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Madden NFL 13 News Post

We have talked about this already but I want to look at this not from the perspective of All Pro Football or any of the 2k games. I want to look at this within the framework of Madden/NCAA and I have already forwarded this and hope there is something that can be done. They can actually make the DE's rush better in Madden 13 by paying attention to the scripts and animations in their own animation engine. I saw this in the NCAA 13 demo (thus I know they have access to the animation script) but did not see it in any of the Madden videos from E3. It did not happen too much in the NCAA 13 video. When I saw it the lights came on. It's not the solution, but it is perhaps the best realistic quick fix they can make for Madden 13 to get the DE's to rush the passer more adequately.


It's not the end all be all but I think we need this script as a quick fix.

While it can look better, we gotta work with what EA is giving us. This script is in the game and looks decent so why not replicate it and have guys do it more instead of the bounce and keep bouncing animation. At least with this one there is an engagement and the DE actually dips his shoulder and there actually looks to be a struggle between the tackle and the DE. I think blitzing 3-4 OLB's deserve the same rush script.

Let me be clear on what I'm advocating. I think this script needs to play out more consistently through passing downs if you set your defense up to rush this way. Second, the guys coming off the edge need to get there a little faster than the LSU DE's in the video.

Separating players based on ratings would be the tricky part. I think this could help with making the elite pass rushers actually seem like they are on the field.
Another thing to think about since EA's system is based on wins and losses is what would a win for an offensive tackle look like in this scenario?

What do you guys think?

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Member Comments
# 1 SteelerSpartan @ 06/13/12 10:03 PM
Yes Need more of that and less of the DTs instantly throwing their man


Quote:
****Give the Interior DTs and 3-4 DEs more of a Power Push animation and less of the completely coming free variety......Have em push the OL right back into the QB****

And let the ratings of the DL vs OL, like strength, determine the speed of the push
Note: In most cases the OL should always be getting pushed back a little

Heres an example:



Now the 4-3 DEs/3-4 OLBs need to shoot off the ball and get up the field fast taking away that immediate roll out out that so many people like to do in these games


http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football/495117-cpu-des-dont-use-their-moves-disengage-enough-off-edge-vid-inside.html


A post I had from last year when this crap 1st started pissing me off in NCAA
 
# 2 reddogmaddogbul @ 06/13/12 10:16 PM
You actually beat me to this topic/idea.Good stuff here ,I was thinking the exact same thing ,that if they take from the own coding we could get better and more realistic outcomes" regarding line play"(especially the collapsing of the pocket)!!!!GOOD STUFF!!!!!!
 
# 3 DocZulu @ 06/13/12 10:20 PM
Props. And I agree 100%. One of the major failings of Madden 12 is a lack of a natural passrush. This has made for a very unrealistic, offensive oriented game.

To make Madden 13 more realistic then must reward teams with strong passrushing Defensive Ends.
 
# 4 reddogmaddogbul @ 06/13/12 10:28 PM
Just wondering,do you guys think it's too late for the team to code this quick fix?
 
# 5 reddogmaddogbul @ 06/13/12 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
We have talked about this already but I want to look at this not from the perspective of All Pro Football or any of the 2k games. I want to look at this within the framework of Madden/NCAA and I have already forwarded this and hope there is something that can be done. They can actually make the DE's rush better in Madden 13 by paying attention to the scripts and animations in their own animation engine. I saw this in the NCAA 13 demo (thus I know they have access to the animation script) but did not see it in any of the Madden videos from E3. It did not happen too much in the NCAA 13 video. When I saw it the lights came on. It's not the solution, but it is perhaps the best realistic quick fix they can make for Madden 13 to get the DE's to rush the passer more adequately.




It's not the end all be all but I think we need this script as a quick fix.

While it can look better, we gotta work with what EA is giving us. This script is in the game and looks decent so why not replicate it and have guys do it more instead of the bounce and keep bouncing animation. At least with this one there is an engagement and the DE actually dips his shoulder and there actually looks to be a struggle between the tackle and the DE. I think blitzing 3-4 OLB's deserve the same rush script.

Let me be clear on what I'm advocating. I think this script needs to play out more consistently through passing downs if you set your defense up to rush this way. Second, the guys coming off the edge need to get there a little faster than the LSU DE's in the video.

Separating players based on ratings would be the tricky part. I think this could help with making the elite pass rushers actually seem like they are on the field.
Another thing to think about since EA's system is based on wins and losses is what would a win for an offensive tackle look like in this scenario?

What do you guys think?
Will you be putting this on gamechangers site?
www.easports.com/gamechangers


If not I'll be post it for you,let me know if you decide not too;as I stated earlier "I WILL".
 
# 6 Senator Palmer @ 06/13/12 10:51 PM
I've been messing around a lot with the NCAA demo the past few days. I have noticed a lot more engaged movement than I've seen in the past, but I still see the bouncing more than I think I should. My LSU 4 man rush overwhelms Alabama whenever I play which is pretty fun. But I never hot route my defensive ends as I see you did on every snap. Could that account for the bouncing?

To the second part of the question, ideally a win for the offensive tackle would be pushing the defensive end up the field while the quarterback steps up, but in Madden terms a win for the tackle whose superior pass blocking strength was countering a bull rush would probably have that bounce animation. Although, I would like to see an animation where he anchors and sits down on the end.

A win for a tackle whose superior pass blocking footwork was countering a finesse move would probably once again look like the bouncing animation. Ideally, I'd like to see him get a finesse rusher on the ground as he spins, or use his superior feet to carry him by the quarterback.
 
# 7 ch46647 @ 06/13/12 10:54 PM
CO-SIgn!!! Please get rif of that patty cake animation from blitzing LB's and DE's.
 
# 8 RandyBass @ 06/13/12 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
...What do you guys think?
To me the biggest thing lacking is the speed rush off the edge, where you see tackles get beat and yet still engage the pass rusher as he goes upfield. You really don't see that in EA Football. The win for the offensive lineman in that scenario would be the offensive lineman engaging just enough to push the DE or OLB off course to buy the QB a bit more time.

Thing is none of that ^ exists in the game as far as I can tell. I almost think they should just focus on getting it right by adding new and proper movements, rather than trying to "fix" it with something that doesn't really address the problem.
 
# 9 LBzrule @ 06/13/12 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyBass
To me the biggest thing lacking is the speed rush off the edge, where you see tackles get beat and yet still engage the pass rusher as he goes upfield. You really don't see that in EA Football. The win for the offensive lineman in that scenario would be the offensive lineman engaging just enough to push the DE or OLB off course to buy the QB a bit more time.

Thing is none of that ^ exists in the game as far as I can tell. I almost think they should just focus on getting it right by adding new and proper movements, rather than trying to "fix" it with something that doesn't really address the problem.
In the grand scheme of things you are right. For Madden 13 they are not going to have the time for all of that. Given that fact, we still need something to give the elite pass rushers from the edge some presence in the game.
 
# 10 LBzrule @ 06/13/12 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddogmaddogbul
Just wondering,do you guys think it's too late for the team to code this quick fix?
I don't think something like this would be too late since it is an animation script that is already in the game engine. How to make it play more consistently shouldn't be an issue. Someone could probably write that in a couple of hours give or take. Determining win and loss animations would probably be the biggest hurdle. I like SP explanation above. Everything we are asking for him the animations are already in the game.
 
# 11 RandyBass @ 06/13/12 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
In the grand scheme of things you are right. For Madden 13 they are not going to have the time for all of that. Given that fact, we still need something to give the elite pass rushers from the edge some presence in the game.
In that video you posted though, I'm not sure I'd call that presence. The sacks were more coverage sacks than anything else, with the QB making no real attempt to evade the pass rush. So I'm not sure I'd even call that a fix. Resources might be better spent elsewhere, but the guys at Tiburon would know better than me.
 
# 12 reddogmaddogbul @ 06/13/12 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
I don't think something like this would be too late since it is an animation script that is already in the game engine. How to make it play more consistently shouldn't be an issue. Someone could probably write that in a couple of hours give or take. Determining win and loss animations would probably be the biggest hurdle. I like SP explanation above. Everything we are asking for him the animations are already in the game.
Heres to hope.
 
# 13 LBzrule @ 06/13/12 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyBass
In that video you posted though, I'm not sure I'd call that presence. The sacks were more coverage sacks than anything else, with the QB making no real attempt to evade the pass rush. So I'm not sure I'd even call that a fix. Resources might be better spent elsewhere, but the guys at Tiburon would know better than me.
This is correct, which is why the second part is to have it set up faster. It's unfortunate it's all we have for now.
 
# 14 DeuceDouglas @ 06/13/12 11:50 PM
My biggest issue with the pass rush is that it always seems to be all or nothing. A guy either gets pressure or he doesn't and there is really no in between.

The ball is snapped and it's always either the defender comes free or he doesn't. You don't see lineman come free that often especially interior guys. It happens, but it's not as common as you see in Madden. I liked what I saw in the NCAA video and I think it would be an improvement over last year but I think it might lend to even more DT sacks where the DT simply swims or runs over the OL and has a red carpet to the QB.

Something definitely needs to be done to where guys can get penetration towards the QB without simply coming free like they do so often in M12. I think Infinity will go a long ways towards that but unfortunately it won't happen until next year.
 
# 15 johnnyg713 @ 06/14/12 01:05 AM
Only thing i didnt like about the NCAA vid was that the OTs didnt push/guide the DEs down field more to let the pocket form. They collapsed way too far in and the QB could not step up in the pocket.
 
# 16 BaylorBearBryant @ 06/14/12 01:08 AM
Improve line play!
 
# 17 RandyBass @ 06/14/12 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
This is correct, which is why the second part is to have it set up faster...
I don't see how they could do that and have it work without adding in new stuff.

I think the only real temporary fix is if they give DEs and OLBs a pass rush boost through ratings, so that those positions got a higher percentage of sacks. They might not currently have the proper movements to make it look right on the field, but at least it would help the stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas
My biggest issue with the pass rush is that it always seems to be all or nothing. A guy either gets pressure or he doesn't and there is really no in between...
Definitely a key point moving forward. Would be great if it wasn't simply divided into win/loss, but rather slight win/slight loss and big win/big loss, with a few holding penalties and illegal hands to the face thrown in to boot.
 
# 18 Kanobi @ 06/14/12 04:47 AM
LBZ - Kudos to you for breaking this down without making any comparisons to All Pro Football. The way you present it, EA has few excused for getting this done. At the same time, The OL/DL play being vastly superior and more dynamic in that game despite it being 5 years older IMO needs to be brought to EA's attention as much as possible.
 
# 19 JerzeyReign @ 06/14/12 07:04 AM
Maybe its just me but I like it but I don't -- the pocket never truly forms. The QB is on the outskirts of it.

They need to 'spread' the interactions out a bit so the QB is actually in the pocket -- mixt that in with DEs rushing up the field (which should only be on pass commit type plays) and that would be golden.

Getting them to at least mimick doing it right is good I guess but until they fix the entire line's interaction with each other it will never look right IMO.
 
# 20 LBzrule @ 06/14/12 09:04 AM
What up Kanobi? I did a video with 2k8 earlier. Based on what I've seen of Madden 13, they aint coming close to the way the DE's rushed the passer in that game. I just want them to have something to keep folks interested on defense and pressured on offense. From the E3 videos it looks like defense is going to get old pretty quick and become a chore. I don't want to have to rely on spy's and contains or the blitz set ups that always get the DE as a free rusher.

Another idea I thought about this morning was the contain blitz. Why not use the contain script but rather than have the DE's breaking off and stopping the rush, have them keep running up the field. At least it is wider. Then have them fight and push the OT in rather than bouncing. I don't know, I just hope they get something done in this area this year that is decent. They are not going to get the OL/DL fixed by any means this year, but if they can do anything to enhance it and make it look better, that's what I'm after. What I saw from the E3 videos looked like the past, namely, live and die by the blitz. Or try to trick the OL and get one man free. Mehhhh, no longer into that type of stuff.
 

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