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FIFA Soccer 10 Preview

I can never go back to playing FIFA 09. That’s the thought that went through my head when I played through my first game of FIFA 10 at E3. I didn’t publicly say that at the time because I didn’t want it to be hyperbole for the sake of hyperbole. But after playing FIFA 10 for the second time, I don’t think it’s even hyperbole to say such a thing -- it’s just the truth.

The moment you take a step onto the practice arena pitch in FIFA 10, I truly believe you will feel the same way. I say that because of the 360-degree dribbling, tied in with the minute movements that come with full player control, really does change the game for the better. After all, when playing any sports game, having more control of your players is never a bad thing.

From within the practice arena you can also jump into a full-on practice game or create a canvas in your own set-piece studio.

When jumping into a real game, you should continue to notice other subtle improvements that will put FIFA 09 to bed. Some of those subtle improvements include the improved jostling system that lets you and another defender battle for a ball that switches possession multiple times, or the simple fact that CPU players actually do skill moves now.

Practice Arena

But let’s return to the practice arena for a moment so I can actually explain some of the new elements in FIFA 10. As I said previously, while dribbling around in the practice arena you can easily change the area into a space to create new custom set pieces.

When you jump into set pieces portion of the game, you will notice that the area outside the 18-yard box has been broken into eight quadrants. From within these eight quadrants you can create four set plays for each quadrant and save them for use during a real game.

It’s really easy to create the custom set pieces because you simply click on a player, press a single button to activate him, and then just move him around while an imaginary line traces his every move. You can even move around every one of your players if you choose, which I assume will create some instances of pure cheese, tactical brilliance and utter uselessness. Either way, you can save these set pieces like the custom tactics from FIFA 09, with the one caveat being that you cannot upload these set pieces online. It’s also up in the air at this point when it comes to whether or not you will be able to use your own custom set pieces in online games.

(Personally I don’t think you should be able to because it’s inevitable that some set piece will be figured out that just breaks the game and results in an insta-goal every time.)

Beyond the custom set pieces, there is also your own personal anger management counselor, also known as the expanded practice mode. Within this mode you can do 11-on-11 matches or 1-on-11 matches, and anything in between. You can play with friends in this mode as well, so it’s not just a single-player thing. I call this mode an anger management counselor because there are no fouls in this mode. So after a tough loss to your friend, why not go into the mode and mercilessly take each and every one of his players out with a malicious slide tackle? Or if the CPU just cheated to beat you in a big Manager mode game, why not go 11-on-1 and try to mutilate the lone poor striker who is out there fending for his survival?

Brazil Vs. USA Alternate Reality Simulator

Beyond the practice arena, there is -- shockingly enough -- still a regular game of soccer to play. Of course when I got to play the regular game, I immediately chose USA and faced off against Brazil in a Confederations Cup rematch. During this grueling 90-minute affair I was clearly outclassed, but thanks to some lucky breaks I still ended up winning 2-1. A late goal by Jozy Altidore was my saving grace, and the goal was also a good example of something that is new and good in FIFA 10.

In the 88th minute of the match, Jozy received a pass from Landon Donovan right outside the box. From here I was able to initiate a subtle movement on the left stick to get the ball from Jozy’s left foot to his stronger right foot -– all in one quick motion -- before ripping a shot into the net from just inside the 18-yard box. It was a brilliant individual effort that probably would not have been possible in FIFA 09. I say that because subtle movements in FIFA 09 usually lead to some twitchy moments that would cause your player to run sideways, rather than simply switch the ball between his own two feet.

The subtle movements tie into the 360-degree dribbling, which probably is something you really won’t miss until you try playing without it. For example I tried to go back to playing FIFA 09, but the problem was that I really felt like I had no control over my guys because there was only eight-way player movement.

Being able to do moves in tighter spaces, being able to watch players go on curved runs, or being able to notice that players are pushing the ball out to the side of them a bit are small things you don’t always think about when playing, yet the moment they are gone you can only think about how moronic it is that they are not in the game you are currently playing.
Shooting is another area where I noticed some cool subtle things. Besides watching the AI-controlled Kaka score a goal on a wicked low laser beam from outside the box, which ended up in the corner of the goal, pressure situations really stood out to me as well when shooting. During the Confederations Cup alt-reality game, I botched an easy scoring opportunity because I sailed a bouncing ball over the net while under duress. There was another time where a Brazilian player completely scuffed a shot and it went about two MPH right to my keeper’s feet. And there was another time where I completely sliced a shot because I did not settle it properly.

Now I realize you would miss shots like these in previous versions of the game, but it’s the amount of pressure you feel as a player during these situations that is important to note, which is partly because of the improved defense and partly because shooting has just been refined to take into effect how the ball is being played at the moment of impact. In other words, those damn real-world physics really hurt my ability to score.

These pressurized situations also tie into the states of urgency that are now in the game. For example during a situation where a player receives a pass and is is under no pressure, he will calmly settle the ball, which is replicated via an animation that is more lackadaisical in nature. However, during a more intense situation, a player will obviously be more focused and try to settle the ball quickly and get it out of there in a hurry.

The states of urgency do not directly tie into how defenders block shots this year, but the same urgency principle still applies. When the ball is in or around the box, you will really see more defenders throwing their bodies at the ball, and they will desperately try to not allow a clean shot. This could potentially be an important aspect because if Kaka’s strike from outside the box is a sign of things to come, then you need to worry more about long strikes in FIFA 10.

But as great as the Brazil vs. USA game was, a later game I played with Manchester City vs. Manchester United did still highlight some of what’s wrong with FIFA 10, specifically goalkeepers, skill moves and 50-50 balls.

The goalies are a worry at this point because there seems to be a lack of balance in terms of how they react to certain situations. They are definitely more aggressive, which is a good thing, but are probably too aggressive, and easy to abuse with a chip shot. Beyond that, while the goalies are now are better at recovering during rebound situations, I saw a few instances where they let in some shots that really should not have gone in – I watched one person play a game and during it his goalie got scored on when a ball simply rolled through the keeper’s legs. But while that five-hole anomaly can be chalked up as a bug that is still being ironed out in the 70-percent done version of FIFA 10 that was on display, it is a bit concerning that the goalies have gone from too passive to too aggressive because that just leads to a whole new set of problems.

Cristiano Ronaldo was another positive-negative portion to the Manchester vs. Manchester duel. It was great to see the AI-controlled Ronaldo doing skill moves, but at the same time it didn’t really seem like that was the virtual Ronaldo out there. It would have been great to see him do multiple step-over moves or other tricky stuff, but most of the skill moves he did were similar to things other players on the pitch were pulling off. I don’t mean to say Ronaldo should have moves that only he can pull off, but it would be great if Ronaldo had more of his signature style in the game, which I didn’t really witness. But regardless, I did at least fear him at all times.

The 50-50 balls are tricky because I actually like the amount of fighting for them that goes on while the ball is in the air, but there were way too many 50-50 balls that were simply falling to the ground before being touched. It was not even like the players were misjudging where the ball was going to be, they would just miss the ball when it dropped in from above. It’s another one of those things that can be tuned, but it was certainly a bit odd to see.

Beyond those negatives, fouls are really the big unknown at this point. You will see quick restarts this year (in other words no cut scene after a foul) but since I was told at the event that the fouls were essentially broken in the version of the game I was playing, it was hard to get a read on whether or not there will be more fouls during the course of a game, and thus more opportunities to try out some of those new custom set pieces. One thing I heard from line producer David Rutter that was good to hear was the fact that the FIFA team is trying to move further and further away from binary situations that will always result in something being a foul, which potentially means some games will be more physical and others will be more tightly officiated.

Bringing It Back

At this point I am a little concerned about the goalies, but otherwise I really think FIFA 10 is shaping up on the pitch. 360-degree dribbling, custom set pieces, pressure situations and subtle movements are important gameplay steps for this franchise –- ones that you all will appreciate as well.

I am also in no way a Manager mode aficionado, but there are 50 refinements/upgrades to this mode, and during my conversation with David Rutter, it seemed like this was just year one in a multi-year process of really overhauling the Manager mode. And really, that only makes sense when taking into consideration the fact that Rutter worked on Championship Manager, and creative director Gary Paterson previously worked on LMA Manager and Total Club Manager.

 

*Full disclosure: EA paid for my one-night hotel stay and airfare during this trip. While it did not influence what I wrote here, I always think it is important to be upfront with the visitors of this site whenever possible.*


FIFA Soccer 10 Videos
Member Comments
# 1 Whitesox @ 07/16/09 06:41 PM
Great preview chase! Lets hope those negatives were only a part of this build.
 
# 2 bronco92 @ 07/16/09 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Doctor
By the way,
Did they develop fifa 10 on the PS3 and are porting it tho the 360, or did they develop it on the 360 and are porting it to the PS3?
It doesn't work like that. There is central technology designed to work with both 360 and PS3's.
 
# 3 tescalumni2000 @ 07/16/09 11:53 PM
All I want to know, is if they are finally giving the USA some love? I am tired of seeing them rated so far below Mexico and other teams they consistently are ahead of in FIFA's rankings.

My GOD, can those blokes in charge of FIFA please stop hating on the USA? I would also like to see the MLS get the roster updates this year, but I know that won't happen.

IS USA BETTER?
 
# 4 thelems @ 07/17/09 12:00 AM
Comparatively, how does the Franchise--err, Manager Mode rank with other titles like PES and FM? This has always been FIFAs weak point relative to other titles (direct football competition and within other EA titles) and is probably the deciding factor on changing its public perception (and mine)...
 
# 5 Whitesox @ 07/17/09 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelems
Comparatively, how does the Franchise--err, Manager Mode rank with other titles like PES and FM? This has always been FIFAs weak point relative to other titles (direct football competition and within other EA titles) and is probably the deciding factor on changing its public perception (and mine)...
Manager mode will NEVER be at the level of FM. That is because FM makes the entire game manager mode, and spends all of their time on it. I believe EA has a manager title...right?
 
# 6 thelems @ 07/17/09 12:46 AM
I only bring that up because titles like MLB The Show (not EA), NCAA and Madden really seem to have this down. Maybe not to the extent of FM, but really damn close. I'm fairly sure you could pay 20-30 dollars just to play their franchise modes alone...
 
# 7 MK47 @ 07/17/09 04:38 PM
Some of those comments make me fear that they further tweak the game to make it more about tricks and up and down the pitch "joga bonito" that's impossible to defend rather than anything that has to do with the real game of football. So far FIFA is still a game with the odd 0-0 and 1-1 type games but the last 2 games (Euro 08 and FIFA 09) one could already detect a trend towards a less tactical, less solid game of football and more one aimed at those who want to dribble their way into the net.

But I guess a lot of the target audience isn't really very familiar with the actual sport.
 
# 8 ChaseB @ 07/17/09 05:03 PM
I don't think you have to worry about the developers straying from pursuing a realistic soccer sim.
 
# 9 Murkurial @ 07/17/09 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseB
I don't think you have to worry about the developers straying from pursuing a realistic soccer sim.
They already have with the move from FIFA 08 to 09. 09 is all about the super fast arcade-style play. If they've essentially gone back to what 08 was with better responsiveness, then maybe we can say that. If it isn't drastically different (read: slower) than 09 then we're still in arcade territory.

The target audience really only cares about highlight reel style play anyway but I hope for the soccer purists' sake, they actually try to make a sim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MK47
Some of those comments make me fear that they further tweak the game to make it more about tricks and up and down the pitch "joga bonito" that's impossible to defend rather than anything that has to do with the real game of football. So far FIFA is still a game with the odd 0-0 and 1-1 type games but the last 2 games (Euro 08 and FIFA 09) one could already detect a trend towards a less tactical, less solid game of football and more one aimed at those who want to dribble their way into the net.

But I guess a lot of the target audience isn't really very familiar with the actual sport.
Nice to know someone else has their head on straight.
 
# 10 thelems @ 07/17/09 05:52 PM
This sounds like the complaint from FIFAs 99-03 era. Pacing was a huge issue back then and the game always played too fast. People complained and complained. And since PES was sitting around demolishing FIFA internationally and in North America no one gave a damn, mediocrity and not much development was the norm for the FIFA series at the time.

I don't think that would happen again. A real developer, even a North American developer, should know, if not from the fan response the past ten years, that soccer is a game about the build up and developing the plays and not as often the individual feats.
 
# 11 Murkurial @ 07/17/09 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelems
This sounds like the complaint from FIFAs 99-03 era. Pacing was a huge issue back then and the game always played too fast. People complained and complained. And since PES was sitting around demolishing FIFA internationally and in North America no one gave a damn, mediocrity and not much development was the norm for the FIFA series at the time.

I don't think that would happen again. A real developer, even a North American developer, should know, if not from the fan response the past ten years, that soccer is a game about the build up and developing the plays and not as often the individual feats.
If you've played FIFA 09 then it's pretty obvious that there is no such build up play there as well. It's already happened again. Now if they go back to what 08 was, but keep the increased responsiveness and 360 dribbling, among other things, then we're all good.

The majority of those tossing all compliments EA's way either don't play soccer and only see the odd Sportscenter Top 10 Plays highlight reel of ridiculous volleyed goals (like Donovan and Eskandarian's from last night; which don't happen every other goal) or they don't watch enough soccer from leagues around the world. For anyone to even begin to call 09 a sim is a joke and from all accounts it doesn't look like the dev team seems to see a problem with what 09 brings to the table.

FIFA 08 saw you having to pick your passes, draw defenders out, and actually build up the play. In 09 the midfield is nonexistent. If that isn't rectified in FIFA 10, along with a whole host of other issues, the only people that are going to find this game good are those who honestly think that all the stepovers and 360s, and rainbow flicks, followed up by volleyed goals from 30 yards out, is what soccer is all about.
 
# 12 ChaseB @ 07/17/09 06:18 PM
Sounds like you have an issue with people who just aren't as "hardcore" as you, but either way, talking down to them won't help your cause.

The passing has been slowed down a tick for '10 but the game speed is the same as '09. I think you'll see more types of build ups for '10 since now there are things like curved runs. Also I definitely felt it was easier to contain and play defense on the AI in the middle of the pitch, so maybe that will help you out.

But it sounds like your issues with the game go much deeper, so I doubt this will appease you.
 
# 13 Murkurial @ 07/17/09 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseB
Sounds like you have an issue with people who just aren't as "hardcore" as you, but either way, talking down to them won't help your cause.

The passing has been slowed down a tick for '10 but the game speed is the same as '09. I think you'll see more types of build ups for '10 since now there are things like curved runs. Also I definitely felt it was easier to contain and play defense on the AI in the middle of the pitch, so maybe that will help you out.

But it sounds like your issues with the game go much deeper, so I doubt this will appease you.
Well it's not really an issue of being "hardcore" it's just having played soccer before and realizing that being able to chase a team around the pitch for 90 minutes with no visible fatigue, long assisted throughballs from your penalty area all the way to the midfield line, and a ton of other issues that you simply won't see in a real game, simply aren't realistic. It's sort of like what people went through with Madden 09 (which seems to have been fixed with Madden 10).

As for the talking down, I'm not trying to convert anyone because in all honesty the majority of those here aren't soccer-first guys and probably don't know as much about how the sport is really played as they do about basketball or football. Not really me trying to be an *******, just stating facts. I'm also the only one that feels this way. The guy I quoted said precisely what I and a ton of other people have been saying for a while now.

I'm just trying to make sure that people don't mistakenly call this game a "sim." When it isn't. Would you call those calling for all the changes to Madden 10 too "hardcore." Soccer isn't simply a recreational sport and I mean, just as some people want their basketball and football games to be realistic, so do other people with soccer.

Curved runs don't have anything to do with build up play. I'm talking about being able to pass around in the midfield, pick your spot, and draw the defense out of position without having to worry about (like in FIFA 09) the other team simply running all around the field, swarming one of your players with 3 guys and just knocking you all around the pitch. I'm not sure how much 09 you've played online but you'd have to check it out a bit more to maybe know what I'm talking about if you haven't already.

And no, not containing the defense in the middle, but even saying that must imply that the game is slowed down enough that you actually have to pass to the midfield in the first place.

If you want you can check out a few sites like FIFAsoccerblog.com and evo-web-co.uk, and even the "Online Changes" thread on EA's official FIFA forums if you wanna know more about the bevy of issues that a lot of people have with the game. It doesn't do much good either to try and explain away my problems with the game with a simple "you're too 'hardcore'" response.

I play FIFA with a guy that has never played soccer and hadn't even watched a single game until this past WC and now that he's into the sport even more even he can see the extreme difference between what he sees on the pitch and what he sees in the game. So I'm more than certain that it's not just me.
 
# 14 RamzaLugria @ 07/18/09 02:49 AM
Relax my man...
If you made it completely realistic (and yes I played the game for almost 20 years) it would not make a fun video game.
Most people probably play 8-15 minute halves, so that's about half an hour for a game. How many real games have score lines in that amount of time?
Very few. You would be begging for 0-0 or 1-0 scorelines every game.
Personally I thought 09 was much better than 08 primarily because it had better balance and through passes could actually work.
My biggest beef is with how barebones manager mode is and defensive organization is somewhat lacking.
I'm excited for FIFA 10 and can't wait. Peace!
 
# 15 tescalumni2000 @ 07/18/09 03:17 AM
Murkurial, calm the hell down. I also played soccer most of my life and it payed for my college. However, that means nothing, just like your rant! FIFA 09 was not perfect and by no means a 100 percent simulation. However it was the most fun I have ever had playing a sports video game.

BRING ON FIFA 10, I CANT WAIT.

But would someone please tell me if they finally make the USA better?
 
# 16 Murkurial @ 07/18/09 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamzaLugria
Relax my man...
If you made it completely realistic (and yes I played the game for almost 20 years) it would not make a fun video game.
Personally I thought 09 was much better than 08 primarily because it had better balance and through passes could actually work.
So would you say that same thing to the Madden heads who are always complaining about incredibly unrealistic things happening in Madden 08 and 09. Things which by all accounts have been addressed for Madden 10. They stress realism across the board and for the most part, people agree with them.

It just feels like a lot of people don't take the sport here seriously enough to really get concerned when they see things that they don't normally see when they're watching a game on television. Or at least they don't notice that what's happening in the game is a bit over the top.

Yes, games should be fun. But when you market a game as a sim and then it releases and you find that you can just fire up throughballs to Torres or Ronaldo, or ping the ball around the field, score ridicoulous bicycle kicks or 40 yard screamers everytime down the field, or even fire a single pass from your penalty box all the way to midfield, there's a problem. It's like playing Madden against someone and seeing a guy drop back 15 yards and then bomb it down the field, or just run around all day with a fast QB. Would you tell someone who complains about to just relax because the game is still fun?

It sort of sound like the same situation here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tescalumni2000
Murkurial, calm the hell down. I also played soccer most of my life and it payed for my college. However, that means nothing, just like your rant! FIFA 09 was not perfect and by no means a 100 percent simulation. However it was the most fun I have ever had playing a sports video game.
And before I say anything else about the quote that I placed in bold, why was it the most fun you've ever had playing a sports game?

And that's my point, it's marketed as a sim, and most people consider it to be one, but it isn't. But again, what exactly makes it so fun for you? Mind you, I'm not saying that I haven't enjoyed the game when I played it, but there are TON of problems that were introduced with 09, and that aren't really looking like they've been addressed in FIFA 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Doctor
FIFA 09 is not completely sim but neither is any other game.

I get what you’re saying about being able to build up and picking out your midfielder for individual passes but trying to argue that FIFA 09's gameplay wasn't fun, or was completely broken is just unwise.

You can build up in 09 and you can pick your passes to your midfielders. You have the freedom to do that. Now it may not be as easy to do as you and others would like it to be, but you CAN do it.

Also I have no idea why your convinced that FIFA 10 will be a trickfest of rainbows and crossovers. Again, it’s an unwise concern? The moves have never really been consistently, or annoyingly, effective in any FIFA itineration. With the added 360 control, it sounds like we'll finally be able to make subtle moves both on offense and defense.

Ultimately, Soccer, football, futbal, whatever you want to call it, is a very organic and creativity driven game. To capture it 100% correctly is impossible. Consequently, to complain about certain idiosyncrasies in the gamplay of THE MOST AUTHENTIC SOCCER VIDEOGAME IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND is kinda silly.

Just be glad that the development team that is responsible for the FIFA series is extremely motivated to create the best videogame soccer experience possible for guess who......us.
1) I can't find where I said that it'd be a game full of trick moves up and down the field. But the game CAN be fun, when you're allowed to play in more than one way. Sitting back and passing the ball around, build up play laden with quick short passes ala Arsenal or Barça, isn't possible. I don't want to play a game where my best bet is to put Ronaldo at striker, pass a throughball to him, and just run.

I don't know how much you've played the game online but by all accounts it is pretty broken. In fact, the 2nd defender pressure and the 100 aggression and pressure custom tactics effectively ruins the game online. If they beef up the manager mode I'll probably go back to it but most of the compaints in the "Online Changes" thread on EA's official site talks about precisely what I'm talking about here. And it's even got some of the game developers there who've talked with the guys and agreed on a number of fronts. So this isn't just the whining of one "hardcore" soccer fan.

2) I don't want it to be easy. I just want it to be possible and unless you use assisted passing (some of this might depend on what control scheme you use) it's impossible to hold the ball up in the midfield when players like Pirlo and Scholes aren't able to control the ball and hold it up in the midfield like they're supposed to be able to. Couple that with the fact that (like I said earlier) you can simply hold down the B button and 2 people at one player and just knock him off the ball with little to no consequence, as well as simply run around the pitch chasing the other team for the full 90 minutes without your players ever getting tired, and you're looking at a game that is completely devoid of a midfield and one that more or less forces you to play end to end for the entire game.

It isn't just me who feels this way, if you wanna check out FIFAsoccerblog.com or evo-web.co.uk to look at some past discussion it'll show you what I'm taking about since I'm apparently too "hardcore" according to Kyle Korver.

3) With any game it's difficult to capture the real life experience 100% but simple things like some of what I've mentioned above that come into play in the real game, aren't represented at all in this one. I'll find a list that I made on another site if you really wanna know where I, and a number of others, seem to think the game falls short but again, and I don't want to sound like an *******, if people think that what they see in '09 is realistic, there's a problem. I keep hearing "FUN" being tossed out left and right and while that's surely an important part of the game experience, it shouldn't be focused on at the expense of realism.

Like, what passing settings do you use, and do you only play offline against friends, or do you play online?

4) If you're saying it's the most authentic because of the kits and licenses, that's a little silly. The authenticity should be found on the pitch and while it's not a TERIBBLE representation of the game it is more or less, "pass to fast player and run," which if you've played soccer like a few of you seem to have done, you have to know that's not how every game plays (at least not for the entirety of the game). In FIFA it almost always is unless you play against the CPU who on anything below Professional, are idiots, and on anything above it, are superhuman.

5) And lastly, I guess it depends on who you define as "us." Us, apparently "hardcore" (read: just looking for a bit of realism) soccer fans, which honestly should be anyone who's played the sport at a level above AYSO, and then those who really like 5-4 scorelines, Ronaldo running through entire defenses and firing a 100 mph shot into the roof of the goal nearly everytime down the field.

Some of this might have to do with how you play the game as well.

I'm assuming that everyone hear just steers clear of the Madden and 2k9 threads because of all the complaints about realism there? This is site dedicated to sports gaming if I'm not mistaken. One which a Madden lead developer actually frequents to get feedback from guys that are REALLY into their game.

Again, don't wanna sound like a dick but...I go to sites that are dedicated to FIFA and I see tons of legitimate comlpaints about things that I and a ton of people that I play against see in this game every time that they play it and then I come to Operation Sports, which compared to the football and basketball games forums, has very little activity in the soccer game forum, and I see a very small number of people (usually some of the same ones that mostly play football and basketball games) singing FIFA's praises.
 
# 17 nuckles2k2 @ 07/18/09 03:12 PM
Uhhh I don't know about some of the statements being made in here...sure FIFA 09 can be fun for the fan who wants a fast paced highlight reel style of gameplay (isn't that why they make FIFA Street?) but it offers very little to the fan who wants to play the game in a realistic fashion. And it's kind of funny that every other sports game is striving for that, the most realistic representation of the sport, but apparently that doesn't apply to FIFA.....really folks?

If you're saying making a soccer video game as realistic as possible would take away all of the fun factor, then you can't really be a fan of the sport or passionate enough about the sport to have any sort of opinion when it comes to making a simulation of it. Not every soccer game in real life ends with a total of 7+ goals...those games are actually something of a rarity. Some people can actually appreciate the tactical battle of a 0-0 or 1-0 game...if you're not one of those people then chances are you don't watch soccer in real life (because you'd hate the majority of the games you see) and your viewpoints of the game shouldn't weigh heavier than those of a person who lives and breathes the game.

The assisted passing in FIFA is atrocious...the way it's described is that is assits on both the direction and power of the pass, but in reality it also moves players on the opposing team out of the way to make sure that the ball gets to it's target. Now if you're a person who benefits from this then of course you're not going to want to see it leave, but you have to understand that thinking that way is completely subjective and ignorant. If I chose to use semi or manual passing so I can lay the ball off for a teammate in a more realistic fashion then I should not be at a disadvantage because my passes don't cause your players to allow easily delflected balls to pass right by them.

Pressure and Aggression in CTT might as well be called Persistence and Anal Violation. It does not make sense that I should be running for my life because someone turned their P&A up in their CTT. If someone is going to chase you down non-stop and put pressure on you all over the pitch then you should be able to use their aggression against them (like when you run a screen play in football? use the other team's aggression against 'em...ridiculously simple concept.) But in FIFA that is pretty much impossible because for some reason...when the opposing team has their P&A up...they're in every passing lane (which isn't possible...a soccer pitch is huge) all of a sudden your players lose accuracy on their passes, your players can not trap the ball, all the while the other team is just running everywhere and smashing into you.

The ball physics are pretty bad and for some reason they said they're increasing the speed on passes from one side of the pitch to the other? If people were having a problem competeing those passes, that's because it was an errant pass....just like errant passes in Madden and NCAA get intercepted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Doctor
With the added 360 control, it sounds like we'll finally be able to make subtle moves both on offense and defense.
Is that an assumption you're making? Or can you back up that statement with some facts? Every article that I've read and interiew that I'e heard has said 360 Dribbling. So I don't know where you got the idea that defenders would be effected as well. That just sounds like you're just trying to dispell something that someone else said with no facts what so ever.

The game is taylored for the casual fan who just wants to win at all costs, and it ignores the people who just want to sit down and play a good game of soccer...win or lose. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...that's sports...that's strategy...but there is none in FIFA. Every game feels the same, garbage/cheap tactics have no counter...the only way to combat it is to do the same thing.


You guys CAN NOT seriously be saying that as long as you have fun with a game that you concede is not a sim...everything is ok? Where's the objectivity at guys? It seriously seems like someone too objectivity out back and murdered him these days. Everyone only cares about their subjective view point and it's like "**** everyone else."

A sim game is a realistic representation of the sport. In a sim game you can do whatever you want...it just doesn't mean it's going to work. In real life, players can close down all day and put pressure on everyone, and sprint full speed all game without worrying about keeping something in the tank for later in the game. The only reason why we don't see it is because:

1) they're human and can get tired (fatigue anyone?) and

2) the other team can counter that, and in all likelyhood grab a victory.

That. Is. Not. The. Case. With. FIFA 09.
 
# 18 Mo @ 07/18/09 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murkurial
So would you say that same thing to the Madden heads who are always complaining about incredibly unrealistic things happening in Madden 08 and 09. Things which by all accounts have been addressed for Madden 10. They stress realism across the board and for the most part, people agree with them.

It just feels like a lot of people don't take the sport here seriously enough to really get concerned when they see things that they don't normally see when they're watching a game on television. Or at least they don't notice that what's happening in the game is a bit over the top.

Yes, games should be fun. But when you market a game as a sim and then it releases and you find that you can just fire up throughballs to Torres or Ronaldo, or ping the ball around the field, score ridicoulous bicycle kicks or 40 yard screamers everytime down the field, or even fire a single pass from your penalty box all the way to midfield, there's a problem. It's like playing Madden against someone and seeing a guy drop back 15 yards and then bomb it down the field, or just run around all day with a fast QB. Would you tell someone who complains about to just relax because the game is still fun?

It sort of sound like the same situation here.



And before I say anything else about the quote that I placed in bold, why was it the most fun you've ever had playing a sports game?

And that's my point, it's marketed as a sim, and most people consider it to be one, but it isn't. But again, what exactly makes it so fun for you? Mind you, I'm not saying that I haven't enjoyed the game when I played it, but there are TON of problems that were introduced with 09, and that aren't really looking like they've been addressed in FIFA 10.



1) I can't find where I said that it'd be a game full of trick moves up and down the field. But the game CAN be fun, when you're allowed to play in more than one way. Sitting back and passing the ball around, build up play laden with quick short passes ala Arsenal or Barça, isn't possible. I don't want to play a game where my best bet is to put Ronaldo at striker, pass a throughball to him, and just run.

I don't know how much you've played the game online but by all accounts it is pretty broken. In fact, the 2nd defender pressure and the 100 aggression and pressure custom tactics effectively ruins the game online. If they beef up the manager mode I'll probably go back to it but most of the compaints in the "Online Changes" thread on EA's official site talks about precisely what I'm talking about here. And it's even got some of the game developers there who've talked with the guys and agreed on a number of fronts. So this isn't just the whining of one "hardcore" soccer fan.

2) I don't want it to be easy. I just want it to be possible and unless you use assisted passing (some of this might depend on what control scheme you use) it's impossible to hold the ball up in the midfield when players like Pirlo and Scholes aren't able to control the ball and hold it up in the midfield like they're supposed to be able to. Couple that with the fact that (like I said earlier) you can simply hold down the B button and 2 people at one player and just knock him off the ball with little to no consequence, as well as simply run around the pitch chasing the other team for the full 90 minutes without your players ever getting tired, and you're looking at a game that is completely devoid of a midfield and one that more or less forces you to play end to end for the entire game.

It isn't just me who feels this way, if you wanna check out FIFAsoccerblog.com or evo-web.co.uk to look at some past discussion it'll show you what I'm taking about since I'm apparently too "hardcore" according to Kyle Korver.

3) With any game it's difficult to capture the real life experience 100% but simple things like some of what I've mentioned above that come into play in the real game, aren't represented at all in this one. I'll find a list that I made on another site if you really wanna know where I, and a number of others, seem to think the game falls short but again, and I don't want to sound like an *******, if people think that what they see in '09 is realistic, there's a problem. I keep hearing "FUN" being tossed out left and right and while that's surely an important part of the game experience, it shouldn't be focused on at the expense of realism.

Like, what passing settings do you use, and do you only play offline against friends, or do you play online?

4) If you're saying it's the most authentic because of the kits and licenses, that's a little silly. The authenticity should be found on the pitch and while it's not a TERIBBLE representation of the game it is more or less, "pass to fast player and run," which if you've played soccer like a few of you seem to have done, you have to know that's not how every game plays (at least not for the entirety of the game). In FIFA it almost always is unless you play against the CPU who on anything below Professional, are idiots, and on anything above it, are superhuman.

5) And lastly, I guess it depends on who you define as "us." Us, apparently "hardcore" (read: just looking for a bit of realism) soccer fans, which honestly should be anyone who's played the sport at a level above AYSO, and then those who really like 5-4 scorelines, Ronaldo running through entire defenses and firing a 100 mph shot into the roof of the goal nearly everytime down the field.

Some of this might have to do with how you play the game as well.

I'm assuming that everyone hear just steers clear of the Madden and 2k9 threads because of all the complaints about realism there? This is site dedicated to sports gaming if I'm not mistaken. One which a Madden lead developer actually frequents to get feedback from guys that are REALLY into their game.

Again, don't wanna sound like a dick but...I go to sites that are dedicated to FIFA and I see tons of legitimate comlpaints about things that I and a ton of people that I play against see in this game every time that they play it and then I come to Operation Sports, which compared to the football and basketball games forums, has very little activity in the soccer game forum, and I see a very small number of people (usually some of the same ones that mostly play football and basketball games) singing FIFA's praises.
First of all no need to attack Chase.

Second, I don't see your complaint about the not building able to build attacks/work through the midfield/hold the ball, at least in offline play. I don't play online so I can't confirm/deny that, I'll take your word for it. I'm assuming online play like any games is going to be full of cheesers who are going to try to wins at any cost.

Third, before you go ahead and question my credentials(which you probably will) on the sports go ahead and ask around these boards to get your answer.

Fourth, Fifa 09 had issue, Fifa 10 will have issue as well. I think most developers try their best to correct issue that are pointed out to them. Will some be overlooked, yeah they are, but I think more will be addressed than overlooked.

When you play Fifa 10 and the issue are still there, come back and point them out, that's the only way its going to be fixed.

Finally, it's a Video Game it's never, ever going to be close to 100% realistic.
 
# 19 Murkurial @ 07/18/09 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miget33
First of all no need to attack Chase.

Second, I don't see your complaint about the not building able to build attacks/work through the midfield/hold the ball, at least in offline play. I don't play online so I can't confirm/deny that, I'll take your word for it. I'm assuming online play like any games is going to be full of cheesers who are going to try to wins at any cost.

Third, before you go ahead and question my credentials(which you probably will) on the sports go ahead and ask around these boards to get your answer.

Fourth, Fifa 09 had issue, Fifa 10 will have issue as well. I think most developers try their best to correct issue that are pointed out to them. Will some be overlooked, yeah they are, but I think more will be addressed than overlooked.

When you play Fifa 10 and the issue are still there, come back and point them out, that's the only way its going to be fixed.

Finally, it's a Video Game it's never, ever going to be close to 100% realistic.
1) Well, the "hardcore" comment was both inaccurate and unnecessary.

2) That would explain that, but much like what Madden is apparently going to with the game both offline and on, the cheesers should be able to try it all they want, but it shouldn't work. I'm not talking about the incredibly cheap things like shooting from the kickoff or hitting a corner all the way to the opposite post knowing that the goalie won't react. If that happens to me I'll just quit the game. In general EVERYONE who plays online abuses the pressure and aggression and there's a fundamental flaw in the game when there is precisely ONE way to play the game that will more often than not work everytime, unless your opponent is just as good at playing that way as you are. And as for offline, it could be fun for some, but then those guys might not know just how much the MM is lacking compared to the last-gen versions of FIFA. But looking at the fact that online seems to be where everything is headed (and also where EA seems to be putting a lot of it's focus for FIFA, at the expense of any real strides in the MM) it's frustrating that the gameplay has effectively been tailored to those who want to play that way. I'm assuming you play against the CPU then because all of what I've mentioned is possible offline against a human opponent as well.

3) Wasn't going to say anything. And I wouldn't know who to ask so you could just tell me. But again, you didn't really say anything in your post for me to question.

4) Every game has issues, but when those issues are being brought up by the majority of the community day in and day out and then you read a listen to all the developer interviews. Speak directly to developers about the changes and come to the realization that the direction that their moving the game in might not be one that's very conducive to realistic play, then there's cause for concern. Every game nowadays pushes realism in all aspects. Including FIFA. Sure the game can be fun, if you like running with the fastest player and firing shots in from impossible angles, but it isn't real. If you call a game a sim and little things like players getting tired when chasing all over the pitch aren't fixed (this was a problem in 08 and was simply exacerbated in 09; the game isn't that fast ALL THE TIME), that's a little misleading.

4) Do you also tell this to the guys that complain about Madden, NCAA, and NBA 2k9? Cuz that's ALL I see on this forum. Complaint after complain after complaint and oh look, the devs are listening. I don't see that many complaints for FIFA here, but if you're seriously interested in seeing what the majority of the FIFA community has a problem with in regards to this game I will once again direct you to FIFAsoccerblog.com or evo-web-co.uk, or even the "Online Changes" thread on EA's official community site. I have nothing to do with either of these (as advertising your own site might be frowned upon).

I just feel like if you watch enough soccer, you'll realize that alot of what is possible in FIFA isn't possible ALL THE TIME in real life. In FIFA it's the only way to play and in a real match it'll get ya in trouble most of the time. Like guy said after me, if people are about fun at the expense of realism, FIFA Street is the way to go. And if you somehow think 09 was a realistic depiction of soccer then I don't know what to tell you. 08 had it flaws (responsiveness) and 09 fixed that in some regard, but it added a whole host of ridiculously arcadey elements as well. It seems like FIFA has decided to try and grab the casual audience more than those who actually enjoy what soccer really is most of the time (i.e., not 10-9 scorelines, rabonas, Cronaldo dribbling through entire teams, 40-yd screamers, etc., etc.).

Madden seems to wanna go in that direction now and people are praising that guy Ian Cummings for it. Suddenly someone wants some realism in a soccer game (which has been plagued by more or less the same exploits and shortcomings for a few iterations now) and there's a problem.

Fun doesn't equal Realistic. Doesn't have to be 100% realistic but it's weird that people are really impressed with where Madden is headed (towards what you see in the game being what you see on the field) and can't seem to see where FIFA (specifically 09) fails in that regard.
 
# 20 Murkurial @ 07/18/09 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Doctor
You guys with these page long lists of issues you have about FIFA are seriously hyper critical. I'd also like to bet you have no experience or knowledge of how you actually build a game of FIFA's complexity.

While no game will ever be perfect I think we can at least feel confident about the direction FIFA's going, the positives FIFA offers and the commitment to fix ongoing issues by the FIFA development team
I forgot that this wasn't a forum to discuss issues with sports videogames. Specifically games that preach realism.

I keep asking, but nobody answer the question about what you think about the guys who've been preaching realism for Madden and now having Ian come here and actually talk to them, agree with them, and try to make sweeping changes to the game? Are they also hyper critical? And should they just shut up because ya now...Madden is just a game?

And to the last point, you're happy with the super fast speed and all the other ridiculous things that are possible in this game that I've mentioned in previous posts?

In 08 the slower pace made passing (and consequently your midfield) more of a factor, and now in 09 you could just as easily pass up to Ronaldo and just run, run and run. MK47 mentioned it as well. Right after FIFA 08 and with the introduction of Euro 2008 you could see a change in the direction of the game. More towards fun, and less towards realism.

Now if you only play offline against the CPU on a certain difficulty, usually Professional and below, then sure, it might be easy to pass around the midfield but by the same token, they normally don't press at all or even leave there spot on the field until you get close to them. At that point, they too also employ the run straight at a guy method of dispossession and knock you over.

4-4 games, like the two games that 'Pool played against both Arsenal and Spurs this past season, are entirely possible, but they're rare. In FIFA they happen all the time. You can have them, especially if people don't play defense, but you should also be able to slow the game down and dictate the flow of the game, which is sometimes possible if your opponent doesn't use the pressure and aggression to no end. But that's all FIFA 09 is for the most part.

And to be honest, drinking the David Rutter kool-aid might not be the best idea. He seems to say what he thinks people want to hear and while I think there are some guys on the team who genuinely want to make a realistic game, there's a clear shift from tactical to arcade-style play.

Here's a question that might, for me, explain a bit. First have you played FIFA 08? And if you have and can recall taking FKs do you see any issue with the change in the flight of the ball from FIFA 08 to FIFA 09?

To that emboldened point, I don't have any experience making videogames. But I do have eyes and I did play FIFA 08 (produced by Joe Booth) and I can see a CLEAR difference in both the speed and overall tactical nature of both games. A lot of people can see this shift. Simply building on 08 would be fine, but the simple fact that they are now slowing the game down again (when it didn't need speeding up in the first place) kind of points to them making a mistake.

It's also no coincidence that one the game sped up to the point that end-to-end was the only way to play online, suddenly FIFA 09 is garnering critical acclaim and those who normally don't care for soccer, play it all the time apparently. That might tell you a little bit right there.

And you should probably stop making it seem like I'm the ONLY one that feels this way. I've told you where to go if you wanna read up on a some of the other complaints. These aren't HIGH STANDARDS at all. I'm not asking for everyone's hair and face to be accurate. I'm not asking for blades of grass to be flutter in the wind and be clearly discernable. I'm not asking for crazy **** like kits getting dirty, better texture on the shirt, authentic Premier League lettering, player breath showing on cold days.

Something simple like, if a guy run at you like an ******* and leaves space to pass to your man, I would like to be able to pass it to him with little to no problem. There really is too much to enumerate here but that's just one small problem. Offline I can't really get into but compare it to last-gen FIFA (and it has nothing to do with the engine as MM is simply options, stat-tracking, realism of fixtures, tournaments, etc.) it's sorely lacking.

As for FIFA being the most realistic experience to date, I think if you go back to what 08 did you might change your mind. Sure players are marginally more responsive, but on the whole they just made the game faster overall.
 

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