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Game: Madden NFL 13Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii U / Xbox 360Votes for game: 74 - View All
Madden NFL 13 Videos
Member Comments
# 101 bumpyface @ 04/27/12 10:57 AM
Presentation is one aspect of the game, can't really judge gameplay until the product is released.
 
# 102 Big FN Deal @ 04/27/12 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by balljonesjr
This might have been stated already but if switch to user catch on my db (which I do a lot) if his head isn't already turned but I see the ball will he play the ball properly or have a late reaction and get Mossed?
Shopmaster mentioned this.

"All is not lost if your receiver isn’t looking for the ball and you want to throw to him though. You can still throw to that receiver whose icon is still “ghosted”, but you will have to switch over and user catch it yourself. This is also true for the defense." http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ay-review.html

Also this was stated in the EA game play playbook blog

"The new Read and React Defensive AI System ties directly into what I talked above with the receiver not being able to play catches unless they see the ball, so it works for both sides of the ball. This change will affect both the offense and defense in different ways, but nobody will be able to catch or swat unless they see the ball first. However, if the user has manually taken control and attempts to make a play on the ball, they will still have a shot at success." http://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/n...fl-13-gameplay
 
# 103 drocc19 @ 04/27/12 12:29 PM
it looks good but im still not buying, the gameplay still looks the same
 
# 104 tfctillidie @ 04/27/12 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
Shopmaster mentioned this.

"All is not lost if your receiver isn’t looking for the ball and you want to throw to him though. You can still throw to that receiver whose icon is still “ghosted”, but you will have to switch over and user catch it yourself. This is also true for the defense." http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ay-review.html

Also this was stated in the EA game play playbook blog

"The new Read and React Defensive AI System ties directly into what I talked above with the receiver not being able to play catches unless they see the ball, so it works for both sides of the ball. This change will affect both the offense and defense in different ways, but nobody will be able to catch or swat unless they see the ball first. However, if the user has manually taken control and attempts to make a play on the ball, they will still have a shot at success." http://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/n...fl-13-gameplay

This sounds really bad to me. Makes me seem like user control will defy this feature entirely and the over abundance of interceptions will continue. (Praise the OS lords I don't have to deal with a TNT response to that...)

From the sounds of it, any experienced user catch player will easily break this system and make it look like M12 if they can click on and catch like we do now. They need to make it so that you are delayed in movement until the player sees it or something, or else this is just offline fluff or for those who don't user online...which wouldn't be any competitive player. Is the competitive player base really that small?


I'm actually really surprised at:

A) EA devs saying they can't user catch very good...I mean really? Play your game more! I've only played about 100 games a year since this generation started and user catching is as easy as walking down the street for me. Not saying I'm amazing at it, just saying it's really not that hard to make an attempt on the ball using most routes. As a DB it's really easy to take an out of position player and turn it into a play on the ball.

B) So many people having trouble catching the ball on their own. A single night of practicing it should make you fairly comfortable in doing so. Why is it so hard for people to learn this? Bring back training drills, that was really quite helpful in teaching how to user catch! An hour of that and you're money.



Pretty disappointing to hear though.
 
# 105 Juggernaut55 @ 04/27/12 01:21 PM
do we really need phil simms and jim nantz in the game? i dont mind them talking but we dont need to see them
 
# 106 Big FN Deal @ 04/27/12 01:24 PM
@tfctillidie, I feel you but the blog does say "a shot at success" so maybe that means it will not be a given like M12.

Also, I had the exact same concern when they announced this for NCAA 13 and I was told, given the added ball speeds, trajectories and quicker smoother animations, passes aren't in the air anywhere near as long as last year, so that means less time to make User adjustments.

So if someone intended to snap the ball and instantly throw a pass to an unsuspecting receiver, then quickly User control to make the catch, it would be inherently more difficult than last year due to how much quicker the ball is "on" the receiver.

I personally believe that a lot of this stuff has been done to target "cheese"/program exploitation but they just aren't pushing that point. If they come out and say they have intentionally made it harder to do ___ when User controlled, even if that makes it more realistic, you have those in the Madden community that would freak. lol.

I know they did that with throwing back across the QB's body but just watch how many times they keep justifying that so the "it's just a video game, if I wanted real I'd play outside" masses don't protest. It's funny to me seeing the devs try to gently persuade gamers that realistic is a fun way to play Madden after all these years of Madden-ball.

Of all the risks this new team might take, trying to transition the Madden masses into enjoying more realistic game play, is the biggest, imo, but I applaud them for taking it.
 
# 107 tfctillidie @ 04/27/12 02:01 PM
I think/hope you're right. EA's announced features don't ever seem to play out the way we want them to tho, so we'll have to see for ourselves in August.

It's easily my biggest frustration, despite that it tends to be where I can succeed in the game, I just want better realism. I can't play the CPU cause of it, they just can't compete vs a user catch...but the game is really frustrating without user catch because so many throws don't work with a CPU target.


Here's hoping..
 
# 108 kjcheezhead @ 04/27/12 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
Shopmaster mentioned this.

"All is not lost if your receiver isn’t looking for the ball and you want to throw to him though. You can still throw to that receiver whose icon is still “ghosted”, but you will have to switch over and user catch it yourself. This is also true for the defense." http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ay-review.html

Also this was stated in the EA game play playbook blog

"The new Read and React Defensive AI System ties directly into what I talked above with the receiver not being able to play catches unless they see the ball, so it works for both sides of the ball. This change will affect both the offense and defense in different ways, but nobody will be able to catch or swat unless they see the ball first. However, if the user has manually taken control and attempts to make a play on the ball, they will still have a shot at success." http://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/n...fl-13-gameplay
The shopmaster quote is something I really don't like. We'll see how it works but I agree with tfctilidie. Sounds like a return of the rocket catch days at worst and at best, a very arcade-like feature that allows gamers to override situations where wrs aren't supposed to be ready for the ball. Either way, it doesn't sound like an approach focused on realism.
 
# 109 GiantBlue76 @ 04/27/12 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjcheezhead
The shopmaster quote is something I really don't like. We'll see how it works but I agree with tfctilidie. Sounds like a return of the rocket catch days at worst and at best, a very arcade-like feature that allows gamers to override situations where wrs aren't supposed to be ready for the ball. Either way, it doesn't sound like an approach focused on realism.
This is where I am leaning. It doesn't seem like they solved anything here. Once again, player movement is going to play a major role in yet another football area. So basically, if I do nothing, my AI controlled defender/WR will not make a play for the ball if he's not looking (this is cool). However, even if he's not looking, and is completely out of position, I can take control of him and then move him into position to make a play on the ball? Ok, this can be good if it's done right. The player should only be able to be moved into a position to make a play on the ball if his body positioning would allow it. I don't want to be able to make my guy do a complete 180 while running in the opposite direction. That's exactly what ruined Madden 12 with the warping and the over abundance of interceptions/catches in triple coverage. I agree with the TC also in that user catching is already too easy. I posted about this in an earlier post.
 
# 110 Segagendude @ 04/27/12 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggernaut55
do we really need phil simms and jim nantz in the game? i dont mind them talking but we dont need to see them
No, but it's something different, which I don't mind at all. Brings a little life into the pregame, IMO.
 
# 111 Big FN Deal @ 04/27/12 03:17 PM
We will have to wait and see how it all is implemented but from the way I understand it, the added transitional/situational animations added should help diminish the visual WTF moments for User catching and pass defending.

For example, in that Woodson clip shown in the video, if switching to User control without actually turning him around, strafing to attempt a INT, which should be more difficult this year due to reduced ball flight time, hitting the "catch" button should cause an applicable animation to trigger in M13.

It seems to me many of the issues in M12's WR/DB moments, stemmed from a lack of the correct animation being available to trigger for a given situation. So a defender with their back to the play being User controlled in M12 could trigger either a ridiculous over the shoulder "no look" grab or some superhuman looking instant turnaround INT/swat. This year, IF the proper animations are available, it should look far more realistic in relation to the situation.

That said, people need to realize, as a User playing in the "god view", certain actions most likely will and should be far more successful in the game because unlike the in-game player, the User defender can actually time the swat/pass defense better, since they can see the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvyW5EkUQYk

I am as big of a User control realistic limitations advocate as anybody but there are some reasonable trade offs for playing from the current game play view, that have to acknowledged.
 
# 112 RGiles36 @ 04/27/12 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spankdatazz22
Instead it's the same outside/in approach of focusing on the skill positions and little attention given to the OL/DL play, versus an inside/out approach that while not as exciting makes more sense long term. I'm sure they've made improvements to the OL/DL on some level, but it'd be nice to see the less glamorous aspects of the gameplay be given as much attention as the QB/WR play received and addressed sooner rather than later. To that end it doesn't seem like things have changed; they always seem like the team that refuses to draft an offensive lineman because they're normally not sexy picks.
I'm not going to present anything that's going to change anyone's mind, but I would like to respond to this.

Here's something Taz just stated in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazdevil20
The average fan won't be able to tell if it really executes properly.
(for context, he was talking about something that had to do w/ the OL/DL interaction)

All things being equal, we'd all agree that both the passing game and OL/DL interactions needed an overhaul. Ideally, we'd like both addressed in the same cycle. If that can't happen, then a decision has to be made and I think that's the signifigance of Taz's post.

If they had the flexibility to only address passing or OL/DL, then I think they went with the right option. It's not so much about working outside/inside or going with the sexier option (although that's probably part of it). I think what sways a decision is bang-for-their-development-buck.

Let's take Madden out of the equation and think about the average football fan: do they understand principles of OL/DL battles? Do they know the signifigance of a stunt? Do they even know what a kickslide is? Sure some fans do, but a significant number could care less.

Hell, I think we're just now seeing some fans want to dig deeper into the game as evidenced by the emergence of hardcore sites such as profootballfocus.com. Even here at OS, you can tell who knows about trench work and who's just regurgitating what they've read from other knowledgeable OSers.

So again, I don't think it's as cut & dry as going with the sexy pick (borrowing your draft metaphor). We all understand that the end-game is to move units. I think it makes more sense to make necessary changes to the passing game as more people are going to notice and appreciate those.

That said, I firmly believe OL/DL is on their immediate radar.
 
# 113 LBzrule @ 04/27/12 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiles36
I'm not going to present anything that's going to change anyone's mind, but I would like to respond to this.

Here's something Taz just stated in another thread:



(for context, he was talking about something that had to do w/ the OL/DL interaction)

All things being equal, we'd all agree that both the passing game and OL/DL interactions needed an overhaul. Ideally, we'd like both addressed in the same cycle. If that can't happen, then a decision has to be made and I think that's the signifigance of Taz's post.

If they had the flexibility to only address passing or OL/DL, then I think they went with the right option. It's not so much about working outside/inside or going with the sexier option (although that's probably part of it). I think what sways a decision is bang-for-their-development-buck.

Let's take Madden out of the equation and think about the average football fan: do they understand principles of OL/DL battles? Do they know the signifigance of a stunt? Do they even know what a kickslide is? Sure some fans do, but a significant number could care less.

Hell, I think we're just now seeing some fans want to dig deeper into the game as evidenced by the emergence of hardcore sites such as profootballfocus.com. Even here at OS, you can tell who knows about trench work and who's just regurgitating what they've read from other knowledgeable OSers.

So again, I don't think it's as cut & dry as going with the sexy pick (borrowing your draft metaphor). We all understand that the end-game is to move units. I think it makes more sense to make necessary changes to the passing game as more people are going to notice and appreciate those.

That said, I firmly believe OL/DL is on their immediate radar.
I think you are right with respect to the fans. Most of them are not going to even look at it. The other thing I will add is that I think the decision they made to not overhaul it this year is because OL/DL is the most difficult work to do in a football game. WR/DB was/is easier to deal with pending on how deep a developer wants this to be. I hope it will have some depth to it. Back to OL/DL. Once you make the decision that your DL and OL are no longer tied to each other, now you open up a big a$$ can of worms that you better know what the hell you are doing once you go down that road. It took 2k 2 years to write that for 2k8 and they were going to add to it. It is by far the best pass blocking to date and they were not done with it. But with their play system the way it was, namely OL/DL already not tied together that made it a bit "easier" for them to pull off. EA will be starting from the ground up with OL/DL. Pivotal decisions will need to be made from the jump. Do they leave the play system alone or do they now decided to go with tiered defensive play calling? Lots of decisions have to be made before they jump into this.
 
# 114 Big FN Deal @ 04/27/12 04:35 PM
Great post Rgiles and it helps put things in better perspective, imo.

It absolutely makes far more practical and business sense to tie in an OL/DL overhaul with some other far more celebrated aspect of football, like say the running game. I can definitely picture even the casual football fan getting far more excited and interested in a completely redone OL/DL system in context with marketing a new running system and movement animations.
 
# 115 GiantBlue76 @ 04/27/12 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
I think you are right with respect to the fans. Most of them are not going to even look at it. The other thing I will add is that I think the decision they made to not overhaul it this year is because OL/DL is the most difficult work to do in a football game. WR/DB was/is easier to deal with pending on how deep a developer wants this to be. I hope it will have some depth to it. Back to OL/DL. Once you make the decision that your DL and OL are no longer tied to each other, now you open up a big a$$ can of worms that you better know what the hell you are doing once you go down that road. It took 2k 2 years to write that for 2k8 and they were going to add to it. It is by far the best pass blocking to date and they were not done with it. But with their play system the way it was, namely OL/DL already not tied together that made it a bit "easier" for them to pull off. EA will be starting from the ground up with OL/DL. Pivotal decisions will need to be made from the jump. Do they leave the play system alone or do they now decided to go with tiered defensive play calling? Lots of decisions have to be made before they jump into this.
Russ and LB - great posts...

The bolded text is something I find VERY interesting... I guess my question is, why was 2k able to do this (obviously several years ago) and the big mammoth company who has endless resources and the exclusive license still has not?
 
# 116 KyrieIrving @ 04/27/12 05:59 PM
Hat interception around 25-30 was amazinly played out, i hope we see that more often
 
# 117 LBzrule @ 04/27/12 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazdevil20
Russ and LB - great posts...

The bolded text is something I find VERY interesting... I guess my question is, why was 2k able to do this (obviously several years ago) and the big mammoth company who has endless resources and the exclusive license still has not?
My biggest guess is that from the previous gen, 2k already had the plan of revamping the OL. They made that decision and went to work on it. Secondly, I think their play set for defense allowed them to make this decision easily. They went ahead and did the hard work of re-working the play set for defense when they did 2k4. This goes back to decisions made previous impact later decisions. I think EA may develop their own way or working out OL/DL. We'll see. Interestingly, I don't think they will renew the NFL license. They will finally have their game on next gen matching everything their competitor had on last gen so then they wouldn't care. Just my opinion. Can't be proved.
 
# 118 Senator Palmer @ 04/27/12 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiles36
Let's take Madden out of the equation and think about the average football fan: do they understand principles of OL/DL battles? Do they know the signifigance of a stunt? Do they even know what a kickslide is? Sure some fans do, but a significant number could care less.
It's a shame, generally speaking, that the lines aren't looked at with more awe. I find a certain beauty in what goes on in the trenches. It's where the game is made and broken in real life football and its virtual counter.

And speaking of the kickslide, I'm counting the days until I can see this in Madden:



...instead of this:



^This has got to go. I'm with rgiles in that I believe they feel the same way, Clint especially.
 
# 119 darknmild @ 04/27/12 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BezO
Not much to say about the vid that hasn't already been said. Thanks for saving me some time PG. Much easier to just like everything you said.
I see neither of you post here much, but this is the type of passive aggressive, immature nonsense that moves threads towards being locked. Have some respect for people's opinions. If you're happy with the imrpvoements, excellent. But don't insult folks that don't feel the same.

Many here are pretty good at expressing & explaining themselves. I bet if you address someone directly, they'd be happy to tell you why they're not as impressed as you.
it goes both ways.
 
# 120 darknmild @ 04/27/12 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darknmild
it goes both ways.
Disregard my last post
 


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