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Madden NFL 19 Video - Denver Broncos vs. Los Angeles Chargers

Madden NFL 19

Madden NFL 19 Video - Denver Broncos vs. Los Angeles Chargers

EricRayweather has posted a new Madden NFL 19 gameplay video, featuring the Denver Broncos vs. Los Angeles Chargers. This is a final build copy. Check it out and post your thoughts.

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  1. 2 player tackle on the opening KO?
    Wow.
    CPU incomplete pass from Keenum?
    Good blitz pickup from Eric on screen pass under 2 minutes.
    Nice incompletion on User QB Rivers rollout in the endzone.
    Int in this video would have been a batted ball straight up in the air on 18. Nice.
    No conservatism from CPU with 1st down, 39 seconds left in the half, a risky PA pass. Big Plus.
    Love some of the immersion on the sidelines. Putting helmet down on the bench between quarters, kicker practicing with a tee on the sidelines. I know they have used the nets before, but I don't recall seeing a tee.
    IG call towards the end of the game.
    Rivers with a sidearm throw towards the sideline, I've seen him throw it like that on Sundays, nice.
    My only issue was the lack of the CPU run game. mmmmm
    I liked a lot of things in the video but two things that stick out to me is the lack of the cpu to be able to run the ball and then how the game ended.
    Cowboy008
    I liked a lot of things in the video but two things that stick out to me is the lack of the cpu to be able to run the ball and then how the game ended.

    is it all pro or ? i thought you hate arcade and Competitive style. yeah all video look so great but i hate arcade and Competitive
    Cowboy008
    I liked a lot of things in the video but two things that stick out to me is the lack of the cpu to be able to run the ball and then how the game ended.

    Fyi, CPU fumble slider is a modifier & determines how aggressive the rb plays. (I havent seen the vid yet)
    DaReal Milticket
    Fyi, CPU fumble slider is a modifier & determines how aggressive the rb plays. (I havent seen the vid yet)

    So if I turn up the cpu fumble slider it will make the RB be more aggressive? Wouldn't that also make the cpu fumble more as well?
    Cowboy008
    So if I turn up the cpu fumble slider it will make the RB be more aggressive? Wouldn't that also make the cpu fumble more as well?

    It works with cpu rblk has well. Not really more fumbles since normally only a few clicks is needed to notice a difference.
    Mixed bag as usual. Some things I liked, some made me go ugh. I love the contact catches. Wish that quality of animation was all over the field. Looks like a fun game for me as usual, not at the point where I see it as quality or a good product though. Hate this year's lighting. Looking forward to getting some more time with the game.
    Receivers were open nearly all, if not 100% of the time on drag routes over the middle for easy gains. Could literally just spam that all game and blow out the AI with ease.
    Game was played on Comp mode
    It will be interesting to see what gameplay changes the day one patch has
    RPM seems to have taken care of some movement flaws that will allow me to tune the defense to cover in a realistic fashion
    There are still some flaws in the CPU's situational play calling on defense. The folks who use custom playbooks will be able to take care of that, those of us who don't will still see the CPU struggle when they don't have great Corners and Safeties.
    shockl3y
    Yeah it’s been a theme that the AI run game is lacking. Wonder if the sliders could beef it up a bit to more realistic numbers.

    run blocking ? ai cpu logic is bad at run in in good holes or make special moves to make defender miss tackle
    DaReal Milticket
    Fyi, CPU fumble slider is a modifier & determines how aggressive the rb plays. (I havent seen the vid yet)

    Agreed. Also, if sliders are still the same as M17, if you lower user tackle slider, the cpu running game is much more effective. Really brings out the RB special moves without any unrealistic animations being triggered.
    First running play, Booker has at least 5 yards ahead of him, possibly even a 1v1 matchup with the DB...
    *jukes into a lineman*
    I need to stop watching these vids and just watch for 8/2 lol.
    shockl3y
    Yeah it’s been a theme that the AI run game is lacking. Wonder if the sliders could beef it up a bit to more realistic numbers.

    Yeah, I can never play Madden with default sliders, no matter the skill level. Game gets way better with slider adjustments imo.
    Cowboy008
    Regarding the end of the game is that EA's take on what is considered a catch?

    Hard to tell without a replay, but I thought he took a few steps in the endzone and lost the ball on the way down during the tackle.
    I thought game over before he went down for the tackle, just my take, though.
    DaReal Milticket
    Fyi, CPU fumble slider is a modifier & determines how aggressive the rb plays. (I havent seen the vid yet)
    We don't have statistical evidence of that
    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    underdog13
    We don't have statistical evidence of that
    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    Nope, dont have the time or want to show that. Been playing Madden for ever. Thats all the data I need. Just trying to help the community. Feel free to provide that data though.
    DaReal Milticket
    Nope, dont have the time or want to show that. Been playing Madden for ever. Thats all the data I need.
    That's fine, but state it as your opinion. It's more helpful to new users then.
    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    underdog13
    That's fine, but state it as your opinion. It's more helpful to new users then.
    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    My opinion, too.
    underdog13
    That's fine, but state it as your opinion. It's more helpful to new users then.
    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    Thanks bud. For all NEW users you might want to play around with the cpu fumble slider may help the cpu run game be more aggressive IMO.
    Wind is still incredibly strong. This drives me crazy.
    It's so odd and so frustrating to me because it changes special teams and it's so darn obvious. There's a 4-5mph wind (note the indicator for each user kick and the indicator when choosing a side in OT) in the game going at the kicking team on the opening kickoff, and the kickoff reaches about the 5 yard line. At the next kickoff (in the 2nd quarter), there is also the same wind going at the Denver kicked, and the ball reaches about the 5 yard line. But then at the opening kickoff of the 2nd half, with the wind at the Denver kicker's back, the ball is kicked through 9.5 yards deep in the endzone.
    Kicking against the wind (~3-5 yard line):

    Kicking with the wind (-9.5 yards in the endzone):

    4th quarter kicking against the wind (~3-5 yard line):

    Overtime, kicking with the wind, 4mph (-12 yards deep in the endzone)

    It's just something that has been such a prominent glitch/bug/error/miscalculation in the game FOR SO LONG, going easily over 5 years now. Last year, it totally broke the special teams logic when the game first came out... Remember those sky-high CPU punts that would onyl go about 10 yards, and either be a fumble or fair catch if you were lucky enough to trigger it? Or 80 yard punts if the CPU had the wind at their back? Why does the wind always blow with or against the teams? Why is there never cross wind or no wind? Is every stadium in the NFL designed in such a way to always have wind back or against the team? No, that's insane, and isn't how wind works. Should 4mph of wind result in a difference of 15 or 17 yards for the same kicker? No. It's just insane.
    Problem with these 3min videos is you don't get to see punting, but I'm sure it's more of the same. 80+ yard punts when you're kicking with the wind, and 20 yard punts when you're kicking against.
    And yet, 5+ years later, this bug is still massively affecting special teams. Remember the "Make SPecial Teams Special Again," the slogan before Madden '16 or '17? Welll... for the last 5 years you'd have to SuperSim special teams to get realistic punting and kicking results, and it's so frustrating that you still have to do that because it has such an unbalanced affect on the game.
    Beyond the wind issue, which has been present in MAdden for at least 5 years and something that really makes a profound affect on the game, is the issue that kickers just don't understand any strategy about kicking. Great kickers don't try to boom the kick through the endzone, they try to place the kick between 2 yards deep into the endzone up to about the 3-5 yard line. Back when the touchback rule was the 20, kickers boomed it through, but today, good, valuable kickers are those who place the ball in that zone where the return man is probably going to run it out, but probably not going to get a 27 yard return (E.g., the distance for a touchback). Of course, this is something that Madden is 10+ years away from replicating so I shouldn't expect it in Madden '19, but it's still just frustrating to see the same broken wind mechanics of years past.
    It's also probably a safe bet that franchise mode will be completely messed up by wind. In Franchise mode in years past, wind speeds would almost always be 8-12 mph in every game, in every outdoor stadium, and they'd always blow endzone-to-endzone, every time. It'd make special teams completely broken in franchise mode, and there was no way to just turn off the wind (Which would at least make the game more realistic). So, I'm expecting to the see the same again this year. It's a bug I've reported in the Bugs thread every year, making numerous threads/posts about it, and it just drives me batty that it's still present every year.
    With this being a final build, it looks like the knocked-knee'd lineman & tight ends approaching the line of scrimmage pre-play are a 'thing' this year.:y14: So whose idea was it to have Kenny The Jet Smith do the motion-cap for this? This never made an appearance in M25, M15, M16, M17 or M18. This ish looks stupid & goofy as hell.:jpshakehe
    iLLWiLL
    With this being a final build, it looks like the knocked-knee'd lineman & tight ends approaching the line of scrimmage pre-play are a 'thing' this year.:y14: So whose idea was it to have Kenny The Jet Smith do the motion-cap for this? This never made an appearance in M25, M15, M16, M17 or M18. This ish looks stupid & goofy as hell.:jpshakehe

    Yeah it doesn't look great, but I'm just glad they finally took away the robotic way everyone got set and moved towards the line. Bad news is it probably won't be touched again for a couple years.
    Most of it looks pretty good. I see a lot of improvements but I'm really worried about the CPU running game. It seemed to bit hit or miss last year. Maybe this can be helped with sliders.
    DaReal Milticket
    Nope, dont have the time or want to show that. Been playing Madden for ever. Thats all the data I need. Just trying to help the community. Feel free to provide that data though.

    To be fair this is one of the less 'wacky' slider theories around , and makes sense ,as this slider essentially replaced the RB ability slider Madden used to have ,
    I agree for what it's worth
    PVarck31
    Most of it looks pretty good. I see a lot of improvements but I'm really worried about the CPU running game. It seemed to bit hit or miss last year. Maybe this can be helped with sliders.

    Yep....sliders can help. But you don't want to stray too far with them. It causes all kinds of nonsense in other area's of the game.
    I am going to give All-Pro default a real go first. And evaluate from there. 16 and 18 I am playing pure All-Pro default and really enjoy my results. Gotta tell ya. Some things I sacrifice on 18 (penalties) but on 16 I sacrifice nothing. So well balanced 16.
    I hope 19 can have great balance on simulation mode. Soon enough we will start playing and testing hours on end after release.
    Right JoshC1977? LOL.
    It sucks that madden really doesn't meet my standards as a football game, but what sucks more is I know I will still buy it due to my love for video games and NFL football. All in all it looks like Madden so I can squeeze some type of fun out of it I just want more and the "there's always next year" excuse is so worn out.
    briz1046
    To be fair this is one of the less 'wacky' slider theories around , and makes sense ,as this slider essentially replaced the RB ability slider Madden used to have ,
    I agree for what it's worth

    Yeah, im not the only one thats been saying this for yrs. Give it a shot if needed.
    Therebelyell626
    Why on that touchdown is Emanuel sanders cutting when no one is around him instead of just running it straight in?

    This has been a problem throughout the M19 footage that has been, and it's been through pretty big beta testing, which makes me think this is something that they either can't fix because of RPM, or they haven't figured it out yet.
    It's really bad.
    cthurt
    It sucks that madden really doesn't meet my standards as a football game, but what sucks more is I know I will still buy it due to my love for video games and NFL football. All in all it looks like Madden so I can squeeze some type of fun out of it I just want more and the "there's always next year" excuse is so worn out.

    As I said in the "Buying or not" thread ... I am not a Madden fan, but a Madden hostage. I need my NFL videogame fix. And unfortunately will only give us one option.
    Therebelyell626
    Why on that touchdown is Emanuel sanders cutting when no one is around him instead of just running it straight in?

    RPM probably needs adjusting.
    iLLWiLL
    As I said in the "Buying or not" thread ... I am not a Madden fan, but a Madden hostage. I need my NFL videogame fix. And unfortunately will only give us one option.

    Lol well my friend we are tied up together then because I feel the exact way.
    SageInfinite
    Yeah it doesn't look great, but I'm just glad they finally took away the robotic way everyone got set and moved towards the line. Bad news is it probably won't be touched again for a couple years.

    I don't recall the robotic movements approaching the line of scrimmage in previous games. But I'd still take those over this goofy looking crap. I don't know what Tiburon was thinking.
    Otis1kanobe
    Still can’t adjust length of striped socks.

    Exactly which part of this video gave you proof of that ? Is it necessary to post this in every thread ?
    iLLWiLL
    As I said in the "Buying or not" thread ... I am not a Madden fan, but a Madden hostage. I need my NFL videogame fix. And unfortunately will only give us one option.

    Sounds to me like you're more of an addict than a hostage, lol.
    I agree with you even though I enjoy Madden, but nobody is a hostage over here, lol.
    PVarck31
    Most of it looks pretty good. I see a lot of improvements but I'm really worried about the CPU running game. It seemed to bit hit or miss last year. Maybe this can be helped with sliders.

    Cutting down Juke move and Spin moves greatly enhances the Running game, along with some slider tweaks. It will lower the Running Back overall ratings, but that's not a big deal for me.
    iLLWiLL
    I don't recall the robotic movements approaching the line of scrimmage in previous games. But I'd still take those over this goofy looking crap. I don't know what Tiburon was thinking.

    I gotta disagree. I'll take a more lifelike approach to the animations, even if they are a little goofy. I'm tired of seeing animations from a generation or two ago. I agree though the lineman walk looks a little goofy, but I like it better than what was.
    SageInfinite
    Sounds to me like you're more of an addict than a hostage, lol.
    I agree with you even though I enjoy Madden, but nobody is a hostage over here, lol.

    An addict for present-day NFL videogame football, not of Madden lol.
    That said, I realize I can't complain too much because I am supporting (buying) their product. But I will also be buying Axis Football and Maximum Football to support them as well. The APF2K8 NFL mod community is just dead.
    Lexicon
    This has been a problem throughout the M19 footage that has been, and it's been through pretty big beta testing, which makes me think this is something that they either can't fix because of RPM, or they haven't figured it out yet.
    It's really bad.

    Makes sense man. Not a huge deal but a bit of an immersion breaker. If I catch the AI before he can cross the goal line because of that I am going to feel like the cpu got robbed
    Lexicon
    This has been a problem throughout the M19 footage that has been, and it's been through pretty big beta testing, which makes me think this is something that they either can't fix because of RPM, or they haven't figured it out yet.
    It's really bad.

    I asked the question in the developer question thread(Clint interview) and let's hope there is some adjustments for the day 1 title update.
    Therebelyell626
    Makes sense man. Not a huge deal but a bit of an immersion breaker. If I catch the AI before he can cross the goal line because of that I am going to feel like the cpu got robbed

    Trust me, it's going to make a lot of people upset, because it doesn't just happen in that situation. It happens on a lot of CPU running plays (see the first run of this game), screens, etc. Doesn't happen all the time, but it happens enough to make it feel cheap.
    Maybe there will be a way to fix it with sliders, but it's a pretty big issue.
    I hope RPM is really worked on and expanded.
    I'm tired of seeing players in the secondary standing flat footed. We need more subtle and transitional animations. Line men still spazzing out not knowing who to block on screen plays.
    If they could just get the movement right ALL OVER THE FIELD, not just ball carriers. The twitchy **** just kills it for me at times.
    SageInfinite
    I gotta disagree. I'll take a more lifelike approach to the animations, even if they are a little goofy. I'm tired of seeing animations from a generation or two ago. I agree though the lineman walk looks a little goofy, but I like it better than what was.

    After watching some M18 gameplay, I am just not seeing the robotic animations of players approaching the LoS.:y11:
    Lexicon
    Trust me, it's going to make a lot of people upset, because it doesn't just happen in that situation. It happens on a lot of CPU running plays (see the first run of this game), screens, etc. Doesn't happen all the time, but it happens enough to make it feel cheap.
    Maybe there will be a way to fix it with sliders, but it's a pretty big issue.

    Uh oh lol. Well let's hope they're working on it
    Def seems like the game is slowed down. Running backs approaching the line are not in full sprint until they get into the open field. This will take some time to adjust. Game speed is set to normal in the game but bumping it to fast speed with a higher speed parity might add some fluidity to the running game. It might help the CPU from making multiple cuts while running.
    iLLWiLL
    After watching some M18 gameplay, I am just not seeing the robotic animations of players approaching the LoS.:y11:

    Robotic, basic, stiff, idk, there was no variety to the way players got set. It didn't look natural. It was very uniform. How it is now looks more natural to me, even if a little goofy or "knock kneed". There's a variety there that wasn't there before. I just applaud the effort from Tiburon for trying to add the "little" things. Now the way they broke the huddle was much better in 18, IDK what happened there. The just sort of spin around now. That looks a mess now. Hopefully with refinement next year this stuff will ALL look better.
    l8knight1
    They changed the punter's animation a few years back also, after they implemented blocked kicks stuff. Punter motion now looks like a Radio City Rockette. That's in this video, too.

    Yeah the devs have got to stop doing the mo cap themselves, lmao.
    SageInfinite
    Robotic, basic, stiff, idk, there was no variety to the way players got set. It didn't look natural. It was very uniform. How it is now looks more natural to me, even if a little goofy or "knock kneed". There's a variety there that wasn't there before. I just applaud the effort from Tiburon for trying to add the "little" things. Now the way they broke the huddle was much better in 18, IDK what happened there. The just sort of spin around now. That looks a mess now. Hopefully with refinement next year this stuff will ALL look better.

    The problem that I am already seeing this year is the goofy knocked-knee'd animations is amplified because I am seeing an O-Tackle and a TE do it synchronized, in unison.:jpshakehe
    iLLWiLL
    The problem that I am already seeing this year is the goofy knocked-knee'd animations is amplified because I am seeing an O-Tackle and a TE do it synchronized, in unison.:jpshakehe

    Now the I definitely agree with. The approach is just lazy imo with alot of this stuff.
    I agree with y'all the RPM obviously has some issues...a couple gameplay vids have players cutting in open field reducing their RAC. Although, RPM, like Frostbite, I believe is quite a significant change on the coding side of things. So, very likely we will see a lot of the issues Madden 18 had with frostbite manifest itself with RPM in 19 as far as not being polished and quite buggy requiring fixes every patch that may ruin other parts (RPM) of the game. BUT, as with the transition to frostbite, it'll pay off in years to come. I do believe this year will have far less game breaking bugs like the stuck in mud glitch because of the second year of frostbite and the devs getting more familiar with the engine. So, this is a necessary evil working out the RPM weirdness (though I personally think the RPM brings a lot of realism to the game and outcomes regardless of the glitches) going forward. Just my few cents! I think 20 will really shine gameplay wise because of this...but hey I'm still new enough to be hopeful for the future with EA hahaha
    I know it's a sports game, so there's only so much they can do to sell the game each year, but from watching the vid, I feel that I can have a similar offline experience with madden 17. And I'm not saying they've done a bad job, but I've never liked this commentary team, or Coachman in general lol.
    Fist Of Kings
    I know it's a sports game, so there's only so much they can do to sell the game each year, but from watching the vid, I feel that I can have a similar offline experience with madden 17. And I'm not saying they've done a bad job, but I've never liked this commentary team, or Coachman in general lol.

    Hey, more power to you man. I think the game is best experienced as an every 2-3 yr buy but I'm just a football nut. I only buy 3-4 games a year so Madden inevitably makes it every year but personally if you can wait, I'd do it. Madden 17 is still a good game and offline remains an experience that relies on you to use your imagination to make it "great". And, I think coaching staffs are coming in 20 and that will be a significant upgrade in CFM that will finally warrant a buy that will make a difference in your experience.
    Sportsterssj
    Hey, more power to you man. I think the game is best experienced as an every 2-3 yr buy but I'm just a football nut. I only buy 3-4 games a year so Madden inevitably makes it every year but personally if you can wait, I'd do it. Madden 17 is still a good game and offline remains an experience that relies on you to use your imagination to make it "great". And, I think coaching staffs are coming in 20 and that will be a significant upgrade in CFM that will finally warrant a buy that will make a difference in your experience.

    I haven't been able to find a solid preorder deal, which is another factor. With my gamer's club membership, it will be $51 bucks, so I'm leaning towards picking the game up at black friday.
    Fist Of Kings
    I know it's a sports game, so there's only so much they can do to sell the game each year, but from watching the vid, I feel that I can have a similar offline experience with madden 17. And I'm not saying they've done a bad job, but I've never liked this commentary team, or Coachman in general lol.

    Yeah it's a no go on the Coach for me as well lol. It's not that he's even that bad, I just can't take him serious after he got punk'Ed by the rock all those years ago. I wonder if Dwayne knows how that has hung over his head all these years
    Fist Of Kings
    I haven't been able to find a solid preorder deal, which is another factor. With my gamer's club membership, it will be $51 bucks, so I'm leaning towards picking the game up at black friday.

    25 bucks for mine
    ok this says final build....and it has the team lineup up with all the players holdings footballs....Which just looks awful. I thought this was something they would have fixed by launch....
    And I got my hopes up because I saw a vid yesterday where everything looked normal with them here

    but then this vid comes out and I don't know whats going on with those....will it just randomly screw up the lineups???Is it a specific Build??? And will it be fixed with the day 1 patch I wonder???
    Fist Of Kings
    I haven't been able to find a solid preorder deal, which is another factor. With my gamer's club membership, it will be $51 bucks, so I'm leaning towards picking the game up at black friday.

    Hey, I plan on building a computer this fall so I most definitely hope to pick up the game at discount down the road. The game isn't worth the $60 yearly to me, and I think this year was a pretty solid improvement compared to 18 with gameplay and franchise. The reality is as an offline guy, there's no reason to get it at release. All you get is more time to play for MUT so you don't fall behind. With franchise you actually get a game that isn't broken at release...as bad as that sounds generally we all know Madden doesn't shine until February after its final patch. Hell, A&S, one of the OGs, wouldn't even touch 18 until after that point and then he conceded that 18 was a pretty decent game...and I agreed, it generally takes the EA team awhile to get the game to where we would expect it at release.
    Plus, with in game audibles last year I think this year we can expect another mid year feature to be added so if you can wait, definitely wait.
    Sportsterssj
    Hey, I plan on building a computer this fall so I most definitely hope to pick up the game at discount down the road. The game isn't worth the $60 yearly to me, and I think this year was a pretty solid improvement compared to 18 with gameplay and franchise. The reality is as an offline guy, there's no reason to get it at release. All you get is more time to play for MUT so you don't fall behind. With franchise you actually get a game that isn't broken at release...as bad as that sounds generally we all know Madden doesn't shine until February after its final patch. Hell, A&S, one of the OGs, wouldn't even touch 18 until after that point and then he conceded that 18 was a pretty decent game...and I agreed, it generally takes the EA team awhile to get the game to where we would expect it at release.
    Plus, with in game audibles last year I think this year we can expect another mid year feature to be added so if you can wait, definitely wait.

    Can’t disagree. 18 took till February to be a really solid and fun game for offline franchise players.
    I am helping with classic rosters this cycle and want to test everything.
    But if you are patient you can wait till Black Friday and save some coin if you are tight with cash.
    There is no right or wrong.
    I may actually play sone offline MUT with Dan Marino (ha ha) and play season 2 of Longshot.
    Its all good.
    After playing the beta I felt a lot better.
    I will leave it at that.
    Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports
    SteelerSpartan
    ok this says final build....and it has the team lineup up with all the players holdings footballs....Which just looks awful. I thought this was something they would have fixed by launch....
    And I got my hopes up because I saw a vid yesterday where everything looked normal with them here

    but then this vid comes out and I don't know whats going on with those....will it just randomly screw up the lineups???Is it a specific Build??? And will it be fixed with the day 1 patch I wonder???

    The thing with the players all holding footballs isn't a bug, if that's what you mean. That's a design decision they made, and I agree that it looks awful. Disturbing, even.
    Lexicon
    The thing with the players all holding footballs isn't a bug, if that's what you mean. That's a design decision they made, and I agree that it looks awful. Disturbing, even.

    Yeah sometimes they show them holding the footballs, then sometimes they don't. I like the variety, but I've never liked the way they chose to show the lineups. I think the whole thing should be scrapped in favor of something more true to life and less video gamey.
    horrormaster
    Receivers were open nearly all, if not 100% of the time on drag routes over the middle for easy gains. Could literally just spam that all game and blow out the AI with ease.

    Ughh it was disgusting. He literally only completed drags and deep crossing routes.
    I don't care one way or the other for the intros. They aren't what we see every Sunday, but I am glad we have something in there that is somewhat personal. Seeing the actual player model is better than nothing. I think it'd fit NCAA better for some reason.
    pimpycraig
    Ughh it was disgusting. He literally only completed drags and deep crossing routes.

    Played on competitive, it doesn't play like that on Sim mode.
    solmon
    How DOES it play on sim?

    As I mentioned before, I will be happy to discuss the beta version as soon as EA Access arrives and not sooner.
    You should be able to find a clue or two from other threads.
    DaReal Milticket
    Always loved the zoom camera. Feels like the week before Christmas.

    I wish they could bring back the zoom cam from Madden 25(this gen) as an option. I loved that cam.
    Nitpicking here, but I'm hoping situational awareness continues to be improved in the commentary. Specifically, on the completion before the game-tying FG. Six seconds on the clock, LA completes a pass to get into FG range leaving two seconds on the clock. Here's the call...
    "And he is out of bounds just a yard or two shy of the thirty! It's a pickup of twelve, and that'll setup a third down."
    He's calling it like it's the middle of the 2nd quarter. The spot and the down isn't the story at this point; it's all about how LA just managed to get into FG range and have just enough time to try the kick. I know there is some situational dialogue in last second plays, but I'd like to see it expanded to cover some of the other critical plays as well.
    How can most of you guys enjoy this game? In my opinion it is almost the same as the previous game. Half time show is still a joke and where is the so-called interactivity with the punter? I'd also like to see if EA has managed to fix the animation of the onside kick. I'm very frustrated, I already tired of playing M18 and I expected at least a slightly different game but from what I see I will have to wait another year.
    packers96
    How can most of you guys enjoy this game? In my opinion it is almost the same as the previous game. Half time show is still a joke and where is the so-called interactivity with the punter? I'd also like to see if EA has managed to fix the animation of the onside kick. I'm very frustrated, I already tired of playing M18 and I expected at least a slightly different game but from what I see I will have to wait another year.

    Well most people just like the game of Madden, so if not too much changes, they're probably gonna like each edition. I totally feel your frustration, but people like what they like. Most want to play an NFL game, and this is all we have. Like I said I enjoy the game, but I'll never say it's good until I actually believe it's good. Me enjoying it doesn't mean it's good, lol.
    SageInfinite
    I wish they could bring back the zoom cam from Madden 25(this gen) as an option. I loved that cam.

    Good call! Me as well. I mentioned that on twitter once with no reply. Like if there already were in the game why not make the accessible or just leave them in. I didnt get a response though.
    packers96
    How can most of you guys enjoy this game? In my opinion it is almost the same as the previous game. Half time show is still a joke and where is the so-called interactivity with the punter? I'd also like to see if EA has managed to fix the animation of the onside kick. I'm very frustrated, I already tired of playing M18 and I expected at least a slightly different game but from what I see I will have to wait another year.

    By watching the videos, I dont think it gives 19 justice at all of the RPM. I mean when I watch NBA2K18 vids & The Show they looked exactly the same as the yr before & felt the same when I played them. NBA2k's haftime show is like 2 minutes & its nothing to write home about. Their halftime show is pretty empty if u ask me.The Show is a great game, but felt like a roster update to me. What does the Show do show scores arounf the league? I guess my pt is no sports game has a solid halftime show or wrap up show out today. Unless im wrong no know is doing highlights from around the league.
    Simple, different strokes for different folks man.
    I like the additions of RPM to the game, draft customizations, smarter AI CPU playcalling, the new halftime improvement is better that no halftime improvement, push the pile, more celebrations, reading running holes and bouncing off of someone from the OL, better zone coverages which will help with man to man coverage, etc......
    I don't care if someone purchases Madden, waits for a blue light special or boycotts again, but I sure heck don't ask folks why they aren't purchasing Madden.
    To each their own.
    Edit- Sage, I chuckled, thanks.
    Other Guy
    Nitpicking here, but I'm hoping situational awareness continues to be improved in the commentary. Specifically, on the completion before the game-tying FG. Six seconds on the clock, LA completes a pass to get into FG range leaving two seconds on the clock. Here's the call...
    "And he is out of bounds just a yard or two shy of the thirty! It's a pickup of twelve, and that'll setup a third down."
    He's calling it like it's the middle of the 2nd quarter. The spot and the down isn't the story at this point; it's all about how LA just managed to get into FG range and have just enough time to try the kick. I know there is some situational dialogue in last second plays, but I'd like to see it expanded to cover some of the other critical plays as well.

    I wish they could get the AI to go out of bounds in situations that made sense and avoid it in scenarios where they want the clock to keep running. That is honestly probably my biggest issue with the gameplay side of the series at this point.
    I was going to post some general opinions on the video in the OP, standard fare like saw some good, saw some bad, the untapped potential is frustrating, etc, then I saw this, shout out or shout at to Sageinfinite.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkXBhrnchdQ
    This is Madden 19 and normally the type of "play" that isn't seen until post release but here it is early. This video exemplifies why the bs about people just hating on Madden to hate and whatever other mess insecure people tell themselves to cope with where football gaming is after all these years, is undermined by the game itself, year over year.
    roadman
    Simple, different strokes for different folks man.
    I like the additions of RPM to the game, draft customizations, smarter AI CPU playcalling, the new halftime improvement is better that no halftime improvement, push the pile, more celebrations, reading running holes and bouncing off of someone from the OL, better zone coverages which will help with man to man coverage, etc......
    I don't care if someone purchases Madden, waits for a blue light special or boycotts again, but I sure heck don't ask folks why they aren't purchasing Madden.
    To each their own.
    Edit- Sage, I chuckled, thanks.

    Agreed, if someone doesn't think these are improvements or make the game feel different I dont really know what to say. I guess try Axis, CFL football, or keep playing the ancients. Doesnt matter to me what someone likes. dislikes, buys, doesnt buy etc...play what gives you enjoyment.
    I'm a big Madden critic myself and haven't bought one since Madden 16, but I don't think posting videos like that does anything, but put the Comp mode and players in a bad light, not the entire game as a whole. Comp lets you get away with all sorts of BS and is an awful way to play the game in my opinion. For users like me, players who play 99% of their games against the CPU, Madden has made some strides. I wish I could give more impressions from the beta, but I can't.
    Watching that video, 1 of the many things that bothered me was the new QB audible animations.
    There were a couple times, mid animation with 1 arm in the air, the QB is signaling and the ball is snapped. There should be a penalty for not letting the animation play out at least on sim mode. Anytime this happens in the NFL, it results in a fumble. This should be in the game. Frustrating when they add stuff like this for realism, and don't consider realism as a whole.
    SageInfinite
    Watching that video, 1 of the many things that bothered me was the new QB audible animations.
    There were a couple times, mid animation with 1 arm in the air, the QB is signaling and the ball is snapped. There should be a penalty for not letting the animation play out at least on sim mode. Anytime this happens in the NFL, it results in a fumble. This should be in the game. Frustrating when they add stuff like this for realism, and don't consider realism as a whole.

    Would be a great addition for Sim.
    I agree Canes, I turned that video off very quickly for a few reasons;
    1. I had a whole year without hearing that voice, now those dreams will come back again. lol
    2. I don't play that garbage way.
    Big FN Deal
    I was going to post some general opinions on the video in the OP, standard fare like saw some good, saw some bad, the untapped potential is frustrating, etc, then I saw this, shout out or shout at to Sageinfinite.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkXBhrnchdQ
    This is Madden 19 and normally the type of "play" that isn't seen until post release but here it is early. This video exemplifies why the bs about people just hating on Madden to hate and whatever other mess insecure people tell themselves to cope with where football gaming is after all these years, is undermined by the game itself, year over year.

    I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying people who like Madden are insecure and have to convince themselves to like it in some way because there is no way they could actually like the game?
    Or are you saying people who say others hate on Madden just to hate are insecure and that helps them cope with a game they are trying to convince themselves they like it even though they know it sucks?
    Or is it both? Or am I off completely?
    PVarck31
    I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying people who like Madden are insecure and have to convince themselves to like it in some way because there is no way they could actually like the game?
    Or are you saying people who say others hate on Madden just to hate are insecure and that helps them cope with a game they are trying to convince themselves they like it even though they know it sucks?
    Or is it both? Or am I off completely?

    No idea what he was saying either.
    iLLWiLL
    No idea what he was saying either.

    Not to speak for him but, I think he's basically saying nobody hates on Madden just to hate. Videos like this is why people criticize madden and say it looks and plays the same. No matter all the changes and new gameplay features, you can still play it like this and be successful, and every year people try to act like that won't be the case.
    Now I agree, I don't play like this, so it's whatever to me, doesn't stop my enjoyment, but the biggest feature(RPM), is in this video. It's Madden 19, and it still looks exactly like the Madden ball we've all either love, or love to hate. It is what it is, as I keep saying, I'm looking forward to getting more time with the game.
    roadman
    2 player tackle on the opening KO?
    Wow.

    Lol. Did u notice who the 2nd tackler was? The kicker. Lol
    I’ve seen this happening A LOT on some recent videos of M19. I think this was sort of a problem in M18 (and/or prior maddens, in general) but it’s not necessarily a game killer. But, I’ve seen a lot of kickoffs where, specifically, if the return man stays in the middle of the field, the kicker tends to make the tackle. I can imagine this could be a tough fix in that they really need to make the kicker hang back a little more on the kickoff so he’s not normally involved in the tackle. But, I think because madden has always struggled a little with blocking concepts specific to kickoffs, that the kicker runs down the field like any other player, too many players get blocked long enough for the return man to get to the kicker and then the kicker makes the tackle.
    It’s a bit of an immersion beaker when it happens too often, u know? When I’m playing, I always notice when the kicker makes a tackle in the middle of the field because this almost never happens.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    SageInfinite
    Not to speak for him but, I think he's basically saying nobody hates on Madden just to hate. Videos like this is why people criticize madden and say it looks and plays the same. No matter all the changes and new gameplay features, you can still play it like this and be successful, and every year people try to act like that won't be the case.
    Now I agree, I don't play like this, so it's whatever to me, doesn't stop my enjoyment, but the biggest feature(RPM), is in this video. It's Madden 19, and it still looks exactly like the Madden ball we've all either love, or love to hate. It is what it is, as I keep saying, I'm looking forward to getting more time with the game.

    If that's what he meant then I understand where he's coming from in the aspect of people spamming certain plays and how the ability to do that doesn't ever seem to be fixed year over year.
    But I don't think people who genuinely enjoy the game are insecure and try to convince themselves to like it.
    I didn't watch the whole video because I just don't have time, but it was being played on Competitive and this stuff happens in that mode and that's how those people like to play it. So I think it's a little unfair to bunch any Sim mode players into that post because most don't play like that.
    And with coverage's being improved you won't be seeing plays like that done so easily.
    SageInfinite
    Not to speak for him but, I think he's basically saying nobody hates on Madden just to hate. Videos like this is why people criticize madden and say it looks and plays the same. No matter all the changes and new gameplay features, you can still play it like this and be successful, and every year people try to act like that won't be the case.
    Now I agree, I don't play like this, so it's whatever to me, doesn't stop my enjoyment, but the biggest feature(RPM), is in this video. It's Madden 19, and it still looks exactly like the Madden ball we've all either love, or love to hate. It is what it is, as I keep saying, I'm looking forward to getting more time with the game.

    To be fair, for me I can look at any sports game out there from videos like this one. Be it NBA2k & The Show, golf, Nascar, Fifa to me those games have looked the same for yrs in the videos. I can see what people are saying, it might not look different. I mean how much different is a game of football going to look? Madden is always going to look like madden in some shape or form. If people think Madden is going to reinvent the wheel, I think they're going to be disappointed for many of yrs to come. Ppl have reasons to not like the game but I think there is many reasons to like the game. I dont think anyone is insecure for liking the game, there is legit reasons ( I have many pros over cons). I think its easier to talk yourself into not liking the game. There is always going to be yeah thats nice, but they need this or that. I read it everyday.. I think its human nature not to be satisfied & the want is endless.
    I don't care if Madden always looks the same because graphically it's one of the best looking games out there. But I will agree to an extent that it plays the same or at least similar. There are always incremental updates and I feel like it has been trending positively gameplay wise over the last few years, but never makes that leap.
    I'm hoping that RPM is that big change this game has sorely needed. I'm not saying that it's gonna completely change the game this year. But does seem to be a very positive change from what we know and can see at this point.
    IF EA just sticks with it and improves it each year then I believe it can be a true game changer.
    DaReal Milticket
    To be fair, for me I can look at any sports game out there from videos like this one. Be it NBA2k & The Show, golf, Nascar, Fifa to me those games have looked the same for yrs in the videos. I can see what people are saying, it might not look different. I mean how much different is a game of football going to look? Madden is always going to look like madden in some shape or form. If people think Madden is going to reinvent the wheel, I think they're going to be disappointed for many of yrs to come. Ppl have reasons to not like the game but I think there is many reasons to like the game. I dont think anyone is insecure for liking the game, there is legit reasons ( I have many pros over cons). I think its easier to talk yourself into not liking the game. There is always going to be yeah thats nice, but they need this or that. I read it everyday.. I think its human nature not to be satisfied & the want is endless.

    Some of this I just can't agree with as someone who notices the intricacies and details of the sports and sports video games. Of course some videos make games look better or worse than others, but I can usually point out or notice differences from the prior year. I can tell the difference between Live and 2k, Madden and 2k. The sport is the sport, but the way it can be emulated is the difference. Madden has had some of the same animations in the game since the beginning of last gen. I personally am tired of that and it's pretty sad.
    I can guarantee if Madden came out with RPM and it totally did change this game this year people would notice it off the bat and some of the talk about needing to play it or feel it wouldn't be as prominent.
    I don't think reasonable people are asking them to reinvent the wheel, just clean up and polish the one you have. It's just a sloppy looking and playing game at times, no matter who is on the sticks.
    PVarck31

    But I don't think people who genuinely enjoy the game are insecure and try to convince themselves to like it.
    I didn't watch the whole video because I just don't have time, but it was being played on Competitive and this stuff happens in that mode and that's how those people like to play it. So I think it's a little unfair to bunch any Sim mode players into that post because most don't play like that.
    And with coverage's being improved you won't be seeing plays like that done so easily.

    I personally don't think his post said anything about people being insecure about liking the game. Anybody is free to like what they want. It was more about the state of football gaming, which is Madden. We do have separate modes now, which was definitely a step in the right direction, but some of that same crap does see it's way into sim because it's just entrenched in the game. I can't debate someone who enjoys or likes the game, but I can debate the realism or quality that they claim is in the game. I think that's the disconnect.
    SageInfinite
    Some of this I just can't agree with as someone who notices the intricacies and details of the sports and sports video games. Of course some videos makes games look better or worse than others, but I can usually point out or notice differences from the prior year. I can tell the difference between Live and 2k, Madden and 2k. The sport is the sport, but the way it can be emulated is the difference. Madden has had some of the same animations in the game since the beginning of last gen. I personally am tired of that and it's pretty sad.
    I can guarantee if Madden came out with RPM and it totally did change this game this year people would notice it off the bat and some of the talk about needing to play it or feel it wouldn't be as prominent.
    I don't think reasonable people are asking them to reinvent the wheel, just clean up and polish the one you have. It's just a sloppy looking and playing game at times, no matter who is on the sticks.

    From what see and have played in the Beta, they are/have polished aspects of game with what they’ve included.
    Problem is, if it’s one thing that’s been cleaned up and improved, it’s not enough.
    If it’s 5 things that’s been cleaned up and improved, it’s not enough.
    It will always be looking for the next item the individual has an issue with, that the things that have been cleaned up and improved, are simply linked back in with other issues they perceive the game to have, that they never really get a chance to experience the cleaned up and improved aspects.
    You’ll never be able to see the change if the picture in your thoughts is already finalized before the picture is even taken.
    khaliib
    From what see and have played in the Beta, they are/have polished aspects of game with what they’ve included.
    Problem is, if it’s one thing that’s been cleaned up and improved, it’s not enough.
    If it’s 5 things that’s been cleaned up and improved, it’s not enough.
    It will always be looking for the next item the individual has an issue with, that the things that have been cleaned up and improved, are simply linked back in with other issues they perceive the game to have, that they never really get a chance to experience the cleaned up and improved aspects.
    You’ll never be able to see the change if the picture in your thoughts is already finalized before the picture is even taken.

    Well we can't discuss the beta so, whatever has been cleaned or polished can't be debated.
    Personally for me it would be enough if I actually thought these things were WHOLE improvements instead of small pieces. It's hard to say it's enough when you're so far behind. The way they work on things just doesn't makes sense to me at times, and often the big picture isn't fully realized because they don't always build year to year. Also in the past when individuals have come back with glowing impressions, the ol switcheroo was pulled. Even you can attest to that.
    As I've said time and time again, I enjoy Madden, I like the game, I've played 17 and 18 ALOT. I think the game is improving year to year in some aspects. At the same time though, I can be real about it not being a good realistic football game. It probably never will be. I'm ok with that. I have to be, lol.
    Basically imo there are two groups of people when it comes to Madden.
    There are those who play it and enjoy it for what it is.
    And there are those who hate it and don't play it for what it's not.
    And I don't feel like this gap will ever come together until the current overall game engine is either heavily modified of completely rebuilt. And I don't see that happening any time soon. I would bet on them once again porting Madden as it is now onto the next generation of hardware.
    So basically we will continue to get slow and steady improvements, but may never see the true legacy issues completely fixed.
    At some point I can see the game being completely overhauled because it will eventually become obsolete on it's current engine as we move through console generations. But unfortunately I don't see this happening until at least the generation after the next one.
    So basically at this point we either need to accept the game for what it is, or just say screw it if you can't enjoy the game. EA is not in the business of wholesale changes. We all know that. So the game some people really want isn't coming anytime soon.
    For those commenting on the halftime show, this is the abbreviated halftime show I think because it’s on competitive. We know there is a more detailed halftime show in cfm so maybe they decided to only have it on simulation mode, idk that for a fact but it would make sense because most arcade/competitive(tournament) players are buttoning through everything already. I’m holding out judgement until we see the full halftime show in cfm.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    SageInfinite
    Well we can't discuss the beta so, whatever has been cleaned or polished can't be debated.
    Personally for me it would be enough if I actually thought these things were WHOLE improvements instead of small pieces. It's hard to say it's enough when you're so far behind. The way they work on things just doesn't makes sense to me at times, and often the big picture isn't fully realized because they don't always build year to year. Also in the past when individuals have come back with glowing impressions, the ol switcheroo was pulled. Even you can attest to that.
    As I've said time and time again, I enjoy Madden, I like the game, I've played 17 and 18 ALOT. I think the game is improving year to year in some aspects. At the same time though, I can be real about it not being a good realistic football game. It probably never will be. I'm ok with that. I have to be, lol.

    Yes sir...
    After EA Play, that pre-release Tuning kick to the enchiladas was lasting. lol
    The video didn't do much for me, as the biggest glaring issues with the game for me remain untouched, the line play when it comes to pass blocking and pass rushing and QB movement and throwing animations, these two areas of the game are an eyesore and bothersome to me.
    SageInfinite
    I wish they could bring back the zoom cam from Madden 25(this gen) as an option. I loved that cam.

    I don't understand why they refuse to add more camera angle options and user defined cameras. Every other major sports title has better camera options than Madden.
    DaReal Milticket
    To be fair, for me I can look at any sports game out there from videos like this one. Be it NBA2k & The Show, golf, Nascar, Fifa to me those games have looked the same for yrs in the videos. I can see what people are saying, it might not look different. I mean how much different is a game of football going to look? Madden is always going to look like madden in some shape or form. If people think Madden is going to reinvent the wheel, I think they're going to be disappointed for many of yrs to come. Ppl have reasons to not like the game but I think there is many reasons to like the game. I dont think anyone is insecure for liking the game, there is legit reasons ( I have many pros over cons). I think its easier to talk yourself into not liking the game. There is always going to be yeah thats nice, but they need this or that. I read it everyday.. I think its human nature not to be satisfied & the want is endless.

    Those other games replicate their respective sport way more accurate than Madden especially when it comes to player movement. Madden is years behind those games when it comes to the total package (gameplay, animations, movement, presentation, modes, features, options, customization). I'm ok with game looking the same every year if it looks like the sport does irl, the player movement in Madden is horrendous the pass blocking and pass rushing doesn't even remotely represent real football. Madden is many years behind other sports games when it comes to depth, no need to makes excuses for the game.
    Americas Team
    Those other games replicate their respective sport way more accurate than Madden especially when it comes to player movement. Madden is years behind those games when it comes to the total package (gameplay, animations, movement, presentation, modes, features, options, customization). I'm ok with game looking the same every year if it looks like the sport does irl, the player movement in Madden is horrendous the pass blocking and pass rushing doesn't even remotely represent real football. Madden is many years behind other sports games when it comes to depth, no need to makes excuses for the game.

    Lmao, thanks for your opinions.
    My point to the video that Big put up was that was on a mode that showcases that kind of play that people compete for hundreds of thousands of dollars.(Win at all cost and abuse the game)
    I can play similar to that on rookie modes of games and I'm not going to get into a tiki tac of oh, but this game plays so much more realistic than the game you enjoy on that mode or vice versa.
    I totally agree with Pvark, Sage and I like to use that history is a good predictor of the future.
    All of us are aware how the game is made, it's improved incrementally, and we've been told that isn't going to change and history also tells us that.
    I don't know if the prevailing attitudes of some(not saying anyone specifically) I hope one year a developer listens to me because they aren't as realistic as the other sports games, etc..... Again, history dictates how this will play out and it's been proven how EA will make the game.
    The issue that bothers me some is that people that defend the game for what it is and they enjoy it are called out as, do you work for EA(yeah, real good, haven't heard that one before), a defender of the game or stop making excuses for them. The same goes on the other side as well. Stop hating the game or get off your Madden agenda, etc......
    There will be a divide in the room, whatever you want to call it, but just respect the other person's opinion, leave your opinion and move on. There is no need going as far as stop making excuses, stop hating the game, how about that's a good opinion, but I don't agree and here's why.
    I was apart of the beta testing and I had 16 pages of notes I passed along to the appropriate channels. People may feel that I defend the game a lot, but there is no way the game couldn't improve much more. Those 16 pages of note taking was from game play and CFM and I could only hope some of the things I mentioned will be worked on or tweaked, we will see.
    I respect the hell out of Sage(Sorry I am getting mushy Sage) even though we might disagree on some things from time to time. He sees the game more intricately then I do. For instance animations and movement. It appears I may need to back off on my statement of RPM being a game changer until they right the ship better with RPM. For the beta, I would look at a play, if something didn't look right, I hit replay numerous times like in the coaches room and find out why this looked weird. Also, I may see things that Sage might not notice or things he isn't looking for.
    I have noticed that simballnation for 2k is trying to carry the torch and go outside the forums, onto social media and try to get their point across vs the direction the game seems to be going towards. We tried that successfully over here with Madden last year and it can be done. I hit up the play designer on Twitter, asked why there was shot plays and draw from the CPU on 3rd and longs and he said they were looking into it. There was a bug preventing the CPU from calling the proper calls on 3rd and longs.
    My final point is that try to remember there shouldn't be any finger pointing in either direction, like stop hating Madden, stop making excuses for them, etc.... what good does that do? Makes you feel better, great. Just respect each others opinions, if someone feels the game is lacking behind the others, let it be, if someone defends the game, let it be.
    There will be an answer.................
    Lol. Here's an example...... I respect your position AT, that Madden's player movement looks horrendous, but I feel with RPM implemented, it will only improve and get better from here on out. So, no, I don't feel that Madden's player movement is in the horrendous category currently, needs improvement, sure.
    PS- Don't try to quote this long diatribe either. lol
    Americas Team
    I don't understand why they refuse to add more camera angle options and user defined cameras. Every other major sports title has better camera options than Madden.

    I'll tell you why. Because its hard to do and the people above probably see no reason to spend time on that when they could be doing something more "flashy" . They have this short dev cycle, so they need to put in smaller things thats not as hard to do , to add to their list of what they added.
    Like the music they are going to update thruout the year this year..... wow thats " major" .........Adding song files to a game. Im not a dev , but i can bet this is not that much work. I can add a music file myself to many things right now and im not a dev.
    Custom camera angle is something I have wanted for so long myself, but I have given up hope of ever seeing it. Its just a shame this game has been being made for 29 years this year ..... and this is what we have on the most powerful consoles to date, being made by a company with this large a bank account .
    packers96
    How can most of you guys enjoy this game? In my opinion it is almost the same as the previous game. Half time show is still a joke and where is the so-called interactivity with the punter? I'd also like to see if EA has managed to fix the animation of the onside kick. I'm very frustrated, I already tired of playing M18 and I expected at least a slightly different game but from what I see I will have to wait another year.

    It's hard. Madden has relied on the popularity of the NFL to carry this game for over a decade. It is a business decision and business decisions do not benefit customers without competition. If your a football fanatic it is what you get.
    I have preordered Madden for longer than the last ten years. Not this year and i am not doing ea access either. I plan to redbox it for a weekend, turn it in, wait a couple of days and see if i am feigning to play. If i am i will buy, if not i will wait for black friday. They do have the advantage that it comes out before the big games i am excited about like fallout76 and red dead redemption 2. The sport gaming industry has not pushed the envelope for a long time. I used to spend 90% of my game time on sports, now maybe 20%.
    They need a big investment in ai to make madden great and probably to write all the code from scratch. Football manager may be the game going forward to get a franchise fix. If i could import game stats from madden into that i would be estatic.
    timhere1970
    It's hard. Madden has relied on the popularity of the NFL to carry this game for over a decade. It is a business decision and business decisions do not benefit customers without competition. If your a football fanatic it is what you get.
    I have preordered Madden for longer than the last ten years. Not this year and i am not doing ea access either. I plan to redbox it for a weekend, turn it in, wait a couple of days and see if i am feigning to play. If i am i will buy, if not i will wait for black friday. They do have the advantage that it comes out before the big games i am excited about like fallout76 and red dead redemption 2. The sport gaming industry has not pushed the envelope for a long time. I used to spend 90% of my game time on sports, now maybe 20%.
    They need a big investment in ai to make madden great and probably to write all the code from scratch. Football manager may be the game going forward to get a franchise fix. If i could import game stats from madden into that i would be estatic.

    This is very true. One of the reasons i will be buying the "other" two football games coming out on console this year. I know, i know , they are not competing with madden ( for now) . But Im happy to give someone else some of my money because they show they are trying to make what people are asking for . Some will say ,but a small dev company can not compete with EA.
    Not with an attitude like that no. However I will point out The Golf Club They have created a very good golf simulation game . Now of course EA kind of bowed out of the golf game, but I play the past EA golf games and i like The Golf Club better. They just did a better job imo. They did it , by people supporting them as they built the game up. It has a ton of options. And now after years of being in development and a couple of releases, they now have aquired the PGA License. So it can be done . I know , they used to make Tiger Woods Golf for EA . However, they went out on their own way when EA stopped making it in 2014 .
    My point is , it CAN be done, but people have got to be willing to support these people until they get to that point. We know what EA is going to continue to do ( just look at history) and what they are going to focus on going forward, no point in kidding ourselves.
    You mentions a few other games coming out this fall ( im looking forward to as well). I recall Rex talking last year about how EA wanted to keep people engaged longer since more people are playing fewer games overall now , but the ones they play they play longer . So EA wants to "compete" in that realm. They see CFM as, if your playing it year round or half a year, they already have you doing what they want. So they focus their energy on MUT , because its easier to update and keep things "fresh" with new cards . And that keeps more of those none CFM people engaged longer.
    What gets me is , the games you mentioned have been in dev for 5-7 years. While i get that makes a difference. If we look at madden from 7 years ago ( madden 12) - my question is , has it really improved along the same quality amount as these sequels will have ? I honestly do not think so ( and ive not even really seen these two games in action much yet, but i know what their companies bring to the table with their games ).And that is what i think bothers most who take issues with Madden. Its not that it does not improve some. Its that when you think of how long its been being made, the amount of money EA profits from it yearly , and how powerful these consoles are over ps2, its really really really hard to accept this mediocre product .Of course it stems from no competition , which takes me back to my original point and why i will support those other games . Until we get some kind of competition to take away football game sales, EA is not changing a thing.
    I like to think those other football games are responsible for driving Madden back to PC. I don't play on PC but i know a lot of people do and not making a PC version was definately a screw the customer because we don't have no competition move. Glad it's back. Good job on that EA!
    PVarck31
    Basically imo there are two groups of people when it comes to Madden.
    There are those who play it and enjoy it for what it is.
    And there are those who hate it and don't play it for what it's not.
    And I don't feel like this gap will ever come together until the current overall game engine is either heavily modified of completely rebuilt.

    This maybe true for gameplay, but not for a franchise mode. The realism of the franchise mode should not be held back BECAUSE of limitations in current gameplay engine. The unrealistic franchise is a design choice. So I'm not sure I have much confidence in EA/Tib CHOOSING a more realistic gameplay. They seem to gravitate toward arcade. Even looking at the excessive amount of big plays to accommodate shorter quarters.
    I think Sage and Big make good points on NOT debating what someone should or should not like. It's more discussing/debating the state of the game. Realistic vs Unrealistic. NFL vs Arcade. Me, I mainly discuss how unrealistic/gamey/arcady CFM (off field stuff) is and just how much I hate the current arcady abstractions EA/Tib has decided to go with over more realistic abstractions. That's my debate. For those more into gameplay, like Big and Sage, realism of gameplay is there debate.
    EDIT: As far as sim vs competitive mode, I haven't seem much difference between the two as far as gameplay itself goes. I see a lot of arcade type gameplay in the sim mode. It makes me question just how effective the modes actually are.
    My perspective on the game has changed over the years in terms of what I'm looking for from the game. As much as a sim experience would be cool, the game has to be fun to play first and foremost. I had fun playing M18 for the most part. This year I'll be trying MUT for the first time and they seem to have added some nice features to CFM (not ground breaking but solid).
    I can understand why people are upset with the game's progress and the only way to create change is to not buy the game.
    There is no use debating, at least from my end and perspective, that competitive mode and sim mode look and play the same.
    I played both last year and there isn't a comparison and if people wish to disagree with me, that's fine, I won't be posting more on that topic or this thread. You can make it as sim or competitive or arcade as you want. Options, Options and Options.
    More from me when EA Access drops or when the game drops.
    roadman
    There is no use debating, at least from my end and perspective, that competitive mode and sim mode look and play the same.
    I played both last year and there isn't a comparison and if people wish to disagree with me, that's fine, I won't be posting more on that topic or this thread. You can make it as sim or competitive or arcade as you want. Options, Options and Options.
    More from me when EA Access drops or when the game drops.

    Comp and Sim do play the same running, passing, tackling, etc., but Comp has fewer penalties, less fatigue, and fewer injuries. Especially since that final patch. This game is totally different since last patch. Default playbooks work way better than they did, default books are totally usable now. The game plays way better at default since the last patch as well.
    Comp was better before the last patch, you’d see penalties, but now even with penalties at 100, i’m not seeing penalties on Competetive Mode.
    PVarck31
    Basically imo there are two groups of people when it comes to Madden.
    There are those who play it and enjoy it for what it is.
    And there are those who hate it and don't play it for what it's not.

    And I don't feel like this gap will ever come together until the current overall game engine is either heavily modified of completely rebuilt. And I don't see that happening any time soon. I would bet on them once again porting Madden as it is now onto the next generation of hardware.
    So basically we will continue to get slow and steady improvements, but may never see the true legacy issues completely fixed.
    At some point I can see the game being completely overhauled because it will eventually become obsolete on it's current engine as we move through console generations. But unfortunately I don't see this happening until at least the generation after the next one.
    So basically at this point we either need to accept the game for what it is, or just say screw it if you can't enjoy the game. EA is not in the business of wholesale changes. We all know that. So the game some people really want isn't coming anytime soon.

    Good post here.
    Contrary to what some might believe, many of the people who are the biggest critics of Madden are more passionate about football gaming than anyone. I know a lot of guys like that. I think where the big rub comes in is that you have people constantly making excuses for the poor implementations, design and decision making involved with this game. Couple that with the 2 or 3 elements that they add to the game each release. It's insulting to the consumer because they are able to see what the other, more comprehensive sports franchises are doing from year to year. It's, for lack of a better word, embarrassing. The fact that anyone even thinks about playing 10+ year old football games over the current version of Madden is a big red flag. What's frustrating for the people who truly want a better product is that excuse making.
    "Oh it's a short cycle, football is hard, they can only do so much, it's an old build, it's on competitive, etc."
    Making these excuses instead of being honest about things that are blatantly low quality doesn't help anyone, including the development team. That being said, there is also the other side of it. For some (and it is a select few who are usually banned from here quickly) it's just a blind hate-fest. Those folks are to be ignored. When the Madden team does something good that should be recognized, but lying about things or coming up with false excuses just because you might WANT the game to be better doesn't help anything. No one WANTS to hate Madden. People just want a football simulation that measures up to what the other sports have. Hell, they want one that measures up to the old Madden and 2k games of years ago. The folks who keep playing the "nostalgia" or "agenda" card are the ones doing the real damage. It's not nostalgia. Folks are STILL playing these games. I'm one of them, and they are MUCH more comprehensive whether it is gameplay or Franchise mode. I have Madden 07 for the original xbox and the franchise mode is insanely good. It's much deeper than the current one. The gameplay is actually pretty similar too. The movement is much more fluid and there is very little warping and shifting. There's no denying that.
    Watching that gameplay vid was just disgusting IMO. Seeing Eli Manning roll out of the pocket and then pivot and throw across his body hitting a receiver in stride was laughable. It makes the game look like a 16 bit game with shiny graphics. Just because it was on competitive mode means nothing. The different modes don't affect the player movement. They don't affect very much actually, other than how well receivers catch the ball, interception frequency, fatigue and penalties.
    The game looks just like 18. I play a TON of madden games every year. I'm in an online CFM that has been running for years and we do 10 seasons a year so I know what 18 looked like (especially since I just played it 2 days ago). That video does not look much different. I also played the beta, and I went back and forth between the Beta and 18 just so I could get a feel for the difference.
    Year after year, seeing the exact same problems in the game gets old. Even when they say they fixed/added something, it rarely works. Who's to blame for that? I've heard it all - my favorite being "the suits". That may be the most annoying term ever. I have never been to Tiburon, but I can assure you that Andrew Wilson and his executive team are not standing over the shoulder of his programmers instructing them to write sloppy, buggy code that rarely works right. How about an example - this year they touted that "protect the sticks actually works". So basically, they admitted that it hasn't ever worked right? (which it didn't). In CFM, for 4 straight iterations, backup lineman who never played a down were making the pro bowl. They touted 300 new blocking animations in M25, but where are they? 300? Really? 5 iterations of the game later and we still have poor, binary line play. This year we were told that defenders can't make a play on the ball unless they see it. Ok, show us in a video log of that really working. They talked about the drop animations giving you the realistic context when a pass is dropped. I haven't seen it (someone please point it out to me because I thought that would be a good add). All the while, there are still no offsetting penalties, the challenge system is a disgrace, pass trajectories still have issues, the ball is hard wired to the players with wonky ball physics that often go haywire, etc. At some point, you have to wonder what's going on there. People here know that nothing is going to change. EA/Tiburon are not suddenly going to "Get it". It's just a place to voice/vent with people who want the same thing - a realistic, challenging football simulation game.
    At the end of the day, the "butting of heads" is still going to happen because people want different things. Madden is an arcade simulation mix that can be fun. There are some folks that really enjoy that and want that. There are others who want that deep, immersive, realistic experience on and off the field. They're never going to get that from Madden. The lack of options and the trimming down of sports games has really done a lot of damage to consumers. In a perfect world, none of this exclusivity crap would have happened, and everyone would be happy with their particular option.
    roadman

    The issue that bothers me some is that people that defend the game for what it is and they enjoy it are called out as, do you work for EA(yeah, real good, haven't heard that one before), a defender of the game or stop making excuses for them. The same goes on the other side as well. Stop hating the game or get off your Madden agenda, etc......

    The only problem I have with this is the fact that people say Madden "Haters" or critics have an agenda, when in fact there is a real agenda with people who incessantly defend and make excuses for the game. They usually end up working for, or with EA. So yeah we've heard that one before, now the claims are materializing, lol. I don't see "haters" or critics working with anyone.
    It is what it is, I just hate the agenda talk because we see what some of those people who talk agenda end up doing.
    The main reason that Madden has turned into an arcade-style game is the fault of many casual gamers who are content with unimportant aspects of the game such as these silly celebrations while old games were concerned about the basics of American football.
    Excellent post GiantBlue76. Didn't want quote it, but kudos.
    This is the honest discussion I came and continue to come to OS for. Everyone contributing I thank you for the excellent string of posts.
    SageInfinite
    I wish they could bring back the zoom cam from Madden 25(this gen) as an option. I loved that cam.
    Yes!!! They ruined it the next year.
    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    bucky60

    EDIT: As far as sim vs competitive mode, I haven't seem much difference between the two as far as gameplay itself goes. I see a lot of arcade type gameplay in the sim mode. It makes me question just how effective the modes actually are.

    tommycoa
    Comp and Sim do play the same running, passing, tackling, etc., but Comp has fewer penalties, less fatigue, and fewer injuries. Especially since that final patch. This game is totally different since last patch. Default playbooks work way better than they did, default books are totally usable now. The game plays way better at default since the last patch as well.
    Comp was better before the last patch, you’d see penalties, but now even with penalties at 100, i’m not seeing penalties on Competetive Mode.

    Yes, im still curious about why they "made" these different gameplay "styles" OTHER than to satisfy the comp crowd, by giving them less to no penalties, less fatigue, fewer to no injuries. Which outside of those things, and i've played both, i really could not "feel" any difference in how it plays. Attributes ( outside speed , accel ) still do not prove to mean that much in SIM mode, anymore than comp mode.
    Just go back and look at the patches for madden 18. Count up how many tunings were or comp mode, and how many for sim mode......It literally feels like sim mode is just a word and nothing else. Its what madden has always been ( but one thing its not is sim). Meanwhile they made a mode for those comp guys so they can have less penalties, injuries. But how players play on the field, feels the same.
    Just another thing EA has done that just feels like a smack to the face of the sim crowd imo.
    Back to the video, We can break down all kinds of things we see and point out issues . We can point out times things go like we believe they should. Either way this game still has a lot of work to do .If only the suits would allow more funds for things other than MUT.:drink:
    So the people who criticize Madden incessantly are the only agenda free, truth tellers. Those who strongly support it don't actually really enjoy the game and think it's good, it's just a ruse to try work for or with EA. Interesting.
    jfsolo
    So the people who criticize Madden incessantly are the only agenda free, truth tellers. Those who strongly support it don't actually really enjoy the game and think it's good, it's just a ruse to try work for or with EA. Interesting.

    Sounds like it to me. Once EA wants to start sending me a check I'll gladly provide my address since I like their product.
    SageInfinite
    The only problem I have with this is the fact that people say Madden "Haters" or critics have an agenda, when in fact there is a real agenda with people who incessantly defend and make excuses for the game. They usually end up working for, or with EA. So yeah we've heard that one before, now the claims are materializing, lol. I don't see "haters" or critics working with anyone.
    It is what it is, I just hate the agenda talk because we see what some of those people who talk agenda end up doing.

    I don't disagree because I don't like labeling anyone and I don't think I come across that way. (I know you weren't talking about anyone specifically) I am not sure if a Ryan Moody(as an example only, nothing direct here lol want to make that clear) was hired if they would act differently once they signed the employee agreement or not. I would tend to feel that would see what is behind curtain #1 and see the real Tiburon world and probably not comment any further if they wish to be gainfully employed
    I just despise people that start that crap on both sides and I would never ever end up working there.
    And GB, I agree well thought out post, might be even longer than mine, but not as "competitive" as mine. A little humor if I may.lol If I see the CPU do the same type of rollout and the same throw across the field, I will be on here raging about it. And I would never ever do that type of throw in my CFM, which is solely, CPU vs Me. I have seen the CPU QB do a spin move and fling it to the same side of the field up to 18. I am hoping throws are reduced considerably or eliminated.
    jfsolo
    So the people who criticize Madden incessantly are the only agenda free, truth tellers. Those who strongly support it don't actually really enjoy the game and think it's good, it's just a ruse to try work for or with EA. Interesting.

    Definitely not what I said, lol. I just see the word agenda come out when people are defending the game, when in reality we see the results of some of those people's agendas who are making the accusations. There are blind haters and people who just hate Madden, but most here aren't that.
    I'm one of those people who honestly enjoy the game, I just don't think it's good. We all don't want the same things, but we all do want a better game.
    GiantBlue76
    Good post here.
    Contrary to what some might believe, many of the people who are the biggest critics of Madden are more passionate about football gaming than anyone. I know a lot of guys like that. I think where the big rub comes in is that you have people constantly making excuses for the poor implementations, design and decision making involved with this game. Couple that with the 2 or 3 elements that they add to the game each release. It's insulting to the consumer because they are able to see what the other, more comprehensive sports franchises are doing from year to year. It's, for lack of a better word, embarrassing. The fact that anyone even thinks about playing 10+ year old football games over the current version of Madden is a big red flag. What's frustrating for the people who truly want a better product is that excuse making.
    "Oh it's a short cycle, football is hard, they can only do so much, it's an old build, it's on competitive, etc."
    Making these excuses instead of being honest about things that are blatantly low quality doesn't help anyone, including the development team. That being said, there is also the other side of it. For some (and it is a select few who are usually banned from here quickly) it's just a blind hate-fest. Those folks are to be ignored. When the Madden team does something good that should be recognized, but lying about things or coming up with false excuses just because you might WANT the game to be better doesn't help anything. No one WANTS to hate Madden. People just want a football simulation that measures up to what the other sports have. Hell, they want one that measures up to the old Madden and 2k games of years ago. The folks who keep playing the "nostalgia" or "agenda" card are the ones doing the real damage. It's not nostalgia. Folks are STILL playing these games. I'm one of them, and they are MUCH more comprehensive whether it is gameplay or Franchise mode. I have Madden 07 for the original xbox and the franchise mode is insanely good. It's much deeper than the current one. The gameplay is actually pretty similar too. The movement is much more fluid and there is very little warping and shifting. There's no denying that.
    Watching that gameplay vid was just disgusting IMO. Seeing Eli Manning roll out of the pocket and then pivot and throw across his body hitting a receiver in stride was laughable. It makes the game look like a 16 bit game with shiny graphics. Just because it was on competitive mode means nothing. The different modes don't affect the player movement. They don't affect very much actually, other than how well receivers catch the ball, interception frequency, fatigue and penalties.
    The game looks just like 18. I play a TON of madden games every year. I'm in an online CFM that has been running for years and we do 10 seasons a year so I know what 18 looked like (especially since I just played it 2 days ago). That video does not look much different. I also played the beta, and I went back and forth between the Beta and 18 just so I could get a feel for the difference.
    Year after year, seeing the exact same problems in the game gets old. Even when they say they fixed/added something, it rarely works. Who's to blame for that? I've heard it all - my favorite being "the suits". That may be the most annoying term ever. I have never been to Tiburon, but I can assure you that Andrew Wilson and his executive team are not standing over the shoulder of his programmers instructing them to write sloppy, buggy code that rarely works right. How about an example - this year they touted that "protect the sticks actually works". So basically, they admitted that it hasn't ever worked right? (which it didn't). In CFM, for 4 straight iterations, backup lineman who never played a down were making the pro bowl. They touted 300 new blocking animations in M25, but where are they? 300? Really? 5 iterations of the game later and we still have poor, binary line play. This year we were told that defenders can't make a play on the ball unless they see it. Ok, show us in a video log of that really working. They talked about the drop animations giving you the realistic context when a pass is dropped. I haven't seen it (someone please point it out to me because I thought that would be a good add). All the while, there are still no offsetting penalties, the challenge system is a disgrace, pass trajectories still have issues, the ball is hard wired to the players with wonky ball physics that often go haywire, etc. At some point, you have to wonder what's going on there. People here know that nothing is going to change. EA/Tiburon are not suddenly going to "Get it". It's just a place to voice/vent with people who want the same thing - a realistic, challenging football simulation game.
    At the end of the day, the "butting of heads" is still going to happen because people want different things. Madden is an arcade simulation mix that can be fun. There are some folks that really enjoy that and want that. There are others who want that deep, immersive, realistic experience on and off the field. They're never going to get that from Madden. The lack of options and the trimming down of sports games has really done a lot of damage to consumers. In a perfect world, none of this exclusivity crap would have happened, and everyone would be happy with their particular option.

    GREAT POST! Very well said. I agree with everything you said! I was disappointed in watching the video for a lot of reasons (some that you mentioned), but I’m not going to go into all of that. I will just say I was extremely discouraged and saw a lot of things still the same that have bugged me for years. I like the new additions, but I think for me it’s just not enough this time for me to purchase. Seeing that 2k is out earlier then ever with a September 7th release I think I will just wait for that. I’ll still try the demo though and see if in my hands it changes my mind. I’ve enjoyed the game for what it’s been in the past and online. But I’d like to play offline and enjoy it too, but I just don’t see that happening with this game this year. Shoot, both the videos you can see how playing online wouldn’t be fun when coming across certain types of players and that’s in play now or even a sim league. Idk...
    Whether you defend the game or criticize at, there is one fact that can't be ignored.
    In the mid 2000's madden was a game that was released annually to universal acclaim. Now madden is probably one of the most despised and criticized games I have ever seen. If that's not proof that EA isn't doing something right then I don't know what is.
    I don't hate on people for liking the game. I am actually glad your getting what you are looking for out of it. The fact of the matter is that madden is not a better game then it was 10 years ago. It is nowhere near as deep of a game as it was 10 years ago. Video games are a form of technology similar to an iPhone. Yet you will find no one that argues that the iPhone 3 is a better piece of equipment than an iPhone 7. That's because with every iteration Apple has innovated and improved the iPhone. Madden just does not innovate or improve anymore.
    I remember when madden 25 was first released on Xbox one and PlayStation 4 when they were new consoles, it was a stripped down version of past maddens. EA rationale was we had to rebuild the game for the new technology and we have capabilities to do so much more now and innovate like we never have before. We were promised so much and they delivered so little. I honestly have noticed nothing but incremental progress and we are almost at a new console generation and have never received the innovation we were promised by tiburon. Other games have delivered on that promise, madden just hasn't. Did I have some fun moments with madden over the last few years? Sure I did. But I played madden '05, '06, '07, and '08 on average for up to 6 months after release. Now I am lucky if I am not burnt out on the game after 6 weeks. It's just a stale and shallow experience. Most of this is due to the fact that I am strictly a cpu vs Human CFM player and that mode is simply not delivering.
    Whether you like the game or not the fact that people are even arguing the fact that a version of the game that was released 10 years ago is better is a problem. We can all agree to that.
    No, we can't even all agree to that.
    I'm not even getting into it, but 06-09 were the darkest years for Madden for me
    Best I can say is, to each their own.
    Don't put me in that universal universe. lol
    Vann, sorry to hear that, but I understand your perspective, big blow to the playbook community.
    On another note I think the reason that the so called critics of madden have a problem in the first place is that we feel lied to by EA. Whenever they are confronted with questions about features that the community has constantly requested they give half baked answers.
    Just earlier this year there was an interview where someone asked one of the devs about coordinators and assistant coaches. The devs reasoning for not putting them in was that if they couldn't give us real life coordinators it wasn't worth putting it in. Madden 11 had generic coordinators and the community loved it. None of us are asking for real coordinators just something. Which leads me to believe Tiburon doesn't even listen or know what their customer base wants. Instead they give us longshot which literally no one was asking for. They care more about bringing in new customers then they do about satisfying the people that have been there since day 1
    Therebelyell626
    The fact of the matter is that madden is not a better game then it was 10 years ago. It is nowhere near as deep of a game as it was 10 years ago. Video games are a form of technology similar to an iPhone. Yet you will find no one that argues that the iPhone 3 is a better piece of equipment than an iPhone 7. That's because with every iteration Apple has innovated and improved the iPhone. Madden just does not innovate or improve anymore.
    Whether you like the game or not the fact that people are even arguing the fact that a version of the game that was released 10 years ago is better is a problem. We can all agree to that.

    This is the biggest disappointment for me, especially in regards to features more so than on-field game play. I just think of all the awesome features that Madden used to have (Bruno show, newspaper, Extra Point, injuries and contracts from HC, etc) and imagine how great they would all be now if they were continually improved upon.
    I know a lot of that stuff gets picked apart for not being as good as some remember, but my point is how good that stuff would be now with years of improvement behind each one.
    Therebelyell626
    On another note I think the reason that the so called critics of madden have a problem in the first place is that we feel lied to by EA. Whenever they are confronted with questions about features that the community has constantly requested they give half baked answers.
    Just earlier this year there was an interview where someone asked one of the devs about coordinators and assistant coaches. The devs reasoning for not putting them in was that if they couldn't give us real life coordinators it wasn't worth putting it in. Madden 11 had generic coordinators and the community loved it. None of us are asking for real coordinators just something. Which leads me to believe Tiburon doesn't even listen or know what their customer base wants. Instead they give us longshot which literally no one was asking for. They care more about bringing in new customers then they do about satisfying the people that have been there since day 1

    Based on what Ben Haumiller said in a June interview at EA Play, sounds like we will have coordinators and assistants. They just prefer that they were licensed and realistic.
    The community has asked for coordinators and assistants to be put back in the game. After Ben's interview, it's the first time I've heard that generic coordinators are ok.
    I think Ben is a good person to have on the team.
    Good point Other Guy because I hated, literally hated, Bruno's voice and repeated lines, but perhaps with tweaking, it would have been better.
    roadman
    No, we can't even all agree to that.
    I'm not even getting into it, but 06-09 were the darkest years for Madden for me
    Best I can say is, to each their own.
    Don't put me in that universal universe. lol
    Vann, sorry to hear that, but I understand your perspective, big blow to the playbook community.

    Well said man.
    Like you said, to each their own. I think there is nothing more left to say on the topic. If people want to live in the past forever, so be it. I would say to go & enjoy those games, no ones stopping you.
    roadman
    No, we can't even all agree to that.
    I'm not even getting into it, but 06-09 were the darkest years for Madden for me
    Best I can say is, to each their own.
    Don't put me in that universal universe. lol
    Vann, sorry to hear that, but I understand your perspective, big blow to the playbook community.

    Nah, sabo and kinggro do a great job with playbooks too plus that was supposedly fixed anyways? Did anyone look into the cpu gameplanning in the beta test in how they went about that? Just curious. Anyways, ya I’ll try the demo and for sure read the impressions threads first this year. See what the consensus is from guys opinions I trust... I can just see those things that have bugged me. Who knows? Maybe day 1 patch addresses a few of them. I will say that lineup screen with guys with footballs is ridiculously stupid! The 1 guy cracking the football and drinking it?! Wtf?! Really?! Lol
    vannwolfhawk
    Nah, sabo and kinggro do a great job with playbooks too plus that was supposedly fixed anyways? Did anyone look into the cpu gameplanning in the beta test in how they went about that? Just curious. Anyways, ya I’ll try the demo and for sure read the impressions threads first this year. See what the consensus is from guys opinions I trust... I can just see those things that have bugged me. Who knows? Maybe day 1 patch addresses a few of them. I will say that lineup screen with guys with footballs is ridiculously stupid! The 1 guy cracking the football and drinking it?! Wtf?! Really?! Lol

    haha, hey, at least I haven't seen the bow and arrows yet.
    Might be good to have a listen to the Clint interview that might be going up tonight.
    Therebelyell626

    The fact of the matter is that madden is not a better game then it was 10 years ago. It is nowhere near as deep of a game as it was 10 years ago..
    Whether you like the game or not the fact that people are even arguing the fact that a version of the game that was released 10 years ago is better is a problem. We can all agree to that.

    I strongly disagree with #1 and Agree with #2
    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Gameplay is better but no matter what the rate of increase in the game's quality has not been high enough for most people expecting improvement. Whatever the reason is, Madden has not improved enough on a year to year basis
    Is gameplay better? Sure, in some aspects.
    But when I see CPU QBs still completing 80% of their passes, the AI having NO running game whatsoever, drag routes being complete almost 100% of the time, zone defense still absolute trash, players STILL running out of bounds when making a catch instead of trying to drag feet or run up the field, no realistic pocket forming, man defense being overpowered, etc, this is cause for concern.
    What do we have to do for the AI to actually be able to run the ball? For QBs to play like actual NFL QBs? I mean my god, a lot of us are just fed up. I see so many people in here bashing on others for having an opinion on the game one way or another.
    Some don’t like the game, some will like it no matter what, that’s just where we are. But to say people are hating or ripping the game just because “lol madden” , that’s bullcrap. Guys like Sage, he’ll openly admit he enjoys playing it, but does he criticize the game because he wants it to be that much better? You sure as hell can bet your *** he does, because he’s passionate about Madden and the NFL as a whole.
    Guys like Roadman, he loves Madden, he loves the NFL but he can share his love for the game while also being realistic and giving his criticisms as well. There’s a ton of other guys I won’t name drop but I respect the hell out of them as well because they do the same thing. That is how you become a better community, that is how you at least try to get a better game.
    Me, i can admit, I don’t love the game of football as much as most of you, but I watch it faithfully every season, I know about the history, I follow it on a regular, and i grew up on Madden. I can’t just turn a blind eye to the things I mentioned above and keep buying this game year after year.
    I’m strictly offline, solo. The QBs are a mess, the running game is a mess, defense is a mess. Man, I just don’t know. This is my opinion, and others have their opinions. I see too many instances where people get bashed or their opinions get brushed aside by a few in here just because they share a different viewpoint.
    The point I’m trying to make is, the game isn’t for some, while for others it’s a lifestyle. I played the beta and made my decision to not buy this year, so I’ve mostly been a lurker, but the back and forth between these two groups is crazy.
    It’s been a long while since there’s been true agenda posting in this forum. You wanna see agenda posting? Head over to the NBA 2K forum and see how long you can last. The madden community on this forum has come a long way. We can all agree we want a better game, but at this point, EA is gonna make the game they want to make.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Just caught the new ray weather video from today and I gotta say I am pretty hyped now. I didn't have beta access but those new animations are looking pretty good. Although CFM is sorely lacking I must admit gameplay looks pretty dang solid
    Therebelyell626
    Just caught the new ray weather video from today and I gotta say I am pretty hyped now. I didn't have beta access but those new animations are looking pretty good. Although CFM is sorely lacking I must admit gameplay looks pretty dang solid

    Ya I liked it! Not perfect, but some nice improvements IMO
    Here's my take:
    I have always enjoyed Madden since the Genesis days and still enjoy it.
    Madden 18 is a fantastic game and I've got about 200 hours in it. Anyone that says older games like Madden 08 are better are crazy.
    I'm 100% in on Madden 19 and I'm sure I'll love it.
    That's all the positive. The negative is that I think I can agree with everyone here that Madden is not progressing as it should each year. It could be a lot better.
    Every year is a huge mixture of excitement, awesomeness and some disappointment.
    I often wonder though if my feelings are the way they are towards Madden because they mirror the real NFL. I think I hold football pretty high up and I expect a lot from it. Not so much from the other sports and sports games which I also enjoy.
    My epiphany about being unhappy with this or that about Madden came a few years ago and that is that I enjoy the game as a whole, despite it missing some areas that I don't like. That's the key, enjoy the game overall for what it is, and not focus on what it isn't. Once you can learn to just enjoy it in that regards you will find you have a lot more fun!
    One last observation: I think it's sort of strange how so many people come into the forums and absolutely trash Madden year in and year out. That is not to criticize people who give constructive criticism but just people who are negative Nellies, Debbie downers, etc.
    It seems to me some of those people, not all but some, just really enjoy throwing cold water on other people's parade so to speak.
    It won't get me down though, I'm really looking forward to next week and the week after!!
    I just pray they don't nerf man coverage. As a gamer I would rather adapt to something that is very challenging. Than complain from here say/ and a week with a beta code version. Saying this is OP and then EA goes back and turns the AI into elementary difficulty.
    Madden is infamous for this thus the reason they have some of the worst total AI of all games.
    As far as the "Madden 06-09 being better than Madden 25-19"
    Its tricky most ppl probably got lost in the new(at the time) console transition. So to speak the PlayStation 3 (06 and Xbox 360(05) came out.
    See on the newer consoles madden 06-09 were hot dumpster fire, super sized player models. Improper scaling the football the size, cannon blast on deep balls, weapons were cool but ratings and such never have been executed effectively in Madden.
    Gameplay was just Extremely arcadey. Typical Madden fun but no variation essentially in animations. If you were looking to have a satisfying game against cpu.., good luck lol
    Extreme Field degradation and uniforms used to get extremely muddy.
    They did have a fair effective superstar (player career, with individual drills, wonderlic, combine drills, and interviews,) more than what you can call on now.
    Now few noticed but if you continued to buy those same games for the older Xbox and ps2.. They were absolute gold. Great gameplay. Commentary was solid , superstar was beyond solid. Had sponsors and endorsements, your own houses as background screens and scenes. Interviews,
    Radio shows, thorough half time presentations, the old madden drills (original gauntlet style) create a team create a stadium. Create a uniform,
    Presentation wasn't as bad, or disconnected as it has became over the years.
    Qb AI they knew how to throw lob vs bullet in the right situations.
    Also had create playbooks too.
    Several things we have asked for to make it back in and its took them 6-7 years to put back in what was already in their sleeper titles 10 years ago.
    So if people say those were the golden years I wonder if they mean ps2 / Xbox - the gold standard of madden from 04-08
    Rather than ps3/360 (nightmare run of 06-09)
    If you can find a old system and those games I'd advise you to play them. They were no doubt the most complete maddens, but they also felt compelled to put out good games right in that time frame because they had competition that wasn't a slouch either..
    Sent from my VS987 using Operation Sports mobile app
    ODogg
    Here's my take:
    I have always enjoyed Madden since the Genesis days and still enjoy it.
    Madden 18 is a fantastic game and I've got about 200 hours in it. Anyone that says older games like Madden 08 are better are crazy.
    I'm 100% in on Madden 19 and I'm sure I'll love it.
    That's all the positive. The negative is that I think I can agree with everyone here that Madden is not progressing as it should each year. It could be a lot better.
    Every year is a huge mixture of excitement, awesomeness and some disappointment.
    I often wonder though if my feelings are the way they are towards Madden because they mirror the real NFL. I think I hold football pretty high up and I expect a lot from it. Not so much from the other sports and sports games which I also enjoy.
    My epiphany about being unhappy with this or that about Madden came a few years ago and that is that I enjoy the game as a whole, despite it missing some areas that I don't like. That's the key, enjoy the game overall for what it is, and not focus on what it isn't. Once you can learn to just enjoy it in that regards you will find you have a lot more fun!
    One last observation: I think it's sort of strange how so many people come into the forums and absolutely trash Madden year in and year out. That is not to criticize people who give constructive criticism but just people who are negative Nellies, Debbie downers, etc.
    It seems to me some of those people, not all but some, just really enjoy throwing cold water on other people's parade so to speak.
    It won't get me down though, I'm really looking forward to next week and the week after!!

    I think this is an excellent post, my feelings exactly. I don't think I could say it any better, so I won't lol
    ODogg
    Here's my take:
    Madden 18 is a fantastic game and I've got about 200 hours in it. Anyone that says older games like Madden 08 are better are crazy.
    Every year is a huge mixture of excitement, awesomeness and some disappointment.
    One last observation: I think it's sort of strange how so many people come into the forums and absolutely trash Madden year in and year out. That is not to criticize people who give constructive criticism but just people who are negative Nellies, Debbie downers, etc.
    It seems to me some of those people, not all but some, just really enjoy throwing cold water on other people's parade so to speak.

    Here's my take:
    I want an NFL football game with a realistic and in depth franchise mode.
    Madden 18, with it's fisher-price, arcady franchise mode is far less realistic than the franchise modes of older games, including older maddens. Anyone that says any different is crazy.
    Every year is a mixture of huge franchise disappointment ever since M13 with some gameplay improvements to go along with such an unrealistic franchise mode.
    One last observation:
    I think it's absolutely strange how some people, not all, but some, make accusations of agenda posting, negative nellie's and debbie downers, for just posting legitimate observations of Madden's aversion to arcady abstractions vs realistic abstractions. Like somehow, some people take those legitimate observations as personal attacks.
    I guess it's just a matter of perspective.
    I won't quote his post because it was kind of long, but I agree with a lot of what ODogg said accept for one thing. If we just accept the game for what it was and not challlenge the devs to do better they never will. Can we still have fun with this game? Absolutely. But most of the people who are voicing complaints are doing so because of the lack luster and quite frankly half assed CFM we have been given over the last few years.
    When we (the critics) say that the games were better 10 years ago we are strictly referring to franchise mode. Not gameplay. Gameplay is better now than it ever has been and is extremely solid overall. However, If you think CFM is better than what we had as recently as madden 11 you are most likely out your dang mind. Back then we had training camps before the season, a better scouting system and balanced draft, tracking of career milestones and team history, interactive news updates informing us of the goings on of the league (news papers, tony Bruno, weekly recap show), schedule changes season to season with the ability to pick our pre-season apponents, assistant coaches and coordinators. The list goes on but those are just a few of the biggest for me. As of right now I can run a series of play now games using my imagination and a Microsoft spreadsheet and have a deeper experience than what the game is giving us. To me that is unacceptable.
    I think most of us realize Tiburon can make all this happen, they just don't care or "the suits" don't think it's worth it and probably never will unless we continue to voice our displeasure. I am going to be picking up the game after seeing rayweather new animations video yesterday. I am sure I will have a blast with it. But I am also quite certain as strictly an offline franchise player that I will most likely be burnt out on this game within 6 weeks. Gameplay is just simply not enough for me
    Therebelyell626
    I won't quote his post because it was kind of long, but I agree with a lot of what ODogg said accept for one thing. If we just accept the game for what it was and not challlenge the devs to do better they never will. Can we still have fun with this game? Absolutely. But most of the people who are voicing complaints are doing so because of the lack luster and quite frankly half assed CFM we have been given over the last few years.
    When we (the critics) say that the games were better 10 years ago we are strictly referring to franchise mode. Not gameplay. Gameplay is better now than it ever has been and is extremely solid overall. However, If you think CFM is better than what we had as recently as madden 11 you are most likely out your dang mind. Back then we had training camps before the season, a better scouting system and balanced draft, tracking of career milestones and team history, interactive news updates informing us of the goings on of the league (news papers, tony Bruno, weekly recap show), schedule changes season to season with the ability to pick our pre-season apponents, assistant coaches and coordinators. The list goes on but those are just a few of the biggest for me. As of right now I can run a series of play now games using my imagination and a Microsoft spreadsheet and have a deeper experience than what the game is giving us. To me that is unacceptable.
    I think most of us realize Tiburon can make all this happen, they just don't care or "the suits" don't think it's worth it and probably never will unless we continue to voice our displeasure. I am going to be picking up the game after seeing rayweather new animations video yesterday. I am sure I will have a blast with it. But I am also quite certain as strictly an offline franchise player that I will most likely be burnt out on this game within 6 weeks. Gameplay is just simply not enough for me

    I agree, we do need to continue to try to push them to do better. We all need to continue to submit issues and ideas for getting better in a constructive way. I'd just say we need to keep in mind that we don't allow doing that to really alter the way that we perceive the game in regards to beginning to view everything we desire, want or that is wrong as the primary things that we see.
    It's when that happens that people can become eternally pessimistic and their enjoyment of the game starts to become ruined because instead of playing it they are constantly analyzing it as something akin to more of a reviewer instead of that of a consumer.
    ODogg
    I agree, we do need to continue to try to push them to do better. We all need to continue to submit issues and ideas for getting better in a constructive way. I'd just say we need to keep in mind that we don't allow doing that to really alter the way that we perceive the game in regards to beginning to view everything we desire, want or that is wrong as the primary things that we see.
    It's when that happens that people can become eternally pessimistic and their enjoyment of the game starts to become ruined because instead of playing it they are constantly analyzing it as something akin to more of a reviewer instead of that of a consumer.

    But as a consumer, if the unrealistic abstractions that EA/Tib decide on are constantly reminding you that you are playing a toy (fisher price franchise) instead of being immersed in an NFL world, it can become impossible to overlook that. M12 was the last franchise I thought was any good. I'm not analyzing the game as a reviewer, I'm analyzing it as a consumer.
    Here is my take that I have observed over the past year and GB touched on it in his post, yesterday.
    The OS Madden forum has offered up wish lists, sent people to Community Days and even hired one of your forum members(Kane) in the past decade. The developers that visited OS the most was Ian and Phil, they were from that era, and they curtailed that after a year or so and became ghost. I don't know too many developers who lurk currently, but there might be a few.
    The point is, I've been on this site for over a decade and ideas/suggestions have been thrown around a lot. Tiburon beats to their own drummer, they do take ideas/suggestions(Twitter is a much quicker place for a good dialogue with a developer), but it might be awhile before we start seeing those ideas/suggestions placed in the game, if at all. And this is where I feel the disconnect it, Tiburon beating to a different drum beat vs consumers higher expectations. Based on the past decade, I don't feel that will change one bit.
    Some of the offline OS User vs CPU folks had a Twitter Campaign(search box Twitter Campaign) that was quite successful.
    I think the days of challenging a developer have passed us by. I think GB will attest to this, it's not necessarily the developers, those cats are passionate(most, I would think lol), but it's the programmers. I am also aware that GB doesn't feel the suits/marketing plays a role, but that is only where I would slightly disagree with him and I feel they play a influence with back of box features.
    I also fully agree with GB that OS has become more or less a place to vent. I have respect that Sage, GB, Bucky, Big, Triplechin, and Toupal(haven't heard from him lately) vent. Personally, I hope they stick around well after the game releases and contribute more ideas/suggestions.
    Like Sage said, we all want the same thing, we want the game to be better, but each of our wants and needs are different.
    I've played offline the past few years and the one thing I'll have to adjust is online play styles; some guys have a particular scheme, others may run only 1 play, etc. There is a unique challenge in trying to counteract all the different tactics a user may use (varied or not) vs the CPU who is more static as an opponent. This is what I look forward to the most playing MUT online.
    I do think that older games are viewed too much with rose colored glasses. I do think that 2k5 is over-rated quite a bit; it's fun to play for a while, the franchise mode not so much. I do agree with what GiantBlue posted earlier about Madden 07 for PS2/Xbox having the best franchise mode. I would like to see EA bring over some of those features to future Maddens (RFA, Player Roles, Morale, etc). Hopefully the NFL gives them the thumbs up to make this happen.
    bucky60
    But as a consumer, if the unrealistic abstractions that EA/Tib decide on are constantly reminding you that you are playing a toy (fisher price franchise) instead of being immersed in an NFL world, it can become impossible to overlook that. M12 was the last franchise I thought was any good. I'm not analyzing the game as a reviewer, I'm analyzing it as a consumer.

    The difference is are you playing it and noticing things that could be improved as you play or are you playing it and looking for things that are wrong or could be improved?
    Those are two very different ways of playing the game. The first is how I play it and the latter is how many people who are miserable play it.
    And in that vein, that is why I avoid these forums for a while after the game drops. I will play it and if I notice things I don't like then fine, but coming here you will tend to focus on what you may not have even noticed until someone brought it up.
    We may not be able to control what the game is or isn't but we can control how we perceive the game.
    ODogg
    The difference is are you playing it and noticing things that could be improved as you play or are you playing it and looking for things that are wrong or could be improved?
    Those are two very different ways of playing the game. The first is how I play it and the latter is how many people who are miserable play it.
    And in that vein, that is why I avoid these forums for a while after the game drops. I will play it and if I notice things I don't like then fine, but coming here you will tend to focus on what you may not have even noticed until someone brought it up.
    We may not be able to control what the game is or isn't but we can control how we perceive the game.

    I play the game with the franchise arcade abstractions being thrown in my face by the franchise arcade abstractions themselves. I don't need to go looking for them. There is no perception involved. CFM is arcadish. I don't need anyone else to tell me it is. It's all over their CFM implementation. It constantly reminds you that it is an arcade franchise and that takes me completely out of the NFL immersion I want. Even the "in game commentary" does it, as I hear them say things like "it's OK to run up the score because it's only a video game".
    You have to completely ignore aspects of the game (all of CFM) in order to PERCEIVE it as realistic.
    It's not even about "just noticing things to improve" as you play. It's about the blatant arcade/unrealistic design decisions they made for their franchise mode since the start of CFM (M13).
    ODogg
    The difference is are you playing it and noticing things that could be improved as you play or are you playing it and looking for things that are wrong or could be improved?

    Spot on right here. I try and be the former as opposed to the latter, but it's hard when the franchise isn't deep enough to keep me interested for more than a month or two.
    bucky60
    Even the "in game commentary" does it, as I hear them say things like "it's OK to run up the score because it's only a video game".

    I don't disagree with you, but this is nitpicking a bit. Small things like that don't matter in the larger scheme of things
    Therebelyell626
    Spot on right here. I try and be the former as opposed to the latter, but it's hard when the franchise isn't deep enough to keep me interested for more than a month or two.

    With some of the gameplay improvements made by Rex's team, I can overlook some of the gameplay deficiencies, but I just can't get past the arcade design abstractions of CFM.
    I'm glad for you that you can last a month or two. For me, CFM is like a bunch of tedious arcade stuff with play now games in between.
    Therebelyell626
    I don't disagree with you, but this is nitpicking a bit. Small things like that don't matter in the larger scheme of things

    That was just one small thing I mentioned. My biggest gripes are with the CFM implementation. The franchise of Head Coach was 1,000,000 times better and more realistic than CFM.
    bucky60
    That was just one small thing I mentioned. My biggest gripes are with the CFM implementation. The franchise of Head Coach was 1,000,000 times better and more realistic than CFM.

    Totally get it man.
    bucky60
    That was just one small thing I mentioned. My biggest gripes are with the CFM implementation. The franchise of Head Coach was 1,000,000 times better and more realistic than CFM.

    I would pay double or triple for a Madden with NFL Head Coach 09 depth... or just a new Head Coach title game.
    I have been playing Head Coach 09. Man. It is so freaking good in terms of franchise mode. I still can't believe things from that game have not been implemented into Madden's CFM.
    It's stunning.
    Lexicon
    First running play, Booker has at least 5 yards ahead of him, possibly even a 1v1 matchup with the DB...
    *jukes into a lineman*
    I need to stop watching these vids and just watch for 8/2 lol.

    It was a very Trent Richardson play.
    Armor and Sword
    I have been playing Head Coach 09. Man. It is so freaking good in terms of franchise mode. I still can't believe things from that game have not been implemented into Madden's CFM.
    It's stunning.

    I really enjoyed that title too. EA is missing out, they could be double dipping by adding that in and charging $$$ as DLC
    ODogg
    I really enjoyed that title too. EA is missing out, they could be double dipping by adding that in and charging $$$ as DLC

    A decent (realistic) franchise (with a realistic progression system) and most of my Madden criticism goes away.
    bucky60
    A decent (realistic) franchise (with a realistic progression system) and most of my Madden criticism goes away.

    Have you ever played the PC games where it's about football management, they are usually text type games. I used to play a football pro management thing back on the PC in 2001 or so and man was it fun. It's very in depth though. You may want to check those out, they seem like something you might like.
    The one I played was Front Office Football and it looks like 2017 is the most recent version
    http://www.solecismic.com/index.php
    ODogg
    Have you ever played the PC games where it's about football management, they are usually text type games. I used to play a football pro management thing back on the PC in 2001 or so and man was it fun. It's very in depth though. You may want to check those out, they seem like something you might like.
    The one I played was Front Office Football and it looks like 2017 is the most recent version
    http://www.solecismic.com/index.php

    Front Office Football, Action PC, Total Pro Football and a couple of others (with rosters from any year you want). They can be good, but they are missing something pretty substantial. Gameplay.
    I have some of the text based baseball games too. But I prefer The Show. I don't even bother with text based Baseketball because NBA2K is SO DAMN GOOD.
    Just think how great a game could be with NFL2k/Madden gameplay and one of the text based franchise modes OR with an updated Head Coach franchise mode. Instead, we end up with this fisher price XP/Goals with no other real alternatives.
    ODogg
    Have you ever played the PC games where it's about football management, they are usually text type games. I used to play a football pro management thing back on the PC in 2001 or so and man was it fun. It's very in depth though. You may want to check those out, they seem like something you might like.
    The one I played was Front Office Football and it looks like 2017 is the most recent version
    http://www.solecismic.com/index.php

    Not sure if you heard, but Front Office Football is now partnered w/ Out of the Park Developments. Next FoF will have the FoF engine w/ OOTP's interface and I. Am. Stoked.
    I switched over to OOTP Baseball last year from The Show and haven't looked back. Yeah, I do kinda miss the experience of actually controlling players on the field, but the insane amount of franchise depth AND complete customization of nearly every aspect of the game is mind-blowing; and they have a pretty good 3D in-game engine now that certainly helps. Then there's historical leagues where you can start your franchise in any year in baseball history and play from their w/ real teams/players/rosters from the past. It's just incredible. I can go on and on about that game.
    I would recommend anyone try FoF when the new game drops. If it's anywhere close to the amount of franchise depth and customization as OOTP baseball, I'm sure it'll scratch any and all franchise itches you have.
    I'll try to articulate something that baffles me about discussion around Madden and maybe some can help me understand it, if there's any logic to it.
    I keep noticing this conspiracy theory about OS posters that just hate Madden to hate Madden, no rhyme or reason, they are just haters. The facts are I see posts like "Madden sucks!", "I hope devs get run over by a bicycle", etc, just blatant nonconstructive "hate", get quickly banned and even more subtle unfounded critiques and/or issues like "They never add any football aspects", "just another roster update", etc get rooted out over time.
    On the flip side nonconstructive praise like "Madden is great...full stop", "Day one buy, I can't wait..full stop", etc and EA can do no wrong long term fawning like "It's good design because EA did it", "Football game development since the exclusive is exponentially harder than any other sport", etc obviously get a complete pass, even though, again, they add nothing of substance to the discussion.
    That leaves the vast majority of posters that fall somewhere in the middle, offering warranted praise, criticism, ideas, questions, etc, none of which need to be a mixed bag, as long as they are warranted, ie don't violate the OS TOS.
    Now what baffles me is the conspiracy theory seems to suggest that within that "middle", are posters that post like the vast majority but they are actually haters, posing as and posting like reasonable posters. If that's the case, I don't understand how you tell the wheat from the chaff, how some posters claim to know who these haters are that apparently they believe the Mods don't or just won't do anything about.
    This leads me to my next point of confusion, I don't understand why those that seem to subscribe to this conspiracy theory and can easily tell who these haters are, don't just use the "ignore" button. If the Care Bear Stares lovefest towards EA, ever gets to be too much for me, that's what I'd do.
    Anyway looking at these M19 videos, especially the one I posted earlier, I don't understand how anyone can reasonably claim this game doesn't have inexcusable, long standing issues. Sure that's not all the game is but if that's all me or anyone else chooses to focus on, in a particular post, that's our prerogative, no one owes positive reinforcement to EA or any other company. The OS mantra is constructive criticism, with a key part being "criticism', I've never heard of constructive praise..
    Since we seem to be talking about franchise: back in PS3, I built teams with players almost strictly on the IQ and intangibles (according to their athletic-talent round). Ever since PS4, they’ve taken away the intelligence quotient in terms of scouting. It’s like if you’re Bill Belichick and all of a sudden you can’t interview the players or even watch if they make smart decisions on the field. IMO, you’re flying blind, and real life just isn’t as much of a crapshoot as the Madden draft is now.
    Big, interesting theories, some I agree with like the ignore button, some I think you've tried to ask publicly before and perhaps a few of those you should ask privately up the food chain and you might get some answers you are looking for.
    How OS is run and how it should be run seems like a dumping ground for this thread. lol. Not a shot toward anyone specifically, including yours truly, but I think, for the time being, we've had our say.
    This was discussed earlier in the thread and I am sure I will get shot down for this opinion. GB even alluded to it yesterday that Madden should be praised when it should be and constructive criticism should also be thrown about and I agree. I try to do that as much as possible and praise others on both sides as much as possible. That has been my middle ground.
    One of my favorite posters is Sage. He tells us that he enjoys the game, and the game play has improved in 17 and 18, but he also calls it like he sees it. To me, that is a balanced viewpoint. All of us want different things in Madden, we aren't all the same with the same ideas/suggestions.
    I was called out in this very thread yesterday and the matter was taken care of swiftly. I think it's unfortunate that both sides are called out, but I am sure perceptions have everything to do with it and that is why I dislike labels here or anywhere.
    So, Big, it's not just one side that is being called out or unfair or whatever way you may perceive it, there was proof in this very thread and once that is acknowledged it happens on both sides of the fence, maybe things we be looked at different from both sides.
    Wow, shocker, brace for it, I have plenty of issues with Madden, even though I purchase the game every year since the early 90's. It's a tradition for me, and one that no one on a message board or social media will ever take away from me. I take my issues through the appropriate means, methods and channels(not just here) in the hopes that one day or sometime soon they will be addressed.
    GB, I apologize for using you as an example here, I know you went on a bit of a diatribe last night and you said you would be labeled as a Negative Nancy. I didn't think anything negative of your opinion, but it's the labeling and perceptions I have issues with.
    That is where it starts and that is where it should end.
    I have to say i enjoy it all. I like the criticism and support. I just like knowing what other people think. It does no damage to me if somebody has a different opinion of the game. To me franchise is shallow and as far as gameplay goes the last couple of years, playing against wilson or cam and not having to worry about them running made gameplay worse than it ever was. I can't believe anyone thinks Madden is anywhere near where we thought it would be now 15 years ago. I will play it at some point and i will get entertainment value for the money i spend on it but i will have some disappointment in where we all know this game could be.
    @Roadman, Criticism of Madden somehow gets conflated to criticism of those who like it, find a way to enjoy it and/or don't agree with the issues others have, that's simply not true though. OS post histories are easy to look up and speaking for me, I have a consistent history of saying I'm glad for and even envy, those that can find a way to enjoy Madden. I'm also on record admitting I was able to enjoy, not just tolerate, M06 and M07, two games that most anyone, including EA, would now openly admit were awful quality. So the notion that liking or enjoying something that's bad quality, is shameful or something for others to deride anyone over, is absurd to me and I haven't noticed anyone do it. What i have noticed is that notion being thrown out there without any evidence.
    Like Sageinfinite touched on earlier, I've been posting on OS for years, accused of a video game "agenda" plenty of times but I haven't benefited one iota from criticizing Madden, haven't intentionally stopped any sells or whatever critera is supposed to be behind an anti-Madden agenda. On the other hand, I have for fact seen those accusing people of agendas go on to work with EA, get access and just generally benefit, so for me the 'it happens on both sides" stuff doesn't hold water. I'm not playing any stupid "victim card" over video games, hell, it's video games, I'm just being honest, it is what it is.
    Again, it's too easy to check my post history, I discuss the game and notions about the game, which sometimes lead into discussion about the discussion, lol. That's all this is to me, is discussion, I'm passionate about football gaming, it has been a vice of mine since at least Tecmo Bowl but at the end of the day, it's just video games. So like with Madden, I don't have an OS "agenda", I don't expect to change this place, anymore than I do Madden, I just try to respectfully call it like I see it and interact with those that we can have mature interaction, like yourself.
    That said, I do question anyone for liking arrogant *** Aaron Rodgers but that's a discussion for another thread, lol.
    Big FN Deal
    @Roadman, Criticism of Madden somehow gets conflated to criticism of those who like it, find a way to enjoy it and/or don't agree with the issues others have, that's simply not true though. OS post histories are easy to look up and speaking for me, I have a consistent history of saying I'm glad for and even envy, those that can find a way to enjoy Madden. I'm also on record admitting I was able to enjoy, not just tolerate, M06 and M07, two games that most anyone, including EA, would now openly admit were awful quality. So the notion that liking or enjoying something that's bad quality, is shameful or something for others to deride anyone over, is absurd to me and I haven't noticed anyone do it. What i have noticed is that notion being thrown out there without any evidence.
    Like Sageinfinite touched on earlier, I've been posting on OS for years, accused of a video game "agenda" plenty of times but I haven't benefited one iota from criticizing Madden, haven't intentionally stopped any sells or whatever critera is supposed to be behind an anti-Madden agenda. On the other hand, I have for fact seen those accusing people of agendas go on to work with EA, get access and just generally benefit, so for me the 'it happens on both sides" stuff doesn't hold water. I'm not playing any stupid "victim card" over video games, hell, it's video games, I'm just being honest, it is what it is.
    Again, it's too easy to check my post history, I discuss the game and notions about the game, which sometimes lead into discussion about the discussion, lol. That's all this is to me, is discussion, I'm passionate about football gaming, it has been a vice of mine since at least Tecmo Bowl but at the end of the day, it's just video games. So like with Madden, I don't have an OS "agenda", I don't expect to change this place, anymore than I do Madden, I just try to respectfully call it like I see it and interact with those that we can have mature interaction, like yourself.
    That said, I do question anyone for liking arrogant *** Aaron Rodgers but that's a discussion for another thread, lol.

    I don't really recall your past on here prior to a couple years ago. But I do know that I haven't seen you post anything egregious or bash anyone directly.
    You bring up a lot of good points regarding Madden.
    But in general I do think there are some people who maybe not in so many words, make people feel bad for liking the game. I don't think you are one of them. But it does exist. It's more of a tone that permeates here at times.
    And I love Aaron Rodgers so take that! lol
    Armor and Sword
    I have been playing Head Coach 09. Man. It is so freaking good in terms of franchise mode. I still can't believe things from that game have not been implemented into Madden's CFM.
    It's stunning.

    Exactly. Just adding features from HC09 alone would enhance CFM a lot. Add in feature from NCAA14 and past Maddens and you have one hell of a foundation for franchise mode to build upon (still missing lots of customization!). Hard not to be a little bitter about it.
    As for the initial video, I thought the final build video looked 1000% better than the other video I watched (jags vs bears). Even made me wish I had an Xbox (ps4 owner) lol. The unnecessary juking/cutting just looks bad. Let's hope they can do something about that post launch.
    As for the 2nd video, yea, I get it, and it's not for me either, but that's the style of play they promote/spam with competitive/esports, MUT, and even arcade, right? It isn't going anywhere. Fortunately, as mainly an offline CFM player, I don't have to play that way....or against anyone that does. lol
    PVarck31
    I don't really recall your past on here prior to a couple years ago. But I do know that I haven't seen you post anything egregious or bash anyone directly.
    You bring up a lot of good points regarding Madden.
    But in general I do think there are some people who maybe not in so many words, make people feel bad for liking the game. I don't think you are one of them. But it does exist. It's more of a tone that permeates here at times.
    And I love Aaron Rodgers so take that! lol

    As far as the bold, it figures, smh, lol.
    Seriously though, I don't get how the game itself ever gets a pass, it should be front and center. Look at how often the defense of Madden is besides the point of the game itself. At the end of the day, that's all that really matter is the game itself and the company's/people's POV that make it but too often the finger gets pointed at gamers when defending the game.
    "Why don't you try this", "have you tried that?", etc, it's borderline insulting to people that have been doing all they can personally do to make the most of this series since the exclusive. Then there are posts in this forum where rather than place and leave the blame where it belongs, on the game and EA Tib, posters suggesting gamers lower their expectations, use their imagination more and the one that's most besides the point, go play something else. None of those things changes the fact of what Madden is or EA Tib being the reason.
    Armor and Sword
    I have been playing Head Coach 09. Man. It is so freaking good in terms of franchise mode. I still can't believe things from that game have not been implemented into Madden's CFM.
    It's stunning.

    I remember getting so hyped when they said they got the guy who made Head Coach to be the head of CFM. I expected great things. And we get things like XP instead...
    I think my enjoyment of the game this year hinges on the CPU running game. If I can't figure out a way for it to be realistic then I don't think I can enjoy the game this year.
    I hate playing a one dimensional CPU opponent. It takes away a whole aspect of football.
    Last year I was able to adjust sliders to at least get it to a point where good RB's could at least break off a few nice runs. So hopefully I can at least do that.
    Sorry, Big, I had another novel all written out, decided against it and decided to begin a group hug for you.
    And jealousy won't get you anywhere with Arod. lol
    PVarck31
    I think my enjoyment of the game this year hinges on the CPU running game. If I can't figure out a way for it to be realistic then I don't think I can enjoy the game this year.
    I hate playing a one dimensional CPU opponent. It takes away a whole aspect of football.
    Last year I was able to adjust sliders to at least get it to a point where good RB's could at least break off a few nice runs. So hopefully I can at least do that.

    I wish I could talk about what I was able to see in the beta. I'll just have to stay general and say I saw opposite of what I expected.
    triplechin
    Gameplay is better but no matter what the rate of increase in the game's quality has not been high enough for most people expecting improvement. Whatever the reason is, Madden has not improved enough on a year to year basis
    The reason is simple, no competition, no other football game to push them. Just look at how much better competition is making the NBA games, both games stealing features from each other, that's how it's suppose to be.
    Sent from my using Operation Sports mobile app
    canes21
    I don't care one way or the other for the intros. They aren't what we see every Sunday, but I am glad we have something in there that is somewhat personal. Seeing the actual player model is better than nothing. I think it'd fit NCAA better for some reason.

    I agree, the player intros are ridiculously goofy, it looks likes something that should be in NFL Blitz not a simulation game, whatever happened to the CBS style intros?
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    PVarck31
    I think my enjoyment of the game this year hinges on the CPU running game. If I can't figure out a way for it to be realistic then I don't think I can enjoy the game this year.

    Dude, I'm hurtin cause my enjoyment of the game hinges on a realistic and deep franchise mode. I did pre-order this year, but only because it's on PC.
    Americas Team
    The reason is simple, no competition, no other football game to push them. Just look at how much better competition is making the NBA games, both games stealing features from each other, that's how it's suppose to be.
    Sent from my using Operation Sports mobile app

    According to a video i saw by the guy this thread is based off of showing the final build, its the NFL who doesnt want multiple companies doing these games so its easier to have control of it by only dealing with one company instead of several so blame them, Not EA.
    Also, i dont play it but many have said the NBA 2K series is really getting bad, not better.
    Rayzaa
    According to a video i saw by the guy this thread is based off of showing the final build, its the NFL who doesnt want multiple companies doing these games so its easier to have control of it by only dealing with one company instead of several so blame them, Not EA.
    Also, i dont play it but many have said the NBA 2K series is really getting bad, not better.

    Both parties are to blame but that's a whole different story I won't get into.
    As far as NBA 2K it depends on what you're looking for on whether you think the series is getting better or worse.
    PVarck31
    I think my enjoyment of the game this year hinges on the CPU running game. If I can't figure out a way for it to be realistic then I don't think I can enjoy the game this year.
    I hate playing a one dimensional CPU opponent. It takes away a whole aspect of football.
    Last year I was able to adjust sliders to at least get it to a point where good RB's could at least break off a few nice runs. So hopefully I can at least do that.

    I was having an issue with M17 regarding being challenged with a realistic running attack. However, after lowering user tackle slider to 35, wow what a difference. The CPU running game really came alive. I also had to be sure to break down using strafe and make sound tackles. Hopefully sliders will work the same for M19 as I have the same concerns as you do.
    If the CPU running game is poor due to RPM animation being too exaggerated, thus slowing down the runner, then sliders may not be able to offset that. I am going to wait on the day 1 patch and then look at it fresh.
    edgevoice
    I was having an issue with M17 regarding being challenged with a realistic running attack. However, after lowering user tackle slider to 35, wow what a difference. The CPU running game really came alive. I also had to be sure to break down using strafe and make sound tackles. Hopefully sliders will work the same for M19 as I have the same concerns as you do.
    If the CPU running game is poor due to RPM animation being too exaggerated, thus slowing down the runner, then sliders may not be able to offset that. I am going to wait on the day 1 patch and then look at it fresh.

    Yup. I noticed this, too. Lowering user tackle seems to change the radius of detection of the rb or something so he tends to juke appropriately or run through the hole appropriately.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Okay the cheesy player intros need to go as mentioned by many. I like the intros they used on Madden 25. Looks more like CBS . the presentation still is very good but man and would do anything to get that NFL films music back by Sam Spence that they used in Madden 09 through Madden 11. I don't know about you guys but that really added Ed to the NFL feel and immersion. I also miss that old AFL retro filter you could use an exhibition modes and in your franchise. I just never understand why they remove great features and don't keep the implemented into the new games.
    Game overall looks pretty smooth and still noticable defense dumbness but overall I like what I see. The tackling animations continue to impress. I'm getting on launch
    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    SageInfinite
    Both parties are to blame but that's a whole different story I won't get into.
    As far as NBA 2K it depends on what you're looking for on whether you think the series is getting better or worse.

    The point is many people think NBA 2K is getting worse in many ways, and they valid reasons for thinking so.
    The gameplay video proves a serious rule bug with this game:
    The 10 second run off rule has not been implemented. In the video, with 0:07 remaining in the fourth quarter and the intentional grounding committed by the offence, by rule, the game should have ended in a regulation loss.
    Watch this (leads you right to the time stamp):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0P7UnHgPD8&t=17m47s
    And check out the rule:
    https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/10/12/13204822/10-second-runoff-rule-ncaa-clock-penalty-injury
    Kudos to a youtube user who left a comment right below the video to point this out.
    simpucker
    The gameplay video proves a serious rule bug with this game:
    The 10 second run off rule has not been implemented. In the video, with 0:07 remaining in the fourth quarter and the intentional grounding committed by the offence, by rule, the game should have ended in a regulation loss.
    Watch this (leads you right to the time stamp):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0P7UnHgPD8&t=17m47s
    And check out the rule:
    https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/10/12/13204822/10-second-runoff-rule-ncaa-clock-penalty-injury
    Kudos to a youtube user who left a comment right below the video to point this out.

    Well that sucks, this is the kind of thing that bothers a lot of folks about Madden and makes them turned off to the game when they miss details like this..
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