Cheese vs 'Whine'

[tshokunbi]

I apologize if this post is inappropriate, but I am not sure what cheese is. I am a below average skill player, and I enjoy using ask coach option, even when playing vs another human. The most I do as far as adjustments both offensive or defensive, is I will use the shift D line command, shift linebackers command, back up DBs and when Im using cover 2 ZONE, I like to play bump and run. I played a fellow OS'er today online and he quit in the fourth quarter with no explanation and removed me from his friends list.

The point is, what exactly is cheese? My understanding was exploiting known glitches or bugs in the game to your advantage. When does this he's a cheeser complaint turn into just being a sore loser, and negatively branding your opponent in the process?

It would be awesome if we could have a thread dedicated to a consensus of what the community defines as cheese. I've been on this forum for a long time, back to the maddenmania/digitalsportsmania days before they merged, and I have never seen a community consensus on what defines cheese. Is it too subjective to define, or am I just not looking in the right place?

Any help will be much appreciated.

[rjsuperfly66]

To me, cheese has always been a form of abusing game bugs or simply the overuse of "money plays."

For instance, I find the constant use of curls and slants in this game as "money plays." 1 defense can usually stop 1, but I haven't really found one that stops both. If you keep audibling/hot routing and running both, I find it not fun and nearly impossible to stop. And its not necessarily because I'm bad, but because the CPU simply gets torched by them. They don't adjust and don't know how to defend. And I can't user defend every player on the field.

To me, that would be as simple way as possible of defining "cheese."

[Haze88]

As far as I can tell cheese tends to be anything that can not be easily stopped without football knowledge. I know there are glitches but a lot of times it is simply if enough people can't stop a certain play or aspect quick enough it is just labeled cheese, case closed.

[GoDucks1224]

The only things I consider cheese are when you deliberately exploit the bad AI programming in the game. That's it. Money plays? Meh. You can find a way to shut them down. I feel that nothing is really a 'money play'. Curls and slants may abuse the AI a bit but with some adjustments and user control you can limit them. It's just things like nano blitzes which abuse the blocking logic, and throwing four verts all I game that I consider cheese and bull****. They're taking advantage of bad AI defensive logic.

[dingleberryfinn]

What's cheese one day, may not be the next.
When a bug/glitch/money play is fixed but someone still tries to make it work,
I don't consider that cheese.

Someone goes for a first down every time on fourth, I no longer consider that cheese, though I once did.

Someone kicks onside kicks every kickoff, I no longer consider that cheese,
though I once did.

[PowerofRed25]

Quote: Originally Posted by dingleberryfinn

What's cheese one day, may not be the next. When a bug/glitch/money play is fixed but someone still tries to make it work, I don't consider that cheese. Someone goes for a first down every time on fourth, I no longer consider that cheese, though I once did. Someone kicks onside kicks every kickoff, I no longer consider that cheese, though I once did.

I do consider kicking squib kicks every kickoff to be cheese though, the way loose ball logic is in the game. Too easy to either recover it as the kicking team or force the returner to dive on it and end up with awful field position.

That's probably the big one for online play I've been seeing this year. Everything else is fairly manageable.

[tshokunbi]

This is a perfect example. This thread alone has had 6 posts and every one has a different idea of what is and isnt cheese. There should be some kind of 'OS Manifesto' on what a consensus for what cheese is and isnt. Believe it or not, most OSers arent even sure what some consider cheese. Please continue to post your ideas of what is and isnt cheese in this thread, and maybe we can get a consensus going.

[Wilson16NCSU]

Cheese is just exploiting the bad AI areas that are basically unstoppable even with human interference. There seems to be away to do squib kicks this year and basically recover it every time. i've had that happen to me once or twice though and I've played over 100 games. The main things that I have faced that I consider cheese is the LB Shake (or Shift) Blitz that is a glitch. I don't have problems with nano blitzing though as long as it is done in restraint, I have a problem with it when that is basically all they do. Again these things CAN be beaten sometimes, but for people looking to play a sim game, this is not what you're looking for.

So basically someone taking advantage of poor AI where the intervening of human play can't even stop it.

[thelasthurtknee]

Quote: Originally Posted by dingleberryfinn

What's cheese one day, may not be the next. When a bug/glitch/money play is fixed but someone still tries to make it work, I don't consider that cheese. Someone goes for a first down every time on fourth, I no longer consider that cheese, though I once did. Someone kicks onside kicks every kickoff, I no longer consider that cheese, though I once did.

and thats why your a dingleberry

[fistofrage]

Cheese is using anything that works too well do to a bug, glitch, or bad programming.

For example, running 4 verticals is cheese because it has a better success rate than it should.

But even in theory a Halfback ISO play could be cheese if there was a problem with the programming on that play and the defensive players froze on that particular play.

You'll know it when you see it. If you are calling plays that work too well and your opponent can't stop it even though he's calling the appropriate plays to stop it, its cheese.

If a Dime defensive formation blows up the running game for some reason, its cheese. Because you shouldn't be calling Dime to stop the run.

The list of cheese is going to be a mile long and vary from player to player, but thats why I don't play online because everyone's definition of Sim and cheese will be different.

I'll leave it at this....If you are trying to win at all costs, you are cheesing whether you know it or not.