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Backbreaker News Post



Check out the Backbreaker Developer diary #1 video.

1:03 - Legs driving breaking a tackle and keeps going
1:07 - Same thing
1:27 - Sack QB then Fumbles LOOKS NICE!!!!

Pros
Looks beautiful
Tackles and interactions are amazing

Cons
A lot of warping
Catch animations look funky

Overview
Looks promising but still looks too rigid, too much warping, and a general lack of polish across the board still.

Hope they can fix some of these issues because the engine alone is worth owning the game.

Game: BackbreakerReader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 50 - View All
Backbreaker Videos
Member Comments
# 1 major major @ 02/05/10 02:51 PM
Thx!
 
# 2 Pappy Knuckles @ 02/05/10 02:52 PM
It will be interesting to try out their control scheme. I can't remember any other football game where you spin using the analog.
 
# 3 Dudd @ 02/05/10 02:59 PM
AI looks like it needs some work, the pass defenders don't even attempt to make a play on the ball unless it's thrown right at them. I was hoping that with a full physics engine it would make things like that easier, just set both the defender and a receiver into pass catch mode and let the physics simulate the rest, but defenders stopping and moving away from the catch is a worrying sign. It's especially horrible at the 3:15 mark, it looks like both defenders try to move to the closest point on the ball's path despite the fact that the ball would be long gone by the time they reach that point, and it opens up tons of separation for the receiver. All the pretty tackling in the world is for naught if players don't accurately react to what is happening around them.
 
# 4 TheKasmar @ 02/05/10 03:13 PM
Now that was impressive. On the field, it just has that football feel to it and of course the euphoria element will keep things fresh. It's really exciting, as a football fan to see the potential of euphoria and how it could change the video football game world.
 
# 5 Phobia @ 02/05/10 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd
AI looks like it needs some work, the pass defenders don't even attempt to make a play on the ball unless it's thrown right at them. I was hoping that with a full physics engine it would make things like that easier, just set both the defender and a receiver into pass catch mode and let the physics simulate the rest, but defenders stopping and moving away from the catch is a worrying sign. It's especially horrible at the 3:15 mark, it looks like both defenders try to move to the closest point on the ball's path despite the fact that the ball would be long gone by the time they reach that point, and it opens up tons of separation for the receiver. All the pretty tackling in the world is for naught if players don't accurately react to what is happening around them.
Completely agree Dudd and looks like me and you both are saying same things on the BB boards.

I think the engine will be the honest downfall. If the AI is not perfect the weight and such of the players taking bad angles and such will completely break the game.

Football is a complex sport and having a perfect working AI for all 22 players is a tough feat to under take. I don't think the BB team has enough knowledge to succeed in this area.

The tackle engine will bring huge leaps to sports gaming but the AI in the game will ultimately make BB a failure.
 
# 6 TheKasmar @ 02/05/10 03:27 PM
What level was the AI being played on...Rookie? ...Pro?...ALL-Pro? I just don't know

Positives:

Double Team Blocks
Spectacular Mid Air Collisions
Proper football stances(realistic explosion out of stances)
Foot planting
 
# 7 Pappy Knuckles @ 02/05/10 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKasmar
What level was the AI being played on...Rookie? ...Pro?...ALL-Pro? I just don't know

Positives:

Double Team Blocks
Spectacular Mid Air Collisions
Proper football stances(realistic explosion out of stances)
Foot planting
Yeah, I don't think anybody should take but so much from this video. For all we know it could be user vs user or on a low difficulty. I will say that some of the animations look a little stiff, but I really don't have much of an opinion of this game yet. Hopefully we start getting the type of footage that we want soon.
 
# 8 Phobia @ 02/05/10 03:34 PM
First day I posted on the BB forums and I must say that is the biggest group of immature idiots I have ever neglected myself to.

I am a football fan first, these guys are blind fanboys. I stated that their are some key fundamentals off in the defense and spacing in many of the clips in the video and they make immature posts to get a rise.

Some people I will never understand.
 
# 9 roadman @ 02/05/10 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phobia
First day I posted on the BB forums and I must say that is the biggest group of immature idiots I have ever neglected myself to.

I am a football fan first, these guys are blind fanboys. I stated that their are some key fundmentals off in the defense and spacing in many of the clips in the video and they rip into me.

Some people I will never understand.
Well, a few of them come over here and defend the game to no end. I really don't think they are open minded to hearing others opinions which may sleight BB a bit.
 
# 10 roadman @ 02/05/10 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lofeazy
And you think OS is any better?( especially the madden section)
Yes, it is better over here including the Madden section. Opinions on both sides of the fence can be heard.
 
# 11 Phobia @ 02/05/10 03:52 PM
The funny thing is I am in BB corner hoping for it to be a great game. But I am also a football fan first and seeing some of the off X's and O's is a red flag to me so I state what I see wrong. Not in a attempt to bash the game but to bring to light some of the issues.

I think some people are just so closed minded they don't understand what it is to converse on a topic. In their little world someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong.

My perception of BB still stands though. I think the tech is going to be amazing and will push sports games in a direction we have always hoped for. But Backbreaker won't be the football game to take people away from 2k5 or Madden.

Ultimately the weight and physics of the Euphoria engine will break the defensive side of the game. Having a CB turn at the wrong moment bringing them out the play, having a linebacker take the wrong angle to the flats (ala Madden 10, just a single step can ruin a game and madden does not have true physics and it killed the flats), etc.

I think to many of these guys are not looking at this from the correct angle and when they get the game in their hands and go online and someone is using exploits to beat them they are going to be the same people going to the BB forums crying about a broken game.

I am more realistic in my expectations. I expect a amazing use of tackles, broken tackles, and FUN game. But I am also expecting a ton of fundamentals of FOOTBALL to be off that will hurt the online portion of the game.
 
# 12 TheKasmar @ 02/05/10 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lofeazy
I total agree with you on X's and O's.The aI didn't look good in the secondry.
Do blown assignments happen in football? Maybe the secondary didn't look good because they're poorly rated. Are people purposely ignoring the good play were the secondary responded at 28 sec.
 
# 13 roadman @ 02/05/10 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phobia
The funny thing is I am in BB corner hoping for it to be a great game. But I am also a football fan first and seeing some of the off X's and O's is a red flag to me so I state what I see wrong. Not in a attempt to bash the game but to bring to light some of the issues.

I think some people are just so closed minded they don't understand what it is to converse on a topic. In their little world someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong.

My perception of BB still stands though. I think the tech is going to be amazing and will push sports games in a direction we have always hoped for. But Backbreaker won't be the football game to take people away from 2k5 or Madden.

Ultimately the weight and physics of the Euphoria engine will break the defensive side of the game. Having a CB turn at the wrong moment bringing them out the play, having a linebacker take the wrong angle to the flats (ala Madden 10, just a single step can ruin a game and madden does not have true physics and it killed the flats), etc.

I think to many of these guys are not looking at this from the correct angle and when they get the game in their hands and go online and someone is using exploits to beat them they are going to be the same people going to the BB forums crying about a broken game.

I am more realistic in my expectations. I expect a amazing use of tackles, broken tackles, and FUN game. But I am also expecting a ton of fundamentals of FOOTBALL to be off that will hurt the online portion of the game.
I'm hoping it does very well too. It pushes the envelope in football gaming.

If I'm wrong, I stand corrected, but when I saw the QB's passing the ball, I thought it appeared that the QB's threw the ball without momentum.

Maybe my eyesight is going on me, though.
 
# 14 bigsmallwood @ 02/05/10 03:58 PM
I think that we should take that video for what it is...a developers video blog. It wasn't finalized gameplay, it wasn't even a true glimpse into what every down of football played will look like on Backbreaker. IT was just meant to highlight and show a few things and let the Devs make their points about their game understood.

With that said, the engine alone makes this game buyable. The gameplay looked decent, but I can't make a call on it until we see ACTUAL gameplay player vs. CPU or Player vs. player....right now we know nothing. Lets be patient. Madden should really have adopted this system....it looks GREAT in that aspect...compared with canned animations. We will see what both have to offer this year! I'm excited!
 
# 15 Dudd @ 02/05/10 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKasmar
Do blown assignments happen in football? Maybe the secondary didn't look good because they're poorly rated. Are people purposely ignoring the good play were the secondary responded at 28 sec.
Blown assignments should happen, but they should be realistic in nature. When a football player makes a mistake, he usually has a reason to do so, either he mistakenly jumped a short route and left a deep man uncovered or bit on a playfake or something like that. The footage in this trailer showed some fundamentally flawed AI routines where they were reacting to the ball instead of the man. Defenders in football are smart enough to only react to the ball when they have a good chance at actually breaking up the pass, otherwise they make tackling the receiver the number one priority, here it seemed like defensive players were programmed to respond only to the football instead of deciding whether to play the ball or anticipate the catch. Hopefully it gets fixed like the dev who responded said it was/will, but I'll believe it when I see it, too often game makers promise something in a trailer was just an old version that would be fixed before it went gold, only to see that same issue appear in the finished game. Football is a game of angles, if those are off the entire gameplay can come out broken.
 
# 16 jyoung @ 02/05/10 04:05 PM
Those sacks looks sweet!

Can't wait to take this one out on the field.
 
# 17 TheKasmar @ 02/05/10 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Afrikan
also, not to lower standards, but is there a football to compare this to....I mean defensive AI is hard to implement, unless you let the CPU cheat (like in years past Madden)..
This is all very interesting. I cant wait to see what a simple swat animation will do. Most of us have seen the pre-determined animations of past football games but, I wonder what the Backbreaker engine will bring to the table? Will it be more of the same or will euphoria help make the 1-on-1 battle between a reciever and defensive back truly unpredictable? For example, A wide reciever tripping over the feet of a defensive back.
 
# 18 Phobia @ 02/05/10 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd
Blown assignments should happen, but they should be realistic in nature. When a football player makes a mistake, he usually has a reason to do so, either he mistakenly jumped a short route and left a deep man uncovered or bit on a playfake or something like that. The footage in this trailer showed some fundamentally flawed AI routines where they were reacting to the ball instead of the man. Defenders in football are smart enough to only react to the ball when they have a good chance at actually breaking up the pass, otherwise they make tackling the receiver the number one priority, here it seemed like defensive players were programmed to respond only to the football instead of deciding whether to play the ball or anticipate the catch. Hopefully it gets fixed like the dev who responded said it was/will, but I'll believe it when I see it, too often game makers promise something in a trailer was just an old version that would be fixed before it went gold, only to see that same issue appear in the finished game.
I noticed same thing. The secondary was playing the football not the situation. Now that you said, that. That is why the Safety was off the WR 15 or so yards. He was playing the pass reading it going deep and the WR just jumped up and caught it.

I hope they fix the AI. This could be a epic game if they can pull it out. If the AI remains broken at launch I will
 
# 19 Phobia @ 02/05/10 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKasmar
This is all very interesting. I cant wait to see what a simple swat animation will do. Most of us have seen the pre-determined animations of past football games but, I wonder what the Backbreaker engine will bring to the table? Will it be more of the same or will euphoria help make the 1-on-1 battle between a reciever and defensive back truly unpredictable? For example, A wide reciever tripping over the feet of a defensive back.
That would be interesting . Seeing a true 1 on 1 battle of WR/CB would be a thing of dreams.

I am mostly interested in the secondary at the moment. Some key looking issues out there.
 
# 20 jyoung @ 02/05/10 04:10 PM
Who knows what difficulty that video was on, so it may have played a part in the coverage being so bad.

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about the AI until the final product is in my hands.

For now, let's just marvel at how great the player-to-player contact looks!
 

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