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NBA Elite 11 News Post

Kotaku has posted their impressions of NBA Elite 11.

Quote:
"The simplicity is seen in the new shot motion, which is brings a skill basis to jump shots and takes the dice-roll out of making them. Shooting is accomplished by pushing up on the right stick within a "sweet spot" direction that gets wider the better rated your shooter is. You have to release it within a certain window, too, to put enough distance on the ball to go in. After half-a-dozen bricks I started getting the release down, and was complimented on picking up the shooting mechanic so early.

The complexity will be in how you move with the ball, to break down your defender or to chart a path to the basket. In past versions of NBA Live, the CPU would pick the appropriate animation from a set of ankle-breaker moves you activated with the right stick. Now your right stick is going to be used to manually key them. A crossover dribble's motion is different from a between-the-legs or a behind-the-back dribble, all of which have different purposes and liabilities. Knowing which one to use and how to put it in play will take a patient tutorial and work in the game's gym setting. Novell Thomas, NBA Elite's gameplay producer, assured me the game would have both."

Game: NBA Elite 11Reader Score: 2/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 5 - View All
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Member Comments
# 1 RayDog253 @ 06/16/10 06:23 AM
Nice read, all though nothing too exciting.
 
# 2 akiracy @ 06/16/10 11:06 AM
The shooting mechanic sounds like a combination of Sony's NBA game and the 2K's shotstick
 
# 3 bigsmallwood @ 06/16/10 11:57 AM
Sounds promising. Time will tell how revolutionary (if at all) this shooting feature will be...
 
# 4 loadleft @ 06/16/10 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teebone21
nice skill base shooting = advantage over casuals= fun to me.
At this point I'm like whatever, but I think you may have things reversed. With skill based shooting the focus could go away from good basketball fundamentals and towards good stick skills. That's what a lot of the "basketball heads" are concerned with. I finally have put down Live 10 because the focus was a challenging game not necessarily a realistic ones in terms of on the court gameplay. That's not to say it isn't sim but watching Boston's offense revolve around Rondo taking 18ft jumpers off the dribble and Paul Peirce spotting up for 3's w/very little mid range just wore on me after a while. Sure both guys are capable IRL but that's not what they're about, even if that's what the D was giving them. That kinda stuff makes winning challenging but not realistic gameplay. If Shot Stick controls are so critical that one must master them before understanding basic pick and roll offensive plays then in my opinion we have the same problem all over again. I like the idea of all this new stuff but one thing that worries me is the advertising push is all about the controls and what they allow you to do and not about we finally got game play right and Boston plays like Boston, you'll struggle to keep Rondo out of the paint while containing Peirce's mid range game and Allen off screens and so on. Obviously I am hoping to be 100% wrong but hey this is EA after all!
 
# 5 Jano @ 06/16/10 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
At this point I'm like whatever, but I think you may have things reversed. With skill based shooting the focus could go away from good basketball fundamentals and towards good stick skills. That's what a lot of the "basketball heads" are concerned with. I finally have put down Live 10 because the focus was a challenging game not necessarily a realistic ones in terms of on the court gameplay. That's not to say it isn't sim but watching Boston's offense revolve around Rondo taking 18ft jumpers off the dribble and Paul Peirce spotting up for 3's w/very little mid range just wore on me after a while. Sure both guys are capable IRL but that's not what they're about, even if that's what the D was giving them. That kinda stuff makes winning challenging but not realistic gameplay. If Shot Stick controls are so critical that one must master them before understanding basic pick and roll offensive plays then in my opinion we have the same problem all over again. I like the idea of all this new stuff but one thing that worries me is the advertising push is all about the controls and what they allow you to do and not about we finally got game play right and Boston plays like Boston, you'll struggle to keep Rondo out of the paint while containing Peirce's mid range game and Allen off screens and so on. Obviously I am hoping to be 100% wrong but hey this is EA after all!
I understand exactly what you're saying loadleft you want the game to be about basketball knowledge first then stick skills next. Well IMO its that type of thinking that has kind of trapped the basketball genre.

Everybody that plays basketball games always have some type of complaint about them not playing out realistically. They may look real in some cases but that same level of realism doesn't really extend to the controls and gameplay itself.

Sometimes I think we forget that these are still videogames so skill is important to have. In a lot of basketball games your skill level in the game doesn't have to be high to be successful. Just give it to the best player and just shoot.

With Elite EA is trying to eliminate that ease of play and make stick skills important too. What this does is now those that have a lot of basketball knowledge and good stick skills will come out on top. And that's the way it should be because if its all about bball knowledge then you can just cheese your way to a win.

If you combine the two the one that has a strong understanding of the game will be able to use his players properly. So if his team is good at running pick and roll he will use it.

But because stick skills are in the equation now just understanding the game of bball will not be enough. You will also have to practice and put in work to be good at the game.

One thing that i loved about Live 05 was the fact that I could beat my friends at it not just because I understood bball but im also good at the game too.

I used to frustrate them when they tried to bowl into the paint by drawing charges. This forced them to have to really play ball and think while they played. With Elite I see EA trying to get back to that level of play where the best player wins and thats the one who has it together mentally (bball knowledge) and physically too (stick skills).

Basically what I'm trying to say is that stick skills is what will make basketball knowledge important. B/C if there's no reason for the player to be skilled at the game then why should he use bball knowledge.

If you can just chuck up threes or run around till you get a dunk why should bball knowledge be important. THe fact that EA is trrying to put skills back into the game tells ME that they are trying to get to the simulation level you and I want the game to be at.
 
# 6 loadleft @ 06/16/10 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jano
I understand exactly what you're saying loadleft you want the game to be about basketball knowledge first then stick skills next. Well IMO its that type of thinking that has kind of trapped the basketball genre.

Everybody that plays basketball games always have some type of complaint about them not playing out realistically. They may look real in some cases but that same level of realism doesn't really extend to the controls and gameplay itself.

Sometimes I think we forget that these are still videogames so skill is important to have. In a lot of basketball games your skill level in the game doesn't have to be high to be successful. Just give it to the best player and just shoot.

With Elite EA is trying to eliminate that ease of play and make stick skills important too. What this does is now those that have a lot of basketball knowledge and good stick skills will come out on top. And that's the way it should be because if its all about bball knowledge then you can just cheese your way to a win.

If you combine the two the one that has a strong understanding of the game will be able to use his players properly. So if his team is good at running pick and roll he will use it.

But because stick skills are in the equation now just understanding the game of bball will not be enough. You will also have to practice and put in work to be good at the game.

One thing that i loved about Live 05 was the fact that I could beat my friends at it not just because I understood bball but im also good at the game too.

I used to frustrate them when they tried to bowl into the paint by drawing charges. This forced them to have to really play ball and think while they played. With Elite I see EA trying to get back to that level of play where the best player wins and thats the one who has it together mentally (bball knowledge) and physically too (stick skills).

Basically what I'm trying to say is that stick skills is what will make basketball knowledge important. B/C if there's no reason for the player to be skilled at the game then why should he use bball knowledge.

If you can just chuck up threes or run around till you get a dunk why should bball knowledge be important. THe fact that EA is trrying to put skills back into the game tells ME that they are trying to get to the simulation level you and I want the game to be at.
Interesting take, but to me the simple reason to not run in circles and throw up 3's is because it won't work as in real life. If effective defense is built into the game where the presence of a defender and a hand in the face makes the shot a lot more difficult or unlikely to go in there's no need of an artificial challenge such as can you push a stick in a straight line, etc. One would be required to use basketball knowledge to get open shots or good looks at the basket. That makes it a simulation of what basketball is about not a video game with basketball aspects.

I am not against the shot stick, I feel innovations such as those should be used to add functionality that previously wasn't possible, but not add a challenge that really doesn't exist in basketball. The latter in my opinion drives the game away from being a sim. IRL the mechanics of shooting a basketball aren't that hard it's being able to do them successfully with the various challenges brought on by the game. I don't mean I should be able to shoot with my eyes close using the shot stick, I just mean it shouldn't be what the challenge of the game is about. If the shot stick is "the challenge" you'll have guys that don't even know what a pick is mastering the shot stick and effectively playing the game. So don't get me wrong if the shot stick means I don't need a layup solution movie to get to the basket but I can do it on my own, I am all for it, but if it means no matter how open I am I got to master the split second release and ability to push a stick straight to score then we're not playing basketball it's the Shot Stick Challenge!

Further I haven't heard a single thing about "...we've improved game play..." I's been you can now do all this special stuff with the controls. Instantly that reminds me of the introduction of freestyle dribbling. Now guys can do all kinds of stuff that a real life player never could simply by mastering controls. I want DNA improved, and stuff like that, you know things that makes teams bring about challenges that are based on personnel whether it's CPU or human controlled. I want it so a player that sees Rondo high overall rating and PPG statistics but doesn't realize he doesn't have a consistent jumper can't succeed shooting jumpers w/Rondo, not consistently anyway. My fear is: Master the stick get wide open J's w/non-shooters and whamo! success! Also I can see the game looking like an "And-1 mixed tape". That's just me though, if others don't feel that way so be it. At this point EA is looking for sales and I think the average fan knows nothing about real basketball fundamentals so to entice them you'll need to offer a highlight real in every play. Kobe hitting in your face fade aways, LBJ trucking down the lane, D. Howard spin move dunk, etc. That'll be sim because I saw it on TV. In the thread about camera angles some say it isn't sim if doesn't look like I'm watching it on TV. I say it's a sim of PLAYING basketball not watching it.
 
# 7 jfsolo @ 06/16/10 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
Interesting take, but to me the simple reason to not run in circles and throw up 3's is because it won't work as in real life. If effective defense is built into the game where the presence of a defender and a hand in the face makes the shot a lot more difficult or unlikely to go in there's no need of an artificial challenge such as can you push a stick in a straight line, etc. One would be required to use basketball knowledge to get open shots or good looks at the basket. That makes it a simulation of what basketball is about not a video game with basketball aspects.

I am not against the shot stick, I feel innovations such as those should be used to add functionality that previously wasn't possible, but not add a challenge that really doesn't exist in basketball. The latter in my opinion drives the game away from being a sim. IRL the mechanics of shooting a basketball aren't that hard it's being able to do them successfully with the various challenges brought on by the game. I don't mean I should be able to shoot with my eyes close using the shot stick, I just mean it shouldn't be what the challenge of the game is about. If the shot stick is "the challenge" you'll have guys that don't even know what a pick is mastering the shot stick and effectively playing the game. So don't get me wrong if the shot stick means I don't need a layup solution movie to get to the basket but I can do it on my own, I am all for it, but if it means no matter how open I am I got to master the split second release and ability to push a stick straight to score then we're not playing basketball it's the Shot Stick Challenge!

Further I haven't heard a single thing about "...we've improved game play..." I's been you can now do all this special stuff with the controls. Instantly that reminds me of the introduction of freestyle dribbling. Now guys can do all kinds of stuff that a real life player never could simply by mastering controls. I want DNA improved, and stuff like that, you know things that makes teams bring about challenges that are based on personnel whether it's CPU or human controlled. I want it so a player that sees Rondo high overall rating and PPG statistics but doesn't realize he doesn't have a consistent jumper can't succeed shooting jumpers w/Rondo, not consistently anyway. My fear is: Master the stick get wide open J's w/non-shooters and whamo! success! Also I can see the game looking like an "And-1 mixed tape". That's just me though, if others don't feel that way so be it. At this point EA is looking for sales and I think the average fan knows nothing about real basketball fundamentals so to entice them you'll need to offer a highlight real in every play. Kobe hitting in your face fade aways, LBJ trucking down the lane, D. Howard spin move dunk, etc. That'll be sim because I saw it on TV. In the thread about camera angles some say it isn't sim if doesn't look like I'm watching it on TV. I say it's a sim of PLAYING basketball not watching it.
Great Post. I concur 1000% Key points bolded for emphasis.
 
# 8 Jano @ 06/16/10 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
Interesting take, but to me the simple reason to not run in circles and throw up 3's is because it won't work as in real life. If effective defense is built into the game where the presence of a defender and a hand in the face makes the shot a lot more difficult or unlikely to go in there's no need of an artificial challenge such as can you push a stick in a straight line, etc. One would be required to use basketball knowledge to get open shots or good looks at the basket. That makes it a simulation of what basketball is about not a video game with basketball aspects.
These are great points man and I can agree with them especially the part about an effective defense being built in the game. And what I'm trying to say here is by expanding the control and putting more effort into stick skills you will have that defense you want.

In real life what allows people to play defense is the fact that they can do so many things to stop a player from scoring. A lot of the problems in these games now is they don't give the player enough options to work with.

As you expand controls which EA is trying to do by doing things like separating the body you give the player more ways to play D. And that is what will ultimately allow EA to weed out cheesers b/c they are providing weapons to prevent it from happening.

Adding in some rating or animation wont be enough if you don't have a way to control it when its needed.

And onto your point on the new shot stick I understand and you're fears are definitely legitimate. But I just have some hope that EA is going to do what they can to make it so that the game is easy to pick up and play but not so much that you will be able to turn terrible shooters into great ones.

I also can't see this EA team just saying hey lets make the shooting extremely easy to master. I'm sure they are doing what they can to make it almost impossible to hit 3pters with Shaq. Pared, Hoosier, Sovartus, P-Dub, have described the guys at EA as basketball guys.

So I'm sure they want this game to be as realistic as possible. But I'm not going to sit here and blindly say they are going to get everything perfect. You could be right but but I'm just gonna believe in the team and stay optimistic.
 
# 9 İroke @ 06/16/10 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
Interesting take, but to me the simple reason to not run in circles and throw up 3's is because it won't work as in real life. If effective defense is built into the game where the presence of a defender and a hand in the face makes the shot a lot more difficult or unlikely to go in there's no need of an artificial challenge such as can you push a stick in a straight line, etc. One would be required to use basketball knowledge to get open shots or good looks at the basket. That makes it a simulation of what basketball is about not a video game with basketball aspects.

I am not against the shot stick, I feel innovations such as those should be used to add functionality that previously wasn't possible, but not add a challenge that really doesn't exist in basketball. The latter in my opinion drives the game away from being a sim. IRL the mechanics of shooting a basketball aren't that hard it's being able to do them successfully with the various challenges brought on by the game. I don't mean I should be able to shoot with my eyes close using the shot stick, I just mean it shouldn't be what the challenge of the game is about. If the shot stick is "the challenge" you'll have guys that don't even know what a pick is mastering the shot stick and effectively playing the game. So don't get me wrong if the shot stick means I don't need a layup solution movie to get to the basket but I can do it on my own, I am all for it, but if it means no matter how open I am I got to master the split second release and ability to push a stick straight to score then we're not playing basketball it's the Shot Stick Challenge!

Further I haven't heard a single thing about "...we've improved game play..." I's been you can now do all this special stuff with the controls. Instantly that reminds me of the introduction of freestyle dribbling. Now guys can do all kinds of stuff that a real life player never could simply by mastering controls. I want DNA improved, and stuff like that, you know things that makes teams bring about challenges that are based on personnel whether it's CPU or human controlled. I want it so a player that sees Rondo high overall rating and PPG statistics but doesn't realize he doesn't have a consistent jumper can't succeed shooting jumpers w/Rondo, not consistently anyway. My fear is: Master the stick get wide open J's w/non-shooters and whamo! success! Also I can see the game looking like an "And-1 mixed tape". That's just me though, if others don't feel that way so be it. At this point EA is looking for sales and I think the average fan knows nothing about real basketball fundamentals so to entice them you'll need to offer a highlight real in every play. Kobe hitting in your face fade aways, LBJ trucking down the lane, D. Howard spin move dunk, etc. That'll be sim because I saw it on TV. In the thread about camera angles some say it isn't sim if doesn't look like I'm watching it on TV. I say it's a sim of PLAYING basketball not watching it.
While I agree with you for the most part of your post, when you're playing real basketball and you are wide open, you still got to shoot right to score. If you do something wrong, the ball most likely won't go in. That's the point of controlling your shots. If you miss, it will be your fault, just like in real life.
 
# 10 Tha_Kid @ 06/16/10 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jano
So I'm sure they want this game to be as realistic as possible. But I'm not going to sit here and blindly say they are going to get everything perfect. You could be right but but I'm just gonna believe in the team and stay optimistic.
Pretty much agree with Jano. I don't get why the opposite seems to be okay here though, for people to blindly speculate that everything will be messed up simply because "this is EA".

Instead of envisioning what the shooting could be like, why not read up on it as that would assuage this somehow rampant idea that getting the angle and timing down will equal a make regardless of ratings, defense, court position, etc. All the stick (not just shot stick since the RS controls hands, left to right movements for dribbling, up for shooting) is doing is replacing what pressing X used to do in order to give the user a little more control over the outcome. Not unlike taking movement from a dpad to an analog stick.

I'm agree with loadleft's philosophy about basketball gaming but not the tone of his post. The game was announced maybe a month ago, with no previews yet and an embargo for another week: How could you have heard anything about gameplay or AI yet? Every year, 2K/EA announce a feature or a talking point and people decry it because that must've been the only thing they worked on. Wait and find out, you've got 4 months before you give anyone your $60.
 
# 11 loadleft @ 06/16/10 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha_Kid
Pretty much agree with Jano. I don't get why the opposite seems to be okay here though, for people to blindly speculate that everything will be messed up simply because "this is EA".

Instead of envisioning what the shooting could be like, why not read up on it as that would assuage this somehow rampant idea that getting the angle and timing down will equal a make regardless of ratings, defense, court position, etc. All the stick (not just shot stick since the RS controls hands, left to right movements for dribbling, up for shooting) is doing is replacing what pressing X used to do in order to give the user a little more control over the outcome. Not unlike taking movement from a dpad to an analog stick.

I'm agree with loadleft's philosophy about basketball gaming but not the tone of his post. The game was announced maybe a month ago, with no previews yet and an embargo for another week: How could you have heard anything about gameplay or AI yet? Every year, 2K/EA announce a feature or a talking point and people decry it because that must've been the only thing they worked on. Wait and find out, you've got 4 months before you give anyone your $60.
I'm not sure what my tone is! At least not the one you're referring to. I usually post long drawn out comments so that reading between the lines is not needed and my point is clear. That said here it is short and sweet. I am a huge Live fan! I don't even play 2K, I've done so twice 2007 & 2009. I don't have an agenda. I am not against the shot stick. I believe the reason EA brought in guys from the community is to get comments and impressions early enough to be able to make changes, in turn I think expressing concerns here gets them seen also for the same reason. I think blindly doing anything would be turning against the proven track record that EA has and assuming that this time it'll be done right.

Jano we're not far apart, I am just harping on lets not go way over to the stick skills side and forget that this is basketball. When I was a kid there was a little game of table top basketball that had a vibrating court with holes in it. Inside the holes were these little spring loaded "shooters". The object was that as the ball rolled around and fell into one of these holes you had to trigger the shooter (kinda like pinball) to shoot the ball into the basket from that spot (the location of the hole). It required skill (lots of it) but not much basketball knowledge. I don't want to play that game anymore, you get my drift, LOL

Although I've answered why I don't think "wait and see" is the right move. Would someone from the wait and see crowd please explain to me what to do on a discussion board while you're waiting to see?
 
# 12 Tha_Kid @ 06/16/10 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
I'm not sure what my tone is! At least not the one you're referring to.
The tone in your posts seems to be "Assume the worst, hope for the best".

Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
I am a huge Live fan! I don't even play 2K, I've done so twice 2007 & 2009. I don't have an agenda. I am not against the shot stick.
Don't care. We're not talking about agendas or which game anyone likes more. We're only talking about basketball games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
I believe the reason EA brought in guys from the community is to get comments and impressions early enough to be able to make changes, in turn I think expressing concerns here gets them seen also for the same reason. I think blindly doing anything would be turning against the proven track record that EA has and assuming that this time it'll be done right.
Except you're expressing a concern that has been touched on in multiple threads by people who played the (alpha copy) game. I won't touch on "proven track record".

Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
Although I've answered why I don't think "wait and see" is the right move. Would someone from the wait and see crowd please explain to me what to do on a discussion board while you're waiting to see?
Discuss. Discuss what we've been shown, Discuss what you'd like to see, Discuss how things could be better. I'm all for expressing concerns and discussion about closing the realism gap between playing ball and playing ball. I just don't understand the negativity because of a perceived track record.
 
# 13 Evolved @ 06/16/10 07:03 PM
Bad link in the first post of this thread.
 
# 14 NINJAK2 @ 06/16/10 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
I'm not sure what my tone is! At least not the one you're referring to. I usually post long drawn out comments so that reading between the lines is not needed and my point is clear. That said here it is short and sweet. I am a huge Live fan! I don't even play 2K, I've done so twice 2007 & 2009. I don't have an agenda. I am not against the shot stick. I believe the reason EA brought in guys from the community is to get comments and impressions early enough to be able to make changes, in turn I think expressing concerns here gets them seen also for the same reason. I think blindly doing anything would be turning against the proven track record that EA has and assuming that this time it'll be done right.

Jano we're not far apart, I am just harping on lets not go way over to the stick skills side and forget that this is basketball. When I was a kid there was a little game of table top basketball that had a vibrating court with holes in it. Inside the holes were these little spring loaded "shooters". The object was that as the ball rolled around and fell into one of these holes you had to trigger the shooter (kinda like pinball) to shoot the ball into the basket from that spot (the location of the hole). It required skill (lots of it) but not much basketball knowledge. I don't want to play that game anymore, you get my drift, LOL

Although I've answered why I don't think "wait and see" is the right move. Would someone from the wait and see crowd please explain to me what to do on a discussion board while you're waiting to see?
You are doing a great job explaining your points load and I certainly see your points, I just don't know if I can agree with them entirely. To be good at any video game, stick skills are a huge requirement regarding being successful in the long run and it will probably always be that way. No matter what game you play (StreetFighter 4, COD, HALO, Madden, killzone, etc) how good you are on the sticks will usually play a huge part in whether you win or lose. These are in the long run just games that operate off of user input.

As in a football game like Madden, if you are good at calling your offensive plays but don't know how to put the right amount of touch on your pass attempts or use jukes, spins, etc you may not be as successful as you'd hope-no matter your knowledge. If you want BBALL knowledge to ultimately decide success, the only option is to get people to play coach mode with you where stick skills aren't pivotal to wins and losses. IMO their shot stick is just another way for users to seperate themselves from other users in the skill department.

If someone were to take the time to practice Rondo's jumpshot in practice mode and get down his timing and release to a science he should be able to hit that mid range more often if you leave him wide open. This doesn't mean he will hit like Kobe Bryant just that he may be more successful with him than someone else who doesn't put the time in with Rondo. I've seen games where Rondo has hit a fair amount of his mid range shots, the difference is that he isn't consistent. Those real life games where he is consistent could represent those moments where he is focused and shooting in rhythm.

I've always felt that if these hoop games want to ensure that knowledge plays an equal part in success (ex:running plays) I feel that players who run and complete plays should get an ever so slight upgrade in chance % of shots going in compared to the iso monster who attempts to give it to Kobe everytime down and runs no semblance of an offense.

Great posts by everyone here
 
# 15 Tha_Kid @ 06/16/10 07:17 PM
First post links haven't been working for me as well.

Re-reading the link, it sounds like something you really need to get your hands on to grasp how well it will work (Surprising, I know). Would be nice to get a writeup from a sports gaming site or just some random impressions from people at E3 but i haven't found anything. Elite 11's website says you can see the game at their booth though.
 
# 16 Tha_Kid @ 06/16/10 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NINJAK2
I've always felt that if these hoop games want to ensure that knowledge plays an equal part in success (ex:running plays) I feel that players who run and complete plays should get an ever so slight upgrade in chance % of shots going in compared to the iso monster who attempts to give it to Kobe everytime down and runs no semblance of an offense.


I was actually thinking the same thing when I first read Jano & loadleft's posts.
 
# 17 Jano @ 06/16/10 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft

Jano we're not far apart, I am just harping on lets not go way over to the stick skills side and forget that this is basketball. When I was a kid there was a little game of table top basketball that had a vibrating court with holes in it. Inside the holes were these little spring loaded "shooters". The object was that as the ball rolled around and fell into one of these holes you had to trigger the shooter (kinda like pinball) to shoot the ball into the basket from that spot (the location of the hole). It required skill (lots of it) but not much basketball knowledge. I don't want to play that game anymore, you get my drift, LOL
Lol! I get you man that's why I'm hoping these guys at EA make sure that shooting in this game does require some knowledge of the player along with skills on the stick.

If someone is stupid enough to start jacking 3's with Shaq or shooting fadeaways 3's with Kwame Brown I'd like to HOPE that just like irl that is extremely difficult shot to settle for.

Those types of shots especially with players that have no business out there should be damn near impossible to time. And even if the player has the ability to shoot tough shots (fades, leaners, etc) they should still be difficult to time, due to the degree of difficulty.

With all the factors I read about in the Q&A I dont think "shot masters" will be too much of problem. This is definitely one of those games we are only going to be able to judge until we get are hands on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NINJAK2

I've always felt that if these hoop games want to ensure that knowledge plays an equal part in success (ex:running plays) I feel that players who run and complete plays should get an ever so slight upgrade in chance % of shots going in compared to the iso monster who attempts to give it to Kobe everytime down and runs no semblance of an offense.
Great point right here Ninja and this is an area I can see the shot timing helping in. If you run plays you will have a higher chance of giving guys the ball in areas they can be successful in.

And since timing is going to be key here shooting the right type of shot will be important. If you run around shooting with Kobe all game you are going to have to put up a lot tough shots due to the defense which will make life that much harder for you.

I don't see how a player trying to jack shots with one guy will be able to beat one who knows how to run plays effectively. Especially if this years defensive controls are up to snuff this year.
 
# 18 loadleft @ 06/16/10 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha_Kid
Discuss. Discuss what we've been shown, Discuss what you'd like to see, Discuss how things could be better. I'm all for expressing concerns and discussion about closing the realism gap between playing ball and playing ball. I just don't understand the negativity because of a perceived track record.
I thought I was already following your rules for what I should say!

What I've been shown was the shot stick this year. More importantly (FOR ME) I've been shown EA pushing the next big feature without addressing the current problems. At any rate I think I said I am not wanting an easy shot mechanism just I don't want to "go too far to stick skills side" for me that doesn't stop at the shot stick it also includes freestyle moves which I became concerned about after watching one of the videos. I am concerned that if the D isn't as powerful as the ball handling is, then freestyle stick skills could be a problem. I've already expressed how I thought things could be better so I hope I have met your requirements for what I can and can't say [sarcasm].

"I just don't understand the negativity because of a perceived track record" is an interesting statement considering EA themselves have pretty much acknowledged as much in press releases and the name change itself. I'm pretty sure they didn't change to Elite because they thought it was cute! I won't address the tone part. As far as others who have played the game that only holds a small amount of value for me because I don't know their preferences and concerns. I am basing my opinions on my own past and current experiences and though I've enjoyed pretty much all the Lives to some degree, I feel I recognize this pattern, hype the new feature and not talk about the negatives. If I was remaking a bad image I'd start with addressing the detractions first then the innovations. Just me.

I don't feel I've said a single negative thing about the game, only things I'm concerned may be in the game based on what I've seen.
 
# 19 Behindshadows @ 06/17/10 04:35 AM
Honestly who cares about people's Impressions....why aren't we getting footage....I want to see and make my own impressions. So far E3 didn't deliver this season...basketball sports fans got hosed.

Maybe we'll get some nice gameplay videos in August or September. Because for now I don't see any news past more lame screenshots that are all pre-released and unfinished edits. And some more trailers of live action gameplay and empty stadiums.

Just disappointed overall...
 
# 20 natedZA @ 06/17/10 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadleft
Interesting take, but to me the simple reason to not run in circles and throw up 3's is because it won't work as in real life. If effective defense is built into the game where the presence of a defender and a hand in the face makes the shot a lot more difficult or unlikely to go in there's no need of an artificial challenge such as can you push a stick in a straight line, etc. One would be required to use basketball knowledge to get open shots or good looks at the basket. That makes it a simulation of what basketball is about not a video game with basketball aspects.

I am not against the shot stick, I feel innovations such as those should be used to add functionality that previously wasn't possible, but not add a challenge that really doesn't exist in basketball. The latter in my opinion drives the game away from being a sim. IRL the mechanics of shooting a basketball aren't that hard it's being able to do them successfully with the various challenges brought on by the game. I don't mean I should be able to shoot with my eyes close using the shot stick, I just mean it shouldn't be what the challenge of the game is about. If the shot stick is "the challenge" you'll have guys that don't even know what a pick is mastering the shot stick and effectively playing the game. So don't get me wrong if the shot stick means I don't need a layup solution movie to get to the basket but I can do it on my own, I am all for it, but if it means no matter how open I am I got to master the split second release and ability to push a stick straight to score then we're not playing basketball it's the Shot Stick Challenge!

Further I haven't heard a single thing about "...we've improved game play..." I's been you can now do all this special stuff with the controls. Instantly that reminds me of the introduction of freestyle dribbling. Now guys can do all kinds of stuff that a real life player never could simply by mastering controls. I want DNA improved, and stuff like that, you know things that makes teams bring about challenges that are based on personnel whether it's CPU or human controlled. I want it so a player that sees Rondo high overall rating and PPG statistics but doesn't realize he doesn't have a consistent jumper can't succeed shooting jumpers w/Rondo, not consistently anyway. My fear is: Master the stick get wide open J's w/non-shooters and whamo! success! Also I can see the game looking like an "And-1 mixed tape". That's just me though, if others don't feel that way so be it. At this point EA is looking for sales and I think the average fan knows nothing about real basketball fundamentals so to entice them you'll need to offer a highlight real in every play. Kobe hitting in your face fade aways, LBJ trucking down the lane, D. Howard spin move dunk, etc. That'll be sim because I saw it on TV. In the thread about camera angles some say it isn't sim if doesn't look like I'm watching it on TV. I say it's a sim of PLAYING basketball not watching it.
Surely though the shot stick mechanic will be harder to use with non-shooters and will also be harder to use when not open with a defenders hand in your face? I'm sure that's how they described it? This would still work to a "real" basketball fan's advantage as trying to get the open shot would be more advantageous then shooting when guarded. This would then obviously minimize luck while still giving that realistic edge as we all know professional players can make a shot with a defenders hand in their face.
 

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