Summer Storms: The NCAA Release Story

[ChaseB]

OK, I'm back and these are well written responses so obviously I'll comment. PS Pixel Junk Eden is good stuff, DL it if you're into new experiences.

Quote: Originally Posted by bears5122

ChaseB, I think people aren't necessarily upset with the parts of the article, but a perceived bias that OS may be showing toward EA. OS was one of the only sports gaming sites that was completely neutral in their stance on games. If a game was good, it got praise. If it was bad, it got torn apart. It's why OS grew so much and why the community has so many dedicated people attached to it. While there was some EA/2K banter, it never dominated how a game was seen by the members. College Hoops 2K and NFL 2K5 have been praised here. So have recent additions of NHL and FIFA by EA. Basically, if you make a good game the community will support it. We just want the best sports gaming experience. Which is why things have been questionable of late. First, the incredibly high score for NCAA. While I can understand a review missing from time to time, it was a bit odd that NCAA was rated much higher than a game like College Hoops 2K (that is hailed by many members here as a phenomenal game). Also that it was pretty close to the rating that The Show got (which is a vastly superior game). Now I know each reviewer has their own tastes, but I can't fathom how a game that has some of its biggest features completely broken (rosters, sliders, online dynasty) receiving such a high score. It also doesn't help that the OS review is prominently featured on the homepage at EASports.com. The part that bugs me about the article though is the perception that this is just the norm. That negative people always come in and make a big fuss. This isn't just a negative person thing, it's not even an OS thing. EA football sales have been tanking. Madden saw a double digit percent loss of sales last year (think about that, they own the exclusive rights and more consoles were in homes). NCAA presales were reported to be way down. That's a pretty good sign that it's not just a vocal few on the forums that are upset with the recent products. It also mentions how the negatives went away after the release. I don't think that's necessarily a good judge of what has happened. Most of the negative impression threads were closed while the positive ones were left open. I understand the need to delete duplicate topics, but that is a reason why the perception has changed a bit when taking a glance in. I guess what I'm saying is that I really hope that the recent reviews and articles are just bad timing. From my perception it could appear that OS is acting as part of the EA markerting team. EA has a history of becoming aggressive with sports gaming forums for positive exposure. I understand OS likes the exclusives as well as having EA interact on the forums, but I would hope that wouldn't come at the expense of neutrality. The reason people come to OS is because of that neutrality, not the marketing hype. Let's just hope all this is being perceived by the community the wrong way and that OS is running as it has over the years.

OK so the first thing is what EA does as its site, we don't control obviously.

As for the part about being neutral and fair, obviously we still strive for that at every turn. As the content and the site has evolved over the past few months there's been some growing pains, and this is one right here. We're definitely still learning how to handle the extra content and relationships as we continue to grow and become more involved in terms of covering various games and pursuing more content. Seldom are things perfect and that's never truer. Perhaps in the future we'll start to put op-ed in somewhere so people know what they're getting in for.

I definitely see this more as the tipping point like you said as well. This is the first time I've noticed the unrest because of what I was doing previously, but I'm aware now and I think we'll straighten this stuff out moving forward. If we talk about you guys in a general sense within an article we'll try to make sure it doesn't misrepresent you all. So I think while people are reading way too far into the article still, it's still a valid complaint in the overall sense. Also the moderation thing is not something I deal with, but I assume the mods are noticing all this as well and can only assume they might pow-wow and decide if they're handling this correctly or not -- I'm not going to say if they are or aren't doing this the right way because it's not my job to do that, that's their job.

I don't like to compare reviews because it's apples and oranges to me. Like I said before it's not the job of a reviewer to make sure the masses are happy: he has an opinion and he'll try to back it up etc. I didn't really like College Hoops 2K8 (so I guess I don't represent the general consensus on OS) all that much, but I loved NBA 2K8 -- the point is it's still opinions and I hate to say one opinion is wrong but another is right.

The article itself is an opinion piece once again, but he even says in the article that the outrage was even greater than usual. Patrick states he's been through many releases, and once again I think it's important to mention that he factors MM into his thoughts because it's the same network after all.

Sales and all that I won't get into because it doesn't have much to do with what we're doing here, plus you're not really analyzing them to a deep extent (for example your 48% number wasn't a final total and only accounts for PS2 sales). I know Madden had huge sales figures for the 2007 version. Then for the 2008 version Riccitiello came out and said the game shouldn't have launched at $50 on last gen, which hurt overall sales. But again I don't have the exact final overall numbers since I'm not looking at NPD numbers (and VGChartz doesn't count for obvious reasons).

But bottom line is there's nothing fishy going on between us and EA -- this just seems to be bad timing and us not realizing there was an issue quickly enough. And I know some like to say, "well you're partially owned by someone who works for EA!" While I'm not going to throw anyone's business completely out there -- Matt (bronco92) can talk about it when he wants to -- I know I can say that Matt doesn't work for EA anymore and therefore we have no direct ties at all, though even when he was working for them we didn't have ties either. Matt can talk about his business when he wants to though, so that's all I'll say on that subject.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

Like I mentioned earlier, it seems the straw has broken the camel's back. If this were the sole article we've seen from OS recently regarding NCAA, perhaps it wouldn't be met with such negativity. But add the review released earlier, coupled with: NCAA Designers Step Up to the Plate Despite Flaws, NCAA 09 a Great Experience You start to see a trend that whomever is pushing these articles are side-stepping the issues the forum is currently dealing with. It's almost as if, between the articles and the dev's silence on the issues (and their insistence "many are enjoying the game now"), OS' content is causing one to wonder if they are being written "in a bubble" and not aware of the general feeling throughout the forum and community. Well, at least from those posting about the game. And to give the insinuation that those that have these issues can't be satisfied is completely out of left field.

And I think the people who write football content realize this now and will be more focused on how they handle things. If they genuinely like the game though I can't make them hate it, you know. If in their op-ed pieces they talk about why they like the game despite flaws, that's their doing -- but maybe it just needs to be more spaced out etc. in terms of the flow of content.

I don't think this article tried to say people just can't be satisfied with '09 though, so I don't think the insinuation point has much merit.

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by kiddlex

The tone around here has changed dramatically since developers started frequenting the boards. I notice hair trigger reactions from mods that didn't used to exist such as threads being locked the second the tone changes to negativity. This wasn't the case in previous years and I would even go so far to say certain mods like country boy have completely changed their attitudes with the new direction OS' is going. I remember him in the mlb the show forums being a guy who was extremely objective and articulate while being good at questioning broken features in that game. Now as a moderator he is very quick to lock threads that discuss deficiencies in NCAA 09. I don't like seeing developers who are relatively new to the boards demanding threads be locked when the conversation turns sour. All of that being said there is no doubt having developers on-site is a testament to the spirit of Operation Sports. Many of us at times find their insight invaluable, however, if we have to castrate our opinions as a side effect of their presence I say good riddance. Remember my gaming friends, Operation Sports is dedicated to sports gaming, not sports developers, and forums are by their very definition places for the masses to voice objective opinions for better or worse.

Like I asked a poster earlier: Do you know the right people to talk to? I would think developers/producers/whoever can handle negatives since that's part of the job. If it's articulate etc. then there shouldn't be a problem. Once again though this is for the mods to discuss, so if you want to talk with them or anything like that then I assume you know how to go about doing that.

Quote: Originally Posted by kgx2thez

How come the guy who wrote the article isn't defending or clarifying his points? Did I miss that part?

Because it's my fault since I edited the article, not his.

[Marino]

Quote: Originally Posted by AuburnAlumni

Honestly Chase, the negatives outweigh the positives RIGHT NOW . I say "right now" because the ball is in EA's court to change that. Every major feature is broken right now. That's undeniable. There are issues on defense as well. That's undeniable. Dynasty Schedules are broken. They go in reverse. That's undeniable. Dynasty Stats are severely messed up. That's undeniable. On a positive note...I love the running game. I love the smooth control online. I love the Stadium Sounds (even though they are causing issues for people pre patch) because it allows me to create the ultimate stadium atmosphere. But the scoreboard in the game of Postive vs Negative is Negative in a blowout right now. Again I stress....RIGHT NOW. We'll see if that changes by September.

Although im having fun with this game the problems are starting to take its toll on me... i really hope the changes supposedly coming i September will have an effect and give us the game we should have recieved in July.

[DIESEL]

Quote: Originally Posted by callmetaternuts

It may be just my humble opinion, but with all due respect, these EA/NCAA articles have got to stop. We get one about every day and its like we're being force fed this stuff.

There definitely has been a change here at OS in the past few months. In an attempt to add more content there have been a lot of "articles" published that have been questionable to say the least.

A lot of these "articles" have shown no more research or objectivity than any random post in the impressions threads. There was a MLB 2K8 article called "Can I Have My Money Back?" Now I'll be the first to admit MLB 2K8 was a buggy mess, but the story was basically one guy bitching about what he didn't like in the game. There was nothing wrong with his opinion, but it was just a weird story to have on the front page of a respected gaming site.

Now on the other side we have yet to see anything negative about NCAA 09 when there are some obvious issues with the game.

I think if OS wants to have an opinions section and post these kind of articles that's fine. But for those of us that have been coming to this site for a long time we expect more thoughtful and factual pieces than what has been given to us lately.

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChaseB

I don't think this article tried to say people just can't be satisfied with '09 though, so I don't think the insinuation point has much merit.

I don't agree, Chase.

Quote:

Perhaps just another college learned lesson was rearing its head: the fact that people who dislike something are more vocal than people who actually care about it. Because if you were on the boards during all the impressions, or should I say complaints, then it became a little trying. Several die hards proclaimed the game was busted and that they wouldn’t be purchasing this year -- mind you this was still before the game was even officially released... It shouldn’t come as a surprise though, reactions like these tend to happen when you mostly focus on the negatives....

The writer, to me, made it seem like people only decided to focus on the negatives because they can't be pleased. People bought the game to be pleased... to tell someone something in the vain of "of course things are going to be negative if you don't focus on the positives" is just a bit dull.

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

I don't agree, Chase. The writer, to me, made it seem like people only decided to focus on the negatives because they can't be pleased. People bought the game to be pleased... to tell someone something in the vain of "of course things are going to be negative if you don't focus on the positives" is just a bit dull.

Fair enough, I'm not going to try to beat you over the head with it.

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by DIESEL

There definitely has been a change here at OS in the past few months. In an attempt to add more content there have been a lot of "articles" published that have been questionable to say the least.

It's the blog generation.

[867-5309]

OS should write future articles completely in third person narrative, as to allow it's users to grasp the concept of "one persons persons opinion does not always equate to the opinion of it's staff and ownership." It is much more fun than having to throw out a boring disclaimer in front of every article.

867-5309 would like to see this very much.

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by DIESEL

There definitely has been a change here at OS in the past few months. In an attempt to add more content there have been a lot of "articles" published that have been questionable to say the least. A lot of these "articles" have shown no more research or objectivity than any random post in the impressions threads. There was a MLB 2K8 article called "Can I Have My Money Back?" Now I'll be the first to admit MLB 2K8 was a buggy mess, but the story was basically one guy bitching about what he didn't like in the game. There was nothing wrong with his opinion, but it was just a weird story to have on the front page of a respected gaming site. Now on the other side we have yet to see anything negative about NCAA 09 when there are some obvious issues with the game. I think if OS wants to have an opinions section and post these kind of articles that's fine. But for those of us that have been coming to this site for a long time we expect more thoughtful and factual pieces than what has been given to us lately.

Yea I think this is a perfectly valid point in a sense -- especially earlier on when we first switched over -- and I think we'll continue to modify where certain things are posted etc. as we add more depth to the site. But if you realize that certain stories are opinion pieces, then in a way I don't see the issue.

[Rules]

Quote: Originally Posted by 867-5309

So you give a free pass to Tiger Woods 08? Was this the 360 or PS3 version? That game was as broken as NCAA09. Game stopping bug that required a patch, after shipped to retail. Half of the courses textures looked like I mistakenly purchased the PS2 version. Photo Gameface... that really worked well online for many. Poor online play, questionable controls, when you finish a PGA tournament the money earned was for the third round results (or something like that). Can't use the downloaded courses in tour Mode and on and on and on and on. ZOMG, You sir are on EA's payroll for liking the game. See how that works.

I have Tiger Woods 08 for the Xbox 360. I never played the game online and I could care less if my mugshot was on my golfer. Other issues you addressed are valid points. It still didn't take away the enjoyment and especially the difficulty of how hard it is to compete in tour mode. Unlike NCAA 09, the difficulty is what puts me off as the sliders don't work making it too easy even on Heisman. As for you taking it personal and then coming after me for my opinion.............. 1-800-inu-rface