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Madden NFL 18 Video - Vikings vs. Steelers (SimFBallCritic)

Madden NFL 18

Madden NFL 18 Video - Vikings vs. Steelers (SimFBallCritic)

SimFBallCritic has posted another Madden NFL 18 gameplay video. This one features the Minnesota Vikings vs. Pittsburgh Steelers in Connected Franchise mode.

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  1. So it's videos like this that make me scratch my head to not just the QB AI awareness but the RB AI awareness as well. Some of these were pretty good.
    Particularly watch at:
    Nice RB run by AI: 0:39
    QB AI move and throw away: 1:49
    QB AI move and throw: 4:47
    Best QB AI Awareness I've seen so far: 8:00

    The QB AI is good sometimes and not so others. I don't know if Bridgewater is considered a mobile QB or not or what his Sense Pressure and other traits are, but I liked some of what I saw in this video, especially the last play.
    I hope EA takes this into consideration when they tune or patch the QB AI awareness.
    bad_philanthropy
    The QB play from Bridgewater looked a lot better in this. What's the deal?

    Perhaps ratings tied to speed and Agility maybe? Or some other rating that isn't awareness?
    There's another thread with the same clip. First thing mentioned is the number of opportunities to move the pocket that weren't taken. Quite a bit of static play in the pocket to go along with a few decent plays to avoid the rush.
    My question: in the final pick-6, who blocks Pittsburgh's #26 such that he is running left then get's thrown to the right several yards? Is that user error?
    That's only decent when being compared to what we've seen up to this point. That is not decent at all relative to where the game should actually be. This game looks like it'd be a lot of fun if I was playing humans every game because a lot of what I see and some things that have been addressed do appeal to me, but as a guy that plays an online franchise with only one other buddy, the terrible QB AI is till a dealbreaker for me and until it is 100% fixed I'll continue to not buy Madden.
    That pocket awareness Teddy showed at 4:50 was better than alot of what we've seen, but the movement/animations there just aren't realistic looking enough for me. Looked like the old classic Madden right there...
    "I hope EA takes this into consideration when they tune or patch the QB AI awareness".
    Yeah sometimes it seems ok, and others its just QB statue from the snap. I wonder if its an individual formation or play call offense/defense that is triggering it.
    Just curious,
    Does the CPU QBs scramble, when they are a scrambling qb?
    Does the CPU QB use any of its elusiveness/pocket awarness to avoid the rush, and scramble when necessary?
    I'm starting to think this may never be resolved, hope I'm wrong.
    D81SKINS
    Just curious,
    Does the CPU QBs scramble, when they are a scrambling qb?
    Does the CPU QB use any of its elusiveness/pocket awarness to avoid the rush, and scramble when necessary?
    I'm starting to think this may never be resolved, hope I'm wrong.

    Thus far everything I've seen in the videos makes me think it is no different from last year. There were some plays in this vid where the CPU QB did move in the pocket and even ran for a score but alot of standing motionless until throwing graphics otherwise.
    coach422001
    Thus far everything I've seen in the videos makes me think it is no different from last year. There were some plays in this vid where the CPU QB did move in the pocket and even ran for a score but alot of standing motionless until throwing graphics otherwise.

    See, why would they take out such an important factor for how the CPU qbs avoid the rush?
    Well, M12 introduced it, and it actually worked
    http://www.muthead.com/forums/madden/mut-discussion/800949-info-you-didnt-know-about-player-traits-from-ea
    It was the Tuck & Run trait, where did it GO??
    This is really the most encouraging vid i've seen so far. Yep, looked like at least better Qb awr (about what i could deal with) and even some defense made a showing.
    reverend_heat
    "I hope EA takes this into consideration when they tune or patch the QB AI awareness".
    Yeah sometimes it seems ok, and others its just QB statue from the snap. I wonder if its an individual formation or play call offense/defense that is triggering it.

    That's really interesting...I never thought of that. Might be worth testing different play calls and finding out what happens.
    I really would love to learn exactly what it is...if it's traits, play calling, attributes, or what exactly causes the "Stone QB."
    SwaggerCoach
    That's really interesting...I never thought of that. Might be worth testing different play calls and finding out what happens.
    I really would love to learn exactly what it is...if it's traits, play calling, attributes, or what exactly causes the "Stone QB."

    Exactly. The last thing we need is for the devs to overdo it and make it so QB's are TOO aware to the point of where anytime a defender breaks the line even a little bit, the QB immediately throws the ball away. That would be worse than it is now.
    2 biggest eye sores are the qb not making any movement in the pocket at all, not stepping up or sliding or anything, just looks strange.
    Second is the play at 3:41, Floyd lays out completely horizontally and a tackle animation plays that instantly brings him back to a vertical position. It's so disjointing and jarring from an immersion perspective. The animations need to flow better and there needs to be a lot more of them.
    SolidSquid
    2 biggest eye sores are the qb not making any movement in the pocket at all, not stepping up or sliding or anything, just looks strange.
    Second is the play at 3:41, Floyd lays out completely horizontally and a tackle animation plays that instantly brings him back to a vertical position. It's so disjointing and jarring from an immersion perspective. The animations need to flow better and there needs to be a lot more of them.

    Agreed 100%. That was pretty bad.
    It's pretty easy for me to see now,
    After playing a game on M25
    Vs Redskins (CPU)
    RG3(89ovr)
    It's the Tuck & Run trait. It works in M25 and it's been gone ever since the new systems came out(Ps4/Xbox1)
    It was nice seeing the CPU qb scramble and avoid 2 sacks w/ the QB Avoidance Stick!
    RG3 had 4 atts for 14yds the 1st half vs My All 25 team (which is sick btw lol, Sean Taylor, Barry Sanders, Prime time Deion Sanders, et.).
    Idk guys, I feel like last Gen M25 and Ncca 14 are still better games of football, imo.
    M25 has the Tuck & Run trait AND QB avoidance stick!
    bcruise
    Videos like this are why I don't understand why it's such a crime to let the game come out before condemning it. That was SO much better.

    bcruise, I'm guilty of condemning the game, but I tell you what. After seeing some more footage, I'm starting to change my mind about the game. The first round of videos looked disappointing imo.
    1. Bridgewater did have a nice goaline TD run. So, that was nice from the CPU
    2. Yeah, screen pass attempt taking sack or barely getting rid of ball. This is a very specific item they need to iron out. CPU QB does that all the time in 17. He has no concept of 'throw the ball at his feet' or at least 'throw the ball out of bounds if there is no screen pass to be made'. U very rarely see a sack in real life in screens because the QB only has 1 receiver. It's the RB. If he sees too much coverage, or the screen isn't there, he chucks it. Because he is normally backpedaling, he has plenty of time to get rid of it. Again, to be clear, this does happen in the NFL from time to time if the rush is just huge. But, for me, this is an issue with madden.
    3. I think I know why the QB statue happens from time to time it's our old friend, 4 Verts. Lol. I don't know about every play from every gameplay video where the QB becomes a statue and takes a sack after like 10 seconds of standing there. But, I can tell u in this video, bridgewater absolutely called a 4 verts. Everybody was 'covered,' so he doesn't pass it. Then, maybe because they need too many yards for 1st down, he stays in the pocket to throw no matter what or something. Ultimately, the rush finally gets him and no one gets open because they're all just running deep. It may not only be on 4 verts, but I have a feeling the vast majority might be for old statue of QB play. Lol
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not liking that second play at all where the RB shrugs off multiple defenders and follows up with a spin move evading half the defense afterwards. I'm not seeing any huge improvements from Frostbite so far, which I was afraid of. It feels like once the freshness of the game is over, we'll be right back in the same position as previous years. I think the rebuilding phase from the last gen has REALLY affected this franchise for years to come.
    Since I can get the physical copy for $48 through Amazon, I MIGHT get it to see how it feels for myself, but man, I'm not feeling to confident about this one so far.
    I can't wait to own a new console and get this game. Never in my life has a videogame miraculously repaired an imploded knee going through rehab in real life. MADDEN IS THE CURE! Side notice, if the Vikings get 1/10th the effort of the oline's pass protection in real life compared to this videogame, than thats a superbowl victory in our hometown. But as many know, its the vikings. We have an all star team consisting of Hershel Walker, a tag team clutch kicker tandem of Walsh and Anderson, Favre's "wise" decision to throw against his body, a child beater we openly celebrated like a god, a world class boat party, clock timed out draft picks, GOAT WR get traded to the raiders out of spite from owner, said WR coming back and cut out of spite from HC, first quality HC in decades in Zimmer only to see his own body do him a favor and savor at least his eye sight from the horrors. These just to name a few, just describe a team that has over and over and over again has asked rookies and incoming vets what its like to play in MN.......WE PLAY INDOORS YOU SPECIALISTS! I'm sorry, those $1.5 million  cars from super salarys don't have working heat in the winter. I'm glad I'm not in the NFL. And speaking of indoors, this whole spite from the football gods can be totally forgiven, if our cheap owner wouldn't have shelled out to get a world class stadium that kills a crap ton of birds. My complete and realistic prediction for the season. Vikes start out great, 6-0 to be precise, only to finish 6-10 because Hey, what are the vikes going to do? Win? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Meanwhile in Seattle, Blair Walsh struggles in the rain, gets cut. And in the frozen tundra, the Packers lose Crosby to a torn something important for kicking, (I love Crosby, consistency all year. What else can you ask for). Any who, Rodgers stay Rodgers as the best QB in the league, and the Pack bring in Walsh in a try out. Gets signed and guess what? The pack makes it to the superbowl IN MINNESOTA, and Walsh kicks a 60yd game winner as time expires, walls off the field and down the tunnel, flipping the entire state, the bird. God Damn! I would want nothing else in the world than to be a vikings fan. The most loyal fans there are. And thats about as honest as I can get. Meanwhile, the game does look pretty darn good and would love a new system to be able to play.
    After watching this again and watching the video highlights on NFL.com for the pre-season games this past week as comparison, it feels like the pass rush might be part of the problem of why QB play looks so odd. Not necessarily that blocks are being sustained too long, but that blockers are stoning the defense at the line of scrimmage and the pocket is forming too far up the field. I also checked out some videos of Madden 25, and compared similar pass plays between the two games and the pocket and spacing of the QB and the pass rush and pass blocking seemed closer to each other. Also there seemed to me more overall vertical and horizontal movement between o and d line interactions on a given play.
    The pictures aren't meant to be conclusive but just to help visualize and spitball about the theory. I feel like the o-line isn't giving enough ground on pass blocking, and the d-line is just getting stuffed too far up the field too often.
    Madden 25:

    Madden 18:

    Real life:
    seasprite
    Perhaps ratings tied to speed and Agility maybe? Or some other rating that isn't awareness?

    I don't know what is causing it. In his Ravens vs Steelers CFM video Flacco did a decent job of moving around also.
    But this video continued the pattern of questionable safety play as well. That TD pass at about the 7:05 mark, #22 was oblivious to the action.
    I've been looking at some of those hitting tackle animations in madden for 4 years now. How ballcarrier/defender interactions that don't respect momentum, speed and weight are still occurring in madden is beyond me.
    bad_philanthropy
    After watching this again and watching the video highlights on NFL.com for the pre-season games this past week as comparison, it feels like the pass rush might be part of the problem of why QB play looks so odd. Not necessarily that blocks are being sustained too long, but that blockers are stoning the defense at the line of scrimmage and the pocket is forming too far up the field. I also checked out some videos of Madden 25, and compared similar pass plays between the two games and the pocket and spacing of the QB and the pass rush and pass blocking seemed closer to each other. Also there seemed to me more overall vertical and horizontal movement between o and d line interactions on a given play.
    The pictures aren't meant to be conclusive but just to help visualize and spitball about the theory. I feel like the o-line isn't giving enough ground on pass blocking, and the d-line is just getting stuffed too far up the field too often.

    I'll go back and rewatch some videos. I'm generally one of the guys who likes to key in on the play in the secondary, but now that you mention it, it does seem like the edge rush is a bit lacking. Not in how often they beat their block, but how well they get upfield. Seems like rushers either get off their block and threaten for the sack or, as you said, they get stonewalled at the LOS.
    Having said that, I don't think that is the problem causing statue AI. Maybe the lack of edge rush makes the problem more noticeable, but it would be there anyway.
    I think there is just an error in the game's code, like a misplaced decimal or something. NFL QBs do sometimes stand still holding the ball too long resulting in coverage sacks. What we are seeing is just the frequency being way too high.
    I also think it would just look a lot better if the game had something like QB Idle Animations. Instead of the QB endlessly bouncing on their toes the game could incorporate small changes like dropping the off hand, pointing, semi pump faking, drifting around in the pocket, etc. Nothing that actually changes the AI, but puts a coat of paint over top to mask it. Not ideal I know, but at this point I'll take it.
    I'll see if I can find a good example of what I'm talking about.
    Another consistency issue is the lack of push from the defensive line. Sometimes their is a push but most of the time the offensive line stone wall's the defensive line, if no pass rush at the very least the defensive line should get a push up front making the Qb have to move in the pocket.
    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Operation Sports mobile app
    ggsimmonds
    I'll go back and rewatch some videos. I'm generally one of the guys who likes to key in on the play in the secondary, but now that you mention it, it does seem like the edge rush is a bit lacking. Not in how often they beat their block, but how well they get upfield. Seems like rushers either get off their block and threaten for the sack or, as you said, they get stonewalled at the LOS.
    Having said that, I don't think that is the problem causing statue AI. Maybe the lack of edge rush makes the problem more noticeable, but it would be there anyway.
    I think there is just an error in the game's code, like a misplaced decimal or something. NFL QBs do sometimes stand still holding the ball too long resulting in coverage sacks. What we are seeing is just the frequency being way too high.
    I also think it would just look a lot better if the game had something like QB Idle Animations. Instead of the QB endlessly bouncing on their toes the game could incorporate small changes like dropping the off hand, pointing, semi pump faking, drifting around in the pocket, etc. Nothing that actually changes the AI, but puts a coat of paint over top to mask it. Not ideal I know, but at this point I'll take it.
    I'll see if I can find a good example of what I'm talking about.

    All good points. I love the "coat of paint" idea.
    As I said, I've watched a whole bunch of real passing plays trying to figure out what's wrong. The setup and fire to the primary target on the play is definitely the most common type of passing scenario. Tons and tons of timing routes. Most plays progress way faster than in Madden and I think we're seeing too many plays where the overall play takes too long to develop--especially deep passes. Those plays either need to develop faster, or the QB logic needs to check down faster (maybe a pass rush pressure issue), or the QB needs to take the easy green more often. The overall pace of play development could be, as others have suggested, for the sake of target passing.
    There just aren't many moments in the NFL where a QB is standing there bouncing on their toes for an awkward amount of time, even on a play where the o-line puts on an epic pass protection clinic.
    EDIT: After going back again and watching the Vikings vs. Steeler video at the beginning of the thread I do think it's tied to pass rush. I'd point anyone interested to the play at 1:10. Look again, two plays later. What do you see?
    I'm not saying that I expect the game to play out at the same speed of the NFL, but that play does not credibly represent what NFL football looks like, and it's too common in the videos we've seen.
    That "Diving Catch" at 3:45 fam......
    I'd rather there be no animation at all and just have the guy called down on contact with defenders once his body hits the turf - than to have him suction back to his feet to help play out a tackle....
    And Bridgewater standing around all day and night...
    It's things like this that, that make me wish Madden 12 was remastered for the Xbox One.
    OhMrHanky

    3. I think I know why the QB statue happens from time to time it's our old friend, 4 Verts. Lol. I don't know about every play from every gameplay video where the QB becomes a statue and takes a sack after like 10 seconds of standing there. But, I can tell u in this video, bridgewater absolutely called a 4 verts. Everybody was 'covered,' so he doesn't pass it. Then, maybe because they need too many yards for 1st down, he stays in the pocket to throw no matter what or something. Ultimately, the rush finally gets him and no one gets open because they're all just running deep. It may not only be on 4 verts, but I have a feeling the vast majority might be for old statue of QB play. Lol
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    So is the experiment to set up a game with 2 QB of relatively equal scrambling ability, have one team call all 4 Verticals and the other call medium patterns (nothing long) to see if that is the culprit (or a contributor to the issue)? Perhaps start the game that way then half time switch the play calling around?
    I can understand to try to get the sack numbers relatively accurate there may be a need for some cases where the QB stand there and take it. The lack of motions though in the pocket just doesn't sit well with me, and again, incorporating some logic so that the QB with open field ahead isn't always looking pass first must be improved. I've tried things in 17 like upping many of the running attributes of the QB and trying to bucket 'elusiveness' (even Eli gets a minimum of 80) but the thing I keep seeing is those first steps of a QB like Wilson, Rodgers, RG3 are as if they are running in wet cement. Yet the defenders are full stride and overtake them much more easily than IRL. It was encouraging to see the Viking QB out run the defense for the score as you may expect in real life. I was just hoping the overall QB in pocket/avoid rush animations would look better than last year and thus far I'm not seeing it. Knowing the causes or contributors to these things though may help us set up our games such that we can all get the experience we want.
    I thought the video looked good. Bell's juke was sick completely faked out the defender. I also liked seeing Bell pick up the free guy to allow for the TD pass by Big Ben.
    That was better. Hopefully the CPU subs in back up RBS. Looked like it was typical workhorse for best RB, but the 4th had #21 in for most of it. Injury or....advancement by madden? Gasp!
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    Americas Team
    Another consistency issue is the lack of push from the defensive line. Sometimes their is a push but most of the time the offensive line stone wall's the defensive line, if no pass rush at the very least the defensive line should get a push up front making the Qb have to move in the pocket.
    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Operation Sports mobile app

    This. BIG time. In particular the DT/NT.
    Notice how neither DT/NT on either team generates ANY pressure whatsoever. They get stonewalled/pancaked every time.
    bad_philanthropy
    After watching this again and watching the video highlights on NFL.com for the pre-season games this past week as comparison, it feels like the pass rush might be part of the problem of why QB play looks so odd. Not necessarily that blocks are being sustained too long, but that blockers are stoning the defense at the line of scrimmage and the pocket is forming too far up the field. I also checked out some videos of Madden 25, and compared similar pass plays between the two games and the pocket and spacing of the QB and the pass rush and pass blocking seemed closer to each other. Also there seemed to me more overall vertical and horizontal movement between o and d line interactions on a given play.
    The pictures aren't meant to be conclusive but just to help visualize and spitball about the theory. I feel like the o-line isn't giving enough ground on pass blocking, and the d-line is just getting stuffed too far up the field too often.
    Madden 25:

    Madden 18:

    Real life:

    Great observation and comparison. However, this has been a major problem with Madden for over 15 years. Madden '18 is, however, the worst I've seen it in some time.
    bad_philanthropy
    After watching this again and watching the video highlights on NFL.com for the pre-season games this past week as comparison, it feels like the pass rush might be part of the problem of why QB play looks so odd. Not necessarily that blocks are being sustained too long, but that blockers are stoning the defense at the line of scrimmage and the pocket is forming too far up the field. I also checked out some videos of Madden 25, and compared similar pass plays between the two games and the pocket and spacing of the QB and the pass rush and pass blocking seemed closer to each other. Also there seemed to me more overall vertical and horizontal movement between o and d line interactions on a given play.
    The pictures aren't meant to be conclusive but just to help visualize and spitball about the theory. I feel like the o-line isn't giving enough ground on pass blocking, and the d-line is just getting stuffed too far up the field too often.
    Madden 25:

    Madden 18:

    Real life:

    The line play needs to be redone. The stonewall and then free release engagements kills this game for me. I need more defenders driving towards the qb while still being blocked. Make it really feel like a pocket the qb needs to move around in to keep his blockers between himself and the defender.
    kjcheezhead
    The line play needs to be redone. The stonewall and then free release engagements kills this game for me. I need more defenders driving towards the qb while still being blocked. Make it really feel like a pocket the qb needs to move around in to keep his blockers between himself and the defender.

    This is a game killer for me as well and it's not getting any better. It's infuriating and is one of the many immersion killers in this game.
    How that passes for nfl football is beyond me.
    UltraHD
    Bell is gonna be even more of a beast in this years game.

    What l like about the video with regards to Bell, is that he has open field and nobody catches him, as it should have been. M17 I have open field with LB's and everyone else catching my RB's and receivers from behind...every time. I also believe that may be tied to the reason they loosened zones. Just a theory, since they did talk about yards per game. Hate to say it but the game does look prettier, too.
    bad_philanthropy
    After watching this again and watching the video highlights on NFL.com for the pre-season games this past week as comparison, it feels like the pass rush might be part of the problem of why QB play looks so odd. Not necessarily that blocks are being sustained too long, but that blockers are stoning the defense at the line of scrimmage and the pocket is forming too far up the field. I also checked out some videos of Madden 25, and compared similar pass plays between the two games and the pocket and spacing of the QB and the pass rush and pass blocking seemed closer to each other. Also there seemed to me more overall vertical and horizontal movement between o and d line interactions on a given play.
    The pictures aren't meant to be conclusive but just to help visualize and spitball about the theory. I feel like the o-line isn't giving enough ground on pass blocking, and the d-line is just getting stuffed too far up the field too often.

    I mentioned this in another thread with a photo as well:

    In that case the interior is actually getting pushed down field past the line of scrimmage. That game was H2H though and Watson absolutely ran wild which, based on how things were playing out, should have been the case. I think another issue that may have had it end up this way is that I notice a lot of times it seems like the ends are almost tethered to a spot before they initiate pass rush moves the basically set the edge of the pocket. There's times where they get stonewalled as well but more often than not it seems like they're going through the motions for the first couple seconds to set the edges of the pocket if that makes sense.
    So if you have these gaping holes to run through and the CPU is aware of them and takes advantage of them there's nothing really your edge rushers can do because they're still tied into setting the edge of the pocket rather than dynamically rushing the passer. There's definitely issues on the interior though but at the same time with the binary win/loss it might also be the only way they can do it because once they get free, the QB's dead. You can't avoid them in tight spaces or even set up a block to avoid pressure because from the moment they win the lineman is chasing and they're completely free.
    DeuceDouglas
    I mentioned this in another thread with a photo as well:

    In that case the interior is actually getting pushed down field past the line of scrimmage. That game was H2H though and Watson absolutely ran wild which, based on how things were playing out, should have been the case. I think another issue that may have had it end up this way is that I notice a lot of times it seems like the ends are almost tethered to a spot before they initiate pass rush moves the basically set the edge of the pocket. There's times where they get stonewalled as well but more often than not it seems like they're going through the motions for the first couple seconds to set the edges of the pocket if that makes sense.
    So if you have these gaping holes to run through and the CPU is aware of them and takes advantage of them there's nothing really your edge rushers can do because they're still tied into setting the edge of the pocket rather than dynamically rushing the passer. There's definitely issues on the interior though but at the same time with the binary win/loss it might also be the only way they can do it because once they get free, the QB's dead. You can't avoid them in tight spaces or even set up a block to avoid pressure because from the moment they win the lineman is chasing and they're completely free.

    We had the fix dealing with pocket push in our hands for about a week, but as usual, folks just see something they don't like without really considering the ramifications of possible changes.
    The lack of pocket push is due to the "Pocket timer" imposed as a fix to folks complaint about "Insta-Shed".
    The catch is that simply lowering PMV/FMV and/or BSH ratings of defenders would've minimized how fast the separation would occur.
    We as gamers could've controlled the speed of separation ourselves with roster edits, but it was put back into the devs hands to do something immediately due to the outcry, thus "Pocket Timer" (ie forced rush delay)
    Because there was no Time Delayed imposed, OL were driven backwards by those def with a higher Get-Ingage (ie STR rating) than OL but with lower blocksheding ratings.
    - OL was driven bakwards while still engaged
    Lesson learned, I will immediately disconnect game from internet after going live as to not download corrections to things that really don't bother me and/or I actually like what's going on.
    khaliib
    We had the fix dealing with pocket push in our hands for about a week, but as usual, folks just see something they don't like without really considering the ramifications of possible changes.
    The lack of pocket push is due to the "Pocket timer" imposed as a fix to folks complaint about "Insta-Shed".
    The catch is that simply lowering PMV/FMV and/or BSH ratings of defenders would've minimized how fast the separation would occur.
    We as gamers could've controlled the speed of separation ourselves with roster edits, but it was put back into the devs hands to do something immediately due to the outcry, thus "Pocket Timer" (ie forced rush delay)
    Because there was no Time Delayed imposed, OL were driven backwards by those def with a higher Get-Ingage (ie STR rating) than OL but with lower blocksheding ratings.
    - OL was driven bakwards while still engaged
    Lesson learned, I will immediately disconnect game from internet after going live as to not download corrections to things that really don't bother me and/or I actually like what's going on.

    Khaliib, why do they keep doing these changes to the "sim" mode? You didn't reference "who" complained about 'insta-shed' but I thought we had different modes so each group could have their own tuning.
    The zones were supposedly much better b4 and they did the same thing to that. Why aren't they leaving "sim" as intended, like OOTB last year? I thought they learned from that.
    And I'm confused about the Get-Engage and "pocket timer". Clint bragged about both as great additions but it sounds like they contradict each other if I'm reading you correctly?
    Appreciate your insight.
    Think Khalib is referring to last year's Madden. People complained about instant pressure so EA's solution was the pocket timer.
    If you recall last year if you controlled a decent pass rusher and you timed the snap and did a FMV/PMV you got past the blocker immediately.
    ggsimmonds
    Think Khalib is referring to last year's Madden. People complained about instant pressure so EA's solution was the pocket timer.
    If you recall last year if you controlled a decent pass rusher and you timed the snap and did a FMV/PMV you got past the blocker immediately.

    possibly, but it looked to me he was replying to post b4 his that was referencing the lack of interior push we're seeing this year. sounded like people complained about an earlier build and the Devs responded by changing something; and now we have the constant stalemate at the LOS b/c of the timer (which doesn't always work either, seen 8+ seconds of pocket time). Hopefully he'll clear it up and I was just misreading.
    deu22ces
    possibly, but it looked to me he was replying to post b4 his that was referencing the lack of interior push we're seeing this year. sounded like people complained about an earlier build and the Devs responded by changing something; and now we have the constant stalemate at the LOS b/c of the timer (which doesn't always work either, seen 8+ seconds of pocket time). Hopefully he'll clear it up and I was just misreading.

    He was replying to lack of interior rush this year, but that change was due to complaints from last year.
    I don't think he was talking about an earlier build, because "had it in our hands" isn't how you would typically describe it, and also where he said lesson learned next time he will drop connection to the internet.
    deu22ces
    Khaliib, why do they keep doing these changes to the "sim" mode? You didn't reference "who" complained about 'insta-shed' but I thought we had different modes so each group could have their own tuning.
    The zones were supposedly much better b4 and they did the same thing to that. Why aren't they leaving "sim" as intended, like OOTB last year? I thought they learned from that.
    And I'm confused about the Get-Engage and "pocket timer". Clint bragged about both as great additions but it sounds like they contradict each other if I'm reading you correctly?
    Appreciate your insight.

    Happened about 1st week of M17 release.
    Suggested to Clint about a return as an aid to help offset User QB's dropping back too far (like in some capture vids) do to lack of push perceived in M18 vids.
    His notation of how the Comm in general felt.
    The trenches on pass plays still are nowhere near where they should be. Interior linement stoning DT/NTs and it coming down to the shed win or loss. When are we going to see an interior tackle get the right first step and penetrate the pocket WHILST still engaged? All pro football 2k8 did this fantastically
    khaliib
    Happened about 1st week of M17 release.
    Suggested to Clint about a return as an aid to help offset User QB's dropping back too far (like in some capture vids) do to lack of push perceived in M18 vids.
    His notation of how the Comm in general felt.

    Thanks Khaliib, appreciate it. Sounds like i misunderstood your context/timeline in the previous post.
    Have to admit, I was looking forward to the OL/DL interaction and pocket mechanics from listening to Clint. But what I'm seeing doesn't add up. A real pocket gets pushed back about 4-5 yds most plays (exceptions being 3-step drop and WR screens); instead i'm seeing what essentially is run blocking from G/C's, 'stonewalling' or even pushing defenders forward and these wide looping animations from Edge rushers b4 a "stalemate". The result often is this huge 10+ yd wide pocket, wider than the original tackle box and 5-7 yds between the QB and interior rush. Should be seeing the Edge rushers squeeze the tackle box and the interior presses the middle; leaving the "collapse" feeling and sense of urgency by QB's. You see it occasionally in-game but not consistently. Was hoping for consistency and occasional gaffes.
    deu22ces
    Thanks Khaliib, appreciate it. Sounds like i misunderstood your context/timeline in the previous post.
    Have to admit, I was looking forward to the OL/DL interaction and pocket mechanics from listening to Clint. But what I'm seeing doesn't add up. A real pocket gets pushed back about 4-5 yds most plays (exceptions being 3-step drop and WR screens); instead i'm seeing what essentially is run blocking from G/C's, 'stonewalling' or even pushing defenders forward and these wide looping animations from Edge rushers b4 a "stalemate". The result often is this huge 10+ yd wide pocket, wider than the original tackle box and 5-7 yds between the QB and interior rush. Should be seeing the Edge rushers squeeze the tackle box and the interior presses the middle; leaving the "collapse" feeling and sense of urgency by QB's. You see it occasionally in-game but not consistently. Was hoping for consistency and occasional gaffes.

    I do not get why the refuse to totally redo line play. It would be something that would instantly give their game a fresh new look.
    I mean I think the
    Base for lineplay is still from the first year of PS2.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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