NBA 2K12 News Post

NBA 2K12 Developer Insight #9 - Defense

12:14 PM - September 16, 2011 by mreyes930

Check out the new NBA 2K12 Developer Insight #9, as Jerson Sapida talks about the defensive side of the ball.

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# 81 23 @ 09/16/11 01:45 PM

All of the great stuff in this insight and you guys are still finding things to argue about?

Good grief man

# 82 Knickerbocker @ 09/16/11 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Marlowe


	This mano y mano notion that keeps being brought up is BS. If thats your idea of how D should be played then fine. But dont act as if you have a monopoly on what dictates a true user v user gaming experience.

... Well user vs user is user vs user. If the opponent keeps switching to off ball D, to avoid guarding the ball handler its user vs cpu. Rather simple.

Also everyone will still be able to play off ball. Don't really understand what's the fuss? There will be no penalties to it. You will just be rewarded for playing on ball D. And as said they introduced this since on ball D became a dying art. 95% of ppl online just switched off the ball handler and camped the paint or went for the lanes.

# 83 Sam Marlowe @ 09/16/11 01:46 PM

Its "perfect logic" to you Colts because it fits whatever your definition of the experience is. It doesn't follow for someone who approaches and expects differently than you.

# 84 Pared @ 09/16/11 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blues rocker


	whatever man...i'm not going to argue anymore...i actually agree with you and feel that having "true control" would be better...

Then why are we going back and forth...? Ha. It's to allow guys that want direct involvement in the game to have more user control.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcras7


	2k explained why the hands up defense is the way it is they even said after a long discussion and debate they found this solution to be a good compromise, I don't see why this is even an issue. 2k has always been a game that tried to make the casual and the sim gamers happy.

If you truly want to see why this is an "issue" then please go back and read what I've posted. I've detailed it multiple times.

From the way it was posted, the two methods to initiate the "contest" are both dependent on what the shooter does and the AI deciding to play out an animation. That's not user controlled. Just because I have to hold something to initiate doesn't mean it is user controlled IMO. May be user "initiated" but I don't really want to get into semantics....

Quote:

Originally Posted by infam0us


	If I'm reading it right Pared, if you are back peddling with your hands up and the guy pulls up you want them to press like Y or another button to contest instead of automatically doing it.

Yes, my friend - you have the main philosophy behind it.

DC (before he was banned) and I used to have this conversation every year.

If any year was the PERFECT year to incorporate it, this was it.

Trust Jerson when he writes "after much deliberation."

I do want to add - I am NOT making this as big a deal as some of you are. I am simply stating my point and why I feel this way.

# 85 Colts18 @ 09/16/11 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Marlowe


	Its "perfect logic" to you Colts because it fits whatever your definition of the experience is. It doesn't follow for someone who approaches and expects differently than you.

Well 2K must believe a lost piece of the online/user experience is playing on-ball defense. So I will just rack up my bonus points while you RT + Y with Dwight in the paint.

# 86 domidomdomz @ 09/16/11 01:48 PM

Damn right, Jerson.

Defense wins championships.

Great read by the way.

# 87 dukedude24 @ 09/16/11 01:49 PM

people are making it a bigger issue than it really is....

who cares if u are guarding on ball or off ball....personally i switch up...

it's just depends on ur strategy.....

# 88 Sam Marlowe @ 09/16/11 01:51 PM

Infamous, the post you quoted wasnt referring to the new defensive improvements. Its only about the user v user debate.

As I said earlier my gripe with the on ball/ off ball changes is a small one. If the guys like Czar, Dustin ect who actually played the game havent complained about it then its something Im perfectly fine shutting up about.

# 89 Sam Marlowe @ 09/16/11 01:52 PM

Everything else I got from that Insight was gravy. Nice and thick like I like it.

# 90 blues rocker @ 09/16/11 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	Then why are we going back and forth...? Ha. It's to allow guys that want direct involvement in the game to have more user control.

i just don't think the auto contest will be as much of an issue...i feel that the "weak" hand up animation won't affect the shot nearly as much as a "block button" jumping contest...so a person who can master the block button contest will still have an advantage over someone who only relies on the "auto contest"...the more skilled user still has the advantage...so, while this system is not quite ideal, it still works for me.

what i'm hoping is that they've updated their contest system so that doing a momentum jump into a shooter mid shot will actually result in a foul...i somewhat disagree that the "straight up" shot contest doesn't affect the shot at all...i felt like i could affect the shot with that animation (though not as much as a momentum jump contest).

# 91 Sam Marlowe @ 09/16/11 01:58 PM

Knickerbocker, if the only reason for someone playing off the ball were the one you gave then you would have a point. I would agree.Thats not the case though.

Colts, as it relates to me, you havent the slightest clue what you're talking about.

# 92 amedawg00 @ 09/16/11 02:00 PM

In the e.p.i.c. battle of off ball defense vs. on ball defense, I think this insight pretty much settles what is more respectable in a user vs. user matchup. By all means, play off ball defense against the CPU if that is your cup of tea, but please leave that wimpy, tepid, and down right disgraceful strategy for the offline mode when matching wits against a human opponent.

As the dev himself reiterated "Playing onball should not be something that’s feared" in a competitive online or offline matchup against a human opponent.

On ball defense FTW!

# 93 blues rocker @ 09/16/11 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Self313


	for those at work

thanks man.

# 94 blues rocker @ 09/16/11 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amedawg00


	In the e.p.i.c. battle of off ball defense vs. on ball defense, I think this insight pretty much settles what is more respectable in a user vs. user matchup. By all means, play off ball defense against the CPU if that is your cup of tea, but please leave that wimpy, tepid, and down right disgraceful strategy for the offline mode when matching wits against a human opponent. As the dev himself reiterated "Playing onball should not be something that�s feared" in a competitive online or offline matchup against a human opponent. On ball defense FTW!

i would gladly play onball defense online if not for the lag...doesn't the lag create a disadvantage to playing onball defense? maybe i just have a crappy internet connection, but player responsiveness is pretty slow for me online.

# 95 coolcras7 @ 09/16/11 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amedawg00


	In the e.p.i.c. battle of off ball defense vs. on ball defense, I think this insight pretty much settles what is more respectable in a user vs. user matchup. By all means, play off ball defense against the CPU if that is your cup of tea, but please leave that wimpy, tepid, and down right disgraceful strategy for the offline mode when matching wits against a human opponent. As the dev himself reiterated "Playing onball should not be something that’s feared" in a competitive online or offline matchup against a human opponent. On ball defense FTW!

Exactly for years people have been complaining that there was more advantages to playing offball than onball now 2k claims to have stepped up the defense so playing onball is now beneficial and rewarding for a good player, for all those complaining did you not see the video of Ronnie playing those so called advantages mean nothing if you play the wrong way.

# 96 Sam Marlowe @ 09/16/11 02:10 PM

Amedawg00, what you just posted is textbook example of anti-thought. As if the only possible reason a person would play off the ball is if their scared or "wimpy". LOL.

# 97 st0rmb11 @ 09/16/11 02:12 PM

Great read.

but SMH at Rose's rating (outside offense, in particular)

# 98 amedawg00 @ 09/16/11 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blues rocker


	i would gladly play onball defense online if not for the lag...doesn't the lag create a disadvantage to playing onball defense? maybe i just have a crappy internet connection, but player responsiveness is pretty slow for me online.

The myth of player responsiveness and shot release delay online is GREATLY exaggerated each year. I have no issues whatsoever with player movement online. The user input on the left stick is what causes unresponsiveness. Knowing when to feather the left stick as opposed to fully pressing it as well as laying off turbo usually mitigates any so called online responsiveness issues. This year additional "shuffling" and intense defense controls should add even more tighter controls for player movement.

# 99 blues rocker @ 09/16/11 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amedawg00


	The myth of player responsiveness and shot release delay online is GREATLY exaggerated each year. I have no issues whatsoever with player movement online. The user input on the left stick is what causes unresponsiveness. Knowing when to feather the left stick as opposed to fully pressing it as well as laying off turbo usually mitigates any so called online responsiveness issues. This year additional "shuffling" and intense defense controls should add even more tighter controls for player movement.

it's not a myth for me, man...the lag for me is pretty noticeable...i'm not sure how much one's online connection can affect the lag.

# 100 rjmdeuce79 @ 09/16/11 02:23 PM

Quote:


	In competitive play, be it online or offline, there is always that never ending dispute over opponents never wanting to guard the ball.Many users just don’t want (or are afraid) to be tasked with keeping in front of the ball handler and preventing penetration. They end up controlling and offball defender and simply camp out down low to defend the inside shot. Even during our friendly office tournaments, the majority of the participants played this way. We wanted to address this for 2K12. Playing onball should not be something that’s feared. Now, we give you an added incentive to play the ball on defense. For one, user-controlled defenders will impact the shot percentages more than an AI-controlled one. When you control the defender and perform hands up defense or jump up to contest, your shot release defense will be higher than just leaving it to your AI teammates.

I. AM. ELATED.

There's nothing more satisfying than playing an individual and crossing him over and seeing him go the opposite direction.

Countless times I've either been hit with it or yelled out "got 'em" and quite frankly, it feels 100% better knowing that there was someone manning me up trying to match wits and stick.

I just never got the idea of "camping" in the paint letting the AI do everything, what was the point of getting online and playing a human? To each his own I guess.

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