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Madden NFL 18 Video - Bills vs. Dolphins (SimFBallCritic)

Madden NFL 18

Madden NFL 18 Video - Bills vs. Dolphins (SimFBallCritic)

SimFBallCritic has posted another Madden NFL 18 gameplay video. This one features the Buffalo Bills vs. Miami Dolphins.

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  1. NDAlum
    That first series on 3rd down there's about 50 yards of green to run lol
    oy vey

    Try to guess the result of this play.

    ...
    It's a sack.
    And this one:

    ...
    Throws away the ball.
    This isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning too, it's Ryan Tannehill, who is sneakily one of the best running QBs in the NFL (or, was).
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000115263/Ryan-Tannehill-31-yard-run
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000293961/Tannehill-58-yard-scramble
    engrishbwudd
    He just posted this one within the hour.

    Yeah, I deleted my post.
    What confused me I saw the same swivel hips by Brown in another of Sim's video's.
    My bad.
    Does it not bother anyone that in every video defensive tackles get no pressure just stone walled by centers and guards? no matter who the DT is?
    As a Miami fan, this pleases me. The colors, the lighting, the stadium. It all looks so much better.
    Hopefully though they can address the QB awareness issue there. Mind you, Tannehill has been criticized an awful lot for poor pocket awareness and not taking off to run when he has had opportunities, so... maybe they're not so far off in this video. :y11: Joking of course. That's a scenario where in the game, the CPU QB should be taking off.
    I wonder though if they're looking at it as, if the QB takes off there, and picks up 15 yards, on the flipside, I can see some in the player base/fan base being equally upset that QB's are too hard to stop on the run too. There's got to be a fine line though between a QB standing there forever, throwing, running, or taking a sack. I think if they actually tuned it to NFL timing, I can see Madden players being upset with not having enough time before the AI QB throws, runs, or passes. I think Madden has traditionally tried to give more time than real NFL qb's have to either get rid of the ball, take off, or get sacked in order to make the game more playable.
    I know it's easy to bash them on it, but I feel like they're trying to walk such a fine like there between what's real, and what's still going to be fun, that they err on the side of caution, which in this case is fun... because afterall, they're making a video game.
    That being said, when you see a play like the one in this game, there's no doubt it needs to be tuned though. Maybe not from a timing standpoint, but more from the logic side of things.
    In defense of that first screenshot, yes he had all that green to run, but it was 3&25 so even if he took off, there is no way he would've got it.
    My problem with this play is more about terrible playcalling by the CPU. It's 3rd and 25 in the first quarter. The game just started. There is no reason to go that aggresive and call four verts. Most teams would've ran the ball or did a simple screen pass. Plus, if you go aggresive and you have your number 1 target 1 on 1 on the left with no safety in sight, that's where you go. No reason to wait for all the WRs to get 50 yards downfield and then air it out. Most of my ints in M17 were on plays like this against the CPU.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    The long 3rd I wonder if it was out of his "running" range, meaning the game knows he won't convert 3rd and 25 on the ground so he stays in the pocket hoping someone gets open. The reality is it should be happy with something over nothing, but I wonder if it is a simple "priority" issue where it wants a 1st down when it should be okay with getting better field position for a punt.
    T4VERTS
    The long 3rd I wonder if it was out of his "running" range, meaning the game knows he won't convert 3rd and 25 on the ground so he stays in the pocket hoping someone gets open. The reality is it should be happy with something over nothing, but I wonder if it is a simple "priority" issue where it wants a 1st down when it should be okay with getting better field position for a punt.

    Yeah, the Tunables are very tricky.
    It may be due to a Targeting Threat behind the LOS not being established to trigger AI to scramble with possible targets being engaged in blocking interactions.
    The other side that could be disasterous is that all AI QB's start scrambling outside there Player Type. (had this issue in NCAA 14)
    Altar the Scrambling Tunable wrong, then possibly monkey up Def LOS attack Logic also.
    It can get very tricky and possibly create a catch-22 scenario.
    NDAlum
    People probably thought the 50 yards was an exaggeration...
    Well sadly it's really not
    :(

    I think to me, the bigger problem here isn't the fact that the QB is taking off running, it's that the WR's are 40 yards down field, the D has drifted back with them. To me, that's simply too much time. So, either someone on the D should have gotten pressure, or beaten an OL by then, or the QB should have made a decision. It simply looks like no pressure has gotten there, so with a long 3rd and 25 in the first example it's almost like nothing has triggered the QB to move.
    The 3rd and 3 example, that one bothers me. Clearly he's got to take off for that first down there, not throw it away. I wonder if the User's initial failed attempt at the sack messed with something there. The QB reacts by rolling out, which is nice (although it should have ran for the first right there) but then as he rolls out, likely to get the edge and run for the first down the User peels off the DE to try and hit the QB which prompts the throw away, as opposed to tucking and running. It's like it didn't anticipate the pressure since the man was being blocked, but once the user creates the threat there, off went the ball.
    I play as a DL most of my time in Madden. Last few years, I've found that's a mistake. I feel like the AI OL, gets a boost when you play along the DL so you can't take advantage of any exploits and always get to the QB. Maybe it just feels that way because I'm... crazy? I don't know, but something seems different about playing D when I'm a DE or DT, as opposed to a LB/DB, it seems to change the blocking of the OL, and effectiveness of the AI QB.
    There's always going to be that difficulty too I think, because the system has to try and react to the unknown, which is the control of the User. That, I can understand to a degree.
    It's the CPU vs CPU issues that really bother me though. I just wonder how much of it is done to prevent players from getting angry about getting beat by a QB taking off and running. I also wonder how much of it is prompted by User error. I've seen a lot of examples in these videos of User controlled players, not playing their assignments and being out of position which of course also throws off the AI's decision making. User control seems to have that effect on the AI, and sometimes, as I said earlier it seems like the AI gets a boost in some area's to prevent it.
    I guess what I'm trying to say is, we can all look at it as an issue, but I think it's quite a bit more complicated to fix. Sure, we look at it as if it's a real NFL game, and NFL player who should make that decision. Lets not forget though, this is a video game based on code so what's common sense logic to us as humans, is much more difficult to replicate through code in a video game, that also has to account for the actions of the human controlled players.
    Rebel10
    Try to guess the result of this play.

    ...
    It's a sack.
    And this one:

    ...
    Throws away the ball.
    This isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning too, it's Ryan Tannehill, who is sneakily one of the best running QBs in the NFL (or, was).
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000115263/Ryan-Tannehill-31-yard-run
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000293961/Tannehill-58-yard-scramble

    Literally a free sack. Almost wondering if nerfing the d line caused this. Same with tyrod tayler. If his first read or second isn't there he takes off. That should translate Into madden. He's not a pocket qb.
    Yeah I understand that it's difficult to get the logic down about when a QB should run or not, but when you're the only game in town, there's an expectation that you're going to be able to deliver on things that you'd definitely see in those situations on Sunday.
    Hopefully maybe on All Madden Tannehill scrambles in both circumstances. Or maybe a hgiher rated AWR or a trait he takes off... Though you'd assume if any QB had a scrambling trait it'd be Tannehill, up to his injury he was one of the best running QBs in the NFL. Even though he wouldn't have the first down on that first screenshot, a 15 yard run & slide would give much better punting field position...
    Though of course it wouldn't matter, the wind bug caused Miami to boom an 80+ yard punt on 4th down.
    jbd345
    Literally a free sack. Almost wondering if nerfing the d line caused this. Same with tyrod tayler. If his first read or second isn't there he takes off. That should translate in the NFL. He's not a pocket qb.

    In some defense of the AI, the user is playing as Buffalo here, so any passes where Tyrod forces it (the deep TD pass for one) is the user doing that. Same with missing that sack, he runs right by him on the screen haha.
    peki
    In defense of that first screenshot, yes he had all that green to run, but it was 3&25 so even if he took off, there is no way he would've got it.
    My problem with this play is more about terrible playcalling by the CPU. It's 3rd and 25 in the first quarter. The game just started. There is no reason to go that aggresive and call four verts. Most teams would've ran the ball or did a simple screen pass. Plus, if you go aggresive and you have your number 1 target 1 on 1 on the left with no safety in sight, that's where you go. No reason to wait for all the WRs to get 50 yards downfield and then air it out. Most of my ints in M17 were on plays like this against the CPU.
    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    4 verticals is a staple of CPU play calling. They probably call that it every series. Madden CPU QB AI is still in the stone ages.
    I was already going to skip buying the game on release, but thought about jumping in eventually this year if there was a sale, but after seeing the QB AI in all of the released videos so far I'll just continue to skip over Madden another year. I want the game to be good, obviously or I wouldn't sit here each year keeping up with it, torturing myself, but I've honestly just about given up on EA at this point. I went from buying NCAA and Madden every single year to buying Madden once in 4 or 5 years because of the progress or lack thereof this game has made. It's just disappointing really.
    The comments about players complaining if the game is too hard blow me away. It's probably true but if the CPU can beat me on a play I'm usually thrilled. I want the challenge. Go back and play some Madden 94 or Super Play Action Football. You'll be begging for a harder game. I used to cheat just to make games a challenge back then lol.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We've all heard the phrase...".Plenty of green ahead of him." But my God, that first screen shot takes the freaking cake. And the result is a sack....wow.
    I'm not going to beat the dead horse of AI QB, instead I'm going to point out another problem which for me could be equally bad -- AI safety play. Seems like most videos I've watched have some plays where the safety goes blank or something.
    This video check the deep TD pass he made in the first half around the 2 minute warning. The SS is in perfect position to break up the pass, but he doesn't. He does absolutely nothing actually.
    If this was an isolated incident I wouldn't think anything of it, but like I said, most videos have something like this.
    So the two biggest gameplay issues look to be AI QBs and safety play. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
    Seriously, these are not new problems, I lost track of how many years we've had this. Completely inexcusable.
    DrStrangepork
    The shadows seem off in the stadium.*

    Tough to say without knowing the time of day and time of the year of either the photo or of the game in the video. I'd imagine Frostbite does not change shadows depending on the time of the year, but it does change them depending on time of day.
    A game at 4PM will have very different shadows than a 1PM game, and a game in December will have very different shadows than a game in August.
    *edit*
    Using my eagle eye... (zooming the hell out of the photo), that looks to be Cleveland @ Miami from Sept 25, 2016, and the scoreboard looks like 24 to 24, so that would be the end of regulation (the game ended in OT 30-24). That was a 1PM game that day, so that photo would likely be taken around 4PM or so.
    It's actually not too bad. If you run the video to near the last drive of the game, near the end of the 4th, the shadows are making similar parts of the field be in "direct sun" (the crowd, both in game and photo) and other parts in the shade, and the pillar pattern on the ground is actually pretty accurate, just off by about ~30 yards or so. In defense of EA here, they probably work off of photos taken at various times of the year and try to position the light source based on that, so if their research photos are taken in, say, March or April then the sun and shadows would be a good deal different, or even the November sun vs. the September sun.
    It will be interesting to see how the intros work out over time. They all look really cool at first but once you get into a franchise and start playing with one team they become stale really fast if there isn't a varying amount of them. Madden 12's were good but stale as hell but I would like to see the return of the flyover for playoff games or even random games throughout the season.
    Took less than 30 seconds for terrible AI QB's to show themselves. Blitzing corner coming right at him and of course he sprints right into him. And then the next play is a perfect example of why it's important for the QB's to be aware of what's going on around them. Again, pressure right in his face and he just stands in. If he moves a little bit to his right, he might have a chance at getting the ball off or he might move into the pressure on the right side and have it still be a sack. And then 3rd down, just horrible.
    Blocking on the outside for WR screens looks so much better. In M17 the blockers just go out and shuffle in motion and let you get tackled and this is the second or third time I've seen them actively seeking out targets.
    Sack at 2:31 looked really odd on the O-Line.
    WTH happened on the run at 6:12? Ajayi has the entire field in front of him and looks like he slows down to accommodate the reach tackle animation. That looked really bad.
    6:23 I get why he threw it away but nobody should ever run a HB screen like that.
    Liked seeing a bunch of inaccuracies but I want to see them on All-Madden before I get too excited over anything.
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