Open question~ PATCH PHILOSOPHY

[Adam_Thompson_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by doctorhay53

To be slightly annoying, there could be a bug that is causing the pass rush to not be as effective as the developers wanted But honestly, you explained it perfectly.

Yep, that could happen. Or it could be a limitation in the system. It could be a lot of things, but it really comes down to tuning. The pass rush works as intended. I know some people think it is fine and others think it is completely wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's how subjectivity works.

[Happyvally74]

Quote: Originally Posted by Adam_Thompson_EA

Yep, that could happen. Or it could be a limitation in the system. It could be a lot of things, but it really comes down to tuning. The pass rush works as intended. I know some people think it is fine and others think it is completely wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's how subjectivity works.

Very few people.

[doctorhay53]

Quote: Originally Posted by Adam_Thompson_EA

Yep, that could happen. Or it could be a limitation in the system. It could be a lot of things, but it really comes down to tuning. The pass rush works as intended. I know some people think it is fine and others think it is completely wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's how subjectivity works.

You opened this door......

I don't remember seeing any posts claiming that the pass rush is fine, ever since '09 came out. In fact this is one of the biggest issues in gameplay for NCAA right now, and it is purely evident in NCAA '09 and in the demo for '10. Here is my point: If it is simply a tuning problem and it really works as intended, then honestly what the heck are the gameplay guys thinking!!?!?!?! This was such a HUGE issue for most people around here last year that every other day there was a post from someone new saying 'how the heck do I get a pass rush out of my CPU controlled defenders?' This is why people are upset about the pass rush....it was horrible last year, in almost universal agreement, and it doesn't appear to be any better this year. If it's working as intended, then why were our cries so completely ignored (and we certainly were not shy about the issues with the pass rush)?

You probably shouldn't respond because I know what the answer will be, but it just won't be acceptable to most people. It's not up to you, and you have a responsibility and desire to defend the hard work the development team has put in. I just want you to understand what is so maddeningly frustrating about what you said from a hardcore NCAA'ers point of view.

My first two games of the demo the CPU was a combined 20-21 with no sacks and only a couple of pressures, on Heisman.

I agree totally that everyone is entitled to their opinion. But right now there seems to be a huge disconnect between our opinion as avid fans of the series and the gameplay team's opinion. Its either that or a limitation of the system that simply doesn't allow the CPU controlled defenders to effectively rush the passer. Don't try to make it seem like there is huge dissent among gamers about the quality of the pass rush....the only differing opinions appears to be us vs developers. We think it's wrong and totally unacceptable, at an almost unanimous level. I could start a poll if you want but it would kind of be forum-spam.

[mattbooty]

Quote: Originally Posted by Happyvally74

Very few people.

Agreed. I'm holding out some (small) hope that fixed sliders will improve this. That will be the deciding factor on whether I buy or not.

[mattbooty]

Quote: Originally Posted by doctorhay53

You opened this door...... I don't remember seeing any posts claiming that the pass rush is fine, ever since '09 came out. In fact this is one of the biggest issues in gameplay for NCAA right now, and it is purely evident in NCAA '09 and in the demo for '10. Here is my point: If it is simply a tuning problem and it really works as intended, then honestly what the heck are the gameplay guys thinking!!?!?!?! This was such a HUGE issue for most people around here last year that every other day there was a post from someone new saying 'how the heck do I get a pass rush out of my CPU controlled defenders?' This is why people are upset about the pass rush....it was horrible last year, in almost universal agreement, and it doesn't appear to be any better this year. If it's working as intended, then why were our cries so completely ignored (and we certainly were not shy about the issues with the pass rush)?

Further tuning of the pass rush should have been a priority this year. I again hope the (fixed) sliders are effective enough to make it more realistic. If not this really should be a priority for next year.

[hcopenhagenh]

Quote: Originally Posted by mattbooty

But this is the first time you've clarified that the impact of the bugs make a difference. Previously you've held to your line that 1 bug of any kind and in your world the software can't be sold. Once you open it up to how much that bug affects the game/software/etc, now we are back in subjective land. Your opinion of how badly it affects gameplay will be different from someone elses, that is why it is an opinion. And once again we are straying back into the discussion of what is a bug and what is not. Now we are back talking about features that aren't done the way YOU would want them done. That is not a bug. A bug is the sliders not affecting gameplay at all when they should. If you hiked the ball and the OL and DL stopped moving, THAT is a bug. There is a pass rush, it is not as effective as many of us would like it to be. That is not a bug. I would love for NCAA to be 100% photo-realistic. It is not. That does not mean the graphics are full of bugs.

So then if it isn't a bug the the OL/DL is broken. I don't care how you look at it. It is a matter of semantics.

I can't wait until there are laws governing the sale of software. If I open the package and don't like the game I should be able to take it back. If a company truly stood by their game then they would do this.

In my eyes the game was broken. It didn't do what EA advertises it to do which is resemble NCAA college football. If they advertised College Football for the Mentally Challenged then I can understand the game. The DL was definitely mentally challenged along with several glaring AI issues.

All I know is... my money won't be going to EA this year.

[mattbooty]

Quote: Originally Posted by hcopenhagenh

So then if it isn't a bug the the OL/DL is broken. I don't care how you look at it. It is a matter of semantics. I can't wait until there are laws governing the sale of software. If I open the package and don't like the game I should be able to take it back. If a company truly stood by their game then they would do this. In my eyes the game was broken. It didn't do what EA advertises it to do which is resemble NCAA college football. If they advertised College Football for the Mentally Challenged then I can understand the game. The DL was definitely mentally challenged along with several glaring AI issues. All I know is... my money won't be going to EA this year.

I'm in no way trying to change your opinion on how you like the game or whether you should buy.

In a perfect world I absolutely agree software should be returnable like everything else. The problem is (to use your earlier analogy) if you go buy a transformer there is no way for you to go home duplicate that transformer exactly, then return it claiming it is broken to get your money back. Unfortunately this is a very real problem with software and is what brought about these laws. Many years ago you COULD return software, until this became prevalent. I guarantee that if someone found a way to duplicate that transformer and it was readily available to the masses, within a year hasbro would be forbidding returns of transformers as well. As long as this is possible there will NEVER be any law in the US forcing a return policy on software.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by doctorhay53

You opened this door...... I agree totally that everyone is entitled to their opinion. But right now there seems to be a huge disconnect between our opinion as avid fans of the series and the gameplay team's opinion. Its either that or a limitation of the system that simply doesn't allow the CPU controlled defenders to effectively rush the passer. Don't try to make it seem like there is huge dissent among gamers about the quality of the pass rush....the only differing opinions appears to be us vs developers. We think it's wrong and totally unacceptable, at an almost unanimous level. I could start a poll if you want but it would kind of be forum-spam.

This is what makes the slider mishap such a catastrophically bad error. Although I vehemently disagree with it, I could live with the design decision to make the default pass rush ultra friendly to the casual, "high scoring games rule" crowd, if they gave us extremely effective tools which would allow us to do our own tuning to make things more realistically challenging.

The Coup de Grace will be if they once again choose to limit the effectiveness of the sliders, well then I'd have to reluctantly agree with the legion of naysayers and take a pejorative stance toward this development team and their believe in what makes a good football game.

[doctorhay53]

Quote: Originally Posted by hcopenhagenh

So then if it isn't a bug the the OL/DL is broken. I don't care how you look at it. It is a matter of semantics. I can't wait until there are laws governing the sale of software. If I open the package and don't like the game I should be able to take it back. If a company truly stood by their game then they would do this. In my eyes the game was broken. It didn't do what EA advertises it to do which is resemble NCAA college football. If they advertised College Football for the Mentally Challenged then I can understand the game. The DL was definitely mentally challenged along with several glaring AI issues. All I know is... my money won't be going to EA this year.

For the record I don't agree with your logic either. Not doing what it is advertised to do (a huge stretch on your part to say it doesn't resemble college football) still doesn't make it broken. Just say you don't like it....because 'broken' implies that something isn't working as it was intended to, such as the sliders. Unless there really is a problem with the pass rush CODE, then it is working the way it's supposed to and you don't LIKE it. It isn't broken, and it isn't semantics. The definition of broken is pretty clear.

[WatsonTiger]

I for one do not have a problem with the pass rush.

And Adam, thanks for answering this thread.