Are Console Developers Doing Enough to Punish Cheaters?

rockchisler · 03-19-2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Diesel


	I dont understand the mentality of video game cheaters. What does it provide them? How exactly is it fun to cheat? It takes away the whole purpose of the game. 'Game' being the operative word here.

Low self esteem, they need to cheat to win because they are not very good so when they win, it to them makes them feel good. Perfect example Bernie Madoff had a interview last year and one of the questions was "How does it feel to be a Billionaire"? His response was "It feels really good" Come on you dork you bilked Millions upon millions from your investors, and your wife was the bookkeeper and she doesn't want her funds taken away? Please..Sorry off on a tangent.

tril · 03-20-2009, 04:55 AM

I never understand why folks cheat on a video game, especially when one can always continue playing if they lose.

But, I also fault the developers. The rules, point system, power-ups and player rankings in on-line games should be overhauled.

A system should be in place where everyone is neutral. This is where mastering a game comes in handy. 1on1, 5on5 should literally be like playing a game of chess or checkers. the only advantage comes from the gamers skill level, not because he assembled a team of all star players (Kobe,Lebron, etc), or gathered up the most power ups.

These sports titles already have the mechanics in place. running plays, signature shots, etc, should all be based on the users ability.

A war game should be about progressing through the game without power ups. Knowing how to use the virtual landscape and using the weapons should be the only advantage a gamer has.

long story short get rid of all the artificial bs in on-line games.

SmokeCapone · 03-20-2009, 02:30 PM

I have been an online gamer since its inception on PS2 with madden and has always felt that people who need to cheat do not need to be able to play online if it hurts them to lose. Its about competing with someone across the globe or states or just taking a load off by getting online with your FAVORITE team and trying to win a chess match like game with your opponent.

The problem is that gamers can just go and make a new profile at will if they want to and I believe that your profile should be your 1 and only and it should cost a hefty price to get a new one for situations like this. If devs and companies made your gamer tag like the "heart and soul" of that gamers online career then i think that it will deter the cheating online coupled with a decent used feedback system. For madden and other sports games, players should be mandated to play devs or the mods that are out there monitoring cheaters just to see how well they seem to be at winning like they are.

The ranking system in madden is what draws cheaters the most online. With the ability to get the same amount of points for playing anyone is beyond retarded and should make it more challenging to level up in games like that. There is no way a level 22 should be ranked and leveld that high by playing level 1's all day every day. People that exploit flaws in the game like the FB dive by manually putting there RB in at FB deserve to be banned as well. We need to get the point across that these guys are wasting the time or what little time others have who just play to relax and chill from a long days work or whatever and not to sit there for half an hour to an hour to humiliated by a guy who finds it funny to cheat people so he could look like he's the man online.

Punish these fools I say and make it harder for them to come back and ruin people time and fun.

Ruffy · 03-20-2009, 05:34 PM

Good write-up!

I really agree with the poster that making extra names should be detered. Each Ps3 should have a limited number of names you can make for it.

Anyy ban should be tied to the console and not just a user name.

Greater mod control in online games.....the messages punks send me on the PSN network is laughable.....in fact im going to start a blog where I post them after taking a photo of them to post.

I have no problem losing 100 games in a row as long is the game is played fair....money goals, and plays makes some games unplayable online.

More sports games need to follow the Shows lead with moderation, updates and player banning. Its by no means perfect but when most games push online play as a huge selling feature...it needs to be supported!

wEEman33 · 03-20-2009, 06:05 PM

abiner:

I'm not sure that I'd put NHL '09 rank-exploits in the same category as the type of cheating that was going on before the second patch (players juicing their players up with 99 ratings).

To me, it's one thing to try to cheat a rankings system (and let's be honest, has any sports game ever had a ranking system that couldn't be exploited?), but it's on a whole 'nother level when you're exploits are giving you a distinct, competitive advantage on the court as a result of glitches in the game.

In a perfect world, both types of cheating would be policed, but for now, I think that policing the cheats that directly affect the competitive balance in gameplay should be given more attention than trying to police these games' imperfect ranking systems.

All Day CP3 · 03-20-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockchisler


	Low self esteem, they need to cheat to win because they are not very good so when they win, it to them makes them feel good. Perfect example Bernie Madoff had a interview last year and one of the questions was "How does it feel to be a Billionaire"? His response was "It feels really good" Come on you dork you bilked Millions upon millions from your investors, and your wife was the bookkeeper and she doesn't want her funds taken away? Please..Sorry off on a tangent.

The reason they cheat to win is because of the grand prize at the end of the road. Look at Madden for instance. A $50k grand prize to the winner of the Madden Challenge. This is why there are a very high amount of cheaters. If there is money involved, there's cheaters involved.

All Day CP3 · 03-20-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tril


	I never understand why folks cheat on a video game, especially when one can always continue playing if they lose. But, I also fault the developers. The rules, point system, power-ups and player rankings in on-line games should be overhauled. A system should be in place where everyone is neutral. This is where mastering a game comes in handy. 1on1, 5on5 should literally be like playing a game of chess or checkers. the only advantage comes from the gamers skill level, not because he assembled a team of all star players (Kobe,Lebron, etc), or gathered up the most power ups. These sports titles already have the mechanics in place. running plays, signature shots, etc, should all be based on the users ability. A war game should be about progressing through the game without power ups. Knowing how to use the virtual landscape and using the weapons should be the only advantage a gamer has. long story short get rid of all the artificial bs in on-line games.

The way the rankings are set up online is horrible. For instance, the more you play online in Madden (and win), you'll easily be able to sit on top. But for those that don't play as much basically have no chance what-so-ever to get to the top. They need to make the ranking system online more of a ladder for sports games. Where if you beat the #1 seed and you're #10, you move up half the distance or 25% of the distance to that spot. Somewhere they have to make these rankings open to people who have time and people who don't have time, so everyone can enjoy the rankings.

seriousluboy83 · 03-22-2009, 07:29 PM

hell no they dont do enough especially EA

SmokeCapone · 03-22-2009, 07:39 PM

Have some real mods online for all EA games and quit jerking us around!! I pay $60 for annual roster updates that can be sent in patches like they have been doing. I'm tired of getting punished by others because I exploit there DEFENSE rather than exploit the PROGRAMMING of the game.

When people pause at the begginging of the game now I know that 9-10 times they are putting their RB at FB and run FB dives because they dont know how to play the game or progress the way others do. It hurts to be winning and all of a sudden your opponent quits mid game and I get left with options. Why am I left with options when 2k has been awarding the right people with wins and losses when stuff like that happens.

EA to me is just to far behind, I mean we still have canned animations and 2 player gang tackling along with invincible QB who can get 5yds or more on sneaks without batting an eye or even suffering from the licking he should have taking from such a play. I even gotten beat by a guy who threw the same play all gm topped with a FB dive for those short ydg situations and yet for the life of me I couldnt stop his passes that looked like they should have been caught out of bounds but his WR managed to catch it in bounds and make plays. Thats the type of crap that needs to be banned and then to get a message of "learn how to stop it" is just the stake thru the heart.

F1N1SH1M · 03-23-2009, 04:51 PM

In the case of MLB 09 they are not doing a good job of slamming the door on cheating. This is a link to the game history of the number 1 ranked player. [http://mlb09ps3html-prod.sc.online.scea.com/MLB09/game/game_player_results_web.php?AccountName=tinour2muc h] If you notice his game playing time vs. his opponents its 1 inning and done for most of his games. A great majority of the players in the top 100 share these types of games because they are creating zombie accounts and giving free wins to their fellow cheater punks.

What is the purpose of creating these web sites to track online leaders and statistics if you let the cheating run rampant? The game has been out for 3 weeks and it is painfully obvious who the cheaters are if you check out the leaderboard and access the last page of zombie accounts. Input those accounts into the game history section, look at their common opponents and bingo you have most of your culprits. How much time and effort does it take to carry out this process and then proceed in freezing the accounts of these losers? Are they operating on FBI criminal investigation time or what?

I agree Madden is a joke and after last years debacle I wont even bother purchasing it next year. I dont understand how you could even have a national tournament based on that game. I watched a final on ESPN that took place in some resort town that featured two schmucks playing each other using the same team, the Cowboys. That game has turned into a disgrace and an embarrasment to sim sport gamers.

If MLB the Show could figure out a way to clamp down on these cheaters they would be able to garner more revenue by creating tournaments themselves. Hitting vs pitching is all it would come down to unlike in Madden that has teams filled with All-Pros (Cowboys) that cant be stopped unless Billy from the LD class is using them vs Dr. Madden Exploit who has the Lions.

Baseball is such a beautiful game that has had very minimal changes since its introduction to society. I love how Steve Stone (our new White Sox TV color analyst alongside Ken "Hawk" Harrelson) breaks down pitching to its simplicity. For example he has often mentioned the best way, that has not changed since baseballs inception, to get hitters out is high and tight or low and away no matter the hitter. Harrelson also talks about hitters "expanding their zone" or "zeroing in on a location". Im sure other announcers you all have listened to speak about these exact topics. Now to get back to my point, if you apply just those two simple concepts regarding hitters and pitchers and field the ball every player has a chance no matter the matchup. All you need is some pretty good hand eye coordination. Now if you are playing against a person with similar or greater skill than you in those areas I wouldnt recommend using the Orioles if they have the Red Sox.

In a tournament atmosphere one of the few things that could be counted as an exploit that would have to be eliminated is speed pitching (not giving the batter a sufficient amount of time to prepare for the next pitch) because that heavily favors the pitcher especially if they are using a pitcher who throws very hard. Two televisions or monitors back-to-back would take care of opponents seeing pitch location. Other than that there may be a thing here or there I may be missing but I can see a show tournament surpassing madden even though you dont have the XBOX community although reading some responses to an article written on this site regarding titles that sell consoles that may not be a problem. Until then I will continue to enjoy The Show 09 playing against my buddies and some of the relatively few sim players online along with the RTTS and Franchise mode.

03-20-2009, 06:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
wEEman33 MVP OVR: 26 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,028	abiner: I'm not sure that I'd put NHL '09 rank-exploits in the same category as the type of cheating that was going on before the second patch (players juicing their players up with 99 ratings). To me, it's one thing to try to cheat a rankings system (and let's be honest, has any sports game ever had a ranking system that couldn't be exploited?), but it's on a whole 'nother level when you're exploits are giving you a distinct, competitive advantage on the court as a result of glitches in the game. In a perfect world, both types of cheating would be policed, but for now, I think that policing the cheats that directly affect the competitive balance in gameplay should be given more attention than trying to police these games' imperfect ranking systems. Last edited by wEEman33; 03-20-2009 at 06:10 PM.

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03-20-2009, 04:55 AM	#12 (permalink)
tril Rookie OVR: 10 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 435	I never understand why folks cheat on a video game, especially when one can always continue playing if they lose. But, I also fault the developers. The rules, point system, power-ups and player rankings in on-line games should be overhauled. A system should be in place where everyone is neutral. This is where mastering a game comes in handy. 1on1, 5on5 should literally be like playing a game of chess or checkers. the only advantage comes from the gamers skill level, not because he assembled a team of all star players (Kobe,Lebron, etc), or gathered up the most power ups. These sports titles already have the mechanics in place. running plays, signature shots, etc, should all be based on the users ability. A war game should be about progressing through the game without power ups. Knowing how to use the virtual landscape and using the weapons should be the only advantage a gamer has. long story short get rid of all the artificial bs in on-line games.

03-20-2009, 02:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
SmokeCapone Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 146	I have been an online gamer since its inception on PS2 with madden and has always felt that people who need to cheat do not need to be able to play online if it hurts them to lose. Its about competing with someone across the globe or states or just taking a load off by getting online with your FAVORITE team and trying to win a chess match like game with your opponent. The problem is that gamers can just go and make a new profile at will if they want to and I believe that your profile should be your 1 and only and it should cost a hefty price to get a new one for situations like this. If devs and companies made your gamer tag like the "heart and soul" of that gamers online career then i think that it will deter the cheating online coupled with a decent used feedback system. For madden and other sports games, players should be mandated to play devs or the mods that are out there monitoring cheaters just to see how well they seem to be at winning like they are. The ranking system in madden is what draws cheaters the most online. With the ability to get the same amount of points for playing anyone is beyond retarded and should make it more challenging to level up in games like that. There is no way a level 22 should be ranked and leveld that high by playing level 1's all day every day. People that exploit flaws in the game like the FB dive by manually putting there RB in at FB deserve to be banned as well. We need to get the point across that these guys are wasting the time or what little time others have who just play to relax and chill from a long days work or whatever and not to sit there for half an hour to an hour to humiliated by a guy who finds it funny to cheat people so he could look like he's the man online. Punish these fools I say and make it harder for them to come back and ruin people time and fun.

03-20-2009, 05:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ruffy Banned OVR: 31 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,390	Good write-up! I really agree with the poster that making extra names should be detered. Each Ps3 should have a limited number of names you can make for it. Anyy ban should be tied to the console and not just a user name. Greater mod control in online games.....the messages punks send me on the PSN network is laughable.....in fact im going to start a blog where I post them after taking a photo of them to post. I have no problem losing 100 games in a row as long is the game is played fair....money goals, and plays makes some games unplayable online. More sports games need to follow the Shows lead with moderation, updates and player banning. Its by no means perfect but when most games push online play as a huge selling feature...it needs to be supported!

03-22-2009, 07:29 PM	#18 (permalink)
seriousluboy83 Rookie OVR: 16 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Athens Of Florida Posts: 447	hell no they dont do enough especially EA

03-22-2009, 07:39 PM	#19 (permalink)
SmokeCapone Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 146	Have some real mods online for all EA games and quit jerking us around!! I pay $60 for annual roster updates that can be sent in patches like they have been doing. I'm tired of getting punished by others because I exploit there DEFENSE rather than exploit the PROGRAMMING of the game. When people pause at the begginging of the game now I know that 9-10 times they are putting their RB at FB and run FB dives because they dont know how to play the game or progress the way others do. It hurts to be winning and all of a sudden your opponent quits mid game and I get left with options. Why am I left with options when 2k has been awarding the right people with wins and losses when stuff like that happens. EA to me is just to far behind, I mean we still have canned animations and 2 player gang tackling along with invincible QB who can get 5yds or more on sneaks without batting an eye or even suffering from the licking he should have taking from such a play. I even gotten beat by a guy who threw the same play all gm topped with a FB dive for those short ydg situations and yet for the life of me I couldnt stop his passes that looked like they should have been caught out of bounds but his WR managed to catch it in bounds and make plays. Thats the type of crap that needs to be banned and then to get a message of "learn how to stop it" is just the stake thru the heart.

03-23-2009, 04:51 PM	#20 (permalink)
F1N1SH1M Rookie OVR: 3 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 5	In the case of MLB 09 they are not doing a good job of slamming the door on cheating. This is a link to the game history of the number 1 ranked player. [http://mlb09ps3html-prod.sc.online.scea.com/MLB09/game/game_player_results_web.php?AccountName=tinour2muc h] If you notice his game playing time vs. his opponents its 1 inning and done for most of his games. A great majority of the players in the top 100 share these types of games because they are creating zombie accounts and giving free wins to their fellow cheater punks. What is the purpose of creating these web sites to track online leaders and statistics if you let the cheating run rampant? The game has been out for 3 weeks and it is painfully obvious who the cheaters are if you check out the leaderboard and access the last page of zombie accounts. Input those accounts into the game history section, look at their common opponents and bingo you have most of your culprits. How much time and effort does it take to carry out this process and then proceed in freezing the accounts of these losers? Are they operating on FBI criminal investigation time or what? I agree Madden is a joke and after last years debacle I wont even bother purchasing it next year. I dont understand how you could even have a national tournament based on that game. I watched a final on ESPN that took place in some resort town that featured two schmucks playing each other using the same team, the Cowboys. That game has turned into a disgrace and an embarrasment to sim sport gamers. If MLB the Show could figure out a way to clamp down on these cheaters they would be able to garner more revenue by creating tournaments themselves. Hitting vs pitching is all it would come down to unlike in Madden that has teams filled with All-Pros (Cowboys) that cant be stopped unless Billy from the LD class is using them vs Dr. Madden Exploit who has the Lions. Baseball is such a beautiful game that has had very minimal changes since its introduction to society. I love how Steve Stone (our new White Sox TV color analyst alongside Ken "Hawk" Harrelson) breaks down pitching to its simplicity. For example he has often mentioned the best way, that has not changed since baseballs inception, to get hitters out is high and tight or low and away no matter the hitter. Harrelson also talks about hitters "expanding their zone" or "zeroing in on a location". Im sure other announcers you all have listened to speak about these exact topics. Now to get back to my point, if you apply just those two simple concepts regarding hitters and pitchers and field the ball every player has a chance no matter the matchup. All you need is some pretty good hand eye coordination. Now if you are playing against a person with similar or greater skill than you in those areas I wouldnt recommend using the Orioles if they have the Red Sox. In a tournament atmosphere one of the few things that could be counted as an exploit that would have to be eliminated is speed pitching (not giving the batter a sufficient amount of time to prepare for the next pitch) because that heavily favors the pitcher especially if they are using a pitcher who throws very hard. Two televisions or monitors back-to-back would take care of opponents seeing pitch location. Other than that there may be a thing here or there I may be missing but I can see a show tournament surpassing madden even though you dont have the XBOX community although reading some responses to an article written on this site regarding titles that sell consoles that may not be a problem. Until then I will continue to enjoy The Show 09 playing against my buddies and some of the relatively few sim players online along with the RTTS and Franchise mode.