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# 1 MizzouRah @ 08/22/09 12:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottdau
Those Arenas are intense. I can't wait for road trips.
Yes they do.. still no word on the intros huh? ;-)
 
# 2 Uncle Stumpy @ 08/22/09 08:29 AM
Last year for the first time ever (2k9) I didn't even touch the game, it was all about EA. I MIGHT rent this just to compare. The only thing 2K has consistently beaten EA is in the franchise mode area.
 
# 3 tyler289 @ 08/22/09 09:57 AM
I'm amazed at how they can butcher their cover athlete so bad but make the other players look solid.
 
# 4 tyler289 @ 08/22/09 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baa7
Huh, whadda ya mean?? He looks exactly like Kurt Suzuki does in real life!
lmao, it's amazing how truly awful Ovechkin looked in that teaser trailer. Might have been the worst trailer I've ever seen in my life, for any video game.
 
# 5 Eddie1967 @ 08/22/09 10:46 AM
Now that's what arena's should look like. It's going to a joy playing on the road this year. So many things to see and hear. I hear EA NHL 10 still has generic arena's. If that's true they should be ashamed. What is this year 19? of the EA series and still no true arena's or atmosphere. Another reason why that game is only a rental for me year after year. NHL 2K10 is going to be a fun and exciting game. It's pretty obvious how much VC has upgraded their product this year.
 
# 6 Eddie1967 @ 08/22/09 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baa7
"Ashamed" isn't the word I'd use. "Rolling in the dough from all the development money they saved by not upgrading the game's presentation in the slightest in four years" is how I'd put it. Okay, make that "words" I'd use.
LOL, I guess what's shameful are the fans who support them without demanding changes to an important part of the game. Remember "if it's in the game, it's in the game". I guess they are smart for not doing it if it saves them money, but without that they will never get fans like me who like the presentation side and little things of sports to like their game.
 
# 7 Ridgeberg @ 08/22/09 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baa7
"Ashamed" isn't the word I'd use. "Rolling in the dough from all the development money they saved by not upgrading the game's presentation in the slightest in four years" is how I'd put it. Okay, make that "words" I'd use.
Actually, it probably isn't as cut and dry as that, is it? From Redshirt_EA:

"The size of the presentation and gameplay "teams" is still a resource allocation decision. We can't have our cake and eat it too.

There were presentation improvements (e.g. crowds, to mention an obvious one), they are just in proportion to the investment we made there."

I am sure the NHL2K team faces similar budget restraints, it is possible that they chose to concentrate on arenas over everything else. I'd guess that this is a possibility considering that their stick models have not changed since NHL2K3.

Here, I will even give you a side by side...



We could sit around a nitpick all day...complaining is a great way to evoke reaction and get attention OR we could make the best of what we have. I understand that it is your right to express your opinion and I think it is great that you so freely do so. In that same vein, your comment was not opinion inasmuch as it is slander. Could you provide the message board with the financial statement from EA Sports NHL franchise? I'd be interested to examine the profit margins, considering they are rolling in the dough, due to the fact that they haven't "upgraded the games' presentation and arenas in four years." Madden 09 sold 2.38 million copies for the XBOX 360 in the US last year...NHL 09 sold 0.52 million copies on the XBOX 360 in the US last year. Here is my source. The fact remains that no game will ever be perfect and we are lucky to have two manufacturers making hockey games, something that NFL and MLB fans cannot experience. And if we conclude that budget is determined by sales, we could hypothesize that Madden's budget is roughly five times as large as the NHL budget. Considering the product that the EA Sports NHL team puts out at 1/5th the budget, I'd say we are extremely fortunate. I'd guess that the 2K team operates at a similar budget and their product is admirable as well.

Ultimately, I do not see how your comments are productive. What exactly are you trying to convey? That big companies like EA Sports do not give a crap about their customer and are only focused on the bottom line? If so, let me congratulate you for stumbling upon this epiphany!
 
# 8 Ridgeberg @ 08/22/09 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottdau
Not really but EA is going for gameplay first. Which is OK, but if they want to get more people they should go for presentation first. I have a feeling that more kids and adults would buy the game. People want a game that they can pick up and play and look good too. I am not saying all people. But in all honesty to you think the majority of video gamers want real sim or do you think that i still a minority? On here that is a majority, but in the World what do you guys think?
I agree that to much of the "gaming world" realism is probably an afterthought, heck, just play an online game of NHL09. The players that win the most try to play as unrealistic as possible or try to take advantage of a couple programming mistakes.

On that note, other than arenas, can you honestly say that NHL2K has better presentation than any of EA Sports games? The biggest knock on EA Sports before Peter Moore took over was that they get away with horrendous gameplay by making everything look pretty. Like Baa said above, the NHL2K player models are pretty bad. If you look closely at the two pictures in my previous post, the players don't even look THAT much different, save for the new sheen on the 2K10 graphics and the incorporation of player faces and high definition. The player models is one of the reasons I cannot stay interested in NHL2K. I can't get into it. You could draw a parallel to the FIFA/Pro Evolution dichotomy on the PS2. FIFA had all of the licensed teams and looked fantastic, but played like mud. Pro Evo on the other hand had few team licenses but the gameplay engine was unreal, plus you could customize everything. If 2K's gameplay was above and beyond NHL, then perhaps I could give it more time, but truth be told, it is not. It is unfathomable that they still have not moved shooting to the Right Stick. EA made an innovation there and hit pay dirt, there is no shame in copying.

And back to your original point, I would imagine the "pick up and play" factor is huge to game sales. I think this makes NHL10 even more appealing when you consider how much customization they have provided this year. Want to play a video game that tries to mimic real life hockey? Great, adjust the settings to Hardcore/Superstar, after that, if there is something you don't like, adjust the sliders. Want to play a fast, end to end, high scoring, hard checking game of arcade hockey? Great, adjust the settings to Rookie/Casual.

I understand that people have different preferences and that they may enjoy and have a higher priority for certain things. That is great and what makes the ability to choose fantastic. I start taking issue when people start to lose focus on what this is all really about, having a fun time.
 
# 9 Ridgeberg @ 08/22/09 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baa7
That EA's NHL development team has spent little or no effort on the presentation in four years, which has everything to do with saving the corporation money. I thought I made that clear.
And how has that worked out for them? Let's see, NHL2K9 sold 0.12 million copies on the XBOX 360 last year. So, NHL09 sold roughly 4.5 times more copies. When making a business decision, it is usually wise to examine trends and the like. Considering that the EA product sold almost five times the amount as the 2K product, AND considering that 2K had the better "presentation" (and I will put presentation in quotes because I think the only thing 2K did better was the arena, not commentary or player models), it would make sense to allocate more funds towards gameplay, because obviously, presentation didn't really help 2K's sales.

So, yes, you are right. Thank you for restating was Redshirt_EA has already made clear. Whoever is in charge of allocating resources ("for the past four years") has not been heavily investing in presentation. Awesome.
 
# 10 daflyboys @ 08/22/09 02:17 PM
Gee... I can't wait until the next set of photos and a new review so that we can have the same discussions over and over again. Riveting.
 
# 11 Eddie1967 @ 08/22/09 03:06 PM
Yes we are. I could care less about EA's sales numbers. Their game doesn't appeal to me and that is all that matters. EA has a cult following and that's what I attest a lot of their games popularity to. How on earth EA NHL won 12 awards last year is mind boggling considering it just added a few things to NHL10 that 2K9 had already. It looks like 2k has stepped up in all areas of their game (at least from the vids) and EA has yet to do the one thing that draws me to a game and that would be to upgrade their horrendous presentation. Sales numbers? blah blah blah. Doesn't mean a thing to someone who doesn't like their product.
 
# 12 Ridgeberg @ 08/22/09 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie1967
Yes we are. I could care less about EA's sales numbers. Their game doesn't appeal to me and that is all that matters. EA has a cult following and that's what I attest a lot of their games popularity to. How on earth EA NHL won 12 awards last year is mind boggling considering it just added a few things to NHL10 that 2K9 had already. It looks like 2k has stepped up in all areas of their game (at least from the vids) and EA has yet to do the one thing that draws me to a game and that would be to upgrade their horrendous presentation. Sales numbers? blah blah blah. Doesn't mean a thing to someone who doesn't like their product.
The 12 awards thing is purely PR. I also think that it is a combined 12 awards from 08 and 09 plus I'm willing to bet that there are some wonky websites that gave them awards, but in this instance EA doesn't care because it is a great PR line.

And regarding sales numbers, I was not trying to make a case that because EA has better sales numbers they have a better game. I was trying to demonstrate to Baa that, from a fiscal standpoint, given limited funds to allocate each year, EA's decision to invest more heavily in gameplay has paid off, due to their overwhelmingly positive sales numbers compared to 2K, who according to some, has a better presentation.

I am happy that the 2K game appeals to you and hope you get enough enjoyment from it to justify your purchase. The reason I posted a couple of times in this topic is because I took issue with careless comments that displayed nothing but unabashed vitriol for seemingly no other reason but to hate. I am no loyalist by any means. I will give the 2K game a chance, like I do every year, when the demo comes out. Additionally, I do not think I am defending a particular company. I think I am making certain individuals aware of careless statements they make, in order to promote fair, intellectual discussion on a hobby we all enjoy.
 
# 13 daflyboys @ 08/22/09 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottdau
I guess Football, Eddie and me are the only ones that think this game is fun and will rock.
Well then, their sales numbers just tripled from the projection I posted in the other thread (of 84 preview/review/screenshot/replay threads).
 
# 14 MizzouRah @ 08/22/09 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottdau
Nope have you played the demo NHL10? I still love the way this game is looking. I want to see this in action.
Yes.. having a blast too. Hopefully 2k's demo is coming very soon...
 
# 15 MizzouRah @ 08/22/09 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie1967
Now that's what arena's should look like. It's going to a joy playing on the road this year. So many things to see and hear. I hear EA NHL 10 still has generic arena's. If that's true they should be ashamed. What is this year 19? of the EA series and still no true arena's or atmosphere. Another reason why that game is only a rental for me year after year. NHL 2K10 is going to be a fun and exciting game. It's pretty obvious how much VC has upgraded their product this year.
Ashamed.. lol... uh.. ok...
 
# 16 MizzouRah @ 08/22/09 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie1967
LOL, I guess what's shameful are the fans who support them without demanding changes to an important part of the game. Remember "if it's in the game, it's in the game". I guess they are smart for not doing it if it saves them money, but without that they will never get fans like me who like the presentation side and little things of sports to like their game.
I like presentation too.. but again, in franchise mode.. there were NO intros in 2k's game, just players skating onto the ice and the commentary was nothing close to EA's.

You say EA spent no money on arenas.. what about 2k spending money on good commentary?
 
# 17 Eddie1967 @ 08/22/09 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baa7
I laughed too when I saw that particular word, but he has a point nonetheless. It's pretty bad when they don't bother to change a single thing with the presentation from one year to the next. And given it's been four years with what amounts to the identical presentation, I think it's more than fair to say they are slacking off in that area of the game's development, big time.
Yeah that was the wrong word to use I admit. It's not like EA hockey is a bad game. I could play it long term if it were the only choice but with the competition it's just not my cup of tea. Saving money is cool, but why not make the game the best it cold be in all areas. They should at least attempt to improve the presentation. Maybe not to the level of 2k (although that would be nice), but at least have the real arena's. I swear I want to have the problem of choosing between two hockey games or playing both, but until they do that I just can't see myself investing the time and money for that game. I think the demo is fun by the way but the subpar presentation really takes away from an otherwise good product.
 
# 18 Eddie1967 @ 08/22/09 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottdau
I don't know what it is about 2K animation, but there are some amazing animations and some not so hot! But it just feel more real. The skates look like they are digging into the ice. The player faces look better than EA's at least to me. When I was playing the demo. When the teams did their hand shakes, some of the players faces were very odd looking. I think they took a hit this year.
For a long time I always thought EA's game looked better and maybe it did in the past but like you said that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. EA's graphic look like they took a step back this year.
 
# 19 Eddie1967 @ 08/22/09 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizzouRah
I like presentation too.. but again, in franchise mode.. there were NO intros in 2k's game, just players skating onto the ice and the commentary was nothing close to EA's.

You say EA spent no money on arenas.. what about 2k spending money on good commentary?
Yeah that sucked last year. There is no point in having intros if they are only for the playoffs. I would be highly disappointed if they did that this year. I like the commentary in 2k, but I understand it's not for everybody. EA's announcers definitely "sound" better but i don't their lines are any better, if that makes sense. I'm all for both games going all out to improve their weak areas.
 
# 20 Eddie1967 @ 08/22/09 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgeberg
The 12 awards thing is purely PR. I also think that it is a combined 12 awards from 08 and 09 plus I'm willing to bet that there are some wonky websites that gave them awards, but in this instance EA doesn't care because it is a great PR line.

And regarding sales numbers, I was not trying to make a case that because EA has better sales numbers they have a better game. I was trying to demonstrate to Baa that, from a fiscal standpoint, given limited funds to allocate each year, EA's decision to invest more heavily in gameplay has paid off, due to their overwhelmingly positive sales numbers compared to 2K, who according to some, has a better presentation.

I am happy that the 2K game appeals to you and hope you get enough enjoyment from it to justify your purchase. The reason I posted a couple of times in this topic is because I took issue with careless comments that displayed nothing but unabashed vitriol for seemingly no other reason but to hate. I am no loyalist by any means. I will give the 2K game a chance, like I do every year, when the demo comes out. Additionally, I do not think I am defending a particular company. I think I am making certain individuals aware of careless statements they make, in order to promote fair, intellectual discussion on a hobby we all enjoy.
Great post. I'm still playing the EA demo because the game play is good. I'm trying my hardest to give this game a "fair" chance this year.
 

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