2003-04 ALL NBA 1ST TEAM vs ALL ROOKIE 1ST TEAM

[Cebby]

Right now: All NBA. They have too much size, and Kidd wouldn't be a huge liability because of Hinrich. Shaq, Duncan, and a KG who wears his big boy pants and will be in the paint instead of shooting mid range jumpers would dominate the front line of Bosh and Melo.

At their peak: All NBA in a slaughter

With their benches: All NBA

[Bornindamecca]

I see why all of these conversations end up in debates for me. The Rookie team votes seem to be offensively based. I get it. The rookies have some scorers.

However, the 1st team is so superior defensively its not even funny. With Kidd at PG and the extremely high IQ of the big men on that lineup, I don't think the 2nd team could generate the turnovers to make it an uptempo game. Rebounding would be a HUGE problem for the rooks as well. Traditionally when a team has better rebounding, a better post game, a great clutch shooter and the superior point guard, it wins the game.

[ex carrabba fan]

I just worry about the perimeter game for the First team. They have none LOL.

Defensively, the Rookie team is good enough IMO. Wade and LeBron are coming around on that end.. Bosh and Melo would have a tough time on the inside obviously.

Their transition game would murder with Ford as the point guard.

[JBH3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bornindamecca

I see why all of these conversations end up in debates for me. The Rookie team votes seem to be offensively based. I get it. The rookies have some scorers. However, the 1st team is so superior defensively its not even funny. With Kidd at PG and the extremely high IQ of the big men on that lineup, I don't think the 2nd team could generate the turnovers to make it an uptempo game. Rebounding would be a HUGE problem for the rooks as well. Traditionally when a team has better rebounding, a better post game, a great clutch shooter and the superior point guard, it wins the game.

The whole idea of this is these players playing each other right now...Not when in their primes because Lebron hasn't even entered that, and we don't know what he'd be like at that point.

The KG that we mostly see now, who takes mid-range jumpers more than he roves the paint, would be the KG in this one...Not the 03-04 MVP KG that landed him on this All-NBA squad.

[Bornindamecca]

Quote: Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

I just worry about the perimeter game for the First team. They have none LOL. Defensively, the Rookie team is good enough IMO. Wade and LeBron are coming around on that end.. Bosh and Melo would have a tough time on the inside obviously. Their transition game would murder with Ford as the point guard.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Kidd is servicable, and any shots he takes would be WIDE OPEN. I'm not even going to comment at saying Kobe is not a factor in the perimeter game. KG and TD's range both extend to a reliable 17 feet.

Defensively, they match up terribly for the rooks. They are coming around on perimeter defense and transition defense. They can't defend Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Shaq. There is no evidence that any of the five rooks(I'm not touching this second team madness) can defend in the post, and Kobe Bryant can score very well against all but the very greatest of defenses, so I don't see how offense is a problem.

Speaking of perimeter play...sink into a zone on that rookie team and watch what happens, especially with the length and defensive IQ of the 1st team. We are talking about a huge disparity in defense here. You don't even have the personnel to run a pick and roll against the 1st team, because KG is there as one of the all time great versatile defenders. If you penetrate, Shaq, Duncan and KG are extremely hard to finish against, and Kobe is no slouch on weak side help, plus Kidd is going to still strip people(STILL avg 2.5 steals per).

The Rooks would never know what a transition game was like.

[ex carrabba fan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bornindamecca

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Kidd is servicable, and any shots he takes would be WIDE OPEN. I'm not even going to comment at saying Kobe is not a factor in the perimeter game. KG and TD's range both extend to a reliable 17 feet. Defensively, they match up terribly for the rooks. They are coming around on perimeter defense and transition defense. They can't defend Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Shaq. There is no evidence that any of the five rooks(I'm not touching this second team madness) can defend in the post, and Kobe Bryant can score very well against all but the very greatest of defenses, so I don't see how offense is a problem. Speaking of perimeter play...sink into a zone on that rookie team and watch what happens, especially with the length and defensive IQ of the 1st team. We are talking about a huge disparity in defense here. You don't even have the personnel to run a pick and roll against the 1st team, because KG is there as one of the all time great versatile defenders. If you penetrate, Shaq, Duncan and KG are extremely hard to finish against, and Kobe is no slouch on weak side help, plus Kidd is going to still strip people(STILL avg 2.5 steals per). The Rooks would never know what a transition game was like.

Kidd is not a threat. I guess that is something we won't agree with apparently. He isn't even servicable IMO. He's an extremely streaky shooter.

LBJ has historically played Kobe straight up, and has for the most part held him at bay.

As far as the First team defending the pick and roll, get Shaq's man involved and it's a wrap.

Bosh and Melo are deadly midrange shooters.

The inside advantage for the First team wouldn't last the entire game, there would be opportunities for the Rooks to get out and run, so I think you were exaggerating a bit with that.

It's not like I'm putting a full endorsement out there for the Rooks, but if there was money involved and I was forced, I'd roll with them.

[Bornindamecca]

Quote: Originally Posted by JBH3

The whole idea of this is these players playing each other right now...Not when in their primes because Lebron hasn't even entered that, and we don't know what he'd be like at that point. The KG that we mostly see now, who takes mid-range jumpers more than he roves the paint, would be the KG in this one...Not the 03-04 MVP KG that landed him on this All-NBA squad.

Kevin Garnett takes approximately 3/5 of his shots in or around the paint, and shoots a good percentage on those midrange J's.

[ex carrabba fan]

Let me also add to this:

It would depend on the coaching.

Thinking back on the Olympics, as deadly as Melo, Bosh, Kobe are at shooting, they STILL struggled with the zone.

Also, in a one game format, I mean you're not going to be able to predict the outcome. On any given Sunday, anything can happen.

I think it should be a 7-game series.

If the First team sunk into a zone, with the proper coaching the Rooks would definitely exploit that.

If the Rooks ran a zone, I'm not sure the First team could respond. Just throwin that out there.

[Bornindamecca]

Quote: Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Kidd is not a threat. I guess that is something we won't agree with apparently. He isn't even servicable IMO. He's an extremely streaky shooter.

Kidd doesn't have to be a threat. He only has to play the way he's playing for Dallas right now to capitalize on the strengths of the rest of the team.

Quote: Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

LBJ has historically played Kobe straight up, and has for the most part held him at bay.

The Cavs play a roaming zone on Kobe, with shadow defenders behind Lebron. He wouldn't have the same luxury with the matchups of these teams. Not even close. The rooks don't have the shotblocking to stop Bean from finishing around the rim, and the 1st team's inside presence is too much for them to play the kind of zone to help keep Kobe in front of Lebron.

Quote: Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

As far as the First team defending the pick and roll, get Shaq's man involved and it's a wrap.

I addressed that point. The presence of Kevin Garnett prevents you from having to be put in that position.

Quote: Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Bosh and Melo are deadly midrange shooters.

They would live and die by those jumpers. Mostly die. Bosh would have a LOT of trouble matching up in this game.

Quote: Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

The inside advantage for the First team wouldn't last the entire game, there would be opportunities for the Rooks to get out and run, so I think you were exaggerating a bit with that.

I really don't think you can exaggerate the inside advantage of Tim Duncan, Shaq and KG. I really don't. If you have those three players, you'd better get me Olajuwon, Ewing, Kareem, Malone or something. They are just too good and too smart and too big for that Rookie lineup.

On the 1st team are 9 out of the last 10 championships, with no one on the rookie team even contending for one of those championships.

[ex carrabba fan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bornindamecca

Kidd doesn't have to be a threat. He only has to play the way he's playing for Dallas right now to capitalize on the strengths of the rest of the team. The Cavs play a roaming zone on Kobe, with shadow defenders behind Lebron. He wouldn't have the same luxury with the matchups of these teams. Not even close. The rooks don't have the shotblocking to stop Bean from finishing around the rim, and the 1st team's inside presence is too much for them to play the kind of zone to help keep Kobe in front of Lebron. I addressed that point. The presence of Kevin Garnett prevents you from having to be put in that position. They would live and die by those jumpers. Mostly die. Bosh would have a LOT of trouble matching up in this game. I really don't think you can exaggerate the inside advantage of Tim Duncan, Shaq and KG. I really don't. If you have those three players, you'd better get me Olajuwon, Ewing, Kareem, Malone or something. They are just too good and too smart and too big for that Rookie lineup. On the 1st team are 9 out of the last 10 championships, with no one on the rookie team even contending for one of those championships.

You're puttin me in a situation I don't even want to be in because I agree with a lot, if not everything you have to say.

I guess what it boils down to in this scenario, is the feeling old feeling I get from the First team.

In a 7-game series, I'm runnin with the Rooks.

It's unfair to compare rings at this point too.