QB Vision

[kayGET]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ninjas N Grits

I like when game company's try to be inventive. It doesn't always work, but it shows gamers that they are trying. The vision cone was a new (note: not a rehashed) idea to Madden. And while it wasn't my favorite, and most people hated it, it presented a good representation of what a QB can see. Some QBs, manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, can see the field better than others. But its hard to replicate that on a video game. So how about instead of a cone to control, you have to select a receiver using the icon, and then either hit it again for your throw type, or hold it down? ****Everybody knows Jackie Robinson was #42****

I had the same tought, but in my opinion, first you should hit the receiver icon, then use the right stick to throw the ball. (a bit like BackBreaker)

Otherwise it Would be only a double hit on the same icon !!

[TTD71]

The number one problem with Madden is the camera view. Playing the game this way dictates the very style and tactics that annoy so many people. The "god" cam allows the user to see things that only an OC could see.

I would zoom the camera in to something 1/2 way between the current camera and Backbreaker's camera system. The QB should be able to see about 1/2 the field at any time. In the huddle, when calling the play, the user should use L2 to have the default view cover the left or R2 to have the default view cover the right. Allowing the user to switch back and forth seamlessly by using L2 and R2 during a play would also be necessary.

This would be met with howls of protest by a ton of people, and it will NEVER happen, but limiting the QB's ACTUAL vision is the only way to really help bring realism to the game. In real life, if the QB had the vision of the OC, defenses would have no chance.

Make a game mechanic and camera change together - freshen up the game already because I have been playing from roughly the same "god" camera since Madden '91 (the video retrospective shows this pretty clearly - despite moving from sprites to polys to fully 3D models, the gameplay itself is HUGELY unchanged...its like we are continually playing a prettier and prettier side-scrolling adventure game instead of ever getting into real 3D space).

The "zoomed" camera option in '12 was a potentially good start (but you have to make it movable to see the sidelines)...and thats about as far as I think it will ever go...

[Ninjas N Grits]

I like the L/R trigger option too. I just was thinking that in real life a QB has to look at his receiver, before he throws it. In my head I see selecting a button, the icon flashes to alert the D, and then you throw it. I also really like the idea of using the trigger to throw different types of passes.

You could still look off the safety by "looking" at one WR, then quickly selecting and throwing to another.

In truth, all I really want is innovation towards a sim football experience. Instead of taking away strafe on offense, take away rocket catches. Add momentum and make weight matter. Do something to make this game great, not just a $60 roster update.

****Everybody knows Jackie Robinson was #42****

[BathSaints]

Short of giving us the QBs actual view I don't see how you can improve it. Certainly I don't have the co-ordination to look at all points of the screen at once. HOWEVER that doesn't matter because I know what everyone is doing and what button to press already.

I would prefer they didn't tell us the button beforehand. That way I have to focus on the player, see what their key is, and if it doesn't work I can just press X subliminally - I actually have to look what their key is. I hope the new NCAA system is something like this but I guess time will tell...

[wheelman990]

Quote: Originally Posted by TTD71

The number one problem with Madden is the camera view. Playing the game this way dictates the very style and tactics that annoy so many people. The "god" cam allows the user to see things that only an OC could see. I would zoom the camera in to something 1/2 way between the current camera and Backbreaker's camera system. The QB should be able to see about 1/2 the field at any time. In the huddle, when calling the play, the user should use L2 to have the default view cover the left or R2 to have the default view cover the right. Allowing the user to switch back and forth seamlessly by using L2 and R2 during a play would also be necessary. This would be met with howls of protest by a ton of people, and it will NEVER happen, but limiting the QB's ACTUAL vision is the only way to really help bring realism to the game. In real life, if the QB had the vision of the OC, defenses would have no chance. Make a game mechanic and camera change together - freshen up the game already because I have been playing from roughly the same "god" camera since Madden '91 (the video retrospective shows this pretty clearly - despite moving from sprites to polys to fully 3D models, the gameplay itself is HUGELY unchanged...its like we are continually playing a prettier and prettier side-scrolling adventure game instead of ever getting into real 3D space). The "zoomed" camera option in '12 was a potentially good start (but you have to make it movable to see the sidelines)...and thats about as far as I think it will ever go...

I mentioned the same thing here a few times over the years. A camera slightly closer then the current zoom cam, with a tilt left and right feature for the sideline/ screen route passes. The only thing I could come up with control wise that would feel nice is to have it where if you tap the right thumb stick to the left cam clicks one move to the left(3 cam positions), click right stick to the right moves cam one move to the right. Having to hold down the right stick would be too frustrating and the cam would not be steady.

This camera tilt speed could be linked with QB awareness. QB's with a slow awareness have a slightly slower tilting cam to make those sideline reads,etc.

If the majority don't like the slower cam to mark awareness, I wondered how it would be to make receiver icons not always show based on QB awareness. In other words a 50 QB awareness might miss 5 wr icons per every 10 pass plays, and a 75 QB rating might miss 2-3. A 90+ rating only misses 1 or none per 10 plays.- Now they introduced where the icons dont show if the receiver isn't looking, but the bad thing is that doesn't matter QB awareness, and likely not a receivers either(have to wait and see on that).

The only thing with the cam tilt is it wouldn't really work pvp because the user controlled defensive player might be on the right side on the field during a left camera tilt. Unless they just make it where the defensive user is just out of luck and gets a cursor. That could actually be interesting,lol. Talk about a defender out of position if you move the cemra back to the right quickly,lol.

It's easy to come up with idea's, but another to get them to work. I would love to see this as a option just to see what it is like. 2k5 showed us that first player football wouldn't be a easy thing to do at all, and I didn't like that perspective much at all. I didn't like the way the Madden vision cone was done. The flashlight effect really killed the look and feel of football visually.

[SA1NT401]

ANYTHING to make elite QBs stand out from average I'm all in favor for. I personally can throw for over 4500 yards per year with just about anyone aside from some very very low rated scrubs. The last full season I played I led the league in YDS. TDS AND QBrating with colt McCoy on a tough set of sliders.... He was rated an 79 at the time.


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[da ThRONe]

I've always been a fan of the double tap system. The awareness rating would represent how quickly the QB locates his targets. Like many wasn't a fan of the vision cone.

What seperate smart QB's from lesses QB's is there ability to read and react to the defense. Every QB in the pro's know the playbook and all the routes. That's why I have no problem with the ability to see the whole field. Smart QB read the defense to determine who will be open after the snap and if they guess wrong pre-snap they are able to adjust quickly and find another open WR. Bad Qb struggle to read, but even more so struggle to adjust when their first read isn't open.

[Big FN Deal]

I am a huge advocate for a more realistically limited game play view and some version of QB vision returning but I don't think it's necessary to achieve a more realistically challenging passing game in Madden. Someone made the point a while back, that even though gamers can see the entire field, they still can only focus on so much, which is a good point.

Considering that, even without adding back QB vision or adjusting the passing view, Madden needs to improve player movement, improve the defensive pass rush/pressure and include an actual process for securing a catch. These things would help make passing inherently more difficult and realistic.

Another problem in Madden is things don't compliment each other to make them good, they are either good or their not. For example, in the real NFL place Payton Manning on the 2011 St Louis Rams and they still wouldn't have a great passing game due to a terrible offensive line and an average receiving corp. However, in Madden, even with QB vision added back, an outstanding QB is effective, regardless of the teams Oline and I am not even sure how much the receiver corp matters either as long as they have SPD and average CTH.

Passing should be challenging in general and that challenge should be made greater by things like the supporting offensive/defensive personnel on the field, the weather, down and distance and crowd noise. Even with Rex Grossman at QB, I very seldom get nervous about dropping back to pass, regardless of the team I am facing and that's a core problem with the lack of a realistic challenge to the passing game, imo.

[Facts]

Quote: Originally Posted by berad88

The vision cone was a good concept but I never liked the way it worked. You see a receiver open with your own eyes. Then you have to push stuff on your controller to make the qb see him. Then you have to throw the ball. All just took longer than it should take.

For the most part, he's only open with your own eyes because you don't have a defender reading your eyes.

[bichettehappens]

Quote: Originally Posted by lordnate

I guess I didn't really answer your question. Yes, I think that would be good improvement. Just have two button presses. What I'd prefer however, is to use the face buttons to select the WRs and use the RT to throw the pass. Then you vary the touch based on how hard you pull the trigger. By doing that, you could put lead passing on the R-Stick so that it doesn't interfere with your scrambling. Of course this would make it so that you couldn't sprint with the QB. I think clicking in on the R-Stick or maybe the L-Stick should switch from passing and running mode. I know this would be slightly cumbersome, but I believe it would be great to reduce people wanting to sprint out of the pocket all the time. Madden 13 is reworking pass leading. I hope they are doing it so that, you lead based on how long you hold the stick in a direction. You should be able to over lead so that there is a skill aspect involved. Better WRs should be better at adjusting on off target passes so that they give you more freedom to throw them open.

I would be a fan of something like this