Top 5 at each position

[ProfessaPackMan]

Well I wasn't really arguing if he was a top 5 Center or not, lol.

My point was that the Center position is weak and the drop off from Duhwight/Bynum as of right NOW is huge and that if Cousins is a Top 5 Center then that's not really saying much. Samething applies to Harden if people consider him a Top 5 SG, which I don't.

[DukeC]

Eh, I don't think it's that huge of a dropoff if any from Bynum to Cousins. At least from a talent perspective. That's where our differences of opinion lay I think.

[ProfessaPackMan]

I do.

But then again, I don't think Cousins is the 3rd best Center in the league though.

[DukeC]

Meh. I guess you can make an argument for Gasol if he wasn't playing beside Randolph. I still think Cousins is better though from an offensive standpoint. Marc is much better defensively though so that might cancel each other out.

I'd consider it Marc 3A and Cousins 3B IMO.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by DukeC

Hrm? Where in that did I insult Parker? I have nothing wrong with guys who put Tony Parker in their Top 5, because I also feel at his peak he's a Top 5 PG. Once his floater gets going he's next to impossible to stop given how quick he is and how easily he's able to get into the lane. However, my list goes Paul, Deron, Rose, Nash, Westbrook, simply because I feel like Westbrook can do what Parker does at a higher level. As for Harden? I feel like if Ginobli is able to crack the Top 5 at SG then Harden should be getting equal consideration also. IMO, it's Kobe, Wade, Ellis, Joe Johnson, then either Ginobli, or Harden take that final spot. Combo guards are an entirely different story I feel. Do we then just categorize them as simply "Guards" and put them in both lists? As for the bad comp thing, I agree there aren't a lot of Centers you can just dump the ball to in the post and let them work. A lot of them are a bunch of stiffs. Cousins is definitely NOT one of those Centers though. Simply by way of his offense (Which is light years ahead of Dwight's, Gortat's, Marc's, and Bynum to an extent) he cracks the Top 5. And he's rebounding at a nice clip by averaging 11 a game. He's certainly talented enough to BE a Top 5 Center even with competition though, which is what I was arguing. Stats and footage of his game tend to back my opinion up favorably.

Didn't say you insulted Parker but it's a bad comparison. The PG position is loaded while the C position is kind of weak. So Parker not cracking the top 5 could make sense despite how good he is, while an average C could still be top 5 at his position. Not saying Cousins fits that criteria just that it's a bad comparison. The SG to C comparison is a better one.

Harden doesn't belong on the same level as Ginobli. Don't really know if more needs to be said. I haven't thought it through but I think there are others ahead of him as well. His regular season wasn't THAT great and his post season was worse than that. People are putting too much on his potential.

[DukeC]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Didn't say you insulted Parker but it's a bad comparison. The PG position is loaded while the C position is kind of weak. So Parker not cracking the top 5 could make sense despite how good he is, while an average C could still be top 5 at his position. Not saying Cousins fits that criteria just that it's a bad comparison. The SG to C comparison is a better one. Harden doesn't belong on the same level as Ginobli. Don't really know if more needs to be said. I haven't thought it through but I think there are others ahead of him as well. His regular season wasn't THAT great and his post season was worse than that. People are putting too much on his potential.

I get what you're saying. My bad on the bad comparison PG wise.

Eh. I think Marc is an average center. But, I've watched games where Cousins is literally unstoppable and grabbing every single rebound in existence.









Now, I may be biased since I'm a Kings fans...but the only Centers in the NBA I think can dominate the way Cousins does is Bynum and Howard. Does he do it on a consistent basis? No, but that's partly because it's only his second year and partly because he commits 4 fouls a game. Those were all this year by the way.

My bad on the Ginobli comparison part. I was only looking at it from a 6th man POV. There was serious debate as to who was the 2nd best shooting guard during his prime between him and D-Wade. I just feel like Ginobli isn't durable enough anymore and that's where Harden gains ground on him so to speak. But yeah, I'm probably giving too much credit to Harden simply because I like his game.

[Rule of Two]

What makes DeMarcus Cousins' game even more impressive is the fact he doesn't play above the rim. Still, he's almost a 20/10 guy night in and night out. Hopefully he can mature and fulfil his potential.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by DukeC

I get what you're saying. My bad on the bad comparison PG wise. Eh. I think Marc is an average center. But, I've watched games where Cousins is literally unstoppable and grabbing every single rebound in existence. Now, I may be biased since I'm a Kings fans...but the only Centers in the NBA I think can dominate the way Cousins does is Bynum and Howard. Does he do it on a consistent basis? No, but that's partly because it's only his second year and partly because he commits 4 fouls a game. Those were all this year by the way. My bad on the Ginobli comparison part. I was only looking at it from a 6th man POV. There was serious debate as to who was the 2nd best shooting guard during his prime between him and D-Wade. I just feel like Ginobli isn't durable enough anymore and that's where Harden gains ground on him so to speak. But yeah, I'm probably giving too much credit to Harden simply because I like his game.

I don't put much weight in potential when talking about a top (insert #) right now, so I would have to take his inconsistency and fouling issues into account. Still not sure I wouldn't keep him at 3 though. I'd have to look into it more so I'm not really arguing against cousins. It was really the Parker and Harden comments that caught my eye.

Ginobli's injury issues could be an issue with his placement, I could see that. But whether it's Ginobli or someone else, Harden doesn't deserve this much recognition imo. He still needs to prove to me he's not just Ben Gordon. If Gordon's entire career was in a controlled roll like Harden's has been, is there really much of a difference? It may be a similar case of there just not being that many SGs worth mentioning at all so his name is up there by default but that's hard for me to believe.

In your other post you touched on the combo guards. I think you just have to throw them on a list... or both guard lists. That would make more sense than leaving them off both lists completely. Again, don't have any names I'm talking about right now. Just a feeling that some aren't considered bc they don't have a real position (even though I'd put Harden in that category and he is getting love).

[Riddler]

Quote: Originally Posted by chance

Can you name me one thing KD does better than Melo?

I'm not seriously having this conversation. Durant is the best player in the league not named LeBron, and he sure as hell is better than Melo. End of story.

[ehh]

Every single list in this thread has Love as the best PF in the NBA. Just crazy that we've come to that.