RAZRr1275's Pitch Edits Thread

[slickkill77]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rod_Carew29

I'm not going to go crazy and do everyone I have in my 2009 Franchise, but here are the REAL pitching arsenals for those Rays pitchers: Balfour: 4-seam, curve, slider, changeup (he threw it RARELY in 2008) Shields: 4-seam, cutter, 2-seam, slider, changeup Garza: 4-seam, slider, curve, changeup (if he throws a 2-seamer, I must have missed it) Price: 4-seam, slider, slurve, changeup, cutter

I don't really feel like argueing with you but I watched every rays game.
Garza's best pitch is his 2 seamer. He doesnt throw a normal fb
Price does not throw a slurve nor a cutter. He only throws a fastball, and slider. His change is his weakest pitch but thats it.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...t-david-price/

Shields does not throw a slider.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...059&position=P

Balfour (2.1 % of his pitches were change ups and curve balls combined) Not worth giving it to him. He threw 91.3% FB and 6.6% sliders.

[Rod_Carew29]

there won't be any argument..trust

and I stand by what I posted

there are more multiple sources I go to/rely on/in tune with (take your pick)...that VERIFY what I say.

As I've said many times over the years on OS...certianly longer than you've been a member here....'watching a game' on TV is among the LEAST accurate when it comes to identifying pitches. Some don't want to hear it, but it's the truth

but feel free to have it your way, cause I'm surely having mine

Quote: Originally Posted by slickkill77

I don't really feel like argueing with you but I watched every rays game. Garza's best pitch is his 2 seamer. Price does not throw a slurve nor a cutter. He only throws a fastball, and slider. His change is his weakest pitch but thats it. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...t-david-price/ Shields does not throw a slider. Balfour never threw a curveball or changeup last year

[slickkill77]

When I say watching on tv, I mean they show the pitches that our pitchers throw before the game starts. They have little pictures of the pitchers holding their grips. Do you think they just make it up? I don't have to identify the pitches. Joe Magrane and Dwanye Stats no what they are talking about. Thats fantastic that you have your websites but if you dont watch the team you don't really know


I would like to know where you got those other pitches for price though? Believe me he only throws three pitches

[Rod_Carew29]

I'm not even talking about that

I've been watching baseball for at least 45 years...and i've been involved in the tech end...including pitch tracking and the like, for approximately 5+ years

I stand by what I previously said

Quote: Originally Posted by slickkill77

When I say watching on tv, I mean they show the pitches that our pitchers throw before the game starts. They have little pictures of the pitchers holding their grips. Do you think they just make it up? I would like to know where you got those other pitches for price though? Believe me he only throws three pitches

[slickkill77]

Now I have no clue what your talking about. I'll let you believe what ever you want

[Rod_Carew29]

All I'l say to you is that 'they'...whether it's a book, an e-zine, a website (which usually ain't updated) or even the team's broadcasters...are never the end all.

I've watched Price since that day last year in Spring Trainng when he faced the Yankees. I saw his one game start in 2008 and probably two of his relief appearances prior to the post season.

After all of that (along with the other things I do), here's an example:

IF I see Price (which I detailed) throw more than a few pitches that cut on a horizontal plane at 91mph (which is to be differentiated from a 4-seam fastball inside or a slider that breaks on a tilt), then I'm following up, and I'm on alert to see if it's a cutter. Then in a subsequent inning, one of the broadcaster mentions that he (Price) 'cuts the ball exceedingly well against righties'...then it's a no brainer....

that's just a quick peek into how I roll.....

I've learned a LONG, LONG time ago that all pitchers do not always tell what they throw, many pitchers will try this or that in a select game to do something different, most broadcasters are so busy chatting it up during the game, that they still call changeups breaking pitches--which is not correct, and books and websites are never updated like they should--as I pointed out to one of the guys here the other day when he sent me the link. It didn't have the FACT that Cole Hammels throws TWO changeups--circle and straight. That's my point

Quote: Originally Posted by slickkill77

When I say watching on tv, I mean they show the pitches that our pitchers throw before the game starts. They have little pictures of the pitchers holding their grips. Do you think they just make it up? I don't have to identify the pitches. Joe Magrane and Dwanye Stats no what they are talking about. Thats fantastic that you have your websites but if you dont watch the team you don't really know I would like to know where you got those other pitches for price though? Believe me he only throws three pitches

[Knight165]

Slick

Not trying to pile on or side with anyone..
RC knows what he's talking about.

I use multiple sources when doing my minor league rosters.
Three printed publications....
All three have Price throwing a slurve.
Two...while not listing a cutter say that his fastball has "cutting action".
I would say he probably throws a cut fastball.

M.K.
Knight165

[Rod_Carew29]

Thank you fearless leader....
as we BOTH know, multiple sources are the only way to go!

Quote: Originally Posted by Knight165

Slick Not trying to pile on or side with anyone.. RC knows what he's talking about. I use multiple sources when doing my minor league rosters. Three printed publications.... All three have Price throwing a slurve. Two...while not listing a cutter say that his fastball has "cutting action". I would say he probably throws a cut fastball. M.K. Knight165

[theotherguy619]

Here's another update...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/x8oqh0

Pick it apart, gently. If any changes or additions should be made, I'm listening. But please leave a source.

[Navi's_Navy]

fangraphs.com is a great place to get specific players' pitch types (again, generic fastball is an issue). They really do a great job of compiling pitch FX data there. It will show pitches thrown, % of the time thrown, average velocity (to one decimal place), and I'm not sure if they have specific vertical and horizontal breaks listed. If specific amount of breaks is needed then there are pitchFX sites

http://baseball.bornbybits.com/php/2...brz=-100&l_b=0 (aggregate yearly, but a little faulty every now and then)

and

http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/ (game by game)

They aren't the greatest as pitchFX is still going through a few growing pains, but you can get specific data from these places and possibly translate it to numerical values within the game.

I'm a Rays fan so I can give some specifics on some of the Rays pitchers.
1) Kazmir
Pitch 1 - 4SFB (90-94 MPH)
Pitch 2 - Slider (81-84 MPH) - approx 7-8 inch break vertical break (its been a little higher in the past) - nibbles alot with it lately, could be bad control, but could also be an injury. Difficult to judgeat this point
Pitch 3 - Circle Change (77-81 MPH) - approx 3-5 inch break in to lefties and about 4-6 inch break downward

2) Shields ((he is interesting because I've seen sources have him having a slider and a cutter and some saying they are just cutters. I watch the games and mostly feel they are all cutters, but some of them are slower and are considered sliders because the extra time it takes them to get to the plate allows for more break, screwing up the pitchFX))
Pitch 1 - 4SFB (89-93 MPH)
Pitch 2 - Straight Change (80-83 MPH) - 1 inch vertical break (virtually non-existent), 5-8 inches of vertical break
Pitch 3 - Cutter (87-90) - 1-3 inch vertical break, 4-6 inch horizontal break (tough with conflicting data, but I took the aggregate of the pitch fx tool's slider and cutter data, factored in some personal bias and some basic scouting reports to get the break)
Pitch 4 - Sweeping Curveball (75-79 MPH) - approximatley 10-14 inch horizontal break and an 12-15 inch downward break. Its quite the bender, but he has poor control and poor command of it. The only pitch in his arsenal I would put anywhere near the halfway mark in terms of control.

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I can do a few more of these for all of the Rays pitchers (I'm hoping to watch some spring training games and get a look at all 31 arms in camp this year). I was going to do the full rotation, but I'm a little busy at the moment, but again, if you want me to do these for Rays pitchers (or slightly less accurate ones for pitchers on other teams) just tell me and I'll get them done. I was planning on going through and doing this for the majority of pitchers, but if I can contribute to your efforts and get rosters I'm happy with in the process then we all come out winners.