Productive Outs?

[dieselboy]

Tigers on top...

[Blzer]

Was going to create a thread about this, until I saw this old thing. I was wondering why this isn't advertised at all? I think this is important, not just for individual players but also for teams. I think a lot of selfless #2 hitters would like to advertise how high their numbers rank up against the world, and where some of their outs go to better use for a ball club.

Anyway, I was going to name my statistic PRO (productive out percentage/average), but it looks like they already have POP here. Are any of the major websites able to sort these stats for players or teams somewhere?

Does anyone else think this stat is somewhat relevant?

[snepp]

Quote: Originally Posted by Blzer

I was wondering why this isn't advertised at all?

Because it's been shown to be crap and Olney's original article was almost universally panned as being a horrendous piece of "analysis."

Quote:

Does anyone else think this stat is somewhat relevant?

No.

[KMRblue1027]

Unless you only need one run to win the game there is no such thing as a productive out. Sacrificing a teams most precious resource for advancing a runner is about the stupidest move a manager can do.

[55]

Pretty much.

The only thing I don't like that Maddon does is overuse the sac-bunt.

[jth1331]

Quote: Originally Posted by KMRblue1027

Unless you only need one run to win the game there is no such thing as a productive out. Sacrificing a teams most precious resource for advancing a runner is about the stupidest move a manager can do.

Top of the 1st, leadoff man hits a double off of the other teams ace pitcher, who is absolutely dominating and tough to score a run off.
2nd batter hitter hits a ground ball to the 2nd baseman, the runner advances to 3rd.
#3 hitter hits a groundball to short, scoring the runner from 3rd.

Are you saying those aren't productive outs? I know what you are saying there. Now, sac bunting for a player other than the pitcher is stupid in my eyes, unless it is to get that tieing run or winning run closer.
What I find ridiculous to is when a manager pinch hits a position player for a pitcher...to bunt.

[djep]

With pitching being as prominent now as it is, runs are at an absolute premium. Obviously if you're a team that struggles to score runs and you're facing a top-notch pitcher you will need to push the action a bit more. As is the case with most baseball strategy it all depends on the situation, flow of the game, who the hitter is, etc.