NBA Offseason Moves & News Discussion (PG 1 - Updates)

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by Eman5805

In that case, you can't use what happened last year and say that there's no guarantee that the Lakers will be as good. If I had said that, I'd get a buncha comments makin' fun of me. It's not a 1 to 1 comparison, but it's just a bench mark. There's a precedent for a team in the NBA to have a less than stellar roster in the West and notching a big winning season. And the team that year wasn't all that young and outside of CP3 and Julian Wright(who regressed HARD after that year) we had no good young players. Maybe you could count David West. Maybe. Besides, there's no fun in playing the wait and see game. I like makin' predictions and forecasts in the NBA. Like me saying the Mavs'll never win a title with Dirk Nowtizki as their best player. If I'm wrong and this team is horrible, the sun would still rise the next day. I remember when the Saints used to suck, so I'm used to disappointment.

Making predictions based on what happened three years ago is completely different from making predictions based on last year.

[Eman5805]

Yeah, I know. It's a difference of 2 years. I watched Sesame Street. I can subtract.

But what, am I supposed to completely disregard what happened in the past though? I'm not saying just because it happened in the past means it will happen again. I'm just saying it HAS happened. That's what I mean by precedence. The team won't even be following the same model as that year. That roster had a lot of older, slower players. This roster has just the opposite.

And like the NBA landscape has changed, so have the players still on this team. Chris Paul is easily a better player now than he was then. Our bench is, on paper, better than it was then.

It's odd to me how 50+ wins sounds ridiculous to some.

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnDoe8865

I'm still trying to figure out how someone used Pop Mensa Bonsu, Joe Alexander, Jason Smith, and Marco Belinelli to help support an argument for a team to be competitive ...

I used 'em as part of a larger point in #4. I knew I should've made 'em the central point @ #2 instead. Silly me.

Pops, Alexander, and Smith are going to be bottom of the lineup types, to be sure, but they sure as HELL beat out Melvin Evy, Morris Peterson, and Darius Songaila. From scrubs a few years from retirement to athletic scrubs with potential is a big plus for me. Not like even the Lakers bottom of the lineup guys were all that stellar. Adam Morrison? DJ Mbenga? Josh Powell?

I've already said the top 8-9 players on a team are what make your roster. And they are, in no special order after the top 5...

Chris Paul
Marcus Thornton (will be 6th man, according to Williams)
Trevor Ariza
David West
Emeka Okafor
Quincy Pondexter
Willie Green
Marco Belinelli
Aaron Gray

Sure beats the heck out of a lineup with James Posey, Morris Peterson, and Darius Songaila in it like last year. You may underestimate Belinelli, but that's fine. I made a point to watch him during the FIBA tournament, and, yeah, yeah I know, not the NBA. But dude was pretty much their PG and plays the game with intelligence, has a great stroke from deep, and has said time and time again he wants to defend better. He's going to handle the rock for us and facilitate some offense when CP3 is having a breather.

I'm not expecting him to be Manu Ginobli or anything, but a more Rudy Fernandez minus the attitude? Sure.

[ex carrabba fan]

KMart sounds off. Again. I mean I sort of understand where he's coming from, but this is your contract year, you better get your butt in shape or else nobody is going to give you what you're looking for next year.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/...-from-nuggets/

[jmood88]

1. The 2007 team was the one that won 56 games. 2. This argument is ridiculous. I don't know why you think what happened in 2007 or 2008 is relevant to now but it isn't and it certainly isn't as relevant as what happened last year. If they win 50+ games and are a high seed that's great, what I don't understand is why you two are getting so offended because no one else expects that to happen.

[Eman5805]

I never said it was the same as what happened last year. I'm not even sure why this is the sticking point, but I'll try again...

First, I already know that what happened 3 years ago isn't the same as how it is today. I'm not some simple minded child. But I do know what precedent means. I've already seen evidence a relatively weak roster with a superstar and some decent pieces in the starting 5 can win a lot of games in the past. Does it fully justify saying they'll win such and such number of games this year? No, not by itself. But it sure as hell doesn't point in the other direction either.

All I'm saying, ALL I'M SAYING, is that there's no reason to think what happened before, can't happen again. Not exactly in the same situation, but a similar outcome is possible.

That's all I'm saying.

Besides, if what happened 3 years ago + two quarters equals $.50, then why are entire threads made up of people debating who is better, Kobe in his prime or MJ in his prime? They played in completely different eras of basketball. There's nothing to compare right. But I know I've posted in threads one way or the other. I bet you've at least thought about it when seeing threads like that.

"Without yesterday there wouldn't be a today." Anonymous


Also, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm not offended. I'm engaging in discussion. What, was I supposed to politely disagree and never defend my position when someone talks it down? Arguing the point is what I do, player.

[jmood88]

First of all, if you don't want me bringing the 3 years then don't talk about it. If you want to talk about precedent then talk about how the Hornets were an average team the last couple of years that got their asses beat in the playoffs in 2008. Hey, the Warriors have been awful but they went to playoffs and won a series, there's precedent for a team with no depth to go in the playoffs and win so based on that people should start talking about how they can do that this year. Of course anything is possible before the season starts but you need to stop getting mad and/or exasperated when people don't agree with your predictions.

The whole Sesame Street thing and "I'm not some simple minded child" thing, acting like I was talking down to you makes it look like you got offended. If you don't want to come off that way then look over your post before you submit it.

[King_B_Mack]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

First of all, if you don't want me bringing the 3 years then don't talk about it. If you want to talk about precedent then talk about how the Hornets were an average team the last couple of years that got their asses beat in the playoffs in 2008. Hey, the Warriors have been awful but they went to playoffs and won a series, there's precedent for a team with no depth to go in the playoffs and win so based on that people should start talking about how they can do that this year. Of course anything is possible before the season starts but you need to stop getting mad and/or exasperated when people don't agree with your predictions. The whole Sesame Street thing and "I'm not some simple minded child" thing, acting like I was talking down to you makes it look like you got offended. If you don't want to come off that way then look over your post before you submit it.

Good post man. I seriously don't get this 'three years ago we did this so it'll be the same this year' logic. There are several factors that come into play throughout this entire thing. The West is not the same West that it was then. The West had seven games seperate the number one seed from the eight seed last year. How much better than other bottom rung teams in the West will they be? The East will be significantly better this year, will they be able to beat the Bulls? The Magic? The C's, the Heat, the Hawks will be a tough matchup, the Bucks could be a team capable of beating them. There's more to it than just saying CP3 has weapons they'll be a 2-5 in the West now. Why not go full out with the ridiculous precedences? That team with a lesser roster as you guys are saying won 56 games that year so by your logic they should now win 60+ and anything less than a one seed is a disppointment.

[Eman5805]

It's quite easy to get a lil' heated in my posts when I'm having things I say be labeled as "ridiculous" and my "logic" challenged (logic is in quotes cuz...that ain't really my logic. More on that later). A little like a slap in the face, honestly. But I'm a very unusual poster that says lines that like the Sesame Street thing. But when I do, my tongue is firmly in cheek. But it's easy to see how someone can misinterpret it, so...yeah. I'll spell it out from here on in.

Anywho...

Okay. Okay. Let's take it from the top. Again.

My "logic" is not, reiterate, NOT, "three years ago we did this so it'll be the same this year". That's a "ridiculous" oversimplification.

I'm well aware that 3 years ago does not = today. I know there are numerous other factors to consider. I've already said that there's no 1 to 1 comparison between this team, and now I'll add, and this NBA to the Hornets and NBA of then. I only intended for the comment to illustrate that similar success can be obtained. But then I went into other reasons outside of the 3 years to today thing. Like GM Dell Demps shipping out our dead weight in Posey, Julian Wright, and Morris Peterson. Bringing in younger, more athletic guys. Monty Williams wants to run, so we have players that can run. He wants to put defense first, so we got players that can defend. Among other things.

So, I'm not basing all of this off the 3 years to today thing. I never was. It came first in my posts, so you might get that idea, but eh. I must've been writing a persuasive essay and the 3 years to today thing was my thesis cuz I brought it up first. /tongue in cheek

Let me take you through my thought process: I look at this roster. I look at CP3 that had to watch the playoffs from home and see someone in Rondo, that I don't think CP3's too fond of, have this success. And I know Chris Paul wants to win more than anything. So I have reason to believe he's gonna bring it this year. And I have reason to believe this roster is the best he's ever played with.

I look at Marcus Thornton a player that's got the potential to be better than the players he's compared to like Ben Gordan, Jason Terry, or Jamal Crawford. That's just how I see it. I look at Trevor Ariza and know that this team has a perimeter defender to match up with the best scorer on the other team. I look at Quincy Pondexter that showed me a lil' sum-somethin' in Summer League that translates well to the big boys game. Among other factors.

If health is not a major issue, I see good things will happen for this squad. So, I don't expect people to agree with me. What I do expect is for whoever doesn't agree to debate me like a man. And not just thumb your nose at me like I'm speaking complete nonsense. Maybe I take things a lil' too to heart, but...that's how I am.

And finally, in truth, I want this year to be better than the 07-08 season. They blew a 3-2 lead against the Spurs in the West semis. I don't want an exact repeat of that season to happen. If we go beyond the 1st round, I want it all after that. That year is just a measuring stick in my head, a simple bench mark. Is it so "ridiculous" to compare an old team to a new one? I mean, forget the rest of the NBA for a moment , is it so wrong to look at the rosters side by side in a vacuum and say "Hot damn, we're better (on paper) than that one." You're telling me this is an exclusive to me alone mindset here?

C'mon nah, people.

[V!n$an!+y]

Carlos Boozer out for 8 weeks with a broken hand. Bad sign, in my opinion..

[ex carrabba fan]

Quote: Originally Posted by V!n$an!+y

Carlos Boozer out for 8 weeks with a broken hand. Bad sign, in my opinion..

Lame

F injuries