NBA 2K23 Trailer Revealed - Gameplay Details Arrive Next Week

I was just posting this lol.. But only thing i liked was updated basket sanchions and crowd cerlebration at end.. pretty underwhelmingto say the least.

It looks slower and smoother

Trailers don't do much for me anymore. I just have to play the game.

Trailers don’t really do much for me any more
BUT
Those facial expressions and animation blendings really stuck out to me….looks sick
Crowd looks a lot more detailed too

oh WELP...*IF* that's an official 2k trailer...they should've deleted that first drive by Lavine...cause it showed NO IMPROVMENT with help D. JV setting picks for the offence...smh

Only thing that caught my eye is the flashes from the cameras changing the lighting on the players models when dunking etc which gives a much more realistic look.
Disappointing to see Lebron with the same outdated, cartoon looking face scan

They had to include highlights for a mode nobody asked for or plays. I remember that vocal minority on here when the wnba was added..it added translate to anything you guys were all talk.

A very good catch.
That's awfully worrying to see, yea it's a trailer and all, some would always say that 'don't know the difficulty yet etc.' difficulties don't really matter anymore, so no guys it's here and it's what it is and it looks bad and will from that look.
3 guys on defense holding onto each other and letting Lavine do his thing, funny help d.

Yep, looks like 2K.

Literally no reason to try and analyze rotations in a trailer….Lavines dunk tells us no more than all the weak side blocks that were in last years trailer.

Coaches in team attire and looks like they added the jabbawockeez for halftime lol

Be legendary on Devin Booker's Kobe 4s and Nike Air on the Jordan 3s seems like there maybe an overhaul on the dated shoes in the game. That along with the Jordan challenge will make this my first day 1 purchase since the release of the next gen consoles.

Ja dancing at half court….I wonder if they brought back the 2K16 signature timeout celebrations
I used to love those, One of my first video edits was a compilation of all of them, lol

I dont want to over analyse the leaked trailer, but a sore spot for me that has plagued 2k games for years is still very prevalent, body models. Why is it so hard for 2k to get players body models and proportions right. They literally scan the players and still just focus on face. SMH!

My reaction as well lol

I'm surprised that they haven't made it one of the priorities for the art team. It's been a common complaint for awhile now. They've made improvements since the 2k16, 2k17 days when we had those super skinny models (2k16) along with the body builder shoulders (2k17) but it should have been an area of focus for next-gen.

Body models are so bad, it makes me not want to play the game tbh. They basically just mocapped with guys who were 5’11 and tried to increase all their proportions. Basketball players are very long. Long legs, long arms, short torsos. The body models are just so off. And they have no butts, so certain animations make them look like they’re wearing kilts.
The pc modding community has shown that it’s very possible for 2k to improve their models, but they refuse. SMH.
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Lol, that Lavine dunk also is 2 separate games. The compression shorts are different colors from the drive to the dunk.

Body models make no sense to me because just giving us the ability to edit would solve the problem altogether. 2K removing that feature never made sense, kinda like headbands, and last years game not being able to edit coaches anymore. I don't get why they take things out like that.
For whatever reason signature shots and stuff have just looked jerky for the past few years now.
Overall looks like 2K and I'm sure there will be lots of improvements, but still waiting to be blown away by "next gen" sports gaming as the entire jump was super underwhelming compared to the jump for the last "next gen"..

What’s up Will. Long time no see.
Same with the Luka step back…Saw a comment saying step backs are definitely OP now :lol:

Forgot OS existed for quite a few years. May be on here and there, saw the trailer on Twitter, figured I'd come see what the sentiment was over on this end of the world.
Played maybe 3 hours total of NBA 2k22. Just not for me. I won't go into it, I've done it too many times throughout the years, haha. Just accepted it and moved on with life.

Arena lighting and player skin textures looking damn good.
Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

*yawn*. Another trailer and nothing truly amazing about it. I will reserve judgement till more information comes out but so far, nothing impressive

Holy **** this looks incredible. I forget about all the Debbie downers around these parts this time of year lol. Pre-ordered and can’t wait for it to drop!
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Alright now show us those MJ challenges
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Long gone are the days where you could easily see the graphical changes each year.

Lighting looks better overall to me, glad to see Marcus Smart got an update to his hair with the green fro, hopefully he has a braid option too. All in all not the best 2k trailer but also not the worst, still excited to get the game though.

Love the Jabbawockeez.
Ik it’s a trailer, until other gameplay comes though I’m Judging.
The Half-Spin jumper Jimmy did will be a smothered.
The step back Luka did will be a smothered.
That’s why they had his man 6 feet away from him.
They’re not fluid enough they weren’t MoCapped in a game situation there’s no urgency
JV Ingram and Zion all damn near back straight, in physical contact with eachother, Tabata side shuffling, while Zach Lavine destroys the rim.
Love the Ja Griddy.

Maybe one of the first times I lost excitement instead of gaining some or being neutral.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The yellows don't look washed to my bad eyes...which is a good thing. I also see the "Chasing History in the background. i wonder if that's tied into Lebron possibly breaking the NBA scoring record this coming season? Will the commentators speak on that during Franchise?

Another year, another trailer that tells us nothing worthwhile. So they got a dance and a sleep animation in, big whoop. At this point, it has to be disinterest or arrogance not to switch it up.
Imagine a trailer with a voice over from Booker or someone else, showing off parts of other modes on the jumbotron - POV or overhead - as you walk or see Booker walking to the court and then get a mix of real life footage of Booker, some other stars, classic teams, MJ with hype music like a play-off video.

Visual Concept is no longer visual
3rd game on next Gen and the Graphics already Maxed out

Thank goodness! I was so sick of those damn kids doing the same stupid dance every halftime show. The messed up part is that that was the only thing that got me "perked" about the game. Like everyone else..."Yep. That's NBA 2K game.".

I honestly don't know how much better it can get outside of lighting? Maybe it can...I don't know. Like what else could they do to make the player models look better in comparison to what other gaming companies do? Are their better textures that VC can use? I'm not that tech savvy so I wouldn't know. The best looking game I've seen during this current gen is Forza Horizon 5 and to me the lighting is one of the main reasons why

KSutton don’t love the kids?
:lol:

Lol...don't make me drop the MJ comment about them kids.

You'd think they could make the crowd and hand on ball look more realistic, body physics and proportions I've given up on.

They should add Red Panda lol she's a halftime legend... I usually skip like most people but it'd be cool to see more variety for half time besides the kids and the trampoline dunk dudes
Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk

I agree that there is nothing too exciting here, but I'm not sure what a sports game can do in a trailer like this that would blow people away, outside of graphics taking a leap into photo realism. It's not just a 2K "problem," it's all sports games. Hard for a highlight reel trailer to show off anything of significance without them actually breaking down what's new.
I think the last time I was blown away by a trailer for a sports game was 2k14, but it's not like the games have been bad since then. 2k16 was arguably the best 2k ever but trailers for that are still going to look like just another 2k game.

Bro I want improved help defense too, but it's a hype sizzle trailer imo. They're not gonna show someone getting locked down or defensive rotations in a hype trailer lol. Let's wait for the blogs to see what improvements were made.

damn good eye!!!:smile:

I didn't even pick up on that, but I noticed he started dunking it with his left hand and then when it cut he was dunking with his right. :lol:

The very first highlight shows Lavine walking around 3 defenders (with the hedge defender just standing flat footed facing away from the basket as Lavine dunks behind him…).
Oh noooooo

Y'all are crazy if you think this game doesn't look good

This is not good because untill now they havent fix this players body proportion and Davies under shirt is not that long. yes im very nit picking as i only play the NBA mode of this game. and for a player that has been the cover athlete how the hell they miss that undershirt part..
P.S why they always put special shoes to star players instead of placing random shoes to all NBA players with random colorways. so i dont have to chnage each player shoes colorways.
The only thing i notice new here is the coaching staff not wearing suits. i hope players walking in the hallways is not wearing this suits again. and injured players in the sideline should be in casual clothes aswell

Very subtle, but the lighting and shading does look better. Also digging Steph’s new post-release animation.
However I’m really bummed over the lack of new scans/hairstyles for Ja Morant, Klay, Tatum, Jimmy Butler, KAT, AD (etc). This is VERY disappointing. I can understand not updating certain role players. But these are some of the biggest names in the game. They should be updated each and every year. If not full on face scans, at least hairstyles.

I wouldn't worry about likenesses too much. 2k usually updates faces closer to release, if not in the day 1 patch. There have been times when we have seen players updated from the time between a video or screenshot in August to the launch in September.

Really hoping this is the case 🙏

Tired of having the create players in order to make them look semi accurate to their current likenesses

Lighting looks better. Can’t gather much more than that from the trailer.

Graphics look nice but there are some things still present that need to changed:
1. sure we can say its just a trailer and you shouldnt judge help defense displayed in it, but if the help defense has been bad since the jump to nextgen and the first clip showcase the same brain dead off-ball AI behavior allowing a free run to the rim then i think its safe to be skeptical of any improvements
2. I hope that Giannis push off on PJ Tucker isnt a frequent occurence
3. The Draymond block on Ja is one of the canned block animations that i disliked in 2k22. The defenders cover too much ground in the air. Would be different if that animations was locked behind a block rating tier but pretty much any and everybody was flying in to block shots like that in 2k22
4. If you played post defense like JTA does on Booker you'd get scored on pretty much every time. Post defense needs to be more physical. The defender should have forearm in the offensive players back or either absorbing contact with his chest. As is, guys just stand there with their hands straight up like workout dummies.
5. Wish 2K would bring in some guys that are at least 6'10 to properly mocap on ball defensive stances for people that height. AD just looks uncomfortable.
6. Booker makes a great cross over move on AD (who actually flips his hips to stay in front of the intial move!) but then AD is able to magically plant and pivot in one motion to get back into the play..would be fine if it was Davion Mitchell or someone like that but a 7-footer being able to do is why its so hard to take advantage of mismatches on the perimeter. There is no such thing as shifting your defender to create space for a shot because the AI is able to mirror your movements.
You can say im looking too much into things and hyperanalyzing and i would probably agree. But this game has been stagnant since the jump to next-gen in my opinion specifically when it comes to playing against the AI so I am on the on the lookout for things that appear to be unchanged because at the end of the day its still a 2k game and therefore it is reasonable to expect to a large amount of carryover in animations and overall feel.
Im a 2k fanboy at heart and I am looking forward to release as I am every year but again the jump to next gen changed something about this game to the point where i usually stop playing after a couple of months.

Trailer does seem like 2k22.5 …
Lol I really want to buy this game. I want to preorder and such…just give me fouls and smart AI defensive rotations and I’ll buy 5 copies on release date. Lol.. but seriously.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for those of you who liked this trailer, thats good for you guys
and for those of you who didnt then i kinda feeel you on that as well
as far as trailer goes i mean its 2k, not much else i could add to the discussion
i just hope the marketing dont oversell features and imrovements with all the 'FROM THE GROUND UP' overhyping PR talk...that's what erks me the most!!
Am still jaded about PC being last gen so most of these trailers am guessing isnt applicable to where i am gonna play if am gonna play.

Since I'm mainly buying the game for the "discounted NBALP, but getting NBA 2K23 for free", I have a totally different mindset about the marketing at the moment.

Meh
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Fair enough Bro....

Agreed 100%! I’ve historically been a console 2k gamer. After seeking what the pc modding community can do to just about make everything in the game look better, I’m considering investing in a gaming computer just to play the game on pc. The modding community is putting the NBA 2k visuals to shame right now. I struggle to play the game on console anymore and I have a ps5.
The game is not “next gen” visually on consoles.
2k needs to step up.

Things I noticed from from the trailer:
Body type/ body proportions are just wrong (again), which means another year with players like “skinny Shaq” and “skinny Perk”.
Pull ups are Looking bad, stiff and flat (again!).
Graphics and lightning looking great though.
That’s it!

They know damn well Steph’s hair isn't that damn brown. Didn't bother me last year, but these little inaccuracies are annoying to look at after a while
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

So y’all not coppin’ huh?

Dudes are looking to cop the 2K23 Bob Ross Happy Little Trees Edition, where evertything is perfect, no mistakes.:lol:

Law of diminishing returns, I’m afraid. Until we get graphics literally indistinguishable from real life, which is probably gonna be never, improvements can only be felt. It won’t come visually.

Crowd looks good
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Personal gripe of mine is it’s pretty clear 2k have their favourite players that they make sure get updated. For example any player from the warriors and in particular Steph. They have updated Stephs hair from 2cm long to 2.5cm long but players like Lebron, AD or extreme cases Robin Lopez go untouched for years.
Frustrating to say the least.
Its not even about players re sitting for new scans as the PC modding community have proved for years, players can be updated considerably without re sitting for a new scan.

Even if people eventually give in and buy it, it’s not like they have a lot of options if they want to play a basketball game… people buy whole consoles and only play about 2 games, and as a basketball fan if you stop updating rosters or eventually turn off online support so we can’t download anything, you’re actively whether directly or not discouraging me from keeping an old product. You got a customer cool but you’ve gained a reluctant customer.
That’s monopoly stuff, all the criticism and complaining is hoping somebody addresses something.

There’s no ‘reluctant’ column on the financial report though unfortunately
Tough. I get it. I haven’t bought the only football option in some years.
Gotta plant your feet eventually.

Very true, man.
Rudy Gay, Patty Mills and certain other veterans that haven't gone in for a new scan stick out like a sore thumb.
If they can make MJ look damn near photo realistic without the benefit of scanning him, then there shouldn't be anything stopping them from updating more NBA veterans.
Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

This is what it looks like when you have no competition.

I dunno. I watched it back to back with the 2K22 trailer and naturally it seems similar. Body types as in originally suspected are identical. Lighting might look a bit more vibrant and it doesn’t SEEM to come with more washed out colors (i.e reverting back to washed colors after 22 corrected it), but early pics suggested it did so I’ll wait to see that.
Luka, Jokic, Kendrick, late Shaq, these guys need to look ”fat,” even harden looks too fit. I was looking through the hop/step back jumper sigs (I think it is) and Lukas is hilariously lazy. Either he’s the luckiest nba player in history and that’s how he really moves or he just didn’t try. The other sigs show guys aggressively pivoting, stepping back etc. and Luka looks like a 90 year old granny with a bad hip, it’s comical. He jogs up, does the weakest and smallest side and back step ever, then shoots.
I need to see how MJ looks on court and mostly if they updated or gave him new sigs that add to his immersion. Other legend updates would help too.
I was very content with keeping 2K22 as it plays great for me and I spend months fixing and editing rosters and it’s tedious to deal with dialing a new 2K game in through all the updates and changes to gameplay, sudden glitches to wait through etc. But MJ being updated was my one weakness and amazingly enough, they did it.

Honestly, all I care about is the esthetics. I paused the trailer on the Heat/Celtics scene. It is insulting as a fan to see Jaylen Brown still wearing an undershirt like it's 2020 in the Disney bubble. After playing in the Finals and 3 high profile ECP series. Do the guys in the art department at 2K even watch basketball? Do they just watch highlights on TikTok? All of the Celtics in white socks w/ black shoes like it's the 80's. Another year of dated sneakers from 2017 and player accessories that don't match up w/ brand new face scans. LONG LIVE THE PG1!!!

Well said. All I really care about is aesthetics too. Aside from the lighting, new coach attire, and Udoka scan, there isn’t anything in this trailer that impressed me. Extremely underwhelmed. Smh.
This art team has a serious lack of attention to detail.

Unfortunately money talks and i think the 2k art department who used to be responsible for just giving us accurate player likeness, accessories etc are now tasked with creating go karts, scooters and the latest clothes from some brand for myplayer/mypark players because people will pay for it.
The NBA portion of NBA2k would seem to becoming less and less relevant for 2k.

I like the NBA emotions and smooth animations. The crowd seems a little livelier as well. Officially 2K season.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

Probably, The City or whatever is where the money is at for 2k, so they couldn't care less about the rest. It's indeed as others have said the lack of competition. And watch the dev blogs talk about innovative new things to dazzle the casuals, but looks like I'll not be playing 2k again, which is fine. Maybe once it's $20 just to play the MJ mode. I feel things were better when we had Czar among others interact with us on here.

Guys i think even gameplay wouldn't matter at launch. They keep changing gameplay so much with updates the original unupdated version of the game is the best version of the game for the last 2 years for me and for many. So we'll get excited with new gameplay video next week but i hope the good things will be kept about gameplay after launch with updates. I only play the game offline so i think they should keep the online and offline part seperately when they update the game...

Im just waiting till gameplay details come out.
Im sure REC matchmaking will still be the same ****hole it still is, so just curious how much nonesense will be in the game this time.
Wonder how the playerbuilds will be and how much cheese will be possible.
Got little hope that they redo the badges a bit.
If 3 are toned down then that would be nice but i doubt it though.
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Operation Sports

THIS right here.

I’ll wait for the inevitable steep sale or availability on PS+

This is why I scoff at the idea that online gets all the attention
Rec’s biggest change has been what? XMas jerseys in 2K21
PNO………don’t get me started
I know there’s a lot of bread to butter but man…it’s tough out here lol

Let it be known that this is already the worst 2K ever from a minute and a half hype trailer LMAOO
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

At this point - After reading through a “majority” of the posts - I “feel” the only way to satisfy a “majority” of the 2K crowd is to have an NBA player “virtually” high five the “user” from the TV set - This coming from someone who played NBA back from the Commodore 64 days! It’s 2K - And I’m looking forward to ANOTHER year! LET’S GO!!! 🏀

Crowd looks good
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

All of their worst fears have been realized after only one trailer. This is the final game and dont tell them different. They know all they need to know about 2K23 already. No need for the yearly pity party melodrama rants that we have heard a billion times already.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

I've come to accept that I have different expectations than others here and there's nothing wrong with that. Of course I want the best playing, best looking NBA videogame experience but I'm not going to deep dive into body models and defensive rotations. At this point in my life I'm more concerned with finding time to play a game and when I do get to play, I'm not focusing on body proportions or if the defense helped properly (though this does stand out more than body models).
That said, props to those that have the time and energy to fight the good fight and point out any and all flaws. It will only make for a better game if those shortcomings are improved, it's just not going to kill the experience for me if they aren't completely addressed. I've enjoyed pretty much every 2k I've played, which is every 2k since they first released on PS2, and I'm sure I'll end up having fun with this one as well.

I defy even the snarkiest "lol these guys are already worried" repliers to watch that very first Lavine clip and tell me the defense is in any way acceptable in the year 2022, especially after two straight years of the community telling 2K that PnR and help defense is broken and the hedge defender AI is unacceptable.
Just look at the 3 defenders standing there doing nothing, with Valanciunas standing flat footed facing away from Lavine and doing nothing as he goes up for the dunk, and tell me that I shouldn't worry that 2K23's offline gameplay is in trouble due to 2K ignoring the #1 complaint from the past 2 years straight.
The graphics look good, the lighting looks great, the presentation and atmosphere looks much improved. I'm not disputing any of that. But if basic PnR defense is still completely broken (and may I add, unfixable via roster/slider edits?) then the offline USER vs. CPU gameplay is D.O.A.

Still just a dunk in a trailer to me.
Imagine looking at that Draymond block and proclaiming “help defense is back”, lol
Just seems a bit premature to freak out either way.
I understand what time of year it is though, so it’s all good.

I guess another year having to wait for price to drop to $27.99, this game or any other sports game is not worth $69.99 price tag. I can afford it, but won't do it until I see vidual improvements.
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Again no defense

Might be just me but along with the better lighting and finally lit up crowds (you can see upper rows again), the hardwood might be a little cold and icy looking. The bulls clip has the wood looking pale. Watched the 22 trailer and the colors looked more saturated and wood looked richer but also darker.

Yes, but the hedge defender just standing and watching a layup/dunk has been an issue for 2 straight years and it completely ruins the game. The PnR is a staple of the modern offense, and having the defense stand and watch on the PnR is not just something we can ignore or put up with. It's one of those things that single handedly makes the game unplayable for me, and I'm sure many other user vs. CPU players feel the same way.

The target demographic has changed and that’s clear. The franchise has shifted in order to take advantage of said change. Park rules everything! It’s where the profits are and honestly, I don’t blame them.
When Da Czar said that we demand the most out of the game while simultaneously spending the least about of money… he wasn’t lying. I spend $70 per year on this game, maybe 150 depending on the year. That’s it! Online players spend hundreds per year on this game through VC alone. It’s no comparison.
I had to check myself tbh. I’d ask for things like realistic foot planting, unique body types for every player, A.I logic to be human like (especially on defense), and a whole slew of things that aren’t even realistically able to be done with even our current hardware, but yet I wanted this stuff in the ps3. Just plain stupid.
The point I’m trying to make is that we either enjoy these games for what they are? Or simply don’t play them. Because it’s clear to me now more so than ever that we are never getting a true basketball simulator. The market just isn’t there.
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Well its lavine.
So the right bussines decision would to just pretend you saw it to late to rotate tbh.
Yall aint having me posterized on the highlights every damm day rest of the year lol
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Operation Sports

Its really tough out there.
PNO dead bruh.
I imagine this 2k will be another off who can get shoot the most 3 at a clip higher then curry can ever dream off
Its just a pull up 3 party and with rec just having to play against stacks you just better off quitting the first min in tbh.
If you stay its basically a 1 on 5 with dudes then just dancing off after you turn the ball over.
**** toxic for real.
So with PNO dead and REC basicially boring with the horrible matchmaking im just on the fence to get this game.
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Operation Sports

I get it, not disagreeing with you on the actual issue at all, We just don’t know enough yet.
Just like this pic from a lot of peoples GOAT 2K’s trailer doesn’t encapsulate the games defense:
Editors are going to make it so that their footage is prime for highlights.
but we’ll see what happens, just trying to stay reasonable until we see some real game footage

music in the trailer is disappointing. There was a time when 2k would put us on to new artists....
There is so much to comment about, but overall the trailer is average. That feeling that 2k used to give me on a yearly basis is gone. Maybe it has to do with age, staleness, or 2k going commercial.

Probably a bit of everything.
For a lot of us long-time 2K fans, our initial draw was how this underdog company was just out there trying to make the best basketball simulation possible, end of story. They knew they couldn't out-Live NBA Live so they carved out their own quiet niche as the hoops game with the underground music that was just out there trying to innovate and create the most realistic game of NBA basketball possible.
Through their own success and other game's unforced errors, they are what NBA Live used to be. They're not just the choice for sim fans, they're the choice for all fans. And really, it's not even a choice. They're literally the only option. As such, there's no doubt their mission statement has expanded well beyond the 2006-era of "Let's make a great simulation basketball game and see if that leads to financial windfall for us." The financial windfall of today, in part, comes largely from elements that have very little, if anything, to do with simulation basketball.
2K obviously still moves the actual NBA portion of their game forward to some degree each year. But just as obvious is the understanding that there's no way strides in that regard can be as significant when so much time and so many resources must also be devoted things like MyPlayer, Street, and MyTeam.
What you get as a result are these milquetoast trailers that seem just about interchangeable from one year to the next at this point.
We've come a long way from the days of Momentous Celtic reveal trailers, for better in some ways, for worse in others.

These videos do a really good job displaying the visual differences between 2k22 and 2k23. The new lighting and overall warmer / more saturated tone of the game, is something that doesn’t really hit you (or seem impressive) until you see a side by side comparison.

Please get fouls and help D right this year.????Or at least make the sliders actually work. This game has gotten really arcadey the past few years. I love the NBA and really would enjoy a simulation of it.

Why did Beluba make this game Arcadey offline for a few years i can understand if just for my park
Its like the Devs took a long break since 20
They threw us MYNBA blog in a tone like here now shut up
Because they hit ghost and now they're back for another blog
Can they at least have Q&A?

Color palette looks much better in 2K23, in my opinion. Kind of reminds me of 2K16, but toned down a little and looks more realistic than 2K22's.

LMAO they really made a MyStaff feature NOBODY ASKED FOR and that barely works and called it a day

trailer looks great, just wish defenders seemed more engaged or part of the action.

100%
They went from a critical success to a commercial success. 2K doesn't care about being seen as a great game, so long as their paychecks stay fat. Make no mistake -- they're no longer a loved, critical success. They're just McDonalds. Popular, big profits, but give me In&Out over them 10 out of 10 times if I want a quality burger. They've burned Sim Nation too many times. We're jaded. Upcoming "Dev Blogs" are laughable now when it just looks good on paper, when you've lost all respect, when we know Devs don't control 2K, when there's gameplay glitches that have been in the game for years, when we know they're just cave to the social media 12 yr olds who whine "the game is too hard!!" and patch the game after a few weeks from launch.
They've transitioned from the come-ups to the fat cats, with their new business model being one like EA Madden NFL has been for years -- (Not "how do we build a great game"), it's "How do we trick fans with great marketing that we still care about basketball and that this is a quality game". Why innovate or try when you can just trick fans with marketing.
On top of that, years of "Grinding" feels more like work than having fun or competing. People already have jobs, they don't need another job just trying to play a pay to play videogame (that costs $300+ to be able to compete online).

2K hasn't been the same since Rob Jones left. He's the only Dev you could trust to give a crap about basketball.

Let's also be fair about this. There is only so much you can innovate when it comes to the game of basketball. At some point they were bound to go outside of just playing basketball. I can't fault them for that. I believe they still care about basketball but they also care about what makes them money. At the end of the day that matters even more than trying to appease the hardcore fan base. Of course this could be handled but expanded their dev team.

YO i had to look at the NBA 2k22 cover and see if it still say The #1 rated basketball game lol
They need to take that off untill they go back to their old Simulation roots
And if they dont update roster Tendancies in the updates ima scream
Take two interactive is morphine into old school EA just look how they got rid if some GTA OG's and becoming more woke for the next GTA

While fair, why is passing still like it was 20+ years ago? It is easily the most frustrating part about the game w/ steals by AI being way too easy and fast breaks being very frustrating, so a way around that would be to have a much more diverse, robust and expanded options to pass.

They care about money man.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Just dont pretend and sell it any other way.
If they truly cared about basketball aint no way we would have gotten what we have right now.
The series was never a true sim but with its popularity increased it moved towards arcade with every new game.
I feal sorry for all the hard work the Czar has been doing….
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Operation Sports

I truly think some people are way too hard on this game. It definitely isn’t perfect and some years have been all around horrible, but calling it Madden or saying it’s what Live used to be is just wrong flat out. Like is making a pure simulation fully what they care about now? No. But the game (usually with tweaks), can and has moments where it plays really well. Taking off my nostalgia glasses real quick, no 2K ever played perfect. I’ve been looking at sliders and such since like 2K9/10. The way some people talk about it you’d think the game was at one point perfect and then they screwed it all up.
2K still has a lot to work on, they don’t always keep it 100 with us and there are still things in the game that need serious fixes but, minus micro transactions, I don’t think this game is falling off a cliff and abandoning all their “old” simulation principles. I hold a lil hope year by year that they fix the stuff they need to, but regardless of what they do, a trailer isn’t going to make me think a game is immediately doomed and bad especially given the track record of NBA 2K.

Rob was the Senior Producer, not a developer
and If microtransactions are your sticking point, He’s the one that said they’re an unfortunate part of modern gaming, and he was the producer on one of the worst offenders in 2K18.
That’s not me putting all the blame on Rob or saying it was solely his directive…
but yeah….

Quite honestly, if NBA Live were to have ever had an honest motto or mission statement, it very well may have been, "Is a simulation fully what we care about? No. But the game (usually with tweaks), can and has moments where it plays really well."
That aside, my comparison to NBA Live was not meant to be interpreted as 2K literally being only as good as, say, NBA Live 2009. Rather, the intention was to illustrate how 2K has now become the Big Tent game that Live always used to be. It's the game for everyone now, so 2K's mission statement of being "the No. 1 simulation basketball game" year in and year out isn't enough. They've got bigger fish to fry and a bigger, more diverse audience to please, particularly compared to our little niche community back in 2006.
As acknowledged, improvements to core gameplay still come along. And authentic improvements do, too. It's wild to see how amazing some of these graphics are today. It's just, we're not all on the same page anymore, and I imagine that's even true among those who are developing NBA 2K as we speak. I have little doubt there's a core contingent at 2K who either left when its vision splintered, or are actively displeased in many ways when it comes to how much virtual currency and online gamerism has stolen the development's focus.
I'm not saying I hate 2K for making money. But it was more of a way of answering another poster who was trying to figure out why they don't get hyped by these trailers like they used to.
This is absolutely true. They literally took away the ability to block dunks in one iteration back in the early 2010's (maybe 2K12).
For me, it's more about how I used to hang my hat on real-deal, on-court simulation innovation year in and year out. It wouldn't always happen, but I had good reason to believe it would. Generally speaking, we knew nearly all resources were being geared toward making the best NBA basketball game possible.
Today, 2K's stumbled into the realization that only making the best NBA basketball simulation possible would be throwing millions of dollars into a bonfire. From a business perspective, it'd almost be silly for them not to cater to the portion of the game that's leading to people pouring in more and more money via virtual currency year in and year out.
But in turn, I don't know, if you'd asked me back in 2012 what I thought 2K might look like 10 years from then, I think I'd be impressed from a visual perspective but I might be a bit more unpleasantly surprised once I took a look under the hood. "Wait, so the defense still hyperwarps from place to place to stop you from getting an edge you earned off the dribble? And why are guys hitching oddly when receiving outlet passes on fast breaks? Well, at least classic mode must be pretty sick by now, right? And I'd presume MyPlayer has now had full-on G-League and college incorporation to create the most realistic player lock career in sports franchise history, right? And I have zero percent doubt that 2K's NBA All-Star Weekend has finally eclipsed NBA Live 2005's by now."
2K's focus has changed, and it's completely understandable why it has. They'll hit the areas they used to hit every now and again, and people will say, "Seeeee, and you thought they didn't care about real basketball anymore" (this year's Jordan Challenge, which I bet will be sick), but those improvements are now fighting among all the different gamer needs for which 2K must cater. It's the price of success.

Shhhhh, be quiet with that well thought out reasonable take. Gonna get all the haters and constant complainers riled up.
Seriously though, the game has definitely veered away from its original mission statement. That is a given with the tremendous growth of the user base and how they need to now appease that much wider base.
The game has improved in some areas, "regressed" in some and stagnated in other places.
Unfortunately, I think this current "new gen" of 2K (on PS5 & XBox Series X/S) is held back by how many folks are still on XBox One, PS4 and Switch. I understand they have separate development houses working on the titles, but "new gen" can't be too feature rich, superior in too many areas (AI, controls, etc.) or the complaining would be loud and non-stop.
Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

My guess would be that decisions like microtransactions and focusing on modes featuring microtransactions isn't necessarily a decision being made by the NBA 2k team and likely comes from the publisher. Even if Rob Jones or Mike Wang wanted to focus on making the best, most realistic basketball simulation and maybe deemphasize microtransactions, the publisher is going to be looking at the money. They aren't going to care about public and critical reception if the game is making less money.
So if you are the head producer/director for the game, where are you putting your attention and resources? Into the modes that will make more money and ultimately provide job security or into modes and features that will please a specific section of the fan base but ultimately won't move the needle in terms of sales and money made?

I swear if I was 2k I would show y’all mofos not trying by removing every damn feature but park
I would Madden 06 Xbox 360 yall asses

Sure, no 2K has ever had "perfect" gameplay, but I'm not asking for miracles here. All I need is three things:
1) Realistic, functional PnR and help defense AI.
2) Realistic representation of fouls across the board.
3) Make the foul sliders have drastic effects, especially at extreme values, (if I set something to 100, that foul should trigger ridiculously often).
As a USER vs. CPU player, that's all I need. The rest can be taken care of via our current slider/roster edit capabilities.

Yes above and additional to be fix.
- CPU consistent "Timeout" every quarter
- CPU 3-point shot fouls
- CPU unrealistic speed boost on off-ball defense
- CPU centre's dribbling the ball down half court.
- CPU unrealistic follow up shot/Alley oops.

Wonder if that LeBron foul on Booker was just cut a certain way or if those graze-type fouls are in the game

It's only a handful of people, but there are a few folks who seem to think that because 2K is a great game or much better than some other sports games in their opinion that it should somehow be immune from really strong criticism or even pessimism about foundational aspects of basketball that are simply missing.

Fortunately, there haven’t been any posts (I’ve seen) disagreeing that things like help defense and pick and roll coverage need to improve at all.
People pushing back against the doom and gloom and injecting bit of perspective into the discussion is always needed and welcome though, Otherwise every pre release thread devolves into a “state of 2K” forum.

I agree with defense needing to be improved but in no way shape or form, do I ever want EA level progression from VC. They are trending in the wrong direction rn, but I have hope they will keep moving forward. Didn't really play 2k22 as much but interested in 23. Pre-ordered it and hoping for more fouls at the minimum.
I just laugh as I'm more a football gamer than bball. Yall don't even want to joke about EA level improvements. Be happy with the heaven you have. It's not hell yet lol.
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Best case scenario would be if they broke up the Shooting Foul slider into two so we could increase fouls at the rim separately from fouls on jump shots.
And I did miss one thing in my list: Get rid of that stupid rubber-band speed cap crap on the fast break. Why is the offense artificially slowed down so that the defense can get into position on the break? Foolish.

Yea, them highlighting a foul on a jump shot gives me hope that they're finally fixing the lack of fouls issue that has plagued the game for as long as I can remember.

This comment gave me PTSD.
As long as my fast breaks and first steps are artificially nerfed to allow a CPU defensive player to warp back in front of me on account of an insufficient movement system, we've got plenty of room for improvement.
My hot take is that someday—even if it's 10 years from now—we'll look back at how sluggish and rigid players move on a frequent basis in today's 2K's and wonder how we ever possibly settled for that. Then again, maybe 10 years from now we're still using the same movement system.

Maybe I'm just an oldhead finally adjusting to the trend of NBA 2K, but I'm going to be honest after playing this game online since NBA 2K4.
After playing good chucks of MyPlayer and MyTeam (NBA 2K22 anyways), I kinda do find the NBA portion rather boring and stale. My God...you all don't know how much I LOVED playing NBA 2K20 MyPlayer with my center and point guard at that moment. MyTeam was a pleasant surprise this year given the level of control that I had over my roster. As a gamer, I've been trending myself to more team oriented games. Aliens:Fireteam and World War Z are my most played games at the moment. Having said that and speaking mostly as a PNO player (I'm just not ready to say "former PNO player", lol)....
MyPlayer gave me a feeling of being the "Da Man" that I can never replicate in PNO. There's something intoxicating about carrying a team (obviously depends on the matchmaking) or being a difference maker that leads to a win. I play strictly solo, but I love the challenge and real life representation of what it's like to show up, put a team together, then try to smash the other team into submission.
MyTeam gave me the competition of PNO without the stupid tiers, but I had the power to put together the team and coach I wanted. MyTeam has gotten ridiculous of late due overpowered cards (I stopped playing actually), but from release day to about April...I didn't really see a difference (actual games) between it and playing PNO. In fact, I was getting more variety in teams I was playing against, because I'm competing against players that played the game since the NBA was formed. It was a great feeling putting a Pacers team of my choice and running them. TO BE FAIR, the real life Pacers haven't been good and decimated by injuries for several years now, so I will say that had a part in me trying MyTeam in the first place.
I respect those who want a true NBA 5v5 sim experience with regular NBA teams, but I don't think that's the future anymore nor it's a past that Take Two should continue to make their main priority. Yes, I agree that 3PT shooting needs to be toned down, PnR defense needs work, better footing, etc, but I feel those are more "technical" improvements versus improvements for the game of basketball.
Lastly, to continue to blame "lack of competition" and act like NBA 2K as fallen off the cliff as a basketball game is disingenuous. No, I'm not drinking any NBA 2K kool-aid, but until I see it, I really don't believe that there's a company that can make a better basketball game. A company can do a "few things" better than NBA 2K, but they NEED the COMPLETE "PACKAGE" to compete. There's not a single NBA 2K gamer who would completely abandon the game simply, because "NBA Game other than NBA 2K" had better colors. The one thing that I like about NBA 2K (which could be a curse or blessing depending on your perspective) is that you can get lost in one mode to the point where you don't have time for the other modes. What other game offers that?

It reminded me of a pre-2K16 fouls that felt a lot more natural. I guess we’ll see. The “auto foul” era was a wild one.
AGREED on the fast break hitch. Saw someone give the standard “because online” speil about it, but it benefited absolutely no one…except the “chase down artists” maybe lol
It wasn’t in ‘21 so I’m not sure how it creeped back. It was also supposedly “patched” and kept right on existing.

Like i said before the 4 major US sports are like this
1. Madden got a every thing problem
2. MLB got a status quo problem
3. 2k got a trying to do too much problem
4. NHL got a nobody cares problem lol

2k really needs to dial it in on these player models. That's about the only thing holding them back graphically. Textures and lighting all look superb.

If that be the case, that's a pretty serious issue for people who want to play a great game of actual NBA basketball.
I guess it'd depend upon who you're quoting or referencing here, but I can speak for what I meant when I referenced the hypothetical existence of competition.
No competition to 2K currently exists and it'll likely stay that way for the foreseeable future. My take isn't necessarily that EA, 989, Microsoft, or whoever else would be making better complete games. What I am saying is that we all benefit when when competition exists, period.
Each basketball simulation, in its time, offered something to the video game basketball world that we can see as cornerstones of 2K to this day. 989's game was always garbage in my opinion, but they cultivated the first iteration of MyPlayer Mode (I believe called The Life). EA Sports introduced right stick dribbling, a dedicated dunk/layup button, a functional and endlessly replayable All-Star Weekend, a deep trove of retro jerseys, etc., and Microsoft's Inside Drive paved the way for in-depth coaching strategy and execution.
What you get when there's competition is a collection of ideas that push the genre forward as a whole. Who knows what other progressive concepts and features other games may have introduced by now that could have benefitted 2K down the line? Maybe someone finally solves All-Star Weekend. Maybe someone implements a more fluid dribbling system. Maybe it's just some silly detail like manually controlling championship celebrations. Maybe someone nails a realistic version of MyPlayer and it's a hit. Whatever the case, those ideas move everyone to the next level.
Not to mention, when competition existed, consumers had a choice. Most preferred either 2K or Live, some wanted that NBA Street experience, and the rest probably settled for the 989 game their grandma bought them for Christmas. If 2K's gameplay was too rigid, Live and their fluid dribble stick was there waiting. And if Live didn't seem to see true 5v5 sim as their future nor a current priority, 2K was waiting with open arms.
Without competition, a consumer's only choices are 2K or nothing. And considering your take that simulation basketball isn't 2K's future nor should it be a main priority now, that's a bummer for the still significant contingent of gamers who just want to see realistic basketball gaming move forward faster than a snail's pace without having to wonder why gameplay keeps getting warped and twisted to account for online street exploits.
MLB The Show, for one. And I can get lost in the respective mode of my choice without feeling like I'm being hit over the head with an online hammer. I'm four years deep into my Twins franchise and the single player simulation gameplay always seems to make sense. Guys aren't warping to rob my home runs and guys aren't pulling chest high sliders on the outside of the plate into the upper deck.
Best of all, I played Road to the Show (their MyPlayer) and had a great time without ever having to visit a fantastical cruise ship or neighborhood to further develop my player. Not only that, but my player was literally my player, not a movie character with a terrible nickname getting backstabbed by a fictional agent and girlfriend. It felt... real.

😂😂😂💯💯💯😂😂😂😂

Could be, could be not a serious issue. It just depends how you define a "great" game of NBA basketball. A "great" game of basketball, for me, is physically playing. Videogame wise, I just need for it to be a "good" game of basketball. However, I have always said that my standards are lower than most.

I don't dispute the importance and historical impact that competition has had in the past. However (and I think I've say this before), if a company is unable to bring a complete package to compete against NBA 2K, then they're basically wasting money only for NBA 2K to poach their ideas to make their game even better. That's just not a smart business decision. Competition is good for the consumer. Bad for the company who's losing money over it.

I've been meaning to try The Show, but I'm not a baseball fan or even curious about the sport in any shape or form. I have heard great things about the game, but I genuinely don't like baseball. The last time I enjoyed a baseball game was back in the NES days.

Would competition really mean that much(to offline gamers) when every sports game maker these days focuses on online and money making parts of the game?

21 Next Gen DEFINITELY had the fast break hitch. And yeah they said they fixed it but they didn’t. I’d say 21’s hitch is identical to 22’s.

If every competitor had the same exact mission and vision, then no, it wouldn't be ideal.
That being said, deviating from an existing business plan of an already financially successful model is sometimes what leads to breakthroughs over the long haul. That's kind of what 2K did in the face of Live's uber-successful arcade-friendly model in the 2000's. 2K slowly nipped away at Live, created a cult following of people who believed in their devotion to quality and authenticity, and set themselves up for a big move into the 2010's.
Sometimes we need that competition to show us another way. When Live introduced those violently shaking backboards in 2002, 2K popped up and said, "Yeah, or maybe you guys could try something a little different over here." To put it another way, when EA NHL is your only option for a hockey simulation, we all lose.
Unfortunately, even while not understanding the nooks and crannies of sports video game economics, it seems like it's harder than ever to break into professional sports gaming, to the point that even considering the hypothetical existence of competition is borderline comical. The original reason the phrase "competition" popped up in this discussion in the first place was simply as a supporting means of explaining 2K's relative complacency or lack of significant innovation year by year.

What I’m talking about wasn’t present in NG ‘21

I feel like you give the spirit of competition and "devoted fans" too much credit for its rise. I would argue that NBA Live was merely the name to bet at the time, because the name has been around since the Sega Genesis days. NBA 2K5 was really what put the game on the map, and it was mainly due to selling the game at $20. The same was true for NFL 2K5. Madden was the name to beat, but it didn't get on the map until the $20 price point. NFL 2K's potential was halted immediately by EA's purchase of the NFL license.
In hindsight, NBA Live was never really a "great" basketball game. NBA 2K was the superior game, and Take Two took a chance with the $20 price to prove it. It paid off. NBA Live continued to make a poor product met with declining sales and the one good (and last year) game they had was NBA Live '10 when Mike Wang helped develop it. In the end, NBA 2K is not the "better" game due to competition. They're the better game, because they had the better talent, and Take Two continued to invest in the talent. Give credit where credit is due. Respect the Talent. The Talent that used to openly take feedback from the community before the entitled gamers starting showing up and scared them off.

It’s not a crime to ask for proper defensive rotations/AI (I think they’ll continue to work on this) in a NBA basketball game, though, nor is it that serious lol...
Especially, since they were once features 2K excelled at in previous iterations (ie: 2K16, 2K17, and 2K20 are still solid in those areas).
2K21 it was admittedly pretty bad (Tzar acknowledged this) and this year it showed signs of life, even though patches probably ruined the pristine vision the devs originally intended from a gameplay perspective.
I just hope they stick to their vision.
I don’t believe people are expecting “perfection”, but a return to form “all-around”. They’re asking for an unrivalled experience 2K once gave and...
They are competing with themselves and unfortunately, as it stands today, a lot of their older games seemed all-around better, even from a critical standpoint (with or without micro transactions: 2K11/2K16).
I still enjoy 2K sometimes, it’s just starting to feel a little “too samey” year to year. That was exactly how I felt after this trailer, as well. But I’m sure it will be an improvement (a shake up is needed).

This all comes back to my point. In the 2000's, NBA 2K was the competition. If we had a modern sports video game landscape in the 2000's, that means we all would have had to settle with NBA Live and that would be the end of it (and honestly, I thought that was coming in 2005 after the NFL signed an exclusivity deal with EA).
Instead, the existence of competition is what allowed the cream to rise to the top, even if it was a slow rise. Everyone threw in their own ideas as to how to make a great game and the consumer benefited by having choices and watching games go through their own motivated iterations of innovation.
I mean, the whole reason I joined Operation Sports 20 years ago was literally to follow NBA 2K. I'm relatively certain that my purchase of 2K2, 2K3, ESPN NBA Basketball 2004, 2K5, 2K6, 2K7, 2K8, 2K9, 2K10, 2K11, 2K12, and 2K13 was a solid way to respect the talent. I'm very glad NBA 2K was able to compete with Live as opposed to facing the same fate as NFL 2K.
But what we have now is four professional sports and four professional sports games. You know how many we had in 2004-2005? Thirteen (at least). If you're a hockey fan, you seem to be permanently stuck with an awful representation of hockey. And if you're a football fan, it's been Madden or die since '06. I actually think NBA fans have been one of the lucky ones (along with MLB, though that was PS exclusive until 2021).
NBA 2K still does many things great. I've been pleased with the experience and poured hours into the game as recently as 2K20. But they're undeniably in a position similar to that of NBA Live in the 2000's. They're in the driver's seat, except no one else is even in the car this time around. From looking at every other sports genre, it seems tougher than ever to get a sports game off the ground in today's market. Maybe there's other talent out there but they just have no means to express it. I'm not even sure a 2K could have started in today's climate in the face of an NBA Live 2000-like product.
What this all means is that we're at the whim of 2K and they get decide the game is whatever they want it to be, for better or worse. If they crank out something amazing, we all win. If they don't, too bad. But the fact folks can state their displeasure with minimal year-to-year improvements (and even regressions in some cases) when it comes to authentic basketball and be met with variations of "well authentic 5v5 isn't a priority nor should it be moving forth" and "respect the talent" is kind of the crux of the whole issue in the first place.

I'm always hoping, with the next gen version, the Madison Square Garden and TD Garden will make their debut in this year version....

Yea, every console generation it seems the first 2K release is terrible but with great graphics, the second release is decent as they add in a lot of the basic features that were missing in the previous release, and then the 3-5 releases are where the series really shines as they finally build off a solid foundation and fine tune the changes they started to bring earlier in the generation. After that, they start to spin the wheels and overtly focus only on the online monetization modes to squeeze every last penny out of the series until the next console gen releases, and the cycle repeats.
Here’s hoping 2K23 stays true to the trend and we get this console generations 2K16-equivalent.

Huh? NBA Live was the best basketball game at the time and absolutely pushed 2K to create the best games they could before obviously taking over the mantle and running with it. Live brought a ton of features to the table that 2K put their own spin on and improved on over the years.
I have no idea how anyone can look at the history of sports games and come to the conclusion that competition isn’t important. Every sport, every time, thrived when there was competition and then stagnated once exclusivity set in. It happens 100% of the time. Competition breeds innovation, and innovation breeds evolution and improvement. Once competition is lost, so to goes the rate of innovation and improvement.

NBA Live was the most popular and well-known game at the time. The first time I played/tried NBA 2K, I knew then that it was the better game, and I began trying to convert people to it. In my eyes, I believe that NBA 2K would have eventually taken the mantel with or without EA screwing themselves. Most of the people that I tried to convert mainly didn't convert, because they "been playing Live for years.". The NFL 2K series could have eventually taken the mantel from Madden too. 2K Sports (as a company) just know how to make sports games. For me, I give the credit to the development team for WANTING to create the best basketball game (arguably out of love for the game) versus some imaginary pressure caused by the presence of NBA Live or any other NBA game that was on the market at the time.
If competition was so important, then NBA Live wouldn't have died off like it did. The competition that came from NBA 2K just made people realize that they were playing an inferior product for a very long time. NBA 2K is on another level with their game which is why I scoff at the idea that "competition" will make it even better. I say and will continue to say that NBA 2K is its own competition, and another company would have to come out the gate swinging with never thought of innovation to even have a chance.
Call me crazy, but innovation was easier to achieve back then, because gaming technology was changing at a rapid rate too. For me, there's a difference between innovation birthed from "thinking outside of the box" and innovation birthed due to new technology. Nowadays, I feel most of NBA 2K's "problems" is mostly technical (clipping, foot planting, etc), pressure from the gaming community for the game to be a certain way, AI programming, and priorities.
EDIT: Funny...I just read the new gameplay details, and in one shape or another they touched on the technical problems (clipping, foot planting, etc), pressure from the gaming community for the game to be a certain way, AI programming, and priorities.

There's really not a good discussion to be had when someone has such a deeply reverential feeling about NBA 2K or 2K in general.

or scorned/rooted against it. Goes both ways.
I’m hoping that everything in the blog works out the way it should….sounds like much more than a copy and paste deal with minimal improvements. These things eventually get hand waved off over the cycle of course but props to Czar and the team for the work they put in.

I couldn't agree with you more about competition and how much stock people put in it now. Outside of exclusively, more than one game should still exist out of the major sport titles.
Truth is, even when there were many titles to choose from the companies always followed their own roadmap and developer vision. Just like every other game. It worked out for some and not for others. It happens in game development.
The companies around now are following their visions still. I personally think they are still innovating, just on their timeline and on what the respective dev teams prioritize. I may not always like the innovations or how they're implemented but I see it. And I dont think competition just because would cause the teams to do anything differently. They are what they are.
I so badly want 2K to implement a TNT or NBATV like broadcast package. If Live was still around with that great ESPN package and sold just as well as 2K, I dont think 2K would follow suit just because the competition has it.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

Most definitely. I know I sound a little bitter of late, but I'm pretty confident that game will be solid. As I have said in other threads, I've been more angry with the gaming community and how they play the game versus being angry with the actual game itself.

I did like the ESPN presentation in NBA Live. NBA 2K seems "dry" to me, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Citing that the emergence of competition (2K) provided consumers with more quality consumer options literally makes the case for the existence of competition.
If Live had full exclusivity, the ability for competition to come through with a better product would have never been possible. For better or worse, we all would have been stuck with Live, just like we're stuck with Madden. 2K was the competition that allowed consumers to benefit.
I'm wondering if you may have one-tracked this whole competition concept a little bit, focusing only on the notion that competition propels development teams forward. I think that's only one possible benefit from competition. The other is the freedom of choice for consumers beyond "our game or nothing".
There was a time in the mid-90's when I thirsted for NBA Live year in and year out. I still remember unlocking classic players and the rookie class on Live '96 and downloading Live '97 on my Micron. But when their product stopped resonating with me, I had options. And broadly speaking, in gaming or otherwise, options are good for us, the consumer.
You don't have to hate NBA 2K to believe in competition, mind you. Considering how many hours I poured into NBA 2K20, I don't think they're too off from getting back to something I would enjoy. But even with that being said, I'll still always land on the side of the existence of competition and options. If nothing else, maybe some kind of sports gaming competition would finally provide the hockey experience for which I've been yearning for the past decade.

The difference between having competition and not is incredibly simple: When there’s competition, the companies development philosophy sticks to “How do we get more players away from the other game”. Hence the improvement to core gameplay, the “stealing” of ideas and features and building on them with your own spin, etc.
When there isn’t competition, the philosophy now changes to “Ok, we have all the players. They have no choice. So since we already have all the players, how do we get more money out of them?”.
And therein lies the problem. Expanding on core gameplay features makes the players happier, sure, but they’re already buying your game regardless. So now it doesn’t really matter how happy they are, so long as the game isn’t so bad it pushes them away from playing that sports’ game entirely. But the entire focus inevitably shifts to ways to get more money out of the same players you already have, and thus we have ultimate team and MyPlayer and all the other crap that takes the focus away from the gameplay and into FOMO and “competitive PvP” mechanics/gimmicks.
So sure, discount competition all you like. You’re just ignoring the proven reality that the on-court/field/rink/pitch gameplay suffers while monetization modes thrive every single time competition has gone away. This isn’t an argument or a debate. It has nothing to do with “developer drive” or any of that nonsense. The big wigs take control and direct the focus towards monetization over everything else. And it happens every single time.

I see monetization as the natural evolution of the gaming industry, since it's not just NBA 2K that does it. The gaming industry still works on the concept of capitalism. You believe that companies are incapable of having the inner drive or desire to want to create a great product. I disagree. You believe that companies become "malicious" when they think they're the only game in town. I disagree
To me, it's really simple...NBA Live has been a non-factor since the NBA Elite days. No other company has really attempted to make another NBA game. So...is NBA 2K11 the same game as NBA 2K23 going to be? The only thing that the lack of competition does is remove the "measuring stick" of how "impactful" an innovation is. Every year, the NBA 2K franchise has done something to push the overall game forward (minus the damn PNO mode, but that's a different conversation). Whether or not you like the changes is a totally different story. However, I refuse to accept the belief that NBA 2K is somehow being stunted as a product due to the lack of competition when they try to do something different every year and at least make honest attempts to address the technical/AI problems with the game.
With Madden, I swear there was a 3-year run where the game was a copy/paste of the previous year. I don't feel like NBA 2K has ever done that (minus PNO mode, but even that mode has its slight changes).

Freedom of choice is nice when you have equal and comparable choices. If you're choosing between a well cooked steak from your favorite restaurant versus a small microwavable steak from Walmart, then freedom of choice via "competition" is an illusion.

I mean you keep asking questions and trying to argue with me, but as I said this is not an argument. It has been demonstrated for every major sports game, once competition is gone the year-to-year improvements grind to a halt and the focus shifts away from gameplay and into FOMO monetization.
Madden saw huge improvements year over year when NFL 2K was still around. NBA 2K had massive improvements every year when NBA Live was still around. Every year after the competition went away, the gameplay improvements got less and less and monetization became more and more prevalent. It is what it is.
You can argue that this trend isn't due to competition going away but just due to some kind of societal shift away from quality and into monetization, but I find that to be far too convenient.

Personally, I will always believe competition is a good thing. If for nothing more than for the benefit of the consumer.
However- The apex of the criticism toward 2K regarding micro transactions came during their most consistent period of modern day competition (15-19).
So I don’t necessarily agree with the correlation. I wouldn’t say (outside of ‘16) that any of those games are amongst the top tier 2K’s either.
but again, I think options are always better at the end of the day. I hope we eventually get some out there. As the Courtside thread shows, For some is doesn’t really matter what fresh ideas are presented at the end of the day, Some are just ready for a new experience altogether, Nothing wrong with that.

The bold is what I'm questioning. I don't believe NBA Live was competition during that period. They didn't put out an NBA Live 17 to compete with NBA 2K17 and Live 16, 18, 19 barely got any real movement. Even the YouTubers who put out Live content were low on views and the big YouTubers may have touched it once just to review it. Live has a chance now but they keep dropping the ball. Maybe it was enough "competition" to push 2K a little bit but it sure didn't scare them in sales and visibility.
On another note not pertaining to the above, Live 19 has more body contorting animations than 2K. The ability to change directions when dribbling to the basket without fancy dribble moves is better on Live. 2K is stiff. The half circle dribbling angle in 2K shows how stiff the midsection of the players are and how they don't angle their body momentum. They stiffly dribble with their body straight up and down if you don't do dribble moves. If you dribble around a defender in Live 19 you can see the players body bend and you can see the effort he/she makes to change directions toward the basket. I wish I had a video to show what I mean but everybody should know the 2K half circle dribble that beats a defender because the defender can't shuffle his feet fast enough and smoothly turn his body/hips to keep up. As a defender you have to go to the point where you think he is going or it's over. Easy driving basket without any dribble moves.
In Live 19 you don't have to go in a complete half circle. They make an effort to angle towards the basket and their body flexibility is very impressive.
I know I can't be the only one who noticed this. Not saying Live is perfect but it has it's good points. I'm glad their servers are still up. People still play it online today and it's just as toxic as 2K with ballhogs and selfish players.

I was a Live 19 fan, I took my center back out to Live Run a couple of months ago.
I definitely get what you’re saying.
For one, As someone pointed out to me, and now I can’t unsee, 2K’s models don’t have butts, so any contorting will naturally look better in Live since they have better player models… I’d probably agree with you on the change of direction overall as well
The problem for me always was when it came to the execution vs an actual defender. There were rarely any clean blow-by’s to get penetration, it was all regulated to a “get past you” animation….which looked nice, but it made offense feel more formulaic than free flowing.
They definitely had a lot of good concepts though! No question.

I don’t actually consider NBA Live as true competition for 2K during that 15-19 period. As I said previously, when there’s actual competition, the game design philosophy is “How do we get/keep more players?”, and by that point NBA Live was not stealing any players away from 2K. If they had put a dent in the 2K player base at any point, then the competitive aspect would have kicked in. But it was basically the equivalent of a 6 year old cousin showing up and saying “I bet I can beat you at Mario Kart!”. 2K didn’t break a sweat.

Like my old man always say...millionaires want to be billionaires. When they become billionaires, they want to be trillionaires. Society and capitalism is trending towards squeezing every cent possible out of consumers. So yes...monetization in video games was the next step to making people richer and had zero to do with the lack of competition. The convenience was discovering how easy people will open their wallets for microtransactions.

Right, it shifted from being on mobile games, free - to - play titles and now full priced retail games.
Like I've been saying since 2K introduced VC, we the consumer have to use discretion now more than ever. Can't expect any corporation to be hesitant to squeeze every dollar out of us.
Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation