Pet peeve (Signature styles) LONG POST

[ericjwm]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob_NYY

He likely doesn't want to respond because he'll just end up disappointing most of us once again next year. Chris (the animation Guru Chris) who use to be the shining star of this great series...... now unfortunately seems to be the weak link. I guess he's lost that pefectionist passion that he use to have back in 05. I say this because for the past couple iterations he's been tailing off with the signature animations.
Its inexcusable for the PS3 version to have so many of the old PS2 pitching motions, batter routines, batting stances & HR celebrations. Not to mention they've been trying to get signature swings & follow thru's in for 3 years now. Which is something that should definitely be attempted for 09, despite the complicated risks.

Chris, I apologize for that preceding assumption. But I'm just hoping you & the animation team will redeem yourselves next year. I realize that you're in no way obligated to answer to us. So if nothing else hopefully you'll prove me wrong next March.


Still, despite all the stale personalized player animations. The Show 08 is in numerous ways easily one of the greatest sports games ever.

[Bronk_Bonin]

This game is the greatest sports game I've ever played. With that said, it would be even better with fixed and more accurate signature styles. I still would like to know how you guys got Ryan Howard's style so wrong. This is my first year with The Show and I just thought the signature styles would be more up to par. Some of them are spot on and others....not so good. It's come to the point I'll only play exhibition game with pitchers that have true signature styles. Otherwise it feels to generic facing someone who's signature style is "off".

[brunnoce]

Quote: Originally Posted by ericjwm

He likely doesn't want to respond because he'll just end up disappointing most of us once again next year. Chris (the animation Guru Chris) who use to be the shining star of this great series...... now unfortunately seems to be the weak link. I guess he's lost that pefectionist passion that he use to have back in 05. I say this because for the past couple iterations he's been tailing off with the signature animations. Its inexcusable for the PS3 version to have so many of the old PS2 pitching motions, batter routines, batting stances & HR celebrations. Not to mention they've been trying to get signature swings & follow thru's in for 3 years now. Which is something that should definitely be attempted for 09, despite the complicated risks. Chris, I apologize for that preceding assumption. But I'm just hoping you & the animation team will redeem yourselves next year. I realize that you're in no way obligated to answer to us. So if nothing else hopefully you'll prove me wrong next March. Still, despite all the stale personalized player animations. The Show 08 is in numerous ways easily one of the greatest sports games ever.

eric, i have great respect for u and your posts here at OS, weve dissagree in a few things, but mostly im with u...
this time though, im not..
nothing personal man
but i dont think Chirs diserver any kind of bashing or any kind of complaints..those guys do alot more than they should for us, just by beeing here interacting with us.
thats only my humble opinion.

[NumberOneRB]

Two batting stances that always seem to stand out as inaccurate ot me every year are Paul Konerko and Bobby Abreu. Being a White Sox fan, I was hoping Konerko would have been fixed this year, but much to my chagrin it has not. Maybe next year though.

[ericjwm]

Quote: Originally Posted by brunnoce

eric, i have great respect for u and your posts here at OS, weve dissagree in a few things, but mostly im with u... this time though, im not.. nothing personal man but i dont think Chirs diserver any kind of bashing or any kind of complaints..those guys do alot more than they should for us, just by beeing here interacting with us. thats only my humble opinion.

Brunnoce, I agree that some of my statement might of been a bit harsh, which is why I apologized for that towards the end. I'm not really bashing, so much as I am expressing my displeasure in the animations over the last couple versions. I just haven't seen the significant quality jump that I was expecting from PS2 to PS3 so far. The Show 08 was the year of the huge graphics upgrade, so maybe 09 will be the year for the animation overhaul.

Chris is cool & I've been interacting with him on OS for many years. So I think he would get what I'm saying & understand why I'm reacting this way from past PM's we've had (unless he's avoiding this topic). I suppose certain stuff like batter follow thru's/swings might be out of his control, but most other things aren't. Just glad I finally have some backup on here so he'll see its not just me expecting too much.

Maybe I come across as impatient or too demanding, but I don't want to pop in The Show 09 & see the same old pitcher/batter animations. But don't get me wrong, obviously not all in 08 was subpar by any means. They did quite an amazing job with the fielding & strike-out animations, as well as the player facial expressions, etc...
This year's game is extraordinary in alot of ways, which makes it crystal clear to see one thing that's hindering complete excellence. That would be the last-gen personalized animations & I'm hoping Chris realizes this enough to make some monumental changes.

Now if animation overhaul is towards the top of their list for 09, then we have nothing to worry about.

[brunnoce]

Quote: Originally Posted by ericjwm

Brunnoce, I agree that some of my statement might of been a bit harsh, which is why I apologized for that towards the end. I'm not really bashing, so much as I am expressing my displeasure in the animations over the last couple versions. I just haven't seen the significant quality jump that I was expecting from PS2 to PS3 so far. The Show 08 was the year of the huge graphics upgrade, so maybe 09 will be the year for the animation overhaul. Chris is cool & I've been interacting with him on OS for many years. So I think he would get what I'm saying & understand why I'm reacting this way from past PM's we've had (unless he's avoiding this topic). I suppose certain stuff like batter follow thru's/swings might be out of his control, but most other things aren't. Just glad I finally have some backup on here so he'll see its not just me expecting too much. Maybe I come across as impatient or too demanding, but I don't want to pop in The Show 09 & see the same old pitcher/batter animations. But don't get me wrong, obviously not all in 08 was subpar by any means. They did quite an amazing job with the fielding & strike-out animations, as well as the player facial expressions, etc... This year's game is extraordinary in alot of ways, which makes it crystal clear to see one thing that's hindering complete excellence. That would be the last-gen personalized animations & I'm hoping Chris realizes this enough to make some monumental changes. Now if animation overhaul is towards the top of their list for 09, then we have nothing to worry about.

well said m8

[FootballForever]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob_NYY

I agree with everything in your original post. The Show 07 was an awesome game, while 2K7 was decent (at best). But one area where 2K7 blew The Show completely out of the water were the signature styles. 2K7 didn't have as many, but the ones they did have were all pretty much perfect. And I would venture to say that most of the signature pitching styles in The Show are inaccurate. There just seems to be something wrong with a lot of them. It's hard to put a finger on it, but it sometimes seems the guy doing the motions seems to drift through the balance point on every delivery, and pitchers with good mechanics just don't drift like that. With the game almost perfect in a lot of area's, I hope re-doing all the signature motions and stances is something that is on the menu for The Show 09 and 10. It's kind of lame having this great awesome next-gen masterpiece with mo-caps from 2004. Honestly, this is pretty much my only gripe with the series.

really? I think the show does the signature a lot better then 2k8.

[ab713]

Quote: Originally Posted by FootballForever

really? I think the show does the signature a lot better then 2k8.

To me, for some reason, the batters in the show look to stiff or even robotic. 2K seems more natural in this department. Also, something about their feet doesn't seem right; i don't know how to explain it. Yesterday I had a chance to see MLB 06 on the PS2 and I can see that they did carry over a lot of the animations from that game. I think thats the main problem, not that they are bad, they just need to be refreshed for the PS3.

[Chris_SCEA_Sports]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chris_SCEA_Sports

Interesting post, Thanks B_B. I don't have time to respond adequately to it right now, but I will soon. I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. Chris

Wow....did I really post that 2 months ago.

What was the topic again?? Oh yeah....personalized animations....

Let me hit a few quick topics...

Manny Ramirez stance...yikes....not good...fixed with the patch...

David Ortiz....hmmm....well, that is really him doing the stance in our motion capture last year...so we tend to go with what he does...as much as I like to direct in the capture session, I usually don't tell the actual player to do his stance more like himself.. so...I was watching SportsCenter last week, and John Kruk does a piece on how Ortiz has changed his stance due to his knee (surgery?) and now he is more upright...and his hands are a appear a bit higher...this has been tweaked in the patch...as the year goes on he may change his stance again...heck, he sometimes tweaks it during a game...

Ryan Howard...I think someone recommended that we be fired for getting his stance wrong.. okay, he DID come in and do motion capture for us, but it was too late to get it in the game (yes, bad scheduling on our part...but I don't control that...) regardless, his newly motioned captured stance is in the patch....

Switch hitters that have different stances from each side of the plate (Chipper Jones says Hello!)... we currently do not have support for this.....

Batters who change their stance during an at bat...I seem to recall Morgan Ensberg a few years ago would start and at bat in an open stance...then with 2 strikes would close up a bit....we currently do not have support from this...

Hidden Batters/Deliveries in the front end....some of this was corrected in the patch...it will be completely fixed in MLB 09.

Follow Thru on pitchers....many of you have pointed out that our "square to the plate" after a pitch does not keep the integrity of the actual person's pitch style....this has been noted...thanks for the feedback....

Okay, so back to the main topic....

Based on most of your feedback in this thread and others, you guys feel that we have some work to do on our personalized animations.....In fact, I think this quote by ericjwn pretty much sums it up....

Quote: Originally Posted by ericjwn

Maybe I come across as impatient or too demanding, but I don't want to pop in The Show 09 & see the same old pitcher/batter animations. But don't get me wrong, obviously not all in 08 was subpar by any means. They did quite an amazing job with the fielding & strike-out animations, as well as the player facial expressions, etc... This year's game is extraordinary in alot of ways, which makes it crystal clear to see one thing that's hindering complete excellence. That would be the last-gen personalized animations & I'm hoping Chris realizes this enough to make some monumental changes. Now if animation overhaul is towards the top of their list for 09, then we have nothing to worry about.

The fact is, I feel we have by far the greatest number of personalized animations, but as many of you have stated, many of these stances/deliveries have gotten stale over the years....

We fully intend to correct this. The animators are currently going over every stance in the game and comparing recent (as in within the last week) video. Pitching deliveries are next on the list. And then we move to NEW stances and deliveries...And then more gameplay, and then cut-scenes, and then crowd....and then MORE gameplay.....and then more cut-scenes..... And then a ton of other stuff...

I'm not sure this response was worth waiting 2 months for, but there ya have it....we hear you and we are on it....

Okay...back to work, or none of this will get done..

Chris

[brunnoce]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chris_SCEA_Sports

Wow....did I really post that 2 months ago. What was the topic again?? Oh yeah....personalized animations.... Let me hit a few quick topics... Manny Ramirez stance...yikes....not good...fixed with the patch... David Ortiz....hmmm....well, that is really him doing the stance in our motion capture last year...so we tend to go with what he does...as much as I like to direct in the capture session, I usually don't tell the actual player to do his stance more like himself.. so...I was watching SportsCenter last week, and John Kruk does a piece on how Ortiz has changed his stance due to his knee (surgery?) and now he is more upright...and his hands are a appear a bit higher...this has been tweaked in the patch...as the year goes on he may change his stance again...heck, he sometimes tweaks it during a game... Ryan Howard...I think someone recommended that we be fired for getting his stance wrong.. okay, he DID come in and do motion capture for us, but it was too late to get it in the game (yes, bad scheduling on our part...but I don't control that...) regardless, his newly motioned captured stance is in the patch.... Switch hitters that have different stances from each side of the plate (Chipper Jones says Hello!)... we currently do not have support for this..... Batters who change their stance during an at bat...I seem to recall Morgan Ensberg a few years ago would start and at bat in an open stance...then with 2 strikes would close up a bit....we currently do not have support from this... Hidden Batters/Deliveries in the front end....some of this was corrected in the patch...it will be completely fixed in MLB 09. Follow Thru on pitchers....many of you have pointed out that our "square to the plate" after a pitch does not keep the integrity of the actual person's pitch style....this has been noted...thanks for the feedback.... Okay, so back to the main topic.... Based on most of your feedback in this thread and others, you guys feel that we have some work to do on our personalized animations.....In fact, I think this quote by ericjwn pretty much sums it up.... The fact is, I feel we have by far the greatest number of personalized animations, but as many of you have stated, many of these stances/deliveries have gotten stale over the years.... We fully intend to correct this. The animators are currently going over every stance in the game and comparing recent (as in within the last week) video. Pitching deliveries are next on the list. And then we move to NEW stances and deliveries...And then more gameplay, and then cut-scenes, and then crowd....and then MORE gameplay.....and then more cut-scenes..... And then a ton of other stuff... I'm not sure this response was worth waiting 2 months for, but there ya have it....we hear you and we are on it.... Okay...back to work, or none of this will get done.. Chris

nice post chris!
thats why we love u guys so much..u listen to us!


so this pacth only changes those 3 stances(manny, ortiz, howard) as far as animations right??
if theres more, please list them to us.