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Madden NFL 17 News Post



The 4 Verts Podcast checked in with Madden Creative Director Rex Dickson to talk a variety of topics relating to Madden NFL 17.

Check out the topics they discussed:

Quote:
"-Thoughts on stumbling out of the blocks with EA Access and Run/Pass Glitch.

-The patch process and how they approached it.

-Shift from how they define success in a launch.As they move from review based goals to core sentiment feelings.

-"Crowd sourced" development and EA's approach, specifically Madden's approach, to the player first mentality.

-Rex explains the struggle to balance SIM, Casual, and Competitive gamers.

-The tuning process, when to hold steady versus making changes, and how data drives these decisions. Rex specifically addressed the upcoming tuning on the fatigue bug and why it occurred.

-How,and why, the Nano Detection System came to be.

-Competitive gaming, and it's place in Madden's growth going forward.

-.....I also ask him why my WR1 is on the left and not matched up against CB1 by default, and his explanation (kind of)."

Be sure to listen to the podcast and add your thoughts below!

Game: Madden NFL 17Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 16 - View All
Member Comments
# 1 snc237 @ 09/26/16 06:11 PM
Good podcast. Where OS interviews with ea lol
 
# 2 capa @ 09/27/16 07:57 AM
What I took away from this was that Rex cannot hold off corporate and marketing. They will get the kind of game they want...and make no mistake about it, that is NOT a sim experience. They want the game to cater to tourney and casuals...not the sim crowd.

This is evident in the changes that have recently been applied through the tuner. The bottom line is, no matter how hard Rex pushes his hands are tied because when you have corporate investing more than $1 million in tourneys, he has to produce the kind of game and experience that they want. It's not about sim football..it's about fun, exciting, semi-arcade type football where stick skills and knowledge of exploits will determine a winner.

Guys, let's face it...Madden will never get to the point we want it to. Ever. It can't under these parameters. Rex has good ideas and intentions, but he can't execute due to these facts.

C
 
# 3 Tonic @ 09/27/16 08:52 AM
I haven't listened to this yet but my stance on sim vs. casual is this - both crowds can be pleased, that's why we have sliders. I've brought up the same point in the NHL forums for years so I'll keep this short.

EA is a business whose primary goal is to make money. They make more money by marketing this game to the casual football fan who wants to see sweet one-hand catches in double coverage and huge hits than to the hardcore fan who wants offensive line injuries and knows the difference between the A gap and the B gap. There are simply more casual gamers in existence than hardcore gamers, and this applies to every video game out there. The company making the game will simply make more sales by appealing to a wider audience than the niche hardcore fans.

However, by having sliders, we are able to tweak the game to our liking (for the most part). You also have to remember that most of us here are of the hardcore variety. So while the majority of people here might have gripes about certain aspects of the game, we are still the minority overall.

Wrapping this up, I like to think that most of the devs are more like us than they are the casual fans. As apparently alluded to in the podcast, the executives/marketing team make the majority of the decisions to influence the final product, which makes sense from a financial perspective. The silver lining to this is as the product makes more sales, they can have more people working on the game overall. Even if they spend 80% working on solely online features, they're still spending 20% of their time working on offline features for us hardcore fans.

With that said, I'm really happy with where we're at in gaming. I haven't played it very much the last 5 years or so, but Madden is the best it's ever been. NHL is by far the best it's ever been. Plenty of good games to keep me occupied and having fun for a long time
 
# 4 DeuceDouglas @ 09/27/16 11:08 AM
Listening to Rex talk about the O-Line as being unsexy and how hard of a sell it is to marketing has me really worried. It is by far the most poorly represented aspect in the game and the fact that it's in its current state with so much time seemingly dedicated to it over the past few years is frustrating. It's in need of a complete overhaul but with the way he talks about it, it doesn't seem like that's something that will be able to happen anytime soon.

Maybe it's just me but I also got the impression that the Nano Blitz Detection may not be as much a bandaid as it is a longer term fix which is really disappointing. If they can clean it up and have it trigger properly then it shouldn't really be an issue but with line play in such an awful state, it sucks to have to potentially deal with long term bandaids.

As for the tourney vs. sim stuff, I think it's pretty clear where the game is headed and has been heading the last few years. Part of what has to be frustrating for the sim crowd is the fact that they've been told for years and years now that they're such a small minority but now it seems as if the game is attempting to cater to the minority of a minority of a minority. And while it's completely reasonable with the amount of exposure it's likely to bring to the game, the bottom line is still going to be that those two sides want drastically different games. One side is fine and embraces the unknown and unpredictable while the other vehemently wants stick skills and user input to supersede everything. And while the emphasis on this tourney style will undoubtedly benefit the game in a certain capacity by finding and eliminating true game-breaking exploits, it's also going to hinder certain aspects of the game that can be deemed "random" or uncompetitive from moving forward.

It's not about sim being "holier than thou" or superior to the tourney style, it just comes down to what you want in the game. I want to see all play styles accommodated and they have the tools available to do so in a much better fashion, they're just implemented poorly and/or poorly executed. It also creates this constant contradiction with like how he talks about the kick meter and he was so passionate about not keeping an easier option and forcing players to adapt as to not "half-***" it. But then when it comes to his vision of a "Authentic Football Simulation" those same concessions aren't taken because the tourney crowd wouldn't like it or it'd be a hard sell to the casuals, etc. Obviously a lot of that comes from above Rex's head but it leaves an extremely muddy view of what they're trying to do at times.
 
# 5 charter04 @ 09/27/16 11:55 AM
Great interview. Rex said some things I assumed where true but, it's good to hear be confirmed.

Some of it I don't like. Some of it I do like. At least he's being up front.

There are positives and negatives about Esports.

Let's face it Madden has been made for competitive gaming forever.

The only difference is now its getting so big that it's forcing them to look at exploits and glitches because of how bad it looks on national tv.

That's good in a way because more time is spent on things that need fixing.

The bad part of it really depends on what side you're on. I'm on the side of wanting random results like inaccurate passes. Or drops. So I'm not for that being taken away (barely there anyway).

If they would just include sliders for everything. Kind of like 2k does. Make them work. We could tune the game exactly how we want for offline play and franchise mode or online franchise.

I can't understand why we are still stuck with the limited number of sliders for a sport that needs the most.


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# 6 335TDC @ 09/27/16 01:54 PM
Esports should be limited to Tecmo Bowl, Double Dribble, RBI Baseball, and Cyberball.

Oh! and Nintendo Pro Wrestling.
 
# 7 fistofrage @ 09/27/16 02:37 PM
I've been begging for this for years now, but if I could get just a fumble slider that would only impact the probability of fumbles and nothing else, a QBA that was only for throw accuracy and a field goal accuracy slider that actually worked and good sim stats for the franchise engine, I would be happy.

Its beyond frustrating not seeing any non-Qb fumbles because the fumble slider is the running back ability slider and lowering that just makes a mess of the game. The QBA slider is like the entire offenses total awareness slider. And the FGA slider for years now doesn't work, it causes automatic shanks when put below 30 and FGs are way too easy.

Then they can tune the game however they want and I can use sliders to customize my own gameplay.
 
# 8 tmart14 @ 09/27/16 04:35 PM
The online aspect of video games has done some damage lately. It is ruining the sim aspect of sports games, it has made every shooter a no or pitiful campaign multiplayer, and all RPGS must now be MMO style.

I would be perfectly ok if online gaming was removed from the industry entirely


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# 9 CM Hooe @ 09/27/16 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmart14
The online aspect of video games has done some damage lately. It is ruining the sim aspect of sports games, it has made every shooter a no or pitiful campaign multiplayer, and all RPGS must now be MMO style.
Online gaming is one of the best things to happen to video games, period. It's enabled the assembly of communities around games in specific and as a whole and increased interest in what used to be dismissed as a loser-teenage-male-living-in-a-basement activity. In turn the increased interest has earned gaming more popularity and acceptance in the mainstream as a legitimate artistic medium.

The design-by-numbers problem you allude to in AAA occurs regardless whether games have online functionality. That's entirely a function of a publisher controlling the purse strings, being risk-averse, and wanting to ensure return on their investment. You'd still have game publishers analyzing industry trends and copycatting successful mechanics and designs if online gaming didn't exist. Heck, this practice dates back to at least the 1990s; all single-player PC first-person shooter games used to be dismissed as "DOOM clones".

On a similar note, as I alluded to in other threads - the demonizing of the tourney crowd as an enemy of "sim" (whatever that is anymore) feels entirely misplaced to me. They ultimately want the same thing we do - a more authentic NFL experience from Madden.
 
# 10 fistofrage @ 09/27/16 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Online gaming is one of the best things to happen to video games, period. It's enabled the assembly of communities around games in specific and as a whole and increased interest in what used to be dismissed as a loser-teenage-male-living-in-a-basement activity. In turn the increased interest has earned gaming more popularity and acceptance in the mainstream as a legitimate artistic medium.

The design-by-numbers problem you allude to in AAA occurs regardless whether games have online functionality. That's entirely a function of a publisher controlling the purse strings, being risk-averse, and wanting to ensure return on their investment. You'd still have game publishers analyzing industry trends and copycatting successful mechanics and designs if online gaming didn't exist. Heck, this practice dates back to at least the 1990s; all single-player PC first-person shooter games used to be dismissed as "DOOM clones".

On a similar note, as I alluded to in other threads - the demonizing of the tourney crowd as an enemy of "sim" (whatever that is anymore) feels entirely misplaced to me. They ultimately want the same thing we do - a more authentic NFL experience from Madden.
I disagree with that last statement. Seems to me they want the best stick skills to prevail always. No random occurences. Fumbles and penalties that are not directly caused by the player they are controlling is taboo.
 
# 11 CM Hooe @ 09/27/16 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fistofrage
I disagree with that last statement. Seems to me they want the best stick skills to prevail always. No random occurences. Fumbles and penalties that are not directly caused by the player they are controlling is taboo.
A point of difference on one facet of the discussion - user control vs ratings and random events - does not dismiss the fact that the tourney crowd wants agreeably-unrealistic stuff like nano blitzes eliminated from the game. The tourney crowd welcomed gap play and pattern-matching zones in Madden NFL 17 just as much as we here at OS did. Their ideal is winning games in Madden by playing real football.

Heck, one thing that would probably be a tourney player's dream would be some sort of defensive scheme builder. In this hypothetical defensive scheme builder, you the user would not only pick your formations, plays, and personnel groupings, but also you would customize every aspect of your defense - whether your corners play best-on-best or stick to specific sides, whether you align your safeties always to weak/strong side or to boundary/field side, how you set up your blitzes (do you want to blitz weak side? strong side? field side? boundary side? away from a specific OL? towards a specific OL? at a weak RB in pass-protection?).

A lot of the tourney-style players are also YouTube personalities, and anything a single tourney player can do to make his playing style of Madden distinct, unique, and successful compared to another competitor's style gives his channel and brand an advantage over his peers. Thus, they'd eat something like this up - they'd fill their channels with videos of their setups, best players to fit their schemes, etc. etc. all in the context of real-life football concepts.

Meanwhile, members of the sim community would kill for that level of detail and authenticity on the field Madden, would they not? The two groups have different motivations, but they share same goals - a better and more authentic Madden football game.
 
# 12 tmart14 @ 09/27/16 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Online gaming is one of the best things to happen to video games, period. It's enabled the assembly of communities around games in specific and as a whole and increased interest in what used to be dismissed as a loser-teenage-male-living-in-a-basement activity. In turn the increased interest has earned gaming more popularity and acceptance in the mainstream as a legitimate artistic medium.

The design-by-numbers problem you allude to in AAA occurs regardless whether games have online functionality. That's entirely a function of a publisher controlling the purse strings, being risk-averse, and wanting to ensure return on their investment. You'd still have game publishers analyzing industry trends and copycatting successful mechanics and designs if online gaming didn't exist. Heck, this practice dates back to at least the 1990s; all single-player PC first-person shooter games used to be dismissed as "DOOM clones".

On a similar note, as I alluded to in other threads - the demonizing of the tourney crowd as an enemy of "sim" (whatever that is anymore) feels entirely misplaced to me. They ultimately want the same thing we do - a more authentic NFL experience from Madden.


I agree with some of those. However, overall video game quality has been going downhill since the early 2000s. Is the increased popularity due to online capabilities? Most likely. Sure, that has allowed it to become mainstream, but the cost was that these games now cater to everyone, even though they might play it for only the online part.

Could just be old man grumbling, though. Hahaha


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# 13 charter04 @ 09/27/16 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmart14
The online aspect of video games has done some damage lately. It is ruining the sim aspect of sports games, it has made every shooter a no or pitiful campaign multiplayer, and all RPGS must now be MMO style.

I would be perfectly ok if online gaming was removed from the industry entirely


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm with you man. I hate being able to play friends on the other side of the country in a game of Madden. I also hate being to play in a 32 man franchise for 4-7 seasons and eliminating all the silly stuff the CPU does.

Online play is such a drag


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
# 14 4thQtrStre5S @ 09/27/16 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
A point of difference on one facet of the discussion - user control vs ratings and random events - does not dismiss the fact that the tourney crowd wants agreeably-unrealistic stuff like nano blitzes eliminated from the game. The tourney crowd welcomed gap play and pattern-matching zones in Madden NFL 17 just as much as we here at OS did. Their ideal is winning games in Madden by playing real football.

Heck, one thing that would probably be a tourney player's dream would be some sort of defensive scheme builder. In this hypothetical defensive scheme builder, you the user would not only pick your formations, plays, and personnel groupings, but also you would customize every aspect of your defense - whether your corners play best-on-best or stick to specific sides, whether you align your safeties always to weak/strong side or to boundary/field side, how you set up your blitzes (do you want to blitz weak side? strong side? field side? boundary side? away from a specific OL? towards a specific OL? at a weak RB in pass-protection?).

A lot of the tourney-style players are also YouTube personalities, and anything a single tourney player can do to make his playing style of Madden distinct, unique, and successful compared to another competitor's style gives his channel and brand an advantage over his peers. Thus, they'd eat something like this up - they'd fill their channels with videos of their setups, best players to fit their schemes, etc. etc. all in the context of real-life football concepts.

Meanwhile, members of the sim community would kill for that level of detail and authenticity on the field Madden, would they not? The two groups have different motivations, but they share same goals - a better and more authentic Madden football game.
I know I would like more defensive customization abilities; the same for offense too.

I partially agree with how much would be shared on Youtube; I think many basic play construction and adjustment tutorials will be presented on Youtube, but many will be presented in a commercial format for their e-book tutorial, and others won't even be shared, fr good reason though, as they will be those plays the user relies on most and is their main scheme on both sides of the ball...

I do hope will see see play editors and such in the future..Of course, safeguards need to be in place to prevent AI busting plays, and that is the trick/hurdle to customization.
 
# 15 tmart14 @ 09/27/16 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by charter04
I'm with you man. I hate being able to play friends on the other side of the country in a game of Madden. I also hate being to play in a 32 man franchise for 4-7 seasons and eliminating all the silly stuff the CPU does.

Online play is such a drag


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha. Well it's just my opinion, and probably a wrong one.

I live in a part of the country where video games are still considered for the "basement dwelling losers" even among people my age (28) and younger. So I grew up playing single player games (sports games, RPGs, etc.) and I will admit to being worried that my favorite types of games (CFM for example) are going to be gone in the next couple of years.


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# 16 charter04 @ 09/27/16 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmart14
Haha. Well it's just my opinion, and probably a wrong one.

I live in a part of the country where video games are still considered for the "basement dwelling losers" even among people my age (28) and younger. So I grew up playing single player games (sports games, RPGs, etc.) and I will admit to being worried that my favorite types of games (CFM for example) are going to be gone in the next couple of years.


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I'm 37. So I spent the late 80's until the early 2000's without online play.

I still love playing my NES, SNES, Genesis, and others, but, I love online play. I would have loved to play friends on Tecmo Super Bowl online back when it was all we played.

I understand where you're coming from but, I don't think online has hurt games. Just my opinion


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# 17 tmart14 @ 09/27/16 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by charter04
I'm 37. So I spent the late 80's until the early 2000's without online play.

I still love playing my NES, SNES, Genesis, and others, but, I love online play. I would have loved to play friends on Tecmo Super Bowl online back when it was all we played.

I understand where you're coming from but, I don't think online has hurt games. Just my opinion


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No problem man, we all have our own opinions. If any of my friends played video games, I would most likely share your opinion.


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# 18 Brooke2011 @ 09/27/16 09:18 PM
EA should gear the game difficulty to competitive , sim, casual .
Basically in competitive mode the game does not use player ratings. It goes by how the actual player performs. In sim, ratings and sliders come into play. In casual , player ratings matter but sliders have no effect or boost to the CPU or user. I think this would at least guide EA and Rex to satisfy all of the Madden community.

I personally think Sim is where the main focus should be. One thing I would like to see going forward is gauging the speed of the game to the real nfl. This means having the drop back speed of the QB not be the same as other animations like straight ahead running, jumping and tackling. An example would be this: Madden offers 5 game speeds: Very slow, slow, normal, fast and very fast. Personally fast and very fast are unrealistic. If I had to break down madden, it would go like this . QB drop back and line play looks the best on the very slow speed. Throwing and catching looks the best on the slow speed and running and tackling looks the best on the normal speed . If you could incorporate all three speeds into a " sim" style game then Madden would really shine
 
# 19 T4VERTS @ 09/27/16 09:47 PM
I am out of town for work right now, but I'll write my own observations from giving the interview as well as other conversations I have had with Rex and other developers.

I will say this though, as a sim gamer I am fully comfortable with our position in the hierarchy. We have the most important guys on our side and in the end we will get what we need. Listen to the core gamer section again to understand that we are part of that and won't be forgotten.
 
# 20 msdm27 @ 09/28/16 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by T4VERTS
I am out of town for work right now, but I'll write my own observations from giving the interview as well as other conversations I have had with Rex and other developers.

I will say this though, as a sim gamer I am fully comfortable with our position in the hierarchy. We have the most important guys on our side and in the end we will get what we need. Listen to the core gamer section again to understand that we are part of that and won't be forgotten.
Thanks for the work you're doing, it's greatly appreciated!

I, as most of the fanbase here does, appreciate how forthcoming Rex and Clint can be when it comes to the game's shortcomings, however...

As someone who has a background in corporate communications and marketing, I must say they're taking advantage of the fallacy that "marketing is stopping us from doing this or that". It feels like that has become the new GO-TO answer for every CORE feature missing from the game.

Now don't take me wrong, I'm pretty sure there are conflicting interests between the dev team and marketing, but I can also say that that relationship is not as conflictive or intrusive as it is sometimes made to be; I'd like to believe Rex & co. have at least the same degree of power as marketing in the decision making process.

In the end, I think most CORE features not yet implemented are more due to a dev team decision to focus on other aspects rather than because marketing didn't allow them to. And that is very valid, btw; I don't think reasonable people expect them to implement all needed features in one iteration.
 

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