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Madden NFL 18 Video - Chargers vs. Raiders (GhostRobo)

Madden NFL 18

Madden NFL 18 Video - Chargers vs. Raiders (GhostRobo)

GhostRobo has posted a new Madden NFL 18 gameplay video featuring the Los Angeles Chargers vs. Oakland Raiders.

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  1. Saw some really good stuff in this video. CPU establishing a running game, Rivers making small small avoidance moves in the pocket (3:54), somewhat of a pocket formed at 6:40.
    I only watched the first half for now, but it looked better than the Falcons/Pats Superbowl video.
    12:08 - pick looked good
    12:50 - Hail Mary play looked more realistic
    12:58 - push out of bounds, just a nice sequence of animations
    15:42 - love the tackle coming off the block
    20:40 - amazing pick. Hope they have catches that hit the turf and can be overturned... wishful thinking though...
    23:57 - undercuts the route, should have been a pick there
    roadman
    Nice GL stop of beast mode at the end.

    I was actually shocked the commentary was appropriate for the situation.. even though it didn't trigger properly. If they can continue to iron that stuff out, that's huge.
    Overall there are some things that make me say wow that's better, then there's times where I cringe.. mainly the tackling. But i hope as videos come out we start to see some really cool stuff. That pick 6 was really awesome
    4thQtrStre5S
    YEs. I was hoping for a challenge though; it was really close.

    Agree.
    The booth should have really challenged that one. Sometimes, when you go into try to challenge the call, it's whited out, which is only part of the reason the challenge system is shotty.
    By far the best gameplay! These are the type of videos and gameplay EA should release as opposed to these other you tubers videos. It just shows off their game in a way better light. I get the marketing through them but just have them commentate a game and post videos of gameplay with sim guys playing sim football... CPU gameplay calls seemed like they were maybe touched on too... Good News!
    vannwolfhawk
    By far the best gameplay! These are the type of videos and gameplay EA should release as opposed to these other you tubers videos. It just shows off their game in a way better light. I get the marketing through them but just have them commentate a game and post videos of gameplay with sim guys playing sim football... CPU gameplay calls seemed like they were maybe touched on too... Good News!

    Loved the CPU calling TO with 3 seconds left in the half and try a Arod play. lol
    Some bette stuff for sure.
    I'm really trying to put my finger on what bothers me about movement animations and running in general.
    At 11:34 on the PR the acceleration and movement just looks all wrong. When I slow it down the foot planting looks right. Maybe there just isn't enough rotation in the upper body and hips in general. The really quick cuts seem to really emphasize the stiffness even more.
    Also check out blocker #38 on that same play. He has a weird and stiff slanty posture going on like he's being dragged across the play by a string or something.
    The bad:
    @2:40 Still no cpu Qb awareness in the pocket.
    No pressure from Bosa or Mack (the oline still seems OP on default settings)
    Mostly the same animations from 17
    Mostly the same in-game presentation from 17
    The good:
    Juke moves
    Open field running movement seems improved
    Graphics and lighting
    Pass defense seems improved
    Overall it just looks like an more polished version of Madden 17, they really need to overhaul the animations and in-game presentation to give the game a fresher look and feel.
    bad_philanthropy

    I'm really trying to put my finger on what bothers me about movement animations and running in general.

    They're just ugly, goofy, non athletic, disjointed and don't belong in this generation of games.
    I can't take this game seriously as long as it animates and moves like it does. There's some good to decent stuff in there, but it's few and far between. Madden really needs an overhaul in this area. Hasn't been decent since the PS2 days...
    This is why you can't judge a game off of short videos. This video showed a lot of good things that we didn't see in previous videos. It looks more like that I expected Madden 18 to look like.
    The sack at around 2:50 was great. And it was a great block to pick up the LB too, but he fought through the block and made the sack while still being blocked. That was pretty sweet.
    Now I'm a little more excited to at least try it with EA Access.
    It was better. Still not something I would classify as "good".
    The defense for both teams essentially put up no resistance at all...especially from the CPU. The two INTs were from a bad decision and a random overthrow. Still too much patty cake on the line and the same money routes from the past three years have somehow gotten even more money this year.
    I gotta see this game on simulation All-Madden before I judge too harshly but at this point I struggle to find anything positive besides the graphics and a few new animations.
    This video really brought back some of my enthusiasm. Don't know if it's just the camera but I always thought the zoom option brought out the best in the game aesthetically. Only thing I never liked about that cam is you have to make some throw blind, like those smoke screens.
    Pocket formed nice on some plays. Saw a couple of nice power rushes from Bosa. The INT in the 4th from Carr -- Bosa was walking the tackle back -- but there wasn't the withering pressure from either he or Mack. I still have not seen anyone fiddle with the coaching adjustments yet, though. I'd really like to see -- end of half situations especially -- someone turn the pass rush to aggressive and see what's what.
    SageInfinite
    They're just ugly, goofy, non athletic, disjointed and don't belong in this generation of games.
    I can't take this game seriously as long as it animates and moves like it does. There's some good to decent stuff in there, but it's few and far between. Madden really needs an overhaul in this area. Hasn't been decent since the PS2 days...

    I think you're right. It might be as simple as that.
    I've played a ton of FIFA and PES the past few years, and while each certainly has its issues with animation, I think they do a great job of animating movement (FIFA on slow game speed looks much better than normal) and being very branchable/input friendly. I'd even say each game looks like it moves better when you're controlling it (rather than watching passively) because there's enough detail in the movement animation that it builds a bridge between the visual and input—to take it to another level of immersion. If that makes any sense In Madden I never get that feeling. Within the span of two quick inputs it can feel stiff and heavy and floaty and out of control, but not in a way the feels athletic or explosive.
    Obviously they are different sports, and need to represent different types of movement and interactions, but I feel like from a technical standpoint Madden is closer to Rugby League Live 4 in terms of animation in basic movement than say FIFA, PES, or if its even relevant NBA 2k. RLL4 is made by a tiny studio on a tiny budget, and so it's games like that that make me want a bit more from Madden's animation system.
    bad_philanthropy
    Some bette stuff for sure.
    I'm really trying to put my finger on what bothers me about movement animations and running in general.
    At 11:34 on the PR the acceleration and movement just looks all wrong. When I slow it down the foot planting looks right. Maybe there just isn't enough rotation in the upper body and hips in general. The really quick cuts seem to really emphasize the stiffness even more.
    Also check out blocker #38 on that same play. He has a weird and stiff slanty posture going on like he's being dragged across the play by a string or something.

    I really think you may have hit on something here, players changing direction, obviously a huge part of football, doesn't look right in Madden. There is lean, but it's the entire body leaning, watch any rb in the NFL, and the upper and lower parts of the body twist away from each other often. With the graphics continuing to improve towards near photo realism, the more jarring it is to the viewer when the player models don't move correctly. Basic player movement really does need a complete overhaul, it simply doesn't look natural.
    PVarck31
    This is why you can't judge a game off of short videos. This video showed a lot of good things that we didn't see in previous videos. It looks more like that I expected Madden 18 to look like.
    The sack at around 2:50 was great. And it was a great block to pick up the LB too, but he fought through the block and made the sack while still being blocked. That was pretty sweet.
    Now I'm a little more excited to at least try it with EA Access.

    The sack animation looked good but the lack of Qb awareness ruined it, no Qb would just stand their with pressure that close to them and not even react to it.
    Still looks and plays a lot like Madden 17 which isn't necessarily a bad thing. A few things I didn't like:
    The first sack in Rivers no attempt by the AI to throw the ball away or move up in the pocket.
    Second sack on the screen pass I hope isn't a issue in the final game.
    Wanted a booth review on the 2 point attempt at the end of the game. I did like that the AI ran the ball multiple times. Need to play for myself during EA access next week
    2:40 - This sack is everything that is wrong with AI QB's. Guy users his defender and completely abandons his zone to blitz/bite on PA and Rivers misses it (which is fine) and then just stands in the same spot as he gets walked down by pressure in his face. Just terrible.
    3:08 - 3rd and 9 and no four verticals. Only one play but that's positive.
    6:19 - I know it's only one play but this is one of my biggest gripes with the current tackling system. I really don't like how when tackles are initiated the RB's legs seem to just go limp and the RB just kind of falls in place. This is really amplified when using power backs.
    7:40 - WR screen looks so much better than M17. In M17, both receivers just go out and stand out in front of the receiver and do nothing. Looks like one went down field and the other took the closest target. Really interested to see what that looks like vs. man coverage.
    10:10 - Again with the AI QB. I don't know how many times I've watched Rivers run a play like that and literally just throw the ball at the ground to avoid the sack. Screens should nearly never result in sacks. This absolutely needs to be better.
    10:35 - Again with the RB, wish there was more drive and falling forward than falling and collapsing. Next play looked but better.
    18:30 - Still not sure how I feel about the hit stick sound. At first I didn't really like it but it's growing on me a little bit. Nice big hit.
    20:37 - Don't know what's going on in the slot on this play. Ball is snapped and the receiver just stands there for a good second or so before starting his route. Looked like he was frozen or something. First inaccuracy I've seen. Liked the pick and return, it's weird how every 10-15 yards the player hunches over quickly. Looks odd.
    22:20 - Good sequence with the juke and tackle. When stuff like that happens the game looks amazing.
    26:05 - Disappointed to see onside kicks still roll like bowling balls. This is a place where ball physics should really be a factor and every onside looks like you kicking a basketball.
    Overall not too bad. It's nearly identical to M17 gameplay wise which is both good and bad. Good in that M17 was fun, bad in that it seems like a lot of M17's issues might still be there. It was on Simulation and I only saw one inaccurate pass and no penalties. The lighting and colors though are beautiful, the game looks absolutely amazing from that standpoint. I was just expecting to see more of a contrast gameplay wise to M17 with most of the resources outside of Longshot being dedicated to it.
    Does anyone know why one or two players on each team have the riddell helmet with the revo speed two bar face mask? It's jarring every time I see it.
    I get the feeling this release is going to be one that happens every few years where the game is just really buggy and you can tell the dev team didn't get the resources they needed to polish the game.
    Also, no penalties. Ridiculous.
    I'm not too worried about the penalties end because this game was played on 4 minute quarters, less than half what I usually play on, but, I agree, not seeing one on 4 drives per half is a bit concerning.
    I just thought this video played out better than the one's we saw yesterday.
    Good breakdown, Duece, thank you.
    SageInfinite
    They're just ugly, goofy, non athletic, disjointed and don't belong in this generation of games.
    I can't take this game seriously as long as it animates and moves like it does. There's some good to decent stuff in there, but it's few and far between. Madden really needs an overhaul in this area. Hasn't been decent since the PS2 days...

    I believe the issue is a thing called physics which for some reason madden still cant get.I know , someone will chime in and say , its hard to program. How many years have they had a shot at doing so? How many does it take? Why does other games like FIFA seems to be able to do a much better job ( an EA title that also used same ignite engine that Madden has for years mind you) at it but Madden cant grasp it? Im still waiting for people running with the ball not to be able to glide all over the place, zig zag back and fourth at will and at top speed. Its rather disappointing because football is almost all about physics as far as actual playing of the game.
    Anyone know what Game Speed this was set to?...I play all my games on Slow....some re-rated players...coupled with Armor/Sword sliders i should be good to go this year✔️
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I could only watch the first half. Where is the defense? The only stops in the first half was desperation throws with time running down.
    I's like to see some defensive stops that don't include ints, or 10 yard sacks. How about just a good old fashioned defensive stop. Was the second half better? After the first half I couldn't watch anymore.
    It was more exciting Bucky, the game could have ended on a proper booth review, but, we know how that ends up.
    I'm still standing by my statement that this video is better than anything that I saw yesterday, great no, better, yes.
    roadman
    It was more exciting Bucky, the game could have ended on a proper booth review, but, we know how that ends up.
    I'm still standing by my statement that this video is better than anything that I saw yesterday, great no, better, yes.

    Well, my question was, did the second half have any real defense?
    Even exciting, w/o defense, just doesn't do it for me.
    I wonder if XP has anything to do with no defense. Have we gotten to were stat chasing has become so important to progression that offense is just much more important to the progression game mechanic? Maybe I'm just being paranoid about XP/Goals progression. I may be biased and paranoid about XP/Goals. I just don't see any good in it and just view it as evil.
    cuoreceltico
    the most notable things on this video is that defence sucks at drag route as usual lol

    I notice that and then I wonder if that is where the new shading is supposed to be used to counter such routes?
    4thQtrStre5S
    I notice that and then I wonder if that is where the new shading is supposed to be used to counter such routes?

    *Dies Laughing*
    I just want to know who thought it was a great idea to lower knockouts and pass rush, leave over-accuracy intact and dumb down zones on game that historically has issues with an overpowering passing game.....and THEN add Target Passing, like whaaaat?
    Look at the TD to Cooper @ 14:45. Casey Hayward is an 86 rated CB...people are talking about how good the game looks? Tell me you guys are kidding.
    Kushmir
    *Dies Laughing*
    I just want to know who thought it was a great idea to lower knockouts and pass rush, leave over-accuracy intact and dumb down zones on game that historically has issues with an overpowering passing game.....and THEN add target passing, like whaaaat?
    Look at the TD to Cooper @ 14:45. Casey Hayward is an 86 rated CB...people are talking about how good the game looks? Tell me you guys are kidding.

    Honestly, one of the most annoying animations, events, in M17 was the damn knockouts; and every time you would complete a pass in the middle, down field or in traffic there would be a LB or safety to automatically knock the ball out.. Very unrealistic band aide for what I saw as a means to generate incompletion statistics.
    I still stand by my question as to how shading may assist in jumping such routes; as I am sure it is used in the win/lose logic manner.
    Bucky, I took a look again at the second half.
    It wasn't a free for all on every play, I would say 50/50 on defensive stops? I saw the RB's stopped, I saw broken up passes and 1 Int.
    Haywood was a slot corner with the Packers. He was a ball hawker and wasn't know for his speed.
    Maybe Cooper has a higher speed rating, I don't know.
    Better is not the same as good.
    4thQtrStre5S
    Honestly, one of the most annoying animations, events, in M17 was the damn knockouts; and every time you would complete a pass in the middle, down field or in traffic there would be a LB or safety to automatically knock the ball out.. Very unrealistic band aide for what I saw as a means to generate incompletion statistics.
    I still stand by my question as to how shading may assist in jumping such routes; as I am sure it is used in the win/lose logic manner.

    In reality knockouts far outnumber deflections...so it was a good mechanic to lower too-high completion percentages--especially re: guys who couldn't read defenses and would just throw into tight coverage and expect good things. There are many aspects of football that are "annoying" in gaming (off-target passes and penalties for instance)--I guess it just depends what's more important...you not being annoyed or good gameplay.
    Here's to another year of 80% completion rates, drags, crossing routes and corner routes that beat man coverage by 5+ yards and the only bad passes being interceptions and can't forget shoot-outs....you guys have fun with that.
    Kushmir
    In reality knockouts far outnumber deflections...so it was a good mechanic to lower too-high completion percentages--especially re: guys who couldn't read defenses and would just throw into tight coverage and expect good things. There are many aspects of football that are "annoying" in gaming (off-target passes and penalties for instance)--I guess it just depends what's more important...you not being annoyed or good gameplay.
    Here's to another year of 80% completion rates, drags, crossing routes and corner routes that beat man coverage by 5+ yards and the only bad passes being interceptions and can't forget shoot-outs....you guys have fun with that.

    Depending on how we wanna classify "knockouts" the hit by defender stat in the NFL says about 2% of incompletions happen that way...
    Overthrow is 17%
    Pass Defensed is 16%
    Dropped is 15%
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/why-not-all-passes-are-completions
    4thQtrStre5S
    Depending on how we wanna classify "knockouts" the hit by defender stat in the NFL says about 2% of incompletions happen that way...
    Overthrow is 17%
    Pass Defensed is 16%
    Dropped is 15%
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/why-not-all-passes-are-completions

    Madden really needs to look at that because in Madden it's more like:
    90% Throwaways
    5% QB being hit as he's thrown and ball falling out of his hand
    4% Dropped (Catch/Int)
    1% Inaccuracy
    It's definitely better for the user side though.
    Raiders could not stop runs from shotgun. Saw a play I can't wait to try, very interesting route with two high low reads. Any new formations on defense?
    roadman
    I'm not too worried about the penalties end because this game was played on 4 minute quarters, less than half what I usually play on, but, I agree, not seeing one on 4 drives per half is a bit concerning.

    My only guess is they were turned off. Playing 4 minute quarters should have resulted in more penalties because I'm pretty sure the way they were tuned was to give a realistic number of penalties regardless of quarter length. I know in M17 when I was doing one minute quarters there were penalties pretty much every play but then again in my franchise I'm playing 15 minute quarters and have the penalties jacked up pretty high and still hardly ever see them so I have no clue.
    4thQtrStre5S
    Depending on how we wanna classify "knockouts" the hit by defender stat in the NFL says about 2% of incompletions happen that way...
    Overthrow is 17%
    Pass Defensed is 16%
    Dropped is 15%
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/why-not-all-passes-are-completions

    Wait so you're using real data in a game where I can score 40 pts in 5 minute quarters and complete 70% of my passes on a whim?
    *dies laughing again*
    You're being awfully selectively outraged re: the one thing you don't like....
    Good stuff. Please--go on...tell me more about how every aspect of Madden must meet the PFF numbers lol.
    Anxious to see you fight for accurate "drop percentages" by the way.... :D
    Kushmir
    Wait so you're using real data in a game where I can score 40 pts in 5 minute quarters and complete 70% of my passes on a whim?
    *dies laughing again*
    You're being awfully selectively outraged re: the one thing you don't like....
    Good stuff. Please--go on...tell me more about how every aspect of Madden must meet the PFF numbers lol.
    Anxious to see you fight for accurate "drop percentages" by the way.... :D
    Was this type of response really necessary?? Everyone has different desires for the game, people value different things.
    Mocking another member for comparing the Madden stats to real stats just shows HIS priority is more realistic stats.
    Whatever floats our individual boats is ok...shouldn't be ridiculed or mocked.
    Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
    mykelmosinee
    Was this type of response really necessary?? Everyone has different desires for the game, people value different things.
    Mocking another member for comparing the Madden stats to real stats just shows HIS priority is more realistic stats.
    Whatever floats our individual boats is ok...shouldn't be ridiculed or mocked.
    Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

    You're missing my point...most of us agree that realism is great...when devs can do it and it isnt exploitable, if not? Balance is Priority.
    I'm saying be consistent in your arguments...don't refer to balancing mechanics you don't like as "annoying" and then jump to PFF data when it suits you--again...most of the game blatantly and overtly violates the stats we see on PFF.
    So pretty, shiney, precious.....I see some of yall are in the controlled environment video trance. Just like every year.
    NOW, lets see some real world, (games you are gonna see when you playing online or in leagues) gameplay.
    I want to see some videos with people sending heat. Lets see how well ID the mike works with different types of blitzes from various formations works. Lets see how well you can run from a power set against dollar. Demo how the new zone coverage's are suppose to work. Demo the Man to man defense. Does the shading work ?
    They do this crap every year. Show you a bunch of non-feature testing videos were the lemmings are mesmerized by the graphic upgrade and one or two new animations they notice. Meanwhile the game plays like crap and half the features don't work or are half way working.
    SageInfinite
    They're just ugly, goofy, non athletic, disjointed and don't belong in this generation of games.
    I can't take this game seriously as long as it animates and moves like it does. There's some good to decent stuff in there, but it's few and far between. Madden really needs an overhaul in this area. Hasn't been decent since the PS2 days...




    They just defy physics. There shouldn't be an acl left intact by the end of a madden game. Plus, when they hit, physics and momentum don't move the players they way it should. Grazing hits seems to stop rbs in their tracks while squaring up has them falling forward. It's like they play on another planet with 2 suns so the gravity is weird or something, lol.
    I really hate this one..

    Philip Rivers is barely moving to his right and the user hits him on the right...or almost misses him, and Rivers goes flying head over heals as if he was on a dead run when the contact happened. The result is fine, but it looks goofy and ridiculous.
    TombSong
    So pretty, shiney, precious.....I see some of yall are in the controlled environment video trance. Just like every year.
    NOW, lets see some real world, (games you are gonna see when you playing online or in leagues) gameplay.
    I want to see some videos with people sending heat. Lets see how well ID the mike works with different types of blitzes from various formations works. Lets see how well you can run from a power set against dollar. Demo how the new zone coverage's are suppose to work. Demo the Man to man defense. Does the shading work ?
    They do this crap every year. Show you a bunch of non-feature testing videos were the lemmings are mesmerized by the graphic upgrade and one or two new animations they notice. Meanwhile the game plays like crap and half the features don't work or are half way working.
    Lets get some teams with lousy QBs or put in a 2nd or 3rd string QB lets see how sim SIM mode is
    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
    TDKing
    Lets get some teams with lousy QBs or put in a 2nd or 3rd string QB lets see how sim SIM mode is
    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

    Check the new video from simftballcritic.
    There are some noticeable inaccurate throws from Trevor Siemenon.
    roadman
    Check the new video from simftballcritic.
    There are some noticeable inaccurate throws from Trevor Siemenon.
    Will do thanks
    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
    Kushmir
    You're missing my point...most of us agree that realism is great...when devs can do it and it isnt exploitable, if not? Balance is Priority.
    I'm saying be consistent in your arguments...don't refer to balancing mechanics you don't like as "annoying" and then jump to PFF data when it suits you--again...most of the game blatantly and overtly violates the stats we see on PFF.

    Ur just basically being a pain in the butt for the sake of it. Really don't care about ur dying laughing stuff cause u disagree with how I see the game and have shown that most in game incompletions are due to knock outs, consistently so, which is an eye sore and generally takes away from the immersion.
    If u just wanna try and troll with ur laughing then come over to Facebook where I can freely troll u back cause no need to get banned here
    4thQtrStre5S
    Ur just basically being a pain in the butt for the sake of it. Really don't care about ur dying laughing stuff cause u disagree with how I see the game and have shown that most in game incompletions are due to knock outs, consistently so, which is an eye sore and generally takes away from the immersion.
    If u just wanna try and troll with ur laughing then come over to Facebook where I can freely troll u back cause no need to get banned here

    I'm not trolling at all...i'm just pointing out your personal preference for not seeing knockouts while not offering any real solutions for lowering completion percentages. I'm fairly certain Madden doesn't meet PFF's standards in reference to off-target passes (which is available on your 2 year old link) deflections or drops. And you haven't referred to either one as a way to achieve realism.
    I'd also suggest that 80% completion percentages are more immersion-breaking than anything.
    Kushmir
    I'm not trolling at all...i'm just pointing out your personal preference for not seeing knockouts while not offering any real solutions for lowering completion percentages. I'm fairly certain Madden doesn't meet PFF's standards in reference to off-target passes (which is available on your 2 year old link) deflections or drops. And you haven't referred to either one as a way to achieve realism.
    I'd also suggest that 80% completion percentages are more immersion-breaking than anything.

    Not really my job to give solutions and especially not for the sake of appeasing you. I gave statistics which include any number of options like over throw or even deflected or defended passes. The latter options would most likely look a lot better than receivers jumping in the air and getting hit at the high point and then dropping the ball.
    Ultimately I find ur issue with my comments to be ridiculous and unwarranted.
    Note: My comment which u decided to quote and laugh at was in regards to whether shading inside would help cover slants or drags; you went off about knockouts... then you said, "In reality knockouts far outnumber deflections...so it was a good mechanic to lower too-high completion percentages." thus you stated "IN REALITY" so I quoted reality...If you don't want reality don't say it and just stick to the virtual gaming world. Still, I didn't mention knock outs in the post u quoted of me.
    Can't get behind this game when the main tackle animation remains the RB falling backwards onto his butt.  It's just a killer for me.  Once tackling momentum gets fixed, I'll return to Madden.  Maybe....
    4thQtrStre5S
    Note: My comment which u decided to quote and laugh at was in regards to whether shading inside would help cover slants or drags.

    If you knew the history of shading (first introduced in Madden 06 I believe)--you'd laugh too.
    Kushmir
    If you knew the history of shading (first introduced in Madden 06 I believe)--you'd laugh too.

    SHading hasn't worked forever, but Rex said it now is supposed to actually shade outside and inside to help cover certain routes. I am waiting to see if it does work for once.
    still hate the way the defensive players look when they fall down after a gang tackle.  multiple defenders, usually 2  players fall as if the animations for bath players were mirrored.    this looks very unnatural.    doesnt matter if they trip over someone or not, they fall at the same time same motion and start getting up the same way.   This  doesn't look organic at all.
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