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Madden 09 News Post

That's right, straight from Peter Moore and his updated blog post entitled, Madden 20th Anniversary and More! According to his post, there will be no PC version this year. Wow...

Quote:
"We knew that our decision to not develop this year’s Madden for the PC would be an unpopular decision in some circles. But I’ll reiterate what I said a couple of weeks ago in this space…the PC presents some very serious business challenges to us in the sports category, particularly because so many of you all are playing your favorite sports games on the PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii. We are committed to shipping a limited number of our games on the PC this year, but we’ve also had to cut a few of our games from the platform. We do have ideas for how to revitalize the PC for sports games and the types of games that are best suited to the platform, and we’ll continue to explore those."

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Member Comments
# 1 PlayaHataSupreme @ 04/02/08 08:39 PM
I guess he knows the economics of the Madden PC game better than I do because from where I'm sitting Madden = cash cow.......... and I thought it was all about the $$$.

And I would think that the development costs would be cheap assuming they are using the PS2 engine.......... maybe I'm missing something here?
 
# 2 umd @ 04/02/08 09:07 PM
Is EA going out of their way to alienate their entire *current* fan base? Sure looks like it to me.
 
# 3 MMChrisS @ 04/02/08 09:27 PM
I highly doubt Madden for the PC was making that much money to begin with if this decision was made. I don't want to defend killing off what has been a tradition for a long time, but it's not like the PC market is going gangbusters.

With that said though, I'm actually really shocked at this. I didn't expect them to pull the plug on it this year, I can't even imagine what folks at sites like FootballFreaks are thinking right now.
 
# 4 Nza @ 04/02/08 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMChrisS
I highly doubt Madden for the PC was making that much money to begin with if this decision was made. I don't want to defend killing off what has been a tradition for a long time, but it's not like the PC market is going gangbusters.

With that said though, I'm actually really shocked at this. I didn't expect them to pull the plug on it this year, I can't even imagine what folks at sites like FootballFreaks are thinking right now.
It's mixed. Some reactions are expected - rejection from EA after years now of 2nd class treatment, etc. It stinks because these guys have continued to buy the game in hope of better days; in support of the series. Many saw the arrival of DX10 and Vista as hope of such days, but instead EA's new top dog obviously puts his console/360 agenda at the forefront and spits out a measly paragraph in an obscure blog belitting the community as some "circle" of insignificant customers.

Other reactions are actually positive. Despite EA's efforts (or lack thereof), Madden 08 PC was the best version last year in almost all facets. A large part of that reason was because of community add-ons. 1985 rosters, NCAA rosters, editors etc, and the recent ability to edit the game's textures. Right now a few people are making kick *** NCAA uniforms without the crappy restrictions of Madden's in built uniform designer. A fair amount of people will be relatively happy to continue playing 08 PC including myself, because there's a good chance it will still be the best version. After all, chances are 09 PC would have just been a *tiny* upgrade over 08 PC anyway, just like 08 PC was for 07 PC. If you've heard of MVP Baseball PC, you'll know that is a series still going strong on PC despite its cancellation years ago, due to user updating and addons. Madden can be much the same. There are about half as many users over at Football-Freaks as there is here at OS, and OS covers all sports gaming, not just a "niche" version of a game supported by "some circles". I think it's an error for Moore to assume the PC fanbase will happily merge to the console versions because many PC gamers play the PC version for a good reason - a reason that won't change in 09.

There is no doubt Madden PC didn't sell anywhere close to the console versions, but it wouldn't have costed anywhere near what they cost to make either. It was a direct PS2 port. Keep this in mind - go over to VGChartz.com (I think it is) and see how well Madden 08 sold for the DS - and yet it is still getting a 09 and I'd say EA actually have to make a unique DS copy of the game and not just easily port another across. EASports have been wanting to kill PC for a long time now and they finally got their wish, on the series' 20th anniversary no less. 20 years ago, there was a title known as John Madden Football on the PC DOS platform that helped start this whole series, and for a while there EASports were *lucky* to have such a strong following from their PC fan base. Now, we're trash. No loyalty, not even equal treatment anymore. While Moore and EA spout off on how much the PC stinks as a game console, the reality is, when you release the same title year after year with little to no effort to make it a unique PC game, it won't sell well. It may fly on the console, it just doesn't on the PC. One would be wise to perhaps see this outcome as a possible window into the future for EA, if user expectations grow on all platforms and they don't shape up.

Hopefully this move is a blessing in disguise though, inspiring some other up and coming company to start their 20 year football franchise on a platform that cares - John Madden Football wasn't a licensed NFL game when it started, either.
 
# 5 Cusefan @ 04/02/08 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by umd
Is EA going out of their way to alienate their entire *current* fan base? Sure looks like it to me.
Yea there going to Alienate their HUGE Fan base. I used to be a diehard PC gamer but PC's just are not as big of a game machine as they once were. I remember when the great games came out on PC first then were ported over to consoles, now its almost always consoles getting games first then getting ported over to PC.

I hate to say it but PC gaming is dying and i dont see anything that is going to bring it back...
 
# 6 MMChrisS @ 04/02/08 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cusefan
Yea there going to Alienate their HUGE Fan base. I used to be a diehard PC gamer but PC's just are not as big of a game machine as they once were. I remember when the great games came out on PC first then were ported over to consoles, now its almost always consoles getting games first then getting ported over to PC.

I hate to say it but PC gaming is dying and i dont see anything that is going to bring it back...
I wonder what exactly has done PC gaming in? I would venture to guess just as many people have PCs as do consoles in their houses. Is it because software and hardware advanced too fast for the average consumer to keep up with? Nowadays, your system is good for 1 year at best if you spend $800 on it for PC gaming...sometimes that's not even enough. If you spent $3000 you got a machine that'll last you 3 years where with a console you spent $400 for a machine that is good for 5-6 years easy. I don't know but that seems to be the case here
 
# 7 Cusefan @ 04/02/08 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMChrisS
I wonder what exactly has done PC gaming in? I would venture to guess just as many people have PCs as do consoles in their houses. Is it because software and hardware advanced too fast for the average consumer to keep up with? Nowadays, your system is good for 1 year at best if you spend $800 on it for PC gaming...sometimes that's not even enough. If you spent $3000 you got a machine that'll last you 3 years where with a console you spent $400 for a machine that is good for 5-6 years easy. I don't know but that seems to be the case here
Exactly, take Cyrsis for example, a awesome game but if you want to run the game on max setting your looking at a 2500-3000 dollar machine, easy. I gotta pretty good computer for playing the games that i like for PC(Company of Heros and Civilization 4). But im not even sure my computer could run Crysis. One day when Kickass hardware is cheap ill buy it and play the games i am missing out on now...
 
# 8 Nza @ 04/02/08 10:18 PM
PC gaming isn't dieing, it's evolving. Nothing can touch WOW, Sims etc sales, not even Madden 360. PC gaming is still 50% of why EA are the biggest and probably 55% by the time Spore is released. BTW, there are MANY more PC's actively used in the world than consoles, of course they're not all 3D game ready.

PC gaming has *always* been a genre specific platform - but then consoles have been too. RTS and FPS on a console? Not until recently. And it's only happened recently partly because developers can get away with it probably because most console gamers don't play on PC to know how it should be - both genres are still vastly superior on a PC.

Hardware costs are pretty iffy as a point as you have plenty of extra costs with consoles - games cost more, maybe you buy that bigger TV, maybe you buy those 5.1 speakers, maybe you get this and that accessories. All in all you're talking a few $100 either way every couple of years IMO - not a huge deal for a lot of people. Most people have hobbies, PC gaming is a hobby more so than console. This is why PC gaming is seen as a more mature platform - the costs involve attrach more people with jobs and an income where as consoles can more easily be gifts for kids.

I like to compare PC and console gaming to photography. For most people, a simple Sony point-and-shoot camera will do fine. Hell, some point-and-shoot cameras are damn good in quality now days. But the enthusiast and power user will always settle for a SLR camera (or DSLR now days). The interchangeable lenses, the improved image quality, the ability to fire off 10 shots in a second, the community elements, etc are second to none. A DSLR will cost a lot more (much more than PC relative to console), but it's worth it for some people, and the same can be said for PC gaming. It will never "die", and it isn't "dieing" - it's just adjusting. MMORPG is what FPS used to be for the PC.
 
# 9 Nza @ 04/02/08 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cusefan
Exactly, take Cyrsis for example, a awesome game but if you want to run the game on max setting your looking at a 2500-3000 dollar machine, easy. I gotta pretty good computer for playing the games that i like for PC(Company of Heros and Civilization 4). But im not even sure my computer could run Crysis. One day when Kickass hardware is cheap ill buy it and play the games i am missing out on now...
That's the idea, though. Like Far Cry before it, Crysis wasn't designed to break sales records on launch day. Hardware has to catch up to it, and it will. They just released it when they did for the people who do maintain top end PC's.
 
# 10 Skyboxer @ 04/02/08 10:40 PM
Units sold - Top 10 for 2007 (NPD numbers)

PC

1. World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade – (Vivendi) – 2.25 million
2. World of Warcraft– (Vivendi) – 914K
3. The Sims 2 – (Electronic Arts) – 534K
4. The Sims 2 Seasons Expansion Pack – (Electronic Arts) – 433K
5. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare – (Activision) – 383K
6. Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars – (Electronic Arts) – 350K
7. MS Age of Empires III – (Microsoft) – 313K
8. Sim City 4 - (Electronic Arts) – 294K
9. MS Flight Simulator X - (Microsoft) - 280K
10.The Sims 2: Bon Voyage Expansion Pack – (Electronic Arts) – 272K

Console

360 HALO 3 4.82 million
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 4.12 million

360 CALL OF DUTY 4: MODERN WARFARE 3.04 million

PS2 GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK 2.72 million

WII SUPER MARIO GALAXY 2.52 million

NDS POKEMON DIAMOND 2.48 million

PS2 MADDEN NFL 08 1.90 million

PS2 GUITAR HERO 2 1.89 million

360 ASSASSIN'S CREED 1.87 million

WII MARIO PARTY 8 1.82 million


I don't really blame EA.
 
# 11 umd @ 04/02/08 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cusefan
Yea there going to Alienate their HUGE Fan base
I meant alienating overall not just PC. Look at the comments by Moore about dumbing down the control on consoles so more casual players can pick it up. Needless to say that little nugget hasn't gone over so well here at OS.

Madden being dead on PC just means the modders will step up and run with the game like MVP. It's not like EA improves any (consoles or PC) of their titles by much each year.
 
# 12 Nza @ 04/02/08 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyboxer
Units sold - Top 10 for 2007 (NPD numbers)

PC

1. World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade – (Vivendi) – 2.25 million
2. World of Warcraft– (Vivendi) – 914K
3. The Sims 2 – (Electronic Arts) – 534K
4. The Sims 2 Seasons Expansion Pack – (Electronic Arts) – 433K
5. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare – (Activision) – 383K
6. Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars – (Electronic Arts) – 350K
7. MS Age of Empires III – (Microsoft) – 313K
8. Sim City 4 - (Electronic Arts) – 294K
9. MS Flight Simulator X - (Microsoft) - 280K
10.The Sims 2: Bon Voyage Expansion Pack – (Electronic Arts) – 272K

Console

360 HALO 3 4.82 million
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 4.12 million

360 CALL OF DUTY 4: MODERN WARFARE 3.04 million

PS2 GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK 2.72 million

WII SUPER MARIO GALAXY 2.52 million

NDS POKEMON DIAMOND 2.48 million

PS2 MADDEN NFL 08 1.90 million

PS2 GUITAR HERO 2 1.89 million

360 ASSASSIN'S CREED 1.87 million

WII MARIO PARTY 8 1.82 million


I don't really blame EA.
First of all, I *never* for the life of me understood why sales charts stack PC in one category, and EVERY console in another. It isn't fair at all, PS2 and Xbox is as different as PC and Xbox - hell, an Xbox is closer to a PC technically speaking. If anything, consoles are more competitors with each other than PC since plenty of people will have a game PC and console - why on earth they bunch them together is a mystery to me.

Secondly, go look at total sales. The Sims for PC has sold over 50 million copies collectively. The Sims 2, over 100m including expansion packs. Keep in mind, a lot of PC game sales also happen online now, either streamed or via online stores - neither of which typically count in sales charts. For example, Assassin's Creed PC will be available via Steam. There are over 15 million user accounts on Steam alone, and there are quite a few other digital delivery systems out there - Direct2Drive, EA has one, a few large European strategy game makers have one. Like usual, PC is just ahead of the curve. One day digital delivery will dominate consoles too.
 
# 13 jmood88 @ 04/03/08 01:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nza

Hardware costs are pretty iffy as a point as you have plenty of extra costs with consoles - games cost more, maybe you buy that bigger TV, maybe you buy those 5.1 speakers, maybe you get this and that accessories. All in all you're talking a few $100 either way every couple of years IMO - not a huge deal for a lot of people. Most people have hobbies, PC gaming is a hobby more so than console. This is why PC gaming is seen as a more mature platform - the costs involve attrach more people with jobs and an income where as consoles can more easily be gifts for kids.

I like to compare PC and console gaming to photography. For most people, a simple Sony point-and-shoot camera will do fine. Hell, some point-and-shoot cameras are damn good in quality now days. But the enthusiast and power user will always settle for a SLR camera (or DSLR now days). The interchangeable lenses, the improved image quality, the ability to fire off 10 shots in a second, the community elements, etc are second to none. A DSLR will cost a lot more (much more than PC relative to console), but it's worth it for some people, and the same can be said for PC gaming. It will never "die", and it isn't "dieing" - it's just adjusting. MMORPG is what FPS used to be for the PC.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...=7559&Itemid=2
I really don't know how you can look at how the internet is and say that PC gamers are "more mature" unless somehow all the immature people on the internet just throw their computers aside when it comes to games and only play on consoles.
 
# 14 chiefs_fan @ 04/03/08 03:57 AM
I'm shocked they aren't releasing 09 on PC. What very serious business challenges is he referring to? Madden pc has been an afterthought for awhile adding not much more than roster updates to the game. How much can that cost? I believe they just don't want to update the graphics engine into the next gen. Ironically this would increase sales.

Whats next Evil A**holes? Gonna but the makers of WoW or the entire human race?
 
# 15 Nza @ 04/03/08 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmood88
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...=7559&Itemid=2
I really don't know how you can look at how the internet is and say that PC gamers are "more mature" unless somehow all the immature people on the internet just throw their computers aside when it comes to games and only play on consoles.
Mature....as in age wise. Sorry, probably should have made that more clear. PC gaming has more ongoing costs that is only for gaming, where as consoles share a lot of their costs with TV/movie viewing etc. Like a big screen TV - one could easily set you back more than a top end PC but then it enhances everything you do on a TV. On the other hand, a 8900GTX won't enhance your experience browsing the net and writing up school reports. So with this in mind, whilst I think the ongoing costs of both PC and console gaming is actually a lot closer than some think, PC gaming's more regular costs, perhaps less "family friendly" features, and favourtism towards advanced computer knowledge (build your own pc, overclocking, performance tweaking = cost savings), means it is better suited for older "mature" gamers who have an income and consider it a hobby. So no, I didn't mean actual maturity level - PC gamers make up much of the 'l33t' speak, lolcat, "all your base are belong to us" etc crowds - definitely not "mature" by any means

And when I meant kids, I mean kids old enough to play most console games. Regarding your link, yes PC's still capture the young kid market with a lot of well priced suitable learning games and online game websites using flash etc that don't cost anything. There's no doubting though the "old enough to get COD4 for Christmas" market is dominated by consoles over PC, for reasons I list above.
 
# 16 mva5580 @ 04/03/08 10:09 AM
I've gotten so tired of arguing PC vs. Console (and I have both,) but what the hell. It all comes down to one word:

Effort.

We're in such a now-now-now society, that the great, great majority of people out there now are just too lazy to be PC gamers. They don't want to read software requirements, install, configure, make adjustments to configurations, download patches, download and install mods, upgrade their machines, etc. They want to put in the game and play. And that's it. I show my Console-Only friends what I can do with games on the PC, and they're amazed. Flat amazed. But will they go out and buy a gaming PC? Nope, because they just aren't willing to go through those things that are previously mentioned. But, they'll buy Madden 09 every year on the 360 because it's easy.

I don't know how anyone can LOGICALLY compare Consoles and PC's and think that Consoles are the superior platform. And don't even talk to me about price because price is NOT a factor when you're talking about what is "better" between different things. Look at what has been done to MVP Baseball. The Grand Theft Auto series. The Sims. And it goes on and on. These games are superior on the PC, PERIOD. Because of what you are capable of doing outside of what the developers have given you.

Hell, take Madden for example. What did everyone complain about last year? The fumbles, INT's, "rocket-pack" LB's, and a few other things. You think that stuff can't be fixed on the PC version by the community? Because it can be. With the editor's that are made, and everything else, PC gamers sometimes will take the crap that is given to them and turn it into a quality experience. Where as console gamers are more or less stuck with what they've got, barring any actual effort from the company to fix it themselves.

Look. I enjoy consoles, and I play them often. But as a 27 year old who truly understands what the PC is capable of and has been able to do for so long, it disappoints me that A ) These long time companies have forgotten their true roots and are abandoning the original gaming platform, and B ) Consumers have chosen what's easy rather than what's right. I'll play consoles and have an ok time with it, but PC Gaming for me, will always be the superior platform. Too bad it's just not utilized.
 
# 17 calfcramp!!! @ 04/03/08 10:19 AM
QFT mva.Well put and I totally agree.


Craig
 
# 18 jmood88 @ 04/03/08 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mva5580
I've gotten so tired of arguing PC vs. Console (and I have both,) but what the hell. It all comes down to one word:

Effort.

We're in such a now-now-now society, that the great, great majority of people out there now are just too lazy to be PC gamers. They don't want to read software requirements, install, configure, make adjustments to configurations, download patches, download and install mods, upgrade their machines, etc. They want to put in the game and play. And that's it. I show my Console-Only friends what I can do with games on the PC, and they're amazed. Flat amazed. But will they go out and buy a gaming PC? Nope, because they just aren't willing to go through those things that are previously mentioned.

Look. I enjoy consoles, and I play them often. But as a 27 year old who truly understands what the PC is capable of and has been able to do for so long, it disappoints me that A ) These long time companies have forgotten their true roots and are abandoning the original gaming platform, and B ) Consumers have chosen what's easy rather than what's right. I'll play consoles and have an ok time with it, but PC Gaming for me, will always be the superior platform. Too bad it's just not utilized.
Gaming is supposed to be a leisure activity I don't understand how you can criticize people for not wanting to work before they have fun, especially with the ridiculous amount of time you need to put into doing all of that crap. I don't get the "what's right" comment either, there is nothing right or wrong about playing on a console vs. a PC. The PC isn't getting any really good games anyway, at least not the kind of games most console people like. Not everyone likes to play MMORPG's or RTS games.
 
# 19 Nza @ 04/03/08 10:56 AM
Yeah, pretty much sums up my feelings too - good post mva5580. I don't really know why PC gaming does it for me. I have a 360 but it feels empty. I'll get stuck in an online game of COD4 like anyone (actually prefer it than PC online, far too hectic on PC if that makes sense), but nothing but PC feels "right" to me. I guess I like being able to tweak anti-aliasing settings and run timedemo's to see how my system holds up. Sometimes I even like the challenges PC gaming can bring, like finding the right settings for my system - it's almost like a ritual.

It's just a shame no new Madden will be included in that. Nevermind, I'll continue to play 08 PC and continue to work on my editor and other stuff. I even thought maybe one day I could work towards writing an entire offseason utility that takes a franchise file and basically eliminates the need to do any offseason stage inside Madden at all - you could have a new CPU roster management AI engine, a new progression engine which could lead to adding attributes like 'potential', etc etc. Whilst that idea is a little ambitious itself (not even sure I could come close to doing it), you get the idea - Madden and PC will live on.
 
# 20 playball335 @ 04/03/08 11:00 AM
Nza,

I feel your sentiments very closely, couldn't have expressed it better myself. For myself I feel betrayed. Although it is "a business decision". I have been a Madden pc supporter since day one. Like many pc Madden gamers, I have spent countless hours (in the past in my case) customizing the pc game, this is/was my draw to pc games - customization.

I was actually planning on re-opening Custom Madden Depot (custom madden artwork). But a big part of me feels betrayed and now I just feel like...screw you EA!

Sorry had to vent!


Travis
 

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