LAL need to trade for McGrady

[Brankles]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bornindamecca

The Lakers already came out of the West easily without Ariza, Bynum or a whole year of playing with Pau. How is Tracy more complete than Dwayne Wade? I can't see how his size is a factor in that comparison, because Dwayne has a much more physical game, and is more effective near the basket on both sides of the floor, and has no problem getting his shot off, which are all the advantages of size.

I don't want to turn this into a DWade vs TMac debate, but I'll nibble on the bait.

McGrady is a better shooter (41.7% 3pt this season), is taller (6'8" to 6'4"), and has better court vision (although Wade gets more assists due to his combo guard position TMac has a better A:TO ratio). Few players in the league are playing better than Wade right now, including Kobe Bryant, so I can't argue against Wade's scoring ability and his toughness, which is unmatched.

TMac's up there with LeBron, DWade and Paul Pierce as the most complete swingmen in the league, or will be when he gets back from his three week injury rest.


I just think if the Lakers had traded Ariza and Odom for TMac last season, they'd all be wearing rings right now. A healthy Ariza wouldn't have made a difference. TMac, Kobe and Pau is a much more dangerous trio than Ray, Pierce and KG, imo.

LA is a better team than they were last year, but that doesn't mean they'd be less good if they added another superstar, especially one that doesn't create locker-room problems and plays team basketball.

It's one thing to not want TMac because you think he'll be injured during the most important part of the season (the playoffs, even though he hasn't missed a post-season game in his career, of which his teams made it 6 out of the last 7 years).
It's another thing entirely if you think the Lakers would be a worse team with TMac, who averaged 27, 8 and 7 in the playoffs last year against the WCF runner-up Jazz and 28, 7 and 6 in the playoffs for his career.


If I'm a Lakers fan, I want to build my team to succeed in the playoffs and would be willing to part with two solid players for a team-oriented superstar and an almost automatic championship, even if the guy does miss on average 10 or 15 games a season. This wouldn't be some Shaq for Marion type of deal, where it completely changes your team, locks you down with a ridiculous salary, and gives you some old bum who can barely play anymore.

This is a 2004 Shaq-for-Odom/Caron Butler or KG-for-Jefferson/Telfair type of deal, a formula that resulted in championships for both the Heat and the Celtics immediately following the trades.


This trade is a hypothetical, something that the Rockets would never do, because it would make their team much worse and the Lakers much better.

To say "I don't want to do this trade if I'm LA" does not make much logical basketball sense, unless you really truly believe that this three week knee injury he has is a sign that his career is over and he will be useless in the playoffs (even though history has proven otherwise when he's had worse injuries).

[Bornindamecca]

I'll try to keep this short.

Re: Mac v. Wade (social studies kids see the joke in that, )
Mac is not a better shooter, he is a better 3pt shooter. Wade is far superior in midrange and from the stripe. Far superior. I'm not going to argue the court vision, but I disagree and we can leave it at that to keep this from going off of the rails.

My argument does partially revolve around the idea that the straight up Mac for Odom trade wouldn't happen. So other pieces would be involved somehow. But besides that, there is also:
-I don't see Mac coming off of the bench, which would change the Lakers drastically
-If a 12-2 team is going to make a change, it should be to supplement their weaknesses. Scoring and passing are not the Lakers' weaknesses
-For McGrady, I think he'd rather win as a leader before becoming Kobe's sidekick and perhaps a third option behind Pau.

[Brankles]

Quote: Originally Posted by JBH3

Any attempt to prove otherwise is futile since you both seem to be homerized and slanted on McGrady being the perfect 'fit' in LA.

Typical response. Fight numbers, stats, records, reasoning and history with one of the two "H" words.

What's really surprising is that you held back on one of those first round/lazy eye zingers. Man, I love those.

[JBH3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brankles

Typical response. Fight numbers, stats, records, reasoning and history with one of the two "H" words. What's really surprising is that you held back on one of those first round/lazy eye zingers. Man, I love those.

No not really...At every corner its McGrady is what LA needs, Odom sucks, here's some arbitrary stats and see McGrady should be on LA because its an instant ring.

Its pointless...

[Brankles]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bornindamecca

I'll try to keep this short. Re: Mac v. Wade (social studies kids see the joke in that, ) Mac is not a better shooter, he is a better 3pt shooter. Wade is far superior in midrange and from the stripe. Far superior. I'm not going to argue the court vision, but I disagree and we can leave it at that to keep this from going off of the rails. My argument does partially revolve around the idea that the straight up Mac for Odom trade wouldn't happen. So other pieces would be involved somehow. But besides that, there is also: 1 I don't see Mac coming off of the bench, which would change the Lakers drastically 2 If a 12-2 team is going to make a change, it should be to supplement their weaknesses. Scoring and passing are not the Lakers' weaknesses 3 For McGrady, I think he'd rather win as a leader before becoming Kobe's sidekick and perhaps a third option behind Pau.

I disagree that Wade is far superior than TMac in the mid-range game. He may be better, but not by a whole lot. Making free throws doesn't make you a good shooter, either, but Wade is a better FT shooter. My response had to do more with the ball in play and thinking about pieces to the basketball puzzle. TMac can run 4 positions, Wade can run 2. TMac can fit into more roles than Wade. Wade may be better in certain areas, like driving, strength and perimeter defense, but I think TMac has more tools than Dwyane. Anyways, that's a whole other topic, and I'm just going to leave it there.

As far as the trade, I agree with your points.
1. TMac is about 4 years away from coming off the bench for teams. No way he doesn't start, unless it's the Dream Team.

2. The Lakers don't NEED TMac. They can still win 60+ games without him. Adding him would just strengthen their strengths further and would separate them even further from their competition, especially in the playoffs.

3. TMac made it clear in his interview that he didn't want to be traded now, he just said it might be cool to play with Kobe down the road. Also, if the trade happened, I don't know if TMac would necessarily become a sidekick to Kobe and Pau. It would be one of the most intriguing lineups in NBA history if that trio gets together. I see Tracy's scoring dipping along with Kobe's, but I think Tracy's rebounding and assist numbers would go up. It would be more of a three headed monster than a clearly defined Option 1, Option 2, Option 3 lineup.

[JBH3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bornindamecca

I'll try to keep this short. Re: Mac v. Wade (social studies kids see the joke in that, ) Mac is not a better shooter, he is a better 3pt shooter. Wade is far superior in midrange and from the stripe. Far superior. I'm not going to argue the court vision, but I disagree and we can leave it at that to keep this from going off of the rails. My argument does partially revolve around the idea that the straight up Mac for Odom trade wouldn't happen. So other pieces would be involved somehow. But besides that, there is also: -I don't see Mac coming off of the bench, which would change the Lakers drastically -If a 12-2 team is going to make a change, it should be to supplement their weaknesses. Scoring and passing are not the Lakers' weaknesses -For McGrady, I think he'd rather win as a leader before becoming Kobe's sidekick and perhaps a third option behind Pau.

This is about as perfect as it gets in terms of why this trade just doesn't make sense.

[Fiasco West]

Quote: Originally Posted by JBH3

Any attempt to prove otherwise is futile since you both seem to be homerized and slanted on McGrady being the perfect 'fit' in LA.

Actually, I came in here saying it was a bad idea. So i'm not slanted on anything. I don't think Tmac wants to win a ring as a glorified role player. I think he wants to win one as the guy not as one of the guys.

Yeah, just ignore the numbers man. You said and correct me if I musunderstood you, you were saying he wouldn't be a fit because he's too injury prone and Odom is more durable. That whole Tmac is weak and isn't tough enough to play through injuries is just false.

As I said....chemistry and only chemistry is the only way it doesn't work.

[Bornindamecca]

I just want to tack on something to get out of the back and forth here. My argument is not that Tracy isn't a very good player. There are a few teams that I think you can put him on and get an instant champ contender, if not a chip flat out. The Spurs, Suns, Mavs, Hornets and Jazz are all teams that I think could really benefit from his skillset, and really take a major leap forward in the Power Rankings.

[TMagic]

T-Mac >>> Wade, Kobe, LeBron

[Rocky]

I don't know that the Lakers beat the Celtics if T-Mac is playing for them. Do you let Kobe ease up off Pierce and focus on offense late in games? He's still going to have to chase Ray Allen around. That would leave T-Mac on Pierce....and I'm not sure on their history playing against one another, but I would rather have a bonafide defender in there on him. I don't think T-Mac is needed, just a tough defensive minded 3 and a gritty hustle guy to upgrade Turiaf.