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Most every sports gaming developer protects the secrets of their ratings as if they were classified government projects. The truth is, sports gamers really don't know what many of the ratings mean and what they do. Do you think this is wrong and do you think sports gamers have a fundamental right (as customers) to know how each aspect of their game works?

You can vote on your right on the frontpage and above you in the forums.

Member Comments
# 1 alexgamez122 @ 12/01/11 11:54 AM
No, if you go to a restaurant do you have the right to demand the recipe from the chief ?. The company must protect it's product by keeping certain items, in this case ratings formula as a secret.
 
# 2 C the Lyte @ 12/01/11 11:55 AM
I wouldn't call it a fundamental right. It would be nice to know, but not necessary.
 
# 3 threattonature @ 12/01/11 12:10 PM
I think that if they give us the right to tinker with sliders then I believe it is a necessity so that the user can customize the game to their liking instead of leaving it up to the user to play the guessing game as to what different ratings do.
 
# 4 eaterofworlds888 @ 12/01/11 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C the Lyte
I wouldn't call it a fundamental right. It would be nice to know, but not necessary.
basically the same thing I think. Not like it's a big deal, but would be nice to know
 
# 5 Mr_Merk_House @ 12/01/11 12:28 PM
I do not think we should be required to know. I agree with the restaurant analogy. However in games like NHL where people are paying money to increase attributes. I believe it should be much more transparent. The descriptions in the game are adequate, but rather bland if you ask me.
 
# 6 biggiejerseys @ 12/01/11 12:59 PM
I like to know how each attribute affects my player especially in the career modes in NBA 2K, MLB 2K & NHL.
 
# 7 mirrored32 @ 12/01/11 01:04 PM
with the ability to edit rosters ratings when we get the game and in franchise mode (madden 12) why is there a big hold back? I would like to be able to KNOW WHY my players act as they do. I can create a player but I don't know what attributes do what.

i have asked for this for years. i am for it. required to release isn't right, but if they choose to release what the ratings mean would make for a better game IMO.
 
# 8 Jadakiss88 @ 12/01/11 01:10 PM
I am a former athlete (amateur and college) and an avid sports fan so finding out what these attributes are for is easy. But you guys do realize the formula's for these are a little overly complex for these games that's why we have Roster and Title updates so they change as the season goes on. But if you are wondering how each attribute effects the player just look at the real life counterpart.
 
# 9 Gotmadskillzson @ 12/01/11 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadakiss88
I am a former athlete (amateur and college) and an avid sports fan so finding out what these attributes are for is easy. But you guys do realize the formula's for these are a little overly complex for these games that's why we have Roster and Title updates so they change as the season goes on. But if you are wondering how each attribute effects the player just look at the real life counterpart.
Ummm it isn't as cut and dry like that.........

Some examples:

Elusiveness rating. It means to avoid. however players in Madden 12 and NCAA 12 with high elusiveness rating don't try to avoid people while running.

Play recognition - Only used by the defense, not the offense. Which is dumb, because offense should learn and react to certain defensive plays and formations like a defense would to offensive formations.

Pursuit - By the game definition, only used by the defense, but in reality in the game it can be used by offensive players as well.

Return rating - By definition, it should mean how well a player returns. But in Madden and NCAA it don't. A zero return rated player can get just as many yards as a 99 return rated player. Nothing in their running style or running AI logic changes.

These formulas aren't overly complex. Don't believe that BS hype. Besides nobody is ASKING for the formula anyway. What people are asking for is what rating produces what kind of outcome on the field. What is the triggering point for a specific animation to trigger by the cpu AI. What changes their AI logic when it comes to them to deciding what running lane to pick or what type of tackle attempt they will do.

I mean you can go to any restaurant and asked how they cooked that and they will tell you, yeah 1st we seared it, then let it cook in the oven for 40 minutes.

So all EA has to do is the following:

This rating right here, controls the following animation triggers and AI logic. If you are between these 2 set of numbers, this, this and that will happen, if you between these 2 numbers over here, the following animation and AI logic will happen.

It is as simple as that. That is all they have to do with every rating they have in the game.
 
# 10 ryan36 @ 12/01/11 01:34 PM
I don't think so. Look at the differences between MLB2k and The Show. If the Show let loose exactly how what they programmed worked, it becomes public knowledge and MLB2k could seize on it... thus improving a game's competitor.

I think it's slightly different in a case like Madden, but I also imagine that programmers can sufficiently "reverse engineer" the competition, so maybe the "secret sauce" isn't so secret.
 
# 11 Cryolemon @ 12/01/11 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C the Lyte
I wouldn't call it a fundamental right. It would be nice to know, but not necessary.
Agreed. It would be pretty good to know, but the devs have no compulsion to do it.
 
# 12 The GIGGAS @ 12/01/11 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan36
I don't think so. Look at the differences between MLB2k and The Show. If the Show let loose exactly how what they programmed worked, it becomes public knowledge and MLB2k could seize on it... thus improving a game's competitor.

I think it's slightly different in a case like Madden, but I also imagine that programmers can sufficiently "reverse engineer" the competition, so maybe the "secret sauce" isn't so secret.
I guess I just don't see how explaining what an attribute is for can immediately allow a team to reverse-engineer an entire game.

I mean, look at NBA 2k. If a developer came in to explain offensive awareness as "the ability to pick a play based on the personnel and defensive look that will succeed" (just an example), does that give EA a way to reverse-engineer that entire concept?
 
# 13 squadron supreme @ 12/01/11 01:58 PM
Developers shouldn't release how a players overall rating is calculated they but say what each attribute is supposed to do. The problem comes as an earlier poster pointed out when you change a players a rating in specific areas and it doesn't change the way they play in game. This makes the developer look bad because why are they including ratings that are customizable but have no effect on gameplay?
 
# 14 jcofor25 @ 12/01/11 02:00 PM
They should put a brief description As 2k put in 2k11 where each rating was briefly defined in a short sentence. After playing 5 years of 2k basketball games I finally know what almost every rating does.

I don't think you should ask for animation triggers as that can easily attract cheesers.
 
# 15 RedPhazon8 @ 12/01/11 02:13 PM
How is explaining ratings like telling people specific programing for how the game works? A company doesn't have to release anything other then explanations for what things mean. Take "Emotion" in NBA 2K, there's no explanation for it other then what a user thinks it is, which is how emotional your player is in game. Why would you stick that in a ratings category for skills? The hidden meaning is some people believe it also helps you draw more fouls. Ratings are fully editable in sports games nowadays, but if you don't know what those individual items mean, how are you supposed to use them to their max potential?
 
# 16 nomo17k @ 12/01/11 02:27 PM
I don't think we gamers have any "right" as to knowing internals of a game. That would be equal to asking devs to release their codes, and unless it's an open-source project nobody really does.

And do you really want to know *exactly* what ratings do? To me that takes fun away from playing games. A lot of ratings are used to do dice rolling to generate a (ultimately fake) sense of randomness in games. If you exactly know what each rating does, your best strategy is always to go by ratings and hence probabilities. There's not much intangible and that's not really fun as far as I'm concerned...

Having said that, since I'm a simulation type gamer and love to play MLBXX the Show with different rosters, it would be nice to know what ratings do for the sole purpose of creating that sort of data, e.g., for converting real-life stats into in-game ratings. That much info I'd definitely like to know.

Just for gaming, I'd at least know how rating affects game, but not exactly how much, you know what I mean... So it depends on what I'm doing with the game as well.
 
# 17 HustlinOwl @ 12/01/11 02:54 PM
Developers can do whatever they want, we can do whatever we want. Simple as that.
 
# 18 Jadakiss88 @ 12/01/11 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson
Ummm it isn't as cut and dry like that.........

Some examples:

Elusiveness rating. It means to avoid. however players in Madden 12 and NCAA 12 with high elusiveness rating don't try to avoid people while running.

Play recognition - Only used by the defense, not the offense. Which is dumb, because offense should learn and react to certain defensive plays and formations like a defense would to offensive formations.

Pursuit - By the game definition, only used by the defense, but in reality in the game it can be used by offensive players as well.

Return rating - By definition, it should mean how well a player returns. But in Madden and NCAA it don't. A zero return rated player can get just as many yards as a 99 return rated player. Nothing in their running style or running AI logic changes.

These formulas aren't overly complex. Don't believe that BS hype. Besides nobody is ASKING for the formula anyway. What people are asking for is what rating produces what kind of outcome on the field. What is the triggering point for a specific animation to trigger by the cpu AI. What changes their AI logic when it comes to them to deciding what running lane to pick or what type of tackle attempt they will do.

I mean you can go to any restaurant and asked how they cooked that and they will tell you, yeah 1st we seared it, then let it cook in the oven for 40 minutes.

So all EA has to do is the following:

This rating right here, controls the following animation triggers and AI logic. If you are between these 2 set of numbers, this, this and that will happen, if you between these 2 numbers over here, the following animation and AI logic will happen.

It is as simple as that. That is all they have to do with every rating they have in the game.
Well maybe you are right? No offense, but you don't know what the ratings are used for.
Elusiveness isn't about avoiding players but how likely the player is to break a tackle using a finesse move or using pure speed. Warrick Dunn is the best example of an elusive back.

Play Recognition is only for defense. The QB (the user) should be able to recognize coverage and blitz schemes. That's why you are allowed to audible, shift the O line, hot route receivers, and change the side
the back is running to. On offense play recognition is left soley up to you since IRL only the Center and QB are the only one's making calls on offense.

Pursuit is also only for defense. Pursuit is the ability to run down a player. Unless you plan on throwing lots of INT's or fumbling alot there is really no reason for the offense to have high pursuit ratings. Why should a receiver have a 90 pursuit rating even though their primary job is to catch the ball?

Return I can agree with you but in all honesty Return is a useless rating. You and I both know that return depends on field vision, speed, accleration, and the blocking ability of your special teams (well that's how I judge it). Most of my return mean are in the 90's but ever so often I am successful with a 85. However, all those ratings play a very important role in deciding how they are rated in return.

And what your asking EA to do, they do already. Every year before NCAA or Madden comes out they do massive amounts of blogs explaining these ratings and how they effect your player on the field. But all in all you should know your team. I run my team like a coach would I put my players in the best position to score. If you know a receiver has a 95 speed rating but a 75 CTH you would be less likely to throw to them on Third and Long than you would a receiver with 86 speed and 85 CTH.

The only problem I have with the ratings is it seems some get thrown out once you hit the field. A 95 rated D end should not get pancaked PERIOD by 65 rated O lineman. I think the biggest issue is the games consistency and realism. Alot of these stats don't correlate on to the field at all. Pass Block and Run Blocking ratings for example. Blocking Footwork is about how quick a player can get into position to make a solid block. You know how O linemen drop back on passes they have to have good footwork especially Tackles since they have more ground to cover.
 
# 19 Equinox831 @ 12/01/11 04:31 PM
It's not a right by any means. We should know, but it's in no way a right.
 
# 20 Jukeman @ 12/01/11 04:34 PM
Is this a question about whether or not devs should let us know what certain rating's mean or is this about programming?
 

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