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Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week
 
Madden has always mirrored the NFL. In this week's tip, we look at what the Philadelphia Eagles have to take into account if they want to be successful passing the ball. This logic goes hand-in-hand with the Madden football series.

Bottom line, fast receivers are only a threat when they have space to use their speed. To overcome physical corners as well as inexperience, we hit practice mode to demonstrate how the Eagles in the NFL, as well as teams with undersized receivers in Madden, get open space for their playmakers to create big plays.


Madden NFL 10 Videos
Member Comments
# 1 CatMan72 @ 11/19/09 10:43 AM
Good stuff, thanks!
 
# 2 Valdarez @ 11/19/09 12:15 PM
Using picks to get open? Seriously? No offense to the OP, but it constantly amazes me at what passes for strategy in Madden.
 
# 3 northface28 @ 11/19/09 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdarez
Using picks to get open? Seriously? No offense to the OP, but it constantly amazes me at what passes for strategy in Madden.
Then what do you suggest for people that abuse the over powered bump and run coverage in this game?
 
# 4 jsquigg @ 11/19/09 12:33 PM
And though picks are illegal, teams get away with it 80% of the time at least.
 
# 5 Yankees_CT @ 11/19/09 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsquigg
And though picks are illegal, teams get away with it 80% of the time at least.
Agreed! and it is probably more.
 
# 6 Valdarez @ 11/19/09 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by northface28
Then what do you suggest for people that abuse the over powered bump and run coverage in this game?
I don't play online, but in APF2K8 you could do a couple of things against guys that abuse bump.

1. Get a Bump Master receiver
2. Motion a receiver and then hike the ball before the defense could get set.
3. Use Arrow Routes
4. Use double move routes
5. Use Screen Plays
6. Use Flats

There's probably a couple of more I forgot. The strategy showed in this video is more of a problem with pathing in Madden than a planned pick. i.e. More along the lines of an exploit rather than utilizing real football strategy.
 
# 7 northface28 @ 11/19/09 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdarez
I don't play online, but in APF2K8 you could do a couple of things against guys that abuse bump.

1. Get a Bump Master receiver
2. Motion a receiver and then hike the ball before the defense could get set.
3. Use Arrow Routes
4. Use double move routes
5. Use Screen Plays
6. Use Flats

There's probably a couple of more I forgot. The strategy showed in this video is more of a problem with pathing in Madden than a planned pick. i.e. More along the lines of an exploit rather than utilizing real football strategy.
That is all fine and dandy but the game we are talking about is Madden, not APF2K8. "Picks" happen every Sunday, some WR's even use the referees as landmarks. So its not all that unheard of.
 
# 8 Valdarez @ 11/19/09 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by northface28
That is all fine and dandy but the game we are talking about is Madden, not APF2K8. "Picks" happen every Sunday, some WR's even use the referees as landmarks. So its not all that unheard of.
Wow, not APF2K8, thanks for pointing that out, I was sooo confused.

While picks may happen in the NFL, it's not programmed into Madden. What you are seeing is a pathing issue with the players. If you want to pretend it's a pick, more power to you. Myself, I'd rather employ real offensive strategy to break a defensive strategy instead of depending on deficiencies in the game.

I listed several viable options, that should work. Are you saying none of the items I provided above work in Madden? None?
 
# 9 RayAllen20 @ 11/19/09 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdarez
Wow, not APF2K8, thanks for pointing that out, I was sooo confused.

While picks may happen in the NFL, it's not programmed into Madden. What you are seeing is a pathing issue with the players. If you want to pretend it's a pick, more power to you. Myself, I'd rather employ real offensive strategy to break a defensive strategy instead of depending on deficiencies in the game.

I listed several viable options, that should work. Are you saying none of the items I provided above work in Madden? None?
Picks work in the NFL and they work in Madden. It isn't a cheese thing, it is just strategy. Madden is trying to mirror the NFL so why shouldn't picks be successful, and why shouldn't we use them?
 
# 10 Valdarez @ 11/19/09 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayAllen20
Picks work in the NFL and they work in Madden. It isn't a cheese thing, it is just strategy. Madden is trying to mirror the NFL so why shouldn't picks be successful, and why shouldn't we use them?
I'm not going to argue this point. Picks are not programmed into the game, what you are seeing is an issue with the ever so grand pathing in Madden. Like I said man, play the game however you want.

What I'm more curious about is whether real strategy works. So far no one has replied, instead focusing on the picks.

So again.... I listed several viable options, that should work to break bump and run coverage. Do any/all/none of the items I provided work in Madden?

Can anyone answer that question?
 
# 11 northface28 @ 11/19/09 01:30 PM
Picks happen in real life, it is an actual strategy used in real life. Picks, rub routes, whatever you want to call them they are viable options in Madden 10 and in the NFL. If you have an axe to grind with EA and their programming be my guest, but to minimize picks as a legit strategy is not a valid argument.
 
# 12 northface28 @ 11/19/09 01:34 PM
Ok,

1. Never heard of this
2. Borderline cheesy, snapping the ball when the motion player is not even set?
3. Hot route system does not have "arrow" routes, at least not to my knowledge
4. Gimme a break, in Madden?
5. Eh, this works OK.
6. Flats are clearly busted in the game and I try not to abuse it.
 
# 13 Valdarez @ 11/19/09 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by northface28
Picks happen in real life, it is an actual strategy used in real life. Picks, rub routes, whatever you want to call them they are viable options in Madden 10 and in the NFL. If you have an axe to grind with EA and their programming be my guest, but to minimize picks as a legit strategy is not a valid argument.
Can't tell you how tired I am of the 'you have an axe to grind' argument that has no bearing on the discussion at hand. This is the only statement that is not a viable argument. Stick to the topic at hand please.

It will be interesting to see how often these 'picks' (not pathing issues) occur. Is it 100% of the time? Random? Can someone lab it and run the same play 10 times or so and let us know the results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by northface28
Ok,

1. Never heard of this
2. Borderline cheesy, snapping the ball when the motion player is not even set?
3. Hot route system does not have "arrow" routes, at least not to my knowledge
4. Gimme a break, in Madden?
5. Eh, this works OK.
6. Flats are clearly busted in the game and I try not to abuse it.
1. Definitely an APF2K8 item, not sure what the equivalent is in Madden. Basically the ability to bust the the bump by the DB so the WR can effectively run their route.

2. Cheezy? So let me get this straight, you'll justify pathing issues int he game, and then cry cheeze on employing real strategy?

3. Don't remember mentioning 'hot routes'. Try setting up your audibles to employ the routes you need.

4. Yep. Should work.

5. Cool.

6. Understood, but I would still employ it against someone who staying in bump all game long. Hopefully this won't be as big an issue after the 2nd patch.
 
# 14 Valdarez @ 11/19/09 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMoody
Picks happen in real life, on both other defenders and refs. While no team should admit to using it, it happens. Its also illegal and rarely called.

However, in Madden you can do it every single play and it works flawlessly. Defenders like Charles Woodson and Al Harris both look for picks in real life to try to avoid them. As this video illustrates, in Madden they run blindly into them.

In the video Desean Jackson smokes Woodson because Woodson simply runs directly into McCoy at the snap of the ball. Not only does he trail the whole play after this but shortly before the catch is made turns on a dime and runs toward the line of scrimmage before pursing again.

The end result is Woodson is now 5 yards behind in man coverage, after a 10 yard route that had only one cut . That video makes future HOF'er Woodson looks like the worst DB in the world and an unproven, underachieving WR look like the HOF'er.

I wont debate that speed means everything in Madden and certainly Jackson has more speed but anybody thinking this play has any hint of realism needs to take a clearer look at how Woodson and Harris play in real life.

If anything that video illustrates how static pursuit and route angles should have been a thing of past a long time ago.
This is why I wanted to lab it. If it happens every single time, it's clearly a bug, and not part of the game. EA has gone out of their way to keep the game clean as can be, there's no way they programmed the ability to execute illegal moves into the game.
 
# 15 homeycool @ 11/19/09 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsquigg
And though picks are illegal, teams get away with it 80% of the time at least.
86.3% of all percentages are made up.
 
# 16 Valdarez @ 11/19/09 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeycool
86.3% of all percentages are made up.
No, it's 86% of all percentages are false.
 
# 17 northface28 @ 11/19/09 02:48 PM
This is on the verge of getting out of control. You tell me to stay on topic yet you bring up another game (APF2K8) that has zero to do with what we are debating? I digress, the "pick" is the only suitable way to offset the superhuman bump and run coverage. Is it phony? Yes. However it is the viable option users have to get other users out bump and run plays all game. In theory it makes perfect sense ("pick plays"), the problem is the way its carried out in the game. I am done expecting the world from EA sports and just take Madden for what it is.
 
# 18 jyoung @ 11/19/09 03:17 PM
In real life, I would say this is a legitimate strategy, but in Madden, it's definitely an exploit.

Reason being, this will get a receiver open against man coverage 100% of the time in Madden, whereas in real life, the DB would start looking for the pick and play it accordingly.

As for legit ways to beat press coverage in Madden, how about getting some guys on your team that have high release ratings instead of trying to beat it unrealistically with small, weak WRs?

Guys with a release rating over 80 will tear apart press coverage by getting off the line quickly and shoving the DB out of the way.
 
# 19 Valdarez @ 11/19/09 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wEEman33
In real life, I would say this is a legitimate strategy, but in Madden, it's definitely an exploit.

Reason being, this will get a receiver open against man coverage 100% of the time in Madden, whereas in real life, the DB would start looking for the pick and play it accordingly.

As for legit ways to beat press coverage in Madden, how about getting some guys on your team that have high release ratings instead of trying to beat it unrealistically with small, weak WRs?

Guys with a release rating over 80 will tear apart press coverage by getting off the line quickly and shoving the DB out of the way.
So the release rating is what indicates how well they can get away from bump coverage? Makes sense. Ideally every team should have at least one WR with a high release rate then. I know when I play against good players in APF2K8 who employ Bump Coverage, I like to have a really good HB for flats / screens and a Bump Buster WR (especially true if my opponent is good at manual coverage).

North, I just reference APF2K8 because it's what I know best, that's all. It's pretty much my point of reference for all football related discussions, and ironically it's where I actually learned the concepts and strategies employed in football. I haven't played Madden online, so I don't know what does or does not work against human opponents, which is why I listed options that I thought should work and asked for clarification on whether they do or do not work. Playing against a human opponent is always different / more difficult than playing against the AI. What works against one may not work against the other, and vice versa at times.
 
# 20 jyoung @ 11/19/09 03:41 PM
I try to stay away from the flats in this game because they are so cheap and broken, so yes, just throw to the one or two guys on your team who have high release ratings (most teams have at least one) and you will get your opponent out of press coverage very quickly unless he likes giving up easy pass plays over and over again.

Slant route + high release rating = 10 yards or more just about every time.

Or go for a streak/fade if there's no safety help over the top.
 

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