Connect with us

Madden 20: Gutfoxx Explains Why the Run Game Dominated Competitive Scene

madden-nfl-21-03851

Madden NFL 20

Madden 20: Gutfoxx Explains Why the Run Game Dominated Competitive Scene

The recent Madden Bowl is getting a lot of press beyond the usual outlets because it catches the eye when you see a person won using a punter at QB while never throwing a pass. Running dominated Madden Bowl, and Madden 20 has been geared to the run all year long (and we’ve known this). However, as we move rapidly towards Madden 21, this final reminder at a competitive event is a good reason to look back at how we got here in the first place. I’ve featured Gutfoxx videos before, and I do it because in between his fits of rage (which, hey, I enjoy when he loses his mind) he is one of the best around at breaking down the meta and the issues with it.

So what Gutfoxx talked about here is important to scope out I think because even if you play a lot of Madden, you might not know some of the reasons why running got so out of hand this season. And if you play almost exclusively against the AI, this might also be helpful because the fact that the Madden Bowl is played under the Salary Cap rules is another facet that adds to outcome here that you might not otherwise know about.

All in all, game balance is not a simple fix, and Gutfoxx’s video breakdown is an example of why that’s the case. There are multiple issues at play here, and we’ll just have to hope the developers can find a better balance for ’21.

16 Comments

Leave a Reply

Discussion
  1. that video was very well done! thanks for sharing. I tried watching that tournament and could only make it 5 minutes it looked awful. now I know exactly what was going on. so disappointing to see the game make a mockery of such basic football fundamentals. 2k please save us.
    Executives at Electronic Arts have the final say to changes made in madden. The developers can recommend changes but the executives in upper management must approve them otherwise the developers cannot make any changes. People are upset at the developers and sometimes it's the developers at various video game companies that have Looney, deranged ideas, but the ceo and upper management always have the final say as to what is in the final product. So the executives should shoulder the blame when there are problems with the final product but it's the developers that primarily get criticized. I stopped playing madden and I play mostly nba jam on fire edition. Madden has bad artificial intelligence on defense and the offensive line a.i. is dumb. In real life no team can run the same exact contain edge blitz repeatedly and achieve success. Offensive lineman in real life will adapt and at least make an attempt at blocking the outside corner blitzers. Stop complaining and play NBA Jam on Fire Edition :nchuck:
    The example of how the Offensive Line dominates the Defensive Line up the middle is why Madden should not call itself a football simulator anymore. Changing the fundamentals of the game of football so that video game players don't get upset because they have to actually adapt and learn the game itself is a joke. Who cares if players complain about getting sacked because they want to run backwards 20 yards and heave the ball downfield, make them learn to play correctly, don't make the game easier for the worst players.
    On line play for actual cash is going to encourage exploitation with a video game, which is why this isn’t actually a sport. Imagine if one team playing actual football was allowed to play on motorcycles during the super bowl because it works better.
    Hard pass on watching this nonsense, but it’s not really taking away from the many hours I got for my $60.
    People who compete at a high level are going to do whatever works. Last year no one was running the ball at all.
    People have been spamming the run all year because throwing against a skilled player is an incredibly dangerous proposition. Big blitzes came back this year in a way that we haven't seen for at least 2-3 editions of the game. If they don't want to blitz they can equip 2 X-Factor pass rushers and drop 8 all game long.
    However most guys use 3 enforcers on the back end. You think Bobby Wagner and Jamal Adams are a problem in franchise? Try playing against 3 of them who have 99 SPD... along with lurker and universal coverage.
    Catch knockout rates are also crazy high (basically any contact at all will cause an incompletion) unless you have a route ability on your receiver (i.e. Post Specialist eliminates the defenders catch knockout chance when the receiver runs a post).
    Abilities were a fun addition but their competitive balance was horrific.
    The developers of madden are aware of the issues with the game and want to make changes to it but the executives in upper management won't approve every idea the developers present to them. Many developers begin a project as "dreamers." They expect things to be as they hoped it would be or should be, but they soon learn it's not. In other words they do not have the creative freedom they should have and want. The work hours can be 7 days a week 12+ hours a day and they weren't expecting that either. And so most everyone blames the developers and calls them names because of problems in the game, but it's actually upper management that's calling the shots. I used to play madden and became very good, especially online but if the problems with the game bother you that much you can either make the best of it or play a different game that you enjoy.
    I stopped playing madden awhile ago and play other games now, but I still watch youtube videos of others playing it and I give the developers credit for improving on madden over the years. Remember the nano blitz era in madden, now that was bad !
    :bil:
    Cardot
    After developing football games for 30 years, how do you botch the dive play?

    The dive play has been busted since at least going back to 2013. Even in NCAA 14 does the OL get a huge amount of push on dive-like plays no matter what the ratings/matchups are. The running game has always been too easy in EA Sports games, but it seems like it's gotten even easier this year.
    canes21
    The dive play has been busted since at least going back to 2013. Even in NCAA 14 does the OL get a huge amount of push on dive-like plays no matter what the ratings/matchups are. The running game has always been too easy in EA Sports games, but it seems like it's gotten even easier this year.

    I don't think a lot changed this year. I think the changes to prevent players from passing the ball too often resulted in many exploiting the already existing run-game issues.
    I remember playing MUT online matches in M15 and just running dive/trap plays and getting at least 4-6 yards every run. March straight down the field. My opponent could never stop me as long as I had a decent OLine and RB. That seems to be what happened this year as the passing game became too risky.
    canes21
    The dive play has been busted since at least going back to 2013. Even in NCAA 14 does the OL get a huge amount of push on dive-like plays no matter what the ratings/matchups are. The running game has always been too easy in EA Sports games, but it seems like it's gotten even easier this year.

    Agreed. I still play NCAA '14, and it is hard to get exciting about those plunges from the goal line. The lack of fumbles doesn't help either. (Sorry for the sidetrack). But frustrating EA can't get the most basic of basic plays right.
    Cory Levy
    The example of how the Offensive Line dominates the Defensive Line up the middle is why Madden should not call itself a football simulator anymore. Changing the fundamentals of the game of football so that video game players don't get upset because they have to actually adapt and learn the game itself is a joke. Who cares if players complain about getting sacked because they want to run backwards 20 yards and heave the ball downfield, make them learn to play correctly, don't make the game easier for the worst players.

    Na the developers had the perfect idea when they created the 3 different styles (sim/arcade/competitive)
    now if only they would make them actually change the gameplay for them...
    I started getting bored with MUT and joined a 32 man to mix things up. There's definitely something wonky about Dive defense in Sim mode. It's honestly worse than MUT Stretch or Wildcat spam. Interior DL practically never shed blocks unless you've got a Kenny Clark, Snacks, etc.
    I've got Da'Ron Payne playing nose and rush DT for me and he can't do anything at all. 95 STR, better than 80 BSH and PMV and I don't think he's got a mark on the stat sheet through 3 whole games with 8 min quarters.
    My single player franchises are always played on competitive and I do not experience this same issue. In fact I frequently pick up Payne in my fantasy drafts because he's young and available much later than other DTs of his caliber. He's an absolute goon in those games.
    The game mechanics have been overly manipulated to create desired results, whether to mimic NFL statistics which have been demanded by consumers, or to quick patch exploits, such as the nano blitz, stunts, etc.
    The game engine and coding needs a new start.
    Another concern that has crossed my mind is the requirements needed to complete MUT Solo Battles. The objectives in these solo battles, such as rushing for 75 yards in 5 carries or completing 10 passes without an incompletion or getting a pick 6 in 4 plays or less, etc. cannot be accomplished in a satisfactory manner to the user if the game operated with proper physics and American Football mechanics.
    What are the odds in the NFL of a RB gaining 75 yards in 5 carries, when they have to run, without passing, and of course the defense knows these rules? Won't happen.
    It would seem exploits and fiction must be implemented in Madden just to make MUT Solo Battles work. I think we can forget about a simulation football game.
    4thQtrStre5S
    The game mechanics have been overly manipulated to create desired results, whether to mimic NFL statistics which have been demanded by consumers, or to quick patch exploits, such as the nano blitz, stunts, etc.
    The game engine and coding needs a new start.
    Another concern that has crossed my mind is the requirements needed to complete MUT Solo Battles. The objectives in these solo battles, such as rushing for 75 yards in 5 carries or completing 10 passes without an incompletion or getting a pick 6 in 4 plays or less, etc. cannot be accomplished in a satisfactory manner to the user if the game operated with proper physics and American Football mechanics.
    What are the odds in the NFL of a RB gaining 75 yards in 5 carries, when they have to run, without passing, and of course the defense knows these rules? Won't happen.
    It would seem exploits and fiction must be implemented in Madden just to make MUT Solo Battles work. I think we can forget about a simulation football game.

    Beating these requirements is almost always done using plays/tactics that are easily bagged by skilled humans. They also require very specific tactics, so they really have little to no impact on "normal" play because the circumstances just won't be re-created.
    As an example. For most of the game you can get the AI to toss you an easy pick by coming out in FG Block, calling an audible to Punt Safe which induces them to audible to 4 Verts for most of the game, and you can then easily bait a throw to one of the outside routes and you don't need the lurker ability to do it.
    This is *the* go to move to maximize your Battle Score in Solo Battles. The only reason to do this is if you want to try for top 100. You can not rack up enough offense otherwise because the games are so short. One can also instantly end any solo challenge of the "don't allow any yards/points"" variety.
    How does this tactic effect the broader game?
    stinkubus
    Beating these requirements is almost always done using plays/tactics that are easily bagged by skilled humans. They also require very specific tactics, so they really have little to no impact on "normal" play because the circumstances just won't be re-created.
    As an example. For most of the game you can get the AI to toss you an easy pick by coming out in FG Block, calling an audible to Punt Safe which induces them to audible to 4 Verts for most of the game, and you can then easily bait a throw to one of the outside routes and you don't need the lurker ability to do it.
    This is *the* go to move to maximize your Battle Score in Solo Battles. The only reason to do this is if you want to try for top 100. You can not rack up enough offense otherwise because the games are so short. One can also instantly end any solo challenge of the "don't allow any yards/points"" variety.
    How does this tactic effect the broader game?

    It shows the true nature of Madden to be an arcade game. The AI breaking methods to maximize battle scores is the method to get top 100, agree.
    Running the same stretch or dive and waiting for the defense AI to pick the wrong play is another method. Though why the AI would pick the wrong play when it knows the offense has to run, is confusing. Reminds of the criticism Barry Switzer and the Cowboys received for calling the same run play against the Eagles on 4th down.
    A third method, such as in the case of the rushing for 75 yards needs no more than the fastest or near fastest HB, which was Tony Pollard for about the first 4 months in M20. The Offensive line could all be silver or lesser cards as the defensive line is rendered nearly useless by issues with coding or animation, or whatever the explanation was a few years back.
    The defense does not spill, force or apply fits properly. There seems to be little effect by physics.
    I feel these issues matter because when playing the CPU in Play Now, for example, when avoiding AI busting plays such as running Salem concept over and over again, which the CPU can't seem to adjust to defend, the CPU can stop you with their defense or score on offense when needed.
    Their 2 minute offense is Patriots-like regardless of team; if a user is calling base plays and covering their key assignment in zone or man.
    Playing a clean game against the CPU can easily result in nail biting games with the CPU matching your the user play call with the proper offense or defense to make the stop or gain proper yardage to set up a 3rd and short.
    These game play mechanics, whether DDS or whatever it is being called, manipulation, indicates to me that their is probably too much going on in the game code to allow for proper cleaning up and fixing of errors and bugs in that same coding.
    This leads me to believe that issues with correcting OL/DL interactions and cleaning up physics and pursuit angles and so on are never going to happen, even with next generation processing power.
    The game needs a new engine and consistent game play coding that represents the physics of humans playing the game of american football.
    *By too much going on, I am referring to: Play Now, Franchise, MUT all play differently. Rookie, Pro, All-Pro and All-Madden all play differently. Arcade, Simulation and Competitive all play differently. And if I remember correctly, there is also a game start up option for Beginner, intermediate and expert skill level. This lends it self to how many different variations on how the game mechanics are processed and played out? Seems like a recipe for disaster.
    *Note: I am not a programmer so maybe it is easier to create such variation in coding than it appears, and multiple levels and skill and game play mechanics can be easily programmed. If so, I would love to learn how so I will gain new knowledge.
    Cardot
    After developing football games for 30 years, how do you botch the dive play?

    Short answer, the developers working on Madden have not been making football games for 30 years.

More in Madden NFL 20

Poll

Recent Forum Threads


Top Esports News

Related

To Top