Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

[TajDeni]

ppl sure are giving KD a major pass on the totality of his basketball game. he doesnt have to carry hardly any of the burdens other superstars have to carry for their teams.

KD and Melo are basically the same player, and if Melo ever gets a real pg again ppl will come to understand this

but as usual its always the last man standing in the playoffs type of thing. last yr around this time ppl were saying Dirk was the best offensive player in the nba

also, on what grounds is wade better than kobe, seeing alot of that as i read through this thread. if wade loses his athleticism his career is basically over. he has no other foundation to fall back on.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by TajDeni

ppl sure are giving KD a major pass on the totality of his basketball game. he doesnt have to carry hardly any of the burdens other superstars have to carry for their teams. KD and Melo are basically the same player, and if Melo ever gets a real pg again ppl will come to understand this but as usual its always the last man standing in the playoffs type of thing. last yr around this time ppl were saying Dirk was the best offensive player in the nba also, on what grounds is wade better than kobe, seeing alot of that as i read through this thread. if wade loses his athleticism his career is basically over. he has no other foundation to fall back on.

Which, in debates like "who is the top 5 players in the league RIGHT NOW" is basically the equivalent of saying "Take away Kobe's jumpshot and how good is he then?"

[KSOR24]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeah...THAT Guy

Which, in debates like "who is the top 5 players in the league RIGHT NOW" is basically the equivalent of saying "Take away Kobe's jumpshot and how good is he then?"

Ikr, take away Ray Allen's jump shot and how good is he then? But athleticism does have a big part to do with areas of a player's game. The league is being taken over by athletic freaks, that's why I respect Andre Miller or Jason Kidd, they're still getting it done despite their bodies being very worn down because their game doesn't rely on athleticism.

[TajDeni]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeah...THAT Guy

Which, in debates like "who is the top 5 players in the league RIGHT NOW" is basically the equivalent of saying "Take away Kobe's jumpshot and how good is he then?"

i disagree, for 1 in this discussion we've already taken away his elite athleticism (age and knee) and now you wanna take away his jumpshot 2? ok, take it. he still has P4P the best post game in the league, to go along with unquestionably the best footwork in the entire league. he could avg around 18-20pts/g playing exclusively from the post alone. now back to his jumpshot, he's already lost his pinky on his shooting hand, not to mention the loss of ligaments in his wrist. and the man completely revamps his release on the fly? let me type that again, the man revamps what takes yrs of practice and muscle memory to perfect, on the fly! i mean what more do you want? who else in the league has this level of different fundamentals to fall back on? ya gotta be kiddin me!

at the end of the day heres what its about in the long run, whose game is built around the cake and whose game is built around the icing. clearly we know which group Kobi-Wan is in.

again like i stated previously, take away wade's athleticism and he has no other foundation with which to stand on..

ill let wade tell ya in his own words - paraphrasing, Kobe is great at every aspect of the game, he has what we called mastered the game. (skip to 4:07 mark)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by TajDeni

i disagree, for 1 in this discussion we've already taken away his elite athleticism (age and knee) and now you wanna take away his jumpshot 2? ok, take it. he still has P4P the best post game in the league, to go along with unquestionably the best footwork in the entire league. he could avg around 18-20pts/g playing exclusively from the post alone. now back to his jumpshot, he's already lost his pinky on his shooting hand, not to mention the loss of ligaments in his wrist. and the man completely revamps his release on the fly? let me type that again, the man revamps what takes yrs of practice and muscle memory to perfect, on the fly! i mean what more do you want? who else in the league has this level of different fundamentals to fall back on? ya gotta be kiddin me! at the end of the day heres what its about in the long run, whose game is built around the cake and whose game is built around the icing. clearly we know which group Kobi-Wan is in. again like i stated previously, take away wade's athleticism and he has no other foundation with which to stand on..

...but we're talking about who the better player is today. Wade has his athleticism today. That's why that's such an inappropriate argument to make. Wade is the better player today and it isn't even close. He has Kobe beaten in basically every single statistical category that is important. Kobe actually gave up more points per 100 possessions than he contributed this year. That's not good. lol

[kayfngee]

Quote: Originally Posted by TajDeni

KD and Melo are basically the same player, and if Melo ever gets a real pg again ppl will come to understand this

They aren't the same player. Durant scores while shooting a good percentage. Anthony scores while being a bulk shooter and shooting a much lower percentage. Also Durant doesn't force as many bad shots as Carmelo.

[TajDeni]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeah...THAT Guy

...but we're talking about who the better player is today. Wade has his athleticism today. That's why that's such an inappropriate argument to make. Wade is the better player today and it isn't even close. He has Kobe beaten in basically every single statistical category that is important. Kobe actually gave up more points per 100 possessions than he contributed this year. That's not good. lol

i see your point but originally i was arguing the question of on what grounds are ppl saying that wade is a better player than kobe 2day. because i personally dont hold that opinion. sorry if that got lost but that was my original question. after that i was responding to the response

ftr: and i do think we are seeing the beginning stages of wade losing his athleticism.

Note:
lastly i find it very hard to compare these particular guys to kobe because their prime eras dont overlap. i mean AB today is prolly better 2day than Timmy, but i find it highly difficult to let those words escape my lips out of respect, because i know when Timmy was AB age, he'd destroy him. feel the same about Kobe. the fact that this thread even exist is a testment to kobe not those other names

[TajDeni]

Quote: Originally Posted by kayfngee

They aren't the same player. Durant scores while shooting a good percentage. Anthony scores while being a bulk shooter and shooting a much lower percentage. Also Durant doesn't force as many bad shots as Carmelo.

i disagree because KD is usually on the finishing end of plays, whereas Melo has noone to create or setup the play for him, so basically he has to create and make the play. which is going to reduce any players efficiency. when Melo played with Chancey he was considered by many as the most efficient scorer in the league. no pg and this is what happens.

also add in the fact that not only does Melo have to create and make his own shots but then he's expected to create offense for others. something durant is not asked to do at all or on a very limiting basis.

Melo, like Durant, is a finisher and when he gets other players who can setup the table for him like durant has currently Melo's effeciancy will improve dramaticly.

so really thats the only thing seperating them now, Melo has more burdens to carry.

[TajDeni]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeah...THAT Guy

...but we're talking about who the better player is today. Wade has his athleticism today. That's why that's such an inappropriate argument to make. Wade is the better player today and it isn't even close. He has Kobe beaten in basically every single statistical category that is important. Kobe actually gave up more points per 100 possessions than he contributed this year. That's not good. lol

im not really a stat guy because i think they tend to start to lack context in the long run, though they have their place and part to play in the larger picture. so if you wanna argue efficency we can get into that, but skill 4 skill wade has never at no point in his career been on kobes level, not yesterday, today or tomorrow imo

[JerzeyReign]

Quote: Originally Posted by SteelersFreak

Russell Westbrook is better than Carmelo and Dirk?

Ummm, his stats are right up there with their stats -- he has a case. Please make a case for Dirk being Top 5 right now. Lets end all that elitist "swag" you got goin' on right now...

Quote: Originally Posted by AlexBrady

I would agree that its about more than just copping a ring. However, there are reasons why alot of the so called 'greats' don't have one. John Stockton was an incredible passer and spot shooter, plus he was a master at changing speeds off his dribble and moving without the ball. He doesn't have a ring because Karl Malone was a choke artist. Its also tough to fault Wilkens for not winning a ring since he could do everything on the court (besides playing overwhelming defense). Pete Maravich was a terrific shooter and scorer, but he was a loser. He never played defense and he totally monopolized the ball. The year before Maravich joined the club, the Hawks were an up and coming 48 win ballclub. With Maravich aboard the Hawks won 36 games the next year. Sure, he drew SRO crowds, but he was strictly a one man show. Derek Fisher on his own isn't close to Maravich. But in context with the five man game he is the better player. Infinitely better position defense, ace spot shooting, and savvy passes to key team offense. For sure, Gervin was a more versatile scorer than Robert Horry was. On his own he is better. But in a team setting, Horry is the pick. Big shot Rob simply made more transcendent plays in the clutch, big time treys and traffic rebounds were just business as usual. Elgin Baylor was another one dimensional star, he could score in bunches and rule the boards. But his defense was abysmal and he only passed when he couldn't see the basket. After he was forced into retirement, the Lakers went on a tear that ended in a Title. LeBron's greatness is mostly a function of his numbers. He actually can't defend all that great (certainly not at a DeBusschere or Rodman level).

Every player has their weakness -- good reasearch but it still doesn't take away from any of those player's greatness on a basketball court. No one harps on Jordan's horrid 3pt shooting, right?

And then you add in the bolded part -- bruh, you just compared two power forwards to a small forward? If you don't see the D that LBJ plays then I can't help you. And those two guys are great defenders but the best defensive power forward to me is Timmy D -- Mr. Fundamentals