the game. Reading it’s been removed from the old gen game but still on next gen.
    Whaaaaat?
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    The 24th Letter
    Interesting, I wonder if it's just left over text they need to patch out.
    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

    Maybe a last-minute change to include it? I think I remember Mike saying it was gone, but I don't know if they could possibly change their minds and keep it in.
    Some things are not actually gone, but just hidden for the normal crowds, and maybe these type of tools let them see them and edit ... who knows ...
    ffaacc03
    Some things are not actually gone, but just hidden for the normal crowds, and maybe these type of tools let them see them and edit ... who knows ...
    This is a retail copy of the game though.
    Hmmm....there are some leaked gameplay footage on YouTube. At the moment, shot aiming is definitely in the settings. There might be a day one patch to remove it though.
    Damn. Now, I'm debating whether or not to cancel my pre-order. Even though shot aiming is not available (according to Mike Wang), this just showed me that the program of aiming is still in the software.
    If we still have NBA 2K21 right stick control and responsiveness, then that's a deal breaker for me.
    ksuttonjr76
    Hmmm....there are some leaked gameplay footage on YouTube. At the moment, shot aiming is definitely in the settings. There might be a day one patch to remove it though.
    Damn. Now, I'm debating whether or not to cancel my pre-order. Even though shot aiming is not available (according to Mike Wang), this just showed me that the program of aiming is still in the software.
    If we still have NBA 2K21 right stick control and responsiveness, then that's a deal breaker for me.

    Link to footage??
    taildog
    Hopefully there’s a patch to give us the option to turn off takeover icons like 2k19
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    This! Along with the “cold” indicator, gatorade cup symbol and injured symbol.
    This ish reminds of Watch The Throne album release. We were so used to album leaks in 2011. It was crazy that album didn’t leak before release. 2k22 is the sports game equivalent lol
    mb625
    Dang... I was so hoping it would have stayed in the next gen version of the game
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    That’s unfortunate. Not feeling dribbling from these leaks it has the game looking like 2k20 v2.
    I gotta say I am liking the new way dribbling looks... Makes people have to be much more mindful about when and how they isolate. But maybe that's just me coming from a place where I really don't like dribbling all that much.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    mb625
    I gotta say I am liking the new way dribbling looks... Makes people have to be much more mindful about when and how they isolate. But maybe that's just me coming from a place where I really don't like dribbling all that much.
    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    What’s new about it ? It looks just like 2k2o I can already see how a guy like steezo will be dribbling backwards again.

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