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majesty95 · 08-13-2012, 03:50 AM

I just played "plasticweapon" on PSN. Worst cheese fest I've been a part of. Here is what I experienced:

A. Pinched line and his RE got insta pressure every play
- Finally countered it with bubble screens and quick passes over the middle from SG 5 WR.

B. Resorted to some Big Ace set with one WR. Would put WR in motion and if I was in man he knew where to run (not sure what his key was). I quickly went to zone but it was a toss play that was picking up large chunks over and over.
- Didn't really figure out a counter to this.

C. Squib kicked so that over half the time his guys would beat mine to the ball (apparently its a particular spot he's kicking to)
- Didn't figure out a counter to this either and he recovered three of them.

With all of this being said, I was up 8 with about 1:00 to play. Then he used his power run to get a TD with 14 sec left and I screwed up with an engage eight blitz thinking he would run and he passed (one of the few things I can credit him for).

He tied it up and then squib/recovered the kickoff. I went into stall mode. Kept calling TO's and pausing the game. Finally, I decided to offer a friendly quit which he surprisingly accepted.

Later he says that he offered a friendly (which he did after I figured out the counter to the pinch line thing) and was up 8 or 9. I get a lot of cheesers that wanna friendly quit when you shut down their cheddar so they don't take a loss, so I declined. That's when it went to full blown queso.

So, the reason for the post is to A. alert people to this knucklehead and B. find out if there are counters to any of this stuff (the outside run and squib specifically)...

Manny_B214 · 08-13-2012, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majesty95


	That's when it went to full blown queso. .

great post butthat one line is hilarious

PowerofRed25 · 08-13-2012, 05:56 AM

Well the counter to the squib is usually just keep your hands off your controller. Don't try to manually recover it and don't chase after it. Just let your guy pick it up. Sometimes he'll just dive on it and you'll be stuck deep in your own territory, but it is better than the alternative. People try this all the time against me but after I recover it and return it to the 35 a few times, it stops.

I face pinched lines all the time because I'm almost always running option (under center or spread) and that makes the read cloudy, but I've never seen the DE get instant pressure from it. Pinching the line usually negates pressure. Don't be afraid to slide protect and keep a back or two in to block. Slide protect the direction most of the pressure is coming from and hot route the back to protect the other way. I stop most nano blitzing with LB's by going Pistol and hot routing my back to block. He steps up in front of me and usually takes on the LB up the middle.

If you're facing instant pressure, find WR/FL Screen in your playbook. The one where the outside WR stands and waits for a screen while the slot WR/TE/G/T run out to block for him (not a Mid Screen). Call that play, it is in most formations. When you get to the line of scrimmage, hot route the intended WR to run a slant and then hot route the running back to run a swing pattern (right or left on the right stick). What that will create is effectively a HB Swing/Bubble Screen with receivers and offensive linemen out front. Snap the ball, take a step or two back and then fire it at the back and follow the blockers. After you've run it a few times, he'll probably try and cheat over there manually, that's when you snap throw the slant when he's abandoned the middle.

Additionally, learn your quick routes. Hot route your WR's to run a curl and don't be afraid to throw it before he is looking, if you wait for him to turn you're going to be sacked. Right as he gets to his spot, fire it at him, he'll turn and catch it. Make sure your initial step after catch is lateral, left or right, one way or the other. Most people that play like this will try and big hit your receiver on the curl to separate him from the ball. If you take a quick side step, you could bust it open.

Don't be afraid to call a 5 yard hitch route all the way down the field, it'll probably be open, you can get it off lightning fast and you'll keep moving the chains. If he's a HEAVY blitzer, run HB Slip Screen ALL DAY until he proves he can stop it. Drift back with your QB a few steps, wait for the back to clear and loft it over there.

Defensively, if he ran to the exact same place over and over if you went man, mix in a run commit to that direction to see if you can't get him on edge. If you cause a negative play on first down, most of these guys panic a little and feel the need to get away from what they're doing. If you're getting beat by tosses, hot route your defensive line to have the ends contain (I believe it is L1 and up, but someone can correct me on that, it is muscle memory for me). The ends will fire out and usually either stop the toss cold or force him to cut back where the rest of your team will get him. Bring corner blitzes. The 425 and 335 defenses are perfect for this because you can bring the strong safeties on smoke blitzes from either end and usually get pretty good contain on outside runs. Make him beat you through the air, he's likely to make a mistake. You can mix in the double SS blitz in both man and zone to keep him guessing.

In my experience, cheesers have very little patience. They may start out in the run game but at the slightest hint of trouble they are going 4 and 5 wide and playing chuck n duck. If you play bend but don't break defense, they are more likely to panic and make a mistake. If you slow the tempo down offensively and put points on the board, they are more likely to panic and feel the need to score in a hurry, hurrying leads to mistakes. The fascination cheesers have with no huddle amazes me because 9 out of 10 of them are not prepared with audibles and play calls so they are basically telling you what they are doing and thus are going to make a mistake. Additionally, guys get tired, passes fly off target, running backs fumble and receivers drop passes.

Don't be afraid to shorten the game. Run the football, use conservative clock to burn time, just control the game. He can't score while you have the football. Limit your mistakes offensively and you'll force him to take risks to keep up. Most of my wins against these types of cheesers are 24-21, 17-10 type games where I had 14 minutes of time of possession but put points up at the end of every drive. They feel the need to speed up the pace, counter that score with a quick score of their own and all of a sudden they are throwing INT's and it snowballs on them. Very few cheesers have the attention span to stick with their "gameplan." All of a sudden they'll just start running the same few money plays they know and from there you just make your defensive adjustments and take them down.

There have been very few times I've been stumped by a cheeser, most are the same as every other. Occasionally you'll run into a guy who has obviously practiced his cheesemaking craft over many years of NCAA football and those guys are tough, but not impossible, to beat. As always, the most difficult opponents of online play are those that stray from the norm. I suppose the same could be said for actual football as well.

SA1NT401 · 08-13-2012, 06:41 AM

How is this surprising. Online is just....
Pathetic

majesty95 · 08-13-2012, 04:23 PM

Thanks for your detailed post power.

The nano blitzing I countered with screens and quick passes so I got him out of it. I want as concerned with that. Although I even went ace big from shotgun and kept both of my TEs in to block and he still got through.

It seemed to be a timing thing. I caught him jumping the snap a couple do times so a ahead count and quick passes negated it for the most part.

I'll try not touching anything on the squibs and see what happens. It was weird because he was kicking to the right and it was falling ini no-mans land. maybe my guys would've recovered but it certainly seemed like his guys were gonna beat me to it every time.

For some reason I didn't think to corner blitz. I guess it's because I run 3-3-5 and was in split because he had 3TE. I think he was good enough to pins me up the middle had I went stack and blitzed the corners so that's what made it even more difficult...

stratospaly · 08-13-2012, 04:48 PM

3-3-5 is not great vs. the run. Throw 5 D linemen at him and he will stop running it.

Joobieo · 08-13-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA1NT401


	How is this surprising. Online is just.... Pathetic

Win at all cost. Is how some people act.

majesty95 · 08-13-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratospaly


	3-3-5 is not great vs. the run. Throw 5 D linemen at him and he will stop running it.

Well you don't know what your facing until you get into the game. For the most part it serves me well. Just not when someone decides they want to cheese ball you. Guess I have to create a custom defensive playbook. Sigh

PowerofRed25 · 08-13-2012, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majesty95


	Thanks for your detailed post power. The nano blitzing I countered with screens and quick passes so I got him out of it. I want as concerned with that. Although I even went ace big from shotgun and kept both of my TEs in to block and he still got through. It seemed to be a timing thing. I caught him jumping the snap a couple do times so a ahead count and quick passes negated it for the most part. I'll try not touching anything on the squibs and see what happens. It was weird because he was kicking to the right and it was falling ini no-mans land. maybe my guys would've recovered but it certainly seemed like his guys were gonna beat me to it every time. For some reason I didn't think to corner blitz. I guess it's because I run 3-3-5 and was in split because he had 3TE. I think he was good enough to pins me up the middle had I went stack and blitzed the corners so that's what made it even more difficult...

You'd think keeping TE's to block would help but the problem is usually that a LB or DE occupies an OL and someone runs right through the gap. That's why I prefer having my backs stay in and block, think of them as the personal protector/upback on the punt team.

I said this in another thread about online cheesers but mix up your snap count. Don't be afraid to get to the line of scrimmage and just freeze him. Stand there and wait him out, see if he gets antsy and jumps offsides or tries shaking his LB's back and forth. I had a guy with his defensive line setting to aggressive, a few fake snaps caught him offsides 2 or 3 times and he gave up on that.

You just have to be patient. Cheesers succeed most when they force you to be the one who panics, that plays right into their hands. Just keep with your game plan, control the football and see who makes the mistake first.

DiegoQuin · 08-13-2012, 08:13 PM

He steps up in front of me and usually takes on the LB up the middle.

08-13-2012, 05:56 AM	#3
PowerofRed25 MVP OVR: 13 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	Re: plasticweapon - cheese fest Well the counter to the squib is usually just keep your hands off your controller. Don't try to manually recover it and don't chase after it. Just let your guy pick it up. Sometimes he'll just dive on it and you'll be stuck deep in your own territory, but it is better than the alternative. People try this all the time against me but after I recover it and return it to the 35 a few times, it stops. I face pinched lines all the time because I'm almost always running option (under center or spread) and that makes the read cloudy, but I've never seen the DE get instant pressure from it. Pinching the line usually negates pressure. Don't be afraid to slide protect and keep a back or two in to block. Slide protect the direction most of the pressure is coming from and hot route the back to protect the other way. I stop most nano blitzing with LB's by going Pistol and hot routing my back to block. He steps up in front of me and usually takes on the LB up the middle. If you're facing instant pressure, find WR/FL Screen in your playbook. The one where the outside WR stands and waits for a screen while the slot WR/TE/G/T run out to block for him (not a Mid Screen). Call that play, it is in most formations. When you get to the line of scrimmage, hot route the intended WR to run a slant and then hot route the running back to run a swing pattern (right or left on the right stick). What that will create is effectively a HB Swing/Bubble Screen with receivers and offensive linemen out front. Snap the ball, take a step or two back and then fire it at the back and follow the blockers. After you've run it a few times, he'll probably try and cheat over there manually, that's when you snap throw the slant when he's abandoned the middle. Additionally, learn your quick routes. Hot route your WR's to run a curl and don't be afraid to throw it before he is looking, if you wait for him to turn you're going to be sacked. Right as he gets to his spot, fire it at him, he'll turn and catch it. Make sure your initial step after catch is lateral, left or right, one way or the other. Most people that play like this will try and big hit your receiver on the curl to separate him from the ball. If you take a quick side step, you could bust it open. Don't be afraid to call a 5 yard hitch route all the way down the field, it'll probably be open, you can get it off lightning fast and you'll keep moving the chains. If he's a HEAVY blitzer, run HB Slip Screen ALL DAY until he proves he can stop it. Drift back with your QB a few steps, wait for the back to clear and loft it over there. Defensively, if he ran to the exact same place over and over if you went man, mix in a run commit to that direction to see if you can't get him on edge. If you cause a negative play on first down, most of these guys panic a little and feel the need to get away from what they're doing. If you're getting beat by tosses, hot route your defensive line to have the ends contain (I believe it is L1 and up, but someone can correct me on that, it is muscle memory for me). The ends will fire out and usually either stop the toss cold or force him to cut back where the rest of your team will get him. Bring corner blitzes. The 425 and 335 defenses are perfect for this because you can bring the strong safeties on smoke blitzes from either end and usually get pretty good contain on outside runs. Make him beat you through the air, he's likely to make a mistake. You can mix in the double SS blitz in both man and zone to keep him guessing. In my experience, cheesers have very little patience. They may start out in the run game but at the slightest hint of trouble they are going 4 and 5 wide and playing chuck n duck. If you play bend but don't break defense, they are more likely to panic and make a mistake. If you slow the tempo down offensively and put points on the board, they are more likely to panic and feel the need to score in a hurry, hurrying leads to mistakes. The fascination cheesers have with no huddle amazes me because 9 out of 10 of them are not prepared with audibles and play calls so they are basically telling you what they are doing and thus are going to make a mistake. Additionally, guys get tired, passes fly off target, running backs fumble and receivers drop passes. Don't be afraid to shorten the game. Run the football, use conservative clock to burn time, just control the game. He can't score while you have the football. Limit your mistakes offensively and you'll force him to take risks to keep up. Most of my wins against these types of cheesers are 24-21, 17-10 type games where I had 14 minutes of time of possession but put points up at the end of every drive. They feel the need to speed up the pace, counter that score with a quick score of their own and all of a sudden they are throwing INT's and it snowballs on them. Very few cheesers have the attention span to stick with their "gameplan." All of a sudden they'll just start running the same few money plays they know and from there you just make your defensive adjustments and take them down. There have been very few times I've been stumped by a cheeser, most are the same as every other. Occasionally you'll run into a guy who has obviously practiced his cheesemaking craft over many years of NCAA football and those guys are tough, but not impossible, to beat. As always, the most difficult opponents of online play are those that stray from the norm. I suppose the same could be said for actual football as well. ComebackDylan, TheDirt, Joobieo and 5 others like this.

08-13-2012, 06:41 AM	#4
SA1NT401 MVP OVR: 25 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Ocean State	How is this surprising. Online is just.... Pathetic Joobieo likes this. __________________ ------------------------------------------------ "You guys, line up alphabetically by height." - Bill Peterson, Florida State football coach *GT: Dead SA1NT / PSN: SA1NT_401* ------------------------------------------------

08-13-2012, 04:23 PM	#5
majesty95 Rookie OVR: 17 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Worth, TX Blog Entries: 13	Thanks for your detailed post power. The nano blitzing I countered with screens and quick passes so I got him out of it. I want as concerned with that. Although I even went ace big from shotgun and kept both of my TEs in to block and he still got through. It seemed to be a timing thing. I caught him jumping the snap a couple do times so a ahead count and quick passes negated it for the most part. I'll try not touching anything on the squibs and see what happens. It was weird because he was kicking to the right and it was falling ini no-mans land. maybe my guys would've recovered but it certainly seemed like his guys were gonna beat me to it every time. For some reason I didn't think to corner blitz. I guess it's because I run 3-3-5 and was in split because he had 3TE. I think he was good enough to pins me up the middle had I went stack and blitzed the corners so that's what made it even more difficult... __________________ Contact: Majesty Sports @realmajesty95 Team Builder: 1997 North Carolina Tar Heels

08-13-2012, 04:48 PM	#6
stratospaly Rookie OVR: 1 Join Date: Apr 2010	Re: plasticweapon - cheese fest 3-3-5 is not great vs. the run. Throw 5 D linemen at him and he will stop running it.

08-13-2012, 08:13 PM	#10
DiegoQuin Rookie OVR: 0 Join Date: Aug 2012	Re: plasticweapon - cheese fest He steps up in front of me and usually takes on the LB up the middle. __________________

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